“Christmas Presents” by Lisa Unger Full Discussion

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Book Lisp with Jon Ryan & Sarah Colonna

Episode: “Christmas Presents” by Lisa Unger Full Discussion

Release Date: December 29, 2025
Hosts: Jon Ryan & Sarah Colonna

---

Episode Overview

In this lively episode, married hosts Jon Ryan (former NFL Super Bowl Champion) and comedian/actress Sarah Colonna are back to fully discuss Lisa Unger’s psychological thriller, "Christmas Presents." Amid jokes about birthdays, standup gig plugs, and classic “married couple banter,” they break down the book’s plot twists, characters, and writing style—offering both laughs and genuine insight. The discussion is peppered with personal anecdotes about small town life, house parties, and even the hazards of public bathrooms. As always, their tone is playful, opinionated, and frank.

---

Main Discussion & Insights

1. Book Recap & Core Mystery

• Summary of "Christmas Presents":
  • Small town cold case: Two girls vanished and another was attacked during high school days. Their bodies were never found. The main character, Madeline, survived; years later, she receives annual Christmas gifts, presumed to be from her attacker in prison (Evan). A podcaster/author (Harley) comes to town to examine the case, believing there may have been a second perpetrator.
  • Sarah: “For those… that didn’t read along, someone asked me to… give you the lowdown… It is an unsolved mystery, unsolved murder. Two girls disappeared. Another was attacked… A true crime podcaster slash author comes to town to try to get to the bottom of it.” [05:09]

2. The Twist: Identity of the Second Killer

• Jon: “Most of the time you… don’t know who the killer is. Here we already know who the killer is. The mystery is, is there a second killer?” [06:09]
• They were surprised when the story revealed it was Chet, Badger’s little brother, working with Evan, the original perpetrator. Sarah particularly didn’t see this twist coming and highlighted the misdirects aimed at Badger.
  • Sarah: “I definitely didn’t see it coming, that it was going to be Chet… Until they were in the room. Until Badger started acting weird.” [12:05]

3. Structure & Suspense

• Praise for the narrative structure, which alternates between timelines (Lolly’s abduction and Madeline’s investigation), counting down days to Christmas, building tension.
  • Jon: “I really like the format… Kind of goes from Lolly’s story. And it’s like a countdown to Christmas… keeps the two stories separate, but you know they’re intertwined.” [08:30]
• Noted Unger’s skill in making every chapter a page-turner à la “24” with Jack Bauer:
  • Sarah: “Every chapter ended… It was a page turner.” [24:29]

4. Character Deep Dive

• Harley (the podcaster):
  • Mixed feelings. At first presented as potentially smarmy, possibly exploitative, but not outright a villain. His podcast has little effect on actually solving the case, and his role fizzles out toward the end:
    • Jon: “Did he help… Was he a hindrance? Would it have happened if he didn’t come to town?... Character that made no sense… Why does he end up in the [hospital]? We don’t really care about this relationship.” [18:03]
    • Sarah: “His… mission went up and down… wasn’t consistent.” [24:10]
• Badger: The friend-zoned “nice guy” who turns out to be the thoughtful gifter, not a suspect.
• Madeline: Trauma survivor, forever pegged as the “girl who almost died” in a small town.
• Lolly: The current victim whose fight for survival is gripping and gives the narrative propulsion.

5. Themes & Notable Quotes

• Small Town Perceptions:

  • Jon (quoting the book): “That’s the funny thing about growing up in a small town. People rarely update the version of you they hold in their mind.” [40:08]

• The Christmas Gifts Motif:

  • Sarah and Jon debate whether the titular “Christmas presents,” (thoughtful, symbolic gifts Madeline receives annually) genuinely advanced the plot or simply justified the title.
    • Sarah: “Did I feel like the Christmas presents added anything to the story, or just helped us have a nice title and a little tie-in at the end?” [27:33]

• Real-World Parallels:

  • The hosts reflect on the “bad boy” trope, households parties gone wrong, and how little details—like the name of the strip club (“Headlights”)—add just the right touch of humor.
    • Jon: “The gentleman’s club Lolly worked at was called Headlights. And that was really funny.” [43:11]

---

Funniest & Most Memorable Moments

• Public Bathroom Etiquette:

  • Detailed, slightly gross discussion about men’s vs. women’s public restrooms, prompted by an anecdote from a football suite bathroom.
  • Sarah: “It’s from hovering… Now they’re drunk… they’re swaying, then the next girl doesn’t want to sit down because it’s all over the seat, she starts hovering. Yeah, it’s bad.” [38:03]

• Banister Story:

  • Jon tells a story about returning from vacation to find his sisters threw a house party, resulting in “a hole in the wall and someone fell through the banister.” Their parents made the boys responsible come back and repair the damage themselves. [34:45-36:15]

• Book-Within-a-Podcast Meta-Jokes:

  • Multiple callbacks to “The Book Lisp” name confusion, poking fun at themselves and each other, wrapping the episode with their signature tone.

---

Critical Takeaways

Strengths

• Successfully misdirects readers—many suspect Badger, but the reveal of Chet is genuinely effective.
• Alternating timelines build suspense and create a true “page-turner” effect.
• Empathetic handling of trauma and small-town dynamics.
• Cliffhanger chapter endings maintain momentum.

Critiques

• The Harley subplot is undercooked; his impact on the plot is minimal and confusing.
• Some supporting characters (like Badger’s wife, Becky, or Mirabel) feel underdeveloped.

