Simulated Drowning w/MrBallen

Summary

The Bonfire with Big Jay Oakerson & Robert Kelly

Episode: Simulated Drowning w/ MrBallen (John B. Allen)
Date: January 28, 2026
Guest: John B. Allen aka MrBallen
Host: SiriusXM Faction Talk

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Overview:

This episode features the master storyteller and Navy SEAL veteran John B. Allen, best known as "MrBallen," who joins comedians Big Jay Oakerson and Robert Kelly. The hosts dig into MrBallen’s journey from a self-professed Quincy “fuck up” to elite military service, then on to sensational viral storytelling. They explore his unique path, SEAL training horrors, the psychology of viral stories, and the mechanics of keeping millions transfixed—always laced with Bonfire’s signature raw, bantery humor.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Origin of the "MrBallen" Persona

• [02:06–04:15]
  • John explains the accidental origins of the “MrBallen” name. His original username "JohnBAllen416" was misread by aspiring Navy SEALs seeking advice. The prefix “Mr” stuck after repeated salutations in his inbox—so he adopted it.

    “I took it and ran with it.” — John B. Allen [04:15]

2. Quincy Roots & Boston Upbringing

• [04:15–08:02]
  • Anecdotes abound about fighting at local basketball courts, high school brawls, and the tough, “territorial” climate of Quincy and neighboring Boston towns.

    “We used to hang out at this place called the Mount...these kids from Dorchester, from DOT showed up...they jump out of a car with two by fours and they start beating kids up, like, completely arbitrarily…” — John [06:00]

  • John describes growing up as a habitual scrapper with little actual fighting skill, emphasizing the sometimes-brutal social environment that shaped him.

3. College Life, Chaos, and Failure

• [07:12–14:54]
  • John details his riotous first year at UMass Amherst, where he failed most classes (“1.016 GPA”), got over 30 write-ups, and participated in a campus riot after a football loss.

    “Reality is going to catch up, but I'm failing my classes and not going to classes, and I’m telling my family back home everything’s going great.” — John [07:39]

  • When police began identifying and expelling rioters, John preemptively withdrew from school before being pushed out.

4. Turning Point and Reckoning

• [14:54–17:24]
  • Living in his mom’s basement, John had his "reckoning," acknowledging self-sabotage and beginning genuine self-improvement:

    “I needed to like fail in a way that I orchestrated completely...when I go home...I did this. No one did this to me.” — John [14:46]

  • He rededicated himself, re-applied and excelled at UMass, met his wife, and found meaning in grinding toward goals.

5. Becoming a Navy SEAL: The Challenge and Mythos

• [17:56–25:12]
  • John’s interest in the military was sparked by family friends in SEAL Team 6, and he explains the difference between "regular" SEALs ("white side") and the mythic Team 6 ("dark side"):

    “Team six, it might as well be a different unit ... you have to be one of the best SEALs that exist. Then you go to their selection program...it’s infinitely harder.” — John [18:12]

  • He emphasizes the grueling marathon of training (“about two years to get your trident”) and the psychological demands.

6. SEAL Training’s Underwater Ordeal — Simulated Drowning

• [25:12–32:31]
  • John breaks down the harrowing “pool comp” test—the psychological centerpiece of SEAL training:

    “When you walk into...the combat training tank...it says, over the top...Water will make cowards of us all.” — John [25:47]

  • Underwater, instructors repeatedly sabotage trainees’ air, simulating emergencies:

    “You have to wait...they tie knots in your hoses...take your weight belt off...You can’t fight back.” — John [25:47]

  • The test culminates with “unrecoverable knots” requiring the trainee to breathe with water steadily leaking into his mouth for minutes on end:

    “You are hovering on the verge of passing out for the last six or seven minutes. And it’s simulated drowning...Can you stay calm when your body is signaling to you that you’re fucking drowning?” — John [32:27]

  • The hosts react in awe, comparing it (jokingly) to their own “hardships”:

    “I was a lifeguard in Malden High, so I relate to some of this.” — Jay [32:52]

7. Serving, Deployments, and Life After SEALs

• [33:27–36:35]
  • John served two tours, then left the SEALs via medical retirement, highlighting the brutal lifestyle of constant absence and repeated deployments:

    "Very few people actually consider what the lifestyle is going to be like in the SEAL teams and it’s fucking brutal.” — John [33:39]

  • He addresses the military’s efforts to retain trained SEALs, but explains that despite offers, many depart after their first tour.

8. From SEAL to Viral Storytelling

• [36:35–43:00]
  • Post-military, John co-founded the “Elite Meat” charity to help veterans network, but was drawn to social media as “the Wild West.”
  • Early content efforts faltered until his TikTok retelling of the Dyatlov Pass mystery went viral (5 million views in one day).
  • The hosts joke about his career path:

    “So how do you go from that type of lifestyle to hip hop dance?” — Jay (joking about abrupt changes) [35:46]

  • John explains his stories are crafted for engagement, often placing the audience in the perspective of victims.

9. The Psychology and Mechanics of Storytelling

• [43:00–44:49]
  • MrBallen’s collaborative process (notably with his Pulitzer Prize-winning sister, Evan):

    “It’s more like, what is the point of view that the audience will most react to? … putting the audience in the perspective of the victims.” — John [43:02]

  • Live shows are modeled after standup comedy, with the success “hinging purely on ability to speak and act on stage.”

10. Hosts on MrBallen’s Impact and Conclusion

• [44:49–46:11]
  • Both Jay and Bobby admit initially being skeptical, then getting utterly hooked after hearing MrBallen’s stories.

    “I can’t believe how engaged you got me...you really know how to pull people in and tell these stories that you didn’t even know happened.” — Jay [45:42]

  • They plug the MrBallen Podcast: Strange, Dark, and Mysterious Stories, urging listeners to check it out.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On growing up in Quincy:
  “I was involved in a lot of scuffles, many of which resulted in me getting my ass [kicked]...It was like tribal, territorial infighting.” — John [05:34]
• On the "riot" at UMass:
  “I think I’ve always been like an extreme opportunist in a way, for good and bad. If there’s something to do that’s a decent opportunity, I’m going for it. And it just felt like this is a once in a lifetime moment to be a [rioter].” — John [10:01]
• On SEAL training:
  “Everything is psychological torture...Water will make cowards of us all.” — John [25:47], [25:47]
• On storytelling:
  “What’s the point of view that the audience will most react to...putting the audience in the perspective of the victims.” — John [43:02]

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Key Timestamps (Content Only)

