12 Mornings of Christmas

Summary

The Book Lisp with Jon Ryan & Sarah Colonna
Episode 12: Mornings of Christmas
November 10, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this lively and humorous episode, Jon Ryan and Sarah Colonna dive into their November book club pick, 12 Days of Christmas by Debbie Macomber, and use its themes as a springboard for chatting about personality types, relationships, holiday traditions, and the delicate art of conversation—particularly in the morning! Centered around their trademark banter, the couple explores how the characters in the book reflect their own real-life preferences and quirks, especially when it comes to morning routines, values vs. personalities in relationships, and celebrating the holidays. Listeners are also treated to tangents about childhood Christmases, family dynamics, and the challenges of being partnered with someone whose approach to life may differ from your own.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Book Club Selections & Seasonal Themes (03:00–04:12)

• Current Book: 12 Days of Christmas by Debbie Macomber ("a Hallmark story in a book")
• Upcoming Book: Christmas Presents by Lisa Unger – Jon read it early, hinting it's "a little murdery, less psycho" and "maybe not as suspenseful" as Sarah's usual picks. (03:32)
• Patreon Short Story: The Yellow Wallpaper
• Sarah’s Comedy Tour: Brief mention of Sarah’s upcoming shows and encouraging listeners to check out her website for dates (05:00–06:23)

2. Book Talk – 12 Days of Christmas: Personalities Collide (06:53–15:00)

Main Plot & Character Discussion

• Julia (protagonist) sets out to infuse holiday cheer into her grumpy neighbor Kane’s life as research for her blog—a classic “Scrooge-turns-sweet” Hallmark premise.
• Sarah identifies more with Kane than Julia when it comes to being chatty in the mornings:
  • “She gets on the elevator. She's real chatty, right?... I'm not rude at Starbucks. I want to be friendly, but they don't all want me to chat with them the whole time either…” (10:07–11:04, Sarah Colonna)
• Jon gives the “order your drink and move on” perspective:
  • “When you get to the front line, order your drink and move on. I can't stand it when…you think you need to talk two minutes to the bartender… All you're doing is pissing off everyone behind you.” (11:04, Jon Ryan)
• Both agree that forced chit-chat, especially in public spaces or first thing in the morning, is not for them.

Notable Moment

• “I'm a little more Kane than I am Julia. And I'm not a Scrooge, but I'm with Kane a couple times…” (09:51–10:07, Sarah Colonna)

3. Mornings, Silence, and Relationship Dynamics (15:00–22:00)

Morning Routines

• The couple embraces a slow, mostly quiet start to their day, with a ritual of coffee, lemon water, and sometimes “morning sex,” which they discuss with humor and candor.
  • “We do our wordle. We do our connections… After that...we bang. And then we just have a nice time having sex in the morning.” (15:39–15:56, Sarah Colonna)

Family Contrasts

• Jon grew up with “Buddy the Elf” types—his mom and siblings are extremely chatty. (“What's your favorite color? What are you doing tonight? …I came home one time… Mom said, who sat beside you? …I put in my fricking headphones.” 16:44–17:45, Jon Ryan)
• Sarah’s mom is also a compulsive talker, never letting silence sit in a car or during a movie, but she’s not as likely to approach strangers.

Insight

• The hosts reflect that a partnership between two “shot out of a cannon” morning types wouldn’t work for them. They need someone who matches their “ease into the day” vibe.

4. Values vs. Personality in Relationships (22:44–36:24)

Open-Ended Discussion: What’s More Important—Shared Values or Shared Personality?

• Jon poses: “What's more important in a relationship? Shared values or shared personality?” (22:44)
• Sarah argues for values, using examples from reality TV:
  • “My immediate cringe or oh, no, is usually something based on values…it’s a harder one to get around if you’re very on the opposite ends of the spectrum.” (23:50–27:24)
  • Shared views on kids, religion, politics, etc. tend to make or break relationships more than things like Burning Man preferences or morning chat energy.
• Jon agrees, especially in today’s more polarized world:
  • “I feel like it'd be pretty hard to find a couple that were completely opposite on the political spectrum and be together right now.” (27:24–27:47)
  • Jon also shares about differing religious backgrounds in his own family, and the importance of not expecting people to “change their mind” about wanting children.
    • “If someone says, I don't want children, it's not up to you to say, ‘Oh, you'll change your mind’... It's none of your business.” (32:08–32:36)
• The conversation underlines the need for honesty, respect, and the ability to “read the room” in both family and romantic relationships.
• Sarah: “Values…that is what comes up, I think, harder for people and more important for people. Whereas personality things…I would probably just figure it out.” (31:18–31:47)

Notable Quotes

• “People with any kind of intelligence, social intelligence, can read the room a little bit… Maybe I just let my wife ease into the day…” (31:47–32:06, Jon Ryan)
• “But I do think there's values…that are deal breakers. And I think there's more personalities that are different that can mend together.” (33:14–33:25, Jon Ryan)

5. Childhood Christmas Traditions & Holiday Surprises (36:29–43:20)

Ryan Family Traditions

• Stockings were laid out in assigned "corners" each Christmas Eve, and Santa's gifts were unwrapped to reflect how “elves don’t make boxes at the North Pole.” (36:32–37:44)
• The whole family walked down the stairs together to see the gifts for the first time. (36:53–37:04)

Colonna Family Christmas

• Sarah would peek at her presents—sometimes even into adulthood! (“I just had a little sticker on that said ‘to Sarah from Santa,’ probably because she knew I'd already seen it.” 39:31–40:13)
• She admits surprise has never been as important to her as Jon, who cherishes reactions to gifts.

