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- [00:01]
Jessica Sofer
We're so done with new Year, new you. This year it's more you on Bumble. More of you shamelessly sending playlists, especially that one filled with show tunes. More of you finding Geminis because you know you always like them. More of you dating with intention because you know what you want. And you know what? We love that for you, someone else will too. Be more you this year and find them on Bumblebee. Foreign.
- [00:32]
Kate
Welcome to you bookcasers. We can see you out there. You know, you think this is a one way medium. You think that you can hear us. We can't see you, but we can.
- [00:41]
Charlie Gibson
Oh, my gosh.
- [00:42]
Kate
Actually we can't.
- [00:43]
Charlie Gibson
But isn't it nice when somebody can make a podcast intro just a little bit scary and just a little bit stalker, like, I'm Kate, I can't see you. I don't know where you live. You are safe at home. But welcome and happy Thursday to you.
- [00:57]
Kate
We do welcome you back. We have a very interesting program today. Number one, we're going to introduce a new feature to the Bookcase, which is Book Facts. I'm very interested in the business of books and the history of American reading. We're going to give you the first book fact today, which is who published the first novel in the United States. And we'll give you the answer at the end of the program. What was the novel and what year was it done? Anyway, we'll get to that. That's our book fact for today. But our book for today is this is a love story by a relatively new author, her second novel, Jessica Soffer. And it is a very, very touching and nuanced story of a marriage that has lasted 50 years.
- [01:37]
Charlie Gibson
Well, and I think as or we thought might be a bit of a stretch for us given the fact that neither one of us are big romance readers. All respect to the romance readers, but with a title like this as a love story, I'm like, ooh, if there's Fabio on the front ripping somebody's bodice, that's not for us. But that's not what it is at all. It really is the beautiful story of a couple sort of facing the end of 50 years of marriage. And the onus of the book is that the Jane and Abe. Abe is holding Jane's hand in her hospital room towards the end of her life and is essentially walking them through their life, through their love story, recounting the memories of the two of them together. And it's really, man, does she pull it off. It's beautiful. And Central Park Also, and New York, very important parts of Abe and Jane's love story as well.
- [02:27]
Kate
Yeah. I picked this book up with some trepidation. When you say this is a love story, I'm expecting something that's a little goopy, that's a little maudlin, that is going to try to play on my emotions. The book does bring out great emotions in me, but it's not so obvious. I mean, I remember. Well, I'm going back more than 50 years now, but remember Eric Siegel's book Love Story, which actually was the movie first, and then they made a book out of it, but that was the Ryan O'Neill and Ally McGraw movie, in which the tagline was love is never having to say you're sorry. Which I thought was always sort of bunk, because a 50 year marriage. Love, I think, is knowing how to say you are sorry.
- [03:05]
Charlie Gibson
Oh, I think it's about saying sorry over and over and over again. Verbally. Non. Verbally. Yeah.
- [03:11]
Kate
I think this is a love story is written in a very idiosyncratic style, which we're going to talk about a little later because you have to sort of get into the meter that Jessica develops. But as Kate says, this is mostly Abe sitting at Jane's bedside counting the events of their marriage. The thing he remembers, the things he hopes she might have remembered. Sometimes he gets a little smile or a blink or something from her, but for the most part, he's just talking to her and she can't respond.
- [03:37]
Charlie Gibson
Yes. No, it's really. It's a lovely book. And we were fascinated to talk to Jessica about it and what inspired her to do it and what inspired her to write it just this way. And I think both of us were surprised, before we get into the conversation really quickly, that this is a book that so beautifully recounts such a long love story. And Jessica herself is quite young.
- [03:58]
Kate
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. But as somebody who's been in, you know. Well, I've been married 57 years now to your mother. She gets it. Yeah, she does it marvelously so.
- [04:08]
Charlie Gibson
And my father has learned to say he's sorry. Sorry.
- [04:11]
Kate
Our conversation with Jessica Sofer, and then we're going to talk a little bit more about her technique here. It is foreign. Jessica Sofer, it's good to have you in the bookcase. We really appreciate your joining us. This is a love story. And I want to start with the title. It's a simple, declarative sentence. This is a love story. What was your thinking? Because it's not a simple romance like some of the romance novels. That are so popular these days, it's very nuanced. So why did you choose that simple declarative sentence?
