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- [00:00]
Sponsor
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- [00:38]
Charlie Gibson
Well, hello boys and girls and all you senior citizens and everybody in between. As far as the senior citizens are concerned, it is a great time to be silver, as they say. I'm Charlie Gibson of the Bookcase with Kate and Charlie.
- [00:50]
Kate Gibson
I'm Kate Gibson. So we give a big vitamin salute to the seniors, but we don't have much to say to the little kids. It's a great day to have a Flintstone vitamin. Let's go with that since we're covering the whole spectrum of aids. I am, Kate, and we are so happy to have you back this week or for the first time.
- [01:08]
Charlie Gibson
We are indeed. We are delighted to be in concert this week with the Good Morning America Book Club. They have chosen. We have chosen the original Daughter written by Jemima Way Wei. The Good Morning America Book Club has such good taste that they've chosen the book that we wanted to feature this week.
- [01:27]
Kate Gibson
Yeah, no, absolutely. I feel like there are a lot of book clubs out there, so I almost feel like our listeners, we should say to our listeners, we know you have a choice of a lot of book clubs out there, but we highly recommend the Good Morning America Book Club. And we're so glad you flew with us today. It's a really. It's a book that opened my eyes. I have to admit that I am an American who I'm better than most, but I'm not as good as some. And sometimes when I look at the Far East, I have a tendency to paint the Far east with a big brush. You know, there's China, there's Japan. But in terms of Southeast Asia, this book taught me a lot about Singapore and Singaporean culture and Singaporean history. This is the story of a family in Singapore who find out about a grandfather that they thought was long dead. But it turns out that he was really. He disappeared because he was a polygamist. After the war, he found he. He had another family. And I guess it was common around the Time of the war for families who couldn't afford to raise all of their children, to hand off their children to another family member or another family who could potentially raise that child that had the financial means to do that. And this is a story of that and how the family does and does not make room for this new daughter. And what that does to the original daughter. Ah, see what I did there? And what that does to the original daughter who was up until that point an only child. And the way that it makes her whole but also tears her apart at the same time.
- [03:02]
Charlie Gibson
Yeah, I think most people's or many people's impression of Singapore probably comes from the movie Crazy Rich Asians. And by far, by far the population of Singapore, 6 million people in a very tiny city state, lives in far more cramped quarters. This family lives in very cramped quarters. Genevieve is the original daughter, the only daughter. And then all of a sudden, Aaron comes on the scene. The family agreeing to raise Aaron because the family that they didn't know about can't do it. So Aaron shows up on the scene and all of a sudden Genevieve, the only daughter, the original daughter, finds herself displaced and, and leads. That leads to a lot of tension. You know, stories about tensions between siblings, and these are not biological siblings, but they're in effect forced to be sisters. The stories of that kind of conflict between siblings goes all the way back to Cain and Abel in the Bible. You know, you can think about in the modern day Little Women, the Lion.
- [04:10]
Kate Gibson
King, the Godfather, I mean, you name it. There's all sorts of pop culture examples of that kind of rivalry. And yet this to me was wholly original and unexamined. And you're right, I think many of us think of Singapore as high fashion, high tech, shiny skyscrapers, and yet this really tells the story of an average family living in government housing. Although most families in Singapore live in government housing. Not only was I moved by this story, but it taught me about Singapore, about family dynamics, about and about jealousy and how complex an emotion jealousy can be.
- [04:54]
Charlie Gibson
Well, Genevieve, the original daughter, gets, gets surpassed by Aaron, the sister who shows up on the scene, and she's jealous. And it's really interesting. We get into this when we talk to Jemima about whether you side and sympathize with Genevieve, Jen, as she's called in the book, or whether you sympathize more with Aaron, the sister who comes on the scene. It's a really interesting dynamic and it creates the tension of the book. And a very, very readable book. I thought so. We salute the good Morning America Book Club for choosing the book that we like this week. And we salute you.
- [05:35]
Kate Gibson
We salute you for flying with us, for flying with the Good Morning America and Bookcase Book Club this month.
- [05:41]
Charlie Gibson
Yes. Well, you, you don't get frequent flyer miles for listening to the Bookcase with Kate. Why are we off on this show?
- [05:48]
Kate Gibson
I don't know. I don't know. I got it in my head. It's a thing.
- [05:50]
Charlie Gibson
You led me down this primrose lane. Anyway, here's our conversation with Jemima Way.