---

Notable Quotes (with Timestamps)

• On Small Town Reputations:

  • Jon (reading from the book): “That’s the funny thing about growing up in a small town. People rarely update the version of you they hold in their mind.” [40:08]

• On the Page-Turner Structure:

  • Sarah: “Every chapter ended… it was a page turner.” [24:29]

• On the Christmas Present Motif:

  • Sarah: “Instead of him just going, no, don’t be creeped out. They’re from me, not him… Can you imagine? You spend all this time… you send a super thoughtful gift to somebody you’ve been in love with your entire life, and she didn’t even get it…” [28:41]

• On Harley’s Live Stream Fiasco:

  • Jon: “If you were on a live stream and someone just came and knocked you out, I’d be like 911 instantly, you know what I mean?” [17:27]

---

Ratings

• Sarah: “I think I’m like a 4.5 martinis out of 5 for this one… His [Harley’s]… character… what he was contributing, felt a little disjointed.” [41:41]
• Jon: “I give it a 10 out of 12. I liked it, but for the same reasons that you had… I give it a ten because of… the gentleman’s club Lolly worked at was called Headlights. And that was really funny.” [43:11]

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Plot Recap and Main Mystery: [05:09–07:28]
• Discussing the Structure and POVs: [08:30–09:29]
• The Big Reveal: [12:05–12:56]
• Character Critiques (Harley and Mirabel subplot): [18:03–20:18]
• Discussion of Amy and Badger’s dynamic: [27:16–31:49]
• Notable Quote about Small Towns: [40:08]
• Final Thoughts and Ratings: [41:41–43:28]

---

Final Thoughts

Whether or not you read “Christmas Presents,” this episode offers an engaging blend of bookish insight, relatable tangents, and married-couple banter. The discussion is accessible for listeners who haven’t read the book, providing enough summary and character depth to follow along, while keeping things light and funny. If you love chatty, spoiler-filled book club podcasts with lots of personality and the occasional digression, this is a must-listen.

Next month’s pick: "Summer Island" by Kristin Hannah

---

For tour dates and Patreon details, visit sarahcolona.com. For all things “The Book Lisp,” follow Jon and Sarah on social media.

Transcript

[A]

Hi, I'm Sarah Colonna.

[B]

And I'm John Ryan.

[A]

And you're listening to the Book List. The Book List.

[B]

The Book Lisp.

[A]

Oh, that's right. You're listening to the Book Lisp. Hello and welcome to the Book Lisp with John Ryan and Sarah Colonna. Hey, John.

[B]

Hello.

[A]

How you doing in the living room there while I'm in the office?

[B]

I'm doing good.

[A]

Great. It's great to see you.

[B]

It's great to be seen, isn't it?

[A]

Hi, Lispinners. Thank you for listening on. On the 29th, the fifth Monday of this month instead of last Monday, that's. We usually do the full review on the fourth Monday of the month, but we had a ton of travel and we realized with a bonus Monday, which usually we just do kind of a random pod that day or maybe interview someone. But we just pushed it to this week so that we could get it to you because we couldn't last week. And we appreciate you being patient because it's the full review. It's the most exciting week of the year or the month.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And if you have. Yeah. And if you have. Jungkook just got a haircut, by the way. It looks great, babe. I didn't tell you when I walked in.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

You'll be able to see it in the clip that we post. My hair looks a little crazy because it's about to rain the day that we're recording this in California and things go awry when that happens. If you're listening to this on Monday the 29th, it's my birthday, so.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Thanks for. Yeah, thanks, John. I don't know what he got me yet because we haven't. Because we're recording ahead of time. But I'm sure I loved it. And you're. We'll probably be having margaritas by the time you guys download this. Well, maybe not until. Depends on when you download it. Probably not till at least noon. We're going to go to our favorite Mexican restaurant and have margaritas and lunch during the day because I don't feel like going anywhere that night. We got a big week coming up.

[B]

I asked her where she wants to go and she only said El Mariachi. So.

[A]

El Mariachi. They do 50% off on Mondays. Why wouldn't I want to go there when my birthday falls on a Monday?

[B]

There's no reason not to.

[A]

No, I don't want to do anything else. We're going to Spokane. If you're listening to this on the 29th, we're leaving on the 30th for Spokane, Washington, so that I can do shows. New Year's Eve, two shows at Spokane Comedy Club. If you don't have your tickets, get them. John will be with me. We are going to do a live advent calendar shot. If you're following that. We're going to do one on stage that night because it happens to be a Wednesday and that's where we were doing them. Maybe we'll have someone record it so that we can use that as our. For our Instagram. That'll be the finale, right?

[B]

Yeah, sure. Sounds good.

[A]

Won't it be? Oh, no.

[B]

I thought we were gonna do the finale on Christmas, and now this makes more sense to go all the way to New Year's Eve.

[A]

Oh, you thought we were gonna. Oh, I see. You thought we were done on Christmas. Wow.

[B]

No, we'll go all the way. All the way to New Year's Eve. My liver can hold out for another week.

[A]

Another week. So. And then we're gonna move on to Tacoma Comedy Club, January 2nd and 3rd. So get your tickets t to that. And I have four shows there. I know that. I know a couple of them are pretty busy, the early ones, but there's still some tickets. And then I will give you some more dates. February 6th in Jefferson, Iowa. And then February 12th through the 14th in Springfield, Missouri. And then February 20th in Chicago. February 21st in St. Louis. Those two. The Chicago and St. Louis are city winery. Shows are going to be really fun. And then the 27th and 28th again in Iowa. These are the Wild Rose Casino and resorts. And that's Emmitsburg and Clinton. And then Appleton, Wisconsin, in March and Arlington, Virginia, in April. So I have a lot of dates, and those are all on sarahcolona.com go ahead and get your tickets now to any of them. Make me look good?

[B]

Yes, please.

[A]

We are about to review Christmas Presents by Lisa Unger. I loved it. It was a little different than my normal reads, but I thought it was great. Remind them what their January book is. Kristin Hannah.

[B]

Krista Hannah. I forget, babe. Summer Affair.

