← The Book Case
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- [00:02]
Kate Gibson
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Katherine Rundell
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Kate Gibson
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Katherine Rundell
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Maya Daughtery
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Katherine Rundell
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- [00:37]
Charlie Gibson
Okay, book lovers, it's good to have you with us. I refuse to use the term book nerds like my daughter Catherine does. I think that is demeaning, but I'll let her apologize. I'm Charlie Gibson of the Bookcase with Kate and Charlie.
- [00:50]
Kate Gibson
I apologize for nothing. I am a proud book nerd. I think everybody around should be a book nerd. It's an important moniker and I'm sticking with it. I don't care how much you protest. I don't feel it is pejorative. I feel that it is loud and proud.
- [01:04]
Charlie Gibson
Well, whatever it is, book lovers, book nerds, it's good to have all of you with us. And we're going to talk today about something that I think is really, really critical. There is a new report out from those who measure such things that there really is a crisis in terms of middle school kids. Now, you can define that any way you want. Six to eight, grades seven to nine, six to nine, whatever. The middle school kids, those middle school years, it is critical that they be reading. And if they're not reading well, you probably don't have a reader for life. So what are the numbers, Kate? They're not good?
- [01:40]
Kate Gibson
No. 30%. Only 30% of middle school students tested at the eighth grade are reading at grade level or above. That's a pretty daunting statistic. And this report also states a lot of these kids are going to need a full academic year of additional instruction to regain the ground. Those are pretty daunting statistics. And, you know, if you've listened to this show, and I know that you do that, we are champions of getting kids to read. It is so important not just to read, but to read critically, to analyze what they read, reflect on what they read, see themselves in what they read. It is so important. And so the fact that we as a country are losing them at the middle school level is tragic because reading is, you know, as Nate Bargetzi says, I believe reading is the key to smart.
- [02:30]
Charlie Gibson
Well, it is in many respects. I suspect a lot of people are saying in their own minds, well, Covid, I mean, Covid did that. But the report that you just quoted says that it's only down 5% from pre pandemic levels, that it was only 35% reading proficiency at grade level. Now it's down to 30. There are some statistics that we got from the folks at Penguin Random House that give me some hope. But what it underlines is you need to buy books for kids. These Statistics say that 57% of kids 4 to 7 are reading for fun, but that drops to 47% of the 8 to 12 year olds. I think those are the kids that discover phones and it drops off, as I say, from kids 4 to 7 are reading and kids 8 to 12, it drops off considerably. But those are for book buying families. What that says is you really need to be buying books to have books.
- [03:25]
Kate Gibson
In the Although one of the things that's great about this country, and I just want to emphasize this as well, because I know there are so many families out there who do not have expendable income right now. The library is there for you. There are ways to get books. Check out the lending libraries in your neighborhood. You know, the little houses that are outside on people's yards. There are ways to get books into the hands of kids, I promise you. So please don't just feel like you have to go to Barnes and Noble and fill up carts and carts. Also reading yourself. And again, this will come up in this interview because it comes up in every interview we do about how to get kids to read. Reading yourself. Don't be afraid to share what you're reading with your child. That is very important and will inspire them as well.
- [04:08]
Charlie Gibson
So we have a bunch of guests today for the podcast and we're going to start with Maya Daughtery. She is the author of this report and underlines how critical it is to get kids read. MAYA Dauphery.
- [04:26]
Maya Daughtery
Middle school students are declining both in growth and proficiency. And so what that means is students are not meeting the bar, the expectations for where their reading should be, but they're also not growing in their reading at the rate you would expect to see them grow. And this has been a systemic problem that we've seen in the data since COVID But I just want to be really clear. Covid did not create the middle school reading problem that we find ourselves in. It highlighted it, it exacerbated it. I was a middle school teacher for many years. You ask any middle school teacher and they will tell you we have seen for a long time that our students are struggling, making their way into and through text.
- [05:10]
Kate Gibson
So if it isn't Covid, why Do you think we're having a crisis, specifically in the middle school years right now?
