Our Writer in Residence Talks Endings

Summary

The Book Case: Episode Summary – "Our Writer in Residence Talks Endings"

Release Date: May 29, 2025

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Introduction

In the latest episode of The Book Case, hosts Kate Gibson and Charlie Gibson delve deep into the creative journey of their Writer in Residence, Jay Ryan Straddle. This episode not only explores Jay's intricate writing process but also features an inspiring segment on Nefer Book Cafe, an emerging independent bookstore fostering community in the Bronx.

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Interview with Jay Ryan Straddle

Background and Connection to Jay Ryan

Kate introduces Jay Ryan Straddle, highlighting their long-standing friendship that dates back to college. Jay's literary prowess was evident early on, with Kate recalling, “[...] I couldn't put it down. And I always knew he was a great writer in college.” Jay's fourth novel is a deeply personal project, inspired by the untimely death of his mother at 55.

Writing Process and Evolution

Jay discusses his transition to writing sequentially and with a single point of view. At [05:17], he shares, “I'm on page 238 in Word and 66,183 words,” indicating significant progress with just two chapters left. He emphasizes the importance of focusing on a single protagonist to center the narrative around the hero's journey.

Meditation and Creative Flow

At [06:51], Jay credits meditation for helping him achieve a state of focused calmness, stating, “Meditating to me just felt like... flushing a toilet. And after, I just feel like, all right, I'm locked in. I'm focused.” This practice replaced his previous methods like bike riding, allowing him to immerse fully in his writing.

Tribute to His Mother

The novel serves as a tribute to Jay's mother, blending fictional elements with heartfelt homage. At [11:15], Jay reflects, “Nothing can be enough of a tribute to her ultimately. But this is the most consequential tribute I've done so far to her.” The character Peggy embodies 70-80% of Jay's mother, evolving into her own distinct persona within the story.

Overcoming Writing Challenges

Jay shares his struggle with nitpicking and editing, which often led him to discard substantial portions of his work. However, by [10:01], he marks a turning point: “By September 10, 2024, almost everything I've kept and have moved forward.” This shift allowed him to focus on progressing the narrative while making necessary adjustments to enhance story coherence.

Workshop and Feedback

Collaborating closely with Brooke, who has an MFA in theater, Jay reads his manuscript aloud, receiving valuable feedback. At [16:12], he notes, “Hearing the characters speak and react... helps catch inconsistencies that aren't evident on the page.”

Publishing Prospects

With three successful novels, Jay opts to sell each book individually rather than pursuing multi-book deals. As of [17:49], he discusses plans to submit his latest manuscript to his agent for further guidance on publishing strategies.

Emotional Significance

Acknowledging the profound personal nature of this book, Jay admits at [19:00], “This is an intensely personal book. It's the most, I think, profound and focused way I've attempt to honor her legacy.” The narrative not only explores imagined chapters of his mother's life but also serves as a means for Jay to seek closure, albeit recognizing its elusive nature.

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Feature: Nefer Book Cafe with Pumpkin

Transitioning from Jay's literary journey, Kate and Charlie spotlight Nefer Book Cafe, an innovative bookstore in the Bronx managed by Lana Dawson, affectionately known as Pumpkin.

Establishing the Bookstore

Pumpkin explains at [24:45], “Nefer Book Cafe is the place that I always needed to go. We nurture love, joy, identity through reading and conversations.” The bookstore emphasizes curation with purpose, selecting books that dislodge dehumanizing beliefs and foster healing from social divisions.

Community Building

At [29:05], Pumpkin shares a heartwarming anecdote about Alison Hill's visit, highlighting the magical community atmosphere she cultivates. "[...] everyone walks in as strangers and leaves as friends," Pumpkin notes, emphasizing the intentional communal seating arrangements that encourage spontaneous conversations and connections.

Meaning Behind the Name

Nefer, derived from Kemetic culture, signifies both “good, beautiful, pleasant” and “zero,” symbolizing infinite possibilities born from emptiness. Pumpkin pays homage to her seventh-grade English teacher, Mrs. Anderson, named Nefer, whose influence inspired the bookstore's ethos.