[A]

No, hold on. Well, well, okay. Okay, Kristin Hannah. I'll just keep talking. You can join us on Patreon. And we do really fun random podcasts there on the 5th and the 25th. We did one on Christmas Eve this year and then put it out on on Christmas Day for people. We do video pods. We also do a book review, a short story book review on the. On the 15th. Summer island by Kristin Hannah is a January book. Okay. So join us on Patreon for $5 for all that stuff. We love our short stories. They're so fun. And Kristen, Hannah, Summer island. And then I'll tell you guys on Patreon in a couple days what your short story is for January. That last one was so good for December. Yeah. Okay, so let's get into it. I have some. I have some overall thoughts. I have some random thoughts. Now, this book, for those of you that didn't read along, someone asked me to go ahead and give you the lowdown on what it's about, because some people just listen. It is an unsolved mystery, unsolved murder. Two girls disappeared. Another was attacked. The girls that disappeared were never found. This is in a very small town. And then a true crime podcaster slash author comes to town to try to get to the bottom of it. The one guy, there's a guy in prison. So it's not fully unsolved it was a guy in prison, but they believe he believes something else happened that night. Everyone else believes. A lot of people believe someone else was involved, including her father. We find out there was someone else involved, and that's the story.

[B]

Yeah, it's interesting because most of the time you go listen to a book like this or a podcast or a TV show, and you don't know who the killer is. Here we already know who the killer is. The mystery is, is there a second killer?

[A]

Right. Because someone else goes missing and it all becomes very similar to the crime that happened a long time ago was this guy is in prison. They go, well, how can these be happening again? We didn't think this would happen again. So this guy comes to town, he starts putting together that other people have been missing within this mapped area. And that's how that we discover who.

[B]

The Madeline even says, she goes, madeleine doesn't want to believe there was a second person because then there's two monsters out there, right?

[A]

And she put there were there were.

[B]

Were there ever.

[A]

Turned out it was her. We, I mean, you guys all read it. That's why we're doing this. So it turns out it was her best friend, this guy named Badger, who is married now. They all went to high school together. All this happened in high school, but now they're all really good friends. I mean, they're just friends. But then Badger's married, but it turns out he's been love with her the whole time. So there's a little romance thrown in there. Now, I. It turns out it was his little brother that was working with this guy, that Chet and the guy Evan. Right. Is that the guy that's in jail?

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Yeah. And so they were working together the whole. And they worked together to get the. The other girls and they attacked her together. Everything. He was a part of it. Then he's gone on and continued to. He. He kidnaps this woman. Woman who works at a strip club. That's kind of what kicks off the book because this girl goes missing and he had basically had them out at this like his grandparents place that nobody goes to. And his brother type thing. Yeah. And his brother Badger didn't know. Right. So his brother finds out at the end, kind of like we do. The girl from the beginning escapes, which was nice. I like that we had an escape while he gets out. What do you think? I liked the way this was written. So I did go and listen on the audiobook too. And I really. If you guys didn't listen to the audiobook, the narrator was great. I thought she did a really good job. So I actually quite enjoyed it because I had to listen back, as I always do because I'd read it so early in the month.

[B]

I really like the format of it, how it kind of goes from Lolly's story. And it's like a countdown to Christmas because she's supposed to be going home, but she gets kidnapped that time. And it goes back and forth between that and the. It'll be like, you know, days or six days before Christmas and it jumps back to chapter 14. And the other keeps the two stories separate, but you know, they're intertwined at some time. And you kind of see. Because there's a countdown to Christmas and kind of see the countdown to when it's going to intertwine.

[A]

Yes. I like that too. I liked that. So because Lolly is the girl that goes missing that worked at this. Worked at the strip club. And it opens with her and of course she wakes up in this basement and that it's turns out it was chat that. That got her. That took her there. And he. She does like, like I said, she gets away because she fights. Fights really hard. And then she ends up getting into his truck to get away and then lets it roll. And then, and then this is like. Right. It coincides. Like John was saying right at the end when that happens. It coincides with Madeline. Madeline.

[B]

Madeline and Badger coming to find her.

[A]

Coming to. Yeah, going to the house because he basically. Badgers put it together. He's like, I, I, I see this map. I realized that Chet was at the party the night the two girls went missing. And the Mal.

[B]

When they go to Maddie's house, where her dad's room. She still has a room because he was still obsessed with this. These murders and these lost women because he was the sheriff. But now he's like. Can barely talk because he had a stroke. And they're up there, and he basically, like, crawls up there, basically, to try to get their attention. And then at that point, they're like, oh, my God, it was badgers. Like, it was my brother.

[A]

Yeah. And they don't. Yeah, they don't call the cops. He's like, it's my brother. We're going out there. We're gonna. You know, so they end up catching him. And it. So one thing that was interesting that it turned. They say, it turns out this is just a little random thing, but. So the guy that was in prison did attack, but he. Chet was working with him and then continuing on. And it turns out they were in contact the whole time. Right. They said he was basically like this really dark soul that kind of took Chet and Who was a little bit lost and got him not, you know, to work with him and to be as up as him. I mean, you know, you'd have to. You'd have to work really hard to get some. A normal person to do that. So there's obviously something wrong with Chet, too. But they talked about how they corresponded this whole. Whole time that he's been in prison through emails and stuff. Do they not monitor that?

[B]

Yeah, I watch Dateline. They have video, they have recordings of every phone call in prison, don't they? Unless. I mean, I. They. I mean, they check all their mail coming in. They. If someone was plotting this, I mean, that might have been. Maybe not a hole, but just something conveniently done that you can't do in the real world to make the story better.

[A]

Right. I mean, I understand it's a book and not. Yeah. Because I was like, can't they. Can you write emails about, hey, why don't you go kill this girl and put her in your cabin while you're in prison?

[B]

But maybe it was like, no, maybe he has a phone inside that he wasn't supposed to have, but he had.

[A]

But he. They said it was on emails. And I just feel like.

[B]

But I see an email on your phone, right?

[A]

I guess. I guess. I don't know. Something. Something.

