28 Summers Book Review

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Book Lisp with Jon Ryan & Sarah Colonna – Episode 28: Summers Book Review

Release Date: November 25, 2024

In Episode 28 of The Book Lisp, hosts Jon Ryan and Sarah Colonna delve deep into their review of the novel "28 Summers". This episode marks a significant shift as Jon and Sarah transition from spoiler-free discussions to an in-depth analysis of the book, catering to listeners who have either completed the novel or are prepared for a comprehensive review.

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1. Overview of "28 Summers"

Jon Ryan and Sarah Colonna begin by setting the stage for "28 Summers," a narrative that intriguingly starts at the end of its timeline before unraveling the protagonist's journey backward.

• Starting Point: The story opens in Summer 28 (2020) with Mallory on her deathbed, urging her son Link to contact Jake, who is notably the President of the United States and her long-term love interest.

  Sarah (00:19): "You have either completely finished the book and you're ready for the review, or you're going to get all the spoilers, which I would not be opposed to if it was me listening to a book podcast, because we know I like spoilers."

• Return to Beginnings: The narrative then travels back to Year 1 (1993), introducing Mallory's life, her relationships, and significant events that shape her over the ensuing summers.

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2. Character Dynamics and Development

Mallory stands at the heart of the story, embodying independence and resilience. Her relationships with characters like Leland, Frey, and Jake are meticulously explored, showcasing the complexities of love, friendship, and personal growth over decades.

• Leland: Described as Mallory’s best friend, Leland's character introduces early tensions and dynamics, especially concerning Mallory's inheritance and her move to Nantucket.

  Jon (02:11): "Mallory Finds out in this first chapter that her aunt Greta has passed away... So Mallory moves to Nantucket, has this great cottage and $100,000 inheritance."

• Frey and Jake: The trio's interactions during bachelor parties and subsequent summers reveal underlying tensions, secrets, and evolving relationships. The introduction of Ursula, Jake's wife, adds layers of political intrigue and personal conflict.

  Sarah (07:04): "She’s a little bit of a pushover because she didn't even get mad enough about that... You can't do that."

• Ursula: As a politician, Ursula embodies the antagonistic force in the story. Her strategic maneuvers to control Jake's relationships and her political ascent provide a counterbalance to Mallory's quest for personal freedom.

  Jon (12:02): "She talks at one of Cooper's many weddings... he covers and then he starts to put it together that Jake's been going to see his sister all these years."

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3. Themes and Insights

Independence and Female Empowerment: A recurring theme is Mallory's unwavering independence. Her ability to navigate love and loss while maintaining her autonomy is a testament to the novel's focus on female empowerment.

Sarah (33:29): "I thought it was sweet to seem like to make it seem like, oh, these two might either meet and carry it on, and then you get to see the love blossom in their two children that aren't, you know, related because they never got married."

Political Intrigue: Ursula's role as a politician introduces real-world parallels, reflecting societal issues and the personal impact of public decisions.

Jon (17:22): "It's just reflecting all the divisiveness... because this woman’s a politician."

Relationships Across Time: The book masterfully portrays relationships that withstand the test of time, emphasizing commitments made "no matter what."

Sarah (06:20): "Next year comes on the TV and they watch it. They're like, 'let's. No matter what, we're gonna meet here once a year on Labor Day. Forever, no matter what.'"

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4. Critiques and Highlights

While Jon and Sarah express appreciation for the novel's depth and emotional resonance, they also voice certain critiques:

• Political Elements: Both hosts felt that the political subplot involving Ursula sometimes felt disconnected from the main narrative, detracting from the personal aspects of Mallory's story.

  Sarah (20:11): "She tried to... she tried to make the book current... but I think I'll just. Sometimes I'm just like, I just don't even want to think about politics."

• Character Decisions: Certain plot points, such as Mallory's decision to become a teacher and her handling of personal relationships, were viewed as unrealistic or poorly developed.

  Jon (07:20): "Where she took Jeremiah was kind of... Isn't that kind of weird?"

• Missing Chapters: The hosts lamented the absence of significant events, like the aftermath of a wedding, which left gaps in character development and plot continuity.

  Sarah (25:02): "I wanted to hear that chapter... but we’re just supposed to assume they just don't talk about it."

Favorite Moments: Despite critiques, they highlight poignant moments that resonate emotionally, such as Ursula’s confrontation with Mallory and the novel’s bittersweet ending.

Sarah (48:04): "The confrontation that wasn't really one where Ursula goes to see Mallory was oddly satisfying."

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5. Emotional Reactions and Final Thoughts

The episode closes with Jon and Sarah reflecting on their emotional journey through the book. Sarah admits to shedding a few tears, while Jon appreciates the complex interplay of relationships and character growth.

Sarah (49:54): "I did cry a little bit at the end."

Jon (48:05): "I really like this book a lot. I thought it was a nice story."

They conclude by hinting at their next read, "On a Quiet Street" by Seraphina Nova Glass, promising to continue their tradition of exploring diverse genres and narratives.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Sarah (00:19): "You have either completely finished the book and you're ready for the review, or you're going to get all the spoilers..."

• Jon (02:11): "Mallory Finds out in this first chapter that her aunt Greta has passed away..."

• Sarah (06:20): "Next year comes on the TV and they watch it. They're like, 'let's... meet here once a year on Labor Day. Forever, no matter what.'"

• Sarah (20:11): "She tried to... she tried to make the book current... but I think I'll just... sometimes I'm just like, I just don't even want to think about politics."

• Sarah (49:54): "I did cry a little bit at the end."

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Conclusion

Jon Ryan and Sarah Colonna deliver a comprehensive and heartfelt review of "28 Summers," balancing their admiration for the novel with constructive criticisms. Their dynamic discussion offers listeners a nuanced perspective, making this episode a valuable resource for those contemplating reading the book or seeking deeper insights post-reading.

For more detailed discussions and exclusive content, listeners are encouraged to join their Patreon community and follow them on Instagram.

Transcript

[A]

Hi, I'm Sarah Colonna.

[B]

And I'm John Ryan.

[A]

And you're listening to the Book List. The Book List.

[B]

The Book Lisp.

[A]

Oh, that's right. You're listening to the Book Lisp. Welcome to the Book List with John Ryan and Sarah Colonna. Hi, John.

[B]

Hey. This is what we've been waiting for.

[A]

This is what we've been waiting for, baby. It's the big week. It is our first full episode of just actually talking about the book so that, you know, for the first three weeks, we tried not to give too many spoilers, not knowing wherever all the readers are. So we just had a lot of fun. But now you have either completely finished the book and you're ready for the review, or you're going to get all the spoilers, which I would not be opposed to if it was me listening to a book podcast, because we know I like spoilers.

[B]

Well, let's just get right into it.

[A]

Let's get. Okay.

[B]

John's waiting for this.

[A]

John's ready.

[B]

Okay. So we start off this book as.