Decolonized Translations

Committed to inclusive and thoughtful curation, Pumpkin prioritizes decolonized translations, ensuring that translations maintain the author's original intent. She mentions works like Lama Rod Owens' The New Saints as exemplary in gently challenging dehumanizing beliefs through literature.

Location and Invitation

Nefer Book Cafe is located at 694 E 241st St., Wakeville, Bronx, New York. Pumpkin invites the community to visit, promising not just books but a wholesome, engaging experience that fosters love and connection.

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Conclusion

The episode wraps up with Kate and Charlie expressing their admiration for both Jay and Pumpkin, celebrating the intertwining of personal storytelling and community-building through literature. They encourage listeners to support independent bookstores like Nefer Book Cafe and look forward to Jay's novel release.

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Notable Quotes

• Charlie Gibson [05:07]: "Jay Ryan, as you've talked about before, this is based on the fact that your mom died when she was 55."

• Jay Ryan Straddle [06:42]: "Meditating to me just felt like... flushing a toilet. And after, I just feel like, all right, I'm locked in. I'm focused."

• Pumpkin [24:45]: "Nefer Book Cafe is the place that I always needed to go. We nurture love, joy, identity through reading and conversations."

• Jay Ryan Straddle [19:34]: "If I felt like that every day while writing it, I might be paralyzed by a sense of obligation to honor that. But ultimately, yes, I think that's in the back of my head."

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Tune in every Thursday to explore diverse literary landscapes and discover new genres with Kate and Charlie Gibson on The Book Case.

Transcript

[Charlie]

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[Kate]

Welcome to the bookcase. If it's the bookcase, it must be Thursday. Cause we know you listen on the day we drop. I am Kate.

[Charlie]

Drop is a word they use in podcast land. It's strange to me. We publish. We. I don't know, we have a new episode every Thursday. But in podcast land, they say we drop on Thursday.

[Kate]

I think that extends to other mediums as well. Like when pop artists have a new album, they say it's gonna drop on this date. Like, I think it's just kind of a cool way of saying something's coming.

[Charlie]

I just feel like it's gravity taking its hold and pulling us down. But. And he quit.

[Kate]

That's probably our age.

[Charlie]

Yeah. Anyway, we have with us again this week Jay Ryan Straddle. If you have been listening over past that, Jay Ryan took a big leap of faith and decided that he would cooperate with us and be our writer in residence. And we have been talking to him, I guess, for more than a year now. Kate, every once in a while as he produces his fourth novel. We started when he was just starting, and now. Well, now I guess Katie's getting pretty close to completion.

[Kate]

Yeah, I'm really excited about it. I first met Jay Ryan when I was in college, and we've been very, very, very good friends ever since. And I don't know, I'd like to think I was one of the first readers of his first book, Kitchens of the Great Midwest. And I remember texting him after I finished. I read it in one day. I couldn't put it down. And I always knew he was a great writer in college, but I remember texting him when I was done reading the manuscript. I remember saying, get ready for greatness, my friend. I just love his writing, and I'm so excited to read his fourth book, which in a way is his most personal. His mother was a huge influence in his life. He grew up in a small town in Minnesota, and his mother really encouraged him to be a writer and to find his voice. And his mother has always been a huge influence on his life. And he lost her way, way too young. And she was just in the process of having finished college and she was starting to write herself, and she was really opening this fascinating third chapter in her life cycle. And so he decided to imagine what that life cycle would have been had she lived. And I think it's probably morphed into something different now. I don't think it's a direct biography of his mother. I think he's created a fictional character. But I think in some ways, or at least I hope in some ways, although he's never said this, that this might help Jay Ryan find some closure. I don't believe we ever find full closure, especially with the death of a parent, but some closure to the fact that he lost her.

[Charlie]

Well, I hate that word closure because I don't think you ever achieve it. You just miss that person. And we talk a lot about, with writers who've written about grief, that closure really is a myth that you really never, you never totally lose that person. And they're basically always buried deep in your heart and your soul. His mom died at the age of 55. And it's not a biography, couldn't be a biography, because what he's writing is a fictionalized version of, of what he thinks his mom's life might have been. And so as you say, it's a very personal book. What fascinated me about it is he wrote and wrote and wrote to get her up to the age of 55 and then threw all that away because he wanted to get in the meter of her life. And now I, I guess the book sort of starts with her at the age of 55. And I think, well, we've, we've gone through this in previous conversations with him as he works forward, and he's now, he's pretty close to done.

