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- [00:02]
Andrew Porter
Race the rudders. Raise the sails. Race the sails.
- [00:05]
Charlie Gibson
Captain, an unidentified ship is approaching.
- [00:07]
Kate
Over.
- [00:08]
Andrew Porter
Roger, wait. Is that an enterprise sales solution? Reach sales professionals, not professional sailors. With LinkedIn ads, you can target the right people by industry, job title and more. We'll even give you a $100 credit on your next campaign. Get started today at LinkedIn.com results, terms and conditions apply.
- [00:36]
Kate
Well, it's that time again. It is the first show in June, which means the flowers are a popping and the birds are a singing and the grass is coming up out of the ground. It's summertime and it's the bookcase. And I am Kate of half of the hosting team for the bookcase. And I will introduce my other half.
- [00:56]
Lori Bergamotto
Well, you won't recognize me. The grass is a growin' by the way, you won't recognize me because I.
- [01:02]
Charlie Gibson
Have a terrible cold.
- [01:03]
Lori Bergamotto
And I apologize for sounding like a croaky frog.
- [01:06]
Kate
We can add that to the summer description. The frogs are a croakin' you got it.
- [01:11]
Lori Bergamotto
You got it. Okay. You can do that. Anyway, the book is this week written by a fellow named Andrew Porter. It is the imagined life and I really loved it. And indeed, Kate and I have been tasked by Good Morning America early in July to give three suggestions, each of us for summer reading. And I think I will probably pick this book as one of the books that I would urge people to read this summer.
- [01:40]
Kate
Yeah, I have always been a big John Cheever fan, although sometimes you don't want to attach new writers to old writers lest they get a reputation. But I found a lot of Cheever in Andrew's writing and this book is terrific. It is this, it is sort of a family story about a problematic father and a son who goes on a quest to find what happened to his father after he left the family. But it's very atmospheric, it's complex, and I really enjoyed living in this character's mind for the length of the book. I would highly recommend this. And I'm also enjoying I'm Going Back and I'm also reading older Andrew Porter because now I've just fallen in love with his writing. He is very talented.
- [02:28]
Lori Bergamotto
Well, he's known a great deal for short story writing and we talked to him about why this book became a novel as opposed to a short story. And he talked about the importance of the first chapter and he sets out some mysteries right away in the first chapter. I'll just read the first sentence of the book. When I first embarked on this project a few years ago, this search, if you will for the truth of what happened to my father. My wife Allison, warned me about the dangers of getting too close to something.
- [02:58]
Charlie Gibson
I might not want to know.
- [03:00]
Lori Bergamotto
He sets up a series of mysteries about his father who abandoned the family when Steven, that's his name, is 12 years old. And Steven is traumatized by it. And 40 years later, 1984, decides to go and see if he can find his father and find out what happened to him and solve the mysteries that he's had in his mind about his dad. And interestingly enough, you never know the father's name. I don't know why that was struck me.
- [03:29]
Kate
Well, I think it adds, it adds. I actually read a little bit about this and he says the reason that he doesn't name the father is it contributes to the great mystery of his father. Who is this man? Where did he go? I, I think the fact that the father remains nameless contributes to that overall feeling. I don't want to, you know, solve any of the mysteries for you because those would be tremendous spoilers, but man, he really sticks the landing. And I found this just to be a beautiful human complex family story with some terrific writing.
- [04:02]
Lori Bergamotto
Yeah, his father is a professor. He tells you right away his father yearns to get tenure at the university where he's teaching and doesn't get it. He tells you that right in the first chapter. And then he disappears. And Steven is 12 when he observes his father with a series of pool parties out in the backyard of their house in which his father is behaving badly. And for a 12 year old to see that in a parent is difficult. He's very impressionable at that age of 12. And so it really haunts at what he saw of his father. And then his father disappears. And at the age of 52, I guess his young 50s, he goes in search of dad. And so you, you go back and forth between when he's 12 and when he's 52 and when he's 12 and when he'S 52, as he, as he searches for dad. And even though dad has done something that I think is totally reprehensible, he writes about his father with some sympathy and empathy. I think looking at what happened to his dad as sort of a midlife crisis.