- [04:44]
Jessica Sofer
So it started with these two characters, Abe and Jane, an artist and a writer who have a 50 year romance. And we witness in the book their romance from the very beginning until the very end. And I worked on that story between the two of them for many years and just kind of couldn't make it into a full fledged novel or even novella, though I tried. And at a certain point I had a friend who was a reader read it and she said, this is a love story, but it's only one part of the love story. And then very quickly the entire novel tripled in length, actually in three months, which is wild given how long the first part took me. I mean, many years. And it came to include their son's perspective, who has a very tricky relationship with love and believes his mother chose art over him. And then a young student, writing student, who gets in the middle of Jane and Abe's relationship. And then the kind of untraditional character of Central park, which is a character in the novel nonetheless. And so it became this love story that was wide angle lensed and comprehensive in a lot of ways, but a love story nonetheless.
- [05:52]
Charlie Gibson
But the process of it fascinates me. So you start by writing the love story of Abe and Jane. Now, do you start knowing right away? Because the majority of the book is written in some ways, it's almost a love letter from Abe to Jane with the two of them remembering their lives together. Did you write their love story in a linear order in the third person, and then say, no, I gotta screw all this up. This has to be in a different format and this has to be a command format. I'm just interested as to how the different parts of the novel came together and when.
- [06:27]
Jessica Sofer
Well, to go really far back, when I was in my MFA program, I studied with Nathan Englander, who is a gift to the world, and had us do this exercise where we wrote a short story in which something happened constantly. And so I took the prompt very literally and had something happen in every sentence to forward the life of a woman told from the perspective of her husband. And that eventually that exercise became a short story that was very small. It was, I guess, micro fiction that was published in Granta and was the first sort of moment in my career. And for a long time, I think I tried to write that story into a novel and get back to that. Because there was something so satisfying about telling the entire life of a person from start to finish in the beginning of the book to the end of the book. And it took me a long time, and I took a very circuitous route. But that is the kernel of it.
- [07:24]
Charlie Gibson
But when did you realize that you needed. Because you're right, there's this third person perspective in the book. There are chapters from Max's point of view. And then there's. There are chapters from Alice's point of view. Who's the woman Abe almost has an affair with? I mean, did you complete the story and go, boy, I don't think this story is complete without putting in their perspectives. When did they become a part of the narrative?
- [07:49]
Jessica Sofer
In a way, yes. I mean, I think that at a certain point. I started thinking about the ways in which no love story exists in a vacuum. Every love story is dependent and challenged and complicated. And in some. Some cases, supported by other relationships. And so to take this very sort of slight, very myopic and insular story of just Abe and Jane. And to make it feel satisfying to myself, to the reader for the emotional experience, I felt like I had to flesh it out in exactly that way. I suppose there could have been other characters who had perspectives. The best friend who comes in and out, the gallerist who comes in and out. But those felt like the critical voices necessary to kind of support an actress color to the nuclear story of Abe and Jane.
- [08:36]
Kate
I'm fascinated to hear you say I started in the MFA program writing where something had to happen every sentence. That's a big burden, it seems to me. But you employ a technique in this book that I appreciate. Rather than a novel of straight narrative. For most of the book, you write a compendium of paragraphs, most of which stand alone. And the accumulation of them all evolved into a plot. I made a comment a couple of weeks ago when we were talking to Elizabeth Strout. That she uses that technique in some of her books. And I think it's a very interesting technique. You use it in this book for most of the book. Does that go back to your MFA program, or is that just a technique that comes naturally?
- [09:18]
Jessica Sofer
Such a joy to be in a sentence with Elizabeth Strout in any form. I would say that. So my MFA was in fiction, But I come from a poetry background. I studied poetry for a long time. I thought that I would be a poet at a certain point. And then I thought I would be a short story writer. And now as it turns out, I seem to be a novelist so far. But I do lean on the form of poetry. I find there's something really satisfying, really gratifying about writing structurally and in a way that deals with format, that has a relationship with format. I think it's satisfying for the reader, and it's also satisfying, at least for me, to write. And I think also it feels like the natural way that Abe would tell this story. He's telling the story at the end of his wife's life. He's memorializing her in a way. He's dealing with all kinds of grief and feelings of trauma and loss. And I think it felt like the way he would naturally get it out.
- [10:15]
Charlie Gibson
You write the book from several different perspectives. And I found myself writing as I read through Abe's recounting of his and Jane's love story, the perspective we get into Mac's life, Alice's perspective on Jane and Abe's love story. And I found myself wondering, how reliable are these narrators?
