Prime Time Crime

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Book Lisp – "Prime Time Crime"

Podcast: The Book Lisp with Jon Ryan & Sarah Colonna
Episode: Prime Time Crime
Date: December 8, 2025
Hosts: Jon Ryan & Sarah Colonna
Main Book Discussed: Christmas Presents by Lisa Unger

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the world of true crime, both as a cultural phenomenon and as depicted in Lisa Unger's thriller Christmas Presents, the monthly book club pick from Sarah's shelf. Jon and Sarah explore the popularity of true crime podcasts, the ethical gray areas of content creation in this space, and the ripple effects on real people. The conversation intertwines their own experiences with the book's themes, musings on small-town life, a humorous debate over Christmas tree decor, and a broader look at celebrity culture.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

True Crime Media & Its Ethics

• Rise of True Crime Podcasting

  • Sarah discusses how the book’s protagonist, Harley, is a famous true crime podcaster/author who returns to a small town to investigate a past crime (07:00).
  • Highlights ethical dilemmas, such as recording people without consent.
    • Sarah: “He would record people without telling them and then use it […] I didn’t even know you could do that.” (07:45)
  • Explores whether such behavior is actually legal, and the blurry ethics at play.

• Society’s Obsession with True Crime

  • Sarah and Jon discuss why people voraciously consume true crime: emotional remove, sensational stories, and the power of storytelling.
    • Sarah: “How come I can turn on a Dateline and […] hear these, like, awful stories […] but I can’t watch something fake that’s scary?” (09:59)

• Victims vs. Voyeurism

  • The podcast highlights how communities often forget that victims and their families have to keep living with the aftermath, while outsiders consume their trauma for entertainment.
    • Sarah: “People talk about it in front of you […] but not even really register or acknowledge that it’s her story.” (11:28)
  • Jon points out the double-edged sword of amateur sleuths, referencing both harms and victories (like the Golden State Killer case) from citizen involvement. (14:10)

• The Problem with “Conspiracy Chasing”

  • Both hosts reflect on how social media spreads wild theories, often jeopardizing innocent people’s lives:
    • Jon: “You hear these terrible stories about someone who’s totally innocent, but these people go down crazy rabbit holes and decide this person in the small town is guilty.” (14:10)
    • Sarah: “All of a sudden on TikTok, someone was blaming a teacher […] and this teacher had to sue…” (14:51)

Notable Quote:
Jon: “If you start to go down weird rabbit holes and conspiracy theories, you can turn the case on anything. And this is why there’s still millions of people that think OJ Simpson was innocent. Because—if you go now with, nowadays especially […] they hold your hand or guide you down that trail until they prove you’re right, when you’re completely wrong.” (16:49)

• Responsibility of True Crime Content Creators
  • The pair argue that podcasters have a responsibility not to promote conspiracies, to consider the victims, and to acknowledge their influence.
    • Sarah: “That’s really disregarding the victim because you may think you’re being a warrior of justice here, but what you’re really doing is hurting innocent people instead.” (16:27)

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The Social Media & Fame Angle

• Performative Activism

  • Stories from the book about characters faking involvement for social media resonance with Jon and Sarah, who share parallel stories from real life (27:06).
    • Jon: “There was a woman here in LA […] she jumped out of her car during the whole Black Lives Matter thing […] took a picture [with a hammer]… and then jumped back in her car and left.”
    • Sarah: “Don’t pretend to be involved in something important or helping people… when really it just turns out you took one quick photo and jumped back in your car.” (27:26)

• Charity ‘Photo Ops’

  • Jon recalls an NFL charity shoot where players did an hour of work, then posed for hours of staged photos to promote the cause (28:04).
    • “It just feels a little bit gross…[but] it is getting the word out.” (28:35)

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Small-Town Dynamics & Personal Histories

• Being ‘Frozen in Time’

  • The book’s protagonist struggles with always being seen as “the sheriff’s daughter” in her hometown, and the person associated with a tragedy (29:54).
    • Sarah: “People tend to just remember you for who you were when they first met you… Even though my dad’s retired, he’s had a stroke, I’m taking care of him, I have my own bookstore, but [still] I’m the sheriff’s daughter.”
    • Jon: “Everyone wanted a story to tie me back to them or the city. Even if it was something made up about me from when I was 17.” (31:23-31:45)

• Nostalgia vs. Stagnation

  • The dual-edged sword of small-town familiarity is discussed: the charm of everyone knowing your name vs. the frustration of old reputations lingering.
  • Both share anecdotes about small-town snooping and old embarrassments being rehashed endlessly.