[B]

I haven't done hard time, so I wouldn't know.

[A]

Not yet.

[B]

Yet.

[A]

Now I felt like there was so. So definitely some misdirects where she was trying to make us think it was badger Here and there. Did you feel that?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, I get that here and there. It was for the most part. For the most part, I had no clue, to be honest.

[A]

I definitely didn't see it coming, that it was going to be Chet until when they did. Really? Until they were in the room. Until Badger started acting weird. But even when Badger started acting weird, I thought, is it going to be. Turn out to be Badger? Because, you know, there's the. All along he was in love with her. When she and Evan start dating, Badger's like, he's a bad guy. He's obviously jealous about it. Her and her friends kind of get a fall apart. And then one, it turns out one.

[B]

Of the girls, Steph, was banging him.

[A]

The whole time Stephanie was banging him. I know. But then she died.

[B]

So Evan Handy killed her.

[A]

Yeah, he ended up killing her. And she tried. She told her the reason she told, which I thought was, is it Madeline or Madison? What's wrong with me?

[B]

Madeline.

[A]

Okay, thank you. The reason she ended up telling Madeline. So it was the night of this big party that is. Is when all this went down to the two girls went missing. Stephanie gets killed and Madeline gets away. Now Stephanie tells her, because Madeline's going. She's. That night she's like, I'm gonna lose my virginity to Evan. I'm ready. I had. Blah, blah, blah. So Stephanie says, I know what's going on. I know you're gonna lose your virginity tonight. Don't do it. He's a bad guy. And then she starts saying. She admits that she has been having sex with him the whole time. And she says, I honestly tried to stop it, but there's something wrong with him. Kind of indicating that he was a little forceful or whatever, brainwashing, whatever he was with her. You know, she knows that she shouldn't have done it in the first place, but that. So what's interesting to me about that little piece, that she admits it and then at first Madeline's pissed, but then she kind of decides that she's just lying to me to fuck with me. Because she always wants to have the upper hand and she wants to have all the attention. So it's really that moment in the book and in their story that kind of alters all of their lives completely. Because if Madeline had either, I don't know, not had been pissed at him and not gone to see him, maybe. Right. Like in this way you just go, this is so sad. Because just all this. All this stuff kind of. I mean, I know it's not a real Story, but you know what I'm saying, it all kind of altered the course of their. All of their lives.

[B]

But you wonder in situations like this, like in the real world, if he hadn't killed them that night, would he have just killed them the next weekend or the next day? Like, you know what I mean?

[A]

The guy's a psychopath. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I just. Talking about sort of that night, looking back, I'm sure it's for all the characters. You see this sort of pivotal moment for everyone. And, you know, Harley, who is the true crime podcaster, author, he comes to town.

[B]

His character's interesting to me.

[A]

Yeah, go ahead. What do you think?

[B]

Is he. Is he a good guy? Is he a scumbag? Did he help to. To solve this murder? Was he a hindrance? Would it have happened if he didn't come to town? I mean, the whole thing was like, oh, he wrote this story, I think, in the New York Times, whatever. And people say it was kind of like. I don't know if it was plagiarized or he was like, fake, whatever. And he brings that up. So you kind of think like, oh, this guy kind of lying. And then at one point you're like, oh, no, maybe he's a good guy. Maybe he's trying to help. Then he goes out, he does a live stream on his YouTube, and he's like, I'm where the killings happened, and these are thousands of people watching this. And then he had his buddy Roger come and punch him in the head and, like, knock him out.

[A]

Yeah. And try to fake to.

[B]

Try to like. Like grow a bigger crowd for his YouTube stream or whatever. They're like, well, this guy's a douchebag now. He's an asshole.

[A]

I know. I felt like there was a couple things with that. It was. It was kind of. What was the point of that? And then you think, oh, it's probably just to remind us that he is kind of a douchebag who was. Get. Doing stuff for clicks. But because he kind of. They make it. They set it up very dramatic. Oh, and then everything went black. Whatever. And there's a. And then it turns out it was his friend Roger, who they call Raj, which I can. I just. I'm sorry if your friends call you Raj, but tell them not to. I don't. I don't know why. That nickname drives. Drives me crazy. How do you feel about it?

[B]

There was, like, a really famous football player in my hometown, and his name was Roger Aldeg. Everyone called him Rog, so. And I knew him and he's a good guy, so I kind of like it.

[A]

All right, that's.

[B]

That's what I think of when I think of it.

[A]

All right, agree to disagree. See, guys, the married couple, sometimes we disagree on things. So go hang out with your buddy Ross.

[B]

Fight tonight about this.

[A]

Yeah, we sure are so, so mad at you.

[B]

Stop running that mouth, stupid.

[A]

No, but yeah, so we find. And then we find out that. Okay, yeah, he told Raj her to come do this. And I don't really know the point. I guess it was to get clicks and get people talking, but then nobody even follows up. None of his. He talks about how nobody sends the police. None of you know, nobody on his Instagram. Really. Nobody. There was no follow up from them. But there was also no follow up in the book. Right where. Oh, I, right. I went, I went back on live and told everybody I was okay. Like, nothing.

[B]

Right? Like, his, like, his, like, friend, maybe slightly girlfriend, Mirabelle saw it and then she, like, calls him. I'm like, if I was on. If you were on a live stream and someone just came and knocked you out, I'd be like 911 instantly. You know what I mean?

[A]

Yeah, I would hope so.

[B]

Is that when he walks out? Is that when he gets walked, walks up to his truck and gets shot?

[A]

No, but that's. So that was fake. Yeah, so that. And then later he does check. Comes and shoots both of them, and they both are fine. I'm not sure I understood the point of him ending up in the hot. I don't. I. There was a little bit with him that I didn't understand.