- [05:17]
Maya Daughtery
I love this question so. Because I think one of the reasons is how we think about and talk about reading. Right. So I'm going to nerd out for just a second, so please allow me. When we, when I think about reading, that word is a load bearing wall. So in the early grades, reading really does mean understanding the sounds letters make, understanding how those sounds work together. So what we call phonics blending and segmenting, and that's getting through what I would like to call the mechanics of reading. That is one really important aspect of reading. If you can't do that, you really are probably not going to be a strong reader. On the other side of that, we have what we call comprehension, and that's gaining meaning from the text. And students get meaning at multiple layers. They get meaning at the word level, they get meaning at the sentence level, they get meaning at the paragraph and whole text level. Right. So reading both means the mechanics and the comprehension. In the secondary grades, students in most places move from having a standalone reading teacher to having multiple discipline specific teachers. And none of them have the shoulder the burden of teaching reading. At the same time, students encounter a wide and diverse body of, of increasingly complex text. So what does that mean? A kid sits down in English class. People think the English teacher is a reading teacher. I was an English teacher, I will tell you, until I went back to study reading, I was no more prepared to teach reading than your physics teacher. They're not the same thing. I really wasn't. I was like, whoa, you're supposed to do this. So but the people assign reading to the English teacher. And the English teacher probably does know a lot about comprehension. He or she does know a lot about text. They probably have a lot of strategies. But do they understand multisyllabic decoding? Do they understand syntax analysis? Do they understand how to diagnose a reading issue for a student? That's one class student leaves English, they go to science. What do they have in science? A body of text that has complex vocabulary, different organizational patterns and structures, different background knowledge. They leave science, they go to social studies. They have whole new vocabulary, different organizational structures. Now they have maps and charts and graphs, timelines. So across the day, students are encountering text in just about every area. The text looks different, it feels different. And a competent reader will know how to shift, like internally how they approach that text. But those are skills that are taught for many students. They're not intuitive and secondary teachers. And I'm Speaking as one, we are not prepared to teach the mechanics of reading in the ways that are unique to our individual disciplines.
- [08:19]
Kate Gibson
You say this is not a new problem. What are the effects of the problem? If we don't sort of step up for middle schoolers, what happens to them? And has it happened already? Have we started to see, see the effects of it already?
- [08:31]
Maya Daughtery
Oh, absolutely. This past the problem compounds. So we also do know, and this is also very consistent in the data, is that students who are in the bottom quartile, or 10th percent, the gap of their reading gets wider and wider at a faster rate. What that means is students who are already struggling to read, that struggle gets even. It, it, it intensifies in magnitude over time. Last year, the Atlantic wrote a whole piece about college students who no longer read full novels or texts. I have seen different reportings from students who are saying, I've graduated, but I'm not literate. We have talked or I have talked to entry level college professors who have said, I can't assign a text. My kids can't make it through. So we've seen lots of evidence anecdotally and lots of reporting that would suggest that students are not reading full text, complex text, or deeply complex text the way they were 30, 40, 50 years ago. I also see it in the children in my own life. So, for example, one of my favorite books in fifth grade was Roll of Thunder, Hear My Cry. My fifth grade class read Roll of Thunder, Hear My Cry in sixth grade. My sixth grade class read the Pearl by John, John Steinbeck, and we read Old man in the Sea by Ernest Hemingway. Okay. And I went to a public school in Detroit. We all read it. When I talked to my friend's kids, they're reading Roll of Thunder, Hear My Cry in ninth grade. And I'm like, well, that's interesting. Or. And they're reading Old man and the sea, 9th and 10th grade. So just within my own sphere of children, I know, I'm watching how texts that I know we read in elementary and middle school being pushed up to high school. But the popular notion was children learn to read by third grade, then they're good. And now we are at a place where we can say, that's just not true. You're always learning to read. In fact, when you're in middle school, you really should be spending instructional time doing things like decoding multisyllabic words. Right. And middle school teachers like teach decoding. Absolutely. You have to teach them how to decode a word with three or more syllables. You should still be teaching and practicing reading fluency. They should be doing reading fluency, absolutely right. So there are some of the rudimentary reading skills that grow in complexity throughout the years that we now know we have to pay academic attention to.
- [11:04]
Charlie Gibson
So what do we do? Specific reading instruction really sort of ends, I hear you saying, in fifth grade, and it should continue after that. What should we do?