[A]

We'Ve already got shot out of a cannon.

[B]

Oh. We start off this book at the end. We already talked about this. It's called 28 Summers. It starts off summer 28, 2020, with Mallory on her deathbed saying to her son to go get this phone number to call. Call the guy on that phone number. It happens to be the President of the United States. Husband.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And she's like, someone's pranking me. But so we learned, was she.

[A]

Is she president or running to be?

[B]

It's 2020. I guess the one thing in this first chapter that got me a little bit, because everyone knows what's going on, but the link is, like, worried about link. Her son is worried about, like, the future. And the doctor goes to leave later. To later. That was really good. I mean, like, you and I have both gone through this with parents on their deathbed. And he goes, she said, leave later. Till later. I was like, I like that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

We live in the moment right now.

[A]

Yes. Because he starts saying all these what ifs and how's she gonna feel? And it's because they don't know how many days she has. Yeah, that is. That's a nice message.

[B]

So we pick up year one, 1993. Summer number one, they call it. Mallory's living with her best friend Leland, who we all talked about Leland last week and how. How terrible.

[A]

Stingy food.

[B]

Yeah. Comes home with a duck confit. Doesn't even share it with her best friend. Yeah. Mallory Finds out in this first chapter that her aunt Greta has passed away. She loved her aunt Greta. Her family was estranged from her aunt Greta because of her roommate.

[A]

Right. She had a.

[B]

A.

[A]

A female roommate in the family did. And the family didn't understand that they were.

[B]

Because Mallory was so good to her, she left her the cottage in Nantucket. So Mallory moves to Nantucket, has this great cottage and $100,000 inheritance. She starts kind of starts her life there a little bit. So near the end of the first year, Mallory's brother Cooper, his best friend Frey, and his best friend Jake all come because they want to have his bachelor party right at the cottage.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So they're planning this and, like, the two nights before, Loon's like, yeah, like, I'm, like, coming, right? Remember I said we're going to come on Labor Day long weekend. She's like, what? What? No. So she wants to crash her ex boyfriend phrase. Not his bachelor party, but his, like, best friend's bachelor.

[A]

Well, because at the time, she doesn't know when she. She basically said, I'm coming to see you. But then she's like, oh, she had left it kind of open. And then when she says, I am coming, Mallory goes, well, I. I already have. My brother's coming, and Frey's coming, and Frey is Leland's ex.

[B]

It's like a normal person. Leland wasn't like, okay, I'll just go come next to her or something. She's like, I'm gonna crash.

[A]

Yeah. And she's like, don't tell Frey that I'm coming. Let it be a surprise.

[B]

There's no voices in books. We know exactly how she talks. I'm coming. Frey's gonna be, like, so surprised. I'm like, hot. Now we know how she talks.

[A]

Yeah, we do.

[B]

So anyways, we go over this a little bit, huh?

[A]

Yeah, it's okay.

[B]

I want to make sure. So they have the bachelor party. Turns the whole first night just turns into a show. Leland shows up. Her and Frey almost instantly start making out. Out. They go to the Chicken Box. Leland, of course.

[A]

That's a real place, by the way. Yeah, I want to go. I know. I want to go to the Chicken Box real bad. Yeah, it's. That's the one thing that we talked about. Ellen Hildebrand made us want to go to Nantucket. I want to go to the Chicken Box.

[B]

Oh, I was looking on Redfin for homes.

[A]

No, we're moving there.

[B]

No, but, you know, you don't you.

[A]

Think you should test it out? You think you should test it out, see if you like it first.

[B]

Yeah. You know how I dive in, right?

[A]

Yeah. Okay.

[B]

We had sex on the first date. What was I talking about?

[A]

How they went to the chicken box.

[B]

The first night was obviously, Leland finds friends from the city, and she ditches them.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Frey has, like, a breakdown. They get home about this. Cooper gets a call from his future wife, and she's like, if you're having this bachelor party, we're done. So he leaves. Frey's, like, has a. Whatever, goes and starts swimming in the ocean, drunk.

[A]

Swimming in the ocean. Bad idea.

[B]

And then it's like, eventually they find him. He's like, whatever, I'm leaving. And then it's like her and Jake left alone. That's like the first weekend. Weekend, number one of their Labor Day, how it all started.

[A]

Yeah. They start off with a little. There's a bunch of chaos going around, and Jake says, I'm gonna stay here because he's talked to her on the phone. We already. They already have a crush on each other going into this.

[B]

Right. Because they were. He was a roommate with Cooper in college, and she would always call and hoping he would pick up and kind of flirt.

[A]

Right. The one thing that Ellen did in this, that threw me is when she taught because she did that thing where she goes, oh, later, I'll regret this part. Later, I'll regret not following him down to the beach. So I thought, I'm like, oh, my God, Frey's gonna die right away. We're dying with it.

[B]

She did set us up. Think that he was gonna die.

[A]

Yeah. And then he was fine. He was just down the beach drunk.

[B]

Yeah, she did. She even, like, rereading, like, does he die? I don't remember him dying. Yeah, there's a couple times that happens. Like, you really.

[A]

That happened. Remember that happened later in the book that I said, cooper, oh, dead. I was like, I can't believe Cooper's dad. Cooper's. And then it turned out page later.

[B]

Like, cooper Senior, Cooper Senior.

[A]

Her parents get hit by cars. I thought it was like, oh, my God. They're just knock Cooper out of this. But no. Anyway, it was her parents. But yeah. So we. That's how they start. And obviously, we know throughout the book, they meet every summer.

[B]

Then on Sunday, it's just Jake and her. And next time, same place next year.

[A]

Comes same time next year, same time.

[B]

Next year comes on the tv and they watch it. They're like, let's. No matter what, we're gonna meet here once a year on Labor Day. Forever, no matter what. And that sets the tone.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Okay, then year number two, summer two, we have Coop's wedding, right? And this is what not.

[A]

As for not his last, he'll have few.

[B]

No. And Jake doesn't want to take Ursula. And Ursula basically invites herself. She's like, no, I'm coming. Obviously they want me there. Yes, I'm coming. And then she makes it very clear. It sets the tone for her. She makes it very clear that her career comes first. Like, she's like, basically working at the.

[A]

Wedding and not eating. Big focus was that she doesn't like.

[B]

To eat, never eats. But Jake, like, makes it like, he's like, like, I'm glad you're leaving. Basically not g. To hang out with Mallory. And they make out.

[A]

Yes, he wants to see Mallory. That's why he doesn't want her there.

[B]

Year three, they have Mallory gets a job as a teacher. And they definitely, like, established that she loves it. She even says she doesn't want the school year to be over because she's loving it so much. So we're definitely setting her up.

[A]

The most unbelievable part of the book, by the way. There's not one teacher that doesn't want the school year to be over and have their book and have their break, especially on a place like Nantucket.