Spoiler Attitudes

• Sarah relates her tendency to seek out spoilers in TV and gifts: “I will Google the end of something while I’m watching it and then I’ll relax and finish it.” (42:33–42:48)
• Jon gently “sat her down” early in their relationship to explain how much surprises mean to him, and Sarah has since reformed—at least when it comes to his gifts! (41:28–41:46)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Jon, on forced chatter:
  "Order your drink and move on. ...All you're doing is pissing off everyone behind you." [11:04]
• Sarah, on being more Kane than Julia:
  "As far as the morning getting on an elevator with your neighbor who's super chatty... I tend to lean towards being a Kane rather than a Julia." [12:17]
• On shared values vs. personality:
  "My immediate cringe...is usually something based on values...I do think values would be a harder one to get past." [24:02–27:24, Sarah Colonna]
  "I feel like it'd be pretty hard to find a couple that were completely opposite on the political spectrum and be together right now." [27:47, Jon Ryan]
• On childhood Christmas:
  “None of the gifts were from Santa were wrapped...the elves, when they build it, they don't build the boxes, just build the toys.” [37:15, Jon Ryan]
• On spoilers:
  "I will Google the end of something while I'm watching it and then I'll relax and finish it..." [42:44, Sarah Colonna]
  "I think early on, our relationship, I think I sat you down and give you a speech... I really want to see your reaction when you open it because that's really special to me." [41:28, Jon Ryan]

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• 03:00 – Book picks and club housekeeping
• 06:53 – Plot and initial reactions to 12 Days of Christmas
• 10:00 – Chatty vs. curmudgeonly characters: relatable?
• 15:00 – Morning routines, sex, and silence in relationships
• 16:44 – Family backgrounds on talkativeness
• 22:44 – Shared values vs. personality: deep dive
• 33:25 – Can opposites attract? (personal anecdotes)
• 36:32 – Childhood Christmas traditions
• 39:29– Peeking at presents and the great surprise debate
• 42:44 – Spoilers in life, gifts, and TV

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Episode Tone & Final Thoughts

The episode is packed with signature Sarah & Jon banter: playful, slightly irreverent, honest, and warm. The couple’s conversational digressions (from the correct way to approach baristas to how to unbox Christmas gifts) keep the show grounded in their lived experience and make for relatable, entertaining listening—especially for couples or book clubbers who sometimes find themselves on either side of the “Julia” or “Kane” spectrum. Their dynamic reinforces the underlying theme: authentic connection comes from understanding, compromise, and a healthy appreciation for both chatty and quiet mornings.

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Next Week:
Join Jon and Sarah for week three of 12 Days of Christmas by Debbie Macomber. December’s book is Christmas Presents by Lisa Unger, and Patreon members, don’t forget The Yellow Wallpaper is your short story pick!

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Transcript

[A]

Hi, I'm Sarah Colonna.

[B]

And I'm John Ryan.

[A]

And you're listening to the Book List. The Book List.

[B]

The Book Lisp.

[A]

Oh, that's right. You're listening to the Book Lisp. Hello and welcome to the Book Lisp with John Ryan and Sarah Colonna. Ryan. Hi, John. Hello.

[B]

How are you?

[A]

I feel like I always try to really shoot out of a cannon when to start this off. Hello, welcome to the Book List. And then you go, okay. Yeah. Hey. Hey, guys.

[B]

Yeah, well, it just feels insincere when you and I were just in the same room talking, you know, and then you're like, john, how you doing today? This is wkoz, the rock station.

[A]

Will you do. This is very random, but I want you to do what you did for our friend Sarah Tilly the other day. So our friend Sarah Tilly one she, she texted me and she said she won tickets to see Brian Adams and Pat Benatar now and wanted to know if John and I want to go with her and her husband. We're in, of course. But there was no explanation of how she won tickets. And I was, I. She's a big SVP at a big company. I assume it had something to do with that, some kind of raffle charity, something they did. But John thought that maybe she called into a radio station like it's the 90s.

[B]

And just the thought, the thought of our friends. She's a very put together, very high up business person in corporate America. Just think of her like at 7:55 in the morning trying to be color number 12 on the radio to get these bright. Just like cracks me up.

[A]

And you were like, it's. This is Sarah Tilly. Listen to the Wolf. Do it for me. Come on.

[B]

Hi, I'm Sarah Tilly and I listen to WZOK the Wolf every morning at 9 o'. Clock. And I am a Wolf knight. Whoa.

[A]

We left her a message doing that right after because we were like, I know that's not what happened, but also, I wish that's what happened. She did clarify that she won. She did. Like it was an auction thing at work or something. But it's a better story that she.

[B]

Said it's from a radio station. That's what you. That's the first thing. Maybe just because we're 90s kids and 80s kids, that's what we think about. Because remember in the day it would.

[A]

Be like I said, it was a radio station. She never did.

[B]

Oh, you just made that part up.

[A]

Yeah, she said she won them and I was like, do you would have been a radio station? Like, how do you win tickets?

[B]

Oh, yeah, that's the only logical way. If you're like an 80s 90s kid, it's the only logical way you can win tickets to something is through a radio station.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

There's no other way.

[A]

That's right. Welcome to your November book list, week number two where we are reading 12 Days of Christmas by Debbie McCom now and then our December book, which I announced. I announced it last week and I know it's called the Christmas Present. Oh, Christmas Presents by Lisa Unger. And John started it and he doesn't seem to think it's the best of my books so far.

[B]

I read it all.

[A]

Oh, I thought you were just still working on it.

[B]

No, I read it.

[A]

So is it just not as suspenseful as my other books? Oh, let's not on the December pick here.

[B]

No, I'm not on it. I think it's good. I thought it was good.