• [02:06] – MrBallen name origins and early internet persona
• [04:15] – Quincy upbringings and “fight” culture
• [07:39] – College failures and fake academic success
• [09:40–14:54] – Rioting, repercussions, and personal reckoning
• [16:08] – Decision to pursue the military and Navy SEAL aspirations
• [17:56] – Insights into SEAL teams “white side vs. dark side”
• [25:12–32:31] – SEAL pool training, simulated drowning in detail
• [33:37] – Military lifestyle and decision to leave the SEALs
• [36:35] – Transition to civilian life and foray into social media
• [39:09] – Viral breakthrough: Dyatlov Pass story on TikTok
• [41:33–43:02] – Danny LaPlante “living in the walls” story and approach to live storytelling
• [44:49] – Modeling live shows on standup and comedic rapport
• [45:41] – Jay’s testimonial about being “hooked” by MrBallen’s stories

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Conclusion

This riveting episode blends dark humor with raw honesty, offering deep dives into elite military culture, the psychology of hardship, true crime storytelling, and the unique power of oral narrative. MrBallen’s tales captivate, while Big Jay and Bobby keep the energy playful and irreverent. Whether you’re a long-time listener or a newcomer lured by the name “Simulated Drowning,” this episode is a masterclass in finding meaning—and internet stardom—through adversity, craft, and a little bit of chance.

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Check out:

• MrBallen Podcast: Strange, Dark & Mysterious Stories (SiriusXM, all major platforms)
• Big Jay Oakerson and Robert Kelly’s tour dates via their socials

For fans of: Raw humor, true crime, military tales, and unforgettable, wild-life transformations.

Transcript

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[Geico Commercial Narrator]

We've all been there. You hold on to a coupon, hoping to cash it in at the store, but then you forget about it and suddenly you've got a mountain of useless expired coupons.

[Coupon Holder / Listener]

Do you think this one's still good?

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

Free milk?

[Geico Commercial Narrator]

Oh, mate, that expired in 1993.

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

Dang it.

[Geico Commercial Narrator]

Fortunately, there are better ways to save money. Like by switching to Geico, you could save about $900 on car insurance without ever touching a coupon.

[Big Jokerson]

Ooh, how about this one?

[Coupon Holder / Listener]

Half off floppy disks.

[Geico Commercial Narrator]

Now you should try a bit of spring cleaning.

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

It feels good to save big. It feels good to Geico. And now the bonfire with Big J Okerson and Robert Kelly.

[Big Jokerson]

What's up? We're back. We're back. Too late, Lou. You already pushed the button.

[Robert Kelly]

I thought he would cut you. Back off. I thought you cut it over.

[Big Jokerson]

We usually wait until Jay puts his headphones on before Lou turns the volume up.

[Robert Kelly]

I picked the right song on the song at the right time of the song.

[Big Jokerson]

I know you do. We're back. It's the bonfire, Big Jokerson and Robert Kelly. And we have a very special guest in here. Now you have two names, right?

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

Yep.

[Big Jokerson]

Your name of your podcast and your, your, your show, your hit show that's going on. And your real name is John B. Allen.

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

Yep.

[Big Jokerson]

But your show is called Mr. Ballin, right?

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

Ballin. Ballin. Yeah, I'd say technically.

[Quints / Babbel Commercial Narrator]

Why did you, why did you do that?

[Robert Kelly]

Hey, sorry about this, John. I'm gonna get it out of here, man. Thank you so much.

[Big Jokerson]

Hey, Jay, I'll see you later, buddy. Take care.

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

I.

[Big Jokerson]

You later. Enjoy Sue Costello. But you, you. But you know, why did, why did you change that? Why did you have to come up with another name? Why don't you just go by your name?

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

It was sort of by accident. Yeah, yeah. I, I originally my username on, on the Internet was John B. Allen 416 and it was just like my non public Persona, you know, username, but there was no punctuation in it. And this is also way before I started Telling stories online. This was just like, I had my private account. And one of the things that happens when you're a Navy seal, in particular when you're in Special Operations, is because I was. I guess no one really knows who I am unless you know who Mr. Ballin is. I was a former Navy SEAL or I am a former Navy seal. But when you get out of the military, aspiring Navy SEALs kind of know who's recently gotten out, and they want to contact you to ask for some information about, like, what can I expect? Because it's kind of a niche thing going through the training. I mean, there's lots of stuff written about it, but it's. It's, you know, it takes years. It's very difficult. And so the kids want, like, that ground truth, right? And so people respectfully began messaging me on Instagram to ask me for advice. And they'd say, Dear Mr. Ballin, I'm.

[Big Jokerson]

Wondering, those kids are those old guys.

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

I'm probably a mix, but it's because they looked at my username and it looks like John Ballin. And so I wasn't like, oh, boom, Now I'm gonna start a storytelling franchise and label it Mr. Ballin. It actually, when I first began telling stories, let's say successfully on the Internet, it actually was under the moniker John Ballin 416. But I. I forget what I did, but I got, like, briefly banned on TikTok in the very early days, I think nudity, it was like nudity.

[Big Jokerson]

Primarily just you and a gun.

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

It was like full frontal nudity. I couldn't believe they.

[Big Jokerson]

A necklace made of ears from Afghanistan.

[Robert Kelly]

What are they doing? Bobby, I'm pretty sure you told me this exact same life story about a guy named Mr. Ballin. Now that's what you called.

[Big Jokerson]

Yeah.

[Robert Kelly]

Strange.

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

So I got banned, but the band just seemed to drag. And I was like, wow, I want to keep doing stuff, keep growing my Persona. And so I was like, what other name can I use? I was like, oh, Mr. Ballin. Like, I'm not kidding. In my inbox, it was like, 50 messages from kids opening with, Dear Mr. Ballin, I have a question for you. So I just. I took it and ran with it.

[Big Jokerson]

Now you're from Quincy, Mass.

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

Yep. Quincy.

[Big Jokerson]

Dunkin Donuts was the first Dunkin Donuts.

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

Big time.

[Big Jokerson]

I'm from Medford, Mass. Medford.

[Quints / Babbel Commercial Narrator]

Medford.

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

Right. I can tell.

[Big Jokerson]

And how can you tell?

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

Your accent.

[Big Jokerson]

I'm sorry?

[Robert Kelly]

First Chipotle in Northeast.

[Big Jokerson]

Well, you don't. That's just blowing me away. You don't have. How did you get away with not getting the accent?

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

I don't know. I don't know.

[Big Jokerson]

You talk like this when you were a kid.

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

My sister's in the room. Is that. Is it fair that I've always sounded this way? Yeah. Neither of our parents have accents.

[Robert Kelly]

I was hoping she was gonna go, you fucking ain't right.

[Coupon Holder / Listener]

She does.

[Big Jokerson]

Yeah. You're a clock, sucker. We all got the accent.

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

Yeah, I just didn't have one. Yeah, no reason.

[Quints / Babbel Commercial Narrator]

From Quincy, too?