[B]

Definitely sets up. Like, she's independent, she's loving her job, loving her work. This is the one. This is the one chapter I didn't like because I didn't see where this was going. Where she took. Jeremiah was a student who is. The school was off island on the senior trip, and Jeremiah's family. You can't go because we live on this island. We're never leaving this island. So it's kind of. Isn't that kind of weird?

[A]

Yeah. So basically she. As we all know, I mean, we don't have to break down obviously the book because you guys read it, but she. But she takes that kid out to. To the.

[B]

Someplace he wants to go.

[A]

Someplace he wants to go because she feels bad for him that he doesn't get to go on this field trip with everyone else. And then she gets busted being there by her jealous ex boyfriend, the firefighter, because she gets her car stuck in the. In the sand. And then she ends up having to tell her the pres. The school principal and everyone that she took him and it. And it's like, of course. Everyone's like, oh, my God, the teacher was off with the. With the kid. It didn't go anywhere.

[B]

This whole part of. The only part of the story that I could figure out why they did it is because jd, her ex boyfriend, finds them on the beach together.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

She's like, oh, what? Oh, you guys are going for a little experience is what Jeremiah says.

[A]

Yeah. It doesn't. It not only doesn't go anywhere, she doesn't get fired for it. Because I thought she was going to get fired. He's like, no, why would I fire my best.

[B]

You're my most promising teacher.

[A]

Yeah. And so I don't know if they're just. If. If that was just a way of trying to let us know how much she loves her students and how much she's just sort of like the rebel that's trying to do any, you know, make the. Make the outcast feel uncomfortable because she is court of an outcast in a way because she spends most of her time alone or with apple.

[B]

Yeah. So the next year, summer four is the first time where I feel like, oh, there's a chance where they might just like, Jake and her might just like, run off together. They're like, very into it. And then she says to him, it seems so unfair. I spend so much time being jealous of her, and she doesn't even know enough to be jealous of me.

[A]

Yeah. And that's why. And that's why I'd be pissed.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then if you're cheating, the worst thing that could probably happen if you're cheating is that you get a call that your wife's dad just died. And that's right at the end of summer four.

[A]

Right at the end of summer four, she's basically like, yeah, you got to get out of here. They didn't cut the weekend short, right?

[B]

No, it's like right at the end.

[A]

Luckily her dad died on Sunday or whatever and he was leaving on. Right. Yeah, it worked out well.

[B]

And then we introduced the next year to Fifi and Leland. Lilia just announced that, no, now I'm a lesbian. And I'm bringing my girlfriend, who you absolutely love, because she's like a famous author.

[A]

Famous author Fifi.

[B]

And that's the summer she came. And she's even more. More terrible because he overhears her being like, Mallory's very influen or no, very easily influenced. Easily influenced. She's blah, blah. And like, I think that's when Mallory's like, hey, whatever, I'm going, whatever, see you later. But she keeps on leading, letting her back into her life. And I don't understand why.

[A]

No, I. Leland is the person that if she bas. She finally Boots her towards the end when, when Fifi writes or when Leland actually basically outs her affair.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And says a friend of mine has the same time next year. And she had interviewed Ursula and then Ursula read it. We all know. And that to me she was so. Again, she was. She is a little bit of a pushover because she didn't even get mad enough about that. I mean I would have run like she outed her in her newsletter for clicks. You can't do that.

[B]

Yeah. So that was at. It was obviously at the funeral. That's at her dad's funeral. Leland weasels her way in with Ursula, sits beside her, weasels her way in. She doesn't know at the time, but then she's like, oh shit, like I just got Ursula's phone number. And like Mallory's drunk after and she's like, just don't do anything with it. But she like falls asleep while she said she passed out.

[A]

And she confesses her light. Her years long relationship puts it all together pretty quick. Yeah. But Leland, because Leland had no idea.

[B]

He writes a whole article about how my good friend or my very intimate friend has a same time next place with a very influential person's husband.

[A]

Yeah. And basically says it's on a long weekend, it's on an island, it's. I mean she gives it all away. So Leland sucks. But at least she was nice to her at her deathbed. Mal.

[B]

She does come back.

[A]

I don't agree with that. If somebody that pissed me off came up to my deathbed to try to get a forgiveness. Nope. I gotta, I gotta die. You gotta, you have to die knowing I didn't like you.

[B]

She's so underhanded because you get like so gross. That was, I think that was like really the first time that Mallory was like, okay, like now I know. And this like around year about number 23, 22 that she figures out like, oh, my husband's cheating on me. And has been, I think it comes out first time at a wedding where she's like, oh, it's so great that for the last 13 years you and Cooper have been doing this together. And Cooper's like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

They basically she. She talks at one of Cooper's many weddings. I like that he was like married four or five times throughout this. And she, she brings up, oh, it's great that you guys always went on Labor Day weekends. He obviously she can tell that he doesn't know what she's talking about, but he covers and then he start. He finds that's the first Time he puts it together that Jake's been going to see his sister all these years. But I do think it's interesting that. Because this all started right when there was. There wasn't really cell phones.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

We go through their relationship where they start. They do start texting and they start. And they don't. First of all, the restraint on both of their ends. No texting, nothing. All those. And then just waiting to show up. I would never. There's no way that I would believe. I'd be like, there's no way this guy's coming again this year. Or if I was him, I'd be like, there's no way she's letting me come again this year. You book a plane ticket, you get on a ferry. It's not an easy place to travel to. Sounds like a real pain in the ass. And. And then you. And you have no confirmation for sure that that person is going to be there every summer, every year. Except the words that you exchanged in 1993.

[B]

No matter what.

[A]

Serious trust.

[B]

No matter what they said.

[A]

I guess I would just think I wouldn't have the self confidence. I would be like, obviously she's going to move on. Obviously she's going to find someone else. Like, I'm not. You know, it takes, like two pretty solid egos to believe that the other person is always going to be there.

[B]

A couple times where things come up. One of them was, it's going to be at her best friend from the island, Apple's wedding. And she's like, oh, and I'm getting married Labor Day. And she's like, oh, God, like, I have to, like, flake on her wedding.

[A]

Yeah, that's how.

[B]

That's how, like, disciplined she was to this weekend where she was like, eventually she cancels her wedding and just hit a null and all. Not a null. The opposite of an old elope.

[A]

Yeah. Luckily, Apple ended up getting eloped. But that was. The other thing is, I thought there's never. Nothing's ever come up on Labor Day weekend. And even on. On his end, like, his wife has never been. She's a politician now and she's busy and she's never like, Labor Day weekend. I want to take the kids somewhere. I want to do a thing because they have a baby. Which, by the way, we all know she momentarily thought might have been someone else's because she also had an affair, which I guess was maybe one way of sort of watering down for. For people. Jake's affair. So we could also be kind of.

[B]

Mad back in, like, 2000, when they're at a wedding and she see Ursula is in the bathroom crying. And Mallory goes in the bathroom, just happens to see her. And Ursula doesn't know who she is yet.