- [10:32]
Jessica Sofer
Great question. Who knows? Who knows? They tell their story as. As one does, and they all. And yeah, Yes.
- [10:45]
Charlie Gibson
I even found myself wondering at some point, like when I started Alice's perspective. I remember thinking to myself, is this Alice's perspective, or is this Abe picturing what Alice's perspective would have been?
- [10:58]
Jessica Sofer
Well, it's tricky. I mean, there's no gotcha moment in this book. But I will say Abe is a writer, and so everything is only his perspective and only the way that he writes it. That's as far as we can go and as far as he can go. And in the same breath, Alice is also a writer. She's a young writing student, which, to a certain degree, creates even more romanticism, even more naivete, even more obsession with language and saying the right thing rather than the right thing actually being true.
- [11:26]
Kate
You tell me right off the bat, really, in the first couple of pages, that Jane is dying, that she has cancer, that after 50 years, it's about to come to an end. And over, if my count is correct, because I did go back and count over. 40% of your chapters consist of Abe talking to Jane as she lies, dying. And he tells us she can't hear much of what he's saying, and she can't respond. But I love reading those chapters. You get a real sense of their relationship at a granular level. The times, the events, the emotions that made them fall in love and stay in love. It must have taken a long time to conjure up all those things that were in Abe's memory of their marriage. Did it?
- [12:07]
Jessica Sofer
It did. It did take a long time. But that was also the joy of the book. I Mean, I realize how much I enjoy really detailed writing. It's where I have struggled with plot, which is why that exercise that I did in my MFA that eventually led to that story was so exciting for me and so enlightening for me, because I can work on the granular level for the rest of my life is tricky, because things need to happen in a book. And that's also why the Central park sections were so energizing for me, because there are full sections that are dedicated to Central park, and there are hundreds, literally hundreds of characters that come in and out of those sections at different times in their lives to do different things and to kind of embody love, to embody hate and the opposite of love, let's say. And I loved writing those sections because I just got to imagine and imagine and imagine. I didn't have to imagine the rest of those people's lives, but I did have to imagine them in a moment, in a very precise and very tangible moment, and write that down.
- [13:08]
Charlie Gibson
When I read the chapter, this is a love story, and you start to realize that the majority of the book is gonna be Abe walking Jane back through their epic love story. I thought to myself, this is gonna be sort of idealized. But then you get to Jane as a mom, and you start to realize that maybe she wasn't meant to be a mom and that you don't really pull any punches.
- [13:31]
Kate
Not only does she question whether she should be a mom at all and whether or not that won't get sublimated to her art, she worries about that. But she has postpartum depression as well, which I thought was a really interesting additional part of her character and her relationship to Max, her son. Again, a complex relationship to write.
- [13:50]
Jessica Sofer
I think the thing about Jane is that she thought she was going to be a good mother. She thought she. Or I mean, I think to a certain degree she is a good mother, but I think she thought she was going to be a natural mother. And I think for so many mothers, it's deeply surprising to find that the biology doesn't necessarily work that way. The hormones don't necessarily work that way. And for a woman who is wildly creative, deeply an artist to her core, and sees the world according to art, so much gets taken away from her by the presence of this baby who needs everything. And that's so compromising for her on the cellular level. And she imagines that she'll never come back from that. And I don't think that that creates a character that a hard time garnering sympathy for. I Think it's sort of the opposite, because I think it's something that so many mothers deal with. You know, I think every mother has a passion, whether that be cooking or cleaning or being a visual artist. And we all have moments where we say, this is tricky, because I love these two things, and they take away from one another in a way that compromises them both.
- [14:54]
Kate
And this is a love story not only between Jane and Abe, but it's also a love story between the two of them and the park itself. And the park narrates part of the book. It's a love story. And the park is very observant of all who embrace it, for all those who use it for good, for all those who use it for solace, for all those who use it for ill. And right off the bat, one of the sentences that made me realize I'm going to be emotionally touched by this book. Central park is talking about some of the people who use the park. And says the cardiac surgeon who writes a love letter to her husband on the same bench near the center fountain every Friday. She's in green scrubs and clogs. She couldn't save him. But in her letters, she imagines that she can and that they have shrimp lo mein on the couch again. And I thought, oh, I'm gonna be in trouble in this book. Are you. Do you have a favorite part of Central park? And are you a park lover?