- [05:03]
Kate
I guess we've been exposed to the way so many different writers write. So before we go to the conversation, I just want to say to all of those who may be potentially thinking about writing, I love the way Andrew Porter says he does it. He's writing first chapters all the time. At any time, he can pick up any of those first chapters and make them into something else. He's constantly crafting first chapters so that he has various launch pads that he can explore when he's ready to take the dive. And I think that's really fascinating and.
- [05:34]
Lori Bergamotto
Doesn'T know where the dive is going to take him.
- [05:36]
Kate
Yeah.
- [05:37]
Lori Bergamotto
And I just went back and read the first chapter about 15 minutes ago, and he really does set out the book marvelously well. He's a teacher of English at Trinity College in Texas. Small college. And I envy his students, who have got to be very, very lucky. Andrew Porter, the book is the Imagined Life, and he's talking to Kate and Charlie Gibson.
- [06:02]
Kate
Andrew Porter, it is such a pleasure to have you in the bookcase. The new book, the Imagined Life, which I loved. I read an interview with you once that said, now you were talking about your short stories. I believe with this interview that the first thing that comes to you is an image. I wondered if this book was launched by an image or. Or what this book was. How did this book launch? What started it for you if it wasn't an image?
- [06:27]
Andrew Porter
Yeah, it really grew out of the first chapter, which. In which you have the narrator kind of describing a party that his parents threw, which is kind of a typical type of party that they'd throw in the early 80s in Southern California. Pool parties with young academics there. And I don't know if it's a particular image, but there are many images from that chapter as I was creating that chapter, that kind of gave rise to the world of the novel. And I feel like once I can see that world, it becomes, you know, much easier to imagine the story that's going to happen within that world. But it really did start with that first chapter, which I had been tinkering around with, you know, for a couple years before I actually wrote the novel. And I wrote the novel relatively quickly, but that first chapter I had been kind of tinkering with for a while, and part of it was building up the images that would become the world of the book.
- [07:30]
Kate
When you were tinkering and writing with that first chapter, did you know it was a first chapter, or did you think you were perfecting a short story? Why did it take two years?
- [07:38]
Andrew Porter
Yeah, anything I start writing, I assume, is a short story until it becomes something bigger. And so initially I did think it might be a story, but as I added more characters and as I kind of got a better sense of what the real mystery of the story was, which was, you know, why this Character, Steven's father had disappeared in the early 80s. I thought, this is not a mystery I can wrap up in, you know. You know, a short story. It's gonna be a much longer story. So at. At a certain point, maybe halfway through, I realized it was getting bigger rather than smaller.
- [08:21]
Charlie Gibson
But what took you so damn long? I mean, you wrote the first chapter. You had the first chapter. You said it was all going to. It all did arise out of that first chapter. I went back and reread the first chapter, and I see exactly what you're talking about. But what took you so long?
- [08:37]
Andrew Porter
To be honest, I'm really apprehensive to start any type of novel just because it's such a huge time commitment. And so this was not the only novel that I was thinking about writing during that time. That's why it took me so long. During that time, I was not, you know, I was also writing short stories and working on my last book. But, yeah, I just wasn't. I'm slow to commit when it comes to novels.
- [09:03]
Charlie Gibson
I'm curious as to how you picked Stephen's ages. He's observing his father at the age of 12, which is such an impressionable age, and then 40 years later, as he goes in search of his father and what his father was about and to answer the mysteries, as you refer to them, of his father's being. I'm curious as to why you chose those ages and was 12, in your mind, chosen because he sees so much, but he understands so little?