[A]

No, she did know who she is. She remembered her from way before.

[B]

She doesn't know she's boner her husband.

[A]

Right, right, right. Yeah.

[B]

And she goes. She's like crying and she's like, I'm pregnant. And she's like blubbering, but it sounds like I don't know if Jake's the father.

[A]

Right?

[B]

She's like, what? What? What? What'd you say? What'd you say? She's like, just crying because she cheated on Jake with Anders. Anders on their work trip. And then a year later, she doesn't. Still doesn't know when she's pregnant. She doesn't know whose baby is.

[A]

No, she ends up. When she. When the baby comes out, she basically says it looks just like Jake. And that's her confirmation.

[B]

I mean, right after anders dies in 911 too, right?

[A]

That was one reason. When she said 2001. What are we talking about? It was all 911 stuff. And then he died in. He was in the World Trade center because his. Their company was in there. Whatever. She really ties things in.

[B]

It all comes first. Full circle.

[A]

I mean, with your notes. You're like shot out of a cannon here. You're so excited to talk about this.

[B]

I'm like breathing hard.

[A]

I know. I don't know what to do. I feel like you don't know how. Like you don't have. It's okay. We'll have. We have time to get to it all.

[B]

Thanks, baby.

[A]

This isn't a punt on the fourth. Like, you don't have to. You don't have to catch the snap and get out of there just in time.

[B]

Seahawks get a shout out, babe. 2014. What are we talking about? The 12th man.

[A]

I know. I wanted to be like, why aren't we talking about. At someone's touchdown pass about the. Against the packers, if she really wanted to get deep. Oh, yeah. Well, 2050, whatever. You know what I'm saying?

[B]

Okay, so my whole thing here is another chapter year 26, which is near the end. This is a chapter. The Jeremiah thing. I didn't like the Jeremiah thing because it went nowhere. 26. We're getting close to the end of the whole book. And she does like a 30 minute on Audible's 30 minute. Huge chapter in the book about Cavendish running for Senate.

[A]

I think cabin Cavendish running Supreme Court.

[B]

About how all his, like, sexual allegations, all this stuff. And it seemed like it didn't even really fit the whole book. It fit more like the narrative of what's going on in the world today.

[A]

Well, that's what I. Yeah. So I kind of mentioned that at the. When we. When we first. I think on our first episode. But I was like, oh, the way she ties in. So it's. I mean, not even. I mean, even the beginning of the names is the same, kind of in a way not spelled the same. But she basically gives us Brett Kavanaugh. Right. The story.

[B]

Right.

[A]

It's. He. There was alleged abuse. A woman come forward. Other women came forward. And that. And. And it hinges on it. It has nothing to do with the book, it seems like. Right. I think because it ended up hinging on. It might hinge on Ursula's vote to just appoint him or not. She gave a nay, and everyone thought she was going to give a yay. And she basically grilled him because another woman had come forward. Anyway, it's all very much reflective of a true story that I may have a true story that happened, meaning every. Basically everything that happened, happened with Brett Kavanaugh. Me. I don't. I have. Everything's alleged, all that stuff, but the story itself. Someone. And then he still got appointed to the Supreme Court. However, she was the. No. And then I think it was maybe meant to give you insight into Ursula being more likable and so. Or standing up for herself in some way instead of kind of falling into the. Every political thing. Right. Because she just seems like a rigid politician who's like, I'll do whatever it is to get what I want.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And then her daughter. Daughter says, please, this guy obviously did it. Jake says, please, this guy obviously did it. Because all these women come forward and then we reflect back on a night that something happened to her that was similar. And then she ends up doing the unexpected Ursula thing, according to the book. I guess. But I kind of was like. I don't. It just felt like a way of. Yeah. Saying while. While things go on in the world, things are going on in this book, too. And I'm just gonna kind of make up a story. But it's also going to be very reflective.

[B]

There was another moment where you think that she's just being like a. Like a dirty politician. And then she goes back on it, too, is when she takes 750 grand from the NRA and Jake is just like, you took 750 grand from the NRA.

[A]

Right. Because. Because they don't. He's he's against it. And then he thought she was too. And then. Yeah, and then he did give the money back.

[B]

Later on, when she's doing Leland's interview, she goes, what's your biggest regret? She's like taking that money from the nra. It's like. She's like. You see like a different side of her kind of.

[A]

Yeah, I thought that stuff. I. I mean, I. I guess you have to have those storylines in some way because this. She is a politician in the book. And so I think they're basically just reflecting all the divisiveness. Like people thought he was guilty. People weren't sure if he was guilty. People were sure he was. People are against the nra. People aren't. And so she's just tying all that into the book because this woman's a politician. But it did in some ways feel disconnected to the book to me, a little bit.

[B]

I think she's getting a little bit of her own political beliefs out.

[A]

Right. Yeah.

[B]

Author.

[A]

Yeah. Perhaps. Or just. Yeah, maybe. But it just felt. I didn't know that it added to the story other than to, I guess, see how serious. What. I mean, listen, the woman is supposed to be running for. I. Listen, I actually. I'll be honest. Okay. John, I love this book.

[B]

Go ahead, sweetie.

[A]

I could have done without Ursula being a politician. I just didn't need it. It didn't add. I mean, other than her being. She could have just been a. Like just a prosecutor. She could. I don't know. I'm just thinking of anything else where you have to devote so much time.

[B]

I think they're just trying to make like very powerful. And I think the way they put her in the public eye was making it so they have to sneak around more. Especially in the later chapters when she is running for president. She is a senator now. And now there is the Internet. They can't just run around even on Nantucket alone anymore. And it makes a more stressful situation there.

[A]

Right. Why couldn't he have just been like. Why couldn't she have been like a famous actress? And then he had to hide for. Because paparazzi would find him on Nantucket.

[B]

Maybe you could write a follow up.

[A]

Oh, do you think Ellen would have.

[B]

29Th summer.

[A]

29Th summer. A bonus Patreon exclusive episode of us recapping the 6th wedding, which is the postscript, the short post script to 28 Summers will be available on November 26th. You can find our Patreon at the link in bio. Yeah, I just. I think all that Stuff. I like that she does that. And she tried. I mean, she's. It makes a book current. I understand that. To bring in things that are going on in the world. So I totally get it. But I think I'll just. Just to. Sometimes I'm just like, I just don't even want to think about politics.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

In a book. That's not. I wasn't expecting it to be in. Right. Just in some ways it's not a political feeling one way or the other. It's more just like, oh, I just want to. I just want to hear about the 28 summers. Not.

[B]

Not think about politics for a little bit.

[A]

Yeah. It's a. Sometimes.

[B]

Yeah. So going on, we find out that Mallory has melanoma. You're 25. And he talked about it a little bit. And then in 27 we find out. I think this is like giving a little bit of closure because we know that she dies in year 28. We know that right from the get go.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But in 20, summer 27, Jake graduates from high school. So you're like. Okay. She's raised like a successful 18 year old young man who's going off to college now. Right.