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

Yeah, born and raised.

[Quints / Babbel Commercial Narrator]

Do you know Ricky Buccini?

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

No.

[Quints / Babbel Commercial Narrator]

I'm kidding.

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

Sounds like a Quincy name.

[Big Jokerson]

No, he's from. My friend called Quincy. But you're up grooming. Groom up.

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

Up my grooming.

[Big Jokerson]

Sorry, I'm getting nervous. Cause Jay. If you look at Jay's face right now, he's just staring at me to make mistakes.

[Robert Kelly]

I was smiling, looking pleasantly. Upbringing at Mr. Ballin. And then you went to groom.

[Big Jokerson]

Dude, whatever. I heard it both ways. But your upbringing was similar to mine where you just fought all the time.

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

Yeah. Not well, though.

[Big Jokerson]

No, I didn't either.

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

Yeah, no. I was involved in a lot of scuffles, many of which resulted in me getting my ass. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was like. I remember there was this, like. We used to hang out at this place called the Mount. And it was just like this. This basketball court, like in the middle in the heart of Quincy in Wallaston, if we're being specific. We used to have like a hand signal for Wallaston. You know, I do that for Wahlbergs.

[Robert Kelly]

For the Wahlberg.

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

And I remember, like, we were there and, like, cars pulled into the driveway in the parking lot next to us. It's like we're like in high school and these kids from. From Dorchester, from DOT showed up.

[Robert Kelly]

Dot New kids on the block.

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

And they had a.

[Big Jokerson]

And you had a dance off.

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

We had a dance off. And I still living it down to this day. No, they came in and they. They jump out of a car with two by fours and they start beating kids up, like, completely arbitrarily and like. Oh, yeah, that's what happens. Yeah, this is like tribal, you know, it's like territorial infighting. I grew up around stuff like that and it was like, oh, that's normal. Well, yeah.

[Robert Kelly]

Horrible weapon, two by four. You can't get any torque on it with your grip. It's like trying to hit somebody with a long VHS tape.

[Big Jokerson]

Yeah, but getting hit with it sucks. If you do connect, it works.

[Robert Kelly]

You getting hit with a piece of wood, for sure. But, I mean, I'd rather get hit with that than a broomstick.

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

Yeah, broomstick would hurt.

[Robert Kelly]

Broomstick would be worse.

[Big Jokerson]

I used to use a hose.

[Robert Kelly]

What?

[Big Jokerson]

I used. Yeah, I used to use a. I used to go and cut somebody's garden hose.

[Robert Kelly]

Oh, I think you're gonna tell a story about when you used to get black people out of town with the hose back in the Dorchester.

[Big Jokerson]

That was in the 60s.

[Robert Kelly]

Medford.

[Big Jokerson]

That was south. That was South Boston. But you grew up and then you. You were kind of up for a long time.

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

Yeah.

[Big Jokerson]

And your family, your sister, your mom, dad, weren't. They were like.

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

Yeah.

[Big Jokerson]

Very educated, very intelligent. And not to say you weren't, but you were a typical boss.

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

Yeah.

[Big Jokerson]

You're a typical Quincy kid. Just getting in trouble and getting up and. And you went to college and you.

[Robert Kelly]

You.

[Big Jokerson]

You went to Zoomas. You went to Zoomas when it was Zoom.

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

When there was rioting.

[Big Jokerson]

Yeah.

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

And I was heavily involved.

[Robert Kelly]

What were they riding for?

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

So I. So in 2006, I go to UMass my first semester, and it's funny, I was telling my. My family, my. My very academically successful and very smart family that I'm getting, like, all A's and I'm not attending class. Like, eventually reality is going to catch up, but I'm failing my classes and not going to classes, and I'm telling my family back home everything's going great. Right.

[Robert Kelly]

Are you partying and stuff? Is that what it is?

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

But, like, stupidly so, I wasn't going to, like, good parties. I was just, like, causing a ruckus on my floor in the dorm and, like, getting noise complaints because I was, like, playing my PlayStation too loud while I was like, you know, smoking weed and just being a college kid. Uh, and so. But at. Towards the end of that first semester, our football team, which was, to be clear, no one. No one cared about our football team. No offense to the. I'm sure their team is very good now. But in 2006.

[Big Jokerson]

No, that's still true.

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

In 2006, students at the campus didn't really care how the football team performed. But that semester, our football team did really, really well. And they got to the championship game. Again, no one even really knew until the night. It was. Oh, like they're. They're in the championship. Wow. And it was out in New York. It was at Appalachia. Appalachia State again. So it's not even. Not even home. And it was aired on these. The. The UMass channel, like the one channel that plays in all the dorm rooms. And so, like, people were sort of aware that this game was happening in New York somewhere, but no one really cared. But they lost. They just lost the game. And for whatever reason, like, everybody's like, let's fucking riot. Let's riot over this. And like all these people storm out of the dorms, me included, and we just start, like, breaking windows. And like the riot police show that they're. They're shooting the rubber bullets at the crowd. There's hundreds of us. I got shot so many times by rubber bullets that when I went back in, I'm sober, by the way, completely sober. My pockets had filled with rubber bullets just out of the probability that I'd been shot several times right here and here. Welted all over the place. Got. Got a T shirt around my head because the CS gas was getting in my eyes. It was just like chaos. But it was built for what gets.

[Robert Kelly]

You, like, into that. What makes you go with like, the guys, that mob mentality. Because, like, were you a person at that time? No matter what, were you the person? Like, late night be like having to smash the window out of this store or something? Or was that not your energy? I'm saying like, that just like the mass, like, looting. I'm trying to see if I can. I'm trying to get a think if I can get pulled into it. Like, it. Everything we're breaking up. A bunch of. That isn't ours.

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

I think I've. I think I've always been like an extreme opportunist in a way, for good and bad. If there's something to do that's a decent opportunity, I'm going for it. And it just felt like this is a once in a lifetime moment to be a writer.

[Big Jokerson]

You could be a riot rider with a bunch of other white kids over a football team you don't care about.

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

And I went. I remember like, as. As the night wore on. And like the riot police have shown up on their. Their horseback, shooting us with their bullets. Only, like the grittiest rioters stayed out. Like the. The sober ones are the ones who remain. And there's like a hundred of us by the end, I'm one of them. We got like our. Our thing on our head, blocking from the. The smoke that's everywhere.

[Robert Kelly]

We're getting, like, this is my heroin just taking bullets.

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

But I just. I thought it was so exhilarating.

[Big Jokerson]

But it is. It is kind of who. What you're about and what's in you. Because later on you wound up getting your Together?

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

Yeah.

[Big Jokerson]

Going back to college.

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

Yep.

[Big Jokerson]

Going back to that same school.

[Robert Kelly]

Wait, did you have.