[B]

Character. That made no sense to me. Like, what. Why does he end up in the. We don't really care about his character. So I don't really care about this, like, relationship that he has with Mirabel that they talk about her like two or three times just like. And she's never really in it until the last scene. And then she comes and she's like, no, I, I. Yeah, Roger's like, I've been screwing her too. And he's like, no, I'm in love with you. And then it kind of ends. It's like, well, no, no one cares about either of these characters. I don't know why that's the big ending that she's gonna run off into the sunset with Harley. Like, we don't care about Harley.

[A]

Wait, she wasn't screwing Roger too, right?

[B]

He said he was.

[A]

Oh, I thought he said he just had a crush on her. Oh, okay.

[B]

He said he was sleeping with her. Maybe he's faking it, but I'm just saying I didn't understand that whole relationship. It was like, at this point, like, oh, my. I think he was like an assistant or whatever she was. And then he's like, oh, but we slept together. And then they talk. Like, she calls after that next scene that we just talked about, and then she walks into the room, the hospital room at the very end. It's like, oh, no, we need to be together. I've always loved you. It's like, that was very confusing. Like, Harley's character was a little bit confusing to me. I thought he should have either been a less of a role or more of a role.

[A]

Yeah. So what's. And I agree with you because in the beginning with. He come. When he comes to town, he talks about this Mirabel, how they hooked up, and he really does have feelings with her. And then she said he. She said something. Oh, about last night when he got to this small town to investigate. He's like, oh, don't worry about it. You know, we're cool. And then she got offended because she probably wanted to say that she really likes him. And he's like, oh, I always do this. I get my own way. So then he acts like he probably. So they're like, oh, this is a guy who actually was really into her. But then he kind of just blows it off again. He's. He's a little all over the map. Which, as a character, right?

[B]

Yeah. But I thought maybe the one reason they did put her in there is to make sure there was nothing that was going to happen between him and Madeline. Because he comes in the first day of the bookstore. And that's usually how all these books start, where the guy comes to town, girl owns bookstore. Oh, my God. This guy. She like, oh, my God, he's so hot. And then she tweets about it. Oh, my God, you wouldn't believe who's here. And then like, when you're reading that book, you're like, okay, they're going to end up together.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So maybe just to set the reader straight right away that they're not going to end up together, they put in Maribel.

[A]

That's possible. Because I was wondering that at the beginning, because I thought, oh, here we go. We got a little Hallmark sitch. We got a little, hey, this famous author comes into the bookstore in a small town to solve a true crime podcast. And then what happens? He falls in love with the victim and blah, blah, blah. But then, yeah, he Turned out to be kind of useless. Right. He didn't. He didn't solve it. Now they got. Right. So he. He interviews her, he talks about it. He. He interviews after. But the. Madeline and Badger and her father solved it.

[B]

Right. Do you think they're trying to say, like, they got them talking about it again or got them being open up about it again? Because I was like, yeah, the podcast that he's doing hasn't even started yet. When they solve the crime.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So this podcast doesn't do anything to solve the crime.

[A]

No. So if anyone thinks podcasts are useless, you're right. I'm just kidding. You're right. And that's why you're listening to one right now. No, I just think. Yeah, I think. Cause I liked the setup that it was. He comes to town, she owns. She's the victim. He approaches her. I thought they were going to solve it together. He only interviewed her a couple of times. And that's where the. Some of this misdirect came in with Badger. Right. So Badger's like, don't talk to him about it. Badger says. Badger says something early on. She remembers how when he first met his wife, who ends up leaving him out of nowhere. So that I think Badger and Madeline can be together for us at the end. Becky, I believe her name was he. He. She. She mentions how the first time they met, she. He was like, she was super hot and he was kind of not. And. And she thought he said, what could she possibly see in me? And Madeline said, well, she sees your soul. And he said, I hope not. And then she says, to this day, I don't know what he means by that. So that's why I think there was these little nuggets where she wanted us to think Lisa Unger wanted us to think it was Badger, but it wasn't. It was just bro and little brother Chet.

[B]

Everyone's little brother. The tag. Tag along.

[A]

Yeah. And I also think that was also. There was another little misdirect. There's a couple with him, I guess. And so I'm glad it didn't turn out to be Badger. But, yeah, they don't. Harley didn't really do anything except come in, fake an attack, complain about Madeline.

[B]

By the Wallace's house, which is interesting. Which would have been like a good. Would have been a good podcast idea. Like, you go to a town to. To kind of like solve an old murder. That's a cold case file. And you move into the murdered people's house. Yeah, but he moved into the Wallace Family's house. That would have been like. That would be a good idea for like, a reality show.

[A]

Oh, yeah. A little dark. Yeah, because. And it's dark. He does that. So that's how you. That's how we're introduced to him. Is that, you know, after that. Yeah. He buys the house that from the. From the mother of the women, the two girls that are still missing, and decides he's gonna make that part of his story in his podcast. I felt like his point of view changed kind of at the end to really wanting to find these girls and give the family closure instead of the guy who loves attention. So to your point of him being a little all over the map or inconsistent, I kind of. I kind of felt like his. His sort of mission went up and down. Yeah, right. Does that make sense?

[B]

Yeah, I get that. Yeah, that makes sense. I can see that by the end, he's kind of. He's there for the right reasons. Maybe by the end.

[A]

Yeah. But it wasn't consistent.

[B]

Like a guy on the Bachelorette, he's here for the right reasons, but at first he wasn't there for the right reasons.

[A]

Right. And then he falls in love and he is there for the right reasons.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

Right, Robin? That's right. One thing I think done very well in this book is every chapter ended. It was a page turner.

[B]

It was like episode 24 with Jack Bauer back in the day. Every episode ended with a cliffhanger. Every episode, you wanted to watch the next episode right away.

[A]

Why would you bring that up?

[B]

Like, at 1. 59, something's gonna go down. At 7. 59, something's gonna go Down. 8:59, something's gonna go down every week when you watch that show.