[A]

We were trying to go with a theme here. 12 Days of Christmas, Christmas presents. I googled and googled about thrillers set in the Christmas and this and this. I talked about this last week. Anyway, I think I'm excited because I haven't read it and I do think Lisa Unger is a great author. So we'll see. Can't all be winners, kid.

[B]

This one has candy corn in it.

[A]

That'S from Bad Santa. So anyway, no, we are. I'm not. I am not lowering expectations for November or December. I think they're both going to be really fun picks and very different and maybe my December picks a little bit different than my usual one. It's a little murdery. Less psycho. Yeah. And anyway, so that's what we're reading. And then if you are on Patreon, we are reading the yellow wallpaper for the short story. Join us on Patreon. We have so much fun over there. We do a short story every. We review it every 15th of the month. It is truly always a short story. Not. Not too many pages for you to read to keep up with us. And then on the 5th and the 25th, we also do random Patreons over there. We do them all on video as well in case you want to watch them instead of just listen. So we have a little fun over on patreon. It's only $5 a month and join the book list winners Facebook group. Now, if you are in snow mass Colorado, December 17, it's right outside of Aspen. I already know a couple people wrote me and said they're actually going to be there that week for skiing and vacation. I'm performing there at the hall at the Collective and to. Tickets should be on sale by now. If they're not, they will be because they're, like, closed right now for off season. So I. I don't know when they're putting tickets up, but. And then Spokane Comedy Club, New Year's Eve, you got to come see me. Spokane Comedy Club. We're gonna have so much fun. John will be with me. And then Tacoma Comedy Club, January 2nd and 3rd. After that, I have shows at the Wild Resort and. And Casinos. Wild Roast Resort and casinos in three different cities in Iowa. They're all on my website. One's on the sixth, the other ones are on. They're closer to the end of the month in February. And then February 20th and 21st, I have Chicago City Winery and St. Louis City Winery. And then the week before that, which is Valentine's weekend, I'm at the Skyline Comedy Club. Mary Radzinski will be with me for that. So all those are on Sarah Colona dot com. And then there's even more after that. But I just wanted to get those dates out there for everyone because having a busy few months coming up.

[B]

Get your tickets. That's a lot. You got a lot of shows coming up. You know last night when you opened that bottle of wine, and then you're like, here, taste it. And I was like, oh, it's no good. And you're like, should I throw it down the drain? I wish you would have, because now I'm drinking it and it's awful.

[A]

Oh, I'm sorry you don't like it.

[B]

It's not a very good wine.

[A]

Okay, well, I'm sorry you don't like it Sometimes. Every once in a while, there's, like I said, they can't all be winners, kids.

[B]

You don't like it either. Gives me instant heartburn.

[A]

Yeah, just. I don't know. We just grabbed a random bottle of wine from the store. I. I did grab a random bottle of wine from the store one day, and it, listen, didn't turn out to be great. And it's also, I think, been in a. Been sitting around for a while, so that's also probably part of the problem. Now, as you guys know, we don't do spoilers on the book until week four, so we are here to discuss random topics pulled From John's pick, 12 Days of Christmas by Debbie Macomber, which is. Well, I don't even have to tell you. The plot. You guys get it. It's a Hallmark story in a book. This lady's trying to change her neighbor from being Scrooge to loving Christmas. The one thing about the neighbor that. That. That hit me right away that was mentioned.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Is that he has an Irish setter. And I used to have an Irish setter. John, what do you think his name was?

[B]

Rusty.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Iris.

[A]

Rusty. Yeah. So, uh, Mo. Many of you, if you listen to, have listened to us in the past. I know we've discussed this, and also I've discussed it with Mary over on Are youe My podcast. But my mom is very literal. We. We talked about this on another POD Book list podcast. But my mom's very literal in the name naming of her animals. And her.

[B]

Well, here's the thing is she wrote obituaries her whole life. There's not a lot of leeway in obitu. There's not a lot of free form writing when it comes to obituaries. You kind of stick to your lane, you know, you don't really vary off that lane. And so she's just a literal person. I think that's part of the reason why, in my opinion, it is.

[A]

I think so too. Although she did. I mean, Rusty was before she ever worked at the funeral home, to be fair.

[B]

Well, maybe she was meant to work there then.

[A]

Yeah, but. So we had an Irish setter. His name was Rusty. And what a. What a. What a beautiful dog. Irish setters are beautiful, beautiful dogs. Friendly. He used to put his little head up on our kitchen table and he. Yeah. Anyway, I got nothing. I just love Rusty. So I just wanted to mention I used to have an Irish setter. Now, the other thing that mostly stuck out to me about this is that what's our. What's our guy? Kane is our guy. The antagonist name. Would we call him the antagonist in the story? Sure he is. What's her name?

[B]

Julia.

[A]

Julia. She's determined. Julia Gulia. She's determined to make Kane. And we'll get into the nuts and bolts of it when we discuss it on week four. But the overall point of this is she's determined to make him a more friendly their neighbors. She wants him to be more friendly. She thinks he's Ebony's or Scrooge. She's trying to get this job where if she has this successful blog so she can get the job. So she decides to make her blog about turning this guy into a happy, happy camper over the holidays. I gotta be honest. And I'll get more into it. When we do week, I'm a little more Kane than I am Julia. And I'm not a scrooge. I'm not a scrooge.

[B]

No.