[Kate]

Yeah, When I checked in with him, I called him just to say I think it's about time we had another writer in residence bookcase. And he goes, oh great, I'm almost done. And I just went, woo hoo. Oh, I've got so many questions to ask you. And I feel privileged and honored that Jay gave us a front seat into his process into what was a very personal book. I'm really thankful that he went on this journey with us and gave us a seat on the plane, as it were, and I'm really proud of him.

[Charlie]

Well, just a little more background. Jay Ryan, as you say, grew up in Minnesota, in rural Minnesota, has moved to la, which strikes me as a huge cultural difference for him. But he says, I will never stop writing about Minnesota because it's so much in my DNA. So here's our conversation with Jay Ryan Straddle, author of a yet untitled book, soon to be in a bookstore near you.

[Kate]

My very good friend and our writer in residence, Jay Ryan Straddle. It's been a while since we talked to you. Where are you? Whatcha doing? How's it going?

[Jay Ryan Straddle]

I'm almost done.

[Charlie]

Whoa.

[Jay Ryan Straddle]

Yeah, whoa. I just finished chapter 14 of 16 yesterday. So I have two more chapters to write. I'm on page 238 in Word and 66,183 words.

[Charlie]

Woohoo. So you're. So you're writing sequentially.

[Jay Ryan Straddle]

Yes. For the first time, huh? One point of view character too. One point of view character sequentially. I may add a few other POVs in like, short bursts, but I'm not sure yet. I'll finish this first and then decide if I need it.

[Kate]

This is exciting. So first, when did you decide on a single character perspective and how did that happen?

[Jay Ryan Straddle]

Since the last time I spoke to you, I had gone far enough with this character that I thought, I'm gonna keep going. Then I realized at a certain point while writing, like chapter seven or eight, like, I like this woman. She's covering a lot of bases here. I wanna follow her. I don't wanna short her narrative by interrupting it with other people's points of view. Also, because this is a hero's journey. I've never done that before, not. Not in this way. So that really forces me to center the hero. If it's the hero's journey, then yeah, they're the engine of the narrative. And I feel like I'm watching her at this point. This is, this is the fun part of writing where I'm taking dictation and she's just telling me, what. What's going to happen?

[Kate]

Was there a moment that you went from like, drive, like hardcore driving to cruise control? Like, what changed for you?

[Jay Ryan Straddle]

Meditation. Brooke encouraged me to start meditating. She's been meditating for over a year and I've seen the effect it's had on her life. But yeah, I just felt like, wow, okay, like, there's a calmness to you. What. What are you doing? And she told me and I said, do you think that would help my writing? And she said, absolutely, I think it would. Why don't you give it a shot? Because I've been Doing other things to get into the zone. Before writing most frequently bike riding. Taking the E bike out in the Burbank Hills and wandering around thinking about stuff. Trying not to, you know, encounter large wild animals, which I have. I encountered a bear once, but that didn't quite do it for me in the same way because I wasn't turning my brain off doing that in quite the same way I'm doing with meditating. Meditating to me just felt like. Well, for lack of a better analogy, flushing a toilet. And after, after a meditation session, I just come up and get to work. I just feel like, all right, I'm done with everything that happened in the day before now. Now I just. I'm. I'm locked in. I'm focused.

[Charlie]

I want to recap for our listeners. This is your fourth novel.

[Jay Ryan Straddle]

Yeah.

[Charlie]

As we've talked about before, this is based on the fact that your mom died when she was 55. She never had a chance to live the back half of her life.

[Jay Ryan Straddle]

That's right.

[Charlie]

And you're writing a book that imagines what the rest of her life could have been.

[Jay Ryan Straddle]

Right.

[Charlie]

So that principal character that you're talking about, that's her.