- [09:38]
Andrew Porter
Yes, absolutely. And. And at the very beginning of the novel, he's. I want. He's actually 11. Right. At first. And I wanted him to go from 11 to 12 because I feel like something really significant happens in those years. And that's when you start, for one, to see your parents as different, you know, than. Than how you saw them as a child, to see their flaws, to see them as human beings. Right. And I just think that that begins to happen at that age. And so I wanted Steven to be catching glimpses of his father's flaws at the same time that he still kind of idolizes him and to some extent, kind of, you know, worshiped him and put to mind a pedestal for a lot of. Of the backstory in the novel, as is natural, I think, when you're that age. Right. But it's beginning to kind of creep in, these little, like, suggestions of, you know, flaws in his father. And I feel like that increases as the Bible goes on.
- [10:40]
Charlie Gibson
I saw a quote from you in an interview that I thought was A wonderful summation of the book. Steven's whole life had been imagining how his life would have been different had his father not disappeared. But why did you decide to have him wait 40 years before he goes in search of his father and what his father was? Why didn't he do it sooner?
- [11:06]
Andrew Porter
Yeah, you know, I think that, you know, in my experience, like, just talking to friends and stuff, I. You know, I see that a lot where there are kind of unresolved issues with parents and they just choose to not deal with them. Right. And whatever they may be. And in his case, it's the disappearance of his father. And I think on sub. Some, maybe subconscious level, he just doesn't really want to open that door again. Like, part of him doesn't want to figure out what's happened for a lot of his adult life. It's easier for him to just kind of sweep it under the carpet. And so I wanted this to be a character who'd really been, like, purposely not dealing with this very big thing in his life for a lot of years. And so that's why I chose that age, and that's why I had him not sort of purposely looking for his father. Yeah.
- [12:03]
Kate
My father and I talk all the time when we're reading a book. We call each other sometimes. We go, where are you? Did he stick the landing? Did he stick the landing? Did he stick the landing? Did they stick the landing? And so I wanted to ask you when you knew what your ending was without giving anything away, because we do believe you stick the landing. So at what point were you like, okay, I think this is the ending that I'm writing towards, and I'm happy with it. Cause I also read you struggle a little with endings, so that also propels the question.
- [12:32]
Andrew Porter
Yeah. And the ending was tricky. And thank you for saying that. I'm glad that you felt that I stuck the lion. Need. I went through a lot of kind of trial and error when I got to that part of the novel. And that was not the only direction that I went in at the end. I think that I. I considered a number of different options, and I wrote. I actually wrote different versions. And it came down to, like, what felt most satisfying, in a way, and also most true to the story and true to Steven's character, when whenever anything began to feel kind of inauthentic, you know, I would stop going in that direction. And so, yeah, it was trial and error, you know, because I kept myself in the dark. I was. I set myself up with a, you know, a problem at the end. But. But I'm glad. I'm glad you thought I pulled it off.
- [13:29]
Kate
I have a dear friend who's a writer, and we were just talking to him about endings. And I said, you. You're struggling with the ending. And he goes, kate, an ending has to feel both surprising and inevitable. Try that.
- [13:43]
Andrew Porter
Yeah, but I'm. Exactly. That's why I have. I have such trouble when I. You know, I teach fiction writing at college, and I. I always leave endings to the end of the semester, and I say the very same thing. It's like. It's a very hard thing to teach because, you know, there's no formula for endings. It's. It's. It's something that has to feel, as you said, surprising and original.
- [14:05]
Kate
Yeah. One of the things that I feel launches Steven into this quest is. Is. Is a. Is a desire for a deeper understanding of our parents. So I'm gonna ask what I think is probably an unfair philosophical question. Can you ever really understand your parents?
