Podcast Summary: The Book Case Episode: Kaveh Akbar and Tommy Orange: The Author Friendship
Release Date: March 20, 2025
Host/Authors: Kate and Charlie Gibson

Introduction to the Episode

In this captivating episode of The Book Case, hosts Kate and Charlie Gibson delve into the profound friendship between two acclaimed authors, Kaveh Akbar and Tommy Orange. Both authors have made significant marks in contemporary literature, with Akbar's Martyr being a National Book Award finalist and Orange's There There achieving Pulitzer finalist status. This episode explores how their collaborative relationship has influenced their respective works and offers listeners an intimate look into the dynamics of their literary partnership.

The Genesis of a Literary Friendship

Kaveh Akbar opens the discussion by welcoming listeners and setting the stage for an insightful conversation about his friendship with Tommy Orange.

Kate expresses her enthusiasm for having both authors on the show, highlighting their mutual respect and the impact they've had on each other's writing journeys.

Kaveh Akbar draws parallels between his and Tommy's collaboration and famous literary friendships, such as Truman Capote and Harper Lee or Ernest Hemingway and F. Scott Fitzgerald. He remarks:

"It's fascinating, these pairings, and you understand that, you know, it's hard to, I guess, to get in the head of a writer and yet another writer, it seems to me, would be able to do that far more easily than we can as readers."
[04:03]

Collaborative Creative Process

Kate discusses how The Book Case has become a masterclass in writing, focusing on the editing and critique processes among writers. She shares the news of Akbar and Orange touring together for their paperback releases, emphasizing the unique opportunity to observe a "writer's group of two."

Kaveh Akbar explains that his foray into novel writing was heavily influenced by Tommy Orange, who encouraged him to explore narrative fiction. Drawing comparisons to literary legends, he notes:

"And I was the person in charge of ferrying him around... Suddenly we were talking to each other like human beings and not, like, two guys at their jobs. And everything bloomed from there."
[08:08]

Tommy Orange reflects on his admiration for Akbar's poetry and how their mutual respect naturally led to exchanging creative work. He shares:

"I was a huge admirer of him going into meeting him."
[11:53]

Evolution of Their Works Through Collaboration

Kaveh Akbar candidly discusses his transition from poetry to prose, attributing much of his novel Martyr to the influence and collaboration with Tommy Orange. He admits:

"I had no ambitions beyond the next poem... Somehow we both slid glacially into narrative fiction... I was just reading really ravenously, but also reading Tommy every week."
[10:07]

Tommy Orange acknowledges the profound impact of their partnership on his own work, Wandering Stars. He states:

"Wandering Stars was before it became Wandering Stars... It would have been a different book. Absolutely."
[20:58]

Both authors agree that their friendship and continuous exchange of ideas were pivotal in shaping their literary creations.

Engaging with the Younger Audience

The hosts steer the conversation towards Akbar and Orange's involvement with high schools during their tours. Kaveh Akbar shares insights into their messages to students, emphasizing honesty and vulnerability:

"We may be accomplished writers, but we're as insecure as any of you... Maybe I'm only as good as my last book."
[05:27]

Tommy Orange further elaborates on his approach to speaking with high school students, prioritizing authenticity over polished messages:

"I just go in and be like, this is who I am. This is how I feel."
[17:22]

Kate highlights the importance of their sincerity, noting the challenges of addressing an audience that values truthfulness and can sense insincerity immediately.

Rapid Fire: A Twist of the Newlywed Game

In a playful segment, Akbar and Orange engage in a rapid-fire session where they answer questions about each other, adding a light-hearted dimension to their deep literary discussion.

Sample Exchanges:

• Kaveh on Tommy's Preferences:

  • "Mark Twain or Herman Melville?"

    "Melville, Tommy."
    [24:26]

• Tommy on Kaveh's Tendencies:

  • "Opera or ballet?"

    "Opera."
    [24:37]

• Kaveh on Tommy's High School Grades:

  • "What was Tommy's last grade in an English class?"

    "I got a D in English."
    [25:20]

• Tommy on Kaveh's Personality:

  • "Is Kaveh an introvert or an extrovert?"

    "He's naturally an introvert and has gotten good at being an extrovert."
    [26:26]

This segment not only entertains but also deepens the listener's understanding of the authors' personalities and mutual perceptions.

The Resilience of Independent Bookstores

Transitioning from personal narratives, Kate introduces a discussion on the state of independent bookstores, especially in the post-COVID era. Citing data from Allison Hill, CEO of the American Booksellers Association, it's revealed that:

• Pre-COVID: Approximately 1,916 independent bookstores existed in the U.S.
• Post-COVID: Over 900 new independent bookstores have opened, totaling around 942 new establishments since the pandemic began.

  "Unless you become a recluse. I think he's naturally an introvert and then he... he has gotten good at being an extrovert."
  [30:56]

Kate expresses optimism about this growth, attributing it to the pandemic-rekinded appreciation for bookstores and the innovative adaptations these businesses employed, such as curbside pickups and online sales.

Kaveh Akbar emphasizes the community-centric nature of independent bookstores, noting their pivotal role beyond just retail spaces:

"It's a nice feeling when you go into an independent bookstore... They're critical."
[32:04]

Closing Remarks and Gratitude

As the episode draws to a close, Kate and Charlie express their gratitude towards Akbar and Orange for sharing their stories and insights. They acknowledge the collaborative efforts that make the podcast possible and encourage listeners to engage with the featured books.

Charlie Gibson shares a heartfelt sentiment:

"I just feel very grateful that you guys spent time with the book and that you spend your time doing this for authors. And I feel very grateful to get to be Tommy's friend."
[33:56]

Tommy Orange offers a poetic closing by reading the beginning of his work, Space Truck, leaving listeners with a glimpse into his creative mind.

Notable Quotes

• Kaveh Akbar:

  "They largely shaped their last two novels. Kave working with Tommy on Wandering Stars and Tommy getting pages from Martyr."
  [01:33]

• Tommy Orange:

  "If we have to pick between Van Halen and Thelma and Louise, I don't know that I could. It might be more of, like a Bill and Ted adventure situation."
  [16:43]

• Kate:

  "I would love talking to them because they're both such terrific talkers and they clearly have such affection for each other."
  [05:27]

Conclusion

This episode of The Book Case offers a deep dive into the symbiotic relationship between Kaveh Akbar and Tommy Orange, showcasing how mutual respect and collaboration can propel authors to new creative heights. Additionally, the discussion on the resurgence of independent bookstores serves as a testament to the enduring love for books and the communities that support them. Whether you're a fan of contemporary literature or passionate about the literary community, this episode provides valuable insights and inspiration.