[Jay Ryan Straddle]

You know, since it's evolved while I'm writing is. It's a woman like her, it's become less a one for one and more like it's 70% my mom. I've had to make some changes to make certain narrative possibilities more likely. Essentially, I think I had to give her a little bit more of a. What's the word? A little less impulse. My mom was pretty impulsive and I've made this woman a little bit more thoughtful in a long term sense. Like someone more prone to long term planning, which I needed for this character. I needed someone who was gonna be able to step back and look at a big picture before acting. And my mom really wasn't that kind of person. Other than that, it's pretty similar. It's. Yeah. Like when I hear the woman's voice in my head, this is my mom talking. It's my mom's voice, it's my mom's opinions, my mom's sense of humor, my mom's value system. Yeah. So I'd say 70 to 80% my mom. But Peggy, what she's called at the moment, is increasingly becoming her own person, which. Which is good.

[Kate]

I got the sense in our previous conversations that one of the things that was proving to be a real labor in this novel was getting past the nitpicking editing, if you like. You kept writing Things and throwing away going, no, it doesn't belong there.

[Jay Ryan Straddle]

Yeah.

[Kate]

Did you. I mean, have you let that go, or did you just learn to make peace with it? When did that sort of epiphany happen for you?

[Jay Ryan Straddle]

I can point to the day.

[Kate]

He's looking at a calendar.

[Jay Ryan Straddle]

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I'm looking at my journal where I write down every day that I write and what I wrote that day.

[Charlie]

Mm.

[Jay Ryan Straddle]

I started writing this book on January 12, 2024. And by September 10th of that year, by September 10, 2024, almost everything I've kept and have moved forward. Like, that's. That's when I stopped going back and.

[Charlie]

Throwing away thousands of words.

[Jay Ryan Straddle]

Yeah. Yeah. Only nine months of writing to get to a point where I'm only moving forward from this point. I mean, which is not to say I didn't go back sometimes to quite often retcon my own work and say, like, oh, I need this to happen, so. Oh, I should really set this up where I'm introducing. Oh, I just suddenly realized I need this vital character to exist, and I better put them earlier in the story so they don't come out of nowhere. But those are the only reasons I've gone backwards at this point. It's just for little stuff like that.

[Charlie]

You said that your mom was the most important person in your life.

[Jay Ryan Straddle]

Yeah.

[Charlie]

That you wouldn't be a writer if it weren't for her.

[Jay Ryan Straddle]

Definitely not.

[Charlie]

So to what extent is this a tribute to her? And do you feel satisfied that it's enough of a tribute to her and not so much fictionalized that it gets out of the tribute category?

[Jay Ryan Straddle]

Wow. What a question. Thank you, Charles. I feel like nothing can be enough of a tribute to her ultimately. But this is the most consequential tribute I've done so far to her. I feel like she's been a voice in my head every book I've written, Sometimes attached to specific characters, sometimes across multiple characters, but this one is. It's like me and her in a room together, writing this book in a way that I haven't felt since my first book.

[Charlie]

Huh.

[Kate]

Is that, do you think, why you were so nitpicky at the beginning and why you struggled so much with how to launch is how personal this book was for you?

[Jay Ryan Straddle]

Yeah, it was a big part of it, I think. And just shutting down other outside influences on that and trying to figure out what story, what narrative arc kind of honored her best. Yeah. And also totally reconstituting my work habits, because, as we said earlier, this is the first time I've written sequentially, chronologically, and with one point of view, character. I've never done this before as a novelist, so any of those things. So I had to really relearn how to write a novel. I feel like I've only ever broken the rules as a novelist. Like, I sat down with my first book and I said, I'm writing this book completely out of order. You know, I'm gonna write the beginning as second to last or last. Which I did. I did all that kind of stuff. And I felt like, oh, I'm. I've gotta kind of go back to the fundamentals for this story. I'm writing a really classic western style narrative with a very familiar arc. I don't know how to do that. Yeah. So I've gotta figure out how to do that.

[Kate]

How did you know there are gonna be 16 chapters? Like, what are you writing towards now? How do you know that you're writing towards the end? When did it get to you?

[Charlie]

And do you know what chapter 16 is gonna be?

[Jay Ryan Straddle]

Yeah, I do. Absolutely. Yeah. Let's see. When did I last outline that? Oh, wow. April 4th. That was 20th anniversary of my mom's death. That's the day I figured out there was 16 chapters. Wow, that's wild. I didn't know that till now.