- [11:15]
Maya Daughtery
We is a lot of people, and I am of the opinion that every single one of us has a role to play in a child's reading development. And I mean everybody. I mean parents, grandparents, cousins, big sisters, I mean teachers, I mean librarians. I mean the bus driver. One of my aunts is a bus driver and she has books on her bus. Every single one of us has a role to play. The report that I wrote talked about the problem from a policy level and it is intended for state and district level policymakers. So I will speak from that lens. And we recommend four things. Number one is that we need high quality grade appropriate assessments that provide specific data on the literacy needs of middle school students. So we need assessments that can assess a student's ability to decode multisyllabic words, their reading fluency, in addition to comprehension and vocabulary. We also need state and district policy makers to consider flexible uses of time. So one thing that, I mean, I can do many things. I like to think I can do all things. Bending the laws of physics is not one of them. There really is no more time. We will never get more time. So we need to rethink how the time that we have is used and consider flexible ways to schedule so that literacy development is supported throughout the entire school day. And there are districts I've heard of that are having really innovative conversations around time. I also believe that state and district policymakers should spend time to understand and support the unique literacy needs of middle schoolers across subjects and within disciplines.
- [13:01]
Kate Gibson
Seems to be that right now you can find articles in magazines and on the Internet that say snakes. Snakes have legs.
- [13:08]
Maya Daughtery
So, oh boy. Yes.
- [13:10]
Kate Gibson
So critical thinking and why that's important for reading, especially in the middle school ages. I wonder if you could talk about that.
- [13:17]
Maya Daughtery
Well, I define critical thinking as a way for the reader, learner, or student to navigate their way through a claim, through a position, through a text, through a sentence. Right. Do you understand what is being said, the position the author is coming from, and what's your ability to make sense or truth out of that? I will say, aside from a feeling of overwhelm, to me, that is one of the greatest challenges teachers Face. That's one of the greatest challenges we all face.
- [13:54]
Kate Gibson
You know, Maya, one of the things I love most about this conversation is not just that you're a policy writer, but you were also a teacher yourself. That's terrific. We don't get those perspectives as much as we should. So I'm interested. What did you do? What did you do to hook your kids and make them readers?
- [14:08]
Maya Daughtery
Let me tell you a short story. When I was an 8th grade teacher, I had a student. I can see his face as sure as I'm sitting here. He hated reading. And he made that very clear to me every day. Ms. Daughtery, I don't like reading. I know you don't, but you will. Okay? And in my classroom, I had a library, and there was a book on my library. It's very thick, and it's called A Short History of Nearly Everything by Bill Bryson.
- [14:34]
Katherine Rundell
Yeah.
- [14:35]
Maya Daughtery
And one of the practices I used to do in my classroom was something called the reading minute. And that's where you take a book and you find the most exciting part of the book, like the. That's. I mean, it's the best part of the book. And you read for no more than a minute, minute and a half, and you stop reading right before the exciting thing happens. And so what happens is, I mean, I did this with middle schoolers and high schoolers. We did it once a week. I'm not joking. They would all be literally leaned in, wrapped, and they would go, one rapping. I would say, you got to read the book. And I would close the book and they all. They would groan. And I would say, this is the book. This is the title. And I would put it back on the shelf, and without sale, somebody would get the book and they'd be like, Ms. Daughtery. Yep. So I read a passage from A Short History of Nearly Everything. This was a. Not a kid who told me, I don't like to read. He made that very clear, very thick book. I can't remember what the passage was. I put it on the shelf. Next day it goes, Ms. Daughtery, do you have that book? I said, I do. He goes, well, can I have it? You can take it. That's why it's here. He came back two months. This book might be four or five hundred pages. He had read every single page. And he came back with a hundred facts. He loved that book so much. I said, you know what? You can keep it. But. But from that point on, you know what really wasn't. You know what he stopped saying to me every day? I don't like to read. He really did. And he was so much more willing to engage. And I have so many stories I can share about my experience with children. If you give them the opportunity to discover text and discover rich text in a way that taps their imagination and their interest, then you can turn a student who will, who will declare proudly, I don't like reading, into first a sheepish reader, then a proud reader. And I will also say that also only works if the child has ongoing reading instruction. If they have the ability to decode words, to decode words that increase in their syllables, to decode sentences that have a rich vocabulary. So it all matters. Talking matters, vocabulary matters, sentence deconstruction matters. It all counts. So you can give the kid the book, but if they don't have the skills to navigate, won't work. If they have the skill to navigate it, but they have yet to find something that interests them that won't work. So both pieces have to come together. And that, guys, really is. It really is magic.