- [15:44]
Jessica Sofer
I'm a park lover. I grew up very close to Central Park. We lived in a tiny apartment. And so Central park was really kind of the backdrop of my life, my backyard. It feels like a witness to my life. I mean, my father was an artist, and he spent many hours just sitting in that park and observing. And so. So did I, by default. I feel like I learned so much about humanity in that park, about love in that park. And I think for a lot of people, there's a place that feels that way to them, that they return to again and again, either actually or in mind and heart. That kind of slows them down and allows them to see themselves and allows them to see the world in a different way. And for me, it's certainly that park. For the characters in the book, it's the park.
- [16:28]
Kate
And it is one of the joys, the delights, and the strengths of New York City. If the park weren't there, New York would be a totally different place. It is a gift to everybody, not only to New Yorkers, but to everybody who visits the city. When I put this down, as a reader, do I Come out very encouraged about 50 year marriages. Do I come out worried for Abe, that he's going to be okay now that Jane is dying? What do I come away with?
- [16:57]
Jessica Sofer
I don't know. What do you come away with?
- [17:03]
Kate
No fair, Jessica. It's a problem I always had on Good Morning America. When the guest turns around and asks me a question. I think, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
- [17:12]
Charlie Gibson
That's not.
- [17:13]
Kate
That's not your role, that's mine.
- [17:18]
Jessica Sofer
I actually genuinely would like to know your response to that. But I can go first, which is that, yes, I think everyone is going to be as okay as anybody can be at any particular time. I think that Abe is. He is an older man. He is coming to the end of his life. He has lost his wife. Will he be okay? He'll be as okay as any person can be. And I think the reason that I go to literature is for to feel less alone in the world, to feel hopeful, because I can see myself on the page and see the experience, the unflinching experience of life on the page and feel like I'm not the only one who feels the way that I do. And so I think it's less about whether or not these characters will be okay and more about whether or not you will be okay. Knowing that life is hard and that love is hard, but that there is immense beauty and intimacy and compassion. And even in those Central park pages, which, you know, don't get very close to any characters in particular, I hope that they offer hope again and again and again. There's these two basset hounds that come in and out of Central Park, Dolly and Diller. And they have this love affair. And eventually, I mean, this is not a great spoiler alert that's going to ruin anything, but eventually they die as dogs do after a not terribly long period of time. And to me, that they're very hopeful. They have this beautiful life in Central park and everybody loves them and they're. They're part of the landscape of the park. They're part of the heart of the park. So I hope it feels uplifting.
- [18:47]
Kate
The reason I asked was right at the end of the book, you have Jane coming out of the doctor's office where she has been diagnosed and she is thinking over everything. She's back in the park and one of the sentences as she's reflecting, perhaps disappointment is as insidious a chemical as the cancer cells themselves. And I thought she shouldn't be disappointed. I don't want her disappointed. I want her to feel that she's had something so complete in those 50 years. Nice talking to you. It's been a lovely conversation, and I really appreciate it. I worried when I picked up the book as Kate and I talked about that it would be a little creek, that it would be a little goopy, and it was anything but.
- [19:30]
Charlie Gibson
Yeah. He called me up and he said, I'm in love with the love story.
- [19:33]
Kate
Yeah. Yeah.
- [19:34]
Jessica Sofer
Oh, what an honor to talk to you both. Thank you so much.
- [19:37]
Kate
Thank you.
- [19:38]
Charlie Gibson
Thank you.
- [19:44]
Kate
So I talked about the technique that she uses in this. And you mentioned this is basically Abe talking to her. But it's in. In sort of disjointed paragraphs. As thoughts occur to him, he says, do you remember this or do you remember that? And all those paragraphs, when you add them up, really turn into a plot. The same way. I think Elizabeth Strout does it so well in the Lucy Barton books. This is Lucy Barton, Lucy by the Sea. Tell me everything. A plot emerges when you go through the various paragraphs. I've just picked out a couple at random that I thought were really interesting. And to give you an example of it. But it's many, many pages of this. She writes, this is Abe talking to Jane on her deathbed. You remember, that was around the time on East 88th street, visiting an old friend. I was mugged in broad daylight. You remember, they used a pipe on my knees. You remember, I didn't care about the wallet, the cards, the money. Only the notes from you, the Chinese fortunes and the coffee card, which was one away from a free cappuccino, I'd said. And you remember, it was about then, too, that the cancer came back. It was a shock. It was inevitable. You remember you'd just gotten your AARP card in the mail and how we joked about that. What choice did we have? I remember you making everything kinder, everyone softer, better, always. It's just nice.
