Podcast Summary
Podcast: The Book Case
Episode: John Irving Creates a Queen
Hosts: Charlie Gibson (A), Kate Gibson (B)
Guest: John Irving (C)
Date: November 20, 2025
Overview
This episode features an in-depth conversation with acclaimed novelist John Irving about his new book, Queen Esther. The hosts, Charlie and Kate Gibson, explore the novel's themes of family, identity, historical memory, and the craft of writing. The discussion delves into how Irving constructs worlds that make the eccentric and extraordinary feel comfortingly normal—a hallmark of his career. The episode is rich with reflections on Irving’s writing philosophy, the origins and emotional resonance of Queen Esther, and the perennial motifs running through his oeuvre.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Seasonal Reflections and Podcast News
- [00:36 – 03:22]
- Kate and Charlie share personal anecdotes about autumn, segueing into the show’s recent renewal for another year.
- Kate expresses gratitude for the opportunity to "pick the brains" of authors every week, likening the podcast to a masterclass in writing.
2. Introducing John Irving and 'Queen Esther'
- [03:41 – 08:10]
- The new novel is framed as both a return to familiar Irving territory and a unique entry in his catalogue.
- Charlie summarizes the book’s premise: Queen Esther, a Jewish orphan at St. Cloud (from The Cider House Rules universe), is adopted by the Winslow family as a nanny. Eventually, she becomes the surrogate mother to Honor Winslow’s child—a plot point that raises questions about family, identity, and heritage.
- The discussion highlights Irving’s characteristic weaving of orphans, unconventional families, abortion, and zany yet heartfelt scenarios.
Kate [06:41]: “It feels like settling up in, in the fire in a winter night and reading John Irving. This book. It's weird, it's quirky, but it's warm and wonderful.”
3. John Irving on Length, History, and Research
- [08:59 – 12:18]
- Irving jokes about Queen Esther being a “novella” at 400 pages compared to his last 1,200-page effort, and shares how his process is shaped by his historical research.
- He highlights the rigor required for "historical fiction," insisting that writers can’t solely rely on personal memory but must check that personal experiences reflect broader historical truths.
- A key example: Revisiting Israel to ensure accuracy regarding time and place.
John Irving [11:24]: “If you're claiming it as history in a novel, it ain't good enough that it happened to you. It had to be happening all the time.”
4. Constructing Queen Esther’s Character and Arc
- [12:18 – 14:41]
- Irving intentionally crafted Esther as a Jewish orphan, drawing on memories of New England’s insularity and antisemitism in his youth.
- He describes beginning with the novel’s ending, then building a character whose formative experiences (being denied a Jewish childhood) compel her return—first to Vienna, then to Israel.
John Irving [13:19]: “I wanted... a character that we empathize with because of what's happened to her... even as a three year old, her life has been shaped by antisemitism. Let's send her back to her birth country... that's her destiny.”
5. Exploring Adoption, Identity, and the Outsider Writer
- [14:41 – 19:26]
- The novel’s crux: Jimmy Winslow’s quest to discover his identity, having been raised by Honor but born to Esther—a scenario reflecting Irving’s own lifelong preoccupations with family mystery and belonging.
- Irving discusses the writer’s perspective: authors often feel like foreigners—both in their craft and their communities.
- His formative years in New Hampshire and time as a student abroad intensified this feeling, making him embrace being an “outsider”.
John Irving [16:27]: “Writers in their own lives... often feel they are more of an observer than they are a participant in the time they live.”
John Irving [18:21]: “I am a foreigner, and for the first time I feel it's okay to be one.”
6. Dedication to Craft: ‘A Horse with Blinders’
- [19:26 – 20:59]
- Kate references a metaphor used in the novel: Jimmy (and by extension Irving) as a “horse with blinders”—single-mindedly focused.
- Irving delights in the German idiom (ein Pferd mit Scheuklappen) and recounts anecdotes about forgoing leisure for writing.