- [06:03]
Kate Gibson
Jemima Way, it is so wonderful to have you in the bookcase. I'm really excited that we're doing the GMA Book Club pick this month. I loved this book. I think Americans, and I'm going to make an overgeneralization about America here. I think Americans have a tendency to paint the Far east and Southeast Asia with the same brush. And so I'm wondering if you wouldn't start by painting a picture of Singapore.
- [06:26]
Jemima Way
So this book that I wrote, my debut, the Original Daughter, it's about two girls growing up in turn of the millennium Singapore. And it is a Singaporean story. It's not the Singaporean story. So I always want to start by saying that because I do think we have a really strong plurality of voice and one book cannot do everything. But in this book specifically, the version of Singapore that we see is a version that's very rapidly modernizing. I would say like 80 to 90% of Singaporeans live in government housing with this family, with this, you know, two parents, an only child at 8 years old, a terrorizing grandmother, and a secret family who one day, you know, shows up and is like, we exist, we are here. The grandfather that you thought was dead was not dead. He was like a bigger miss and had an affair across the border. We have too many kids now. And here, help us with this kid. And this is not something that's uncommon in my parents generation. A lot of kids were swapped and given away. And so this family now has to figure out how to navigate around having a sudden daughter enter this family. I think this version of Singapore is one that's extremely communal. There's a lot of gossiping, there's a lot of community, you know, like chit chat to both like the joy and detriment of the characters. There is a sense of like everybody knowing everybody. There is no 7 degrees of separation in Singapore. It's like 3 degrees. Everybody's mother knows everybody's mother. And it's a city state, you know, the Singapore that I think many people are familiar with is the Singapore of glamour, the Singapore of, you know, extreme technology, extreme research and development, extreme glitz and wealth. And that is not an untrue version of Singapore. That is a version of Singapore that is like that. But for the lived reality of many Singaporeans, it's not like that. And I was really hoping to capture some of that in this book that I was writing.
- [08:18]
Charlie Gibson
I'm amazed at that statistic. 80% of Singaporeans live in government housing.
- [08:24]
Jemima Way
Yeah. So, you know, what is interesting for me working on this book is trying to figure out how to contextualize, help the reader, an international reader, understand that our relationship to things that are viewed differently elsewhere. So I know that internationally saying, oh, I live in government housing gives a certain impression. But in Singapore, all land is owned by the government. And so you don't really ever buy a house. You lease a house from the government for 99 years. And so we have limited space. And that is just the way they have structured it. So to live in, say, a private house with, you know, a short house where nothing is built above you, that is a real privilege and that is a real mark of wealth. You know, you stay in a. Is a one floor house. What are you doing all the airspace above you? And another thing that I think I had to really put forth in this novel is that private school and public school is totally flipped in the way we view it in Singapore. I know in the States or in many countries, going to private school is seen as the better option or the more prestigious option. But in Singapore, our public education is so strong, you would only go to private school if you couldn't get into a public school. There is a little bit of stigma that comes with that too. People are like, oh, you had to pay to go to school because you couldn't make it into one of the extremely prestigious public schools. So I think having to write this book and then not break out and have a footnote like, hey, this is how it is in a different country. But to have to contextualize it in the text moving forward, bringing the reader through, understanding what a world that's totally different from the other, different rules, different structures looks like was a really fun challenge. While writing this book, I read in.
- [10:00]
Kate Gibson
Your acknowledgments that this book took almost a decade to write. Why?
- [10:05]
Jemima Way
I started my book in my early to mid-20s. And I think that at that age I maybe wasn't. This is my debut. I had to figure out first and foremost how to write a book. I had to figure out how to really how to tell the story. I wanted to tell you. I know that this is an ambitious book. You know, there's a lot of things that it encompasses and wants to deal with and wants to talk about. And honestly, in my early to mid-30s, I wasn't a good writer. You know, I just had to become. I had to teach myself how to be a writer. And so I would write all these stories or work on this book. And everything I was working on, I think was just getting away, getting a way of teaching myself how to write better and better every single year. And maybe at that age, I just didn't have the ability to meet the vision of this book.
- [10:51]
Charlie Gibson
You've set up a very singular tension, estrangement between two women who think of themselves as sisters. Did you want us readers to sympathize more with one or the other?