- [17:13]
Kate Gibson
And if any of you are devoted Kate and Charlie fans, you really should be because we're awesome. We did a piece on this a couple of weeks ago in Good Morning America. But of course, Good Morning America has a lot to fit into those few hours and so we had to truncate some of our conversations. So this is a great expanded conversation. But I also encourage you to watch the piece. Amanda McMaster is a terrific producer, so just do it to see her graphics. Cause she's really good. But if you go to Instagram, the Good Morning America book club page, you'll see the story posted in full from the GMA piece. And we wanted to expand on that conversation because again, we think this conversation is. You can't have it enough. You can't.
- [17:51]
Charlie Gibson
Yeah. When we come back, we're gonna be talking to a couple of authors who know well this market of kids in the 8 to 12 year old, 8 to 14 year old cohort, Rick Riordan, who has written the Percy Jackson series. I think Percy Jackson series has now read unofficially. I think the number is about 7 billion books. But it may not be that high. But the Percy Jackson. Your daughter Charlie loves Percy Jackson. I know. And we're.
- [18:18]
Kate Gibson
Oh my God.
- [18:18]
Charlie Gibson
Yeah. And we're also going to talk to Katherine Rundell, who is extraordinarily successful fantasy writer who has written a wonderful book called Impossible Creatures. We talked to her a few weeks ago about that book. But we'll talk to both of them about getting kids to read after we come back. Introducing Meta Ray Ban Display the world's.
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Kate Gibson
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Charlie Gibson
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Kate Gibson
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Maya Daughtery
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Kate Gibson
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Kate Gibson
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Maya Daughtery
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Katherine Rundell
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Charlie Gibson
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Kate Gibson
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- [20:06]
Kate Gibson
Sponsored by gsk. So welcome back. We've had this conversation about readers and how to get kids off screens and into books. And one of the things we've heard more than once is that generations have a tendency to elevate series. Like in my generation. I'm kind of embarrassed to admit this because I'm about to admit before the Internet that, you know, when I was growing up it was like Sweet Valley High and the Babysitters Club and those kinds of series. What about you?
- [20:41]
Charlie Gibson
I read a series of books written by a professional sports coach named Claire B. He wrote a series of books on the Chip Hilton series. Chip Hilton was a star in basketball, football and baseball and I loved those books. I read them all. I also read some of the Hardy Boy books, but those are many, many years ago. And when I was really young, second grade, third grade, I read Freddie the Pig. I love those books, Freddie the Pig. And of course, my favorite book in the world still is Charlotte's Web. It Will Be, is now, and always will Be.
- [21:13]
Kate Gibson
We're including the extended conversation with these two great authors who seem to have captured the imagination, we hope, of this generation of middle school readers.
- [21:22]
Charlie Gibson
Rick Riordan, who has written the Percy Jackson series, as I say, immensely popular. And Katherine Rundell, who wrote Impossible Creatures, and her new book is the Poisoned the Poison King.
- [21:34]
Kate Gibson
The Poison King. I just finished it, by the way. It's terrific. I loved it. She's right. I laughed out loud. There are wonderful creatures with great personalities and characters that stay with you. There's magic on every page. I just loved it. So I highly recommend picking that up as well.
- [21:50]
Charlie Gibson
She writes great fantasy. Here is Katherine Rundell and Rick Riordan. It's good to have both of you with us. Rick Riordan, let me start with you. Are there unique literary needs for middle schoolers? Reading needs?
- [22:08]
Rick Riordan
Speaking as a former classroom teacher for middle grades, I would say yes. And as a parent and as a middle grade author, I think in any capacity, I would answer yes to that. The middle grades are formative in so many ways. They're formative intellectually, socially, psychologically, physically. Everything is changing at that time in our lives, and that's why it's such a crucial pivot moment where we either create readers or we do not. And the habits that we instill in young readers at that time is, I would say, as critical, if not more, as when they are first learning the building blocks of reading in, say, what we in America would call the second grade. So it is a huge, huge moment of importance.
- [23:00]
Charlie Gibson
What are the unique needs? Catherine?
- [23:03]
Katherine Rundell
I think children at that age, they need a sense of autonomy, a sense that they can be thrust into the heart of an adventure. They need stories where they're heroes. They need a sense that they are the heroes of their own story. I think they need good jokes on every page. And I think they also need philosophy. I think they need the huge questions about love and death, about justice and revenge. I think you can trust children with an enormous amount. You can trust them with huge ideas.