[A]

But I'm with Cain a couple times, and these are all kind of early on, so I don't think, like, I'm spoiling anything. But she gets on the elevator. She's real chatty, right? Yes. She. In the morning, first thing in the morning, real chatty. And he says, God, I'm not really a morning person. You're a morning person. Kind of says to her, like, you're real chatty. She's. At some point in the book, she goes to Starbucks. She sees him there. He just gets his coffee and goes. She chats it up, knows everyone's name, is friends with the barista. I think there's a. I think there's a middle ground here. Yes, I am. I'm not rude at Starbucks. I want to be friendly, but they don't all want me to chat with them the whole time either, because they got a job to do. They're not interested. I used to work in restaurants and bars. I don't want you to take all my time. I'm trying to get to the next person.

[B]

Restaurant, bars, lineups, anywhere. When you get to the front line, order your drink and move on. I can't stand it when there's a busy restaurant and you got to the front line and you think you need to talk two minutes to the bartender, waitress, barista. All you're doing is pissing off everyone behind you. This isn't the time of day. Yes, I don't need to. You don't need to know how that barista is doing. You don't. And they don't need to know how you're doing. You just need to get your freaking caramel macchiato with double whipped and get to the back of the line.

[A]

She likes her peppermint mocha in this story. Have you ever had a peppermint mocha?

[B]

No, I'm a fully grown man.

[A]

Okay, good point. I. Yeah, she. It's just. It's unnecessary to. To be as talkative as she is. It's unnecessary to be as rude as he is. So I do feel like I'm going to probably, when we do our full review, come out somewhere in the middle on both of these two. I'm gonna. I'm gonna. I'm gonna have problems with both of them. But as far as the morning getting on an elevator with your neighbor who's super chatty. I tend to lean towards being a cane rather than a Julia.

[B]

I agree with that. I've lived in several apartments as close as two years ago. I lived in an apartment in. When I was living in Canada. Like the interior hallway apartments with elevators. You know what I'm saying? And I still. I would look out my door to make sure no one was there so I could like run to the elevator and not have to talk to you one in the morning. And especially in fricking Canada. Canadians, they're very nice people. Sometimes a little bit too nice in the morning. They want to have a conversation in the morning and be like, can you not talk to me until like noon? I remember when I played football at the NFL for years, everyone knew not to talk to me until walkthrough. Walkthrough started at 11:15. That's when you could talk to me. We got to work at 7:15. I needed a four hour buffer before you could talk to me.

[A]

And I was just. John was the Ebenezer of football. In case I just.

[B]

I had just done it for too long.

[A]

But we. But it's funny because it doesn't. There's no right or wrong. Right for how people are. I'm just saying what I relate to. Like John and I are both.

[B]

There's no right or wrong, but there's people on opposite sides. And why can't the people on the far side read? What? Read the Room. If you walk into an elevator and you say good morning and they're like, hey, what'd you do last night? Not much. Wow. What are you gonna do tonight? Probably nothing. You have to be able to read the Fricking Room to be like, maybe this person doesn't really want to talk this morning.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And that drives me crazy. If you can't read the room.

[A]

I know. So I have to save some of this for the full book review because it's part of the whole thing about the book and the plot. But agreed. And like forcing someone to try to read the. You know, forcing someone into your way of. Of thinking. Is it my favorite. So just because. And I. And I haven't even finished the book yet. So I understand this guy needs a little Christmas spirit. But I'm just saying I don't need if someone. If I'm clearly not in the mood or as John and I have talked about so many times. Like I travel all the time by myself as a standup. I've done it for years and years. And John has traveled by himself for years and years playing football. And you go out and you do things by yourself and you're like, I'm good. I'm. This is my downtime before I go do this thing that. That is. Is very social and very talkative on stage and meeting people after for me. Right. So my downtime beforehand is, Is great. I love it. I don't, I don't need Julia to come up to me and ask me why I'm not talkative at 8 in the morning. So I do, I do relate more to Kane on the, on that end. And I think you and I both, Both do, because John and I wake up in the morning, we say, good. How you doing? How'd you sleep? What's. You know, do you have any nightmares? Hey, did the cat wake you up? Whatever. We have a little. It's not like we don't have conversation. We make our coffee. I go, I go make my lemon water. I love my lemon water. In the morning. Sometimes John makes it for me and his hands are stronger, so it has more lemon in it. It's real good. It's my favorite. But I. After that, there's a. Like, we do have a little bit of silence. We don't. Maybe we do our wordle. We do our connections. Maybe we're catching up on something. I'm not suggesting people wake up and get on their phones. I'm just saying we kind of have our own sort of waking up, doing our thing and then. And then we bang. And then we just have a nice time having sex in the morning.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Tmi. I don't care. Just letting you know. Yeah. So we have our morning sex and then we go on with our day. We don't necessarily have to talk during it, after it, before it.

[B]

No, we both know where we're going.

[A]

Those.

[B]

Both know what we're doing.

[A]

We know. We know what's going on. You know, we. We finish our coffee, give each other the side eye, little, hey, okay, here we go. And I'm just saying there doesn't have to be a lot of conversation. Some people wake up. I. I just don't think that you and I would be together if one of us woke up shot out of a cannon. Because I think it would just be the wrong personality match for both of us. Do you think that's fair to say?

[B]

I think that's 100% fair. Say. You know, where I. Where I think I get it from is the people in my family are like Buddy the elf, my mom, my sisters, my brother. My dad was more like me. But those four, they're all Like, Buddy the Elf. They're like, what's your favorite color? What are you doing tonight? What's your favorite food? What does it taste like? Do you want to have it now? I'll go with you. I can help you. Where are you at? What's your mom's name? That's my. That's my family. I came home. I came home one time. This is a few years ago. I came home on.

[A]

We love them so much, but he's not lying. A lot of questions.

[B]

I came home on an airplane, and mom said, who sat beside you? I'm like, mom, I came here by myself. A stranger sat beside me. What was their name? What did they do for a living? What did you talk to them?