[Coupon Holder / Listener]

Were you sober?

[Robert Kelly]

Were you sober that day or you gotten sober or. We just never.

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

I meant like in a literal sense. That particular day you were sober? Not under the influence when I decided to go riot. But more broadly, I was not sober. I'm sober now.

[Big Jokerson]

He grew up, like, Quincy.

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

For real? Yeah. We remember in growing up in Quincy there was this statistic that I don't know if this was actually real or not, but we held on to it like this really mattered. It's like me and my genius friends, we. We were told or we believed that we were number two in the country for underage drinking, second only to Compton. I don't even know what statistic they're referencing, but that was a good one.

[Robert Kelly]

Compton, they know no one's going to go in there and take the census. Let me go get the numbers on this.

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

For sure.

[Big Jokerson]

They just assumed.

[Robert Kelly]

Yeah, probably.

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

But yeah, no, actually I didn't get expelled, surprisingly, because I had my report card. I came back after that first semester and despite telling my family I was killing it all. A's, I had a 1.016 GPA, which is like three Fs and like two Ds. It's like terrible. In addition, I had over 30 write ups, all of which were sort of nuisance write ups in my dorm. Like noise complaints, you know, full frontal nudity, that kind of thing. Classic. And they, they have a process at a certain point when you've, when you've crossed a number of write ups, you're not allowed to live in the dorms, even if the write ups are sort of minor. And so I had crossed that threshold. And so at the end of the semester, I was banned from the dorms. I have a 1.016 GPA. My parents have just learned this. And on top of that, following that riot, after the football riot, there's riot cameras all over the campus because riots happen on this campus and like the rioting lights are on.

[Big Jokerson]

And this campus was known to be party city if you wanted to fuck off.

[Robert Kelly]

And UMass are big.

[Big Jokerson]

Yeah, we live Animal House.

[Robert Kelly]

You won basketball, right?

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

The hockey team's huge. The basketball was good at one.

[Big Jokerson]

This was known to. This is a party college.

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

I mean, it's called Zoo Mask, we'll call it. But after the riot, the way the, the campus handled it is they described screenshots from the riot and posted it on the UMass Police website. And it was like a witch hunt. It Was like, fill out a form and if you can identify anyone, you can do it anonymously. And it was like, all these people started getting expelled left and right. I am prominently displayed in these photos. And I'm like, oh, it's only a matter of time before you can take.

[Big Jokerson]

All the photos of you and make another photo of a guy. That's how many photos there were you.

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

So I had, I had. My dad came up to, to the school to like talk to the dean because I have all these competing really big issues. That school has not identified me yet, I think.

[Robert Kelly]

What was his reaction to you ride? Did he already know that you ride? He knew you were part of it.

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

I think by the time I confided in him in person when he came up, when he's learned that I've failed all my classes, basically I can't live in the dorms. They have to, they have to foot the bill for me to live off campus where I'm not going to be responsible. I clearly can't even do the academics. So he's like, what am I going to do? And also, I was in this riot, caused all this damage and it's only a matter of time before I got expelled. And so it was just sort of like, of course you were. And so I withdrew. Like, I chose to withdraw from the school instead of being expelled.

[Big Jokerson]

But in hindsight, it's cool that you were in a riot.

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

It was pretty good, you know, Pretty good, Pretty good. But then when I got home.

[Robert Kelly]

Would you have given up the riot for three more years of experience in college?

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

Honestly, dude, I think I sort of needed. Not the riot. The riot was not needed. I could have skipped the riot, but I needed to like fail in a way that I orchestrated completely. Like, it was everything that happened in that first semester between grades, you know, noise complaints and the rioting really, like, all orchestrated entirely by me. And so when I go home and I'm literally living in my mom's basement, you know, like the kind of stereotypical, stereotypical fuck up living in his mom's basement. I remember in like the first couple of days when I was home, I was like, oh, God damn, why'd my parents make me come home? But then I was like, I did this. No one did this to me.

[Robert Kelly]

That's what I was gonna almost ask. When you were younger, going through all this stuff and kind of being a fuck up, were you. Did your personality reflect? Like, you seem such a nice guy. Like, were you like an asshole of like a teenager, like late teens, Were you A guy that people would be like, that guy's kind of a dick or whatever.

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

If I'm being honest, I probably was. I probably was. The thing that I did is I sort of. I ran with a group of guys who, like, by every measure were like, very tough, gritty, like, loud. Yeah. But, like, could really hold their own.

[Big Jokerson]

Typical assholes.

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

Yeah, totally. And I was, like, friends with them and so sort of got it rubbed off onto me that I was considered sort of a tough guy. And I really wasn't. I mean, I had a big mouth, but I really couldn't back it up. And I got my ass kicked a bunch of times. But so I was more like. I was the guy who was more talk than anything else, which makes me totally a douchebag.

[Robert Kelly]

It's so funny where your life ended up, though.

[Coupon Holder / Listener]

Yeah.

[Robert Kelly]

You couldn't be more. You couldn't be more of a fake tough guy in this situation. I mean, it's impossible.

[Big Jokerson]

Well, you went.

[Robert Kelly]

You.

[Big Jokerson]

You didn't. You wanted to be a Navy seal. You sought it out big time. Like, you. You went into a, like a hut with a bunch of other Navy SEALs. And that was like your.

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

Yeah, you're.

[Big Jokerson]

You were like, I'm going to do this.

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

Yeah.

[Big Jokerson]

And you didn't tell anybody that either in your family.

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

I was sort of transparent about my desires. I mean, so the way it sort of worked out is I come home and I'm initially blaming my parents, but quickly realized, like, this is my own doing. It was probably the first, like, true, like, reckoning I've ever had in my life where I really felt like, oh, my God, like, I've done this and I need to fix it. And so for the next three semesters, I got a job at a gym. I rode my little ten speed Huffy to the gym in the morning and scanned people's cards in. And then I commuted into Boston to UMass Boston in an affiliate school. And I, you know, took school seriously. I got good grades. And then UMass Amherst has this automatic re acceptance policy for people who have withdrawn, even for rioters. I was not considered a rider, technically, and so they let me back in, but they knew that I was, like, sort of a bad guy.

[Big Jokerson]

It'd be funny if they still had your photos up. We're looking for you, like, wanted photos.

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

But I was allowed to go back and I, like, aced school. You know, I met my wife Amanda out at UMass when I went back. So it was a great, great win. But critically for me, what I sort of became really drawn to is the. The. The grind of, like, having a goal and working towards it. And I'm not about to get into some motivational thing. It's just I discovered in myself that.

[Big Jokerson]

Are you looking at our bodies? Whatever speech you're going to give away. Yeah, give it to Jake.