- [23:33]
Kate Gibson
We seem to be at a crisis point in middle school reading. Only 30% of 8th graders are reading at grade level or above. So you guys seem to have created very popular series, series for generations that middle schools are embracing, starting with you. Rick, I wanted to ask you, is there a secret sauce for writing for this audience so that you get them to aspire and don't talk down to them and still meet them at their level.
- [23:58]
Rick Riordan
I'd agree with everything Katherine said. I think the elements of a good story should appeal to readers of any age. But it is, it is critically important with the middle grades, because I can tell you from my own classroom experience that they are very quick to tell you when something is not Hitting for them. If it does not feel relevant, if it is not engaging, if it doesn't feel like it has anything to do with their lives, they will tell you right away. And so the trick is to answer that all important question. Why am I doing this? Why am I reading this? The answer should be because you love it, because it's fun, because it's fascinating, because it opens new doors, and because you see something of yourself in the characters that you're reading about. That's the goal.
- [24:48]
Kate Gibson
Katherine, same question to you. What is the secret sauce for speaking to this audience? How do you capture their hearts, their attentions and their reading minds?
- [24:56]
Katherine Rundell
I think children are the most ruthless readers. They will not stand by while you elongate or pontificate. So you have to distill down and down and down what is most important until you get something really concentrated. And so for me, that would be things like mythical creatures that are a way of thinking about delight or fear or danger.
- [25:17]
Charlie Gibson
Well, I, I take the argument that, that kids need to see themselves in stories. So many authors have said to us. We started with Oprah Winfrey, who said I wasn't a reader until I found young black girls like myself in books. She said, until that, I was essentially going with any kid that had dark hair. But once I saw myself in a book, I was hooked. Now, Katherine, you write fantasy, so that's not everyday life for kids. And Rick, you write of demigods, so that's not everyday life for kids. So why do you think those particular approaches to middle school reading work so well? Katherine, let me start with you.
- [26:01]
Katherine Rundell
So I think fantasy is a way of injecting huge possibility into a story. So in my books, you might have a pet griffin, or you might fly on the back of a dragon, but those are also a way of thinking about daily life. You know, a dragon can be both a dragon, but it can also stand in for everyday terrors. So I think kids do understand that fantasy does map onto their real lives. And I think it can be for them. So just a form of escape, you know, a form of escape into something bigger and better, wilder.
- [26:34]
Rick Riordan
First, I love the line saluting a children's intelligence. I'm absolutely stealing that. That's, that's well said. But yes, absolutely, I'd agree. Fantasy is a way of examining our lives that is sometimes less, less threatening than real life can be. It allows us to look at our problems and our situations at a remove, but still see ourselves. And I think that's, that's been true of mythology as Long as we have had myths, that is what myths do. They look at the human condition writ large and the gods and the monsters and allow children to see themselves in these characters. That, yes, may not look like everyday kids, but if you think about the situation of being a demigod, for instance, of being half God and half mortal, every middle school child that I've ever taught or known feels caught between worlds. They're not quite children, they're not quite adults. They're trapped between what their friends expect of them and what their family expects. They are at an in between point. And so the condition of being a demigod speaks to them very much. They feel like every challenge is a heroic quest and every possible problem they face is a terrible monster. It feels like those stakes are exactly what they're up against.
- [28:02]
Kate Gibson
And Katherine, you use fantasy often as a metaphor for, as you say, adult concepts like, dare I say, climate change or animal protection. So how, I mean, is that something that you do consciously because it makes it easier for kids to deal with bigger adult problems?
- [28:19]
Katherine Rundell
Exactly that. I think there are questions that might seem to a child overwhelming, like something like climate change, but if you can cast it in the shape of griffins and sphinxes and unicorns, I think it is easier for them to metabolize, easier for them to face. And I think also it's a way to get the ideas under their skin, but still to offer them real delight and pleasure. So Impossible Creatures is in some ways, yes, about the idea of climate and loss and extinction, but it is also about snot jokes and big adventures. And I think he allows you to meld the two, you know, fantasy as philosophy's more gorgeously painted cousin.
- [29:05]
Kate Gibson
What is it that a lot of authors get wrong about middle school readers?
- [29:11]
Katherine Rundell
I think the thing that drives me most crazy are books that talk down to children, books that do not assume that they have, you know, the same capacities that we have. You know, a child is not a different species. You know, child love is real love. Child fear is real fear. Child fury is real fury. And so there are occasional sort of. The mass produced books that you can tell are probably written by committee or celebrities which feel like they haven't put enough thought and attention into them. And it seems to me that that is a, a great harm because it is children of this age, you know, when we are trying to make them into lifelong readers who deserve the very best of us.