[A]

Mom?

[B]

I put in my fricking headphones. I never thought twice about that person ever again. That person could literally jump up and kiss me on the cheek right now. And I would be like, who are you? I put no notice to who was beside me.

[A]

Your mom would have landed with that person's name, Social Security number, phone number, address, places to send gift cards. And this is not. Again, this is not a bad thing.

[B]

No, they're very friendly. They're also very Canadian. I think that's part of the Canadian culture, where it's like, you can't just stand in line at a grocery store without having a conversation with the person in front or behind you.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And that's why I had to leave Canada. That is why there's. You know, there's just not a world that I could go to the store every day and talk to everybody.

[A]

I mean, my. It's funny because we both did grow up with very talkative families. My mom can talk, and she can talk, and then she'll keep talking, and then she can talk some more. And it's funny, though, I don't. It. She's not necessarily the one to walk up and. And talk to a stranger. I mean, she is, but I'm just saying. I don't. If you got an elevator with her, she probably just. I don't think she's really that.

[B]

No, I don't. No.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

She's more like once you get her going, you can't. There's. It's like a runaway train.

[A]

There's no stopping her with her family, her friends, people. She. She just wants to talk. And then if there's silence, she thinks something's wrong. Right. So if. If. If we're. If you're watching a movie, she's talking because she thinks we got to talk. And you're like, no, but we're watching a movie. It's just two hours of silence while we watch the movie. And that's the only time I ever want movies to be longer is when I watch it with my mom. No, I love my mom, so she's the absolute best. But she is, she's a talker. She, like, she's a talker. She's one of those people who thinks you have to fill space. Right. You have to fill it with talking. And so if you're in a car ride, like I said, I, again, I, I, if I've, I've been in so many car rides in Los Angeles by myself, so I'm just used to tuning out, listening to my serious radio, listening to whatever, a Dateline podcast, whatever it is I'm doing. Maybe I'm listening to Rage against the Machine because it's one of those days, whatever I'm doing. And I, I don't, there's no way to talk to. But when my mom comes in town and we drive her somewhere, drive out to Malibu. That's a long drive. Mm. There's a lot of talk, A lot.

[B]

Of, A lot of talking time. Well, it's like 45 minutes of talking time.

[A]

Yeah. Because she's just like, why would it be quiet in here? Why would we do that? So there's just the different mindsets on that. And so I think, for me, I'm glad I personally found someone who has the same level of we don't really need to do that. We'll talk when we need to talk and we can, and we can both do our own thing. Right. Does that make any sense? I'm glad I found that because I think if, if, if I was, if a Julia was forced on me, I don't think that I would, I would respond to it in kind. I think I would say, this isn't for me, dog.

[B]

Yeah, I guess. I mean, for me, I don't think I've ever like, like been with someone day to day basis other than you that I would really have anything to compare it to. But I think I would have known right away if I'd moved in with someone and they would just like woke up shot out of a fucking cannon trying to tell their fucking feelings or something that I want to hear about.

[A]

Well, don't pretend you're not a sensitive man. You're a very sensitive guy.

[B]

I am a sensitive guy, but Martha Stewart said it best in her documentary, I don't want to hear about your feelings, which is talking about relationships.

[A]

Right. Remember that? You know how I always relate everything back to an episode of Friends? But remember when Phoebe. Phoebe moved in with. It was Michael Rapaport played the character.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Remember? And he woke up. He's all. She thinks he's all, like, sensitive and whatnot. And he wakes up and he's a cop. And then he. And then they move in together, and he wakes up on one morning and the birds are chirping, and they're both like, oh, the birds are tripping. And then he, like, pulls out.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

She's like, what the. Anyway, that. That. I mean, an extreme version of me in the morning, but I don't know. Just thought it out. Sorry.

[B]

I never know if Michael Rappaport is crazy or amazing. He's. He's stuck somewhere in between because he's. Comes across as pretty crazy these days. But he's also kind of awesome.

[A]

I know he's super talented, and I find him funny. I mean, we listen to Howard Stern and he calls in there a lot, so I find him entertaining on that show. And I would. I think he'd be a good time, but I don't know. Everyone's crazy. What do you got, John?

[B]

Well, I don't know. Should we go back to some Christmas stuff or should we talk about more, like the relationship stuff while we're on the topic?

[A]

Why don't we. Okay a little more relationship stuff while we're on the topic? We got two more months to cover Christmas.

[B]

Here's a question that's based a little bit on these. These Julia and Kane. What's more important in a relationship? Shared values or shared personality?

[A]

That's a.

[B]

Value versus personality.

[A]

Wow, That's a really good question. I. My. My gut would say right now that it would be values, I think, because I think personality wise. You know, let's. Okay, let me. Let me throw in if you guys listen to Are you my podcast too. If not, no worries. But we. We cover Married at First Sight over there. My. Me and my very good friend, slash very funny comedian Mary Radzinski. And on that show, which you can say with any dating show. So that's. I'm just comparing it to that Love is Blind, all these shows. You know, I think more and more of these shows are getting harder to have people have real.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Connections on because people are looking for the fame instead of actual. Especially Love is Blind or something where it's on Netflix and it's like it's just watched by millions and millions of people. And Married at First Sight, maybe like a Small scale.