[A]

Well, we. And we skipped. I mean, obviously not skipped over, but we. I mean, she has a son from Frey.

[B]

All right, so at. At one wedding, after the thing in the bathroom, when going back to that.

[A]

When she saw Ursula.

[B]

Yeah. And then she's like went out the dance floor, grab fry, they're dancing and then go and have sex against a tree.

[A]

Oh, that was the best part of the book.

[B]

She gets pregnant.

[A]

Alan was like, he forgot to pull out. I mean that was like written in there.

[B]

Yeah, he forgot to pull out. And then nine months later they have a little child. Lincoln. Yeah, Lincoln Cooper Dooley.

[A]

We have a nephew named Lincoln. We do, yeah.

[B]

I thought he was not conceived against the tree.

[A]

I bet he was. No, he's not. Not the Hanaways. They would never. But I, I did think that was an interesting aspect. To have her have a child by.

[B]

Her brother's best friend.

[A]

Her brother's best friend and also a friend of Jake's over these years. One of the people that was originally at the first weekend. Right. It, it. You kind of feel like. Oh, you get it. Like they've known each other forever. He's hot. I think they kind of seem like he's hot. What's his nickname? Does he have a Scotty body thing? Like. Not yet, no. Okay. But Frey with the body. So.

[B]

Fifty shades of fray, 50 shades of prey.

[A]

He Is. I think they. They leaned it to see. They make it seem like he's attractive. Obviously, he was Leland's ex, so there's all these very successful.

[B]

This book. Yeah.

[A]

It's a little. It's sort of like, oh, my God. It's. I mean, she. She's not worried that. That Leland's gonna be upset.

[B]

She was a little bit worried. And when she called Lily and thought. Actually thought it was great.

[A]

Yeah. She was like, who cares? And they immediately. There's no discussion of should we get married? Should we be together? No. They're just like, this happened up against a tree. I want to have the baby. You want to be involved. That's great. He. And they have a full easy co parenting thing. Like, there's no it issues there other than he seems super rich.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

And then he gets like a girlfriend and she's great to him. I mean, they make that real.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

She didn't want to make that a part of the book. It seems like she didn't want there to be any messiness with.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

With the parenting.

[B]

It adds to me about Mallory's independence, which I'm getting. I hope we get to in a little bit.

[A]

I know you can't wait.

[B]

Yeah, I'm just. I'm just trying to get through the whole thing here and then we can, you know, talk about it.

[A]

Well, I want to give one complaint.

[B]

Yeah, let's go ahead.

[A]

When he married Ursula.

[B]

Go ahead.

[A]

When he married Ursula. Whatever summer that was. I forget. But so they.

[B]

Right around five.

[A]

Yeah. He knew that she knew he was getting married. He got married in, I think, June or July.

[B]

Y.

[A]

And she knew what weekend it was. She tried to keep herself busy maybe. Was Leland.

[B]

Leland and Fifi come that weekend? Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Leland. Fifi visit that weekend. She keeps herself busy. And then we. They. We hear about their wedding. And then they skip to the. They would go to the next chapter. And I understand she's not going to give us all the details of every Labor Day weekend that they're together. Um, it's like. It's more about what happened that year. But you. You're on. You're under the understanding that they never miss a year. And so when I. But I finished the chapter when he got married. And then they end up seeing each other at Thanksgiving. Next in that chapter.

[B]

Christmas. Yeah.

[A]

Or Christmas. Mallory and Jake see each other at Christmas and they like, slow dance and. And.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And Coupe still doesn't catch on all this stuff because he doesn't know yet. But I. I wanted to. I Wanted to hear the Labor Day after he got married. Because at first I thought, wait, did they skip a summer?

[B]

Did they, too? We were talking about this.

[A]

Yeah. I was like, so did they skip? They. He got married in June. They don't see each other till Christmas. So did we skip. Skip a Labor Day? But then you find out, no, they've never missed one.

[B]

Because in the chapter summer number six, they don't mention anything about Labor Day. They talk about the Christmas. And then in chapter seven, like, oh, they missed the Labor Day. We talked about this. But then halfway through chapter seven, like, this is the seventh consecutive Labor Day we've been together.

[A]

Yeah. So they got together. They had their Labor Day, The. The. This. The summer after he got married. And I don't know. I guess I would have liked to have seen that. I like. I would have liked to heard that chapter. I guess we're just supposed to assume they just don't talk about it. But, I mean, you're not going to be like, hey, how was your wedding?

[B]

It would have been kind of a big chapter.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

For that part of the story, for sure.

[A]

I kind of wanted that. So I wonder if the other. If the listeners felt that way, too. Tell us in our comments.

[B]

Then, when it does become apparent that Ursula is going to run for president.

[A]

Mm.

[B]

She doesn't tell Jake, like, go talk to her. You can't go anymore. No, just. You can't go anymore. Instead, Ursula just goes and shows up at Mallory's door.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And she's like, you can't see my husband this Labor Day, next Labor Day, or any other Labor Day that I'm in office.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

If I'm in office.

[A]

Says.

[B]

So she's not like, you can't see him ever again. You can't see him as long if I'm in office.

[A]

Yeah. So that is. So she basically, she. She figured it out.

[B]

Yeah. Yes.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But she know four or five years before this, and she was on to them like, 15 years before this.

[A]

Right. But she was. She wasn't for sure. She'd never had the conversation. But then when coup se seems caught off guard by it. But then, anyway, they. She ends up confirming, not fully confirming, even when she goes to the house to see Mallory. She says, you see him every Labor Day. Right.

[B]

Y. Or I mean, they go dune bugging.

[A]

They go doom bugging. Like Bill Gates and his ex. That was last episode. But she. Yeah, it is interesting. So she shows up to the house in her black suv, basically saying she has a fundraiser on Nantucket, a private Fundraiser, and she thought she'd swing by Mallory's house to say, you can't see my husband anymore. And I did think that was an interesting. I liked it. I liked that this is how it went. Because at first you're thinking, why doesn't she say this to Jake? Well, she tells you right there. She says, I had to come to you and ask you this because if I ask Jake to stop seeing you, I think he'll leave me.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Like, she almost always knows that he's going to choose her.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And if given the chance, so does Mallory.

[B]

This whole time, Mallory knows to. The whole time. It's my theory. In a minute.

[A]

Well, then if she. If they know the whole time, why wouldn't she just say, choose me? Because she doesn't want to.

[B]

She wants her independence 362 days a year. She likes to be independent. She. She's. She's choosing the life. She's choosing, like when she breaks up with JD and breaks up with Scotty Jihadi with the naughty body and bear, she's not choosing Jake over them. She's choosing three days with Jake over 365 days with them. She'd rather have that three days. Like, that's. This is her choice.