- [29:56]
Rick Riordan
But it's not always about subject matter. It's about your audience, know who you're writing for, respect. As Catherine said who you're writing for and try to do them justice, try to give them your absolute best. There is a. A false conception sometimes that writing for children is easier than writing for adults. And if anything, my experience has been that the reverse is true. It is very challenging to write well for children in a way that will catch fire inside them and where you see the light in your eyes and where you're giving them a book that they want to stay up after bedtime under the covers with a flashlight to continue the next chapter, that's very difficult.
- [30:42]
Kate Gibson
When a kid comes up to you, Rick, and says, man, I love the Disney series. I can't get enough of the Disney series. But I'm not a book person, I'm not a reader. What do you say to those kids?
- [30:53]
Rick Riordan
I think that we have to acknowledge that there will always, unfortunately, be more non readers in the world than there are readers in the world. So I am not surprised. That does not make me feel bitter. It is disappointing to me, but not because of the young people that are saying that, but because there is a feeling for me that we as educators, we as a society, have failed them, that we have not given them the opportunities to find those books that they need to find. And it may not be fantasy. Fantasy certainly appeals, but it's not for everyone, and that's okay, too. It could be nonfiction, it could be realistic fiction. It could be mysteries or romance. It could be any number of books. There's no one size fits all when it comes to the reading canon. We have to be, again, respectful of the different readers and what interests them and what is going to get them excited about becoming a reader for life.
- [31:53]
Charlie Gibson
Catherine, is there a way? So many kids are now addicted to their screenshots. Is there a way to get them reading on their screens as opposed to playing games, et cetera. Is there a strategy, do you think?
- [32:07]
Katherine Rundell
I hope there might be. But it might well be that we need to start as a culture, maybe even with legislation moving away from seeing young people as having screens as normal, in that they do eat your attention like a wolf. And I think it is so hard to addict a child to something like a book when there is something that will give you a bright, shiny light every three seconds. And. And so it does seem to me like we as adults are going to have to be the ones to hold our governments to account and to act together to make sure that we don't lose a generation. We don't lose for them the delight of stories, you know, that. That richer, more textured delight of an unfolding idea. Because, of course, we also need readers if we are to have a democracy. You know, we need people who cannot be oppressed by other people's erudition, who have the weapon and armor that is learning and knowledge. And so I think it is something we will have to fight hard for.
- [33:16]
Rick Riordan
I would echo something that Katherine said that I think the most important thing that we as adults can do is model reading at home. If the adults in your Life, if you're 12 or 11 or 10, if the adults in your life make time to read, that sends an enormously important message. If the adults in your life never read, but they're telling you to read, well, that sends quite a different message. So that is the single most important thing. Are you surrounded by people who value reading? And if you're not, yes, you can become a reader, but it's exponentially harder.
- [33:55]
Charlie Gibson
Okay, Kathryn, I wonder, as I read Impossible Creatures, I was wondering, do young people get this better than adults? Do kids ability to imagine outstrip what adults can do?
- [34:09]
Katherine Rundell
I think maybe they do. I think one of the best questions I've ever been asked, it's happened three or four times for me, has been in signing cues where like a very cool 11 or 12 year old will come up to me and say, I know it's not true. Obviously it's not true. Obviously the archipelago doesn't exist. Obviously is it true? And that the idea that their imaginations are big enough to hold the possibility of it being real, that's a real thrill for me.
- [34:44]
Kate Gibson
So next week we will climb off our soapbox, I promise. But it's not a soapbox we plan on abandoning. You know, we don't want to be didactic, but kids losing the ability to read for pleasure in our book is a real tragedy. The same way we believe restricting books in libraries is a real tragedy. We owe it to our kids to make them readers. It makes them better educated, it makes them more empathetic. It opens their eyes to all sorts of worlds. There's no limit to what you can do when you read just for the joy of it.
- [35:14]
Charlie Gibson
Yep. And I take away so many things. Everybody says, read to your kids. Everybody says, have your kids read to you. Everybody says, make sure there are books in front of the kids. I think your admonition about, if you can't afford it, get to the library, get to the lending libraries that are around. There's no excuse for not having books in the house, and there's no excuse for having your kids see you read or Your grandchildren see you reading.