- [14:22]
Andrew Porter
I don't think so. I mean, I think you can to an extent, depending on your relationship with your parent. But I think one of the kind of. In some ways, one of the pleasures of life is as you get older, you learn more and more about your parents, and they become more complex. Right. You hear stories that you wouldn't have heard when you were 12, right. About things they did or things they experienced or they reveal things to you. Another side of themselves sometimes. And so they become more complex in some ways and become you. You develop a clearer sense of them. But they also become more mysterious, I think, and harder to pin down because they're taking on all of these new layers. Right. And so, to some extent, you can never. I don't think you can ever fully understand your parents. And that's certainly the big question that this novel grapples with.
- [15:18]
Charlie Gibson
There's also. Has been, in the last 50 years, I think, an evolution of the roles of men and how men are seen. And you chose an interesting time, 1980, when Stephen is observing his father. And I think some things that his father was doing are much more understandable now than they may have been back then. Could you have set this at a different time, or was 1980, really, in terms of the evolution of men's roles, an optimal time to place the book?
- [15:53]
Andrew Porter
Yeah, it really was for me, because I wanted there to be some of the kind of, you know, attitudes that existed at that time, some of the stigmas that existed that time, things that the father has to contend with, you know, to kind of add to the father's secretive behavior and to add to his mysteriousness in a certain way. One of the things, I think that also you asked about being 12, and I think for. For a lot of young boys, one of the things you're. You're trying to work out is your relationship to your masculinity. Right. And so I wanted Steven to be struggling with that as well and kind of looking to his father and his father's friends and getting different signals and messages and that adding to his own confusion about his own masculinity.
- [16:44]
Kate
I read that you thought for a long time about becoming a filmmaker, and I want to congratulate you for picking the much more safe profession of writing. That must have been a great leap to your parents. But I'm always interested in writers who are interested in filmmaking. When you're writing, are you playing the movie in your head?
- [17:03]
Andrew Porter
Yeah, I really need to visualize the world of anything I'm working on before I can really get fully immersed in writing about it. And so using details, I'm using language to kind of build a world that I can see very clearly in my mind. And my hope is that if I see it like a movie, that the reader will as well.
- [17:26]
Kate
That's interesting because I actually think of one of the themes of the book too, is that age, witnessing adult behavior. You know, watching your parents throw adult parties from your back window every Friday and Saturday night and misbehaving can't not affect you at that age.
- [17:45]
Andrew Porter
Speaking for a lot of Gen Xers, when I say, like, you know, a lot of us had to grow up kind of early because we were often in situations where we were witnessing adult behavior. Right. Maybe before we should. Should have been. And so, you know, they're often, you know, there's often something traumatic about that. Right. And I don't think you think about that at the time, but that's something Steven's reckons trying to reconcile as an adult is like some of those traumas of just witnessing some of the stuff that he witnessed and the way that that kind of affected him. Right. You know, at a time when he didn't really have the language to talk about what it was.
- [18:26]
Charlie Gibson
What part of novel writing is hardest for you? We talked to a writer recently who said, well, I have trouble with dialogue. So I went back and I read Tolstoy's Resurrections in which he characterizes dialogue instead of actually writing the dialogue. In many instances in this book, you do that. You characterize dialogue and characterize events that you don't actually see. So I'm wondering if that's conscious. And it leads me to ask what is the toughest part for you of writing a novel?
- [18:58]
Andrew Porter
Yeah, it is very conscious. And I think that in some cases it's about economy. Like, I'll realize that it would be much easier to have Stephen just summarize a scene rather than to put it in dialogue. And so I feel like a lot of times I'm picking and choosing, like which scenes do I do, I feel warrant, you know, being put into scene to have, you know, with dialogue and which ones can simply be reported. And so I think about that a lot. And it is always a deliberate choice when I, you know, when I choose to actually put a scene in dialogue. And it's not always the most dramatic scenes. Right. Some of the most dramatic events are reported by Steven. Right. Sometimes it's a really kind of quiet, subtle scene that I'll choose to put in dialogue because, you know, perhaps it carries more emotional weight or, you know, you know, for whatever reason. And so, yeah, I'm doing that very consciously. The hardest part of writing the novel, I mean, for me it's just having that faith, you know, and not losing faith. I think that that's the hardest part. I wrote it over the course of about nine months and I had to sit down each day and believe in it. And that's, that's probably the hardest part. Rather than any kind of technical aspect of putting it together, it's just kind of not losing faith that it's going to end somewhere satisfying and that the journey will be worthwhile.