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

Yeah. No, but, like, when I got. When I realized I was the architect of my own disaster, what happened was I said, I'm going to. I'm going to go to school again, and I'm going to get good grades. That's like, step one. And I don't. I don't know what I'm going to do, be beyond school, but I'm just going to show everybody that I'm not that big of a up. But then once I sort of had done that and I'm back at UMass Amherst, I'm getting good grades, and everyone's like, wow, you did it. Like, you're back on the straight and narrow.

[Coupon Holder / Listener]

Let's riot.

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

It's like, bring it back. It was like I hadn't given really any consideration to what do you do after school? And it felt like no challenge. It felt like, oh, okay, well, I got your grades. I'm gonna have a degree. I can get a job now. I kind of hated that idea. I didn't want to just be like, and now I'm done with goal setting. I wanted to do something that required additional, like, full energy and full commitment. And I had always been sort of drawn to the military. My buddies had gone off to Iraq and Afghanistan in, like, 2006, after high school. And I always sort of wanted to serve and go over. I honestly wanted to go to war, if I'm being honest. Maybe that's just a part of who I am. But around the end of my college tenure, I began thinking about the military. And I. I learned that some family friends who I knew, I knew who they were, but I only thought they were in the military. My mom told me that, oh, no, they actually are Navy SEALs. And I'm like, wait, Navy SEALs? I have, like, family friends who are, like, in one of the most elite, you know, military units. And they're like, yeah, you should go talk to them about being a Navy seal. And I'm like, oh, my God, I don't know anything about it. And so I make a plan to go to New Hampshire to see these guys. And it's funny, there's the Navy SEAL teams, which is what people know of, but then within the SEAL teams, There's Seal Team 6, which is sort of it's talked about a bunch in movies and books, but it really does exist and it really is separate than the regular. It's called the white side and the dark side. So within the SEAL community there's a very big distinction there. I was only ever on the white side, which is not Team Six. Team six, it might as well be a different unit because you have to first become a Navy SEAL and you have to basically serve in combat and do multiple rotations and be the basically one of the best seals that exist. Then you go to their selection program, which you have to be invited to. And it's infinitely harder than anything you have to do to become a seal because now they're not testing your grit, which is basically what SEAL training is like. Hey, we're going to make you feel miserable. Can you stand it? SEAL Team six training is we already know you have grit, so we don't give a shit about that skill. How good are you at being a Navy seal? And then the standards are unbelievably hard. So you have these amazing, amazing guys who wash out of Seal Team 6, but the guys who make it are like a different breed.

[Robert Kelly]

Can I ask about the train? Because I think you kind of answered it a little bit when you said you've got a job at a gym. I was going to say because if you were to kind of party in college, the idea like the shift to going into like SEAL training, like you have to go into that kind of in shape already. At least you can't just go like, you can't use it as like a weight loss program like SEAL training. You can't, you'll die. I don't think so, Bobby.

[Coupon Holder / Listener]

You can't.

[Robert Kelly]

No, I know. Bobby keeps wondering why they're not getting back to them.

[Big Jokerson]

Do they have a baby SEAL Team six?

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

They do.

[Big Jokerson]

Or a real, real SEAL team.

[Robert Kelly]

Yeah, you could dress like a blue.

[Coupon Holder / Listener]

SEAL if you want.

[Robert Kelly]

Yeah, dude, you could be a Navy seal.

[Big Jokerson]

When you ring the bell, they bring you food.

[Robert Kelly]

He goes, bobby didn't get the memo right. He was out in Afghanistan spinning a beach ball on his nose.

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

Gas, snacks, tolls.

[Geico Commercial Narrator]

This trip is draining my wallet.

[Metro by T-Mobile Commercial Narrator]

Yeah, but we'll be with family.

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

You're in a good mood.

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What's your deal?

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[Greenlight Commercial Narrator]

Text and data tour to Metro. Get that more for your money feeling only At Metro by T Mobile, just bring your number.

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

$30 first monthly, 25 after with autopay not available. If with Metro T Mobile in the past 180 days.

[Coupon Holder / Listener]

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[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

Yeah, so, but, you know, the.

[Big Jokerson]

I heard your. Well, your wife, actually. Because there's two parts of the training. Yeah, there's the. The. The. You know, there's the holding the log and marching and. And then there's this, the water part, which is the worst part, especially for somebody who doesn't like water. It doesn't swim. But your wife is like an amazing swimmer, and she helped my mom. Was it your mom?

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

You're dead on about the story, but okay.

[Robert Kelly]

All right, guys, been good hanging out here. I'm taking off.

[Big Jokerson]

Oh, no, Jay. I'll see you later, buddy.

[Robert Kelly]

All right.

[Big Jokerson]

Yeah, I'm good.

[Quints / Babbel Commercial Narrator]

But it was.

[Big Jokerson]

Okay. It's your mom who helped you help train for the swimming part of that.