- [35:40]
Kate Gibson
I don't think I told you this story, by the way. I'm in the process of trying to help along my son's schooling and teaching him to read. And we've been trying to get simpler books that are about his favorite subject. What is his favorite subject?
- [35:52]
Charlie Gibson
Dinosaurs. Dinosaurs.
- [35:54]
Kate Gibson
Exactly. Dinosaurs. Dinosaurs. More dinosaurs and more scaly lizards that are gross. I'm sorry. Maybe they weren't gross. I wasn't there. But at any rate, contrary to popular belief.
- [36:03]
Charlie Gibson
But I was.
- [36:03]
Kate Gibson
I was, you know, but I was. And there are nights where it's hard. Like, there are nights where he feels like reading is just too much work and he doesn't want to. And as much as I model, maybe he feels insecure about his ability to read books. But we had this magic moment the other day where he brought him a book about his favorite subject. And I said, it's time you read this line. And he started reading the line, and we got to the word dinosaur. And I was like, all right, buddy Jack, meet your favorite word in the world. Favorite word in the world, meet Jack. And he was like, that's the word dinosaur. And I said, that is the word dinosaur, buddy. And he'll never forget it now. Like, it was this kind of great moment where, like, this word that he has been saying and obsessing about for years, and finally he sees it on a page and learns how to spell it out. And it was. It's magical when you have those moments. And I love committing to the stupid voices, even if I regret, maybe the accents that I slap onto certain characters or what have you. But it really can be a joy, and you don't want your kids to miss that amazing experience.
- [37:02]
Charlie Gibson
I remember the first time each of you, you and your sister picked up a book and went upstairs and you were just gonna read, and you didn't need us there. You were just gonna read on your own. We'll remind you of the folks who make this podcast possible, and we have a coda from both Rick Riordan and Katherine Rundell.
- [37:17]
Kate Gibson
The book Case with Pete and Charlie Gibson is a production of ABC Audio and Good Morning America. It is edited by Tom Butler of TKO Productions. Our executive producer is Simone Swink. We want to make mention of Amanda McMaster, Sabrina Kohlberg, Arielle Chester at Good Morning America, and Josh Cohan from ABC Audio.
- [37:35]
Maya Daughtery
Follow the bookcase wherever you get your.
- [37:36]
Kate Gibson
Podcasts, and be sure to listen, rate and and review. If you'd like to find any of the books mentioned in this episode, we have them linked in the episode description.
- [37:46]
Rick Riordan
My first question to parent would be are you picking up a book for fun on the weekend? And if you're not doing that, why are you expecting your child to do that? Because you are their model.
- [37:58]
Katherine Rundell
If they are reading what they're getting is that muscle of delight in words. It doesn't really matter how they're doing it. It could be the back of a cereal packet or it could be epic poetry. It doesn't matter. What we want is for them to associate words and just real lasting pleasure.
- [38:21]
Charlie Gibson
Morning Zoe. Got donuts.
- [38:23]
Kate Gibson
Jeff Bridges why are you still living above our garage?
- [38:26]
Charlie Gibson
Well, I dig the mattress and I want to be in a T mobile commercial like you.
- [38:31]
Kate Gibson
Teach me so Dana oh no, I'm not really prepared. I couldn't possibly at T Mob we'll get the new iPhone 17 Pro on them. It's designed to be the most powerful iPhone yet and has the ultimate pro camera system.
- [38:45]
Charlie Gibson
Wow, impressive. Let me try.
- [38:47]
Maya Daughtery
T Mobile is the best place to.
- [38:48]
Charlie Gibson
Get iPhone 17 Pro because they've got the best network.
- [38:52]
Kate Gibson
Nice. Jeffrey, you heard them.
- [38:54]
Charlie Gibson
T Mobile is the best place to get the new iPhone 17 Pro on us with eligible traded in any condition. So what are we having for launch?
- [39:03]
Kate Gibson
Dude, my work here is done. The 24 month build credit is on experience beyond for well qualified customers plus tax and $35 device connection charge credit send and balance due if you pay off earlier Cancel Finance Agreement. IPhone 17 Pro 256 gigs $1,099.99 a new line minimum $100 plus a month plan with auto pay plus taxes and fees required. Best mobile network in the US based on analysis by Oklahoma Speed Test Intelligence data 1H 2025 visit t mobile.com.