- [20:29]
Kate
Well, thank you for keeping the faith because we loved this book. Thank you so much for talking to us and thank you for sharing the book with us.
- [20:37]
Andrew Porter
Thank you for having me. It's been such a delight to talk with you and an honor to be on your podcast and reporter.
- [20:44]
Charlie Gibson
We'll ask you to stand by for some rapid fire questions after this.
- [20:54]
Lori Bergamotto
From ABC News and Good morning America, I'm Lori Bergamotto. This brightly moment is brought to you by Macy's this Father's Day. Let Mac Macy's Be youe Guide to Gifting Dads. Embarrassing Their Kids is a time honored tradition. But Jeddon Smith took it to a whole new level with his dancing dad. School pickups. Smith has been busting a move for every school pickup since his daughter Jaina was in middle school, gaining fans among the students.
- [21:22]
Andrew Porter
And they were like, Go, Mr. Smith. Go Mr. Smith.
- [21:25]
Lori Bergamotto
But one dance performance stands out as bittersweet. It was the final father daughter pickup on Jaina's last day of high school.
- [21:31]
Andrew Porter
I just remember it being like, dang, this is the last time he's gonna.
- [21:34]
Charlie Gibson
Come to my high school and embarrass me.
- [21:36]
Andrew Porter
And I started getting really emotional.
- [21:38]
Lori Bergamotto
What started out as a way to tease and delight his daughter has turned into a tradition they'll both miss. Embrace your parents.
- [21:45]
Andrew Porter
It's their way of showing you love.
- [21:47]
Lori Bergamotto
This brightly moment has been brought to you by Macy's this Father's Day. Let Macy's be your guide to gifting.
- [21:55]
Andrew Porter
McCrispy strips are now at McDonald's.
- [21:58]
Unknown
I hope you're ready for the most dippable chicken in McDonald's history. Dip it in all the sauces.
- [22:02]
Andrew Porter
Dip it in that hot sauce in your bag. Dip it in your McFlurry.
- [22:06]
Unknown
Your dip is your business. McCrispy strips at McDonald's learning through play starts with Lego Duplo With Lego Duplo, toddlers can develop real life skills while having fun with colorful bricks made just for them. Large, easy to grip and safe to explore. When children express themselves with Lego Duplo, they build patience, problem solving and empathy. See your child learn perseverance and self expression with everything they imagine and create. Visit lego.com preschool to learn more.
- [22:45]
Charlie Gibson
Rapid Fire Questions for Andrew Porter. Your three favorite short story books.
- [22:50]
Andrew Porter
Oh boy. Stuart Diebeck's the Coast of Chicago, Dennis Johnson, Jesus's Son, and Lori Moore, Birds of America.
- [23:03]
Kate
Excellent. What book shows up over and over on your syllabi?
- [23:07]
Andrew Porter
The Best American Short Story is anthology. I teach mostly short stories and I teach a lot out of that anthology. And it's always different. So every year it's a different group of short stories. But that's the one mainstay is that anthology in some form some year is always on there.
- [23:25]
Charlie Gibson
When you teach short story writing, what's the one thought that you want to have in mind for your students when they end the course?
- [23:34]
Andrew Porter
I want them to believe in themselves and trust in their ability to tell a short story. I think that's the biggest hurdle for students who are trying to write short stories for the first time is believing that they have the tools to do it, that they've been reading stories their whole life and ingesting stories and watching stories and they actually know how to tell a good story. I think my hope is by the end of the course that they have that belief.