John Irving [20:14]: “The joy of my life, the luxury of my life, when my fourth novel liberated me from being a teacher... But that's a horse with blinders on. No question.”
7. Suspending Disbelief: Making Eccentricity Feel Natural
- [20:59 – 23:53]
- Charlie and Kate marvel at how Irving renders extreme or odd behavior credible and affecting.
- Irving’s technique: make characters deeply textured and present—especially through dialogue, action, and distinct edges (e.g., giving a character a memorable object like a bicycle pump).
- The aim: make eccentricity just an extension of being powerfully real.
John Irving [22:08]: “If you want to make something... extreme that is nonetheless real, the characters have to be real.”
8. Structure, Time, and Endings
- [23:53 – 28:31]
- Discussion moves to Irving’s management of time in his novels. He meticulously plans arcs and passage of years before writing.
- Irving hopes that the historical arc in Queen Esther foreshadows the “eternal conflict” of Jerusalem, and laments today’s enduring reality.
- On endings: Irving often writes the last sentence (or paragraph) first, but remains flexible and tweaks as needed to deliver “where the beat comes down.”
John Irving [26:26]: “By the time I get to the last chapter, I've probably already written the last half... there’s three or four last sentences that would work equally well, and I'll make up my mind about which one to take when I get there.”
Charlie [28:31]: “Both Kate and I thought that last graph was a perfect summation of the novel.”
9. Reflections on John Irving’s Writing Process
- [30:46 – 32:37]
- Charlie and Kate discuss Irving’s careful, slow writing habits—including a story about him laboring over five-word answers and the details (down to changing three-word sentences to two).
- Irving’s meticulousness and revision process is contrasted to more freewheeling writers; every sentence is carefully crafted.
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
On Writing, Belonging, and Outsiderness:
John Irving [16:27]:
“Writers in their own lives... often feel they are more of an observer than they are a participant in the time they live.” -
On Historical Fiction:
John Irving [11:24]:
“If you're claiming it as history... it ain't good enough that it happened to you. It had to be happening all the time.” -
On Crafting Real Characters:
John Irving [22:08]:
“If you want to get away with something extreme that is nonetheless real, the characters have to be real.” -
On His Signature Approach to Endings:
John Irving [26:26]:
“Yes, as it turns out, I did. I do have last sentences first. But... if I ever think of a better last sentence when I get there, I wouldn't hesitate to change it. This isn't a religion...” -
On Receiving Blurbs from Charlie:
Charlie [31:43]:
“It's one of the highlights of my life. I'll have it on my gravestone. He's in a John Irving novel in the acknowledgments.”
Timestamps for Important Segments
- [03:41] — John Irving introduction and summary of Queen Esther
- [08:59] — Irving on novel length and historical research
- [12:18] — The roots of Queen Esther’s character and arc
- [14:41] — The book’s central question of identity and family
- [16:27] — Writing, outsiderness, and living as an observer
- [19:26] — Jimmy and the “horse with blinders” metaphor
- [20:59] — Making the eccentric believable
- [23:53] — Managing passage of time in the writing process
- [26:26] — Planning endings and the last paragraph of Queen Esther
- [30:46] — Reflections on Irving’s painstaking writing style
- [33:31] — Closing segment, pet peeve: pre-Thanksgiving Christmas advertising
Tone & Atmosphere
The discussion blends warmth, humor, and literary insight, with the Gibsons expressing both reverence and affection for John Irving. Irving matches this with thoughtful (and sometimes self-deprecating) candor, elucidating his complex process while remaining accessible and personal.
For New Listeners & Irving Fans
This episode offers:
- A rich window into John Irving’s methods and motives, especially around Queen Esther.
- Candid discussion on the emotional and professional stakes of writing about identity, family, and history.
- A strong sense of Irving’s personality—gentle, exacting, and deeply invested in both his craft and the world his novels inhabit.
Those unfamiliar with Irving’s work will leave with an understanding of why his books resonate so deeply for many, while devoted readers will appreciate the fresh angles on familiar themes.