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

Yeah, so. So the way. And so to become a Navy seal. So forget the Navy. The SEAL Team six thing. I never did it. It's like. It's like once you become a seal, there's additional training and you do that, but just to become a Navy seal, like from. From the streets being a civilian to a seal, assuming you enlist and do not become an officer, which is sort of. It's a nuance there. But most people enlist in the military to become seals, the vast majority. So that's the route I took. It takes, you know, about two Years from the time you say I want to do it, to actually getting your trident pinned on your chest and then you're not even ready to deploy. You just are technically a Navy seal. And the truth is it's like an unbelievably grueling and soul searching process that, you know, as much as I went in really well equipped with information because I didn't finish the story. But the family friends of mine were Seal Team 6 guys and I went to meet with them in New Hampshire and they're at this like compound where other Seal Team 6 guys were out in the shack, out in the woods. And it was like, it changed my life. Cause I saw these guys that are like so tough and everything, but they're like, it's a full blown meritocracy, like anyone can try out. You just gotta be able to suffer long enough to make it through. And basically it's like, you know, it's baptism by fire. It really is. And I was really drawn to that. And I think that I'm the type of person that suffers really well a lot of times because I create the suffering unto myself. But with SEAL training, initial SEAL training, what I was sort of told is there isn't a way to describe how difficult it's going to be because this sort of varies for each person. But there's one aspect of training that undoubtedly is like a great equalizer across the board and it's water. In fact, when you walk into it gives me chills just thinking about this. When you walk into what's called the combat training tank, it's this massive pool, very famous pool that's got all this, like the fences are all blocked off so you can't look in. And it's blocked overhead by some special technology, like no one can see it, but it's where all the SEAL training happens. And it says, over the top before you walk in. Water will make cowards of us all. And every time you're in the training area for this pool, you couldn't look at the water. You could only either be in the water and be basically underwater, or your back was turned to the water. And just imagine like sitting around a pool deck, you're getting hosed off all the time and all you hear behind you is silence or people coming up and someone screaming, red line, red line. And it's because someone passed out underwater. It happened every day. So it's like this vicious underwater training that you don't really ever get to witness. You either are directly experiencing it or you're Listening to it with your back turned. And it's just, it's. Everything is a psychological. Everything is psychological torture. And the water part, there's a whole block of training that's all. It's called dive face. And it's sort of benign when you look at it. On paper, it's like nine weeks of like scuba training. But like, it all culminates in this one test called pool comp. Or it stands for pool competency. And it's basically you're demonstrating your ability to stay calm during an emergency underwater. And it's a 20 minute test. It's. It has to take 20 minutes. And you go underwater with your tanks on your back, your scuba tanks, and you go to the bottom of the nine foot section of the pool. So it's like a six foot section. It slopes down to nine feet, slopes down to 15ft. And your test takes place in the nine foot section. And there are all these line markers that. Imagine if you're swimming a pool, you see line markers going up and down to designate the lanes. You and seven or eight other guys are testing at the same time, but you're all. You have to stay on your lane marker and you crawl on your hands and knees, up and down on the nine foot section on your line. And periodically, pretty quickly, you have two instructors who are testing you at the same time, and they have a little, what do you call it, what's that? The snorkel. They're on a snorkel and one by one they'll alternate. One guy dives down and they grab you and your train part of the test is as soon as you feel someone grabbing you, you have to go into the fetal position and just wait. You can't do it. You cannot fight back. You fail the test if you remotely fight back. They come down, they turn off your air, and they start tying knots in your hoses. They take your weight belt off, they screw with you for a few seconds, and at first the problems they create for you are relatively minor. And it's just sort of like, you know, it's harrowing to be down there. You don't, you can't see them. You're just crawling and you're trying to time your breaths because you don't want to be hypoxic when they come down. You don't want to be on an exhale and they're watching your bubbles. They wait for you to be on an exhale, to come down and grab you, but you're sort of like slowly hyperventilating, preparing for someone to come down and grab you. The second they grab you, you gotta wait. And the first time, it's like you know, 15 seconds of them tossing you around. And then when you're done and you know they've swam away from you, you follow the same procedure. No matter what, no matter how outta air you are, no matter how panicked you are, you have to follow the exact same procedure every single time. And I can probably even do it now because it's so ingrained. It's like you stop, you get on your knees, you never plant your feet on the bottom of the pool. You reach back, you turn your air on, quarter turn back, trace to your J valve, flip your J valve up, trace your manifold to your straps, go down to your chest strap, make sure there's a 3 inch bitter end down to your waist strap, 6 inch bitter end, reach back to back. There's a whole process to it, none of which gets your air on if there's a significant problem. But you have to demonstrate, like if there's a big knot in your hoses and you turned your air on and you hear a ka tung, which means the air is on, but it's not coming through, you can't jump to the next, you can't jump to step 10, which is ditch your tanks, undo the knot and breathe again. You have to follow the procedure without air. And so it takes you like 45 seconds or so to fix the problem. And then as soon as you're back up and running, you turn and you give your okay symbol to the instructors and you go back to crawling. And for 20 minutes you do this. But each time they come down, it takes longer for them to create the problem, and it takes longer for you to fix the problem. And especially towards the end, they tie these things called whammy knots, or it's actually not called the whammy knot. I forgot what it's called where they teach you. It's actually like skydiving, where when you get under canopy, when you skydive, even if your canopy's fucked up, if you can fly it, don't ditch it, because you don't know if your reserve is going to be better than this one. So you get taught to like, okay, when you're underwater, if you get an air source, even if water's partially coming in, that's still a viable air source, don't ditch it. And so by the end of your test, about 14, 15 minutes in, they start giving you these knots that are unrecoverable, but you can breathe on them. And it requires doing this tilting. You can't see me, but you tilt your head to the side and you gotta hold the mouthpiece barely into your mouth, and there's a leak on the side of your mouth. So every inhale, water comes into your mouth and you have to drink the pool water to get one little tiny gulp of air. And so you are hovering on the verge of passing out for the last six or seven minutes. And it's simulated drowning. I mean, that's basically what it's designed to be. It's. Can you stay calm when your body is signaling to you that you're fucking drowning?

[Robert Kelly]

And.

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

And if you pass that test, you're about halfway through SEAL training. Half.

[Robert Kelly]

Half. This is like, you don't give me.

[Big Jokerson]

The trident when you get out of the pool.

[Robert Kelly]

It's like trying to get into a frat without the gay stuff.

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

Yeah.

[Robert Kelly]

Because you have to go underwater for two minutes and do push ups over Jimmy's ball bag.

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

But yeah, no, that's. That's a great.

[Big Jokerson]

I. I mean, I was a lifeguard and I got my lifeguard in Malden High, so I relate to some of this.

[Robert Kelly]

Yeah, yeah.

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

It's really no different.

[Big Jokerson]

Some of it, you know, same thing, dude, they got to do 10 laps in under 10 minutes.

[Robert Kelly]

They come. They come underwater and they touch you and take your whistle, freak out. I'm Open Water one certified.

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

I'm not actually.

[Big Jokerson]

What the is that?

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

Trying to bond. Patty's. Are you scuba certified?

[Robert Kelly]

Yeah.

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

Patty. Patty, Open one.

[Quints / Babbel Commercial Narrator]

Yeah.

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

So we know he thought you were.

[Big Jokerson]

My kid for the last 20 minutes.

[Robert Kelly]

He goes, what are they? They give them two days off for MLK this year.

[Big Jokerson]

Well, we only have you for a certain amount of time, and I want to get into it because you did two tours of duty over there. And why did you leave the SEAL team? Why did you leave the military? Did you just.

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

Yeah.

[Robert Kelly]

Mean girls.

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

Yeah, there's a lot of mean girls in the SEAL team. And I couldn't handle it. No. So the. So we go through all the training and in many ways, like, I. Despite going in with a lot of grit and ability to suffer. Well, you know, to be honest, early on, I felt like I really just wanted the selection process. That's what I was seeking. But actually doing the job, once you've done all the tests and like, okay, you're a Navy seal. It isn't that I disagree with it or didn't want to do it, it just was. I had fantasized about graduating SEAL training, but very few People actually consider what the lifestyle is going to be like in the SEAL teams and it's fucking brutal. Like you're basically gone most of the year either with training or deployments. It's, it's great in that way because you become close as you can be with your, with your teammates. It's amazing. But it really is like you have a different life. You live in a bubble, which is the military bubble. And I think that I pretty quickly realized that, you know, I would do as good of a job as I could. I would, I would do all the things I said I would do, but it didn't feel like a long term plan for me at least to some.