- [11:04]
Jemima Way
I did not. I felt like as I was working on this book, my early readers, the way that they related to one or the other character, I think said more about the readers than it did about the characters. And one question I kept thinking about while writing this book is what frictions can love endure? So I think that tension is more interesting to me, especially when a reader comes to it. Their responses tend to really be reacting to that question, even if they don't articulate it in that sense. And in all the discussions I've had with it, with all the people who have gotten on calls with me, everybody has such a different stance on which sister they empathize with more which. And I think it's really hard to be like this is we are utterly condemning one and elevating the other, because I think most people can see a bit of themselves or a bit of what they would do in that situation, even if they hate their own decisions.
- [12:00]
Kate Gibson
I'm surprised I loved this novel as much as I did because I usually feel like I have to fall in love with the narrator if there's a first person narrator. And I have to be honest, when I finished your book, and please listeners at home, this is a compulsively readable book. But when I was finished, I didn't know if I liked the narrator. And which is interesting because sometimes I think to myself, do I think about likability too much with female characters? And I don't think that's the case because I asked myself the same questions about, like, Nick Carraway or Humbert Humbert. But it seems to me your first novel out the Gate, you made an ambitious choice, which is to potentially pick a narrator that readers Aren't going to love. I mean, did you feel that that was risky when you wrote it?
- [12:41]
Jemima Way
Yeah, I was terrified writing this book. I think I knew what I was doing with a character who was frustrating. I wouldn't say she's unlikable because I feel deeply sympathetic to her. I do think that when I was working on it, because I was so conscious of the fact that the characters choices can be really frustrating, everything else that I was doing, I deployed every trick in my writer's arsenal to keep this book compulsively readable. You know, you read a book and you really just fall into it. And even if you don't totally love where the book is going or what the book is doing, in that moment, you just trust that you're in a story that is going somewhere that the writer knows. And recreating that sense of childhood wonder when reading was something that I was thinking about and trying to aim towards. And part of that reflected in the craft choices is the fact that this is in first person. It was in third person for the longest time when I was writing. But I really wanted the reader to be able to see Jen's blind spots where she herself could not. And I feel like the first person is really good for that.
- [13:45]
Charlie Gibson
You made reference to the fact that you think writing in the first person made it better, but why did you choose to do it in the first person? Why did you choose Jen to be the person who would be the narrator? And did you at some point write this in the third person, looking at both of them impersonally? Or did you from the outset decide that you would have a narrator and that it would be Jen?
- [14:10]
Jemima Way
It was in third person for the longest time. And yeah, I thought that, you know, I just thought, I love the third person. I feel like in the third person you can do so much with psychology, but because one character was making consistently difficult choices, you know, I was very conscious of the relationship with the reader. And I thought to myself, for the reader to read these choices and not walk away, I might need to situate them in this character's mind so that you are following the character as they process their choices, even if you don't agree with those choices. So you can see the inner workings of them processing the process, if that makes sense. And the reason why I picked Gen for that one reason is because of the choices she was making in the book that really drive the way forward. But I think another reason is because a big thing in the book that I was working on is how deeply can we really know the people that we love, we can feel extremely close to somebody, especially at a young age where this book starts. The girls, their most intimate, most intense relationship is with each other. And you can really feel a sense of like, over identification or melding, where you feel like you're almost like you're so close, you're almost the same person, but of course you're not the same person. And it can be a real shock to come up against the unknowns in those that we love. And I think confronting what that does to your worst instincts or your petty, competitive self, the version of yourself you don't want to be, is very interesting to me as narrative tension.
- [15:40]
Charlie Gibson
They are two young women growing up in the same family, Jen and Erin, and you learn right away they are estranged. And Aaron has done something so heinous in Jen's eyes that it has led to this pretty much permanent separation. What Aaron did, we didn't. We don't find out until late in the book. And that is obviously one of the central tensions of the book. And I'm not going to do any spoilers, but Aaron has been incredibly successful. Jen has not, to your mind. And as I say, no spoilers here. Was what she did so heinous as to cause this split or is Jen just jealous?