[A]

But why wouldn't she want the 365 days with Jake? Why wouldn't she?

[B]

Because she wants her independence for 365 days a year. In the very first chapter, when we meet her, she taught.

[A]

She, as Alan calls her, our girl.

[B]

Our girl. When our girl gets home and Leland's not home, and she's like, I love just being alone. I love my freedom. She said in the very first chapter, she talks about as a kid, she loved being alone reading in her aunt's cottage.

[A]

I feel like maybe I should have kept you to a Labor Day weekend, because this is like, you know how I love my independence and I love reading alone in a. In my aunt's cottage that she doesn't have. I'm just kidding.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

No, I'm. This is actually a good point, because I'm saying she.

[B]

She talks about the very first year, number one, about how much she loves her freedom, how she came home that one time, and she's like, I love just being alone. And then she talks about how she loves reading books at her aunt's cottage alone. So I think there's really only one time. This whole book, it's around year four when she decides not to go and work at the bar. What on here? I'm sweating.

[A]

It's Very worked up about your.

[B]

Around year four when she's a school teacher and she loves it so much, she's like, this summer I'm just going to have a summer. That's the only time she ever talks about being lonely.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And she talks, oh, I'd like to talk to Jake. But she doesn't say, I wish Jake was here with me. She, I wish Leland would come. I wonder if my brother would come. But she's not like, I wish Jake would come. Because she's like, I'm happy with this three day thing I have. And later on she has her child, raises him alone. Mostly she had like, when I first read this book, I was like, man, like, he stole years of her life from her. And then I even heard people say, which I really hated. People are like, it's so unfortunate. They just wrote about this woman wasting her life. Which is not what happened in my opinion whatsoever.

[A]

She doesn't waste her life. She has a great relationship with her son. She does all the mom things. She seems to love being a mom. Luckily she had him with someone who invented coffee or whatever he did, and a rich guy, which is nice. It helps, I think he eases the stress of going to college and whatnot is all I'm saying. But this is. You're. It's interesting that you're saying this because I had be. I didn't think he stole it from her. I knew that it was her choice. I wish that she would be more like, okay, what am I doing here? Am I gonna. I guess you're right. She doesn't care to have a partner.

[B]

You know, I think about year like six or seven, it becomes very, very clear that if she said leave Ursula right now, he, he would have been a heartbeat. And she knew that. And she, I think she knew it for the next 21 years after that, that anytime she said go, he would have went.

[A]

So why do you think he never said, I want to leave her? Because I think he does want to.

[B]

I think because a big part of that is because he's married to Ursula. Ursula and him go back to almost their childhood. The childhood which he had a twin sister who she was like a pallbearer at her. His sister's funeral because he died very young of cystic fibrosis. And that's like this one last connection to his sister is Ursula. And then on Ursula's side, it's a very much a relationship of convenience for her too, right? Yeah.

[A]

She's like, he knows me. He gets all the shit he Knows I won't eat. Whatever. That kept being a weird thing that they brought up. I don't know if we're supposed to know that she, like, assumed that she had an eating disorder or that she's just, like, another thing about her. It's like, she's not interested because then Mallory's always like, I'm cooking burgers.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, Right. A big part of their thing is enjoying their food and stuff together. So I don't know if that was a weird, subtle thing where it was like. Because, like, I have a friend like that who doesn't. Truly doesn't care what she eats.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

She doesn't have an eating disorder by any means. She's just like, I don't care what it is. Oh, I'm not like, the ultimate foodie. Yeah.

[B]

The ultimate food.

[A]

Yeah. So I don't know if that was just. If that was the point of that or if we were. If there was supposed to be like, oh, there's more going on with her. But that never really went anywhere either. So I think it was just supposed to be how different they are, how Mallory dives into everything. And Ursula's just, like, picky.

[B]

That's why I thought the third time I read it, I thought it was a book about female empowerment. She's setting the rules. She's. She has this guy in her palm of her hands. If she. If she wanted him to move to Nantucket tomorrow, all she had to do is say when. And she had 28 years.

[A]

And Ursula knew that.

[B]

And Ursula knew that, too. Because when Ursula shows up, she's like, I knew that if I sent Jake, he would leave me.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So she's running the whole thing, and then.

[A]

Well, yeah, she is. I guess that's true.

[B]

That is my. It took me three times reading it to figure. Well, I know for me to come up with that, I never thought I'm right.

[A]

No, no, no.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Well, that's. I mean, there's no right. Or. I mean, only. Only all in. Hildebrand knows what she. What she. What she thought. But my. Yeah, I didn't. I never took away her being, like, a pushover or any of the things that Leland said that upset her. I never took any of that away from the book. But I did wonder, oh, man, that sucks. Why does he get to go do this? And why doesn't she just say, eh, I don't, or why does it. But she also knows, like, she's the one it rides on. Right. So if she gets married to Scott because Scott was going to propose to her at one point. If she marries Scott, Labor Day, same time next year is done. There's no way to be like, hey, can you leave town every weekend? Every Labor Day weekend? Because I have a friend that comes who I. Who you can't be here to meet, you know, so she would never be. So she knows in that moment, I feel like I. Not just her saying no to marrying him, because I think in some ways, maybe should have been like, sure, I'll marry this guy. Is great guy, but if she gets married, it doesn't matter if he gets married. If she gets married, it's off.

[B]

Y.

[A]

They can't. There's no way around it. You can't have a quote, unquote, same time next year. But it was a guy that she did hook up with. Bear.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Bear Burkhart.

[B]

Bear Burkhart.

[A]

Is that right?

[B]

Yeah. Got the boat. He was married to Cece.

[A]

Right. That was his last name, but his first name was. Yeah. And he. So he was one guy she hooked up with. And then she found out he was married. He had lied about it, but she was, like, having fun with him on his boat. And then we circle back that he become. He's like a big fundraising guy for politics. He ends up wanting to fund Ursula to be president. He almost pulls. She thinks he's going to pull the fundraising when she says nay for that senator guy. And then. And then he's like, no, that was actually. Everyone's talking about how you were the only one that took a stand, and so I'm still backing you for president anyway. But she. So he met Jake briefly because Bayer.

[B]

Burkhart is the only person up to that point that she told about Jake.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Because she. I think she was like, whatever. We're having fun. Whatever. And she's like, I have this thing with this guy.

[A]

Yeah. And she said his name because forcing everything. It's going to come back.

[B]

And then when. When.

[A]

Because you don't know how small Nantucket is. When Ellen Hildebrand is in charge.

[B]

Then when. When. When Bear meets Jake, he's like, ah, I know you from somewhere. I know that name from somewhere.

[A]

And then he puts it together, and that's how Ursula confirms that they are having the affair. And that's why she goes to her house. But, yeah, this. It's interesting. You're right. I guess. I mean, there's no. There is no world where she's ever seems to be pining.

[B]

No.

[A]

For him. But you do.