[B]

I didn't get on to Love island, so I'm doing Love is Blind. I also had an application into the Bachelorette and blow on and on and on. These people have agents now.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. The one girl in Love is Blind this month was like. Or this season. The Casey girl was. She tried out for, like, three different ones. Her boyfriend wanted her, you know, to be on one. All these different things. But so point being, though, I think when you see people start kind of meshing on, even on these shows, which I know is not an example of real life dating, but I'm just saying my immediate cringe or oh, no. Is usually something based on values. It's usually, oh, this isn't gonna work. And. And. And values means a bunch of different things in my mind. I'm talking about kids or how you raise them, but. Or how you view family or how you view friends, of course, religion, of course politics. All those things factor in. But I think you can. You can be sort of amenable to someone's different personality quirks because you go, oh, you. Like. Like, there's this one guy I married at first sight this month that's obsessed with Burning man, and the girl is like, I don't fucking ever want to go to Burning Man.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

Like, that's like a deal breaker for me.

[A]

Oh, he's. He. But. But the thing is, he's like, he doesn't. He. She goes just. She's basically saying, just, I don't care. Just go to Burning Man. Right. And. And I've even. I haven't gotten. I think it gets. I think it gets more contentious about Burning man later on. I. We're only doing two.

[B]

Oh, my God, like four days a year.

[A]

Yeah. But I'm just saying this guy is, like, making it his personality. Instead of just going, I go to Burning Man. That's the thing. I do. You don't have to come with me. And great. I don't want to go with you. Great. See you after that weekend. Like, that's What. If you and I had anything like that, that's. That would be the conversation. Yeah, I don't really want to go to that Sarah, or I don't want to go to that John. Okay, great. And you move on. So those are like personality things to me, where it's like, this is my personality. I like to go do this one thing now. If it's every weekend, that's a different story. I get it. If your personality. If you're. If your social life is. I Party every weekend and then the other person is like, well, I never, I party once every blue moon. But values wise, I think I'm really on a ramble here. But values, I think that is just, it's. That's a harder one to get around if you're very, very is. There's always a middle ground. But if you're very on the opposite ends of the spectrum. Spectrum on certain things. I mean, take for instance children and how to raise them or something like that. Yeah. If you can't agree on that or if you can't. If one person has. Is very strong and the other person's very strong. Now if one person's strong on one thing and the other person goes, I'm a more, a little, I'm a little more middle of the road on this, so I'm cool with how you want to do this or I can be kind of amenable how then that's okay. But I just think, I do think values would be a harder one to get past rant over. What do you think?

[B]

I think it's interesting. I think there's a lot of different levels. I think right now, the world that we're in right now, politic, Politic. Politics plays a huge role in relationships. Whereas I think 10 years ago it didn't. Right, 12, 50, whatever, it didn't. Whereas now I think like, yeah, I feel like it'd be pretty, pretty hard to find a couple that were completely opposite on the political spectrum and be together right now. Just as it's going on in the.

[A]

World, it's become more polarizing on both ends.

[B]

So I find that, that, and I guess that could be considered a value, I think for me, as my religious beliefs are a lot more common in Canada than they are in the US and so I never really had problems with it in Canada and even I had dated some people of certain religions and it was fine. It was like, they'll go do their thing on Sunday or whatever and then it's, it's nothing. And I think maybe that might have been a bigger decision if we had kids together. You know, people always say like, how are you going to raise your kids? And like my, my parents had different religious beliefs and they said they're not going to raise their kids anyway. They're going to raise their kids. In a way they get to decide for themselves what they want to do. They'll expose them to everything or anything they want. And it turned out that three of my siblings, me and my two siblings are exactly the same in Our religious beliefs. And my sister is on the absolutely farthest end of the spectrum from that. So I think then also, like, children is also a big thing too. I think I wish people would just be like, I've seen this so many freaking times. People get together, they're like, well, I don't want to have kids, but Rebecca does. But I think that she'll change her mind or I think that he'll change his mind. Just. No, you just break up people if one's kids. And what about, let's just break up.

[A]

I dated someone that was like, didn't believe me when I said that I didn't want kids.

[B]

I hate that.

[A]

And I was like, no, I've never, I was in my 30s. I'd never, ever, ever wanted them. I, it's not anti child. I love kids. I have tons of nieces and nephews. I, I just never wanted my own. I just never wanted it. So. And this guy was like, you know, you know who I'm talking about. But he, he, he just. And then all of a sudden, four years into our relationship, he's like, well, I mean, you're not going to change your mind about this. I was like, no, I told you that from the beginning. I, I always said that you've always kind of been on the fence too. So if you were you, I wouldn't have even stayed with you if I thought for sure you wanted kids. But then I don't think he really knew. Listen, now he's got a kid, happy, good, I'm glad. But it was, it was one of those things where I was like, I was never misleading about this. And I think that's the most important thing, is to not be misleading and then for the other person to honestly be sure what they accept. Because when you talk about religion, like you said, you and I have different views on that. Mine are a little more probably unclear. Yours are very clear. Mine are a little more like I, you know, I believe certain things and, and, and not certain things and things make me question all the right religions. A tough one because you get, you get tested on it a lot. So I, but it never has been an issue for us. We've had, we've had probably he not heated but like sparring conversations here and there. But here and there I've said, hey, you know, just because you don't believe this one thing doesn't mean I don't believe this thing. And you have to understand, like sometimes.

[B]

People I know, but also even coming into our relationship, I was a little bit More strong minded on things. On that, on that, on religion. And I still am, but I, I learned that you can't just spout it off all the time. It's not that important. Like you don't have to dig your heels on, on what you believe in because someone else believes in something different.

[A]

Right. Or it could be, it could be important to you, but it's more like it's not your place to tell someone else how to feel.

[B]

Right, right.

[A]

Or what to believe. So I think I, that's why I think overall values, when you ask that question, that is what comes up, I think harder for people and more important for people. Whereas personality things, I mean, do I want someone super chatty in the morning? No. But if I met you and fell in love with you and then all of a sudden I was like, this guy's a real talker in the morning.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I would probably just figure it out.