- [16:22]
Jemima Way
You know, depending on whether you ask me on a Tuesday or a Wednesday, my answer keeps changing because I totally understand why Erin did what she did. I can see it and I think Jen can see it as well, which is why she had to be so brutal with her amputation. Because if she allowed herself to understand or really sit down and try and empathise with her sister, she would feel like she has lost something that's very important to her. And so I think at the point of split, the two of them have very different approaches to love. Aaron is somebody for whom being loved unconditionally is so important that she sometimes risks self abandonment. And I think that is her central tension, navigating her relationship to love. And I think that I say this with the greatest love for Erin possible, but I think she's a bit of a people pleaser for the people in her life. Yet Gen, on the other hand, I think views love as like a bit of a shackle. She has made these choices, she has chosen her chains, as it were, but she's constantly trying to individualize within this choice. She's constantly trying to be her own person and she really finds it very difficult to understand how you can do that while remaining, while navigating extreme intimacy. With the people in your life. And so at certain point in the book, you realize that the choices she's making is that it's like this desperation to try and maintain or hold on to something that only she has. She wants to be a full individual.
- [17:58]
Charlie Gibson
We keep referring to them as sisters. They're not biological sisters. And as you point out, it is not uncommon in Singapore that a family will be asked to take a distant relative in because the other family can't afford to raise them all. So Aaron comes to this as a sort of an outsider to the family. Did you, at any point as you're writing this, contemplate making them biological sisters? Or did you think it was always key to have Aaron as an outsider to the family?
- [18:30]
Jemima Way
No, they were never biological sisters. For the longest time since I started working on this book, I had been toying with the idea of a returned sibling or a given away sibling. So, you know, at some point, Erin was a brother. That was like the big change. And that feels crazy right now because that would totally transform the book. And I spent a long time in that rabbit hole. What would it be like to suddenly have a brother? No, I think for me it was really important that it was a status quo. And that status quo is suddenly switched at a young age by the arrival of a new sibling that you are trying really hard to love and that you do love, but that you may not have models for because it is less common in my generation. It is more common in the previous generation for families to take in distant relatives, but people don't talk about it very much.
- [19:17]
Charlie Gibson
You're writing your first novel. You mention in the acknowledgments you attended a number of writers conferences and writers workshops, and yet you didn't show it to anybody. How did you have the confidence, maybe even the temerity, to know, hey, I'm on the right track now? I think this is going to be really good.
- [19:37]
Jemima Way
Didn't show the full book to anybody, but I would workshop the opening chapters, things like that. It's just, you know, workshop is challenging because you are workshopping 20 to 30 pages and it's really difficult to give comments on a novel excerpt because you only get a first read one time. After that, when somebody else reads your book a second time, a third time, it's, you know, they already have preconceived notions of previous versions sitting in your head. So for me, I really wanted to wait for that first read to really come true. So it's not that nobody read my novel from start to End, it's that for nine years, nobody did. And then at the end of the ninth year, I was like, okay, now somebody has to read it. So then I was at the Stagnant at that time. And the Stagnant is this wonderful, wonderful program in California hosted by Stanford University. I was like, guys, I'm working on a novel. I'm just going to let you know, a novel is coming your way. It's going to be about 300 pages, and this is my workshop date. I'll send it in a few weeks before. So everybody at the Stagnant read a full draft. That was the first time anybody had ever read a full draft, including my husband. He had not read it yet. And then. So that was very scary for me, because, true, I could have worked on this for nine years. They could then read it and be like, it's incoherent. It makes no sense. And prior to that moment, the novel is Schrodinger's novel, right? Like, it exists and doesn't exist. When I was workshopping my novel, I was so nervous that I was shaking due to low blood sugar, and one of the other stagnants had to cram pizza in my mouth. She was like, eat something. Have a piece of bacon. You're shaking. And so I had to, you know, it was, like, a really emotional experience for me, and it went really well. And that was when I was like, okay, I think I can show it to my husband because I would hate to be working on this book for so long. And I finally show it to my life partner, and they're like, I don't really like your book. Thankfully, that did not happen.
- [21:28]
Charlie Gibson
As we talk, you're a few days from publication as this podcast will air. It's a few days after publication. Are you nervous? Do you need some bacon?
- [21:39]
Jemima Way
No. You know, people keep asking me that, but the hard part was writing a novel. I just, like, I feel really ready to meet her out in the world. I feel like everything I've done has been contained within the two covers. And any way I feel or anybody's feelings about it is not going to empirically change a single word in the book. And so it is what it is. This is the book I've written. If I could have written a better book, I would have. I couldn't, so I didn't. So, you know, that's what it is. And so I just kind of feel like this is the situation, and I'm really excited for her to be out and to have to continue to have great conversations with people. And I also feel excited to get back to writing my next book.