[B]

I don't think she misses Jake. I think she misses the three years. Three days a year she spends with Jake.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Like, I'm going back to my high school reunion. 25 year anniversary of Sheldon Williams Spartans provincial champions.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And when I leave there, I'm gonna miss those guys, but I don't want to see them again until. For five more years, not three days we're gonna see him next time. I mean, it's not the same, but I'm saying I'm gonna miss them, but I don't want them in my life all the time.

[A]

Right. I think that's a little bit different.

[B]

I know. I just wanted to talk about the 2025 year anniversary. The Sheldon Williams Spartans provincial championship football team, 1999.

[A]

Yeah. You guys really do get together. I've never seen anything like it.

[B]

It's funny. So we won the provincial equivalent to the state championship in 1999. There was 28 guys in that team. And out of those 28 guys, 25 years later, 27 of them still live in Regina, Saskatchewan. Every guy still lives there. That's pretty awesome.

[A]

And you're the only one that has to go back.

[B]

Only guy that has to Travel more than 10 minutes by car to get to the event on Friday nights.

[A]

And. And it's quite a flight.

[B]

It's a flight. Yeah, it's a couple flights.

[A]

Just as hard as to like it is to get to Nantucket.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

That's your same time, five year.

[B]

Same time, five year we did five years ago.

[A]

Yeah, I was at that one. Yeah, it was real fun.

[B]

I thought it was amazing.

[A]

No, it was fun. It's really fun. I like that you guys celebrate that. I don't. I don't do that with anyone I went to high school with.

[B]

But here's one more thing that I'm saying about how Mallory runs the whole thing. She could. They could easily be like, hey, this year, now that I'm famous, now that you know, people are recognizing me everywhere I go, let's just meet in frickin. At one point she said, we can meet Saskatchewan, actually.

[A]

I was like, it's weird because this book was written after she found out that you were her fan. And I felt like she gave you some personal Easter eggs. 2014 Seahawks. Talked about Seattle a couple times, and then she brought up Saskatchewan. And I was like, why would anyone ever pick Saskatchewan from Nantucket? That's not like. It's not like Minotaur.

[B]

Can you imagine if that Ellen was feeding the Easter eggs in her books?

[A]

We have to go back to the rest of them because that felt like, that one felt personal.

[B]

Her and Frankie Valli having dinner somewhere. Just talking about this someday.

[A]

Oh, that would be your dream. Frankie. Valley doesn't want to meet you. We already established that last episode, so I was.

[B]

Another thing is that it's three days every year in Nantucket on her terms, on her turf, and she said that they could go anywhere else, especially when she started eating. You'd be like, meet me in freaking Snoqualmie Falls. No one's gonna know me in Snoqualmie Falls. Meet me in South Dakota. Nope, it's at Nantucket. It's on her.

[A]

I think it's also because he loves. He wants to go to Nantucket because it's nice there. He loves the chicken box. Sounds like a fun spot.

[B]

Loves their Chinese food. And they're. And then they're. Every book has one annoying thing. This is one annoying thing. Is when they read the fortune cookies, like, you'll have six success. And they go between the seeds.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Ye. Oh, you're gonna have very good future endeavors between the sheets. It's like, come. It's like what you do when you're five years old.

[A]

I know. Well, they're. I. They're a little bit stunted in their growth, I think this coach is really warm. You are. You're very. You're very sweaty. The only people that can see it are the Patreon members.

[B]

Put your shirt back on. You could have seen it for $5 a month on Patreon.

[A]

Don't make it our only fans all of a sudden.

[B]

What else do you have to add to this?

[A]

Well, I. No, I agree with you that this is her. It is her choice, and it's by her rules. And I do like that. But I think. And I don't feel like she was robbed of anything. And I think Ursula finding out about them. And then. So then Ursula, when. Cut to when we find out that. I mean, we knew at the beginning, obviously, that Mallory was sick and that she's on her deathbed. But then cut to. We find out that when. Or when Jake. When Lincoln has to call, Jake calls Jake.

[B]

Jake goes into the bedroom and says, Ursula.

[A]

He tells Ursula she's having a very important meeting. I'll barely look up from her iPad.

[B]

Or whatever to look up.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And she said. He goes, I have to talk it. Mallory is dying. She goes. She's not like, are you like any I give a about your mistress? Goes, oh, my God. I'm so sorry, Jake.

[A]

Yeah. She does say, I'm sorry. And so you get a Little bit of like, she knows how much this is going to crush him. But she's also like, couldn't you go any other day? Because this weekend we have. So that one's a little. That part was a little weird where you're like. Where he's like, well, I can go Saturday. And then I thought, oh my God, if she dies before he gets there, I'm going to be pissed. But Ellen wouldn't do that to us.

[B]

She didn't do it to us. She let him go there and sing Cat Stevens.

[A]

Yeah, he. Yeah, he pulled out his.

[B]

The Cat's in the Cradle and the Silver Spoon.

[A]

I think it.

[B]

Oh, isn't that cast even? Yeah, someone confirm on set? On set.

[A]

But also, isn't there a song? Yeah, I think there's Hard Headed Woman or something. Yes, yes. But he. Yes, he does sing to her. He sees her on her deathbed and he. He sends. Okay, so basically Ursula in it because at first you think she's a little bitchy because she says, can't you go in two days instead of tomorrow? Because you're supposed to speak at this thing.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

And at first you're like, dude, this woman's on her deathbed. What if she doesn't make it?

[B]

But then you're like, well, it's your mistress.

[A]

Right? And also. Yes. And also she's being cool about go see your mistress before she dies. The one you've been banging for 27 years behind my back. But she. The daughter. They have a daughter. The one that is his. No DNA test. Yeah, no DNA test was given, but they just. She just assumed because they looked. She looked enough like the two of them that she assumes it wasn't Anders child. And she says Bess comes up and she wants to go to Nantucket with Jake.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And he's like, I'm going to see a friend that's dying. I don't really need my kid going because basically this is my lover. But he doesn't say that. And best goes, mom says you're going to be really sad. She wants the fuck out of there because of all the politics going on. She's like, I can't stand this. Like, it's shitty on a child to be the child of a politician running for president. It's all, we're always on, we're doing this. I want to go to Nantucket. I just want to see the beach. I won't even be with you. Oh, you go see your dying friend. I don't think she knows that it's an affair at all. But she's like, you go see your dying friend. I'll wait in the car. I just want to smell the ocean, get away from all this bullshit in Washington. And then also she says, and mom says, you're going to be really sad. So that I felt like it was a little moment that Ellen gave us of the humanity of Ursula also saying.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I don't think she's trying to bust him or anything. She was trying to say, you need out of here. Your dad's going to need you. He's going to be. He's got to get on a ferry.

[B]

That's a good point.