- [24:00]
Charlie Gibson
We had Ben Shattuck was with us who wrote a wonderful short story book and he gave me the best definition that I've heard of a short story And I just very quickly wonder if you agree with it. He said a short story should have a whole predicate that you don't see in the story, and then it should go on after the story ends and all of that left to your imagination. Do you buy that?
- [24:23]
Andrew Porter
I do, completely. And that's one of my favorite things about the form, is that there's usually not a finality. Even though there can be a really satisfying ending in a short story, it's often not final. And so you can. You're left to imagine how the story might continue afterward. And I love that.
- [24:42]
Kate
Do you lend out your books? Not yours personally, like the ones you wrote, but do you lend out your books from your book collection?
- [24:49]
Andrew Porter
I do sometimes. My books are very precious to me. So if it's. It's a book that I love, I often love that edition of it, and I've often read it more than once. And so there's something very precious to me about it. And I've discovered over the years not everybody gives books back. And so sometimes when I'm raving about a book and saying, you have to read this, I think I could just give it to them. But then I might never get this beloved edition back. And so I do. Sometimes I'll. I'll say, I'll put it that way.
- [25:22]
Charlie Gibson
Do you take notes in the margins?
- [25:24]
Andrew Porter
I don't, only if I have another edition. So if I'm like teaching a book for a class, I'll usually have my personal edition, which I've read and that I cherish. And then I have the one I'm teaching in and I'll write notes for that one. But not if I just have one edition. No.
- [25:41]
Kate
Oh, God, we're such nerds.
- [25:43]
Andrew Porter
I know.
- [25:46]
Kate
Last rapid fire I have for you. Writing habit you are most proud of, and writing habit you desperately wish you could change.
- [25:53]
Andrew Porter
Writing habit that I'm most proud of is that I have a routine that I go through before I start writing that I really stick to. And it works. You know, I have. It's my. I have my little ritual that I do in the mornings, and it involves coffee and sitting in a certain place and reading a little bit. And I have this whole thing, and I. I find that if I do that, it always yields something that day. And so I, I'm. I like the fact that I stick to that and that that tends to work out. I think one thing I need to get better at is edits. You know, I think that I've. I. I am much better than I was As a young writer. But it's still. That process is very stressful for me when I get edits back from an editor, and I have a amazing editor who doesn't give me. Who gives, like, brilliant edits. But even so, going back through and having to weigh the choices, and what if I did this and what if I use this word? And having to kind of revisit is hard for me, and I strive to get better at that.
- [27:03]
Charlie Gibson
And what's the most idiosyncratic thing that you have on your writing desk?
- [27:09]
Andrew Porter
I have a little mug I'm going to get sentimental that my daughter made. And it's like a can, like a soup can that she put construction paper around and she wrote, misspelled happy birthday when she was very young. And she gave it to me to have on my desk to hold my pencils and pens in. And I still do. And I probably always will have that little container.
- [27:38]
Kate
Andrew Porter, one of those writers that was a revelation for me. I love this book so much that I went right back and read the Theory of Light and Matter. I highly recommend his short stories as well. I think his use of language is. Is incredibly thoughtful and he's worth reading. Once he types the end and gets it on a shelf, I will be a reader.
- [27:58]
Lori Bergamotto
Well, I was curious in reading this book, the Imagined Life, whether it could have been a short story, whether he could have made this a short story, or whether it got padded out to make it a novel, or whether it really needed to be a novel. And I came to the latter conclusion. I think it needed to be a novel. And I'm so glad he made it such. But you've been exclaiming about his short stories for a while now since you read that. That book of his short stories. And I will go read it.
- [28:26]
Kate
Yeah, yeah. He's a great writer. And as I say, a lot of writers, I think, will use 50 words to describe something that could probably be summed up in a sentence. Maybe they've fallen in love with their own talent. I'm not sure. But I have even, I think, greater admiration for writers that can write something that is poignant, complex, and thoughtful and still be sparing with language, which I think Andrew Porter does very well.