[B]

But with that, people with any kind of intelligence, social intelligence, can read the room a little bit and be like, oh, maybe I don't need to talk for the first 20 minutes every morning. Maybe I just let my wife ease into the day before I ramble on about what happened last night on every single TV show we watch, you know?

[A]

Right.

[B]

And I think that because I just, I think there's a lot of, oh, going back to the children thing too. I dealt with this my entire fricking adult life. If someone says, I don't want children, it's not up to you to say, oh, you'll change your mind, okay? Because people like us who don't want children, who have never wanted children, who have said it from day one, I don't want children. And for you to say, oh, you'll change your mind, or you don't know what you're missing, it's none of your business.

[A]

It's also offensive to tell someone with.

[B]

All due respect, off.

[A]

Yeah, no respect, do off.

[B]

I was for some reason. And people, people always want to tell football players they need to have kids because they were like friggin breeders or something. Right up to my last year I was 41 years old. Be like, well, I think you guys will change your mind. She's going to want kids. No, you fucking assholes, we're not going to want kids. We don't want kids.

[A]

You're like, and also she's seven years older than me. It's dried up into a biology class.

[B]

Do you not pay attention to sex Ed?

[A]

Well, unfortunately, it seems I could still get pregnant right now. Just so everyone Knows.

[B]

I know.

[A]

In case anyone's really. Case anyone really wants to know.

[B]

But I do think there's values. There's values that are deal breakers. And I think there's more personalities that are different that can mend together.

[A]

Okay. We need.

[B]

I've seen a lot of couples. A lot of couples. One was over at our house the other day where one is very social and one's a little bit more withdrawn. Is that the right word? Withdrawn?

[A]

Y.

[B]

A little quieter. A little more of a wallflower maybe. And they. And they can work together.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And I've seen all kind of mixed match, actually. Sometimes I've seen couples who are both like type A's or whatever, people that want to talk all the time. They don't work together because they just step on each other's toes the whole time.

[A]

Right. Yes, I do think there's a little bit of necessity. Well, not necessity, I shouldn't say. But I. For me, I think I need someone that is. Offsets me a little bit. Like, I don't want you to be my exact twin, even though we are starting to look like John and have for a while, I guess. But I don't want someone to be exactly like me. But there are certain. Yeah. Anyway, I disagree with you. I think overall personality things can. Can sort of be adjusted and accepted. And I think that's a lot of what this book is about too. Debbie McComber, 12 Days of Christmas, in case you're reading along instead of just listening to us rant this week. But I think that that can be adjusted to more than very, very deep values. Now, if it's a smaller thing or something, you're like, oh, I don't know what I really think about that. What do you think? Okay, cool. That's. That's a very different thing than people having a strong stance.

[B]

Right. And I think like 90 of the things that I like, I don't say I believe in 90 of things in the world. I'm definitely in the gray area. I can go either way. And I don't think I'll ever just be like black or white. And a lot of these. A lot of films, things in this world. I think that's kind of where those deal breakers come into play when people are just black and white.

[A]

Right. And. And some should be black and white. Of course, some are very, you know, if you feel passionate about something, some should be black and white, but some are just like, oh, okay, listen, this is. I'm. I mean, you talk about when what. Like this is a Random thing. But you talk about someone who's vegan and someone who eats meat and I've seen people that are together that, that, that one eats meat and one doesn't and one's like, this is. It's a very ethical thing for the person who doesn't, but they don't condemn the person that does. And then there's other people who are, who are like, oh, I can't be with someone who would ever do that. So it's really kind of where you're, where your mind is coming from on it. And neither is right or wrong. It's just how you are approaching that and why you approach it that way. That makes sense.

[B]

Yeah, that makes sense.

[A]

Therapy session. Anyway, go ahead onto the next thing.

[B]

Now I feel like we got to go a little more light hearted.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So this, this book is all about the holidays and I don't know, I think we've talked a little bit here and there about like our holiday traditions and I think we've. I grew up with like a ton of like, like a ridiculous amount of traditions from where we hang the stockings to how we walk down the stairs on Christmas morning on what we ate after. After.

[A]

How'd you walk down the stairs?

[B]

We all went into my parents room and then we waited till everyone woke up and then we all walked down together so we could all share gifts.

[A]

At the same time. Oh, that's cute. Yeah.

[B]

And then we, the night before, we each all had to lay out our stockings. We had our stockings on the mantel, but we had to lay it out on like four different spaces. And we each had the same space every year. And then Santa would put all your gifts in that corner.

[A]

In your proper corners.

[B]

And then. Yes, none of the gifts were from Santa were wrapped. They were just there when you walked downstairs. They were just there because they weren't wrapped because the elves, when they build it, they don't build the boxes, just build the toys. I don't know how no one else in this. Like, no wonder these idiots didn't believe in Santa when I was growing up. They don't like guys. They don't make boxes at the freaking North Pole.

[A]

Okay, Actually, I will say my mom mostly didn't wrap our Santa gifts either. They mostly were exposed.

[B]

It was our gifts from each other and from my parents. They were all wrapped. So we walked down, we opened our stocking and then we opened our stuff from or like looked at our stuff from Santa and then we started opening the gifts from each other and from my parents.

[A]

Yes, so mostly my mom would do that too. Seattle gifts were just, like, put under the tree because it's not Cassandra's. Not real guys. So my mom would put them under the tree after they were.

[B]

They were. They were there. They were there. While you were still. Before Christmas Eve. They were there.