[A]

Right. Why would you bring that up? Cause you know how much I miss my show.

[B]

I know, but I think it's so funny. It's like a show that's, like. It takes course over 24 hours, but at the end of every hour, something crazy happens.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Right on cue.

[A]

And that was the best part about it. And then he'd go, damn it. Um.

[B]

Damn it.

[A]

Damn it. I got. I love that show. I missed my. I missed me some Jack Bauer. I don't know if I might have to binge that tonight. Okay. Yeah, hers all ended with a cliffhanger. It was every page. So Lolly's story, like, you were talking about how it coincides with everything. Her. She wakes up in this dark basement and. And it's so creepy. The guy Chet. When we. We find out later it was Chet, but he's, like, wearing a Santa mask.

[B]

Yeah, I know. I was gonna bring that up. Very creepy.

[A]

I don't like that. Don't ruin Santa for me.

[B]

No, he's.

[A]

He's real, right?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. Yeah. They made. I didn't like. It was so. It was just all so creepy. And she kind of talks about how she. It's. It's driving her kind of crazy because she's like. It's so. It's so ridiculous that it's almost funny because she's kind of losing it. Right. She's locked in here. She doesn't know for how long. She keeps dreaming about her mom, and her dreaming about her mom is sort of what keeps getting her going. She. She hears her mom telling her to fight her, to run all these things, and that's. She. I love how much she just fought. I feel like I just curl up in a corner and. But I think her story, I like to. Every page. That it. Back to the page turner. Sorry, I'm all over the place. But it would be like, okay. And then everything went dark. And then you're like, oh, shit. Right, Right. And then.

[B]

It was really well written.

[A]

Yeah, it was very well written. I. I don't know. I was very glad she got out, obviously. And I. I will say. Oh, the Christmas presents part. Right? That's the title of the book. So every year on Christmas since her attack that she survived, Madeline has gotten mystery Christmas gifts delivered to her yard, Right?

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Kind of. Yeah. And she just assumes. And she's like, I know they're from Evan. I don't know how, but I know. I know that he's sending them from prison to mess with me. All this stuff. Stuff. Well, we. It turns out it was Badger.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

All along. And he thought she knew because they were kind of meaningful ones, like this music box. And he just figured that she knew. Other than that. Chris, that's just another part. Did I feel like the Christmas presents added anything to the story or just helped us have a nice title and a little tie in at the end that we. Yeah, we know.

[B]

I think it has made a nice title, and I think it just goes back. It shows you that Badgers, like, cared for her so much, giving her the. These were, like, really thoughtful gifts. They gave her, like, a shell because they wanted to go to the beach someday, and a music box. And I forget what the other ones were, but he gave her these very thoughtful, deep gifts. And some of them, she didn't even really pick up on why she was Getting them. She thought they were coming from Evan, but when she tells Badger, she goes, I've never told anyone this, but I'm getting these gifts every year from Evan. At that point, why wouldn't he have been like, they're actually from me? And she's like, oh, my God, we got to tell somebody.

[A]

Oh, right. Yeah.

[B]

He's like, oh, my God, we got to tell somebody.

[A]

And then he doesn't tell her until the end.

[B]

Right.

[A]

That's a little hole. Seems like a little hole. Because I. Can you imagine, though, if you. That part aside, where instead of him just going, no, don't. Don't be creeped out. They're from me, not him. But I guess because he was still with his wife at the time, and he thought he couldn't admit to her yet because the wife hadn't left him yet. I don't know. But I. Can you imagine? You spend all this time. Every Christmas, you send a super thoughtful gift to somebody you've been in love with your entire life, and she didn't even get it. She didn't pick up on it. She's like, I don't know. I got a shell. I don't know. I don't know what that means. I think it's from the guy that tried to kill me, and it's really just from a guy who loves you so much, he thinks about these little things and thinks that you're gonna know and pick up on them, and you're just like, nope, no idea.

[B]

Yeah. That'd be a little disheartening. It'd be a little disheartening, but, I mean, I wouldn't give another woman gifts when I was married.

[A]

Wow. Shots fired at Badger.

[B]

But he said Becky was. They were done for a long time.

[A]

Yes. And I wonder, because her character, too. So it's just. So I guess we have. Oh. Badger and Madeline aren't. You know, they've been friends forever, but they're not going to be together because he is already married, and the wife's kind of not a big fan of hers, it seems like. Right. Yeah. We find out probably later, it's probably because she's. She. She knows that her husband's obsessed with her or something.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Which will kind of make you not like someone.

[B]

Probably not.

[A]

Yeah. But she felt like a kind of this ancillary character that I don't. Right. Was she just there for that reason?

[B]

I think so. Yeah. I think that she was there to kind of give a reason why Badger wasn't with Madeline the whole time.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's funny, you know, because she's like. She always thought that Badger came back to save her that night, and he goes, I didn't come back to save you. I didn't want. You told me you didn't want me to be there. I came back. What do you call. He came back for his brother or something.

[A]

Right. Because his brother snuck into the party.

[B]

Yeah. So he's like, I never came back for you. I would have just like. That was, like, right at the end, too. And he's like, oh, my God, you saved my life. You came back for me. He's like, I didn't come back for you. I'd have been like. Instead. What you should have said, Badger, is. I know, right? Okay, when someone gives you a huge comment like, oh, my God, you saved my life. I didn't save your life. You just go, I know, right?

[A]

Take credit.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah, totally. I totally saved your life.

[A]

I totally saved your life.

[B]

Nothing. Nothing. Wants her to. Wants her to keep her panties on more than. No, I didn't. No, I didn't save your life.

[A]

That's a good point. He should have taken credit. And when he gave. When he said it was me giving you the gifts and she decided she was in love with him, too, she should have been like, no, I know. Yeah. No, no, no. I was just kidding when I say I totally got it. I totally got the seashell thing and I got the music box thing.