- [20:59]
Charlie Gibson
It's just nice.
- [20:59]
Kate
Yeah.
- [20:59]
Charlie Gibson
And I think it's beautifully written because I think in some ways that is how memory works. We start with the small. Do you remember you could smell Mom's cookies in the background when we found out that you were sick? You start at the macro and then you go. And then you remember. That was the time we found out about this. And, oh, my gosh, you always made everything brighter and more beautiful. I mean, to me, this was. You're right. She makes incredible use of the negative space. It's a real stream of consciousness novel where you sort of put together a story from what is said and what isn't. Said. But again, when I picked it up, I thought, oh, this is gonna be a novel that's full of technique. And yet I come back to that conversation we had with Kaveh Akbar, which is the writer talented enough to make me forget about the technique? And the answer is yes. Boy, did I ever. I just got on Abe and Jane's ride and fell in love with their characters and fell in love with their story and forgot about whether or not I thought Jessica may or may not have been pulling off the technique she was trying. And again, that speaks to her talent.
- [22:01]
Kate
Kaveh Akbar, who you mentioned last year, wrote Martyr Kaveh Akbar, having a background. Well, he's a poet. He's a published poet and this was his first novel. And even Jessica told us, I think that she has dabbled a lot in poetry, that her technique is so poetry related. And I think that that's very true. Also, you mentioned that Central park is such a critical narrator narrates some of the chapters of this book because Central park is, if you'll pardon the pun, a central part of their love affair.
- [22:28]
Charlie Gibson
Yeah, it's not just the spine of the book, it's also the intermezzo, sort of. When Jessica wants to switch maybe from Abe and Jane's love story to telling the story of the sun, she uses a chapter from the park because the park is the spine of the book. And one of my favorite is just the opening of the book. And she had me at hello. It starts. Some people come to the park because they want to fall in love for the first time. The 12th time, the final time. Some have been used, widowed or bored stiff. The park has a beating heart and adagio, a dreamy parenthesis. Abe and James come after chemo and because they never know when it might be the last time, there are six bottles of pills, two notarized wills and a nebulizer and a tote between them. Jane can only walk a few steps without needing to rest. But you couldn't tell that from the serene composure on her face. The park is where the most important moments of their lives have taken place. The park is their home away. Homing device, pen pal, fifth season.
- [23:27]
Kate
And then the next paragraph moves on to something different. Yeah, it's a wonderful, wonderful technique. Anyway, we're going to take a break. Again, the book is Jessica Sofer. This is a love story. And we're gonna have some rapid fire questions for Jessica and then. And then we will answer the book fact for the week. In the mood for something crunchy. Saucy and boneless. Try Jack's New Crispy Boneless Wings from Jack in the Box. Get them with Honey Garlic Sriracha or Smoke Show Smoky Barbecue Sauce. Enjoy so much more.
- [24:11]
Charlie Gibson
This episode is brought to you by Amazon. Sometimes the most painful part of getting sick is the getting better part.
- [24:17]
Jessica Sofer
Waiting on hold for an appointment, Sitting.
- [24:19]
Charlie Gibson
In crowded waiting rooms, Standing in line at the pharmacy. That's painful. Amazon One Medical and Amazon Pharmacy remove.
- [24:25]
Jessica Sofer
Those painful parts of getting better with things like 247 virtual visits and prescriptions.
- [24:30]
Charlie Gibson
Delivered to your door. Thanks to Amazon Pharmacy and Amazon One Medical Healthcare just got less painful.
- [24:39]
Kate
Since you're new to HR Block, we'll look at your returns from the last three years for any money your last guy might have missed for free.
- [24:45]
Charlie Gibson
I could get money back from last year.
- [24:47]
Kate
You could. We'll find any mistakes.
- [24:49]
Charlie Gibson
Could have really used that two years ago when I dated that mistake for five months. Don't leave money on the table. Switch to H and R Block and get a free Second look review. Second look is included at no additional cost with the purchase of tax preparation. Results vary. All tax situations are different. Fees apply if you have us file an amended return. Rapid Fire Questions for Jessica so for your favorite part of Central Park, Strawberry Fields. Why?
- [25:19]
Jessica Sofer
It's where I grew up. It's where I spent the most time. I did cartwheels there. I had birthday parties there. I wrote there in a journal for many years. That was kind of my spot.