- [22:22]
Charlie Gibson
So Jemima Way, thank you ever so much for joining us. In the bookcase. We're gonna ask you to stand by and we'll ask you some rapid fire questions. The new McCrispy Strip is here. Dip approved by Ketchup Tangy Barbecue Honey Mustard honey mustard Sprite, McFlurry Big Mac sauce Double Dipped in Buffalo and Ranch More Ranch and creamy chees chili McCrispy strip dip now at McDonald's.
- [22:51]
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- [22:54]
Kate Gibson
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- [23:10]
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- [23:16]
Kate Gibson
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- [23:21]
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- [23:57]
Kate Gibson
Rapid fire questions for Jemima Way Habits you developed writing this book that you want to keep.
- [24:03]
Jemima Way
Ah, post its. I put post its of everything on my wall and I love them. They're so colorful. They make me feel good keeping them.
- [24:11]
Kate Gibson
Habits you developed writing this book that you're going to change with the next one.
- [24:14]
Jemima Way
One thing I developed while working on this book was a fitness habit. I really started lifting weights and going boxing because writing is physically tiring. If you're sitting at a desk for a long time, it's bad for your back. And I started getting lower back pain and I was like what is this? So my advice to writers who are doing this very seriously is go lift weights. And I do want to keep doing that.
- [24:34]
Kate Gibson
Heck yeah.
- [24:35]
Jemima Way
A habit that I developed kind of don't want to do anymore is I feel like I was really, really obsessed with this book. You know, every single time I went out for dinner with my friends, I would just be like, and then my character did this and they'll be like okay. And I really reorganized my life around writing this book. I moved to the states, I put a lot of things on hold. I left my career. I spend a lot of time away from my family because I'm in the States and I want to spend more time with them. I want to be more present in my relationships that are so important to me.
- [25:09]
Charlie Gibson
What's your favorite novel of all time?
- [25:12]
Jemima Way
How can you ask a writer what their favorite novel of all time is? Because now you're gonna have to keep going. Keep this podcast going for the next hour while I tell you all about all these novels. The one that comes to top of mind is I reread Giovanni's Room by James Baldwin every year. I really love that book. And, you know, I just read Mrs. Caliban by Rachel Ingalls, which was out of print for a long time, just got brought back into print. I think it's fabulous. That's like a very recent favourite. Not of all time. I'm going to just keep going because you haven't cut me off yet. I really love Silver Sparrow by Tayari Jones, which is also about sisters. I love the Dutch House. There's this book that many people have not read because it's published in Singapore, but it's. A sociologist wrote this collection of essays called this Is what Inequality Looks like and it's about class in Singapore. I love that book. I think that book is amazing and everybody should go out and read it because even though it is specifically about Singapore, it's so well written, I think it's applicable to everybody. I also love Tash Ohr's latest book, the south, which I think is coming out in the US later this month. I have loved everything Tash has ever written. Tash Oy is a Malaysian writer and meeting him in a master class when I was in Singapore really changed things for me because I could then visualize what it was like for someone who looked like me to publish internationally and to make a life out of writing.
- [26:40]
Charlie Gibson
Oh, okay, enough, enough. I opened a Pandora.
- [26:47]
Jemima Way
I told you.
- [26:48]
Charlie Gibson
Ye Jemima. Can you read more than 20 pages in bed before falling asleep or turning off the light?
- [26:55]
Jemima Way
Yeah. I have the opposite problem. I start reading and I don't stop. And then it's 4am Even though I said. I said I was going to bed at 11.
- [27:04]
Kate Gibson
Good, good.
- [27:05]
Charlie Gibson
And finally, the most important piece of advice you've ever gotten.
- [27:10]
Jemima Way
Oh, there's so many good pieces of advice that have been handed to me. I think one that was really important to me as I was struggling to finish this book was by my friend Rachel Hing, who is also a fabulous novelist. And this was advice her advisor, Elizabeth McBraggin gave her, which was nobody ever read a good book and thought to themselves, I wish this came out last year. So there is literally no rush. The book takes the time it takes.
- [27:37]
Kate Gibson
Jemima Way and the original Daughter, the Good Morning America Book Club pick. We know you have your choice of book club books every month, and we want to thank you for choosing the Good Morning America Book Club this month. And we hope we brought you safely to your destination.
- [27:55]
Charlie Gibson
And be sure when opening the overhead compartment because some of the books may have shifted in flight.
- [28:02]
Kate Gibson
Oh, boy, it's been a long day, apparently.