[B]

Oh, yeah. Yeah. I can't believe you gave me such thoughtful gifts. Like. Like, you know that one shell. You gave it to me because the. What are you going to say?

[A]

The beach. Because you always want to go to the beach. The beach.

[B]

Right away. Because the beach. Yeah. Yeah, I knew. I knew it because it was the. Yeah, I knew it. Thank you so much.

[A]

Yeah. These two didn't know how to get out of their own way with each other. Just.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Just turning it down. Oh, no, I didn't try to save you. Do you ever have a house party?

[B]

No, I never had, like, more than, like, were away, like, 10, 20 people over when I was. I mean, I had a house party in our house for 150 people last week.

[A]

I know that. I'm just talking about, like.

[B]

No, it's like. It's like in a team. No, I was. I was too scared, too. A lot of the other parties.

[A]

Yeah. Because this. The party that. Where they. Where everyone gets attacked in the. And all this awful stuff is. It's a house party that Badger has while his mom is out of town. Now he came. He comes rolling into town. He's a. He's got a bad reputation.

[B]

He's a bad boy.

[A]

Bad boy. Madeline already. Madeline's dad already knows because they got a. He's the sheriff. So he gets a call from where he came from, whatever.

[B]

Paid Evan a visit before Madeline even knew.

[A]

Yes. He says, God night. I keeping an eye on you, buddy. And for this guy to then go, I mean, he's still. He doesn't give a. He still attacks the sheriff's daughter. I mean, this guy's a psycho. But he was the bad guy. And right away, all the friends saw it, except, of course, Stephanie, who wanted to bang him. And then she found out he was the bad guy. And I don't. Did you ever have anyone like that in your.

[B]

School?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Not that I can really think of, no.

[A]

Just.

[B]

I remember I had a lot of friends, like, in college and stuff, and I was like, I just want a bad boy. I want to date a bad boy. And they get a call at like, 3am on a Wednesday. He hasn't come home. I haven't seen him in three days. I'm like, you wanted the bad boy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Now he's doing bad things. The. What do you think was going to come with that guy does not do anything bad.

[A]

I was never into, like, a bad guy. I don't. I would. Or quote, unquote, bad guy. I mean, listen, we have limited options in Farmington, Arkansas, as there was, so. But I did have, like. We had a couple house parties when my parents would go camping.

[B]

Really? Did anything ever happen bad?

[A]

I don't. Nothing ever. Nothing bad ever happened. I just don't. I don't know how they never found out because it's not like they were quiet.

[B]

Well, we. When I was, like, younger, I was probably in, like, seventh or eighth grade. Brother was, like, fifth grade. My parents took us to Minot, North Dakota. Not to brag. That was our vacation.

[A]

Why not Minot? That's what we called it. Right.

[B]

For a hockey tournament. So we're gone from, like, Friday morning to Sunday night. My sisters were both in high school. I don't know. We use my. My grandma's car or whatever. So our car was at my grandma's. So we get back to my grandma's and switch cars. And there's a note in the car that says, hi, mom and dad. Welcome home. We had a little party and a couple things might have broken. There's a hole in the wall, and someone fell through the banister. Hope you guys had a good Trip.

[A]

There's a hole in the wall and someone fell through the banister.

[B]

Someone punched a hole in the wall and someone fell through the banister and whatever. My. My parents were crazy for some reason. They got the giggles and they fricking laughed their ass off 15 minutes all the way home.

[A]

Oh, really?

[B]

They thought it was so funny. Like, it was like, hi, mom and dad, welcome home. We had a little party.

[A]

I mean, it is pretty funny, but. And that's a good way to do.

[B]

It, you know, My dad did. He found out who punched the hole in the wall and who broke the banister, and he had them both over one Sunday afternoon, and he bought the supplies, made them pay for it, made them help fix it with him.

[A]

Oh, okay.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Wow. So they. So they thought they were coming over to hang out or did they?

[B]

No, no, no. They already knew. My dad was never a surprise guy. He's like, this is how much it's gonna cost. I want you guys both here, and we're gonna fix it together.

[A]

Oh, that's a good way to do it. Little lesson learned. Your dad was probably a joy to hang out with, even if he was a little mad at you, right?

[B]

Yeah, he was a little dry, but.

[A]

Yes, that's one good way to do it. I mean, instead of making Laker sisters do it because they had the party.

[B]

Yeah. I don't know. That's the way they went about it.

[A]

I like it. Yeah. Come into my house, even if it's a party that I haven't approved. You better not break the banister and you better not punch a hole in the wall or you're gonna come over and patch it up with me on a Sunday afternoon.

[B]

I mean, it wasn't not my sister's fault, but it's like, let's be. When stuff like that happens at a party, when someone gets mad that their girlfriend's outside and with someone else and punches a hole and someone falls. The thing that the things that people are going to break are going to be guys. Okay? So I think my dad was like, I'm going to teach these guys a bit of a lesson without, like, freaking calling the cops or something.

[A]

Yeah. Guys.

[B]

You know what I'm saying?

[A]

Yeah. Guys are usually the ones to probably break stuff. But, I mean, girls are no prize. I'll tell you.

[B]

No.

[A]

As far as, like, respecting public places, you, the girls, women's public.

[B]

I have to clean 20 public bathrooms every morning. Girls have no respect for toilet paper. Throw it all around all willy nilly. And also, girls pee all Over. I'm not gonna lie to you. Pee all over. How do girls pee all over? They hover. They hover. Sometimes they don't know where it's going. They found that out when I was 19 years old and had to clean bathrooms.

[A]

I know, you're right. No, because it is from hovering, I believe, because we're all trying to avoid sitting on the public toilet, and I get that. And. But. But I mean, it's. It's a pretty large bowl, right? You should be able to.

[B]

The target's pretty big.