[Charlie]

You have a title?

[Jay Ryan Straddle]

No, I have no idea. It's late in the game for me to not have a title. Usually I have one by this point, but I. I don't know, I. I think I'm gonna send it to my agent and to my little cadre of. Of novel readers out here. I'm in a novel writing writers group where we share complete manuscripts with each other. And that's sometimes where we spitball ideas for titles.

[Kate]

Want to come back to writing towards the end? What does writing towards the end feel like? We've had writers talk about we write towards the last line or we write towards the last scene, or we write towards the feeling we want to leave the reader with. What is your momentum at this point? What are you writing towards?

[Jay Ryan Straddle]

Wow, great question. I feel like the advantage of knowing the ending is unwrapping a way you can earn that ending in that you want that ending to feel both inevitable and very unlikely.

[Kate]

It's a good way to put it.

[Jay Ryan Straddle]

Yeah. And so I'm contriving narrative detours, the occasional cul de sac and the occasional Runway that help. Help lead my character towards that ending. And where I'm at now, it feels like, okay, this is becoming increasingly inevitable. It's still going to be surprising to me, but yeah, at, at chapter 14. It's coming into focus. I, I think an astute reader could probably guess right now what the ending would be, but I still want to make them work a little bit. Yeah, I also, I also have so many feints in this book. There are so many, like, antiheroes and plot lines that are introduced that are just resolved almost instantly. It's like, oh, this is gonna be the villain. Oh, no, I guess not. Oh, she's gonna do this. Oh, I guess not.

[Kate]

What have you been workshopping? Like, talk to me about the workshop process. Have you, what, have you, have you shown them anything so far?

[Jay Ryan Straddle]

No, I haven't.

[Kate]

Like, are you gonna show this to them? All of a piece.

[Jay Ryan Straddle]

Brooke and I took a day and I read her the entire book to that point aloud. Like, we took a lunch break. I read her, I read for, like, three hours. We took a lunch break. Then I read for another three hours. So she just basically listened to a live audiobook. And that's the only person besides me who's read or heard any of it. And she gave great notes and was very encouraging. And, you know, she has an MFA in theater. She's got a pretty sophisticated sense of story and character, and I really appreciate her insight. And she's very blunt. Richard Ford does this.

[Kate]

Does he?

[Jay Ryan Straddle]

Yeah, yeah. He reads to his wife. And I remember him talking about that and thinking, well, what a useful tool. I gotta do that. You know, I, I wanna have someone in my life, whether it's my partner or not, that I, I can read to. Because you also. It's a, it's a different kind of proving ground for your work in that hearing it aloud is so much different than just handing someone a pile of paper or a Word document. You know, you hear the characters speak and react to each other. You hear their internal thoughts. It not only troubleshoots your grammar and usage, but the consistency of these characters in a way that I think you don't. On, on a flat page, you know, certain vocal mannerisms when you're speaking them, you internalize them and you go, oh, wow, okay, this person talks like this. Or, or, no, this person wouldn't say that. I, I, I caught myself doing that a lot when reading this book aloud to Brooke, thinking, oh, why did I have her say that? She wouldn't say that. Like, that's not how she would put it. Yeah. And I may not have thought that just, you know, reading it or someone may not have discerned that on the Page. So yeah, there's, it's. It's been a useful tool and I'm very grateful for her patience and her interest in participating with me in that process.

[Charlie]

You were very successful with books number one through three and you told us, which I thought was interesting, you were not interested in a multi book deal with the publisher, that what had worked best for you was selling each book individually. Do you have a publisher for this one?

[Jay Ryan Straddle]

No, I think when I finish, you know, I'll send it to my agent, he'll give me notes and then we'll discuss where to go from there. I want to discuss that because I feel like that is such a. Well, well, third rail is probably too harsh. I don't think there's. I don't think we're forbidden from speaking about it in any specific sense. But I feel it's not often discussed the business of writing between writers. Certainly I've met a lot of MFA graduates who managed to complete a master's program in writing without any professional development. So that to me was probably the biggest mystery of being a writer was what happens after something is done. What happens between completing a manuscript and buying a book at Majors and Quinn, what happens in that gap?