[A]

Speedboat. I mean, all the things they got to do to get in and out of there. Maybe it's easier now that they have a, they probably have like a presidential jet or something. But anyway, she's like, you're gonna, your, your, your daughter's gonna go with you and be there for you in this tough time. I don't want him to come back alone because she gonna be dead.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

And I thought that was a little bit of a nice moment from Ursula.

[B]

I didn't catch that. Now. I, I appreciate that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I just thought she was trying to set up her and Link. Well, that scene is when I think it. Link goes to the car and like, hey, yeah, Lincoln. I go to. I'm a poli sci major in South Carolina. Oh, we're the same age. We should go hang out the Wilder Beach.

[A]

Yes. Did you read the thing after it? The 28, 29th.

[B]

I did, but now you'll read it.

[A]

Something like that.

[B]

It's like a little 40 page follow up to the.

[A]

Well, I'm curious if that's the thing because there is a little follow up and we can read that at some point and talk about it, but I. He basically says, you have Link. Everyone goes in to say goodbye to Mallory. She's nice to Leland, even though she shouldn't have been, in my opinion. Still, whatever. I guess you're supposed to be nice on your deathbed. And then she, and then she's left alone with Jake, who says, like you said, sings to her, says goodbye to her. And then Link is outside and Bess is waiting in the car like she said she would.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Although I thought it was like just drop her off of the chicken box or something. Let her have like a nice. Although I guess he can't really drop like the daughter of a, of a, of a woman running for president off at the chicken box on Nantucket and assume things are going to Be fine. But. So she waits in the car and then. So Link walks out. And yes, he's a. The son is a poli sci major, which is why he's, like, so thrown off when he gets the phone number to call and finds out that it's Jake. And then he and best Bess is like, can you take me to the beach? And they walk off. So now are we supposed to assume that these two.

[B]

Right. Well, fall in love, conversation on the Internet. What. What. What happened?

[A]

And so do they do that in the follow up thing?

[B]

I think that there's nothing wrong with a long distance relationship unless you're in college.

[A]

Right.

[B]

When you're 19, you're going to Johns Hopkins and you're going to South Carolina. You don't need to, you know, you can be friendly, but you don't need to throw your college years away over a phone.

[A]

We don't know that they did. We don't know what happened. We don't. I'm just.

[B]

I'm just saying that I hope they didn't. I hope they just remain friends. And then I hope every labor day start in five years, they get together for three days and they continue that tradition for 28 years.

[A]

No matter what. No matter what.

[B]

Yes, no matter what.

[A]

Well, I think it would be nice. I think we'd like to believe that maybe they hit it off.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Fell in love. Continue the love of Mallory and Jake. But Ursula was. Ursula say she's not gonna be like, oh, great.

[B]

The love of Anderson.

[A]

I. I think that's. I think they ruled that out as fast. I think Ellen wanted us to know. It's like ruled out by just based on a hair color or something.

[B]

Kill them off in 9.

[A]

11. Yeah, she's like, gotta get rid of. I don't know what I was thinking. Can you die in the World Trade Center? Yeah. So. But I. I did think it was sweet to seem like. To make it seem like, oh, these two might.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Either they meet and they carry it on, and then you get to see the love blossom in their two children that aren't, you know, related because they never got married.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Had they gotten married, their children couldn't have probably dated. Right.

[B]

I mean, legally. Because it'd be like stepbrother and sister.

[A]

Right. I mean, frowned upon. Yeah.

[B]

Frowned upon.

[A]

Yeah. Any closing thoughts for you?

[B]

No, I think I hit it all. I sweated my way all the way through this one. It was really pumped to get to it. I've been holding on to this theory of women empowerment, and I. I Think. If you really think about it, I'm right.

[A]

I think you're right. It's. Listen, I really like this book a lot. I did. I thought it was a nice story.

[B]

That was a good opener for us.

[A]

Yeah. I don't.

[B]

The.

[A]

The cheating thing, again, like we talked about in the beginning, I'm not a. I don't condone it. It's not my thing. It's. I'm reading a book. It's just a nice book. I just said it's a nice escape for people. Everyone's set up different ways. Um, and I did find the confrontation that wasn't really one where Ursula goes to see Mallory, like, oddly satisfying.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I was sort of glad that there had to be.

[B]

There had to be a standoff at some point between them.

[A]

Yeah. And I let. And. Okay, so then just real quick, she. As we all know, she didn't. She said, you can't see him again. Mallory decides not to show up. Quote, unquote, not to show up. As he runs, she runs. But she just creeps on him while he goes to the cottage because she just wants to see his reaction because she can't accept not seeing how he reacts to her not being there for the first time in 27 years or whatever. And then she really is there, hiding. And then, of course, when he figures out you're here somewhere. Right. She runs. She says, just come. Basically, she says, we can't be together. We can't do this. It's too. Everything's changed for you now. I don't know that he knows. I don't think he would ever put together. Ursula came.

[B]

Right. Right.

[A]

And saw you. You're. I think, in his mind, you're doing this for me. Which she was though, right? She still was. She's doing what Ursula asked, and she's doing it for him and not for Ursula, I believe. And she. Anyway, she comes out of hiding. They share a. A long, passionate kiss on the sand. And then he goes away without another word.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Until she's dying.

[B]

Last time he sees her. And the next time he sees her on her deathbed.

[A]

Y. I mean, it's kind of depressing.

[B]

I mean, I guess when we end it like that, I mean, we knew it was going to end with her death, so.

[A]

Yeah, I did cry a little bit at the end.

[B]

I noticed. I saw that.

[A]

Yeah. I showed you one of my tears. Well, that's it.

[B]

Yeah. I think our next book that will.

[A]

Is called On a Quiet Street. Seraphina Nova Glass.

[B]

It'll be a little bit different of a glass.

[A]

Right? Why do I keep this is so John's like as we discussed. John is the. Is the. I'm just googling to make sure I didn't mess up her name. He is the one that will recommend an author be passionate. Okay. Alex just gave me the thumbs up. It was Seraphina Nova glass. She it's on a quiet street. It's a psychological thriller and I'm reading it along with you guys instead of recommending what I've already read. So I'm taking it an odd risk here. Don't get mad at me if you don't like it. We're going to enjoy talking about it together no matter what. But I do think you're going to like it because I'm pretty deep in it right now and I love it and it's fun. It's different every month. We'll change it off like this. Joy, don't forget to follow us at the book list on Instagram and that'll have all the links you need to the Facebook page and to Patreon where you can join us. Where right now we're doing. You can see the video version of this and John sweating and us drinking wine. And then we also add a bunch of other fun stuff to that as well that's exclusive to you guys for $5 a month if you join us there. And if not, please give us a review. That's nice with a five star next to it on Apple or Spotify are the best places to review. And since we have just started out, it really helps if you guys can review for us. So please do that and talk to you next week.

[B]

Can't wait.

[A]

The book list.

[B]

The book lisp.

[A]

The book list.

[B]

The book lisp.

[A]

The book lisp.