- [25:29]
Kate
What's the greatest misimpression that people have about New York and Central park itself?
- [25:34]
Jessica Sofer
Oh, what a question. I think that people feel like Central park is larger than it is. But the more time I spend there, the more it feels very, I don't know, it feels very approachable. Like it's, it's in such a large city and in such a sprawling city. But the park itself, considering is. Is pretty small. And so I, I hope that people feel that they can go into the park and enjoy it and really kind of like get comfy there.
- [26:02]
Kate
One of the most wonderful things in the world is after a fresh snowstorm to walk through Central park and you have it to yourself. And it is white, it is pristine, it is beautiful. You can't believe you're in the middle of one of the biggest cities in the world. And New York, for all of its hustle, all of its bustle, all of its rudeness, there is a serenity about Central park in a fresh snow that is life affirming.
- [26:27]
Jessica Sofer
My parents used to wake me up in the middle of the night for snows. To go see the snow in Central Park. Which is interesting because my mother was a true crime writer. She's now a novel writer, but she was a true crime writer, and she wrote about a murder in Central Park. So it was interesting that they would schlep me to the park in the middle of the night, despite her knowledge of what went on in the park.
- [26:46]
Kate
But writer, that's been the most influential on the work of Jessica Sofer.
- [26:52]
Jessica Sofer
Oh, you know, it changes Virginia Woolf, probably. I would say Virginia Woolf, the way that she deals with time, with melancholy, with nostalgia. But, you know, that changes so often. I find that with each. Every time I write, I bring a book to the table with me, and that becomes a formidable book. So it depends really, I want to.
- [27:16]
Charlie Gibson
Follow up on that. So you have a book in mind when you're writing a book. And what was it for this one?
- [27:21]
Jessica Sofer
Gosh, it's. No one's ever asked me that, and I've never told. In terms of this book, it changed a lot. There was a lot of Michael Cunningham coming in and out. I mean, his, like, his glorification of New York felt important. And also there's, like a beauty in the sadness that I also adore about him and informed the book in a meaningful way.
- [27:44]
Kate
Just a gorgeous piece of writing. What gave you the effrontery to think that you could be a writer and make a living at it?
- [27:52]
Jessica Sofer
Maybe nobody telling me otherwise than I. A father who's an abstract, who was an abstract artist. He was a painter and a monumental sculptor. He was also a landlord to pay his bills. But his character, his essence was an artist and an artist of a. Really, to a great degree. I mean, he built enormous things. He had no qualms doing something that nobody thought was feasible. And my mother was a. Is a writer, and she worked. She was a grammarian. She worked at publishing houses. She worked in educational publishing in order to make ends meet. And so there was no part of me that felt like I couldn't do it. Not that I wouldn't also have to have a day job, which I have had until now, various ones. But there was a deep sense that if I committed to writing, I could do it. It just might. It might not look like a room of my own until later on.
- [28:44]
Kate
This book is about to be released. Are you nervous about it?
- [28:47]
Jessica Sofer
Equal parts thrilled and terrified.
- [28:50]
Charlie Gibson
Excellent.
- [28:51]
Kate
Equal parts. Equal parts. Which part?
- [28:54]
Jessica Sofer
Fully equal.
- [28:55]
Kate
Yeah, right this second. Which one? It predominates Thrilled.
- [28:58]
Jessica Sofer
You two are a joy to talk to. Let's do this all the time.
- [29:01]
Charlie Gibson
Oh, bless you.
- [29:02]
Kate
Okay. All right.
- [29:02]
Charlie Gibson
It's a pleasure.
- [29:03]
Jessica Sofer
Thank you so much.
- [29:07]
Charlie Gibson
The great Jessica Soffer. I can't wait until she rates another one. And I will pick that up too. But in the meantime, I highly recommend this is a love story. So I have not breathed or eaten or slept or anything. I have been sitting at the edge of my seat. Actually, I don't want to make fun of this because I remember when we first started this, we talked about sort of random facts we wanted to know and you even had a friend who was like, you know, it would be awesome is if you guys just told us book facts, like why books come out on Tuesdays, Are there more libraries or McDonald's. There's so many different ways to look at the state of reading in this country and in the world through trivia. So I am excited to know this. And just to reassure our listeners, I don't know all the answers. I am the ultimate book nerd. And of that question, I only know one third of the answer.
- [29:56]
Kate
So take heart, I talked to Evan Friss, who wrote the bookshop. What was the first novel printed in the United States and who printed it.