[Charlie]

Jay Ryan, because this is such a personal book and you say your mom has been in various characters in every book you've written, but this one, she's much more directly involved and it is her story as it might have been and as you conjure it. So does that make this book more important to you than anything you've written in the past?

[Jay Ryan Straddle]

Wow. Maybe. Yeah. Yeah, maybe. I think if I felt like that every day while writing it, I might be paralyzed by a sense of obligation to honor that. But ultimately, yes, I think that's in the back of my head. I think that's unsaid premise underneath this whole mission is that this is an intensely personal book. And yeah, it's the most, I think, profound and focused way I've attempt to honor her legacy.

[Charlie]

And so when you send it in, you want to be able to yourself say to yourself, mom, I hope I've done you proud. Yeah, because you did me proud.

[Jay Ryan Straddle]

That's right.

[Kate]

It really feels like you've reached cruise control. You've reached cruising altitude. I can't wait to read it. Thank you so much for letting us have a front seat.

[Jay Ryan Straddle]

Oh, thank you for having me on the show. And I look forward to our next conversation already.

[Charlie]

The new McCrispy strip is here.

[Jay Ryan Straddle]

Dip approved by Ketchup Tangy barbecue.

[Charlie]

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[Kate]

Now normally, you know, because you are an obsessive listener to this podcast, so normally right now you'd say, okay, we're gonna cut to the rapid fire questions.

[Charlie]

I was gonna say we did rapid fire with him about six conversations ago, so. So that's done anyway.

[Kate]

Yeah, and I think we've done two or three more. So I think he's rapidly fired, all the questions. So. So we didn't do a rapid fire with Jay Ryan, but we look forward to talking to him again as he, you know, puts the finishing touches on and starts thinking about going to market with this book. What a great journey. He's allowed us to accompany him on.

[Charlie]

I have a bookstore for you. We've been working with Alison Hill who is the chief executive of the American Booksellers association and they have a few thousand independent bookstores that are members of the aba. And I got a lovely, lovely email from her saying that she had visited a new black owned store called Nefer in the Bronx in New York. That was extraordinary. And she said it's small with a coffee shop, local art and just one bay of books so far. But they're doing amazing events, book clubs, flower arranging and gatherings with dancing and laughing. And the place, she said, just feels like magic. She had planned to stop by for just a few moments to introduce herself to the owner who was known as Pumpkin and ended up staying for an hour and a half. She said it. It. It was just fascinating talking to Pumpkin. She said an Uber driver dropped Pumpkin's mom off and was invited in for coffee. He was an African immigrant who had recently lost his wife. He talked about how hard it was to be there without her and without his community. They embraced him, invited him back, saying, now you have us. You have this place. And at one point, she wrote me that her mom invited the Uber driver to stop by her house where he picked her up anytime. And when Pumpkin thought she might chastise her mom for inviting a stranger over, but instead, Pumpkin suggested her mom give the Uber driver her phone number. It became just a sort of a community happening. And Allison Hill State said she stayed here in the bookstore for an hour and a half, even though they have just one Bay of Books, intending to get more. So we had to talk to Pumpkin, and I found her delightful. Kate, I hope you did, too.

[Kate]

Yeah, I mean, what can you say about a place that has one Bay of Books? And yet when people walk in, they're strangers and they leave as friends. You get the sense that Pumpkin is really forming a community around her bookstore. I have no doubt that she will grow. I wish I lived closer to this area so that I could frequent and we could exchange phone numbers. I mean, this woman is just. She is magic. And you definitely have the sense that if there is such a thing as a magic formula for a successful independent bookstore, Pumpkin's got it. And we loved talking to her. So here it is, our conversation with Pumpkin at the Nefer Bookstore.

[Charlie]

Lana Dawson. I know what everybody calls you, Pumpkin, so if you'll pardon us, we'll call you Pumpkin as well. But you have one of the most unusual business plans in the way you're starting out, and I think it's really terrific. So tell me how you're developing this bookstore.