[Robert Kelly]

Degree is like anything else though. Like if you like, you're showing that lack of interest in doing it after you've gone through the thing and you've, you excelled at being able to do it. And do they try to convince you to not leave? They try to be like desperately try to get you, whether it be with money or anything. Is there.

[Big Jokerson]

Yes, a lot of money. I mean you are, you are a thing that they built to do a certain job.

[Robert Kelly]

That's what I'm saying. It's like they put almost in their mind, it's like, what's with the work and the money if like the person's gonna go, ah, nevermind that.

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

Definitely when I was, but I mean I was medically retired. But there's, there's a distinction there. I mean the medical retirement process, realistically for a lot of people, it's not literally that I was like unable to function and like, oh my God, get this guy out of here. He's, he's not fit for the job. It's often like you're already getting ready to leave and you do this medical evaluation on your way out. And it's not uncommon to have things flagged that effectively turn into a medical retirement. And for me that's effectively what happened. So that's why I wanted to say that I, I was gonna get out. It was technically a medical retirement based on real injuries, but I would have gotten out, see.

[Big Jokerson]

So you get out of the seals and, and how do you go from that type of lifestyle to hip hop dance?

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

Yeah.

[Robert Kelly]

To. And here we are.

[Big Jokerson]

The greatest hip hop dance, Massachusetts.

[Robert Kelly]

Now let's get to the nitty gritty of the story. How the hell did you get into hip hop dance?

[Big Jokerson]

Yeah, how? No, how did you get into storytelling where, you know, where did you know you had the knack for it or you could do it or people would listen to it. How did you go from Navy SEAL to this?

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

Yeah, I mean, just to close the loop on the last thought, they did try to push to keep me in. They do offer money. It just, it wasn't worth it. And there's a huge drop off for a lot of team guys after their first tour because basically it's like, I don't know if I want to do this anymore. And those guys all get out, but then other guys are pot committed and they stay in. And there's a lot of people that do that. To the question of how I wound up here as a, as the, you know, big hip hop dancer that I am. No. How did I wind up doing like.

[Robert Kelly]

Storytelling seven legs out there? It's crazy.

[Big Jokerson]

How great would it, how great would have. He did learn that in Quincy, Mass. He just broke out right now and some moves. His sister had a piece of cardboard.

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

I. So when I, when I was in the process of being medically retired, which really, it's, it's an administrative process, I was given an exit date from the military that was something like, you know, mid-2018. This is like in 2016, end of 2016, I'm being told this. And so it's sort of like, all right, you're going to be in for the next year or so and then you're going to get out mid 2018. And so I'm planning for that. However, my date for exiting the military got bumped up pretty drastically to the end of 2017. But it was like, hey, lucky you, it processed. You're getting medically retired, you get some benefits, but you're out the door earlier. And I didn't have a job lined up and basically I got out and I wound up like, sort of floundering around, like doing some consulting. I did some charity work. Ironically, I ended up co founding this charity, which is, it's a real charity and it's still going today. It's called Elite Meat. That in an effort and it's exactly what it sounds like.

[Quints / Babbel Commercial Narrator]

Yeah.

[Robert Kelly]

SEAL Team Retiree Gigolos, Elite Meet.

[Big Jokerson]

That's a great name.

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

But in an effort to get myself a job, I was like orchestrating or I was part of orchestrating these networking events with, with other professionals. And it turned into like my pseudo job to organize get togethers for other people to get jobs out of the military. But I, early on, after I got out, this is the beginning of 2018, I'm a civilian. It sounds silly, but I, I saw the Internet and social media and content creation as like this really obvious, like wild west that it just seemed like there's so much that you can gain if you just make content reasonably well on the Internet. Because it's like every day it's like someone went viral or a new brand emerged or whatever it was. And it seemed like the barrier to entry is so, so low. Why isn't everybody trying it? And so I sort of began.

[Big Jokerson]

I've tried it for 15 years. It's not working out.

[Robert Kelly]

It sounds also like you have like a great, like you're not a quitter at all. It's almost like a different, like you kind of conquer, almost finish something in your mind and kind of go like, what do you think this is like a long haul thing? Is this something you can get bored of at one point doing this?

[Big Jokerson]

I don't know.

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

I mean, this is the longest.

[Robert Kelly]

Not that you were bored of SEAL team, I mean, but you know, just kind of the idea when you did it though, you were like, this is why I wanted to graduate. And that's kind of what I wanted to do.

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

So what's next, truthfully, with the content thing? You know, it's so much work. Or it was initially to start it, because the fact is I posted a video. I mean, I'm sort of abbreviating how this went, but I posted a video to TikTok in 2020 about these hikers in Russia that went missing. It's called the Dyatlov Pass mystery And it takes 20 minutes to tell. You can Google it and look it up, but it's very, very mysterious. These nine hikers go missing. And I thought it was a fascinating story. And when I posted it, I had, excuse me, previously been trying to go viral on the Internet to really know success across multiple categories, like cringy, awful, content that went nowhere.

[Big Jokerson]

Try full nudity like you did in college.

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

I did the full nudity thing. It is pre onlyfans, so it didn't really. So I missed the boat on that one. But I posted this story, my retelling, the 60 second retelling of this mystery, the D Outlaw Pass mystery, really without much expectation that it would do well. And it just went mega viral, like in one day. There's like 5 million views on it. And I mean, really, it was just a no nonsense, simple description of the story that I really did find interesting.

[Robert Kelly]

That's what I'm fascinated by is that, that like when Bobby first introduced, I was like, oh, it's going to be your stories of SEAL team and things growing up. And it was like no, no. He tells, like, scary stories, true crime stories. I was like, oh, I didn't realize at the beginning it was just story.

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

It's totally different.

[Robert Kelly]

I've never even known that to be a thing.

[Big Jokerson]

I have to admit. I did bring you to the show, and I told them that I was gonna try my hand at storytelling the Danny LaPlante story.

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

Dude, I heard it was close to what I delivered. I was pretty much exact.

[Big Jokerson]

I didn't tell them. I just told him, I'm gonna try my hand, and I told you a story word for word. And I literally had Jay. He never listens to me, and I had him in the palm of my hand.

[Robert Kelly]

Oh, yeah.

[Big Jokerson]

But then he found out that I just retold your story the way, and he was really disappointed.

[Robert Kelly]

Oh, he used words he would never use. Yeah.

[Big Jokerson]

Which I thought that, to me, that story is amazing.

[Quints / Babbel Commercial Narrator]

Yeah.

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

So I told that one live during the. Did you go to any of the shows by any chance?

[Big Jokerson]

No, I didn't get. I didn't. I didn't even know, dude.

[Quints / Babbel Commercial Narrator]

I just.

[Big Jokerson]

I found out of you recently, and I brought you the show, and then I started watching your show.