- [30:05]
Charlie Gibson
In 1742, Benjamin Franklin became the first American to print a novel, Samuel Richardson's Pamela. Compared to most other popular literature at the time, sermons and essays, Pamela was long and therefore quite expensive to produce. Mostly colonists didn't want to read novels.
- [30:26]
Kate
Either, and it would be decades before another unabridged novel was printed in the United States. Ah, yes, Ben Franklin was a crafty old entrepreneur. And actually I read Pamela years ago in college. It's an epistolary novel, letters back and forth, and I loved it actually. And then there was a parody put out of it many years later called Shyamala. But anyway, that's really getting deeply into it.
- [30:53]
Charlie Gibson
Oh my God, isn't he the perfect co host? Not only is her nerdy enough to know the answers to these questions, but he's nerdy enough to have read the book and the subsequent satire of the book many years later.
- [31:07]
Jessica Sofer
Wow.
- [31:08]
Kate
I mean, you should mention who we have next week because I think next week's gonna be really interesting.
- [31:12]
Charlie Gibson
I should. One of you wrote to us. We really do read those readers comments. One of you wrote to us and said, did you know Jeff Hobbs is coming out with a new book now. I love Jeff Hobbs. The Short and tragic Life of Robert Peace is one of my all time favorite books. I just think it's a beautiful piece of nonfiction and one of the best examples of embedded journalism I've ever read. And he's got a new one coming out called Seeking Shelter, which is the personal story of some folks in Los Angeles facing housing insecurity and homelessness. And I think it's a beautiful piece of embedded journalism. I think it's worth talking to him about why he's doing this now, some of the pitfalls of embedded journalism. I think he's a terrific writer, and this book was deeply affecting to me.
- [31:51]
Kate
He follows a family. Evelyn never get her last name and her six children. She's a single mom, and every single day is consumed with the issue, where are we going to sleep tonight? And sometimes they're sleeping in her car, she and the six kids. The driver's seat is the living room. The passenger seat is the dining room. The bench seat behind that is the playroom or something. And then way back is the tv.
- [32:16]
Charlie Gibson
Yeah, I mean, your heart breaks for you. I mean, this is a woman who is putting her children first. 150%.
- [32:21]
Kate
Yeah. Yeah.
- [32:22]
Charlie Gibson
She's trying to make those sleeping in the cars camp outs. You know, we're gonna have a campout tonight. And then once she gets them all settled and into bed and giggling and what have you, then she sits in the passenger seat and rocks back and forth and worries. That's when the worry of the mom begins. Without the. I mean, it's just. It's very powerful. I'm really looking forward to talking to him about his technique and why he does what he does.
- [32:44]
Kate
It's a subject that's been addressed before in other books, but it can't be addressed too often. And it's important that those of us who are so privileged are aware of what kind of things are going on every day in the streets of the cities that we live in. Okay. People who make this a podcast possible, who work on it, and the Nakoda from Jessica Soffer.
- [33:03]
Charlie Gibson
The Bookcase with Kate and Charlie Gibson is a production of ABC Audio and Good Morning America. It is edited by Tom Butler of TKO Productions. Our executive producers are Laura Mayer and Simone Swink. We want to make mention of Taylor Rhodes, Amanda McMaster and Sarah Russell at Good Morning America and Josh Cohen, Asal Asana, poor Meg Fierro and Amirah Williams at ABC Audio.
- [33:24]
Jessica Sofer
What a gift it is to write. But, oh, what a gift it is to write with fierce love at one's back. That is the greatest story of love I can imagine. Love is a force in the world. From the first word to the very, very last.
- [33:40]
Kate
T Mobile's network is more expansive than your favorite fictional universe because T Mobile helps keep you connected from big cities to your hometown on America's largest 5G network.
- [33:50]
Charlie Gibson
Switch now keep your phone and T.
- [33:51]
Jessica Sofer
Mobile will pay it off at the.
- [33:52]
Kate
$800 per line via prepaid cart.
- [33:54]
Charlie Gibson
Visit your local T Mobile location or.
- [33:57]
Jessica Sofer
Learn more at T Mobile.
- [33:58]
Kate
Com. Keepandswitch up to 4 lines of your virtual prepaid card left 15 days qualified unlock device, credit service port in 90 plus days device and eligible carrier and timely redemption required card is no cash access.
- [34:06]
Jessica Sofer
It expires in six months.