[Pumpkin]

Nefer Book Cafe is what I like to say, the place that I always needed to go. And so the ethos here is that we nurture love, joy, identity through reading and conversations. The books, the coffees, everything is curated by me with this in mind. Will it dislodge dehumanizing beliefs? Will it help us heal from the damage of grind culture and social divisions? And if the answer to that is yes, then you will find it at Nefer Book Cafe. So for most people, that can sound like it's a very politically charged statement, and it could sound like it may be exclusive to certain types of writers and certain ethnicities of writers, but it's not, it's actually all inclusive because it starts to chip away at the things that we either subtly or very overtly hold in our minds about what we're capable of and what others are capable of.

[Charlie]

I love the fact that the way you're starting, there's a lot of investment, a lot of money that's involved in opening a bookstore. You need inventory, you need a lot of stuff. So you make a book cafe, you serve coffee, you serve whatever, and you start with just a few books and then you're expanding and expanding and expanding. Right? How, how have you done that?

[Pumpkin]

I started the book cafe on my own from a limited pool of resources, and I did exactly that. Charlie. It started off when I first made the cart. Oh, there were thousands of dollars of books. I was like, I don't think I can do this. And so my idea was, you know what, let's scale back. Let's start with a few good ones, the ones that helped me out, the ones I want people to read, and let's instead build an altar around the books. So rather than doing, doing floor to ceiling shelves, let's actually honor the moment in a really creative way and a way that signifies the significance of the books. So with just a few hundred dollars in books, when we opened, the books were organized on the shelf behind me like an altar. There were flowers. The titles complemented this altar, like presence of the books. And we began growing from there. And what I love every week on social media at Neferbook Cafe, I do a digest of the books that people are reading, have ordered or have purchased. So that continues the community around what people ask me for when they come in and what they want me to order for them. And what's so interesting is how they call me to task like, you ain't got no bell hooks? And I'm like, okay, we're going to solve that right now. So yeah, it was an incremental process that we continue to expand and in utilizing the space fully, we think of creative ways to present the books.

[Kate]

So how do you expand your inventory? How do you make the decisions about the small amount of space do you have? Do you do it through social media, through research with the folks who come in and buy the books? How do you know what fits within your mission of unification?

[Pumpkin]

So the culture here is to gently dislodge dehumanizing beliefs. And so I think that can be done with a great deal of care and compassion for where someone is starting out. So that's what I look for. I look for things that are more like a whisper than a yellow the books that reflect to you like, the best of who you are. And it comes from a writer who has humanizing values and beliefs about people, because then we can be opened up to see ourselves clearly. And it may be painfully, but when it's layered in love, we can take on that truth. So that's what I look for in books. I ask myself that question. So some of the books that are doing it for me have been a book by Lama Rod Owens called the New Saints. That's one of the books that I think help us to gently dislodge those dehumanizing beliefs. Then our children's books do it for me just the way children are represented in ways that they are not marginalized, but they're integrated in the story in a way that's humane and honors their humanity.

[Charlie]

Where we got your name was from Alison Hill, who was the CEO of the American Booksellers Association. And she said, I stopped in just because I happened to be in the neighborhood, and I thought I'd be there for 10 minutes, and I was there for an hour and a half.

[Pumpkin]

So I say this to everyone who comes in one. Some people walk in and they're pleasantly startled because there will be so much going on. There will be conversations happening across the room, conversations happening at the table. And they'll think that there's an event happening where these people have come together because they're part of maybe a book club or some community. And I'm like, everybody in here just met an hour ago. This is what happens. Like, I don't know the magic. I do, right? I guess I kind of do. That occurs here. But you're instantly invited to have conversations and to talk. And there are some strategic elements, of course, that lend itself to that. Like, our seating is really communal. It forces you to be close to people, to sit next to someone. And even when they're apart, I've watched conversations unfold where someone who is minding their own business, drinking their coffee, will turn around to interject at the conversation at the table that they've been quietly listening to 30 minutes, and they just got to jump in. And so that day Allison came in, it was truly the organic experience of Nefertit to walk in and see people behaving, loving, as if they've known each other forever.

[Charlie]

Where does the name Nefer come from?