[Robert Kelly]

You took us to the show for Christmas?

[Big Jokerson]

I.

[Quints / Babbel Commercial Narrator]

No, I did.

[Big Jokerson]

So I didn't even know you do live. I just found out that you go. You do live shows a tour in.

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

2024, and you know the. That story, the Danny Laplant story. You know, the abbreviated version. I don't want to spoil the story. Can I spoil.

[Big Jokerson]

I already spoiled yours.

[Robert Kelly]

Yeah.

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

So, I mean, basically, this kid is living in the walls of this family, sort of in retribution for what he believes is he was spurned by one of the kids who lived in the house. So he's like, I'm gonna get r. Retaliation by living in your walls for a year and spying on you and causing problems. And then he ultimately is discovered living in the walls, and he's arrested, but he is allowed out on probation 10 months later. And he goes into another family's house and lives in their walls, but he ends up killing the three quarters of the family, drowns the children in the bathtub, and murders the wife.

[Robert Kelly]

Oh, he's bored of just living in a wall.

[Coupon Holder / Listener]

It's just like you, dude. He's already done that.

[Robert Kelly]

He has to do the next thing.

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

So there's really a powerful psychological element to it in the first half, because the first half is, if you look at it from the perspective of the family in the house. Think of it this way. When you're at your house, I Mean, all joking aside, you do not even consider that maybe there's somebody living in your wall.

[Big Jokerson]

I didn't till I heard your story.

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

Now, now it's on your mind.

[Big Jokerson]

Now every night I'm up checking behind the washing machine if there's a hole.

[Robert Kelly]

Yeah, I've lived that way every day my entire life. I always assume someone's in the walls.

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

Of course, but if you play. And one of the things that I. And me and Evan are. Who's my sister and also a Pulitzer Prize winner and head writer for our company.

[Big Jokerson]

Yeah, she didn't fuck off in college like that.

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

She's incredibly talented. The way we put stories together is. A lot of times it's actually really simple. It's not meant to be deceptive or something. It's more like what is the point of view that the audience will most react to. And a lot of times it's putting your. Putting the audience in the perspective of the victims and not like in a. In a dramatic way. But think about it. I'm going to put you in the house and you're going to start noticing things happening in this house that they, through their perspective don't understand and they're trying to rationalize it. You're hearing these tapping sounds and things are getting moved and there's writing on the walls. It's the kids. The kids are doing it. No, it's not us. It's a fucking ghost. It's. But it's. You're building all this tension and doing it live. When it finally becomes revealed that no, there's a fucking psycho wearing a dress with clown makeup and a hatchet over his shoulder who's walked out of your fucking walls. I remember I would tell this story and there's thousands of people in the crowd and everybody is just completely transfixed as you reveal the moment. And I embody the hatchet wielding, dress wearing maniac and I walk towards the front of the stage and it's like no one's on their phone. Everyone's just locked in on what the fuck is happening in this house. And it made for just a brilliant finish to the show. It. It was really incredible.

[Robert Kelly]

Is there is your competition for that? I guess almost like. Well, it's not. Maybe in life. Not in live performance. The beauty of live performance is really your only competition with yourself.

[Big Jokerson]

We know it's not me.

[Robert Kelly]

No, but I mean like, like a true crime thing that does, whether it be full reenactments or has like, you know, AI or just flat out stock footage or not stock Footage, but like police case footage or real pictures of whatever and everything involved. It's really impressive, I'm saying, to be able to do all that with. I mean, we do stand up. It's similar, the same thing. You have to do it all with words.

[Quints / Babbel Commercial Narrator]

Yeah.

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

I mean, I have not done standup comedy, but I would imagine, I mean, the way that we put together the tour and we've only done one. We've done one standalone show and then a series of 15 shows. That was the tour. I early on wanted it to feel like. I want the success of the tour to hinge on purely my ability to speak and act on the stage. And so I really modeled it after standup comedy. Like when I walk out on the stage, it's me and a microphone and there's very little in the way of. And you.

[Big Jokerson]

Hey, nice shirt.

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

A little crowd work.

[Robert Kelly]

You guys a couple?

[Big Jokerson]

Is that your wife?

[Quints / Babbel Commercial Narrator]

Eh?

[Robert Kelly]

You guys a couple? Anyway, he had a hook for a.

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

Hand, but yeah, no, I take a lot of inspiration from stand up comics.

[Big Jokerson]

Well, your stories, I mean, I gotta be honest with you, when I first saw you, I was like, ah, storytelling. And then you. When I. That was the first story. I listened to you.

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

It's a good one.

[Big Jokerson]

And when you were talking about the girls and the mother and they thought it was her mother from when they did the Ouija board. I can't believe how engaged you got me. Even before the guy came out of the club that was like, holy shit.

[Robert Kelly]

Yeah.

[Big Jokerson]

And then the end of the story. I mean, it is really. And I've listened to a bunch of them after that. And you really know how to pull people in and tell these that you didn't even know happened. That you didn't even. These stories, you don't even know that they exist. But these are real stories. Yeah. Everything you're talking about.

[Robert Kelly]

He's married. He's married.

[Big Jokerson]

Yeah. But you don't know that.

[Robert Kelly]

You don't know he said it. I don't know.

[Big Jokerson]

College dude. You don't know if it's worth it.

[Robert Kelly]

His name is John Ballin. Mr. Ballin. The Mr. Ballin podcast, Strange, Dark and Mysterious Stories is available on the Sirius XM app now. Yeah. Family.

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

Thank you.

[Robert Kelly]

And all other podcast platforms now, man. A podcast over SiriusXM. They're gonna give you a nice studio, man. This crap like some radio assholes like we are. That's what they said to us. Hey, how come we don't have cameras that work or anything in here? And they go, well, you're a radio show. Okay, that makes sense. Thank you, guys. You can get early access for SiriusXM podcasts and SiriusXM podcast plus subscribers, of course, go to Punchup Live Robert Kelly for his dates. Poughkeepsie this weekend. This weekend I'm in Chicago and the Garden. It's already Cat's Head, Madison Square Garden with Shane Gillis.

[Big Jokerson]

Hey, thanks for coming in, man. It was a pleasure meeting.

[John B. Allen / Mr. Ballin]

Thank you. This was awesome. Thank you, guys.

[Rich Gannon]

This is Rich Gannon from SiriusXM NFL Radio reminding you that SiriusXM is the place to hear every NFL playoff game from the wild card round all the way through the Super Bowl. Plus, you get to decide how you want to listen to the game. We'll have the hometown announcers for each game and the national broadcasters on your radio and on the SiriusXM app. And if it's football talk that you want, just search for NFL Radio on the app or tune to Sirius XM channel 88 in your car.

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