- [28:51]
Lori Bergamotto
You're a fan of succinctness.
- [28:53]
Charlie Gibson
I don't know if that's a word.
- [28:55]
Lori Bergamotto
Succinctness.
- [28:56]
Kate
Not always. You know, I think, you know, look, I mean, I read Stephen King. I mean, you know, Stephen King. Stephen King's books are often the size of. Of a. Of a Bible. But that Being said, I love taking the dive into Stephen King. Any journey he wants to take me on, Even if it's 1500 pages, I'll take it. But I think if you can write a book that is a journey, that is moving, that has a satisfying conclusion and still paints beautiful atmospheric pictures and you can do it with a spareness of language, I think that's a unique talent and I think Andrew Porter has that talent.
- [29:36]
Lori Bergamotto
We will get into a book fact that we have for you. I'm sort of interested that unlike when I was a kid, independent bookstores more and more are selling other things. Puzzles, journals, pens, paper, et cetera, not just books. And we've been told that, yeah, that's, it's more profitable than a, than a book. So we asked Evan Frist, who wrote a book called the Bookshop, what percentage of sales for most bookshops are other than books?
- [30:05]
Charlie Gibson
What percentage of non book items do bookstores typically sell?
- [30:11]
Andrew Porter
Booksellers refer to these as sidelines. And the last reliable data indicates that books make up about 71% of all revenue at bookstores. That leaves 29% for other stuff. One of the first booksellers in 17th century Boston, a guy named Hez Usher, regularly sold sugar and wine. Ben Franklin and his bookstore liked to advertise very good chocolate.
- [30:39]
Kate
Actually, I have to say that's not. I thought it would be bigger. You know, you, you get the sense sometimes that bookstores are letting the gifts take up more room in the shop than they should. So I always thought you'd be looking at a 30, maybe even 40% in some cases. So 21%, that's not bad way to go.
- [30:56]
Lori Bergamotto
If you had a bookstore, would you be selling other stuff?
- [30:59]
Kate
I don't know. I think it depends on so many different factors. How much space do you have? What's your rent? What neighborhood are you in? What kind of foot traffic are you getting? I think my goal would be to avoid it, knowing in the back of my mind that it might in fact be unavoidable.
- [31:16]
Charlie Gibson
Fair enough.
- [31:17]
Kate
So I'm not sure. So I'm not sure.
- [31:18]
Charlie Gibson
Fair enough.
- [31:19]
Kate
I am going to let Froggy McFroggerton the Croaker take us to credits because I'm enjoying his voice and I know you are at home.
- [31:28]
Lori Bergamotto
Well, if I read the credits, they're pre recorded so I'll sound normal, but I really do apologize.
- [31:33]
Kate
You should do it like this because it's like you're going through puberty again. This is, is great.
- [31:37]
Lori Bergamotto
No, no, no. I want people to hear what I could sound like, not what I do sound like. Anyway, here are the people who make this podcast possible and then a final word from Andrew Porter the Bookcase With.
- [31:49]
Charlie Gibson
Kate and Charlie is a joint production of Good Morning America and ABC Audio. It is edited by Tom Butler of TKO Productions and our Executive producer is Simone Swink. We want to make special mention of Amanda McMaster, Sabrina Kohlberg and Ariel Chester of ABC Good Morning America and Josh Cohan of ABC Audio. You can follow us and rate and review this podcast wherever you get your podcasts. And if you like to find any of the books mentioned on this podcast, you can find them listed in the.
- [32:19]
Andrew Porter
Episode description so many of my codas would come from an old professor of mine, Marilynne Robinson, the brilliant novelist. But one thing she always talked about was writing from your deepest stories. And I don't have a specific quote, but just that idea would be my coda. Right from your deepest stories.
- [32:45]
Unknown
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