[Pumpkin]

You're going to love this about Nefer. So Nefer has multiple meanings here. One, it comes from the kemetic Culture, you've probably recognized it in names like Nefertiti, Nefertari. In that culture, nefer was the base word that meant good, beautiful, pleasant, but it was also the number zero. So the fact that something could be considered good and beautiful and at the same time be nothing, be empty, created what I think are infinite possibility. I think it's the full embodiment of our humanity when that. When we feel like we have nothing, that's when we are good and most beautiful. And then the secondary meeting is my seventh grade English teacher, Mrs. Anderson. She's also honored on the altar of our books, who nurtured my writing, was nicknamed Nefer by her husband. So she passed away about a decade ago, and I could not, not honor her for all the things that those honorable teachers do. She. She nurtured me and many others. So much so that I went to the restaurant nearby while we were under construction. I walk in, I see one of my childhood friends from middle school who was also a student of Mrs. Anderson, and now she's a business consultant. Without missing a beat, she jumped in to help me because she shares in those memories and people could understand, like, okay, my seventh grade teacher had an impact, but she knows what it's like. And when she walked in, she said, this is so Ms. Anderson. And so that was such a great whisper for someone else to see how I'm honoring her and feel it in everything that we've created here.

[Kate]

One of Alison Hill's favorite purchases when she was at your store was a bookmark that said, decolonize your bookshelves. I'm interested to know how you do that and what that means to you.

[Pumpkin]

So right now it's in translation. Translations, it will change, because I don't believe in taking on everything all at once. So the focus now is decolonized translations. So I spend a great deal of time looking for writers who are writing in their native language and have been translated by someone who is careful, someone who has a great deal of expertise and skill in maintaining the writer's intent. So one of the books we recently had in store was the Simple Art of Killing a Woman by Patricia Mello. It was not a favorite, I know, but I love that the book being in the store introduced our readers to the idea of decolonized translations. And so it was another way of reinforcing what I mean in Nefer's ethos when I say that we are healing ourselves from social divisions, and that will change. There will be other things to decolonize and dissect. And all the things.

[Charlie]

Well, Pumpkin, it is a pleasure. Pleasure to talk to you. Where do we find your store?

[Pumpkin]

You find us in the Bronx, New York. Uptown, baby. We are located in the Wakeville section of the Bronx at 694 E 241st St. You can find us online, on Facebook, on Instagram, at Neferbook Cafe.

[Charlie]

We will tell people to stop in, buy a book, help her expand her book inventory, and I suspect if you really ask for it, you'll get a hug as well.

[Pumpkin]

Yes, you suspect right.

[Charlie]

All right.

[Kate]

The Great Pumpkin of Nefer Cafe and books. I. I wish I lived. Like I say, I wish I lived locally and we could exchange phone numbers. I would come in with my laptop in the morning and she'd probably kick me out in the evening. What a terrific, terrific store.

[Charlie]

Wasn't it Linus who in Peanuts kept talking about the Great Pumpkin? But now we have a new Great Pumpkin in in her bookstore, Nefer in the Bronx.

[Kate]

So we're going to end with a coda from Jay Ryan Straddle from his first book, Kitchens of the Great Midwest. And I wanted to just use this as a coda to give you a little pressy as to why Jay Ryan's writing is so wonderful. This is about a man meeting his baby daughter in the hospital for the first time and it brings all the warmth and the love of Jay Ryan's writing to the forefront. So a reminder about the great folks who make this podcast possible. And then a coda by Jay Ryan Straddle, read by me.

[Charlie]

The Bookcase with Kate and Charlie is a joint production of Good Morning America and ABC Audio. It is edited by Tom Butler of TKO Productions, and our executive producer is Simone Swink. We want to make special mention of Amanda McMaster, Sabrina Kohlberg, and Ariel Chester of ABC Good Morning America and Josh Cohan of ABC Audio. You can follow us and rate and review this podcast wherever you get your podcasts. And if you like to find any of the books mentioned on this podcast, you can find them listed in the episode description.

[Kate]

When Lars first held her, his heart melted over her like butter on warm bread. And he would never get it back. When mother and baby were asleep in the hospital room, he went out to the parking lot, sat in his Dodge Omni and cried like a man who had never wanted anything in his life. Until now.

[Charlie]

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