- [28:05]
Charlie Gibson
So please be careful. Please be careful. Anyway, the the original daughter, did you find yourself citing more and understanding more? Genevieve?
- [28:19]
Kate Gibson
Yes, I did. I found myself sympathizing, honestly, more with Genevieve at the beginning of the book and Aaron by the end of the book. Jemima does, I think, a very good job of challenging you with that question. And it's interesting that you do feel forced to choose sides because in some ways there is no right and wrong. It's all gray area. The family doesn't do a great job of preparing the original daughter for the arrival of the new one. You know, there's not a lot of, like, let's all sit down and talk about the effects this is going to have on all of our lives and our emotions. So, you know, Jen is forced to fend for herself. But I think one of the things Jemima does so well is because she keeps what has estranged them secret for so long that you find yourself thinking, I wonder what, you know, was it so bad? Was it so bad? Was it worth all of this? And so I think by the time you get to the conflict, you're already sort of set up to pick a side because you've imagined what the conflict could be and how big it could be. Does that make sense?
- [29:22]
Charlie Gibson
Sure. And she tells you right on page one that they are estranged, that there's conflict, but you don't know what caused the estrangement. You just know it existed. And you know that one of these sisters, I put sisters in quote because it's a sort of four sisterhood. But you know. Right. Right as you go along, that one of these sisters, Aaron, has been very successful and the other sister, Genevieve, has not. Anyway, we do want to thank Jemima Way, the original daughter, for joining us. Next week we're going to talk to one of my favorite authors. Richard Russo has written such wonderful, wonderful books about upstate New York and the mill town from which he came. And he has written a series of essays. And I'm very worried this book is going to get lost because people don't tend to read essays. But the book is entitled Life and Art, and both Katie and I were very struck by the essays.
- [30:15]
Kate Gibson
Yeah, you and I are not amongst the population that poo poos the essay. We love Mary Laura Philpott. We love Jenny Lawson. If you can write an essay that keeps me compelled and held by whether it's your argument or your point or the picture you're trying to paint, then I think that you are a very talented writer. And this book held me enthralled. So I am not pooh pooh the essay. And this is a very good one. And I would have loved to. I mean, look, if Richard Russo had given us 250 pages on the Anatomy of the Bedbug, I still probably would have read it. But the fact that it is this wonderful book of essays, yes, they might get lost, but it's an opportunity to talk to Richard Russo about his craft and what makes a good essay. Give it a chance, folks, because there are some really good essays in this book. Get yourself a copy of this book and see if you can't put away a few pages before you listen to our conversation. Because this is, again, one of those great master classes in writing.
- [31:09]
Charlie Gibson
Life and Art is the name of the book. The essays, seven of them are about life. Five of them, six of them, I think, are about art.
- [31:17]
Kate Gibson
The essays are about both life and art.
- [31:19]
Charlie Gibson
Well, that's the name of the book. It's a good clue. Anyway. Anyway, we'll make you aware of the people who make this podcast possible. And then a coda from Jemima Way.
- [31:34]
Kate Gibson
The Book Case with Keith and Charlie Gibson is a production of ABC Audio and Good Morning America. It is edited by Tom Butler of TKO Productions. Our executive producer is Simone Swink. We want to make mention of Amanda McMaster, Sabrina Kohlberg, Arielle Chester at Good Morning America, and Josh Cohan from ABC Audio. Follow the bookcase wherever you get your podcast and be sure to listen, rate and review. If you'd like to find any of the books mentioned in this episode, we have them linked in the episode Description.
- [32:02]
Jemima Way
I'm so grateful to this book because I feel like finishing it has gifted me this sense of immense freedom and a new relationship to my art. And I'm gonna take joy where I can have it because we live in a world that's kind of resistant to joy. And so if there's any, like, you know, emerging writer who's like, struggling, listening, listening to this, I really think take the wins where you can have it and find joy in sitting down at your work every single day.
- [32:33]
Sponsor
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- [32:42]
Jemima Way
With reliable service.
- [32:43]
Sponsor
Mrs. Moore is no longer her family's IT guru, leaving giving her more time to stream games into overtime.
- [32:48]
Charlie Gibson
Let's go.
- [32:49]
Sponsor
And young Mason Moore got more done quickly uploading HD product demos and video conferencing. Without freesight, the numbers look good.
- [32:56]
Jemima Way
Brad. You're on mute.
- [32:57]
Sponsor
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