[A]

No, no, no, no, no. I'm saying when we went to bed. No, babe, I'm saying your entire childhood. No, she would put the Santa presents under there, and she wouldn't wrap most of them. There would be, like, it would just have a tag that said from Santa. I'm saying most of the Santa. Just like you're saying most of the Santa presents weren't wrapped, whereas the ones from mom and dad. Mom and Eric, whatever. Were right.

[B]

Y.

[A]

So I'm saying she did the same thing you did. I guess she would wrap some. Maybe she didn't think about the whole North Pole thing. They didn't buy a box or whatever. But I will say, for the most part, once I got to be nine or so grade.

[B]

You end up when you're nine?

[A]

I don't know. Sure.

[B]

Around third?

[A]

Sure. Well, I started kindergarten when I was five.

[B]

So you've been probably fourth.

[A]

Yeah. Fourth. Fourth grade. So right around that time, I'm gonna guess. Can't remember exactly when it was, but. But that's when I. When I knew Santa wasn't real. And I would start finding my gifts ahead of time, and then my mom started hiding them in the, like. Oh, the. Oh, the camper trailer, as if that was an obvious.

[B]

And what was the first thing you found? What record did you find out there?

[A]

My Olivia Newton John record Physical. Yeah, I did. I was so excited. And that was just. I just had a little sticker on that said to Sarah from Sansa, probably because she knew I'd already seen it. But I. But then the other thing I did. So you talk about the, like, getting up in the morning. So we were supposed to get up in the morning, go wake them up. So then they walk us out, and then we see the stockings and the presents from Santa for the first time. Little did they know I had already been out there with a little scissor and opened all my presents. You broke at em and then taped them back.

[B]

You're a bad kid.

[A]

I just. I think I was just curious. Although I did that up until my 20s, I feel.

[B]

Yeah. I also think the thing about you is if you knew what the gift was, it wouldn't ruin it for you. Whereas we. No, as kids, we just wanted to be surprised. Like, Christmas is such a big day for us. We just wanted to be surprised. So my mom would always come home and tell us where she's hiding all the gifts. I'm hiding all the gifts in my closet. Good. We won't go in there because you don't want to wreck Christmas. You need to be surprised. On the 25th at probably about 4:30 in the morning when we all woke up, I.

[A]

So I stopped doing it finally. I truly, at some point in my 20s, like, even when I would go home after I like moved away and came back as a. As what you would consider an adult living on her own in Los Angeles. In my early 20s and I would go home for Christmas, I would still like, when my mom went to bed, I would still like, especially she put something in a bag. Like, I'm a idiot. Like, it's in a bag. I'm just going to look at, you know, oh, it's that little T shirt I asked for from Banana Republic or whatever. And then I'm going to tape it back. But I finally stopped doing it at some point. I forget when, but I've never ever done it with you. So I started doing it with my parents at some point. But I've never done it with you because they know how much it means to you. I'm not saying I think I probably my mom.

[B]

I think early on our relationship, I think I sat you down and give you a speech like, like a, like a parent being like, sarah, I spent a lot of time picking out these presents for you. I spent a lot of money on these presents. And when I give it to you, it means a lot to me. So I really want to see your reaction when you open it because that's really special to me.

[A]

Yeah, I was like, all right, I can. Okay, loser. I guess. But I just said, but you, you do have to understand. As much as I understand, I have, I have come to understand it ruins it for someone else. If I know I had a time. So I grew up, I stopped doing it somewhere in my 30s I learned how to stop doing it. Maybe late 20s. But before that, I do want everyone to understand it never ruined it for me. Kind of like we talk about spoilers for a TV show. I mean, I will Google the end of something while I'm watching it and then I'll relax and finish it. Because I'm like, now I know what's going to happen now. I don't do it with Married at first sight only because I want to give my true opinion based on where the show is at that moment on the podcast. But any other show I'm watching sometimes I'm like, fog it. I just want to know what happened. I'm getting impatient here. I find out and then I relax. It doesn't ruin it for me, and it's the same way with gifts. Doesn't ruin it for me. I still get my nice Louis Vuitton bag.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Still going to rock it.

[B]

But you're really. You really need to know what's coming, and you really do, because we'll be watching a show, you know, like, pause and be like, what? Like, what's happening? I'm like, well, we're going to find out in the next five to six scenes of the show. That's, well, the show. They don't just say what's going to happen, because that'd be a boring show.

[A]

I know, but sometimes it's when they do a weird thing and it doesn't make sense. And that's why I'm asking, like, did we miss something like that? We love that show. Wayward but something. It took a weird turn.

[B]

I don't think anyone got the last episode of that show.

[A]

Yeah, I was like, did I miss something? And I thought it was a great show. And May Martin's amazing. Well written. Well, every. Everybody in it is great, but there was, like, a moment where I was. I felt confused. So I think that's what you're talking about. Anyway, watch it. It's a great show. Okay. You feel good?

[B]

I feel great.

[A]

Feels like a therapy session today.

[B]

I feel like. I feel like I can, like, get rid of this glass of wine now that we're done and get a good glass of wine.

[A]

Okay, I want you to do that. It's a Friday evening when we're recording this, so it's our. It's our night to do whatever we want. Hopefully you guys are doing the same, even though you're listening to this a few days after on Monday. Have a great week, listeners. Christmas presents. Lisa Unger is your December book. Yelp. The Yellow Wallpaper is your Patreon short story. Patreon's a lot of fun. If you'd like to join us there, we appreciate it. And if not, we will see you next week for week three of your November book list for 12 Days of Christmas by Debbie Macomber. Talk to you soon.

[B]

Bye.

[A]

The book list.

[B]

The book lisp.

[A]

The book list.

[B]

The book lisp.

[A]

The book lisp.