[A]

Yeah, you don't have to aim. You should be able to. I think what. How. I think what's really going on. What's doing. Because when I used to work at the. At the bars, that's what I would see. See the girls room, and I'd go, oh, my God, can I go? And then I'd go into the men's room because I could cut the line because I was bartending. So I was like. I would just jump in front of the guys. I'd be like, I got to go in there. You guys stand. Stand guard or whatever, because it's so disgrace. But what happened? They're hovering, but now they're drunk.

[B]

Right, right, right, right.

[A]

So they're swaying, and they're getting sway. And then the next girl doesn't want to sit down because it's all over the seat, she starts hovering. Yeah, it's bad.

[B]

Here's what happened last week at the Seahawks game. We were in a suite, and here's the problem. There's one bathroom in the suite. There's whatever, 32 people in that suite. Right. 4, 8, 12, 24 people in the suite. So I'm waiting to go to the bathroom. A guy comes out. I go in, and he urinated on the seat and didn't flush the toilet. So first of all, flush the toilet. Disgusting. Name? I. I will name them. There's two of them in there. But then I'm like. But now I have to clean up the mess on the seat because there's someone in line behind me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So if I don't clean it up, then they're going to assume it's me. Now I'm cleaning up this mess.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

And it happened twice the other day. And I know the one guy keeps on doing it because I've been in there with him before.

[A]

Well, you can tell me after the podcast, because now I want to know. And that's what I used to do, too. I would always clean up the girl. I might wipe. I roll up A ton of bunch. A bunch of toilet paper. Wipe it, because I don't want to be blamed for this. Anyway, random tangent. Got off topic. Okay. Overall, is there anything else that stood out to you in the book?

[B]

No, I just wanted to talk about one quote that Madeline said that's so true of, like, people that live in small towns. And I. I know people have yelled at me and like, regina's not a small town. I'm like, it isn't a small town in that everyone kind of stays there. So everyone knows each other's business, especially in times school. You know what I mean? It has a small town feel. And people have yelled at me on inter. On social media before. I'm like, it has a small town feel, but not as small as, like, probably where you grew up.

[A]

But.

[B]

But she says, that's the funny thing about growing up in a small town. People rarely update the version of you they hold in their mind. So it's like she will forever be the girl who almost died.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, no matter what. Like that. You just carry around that forever. And that's kind of like the. There's so many good things about small towns, but so many things like that that would be really hard to live with.

[A]

Yeah. Especially if something like that happens to you. And everyone is always gonna, you know, she has a scar on her face. Everyone's always gonna associate her with that. They're always gonna associate her with the two missing girls who were her good friends that went away. And. And then. And we don't get, for the most part, at the end of this book, I do like that most everyone gets closure. Right. We know that she has closure on who attacked her. Not that it feels great that it was her best friend's brother and everyone else a little brother to her in a lot of ways. And. And then. And now the. And they know that the house where he was, where he was, and where he was taking everybody was. They know that they're probably going to find those two girls. We don't. They don't find him by the end of the book, but we know that that's where they were taken. We know that's where Lolly was because, like, Lolly comes running out, so she gets. She does get to go home for Christmas. So for the most part, everyone gets closure in the end. Even Harley and his random side story of finding out, you know, like, we're supposed to care that Madeline's in love with them. Even. Even we get a little closure on that. But. So I like that about it.

[B]

Even the closure that we get is that they say it very briefly, but it said, madeline's dad is doing a lot better. And my mom was there and held his hand, and she didn't even push it away. Like, all of a sudden, the mom that's the vagabond traveling all over the world doing yoga or whatever, now he's. She's back in the picture at the very end.

[A]

Yeah, the mom comes back because she had a. She had taken off young, real young, when Madeline was young. And. Yeah. So everyone gets a nice closure. I. I think overall, I like. I said, I really like the writing style. I really like the fact that we had a cliffhanger. It was a. It was a page turner to me because I. She kind of leaves you hanging at the end of each chapter like a good suspense writer does. And I was surprised by it being Chet at the end. I, I think. I think I'm like a.4 and a half martinis out of five for this one only because I. I know why. I know that the story is interesting. I know that true crime podcasts are big. I know him being in the town made everyone, you know, brought everything up for them again. But it felt a little disjointed. His. His pre. Right. It just felt a little disjointed, sort of who his character was and what he was contributing, in my opinion. If you guys are allowed to have your own opinions, you can talk about it in the book listeners Facebook group. John, how many?

[B]

I give it a 10 out of 12. I liked it, but for the same reasons that you had. I was gonna give it a nine and a half. I give it a ten because of. The gentleman's club that Lolly worked at was called Headlights. And that was really funny.

[A]

It was really funny. Yeah, I liked. I liked that Sad Things Happen. It had lights, but other than that, it was entertaining.

[B]

Definitely. Go out and read it if you haven't.

[A]

Yeah, go out and read it if you haven't and get your taste.

[B]

For Spokane, Washington, on New Year's Eve towards Sarah Colonna and on the second and third in Tacoma, Washington. TacomaComedyClub.com or SarahColona.com we'll see you there.

[A]

That's right. And we'll see you next week with the first week kicking off January with John's Kristen Hannah. What'd I say?

[B]

Love Island. I forget.

[A]

Why can't you remember the name of this book?

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

I. I'm gonna. I'm gonna Google it again. Just because I want, everyone? Well, we said it at the beginning. I can't find it. John? Nothing?

[B]

Nope.

[A]

Island. Summer Island. Lord.

[B]

There you go.

[A]

Love Island's a TV show that we like, so that's your thing. And then join us on Patreon. $5 a month. We do super fun video podcasts for three times a month, and one of them is a short story, and we have a ton of fun with those. And you can go watch them all back when you join if you want to read along with any of those. See you guys next week.

[B]

Bye.

[A]

Bye. The book Lisp?

[B]

The book Lisp?

[A]

The book list?

[B]

The book Lisp?

[A]

The book Lisp.