Notable Quote:
Jon: “You embarrass yourself one night back in ’93, and they want to talk about it in 2024. You know what just happened in my life these last 31 years? Why do you even remember this?” (35:07)

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Christmas Vibes & Couples’ Banter

• Book's Cozy, Nostalgic Holiday Atmosphere

  • The pair riff comically on their own Christmas traditions and home décor, poking fun at Jon’s passion for themed trees and Sarah’s fondness for mismatched ornaments (36:15–39:00).
    • Jon: “I like to have all my trees a different theme. Our tree over here is all gold… That one’s 1800 ornaments!” (37:14)
    • Sarah: “She talks about her Christmas tree is decorated with ornaments all collected from stuff over the years… I think that’s nice.” (36:48)

• Jon’s Retired Life

  • Much laughter as Jon describes his “busy” schedule: “My day starts off with coffee, two hours of working out, three hours at the cigar bar…” (38:00)

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Celebrity Culture and Meeting Idols

• Who Would Starstruck Jon?

  • Sarah asks whether Jon would get tongue-tied meeting a famous author like Ellen Hildebrand.
    • Jon: “Yes, definitely Ellen Hildebrand… That’s my favorite author.” (45:45)
    • Sarah: “I got starstruck when I saw an actor from General Hospital!” (45:10)

• Actors Losing Roles to Celebrities/Cameos

  • Sarah bemoans the trend of actors missing out on work as roles go to celebrities or cameos:
    • “Somewhere, there’s an actress who just needed that gig to make her health insurance…” (41:59)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Social Media Contagion:
  Jon (on conspiracy theories): “Whatever you do, they’ll just keep, they’ll hold your hand or guide you down that trail until they prove that you’re right, when you’re completely wrong and you’re just a crazy fucking conspiracy theorist.” (17:17)

• On True Crime Culture:
  Sarah: “That’s really disregarding the victim because you may think you’re being a warrior of justice here, but what you’re really doing is hurting innocent people instead.” (16:27)

• On Small-Town Legacy:
  Jon: “Everyone wanted a story to tie me back to them… some of it was great, but most of it’s like, okay, I don’t need to hear a story about me when I was a jackass when I was 17. Now that I’m 44.” (31:45)

• On Christmas Decor:
  Jon: “Our tree over here is all gold theme… 1800 ornaments on that tree, by the way.” (37:14) Sarah: “She talks about her Christmas tree is decorated with ornaments all collected from stuff over the years… I think that’s nice.” (36:48)

• Funny Side Tangents:

  • Sarah’s story about being in a “promo” for Gene Simmons’ TV show but not fitting the “roller-skating girl” look (22:03).
  • Jon pretending not to recognize half his rumored “small town” stories (31:23-31:45).

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• True Crime’s Popularity & Ethics: 07:00–17:30
• Victims and Voyeurism: 11:20–13:12
• Conspiracy & Social Media Dangers: 14:10–17:30
• Performative Activism/Social Media: 27:06–28:52
• Small Town and Personal History: 29:54–35:14
• Christmas Tree Debate: 36:15–39:47
• Celebrity/Cameo Roles & Acting Frustrations: 40:09–43:58
• Meeting Authors / Fan Moments: 45:10–46:51

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Tone & Style

The episode maintains a conversational, irreverent, and slightly self-deprecating tone. Jon and Sarah banter over the quirks of small-town life, holiday rituals, and lampoon both themselves and the sometimes absurd nature of fame, social media, and the entertainment industry. They thoughtfully dissect serious topics but keep things accessible and fun, frequently shifting into comedic sidebars and sharing personal stories.

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For Listeners New & Old

Even if you haven’t read Christmas Presents or followed The Book Lisp before, you’ll get a rich discussion about the impact of true crime media, America’s ongoing love for holiday traditions, the politics of who gets to tell stories, and the enduring oddities of small-town life—plus a generous helping of Jon and Sarah’s trademark marital comedy.

Join their Facebook group, The Book Listeners, to connect, share where you’re listening from, and maybe help the hosts plan a future meetup.

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For more info on upcoming shows and extra content, check out Sarah’s tour dates or join Patreon for bonus episodes and short stories.

Transcript

[A]

Hi, I'm Sarah Colonna.

[B]

And I'm John Ryan.

[A]

And you're listening to the Book List. The Book List.

[B]

The Book Lisp.

[A]

Oh, that's right, you're listening to the Book Lisp. Hello and welcome to the Book Lisp with John Ryan and Sarah Colonna. Hi, John.

[B]

Hello.

[A]

What are you doing?

[B]

Just hanging out, you know, another busy day.

[A]

Another busy day doing what?

[B]

Well, I was at the cigar bar for a few hours and worked out before that and.

You know, living the life of a retired 44 year old man.

[A]

Did you do, do you do any decorating today?

[B]

I worked on the up upstairs tree for a little bit. Yeah.

[A]

How much more decorating do you have to do before? I mean we're getting, getting down to the wire. People are listening to this on Monday. Our party's in four days.

[B]

I know, I know, I know what our party is.

[A]

I'm not, no, I'm not saying that. I'm just like commiserating. I'm like, it's crazy. Like we're, you know, I'm not pushy. I'm not being pushy. I'm just saying it's crazy. Like someone Mary asked me, Mary Redinski, a lot of you guys also listen to Are you my podcast. She, she was like, are you ready for the party? And I go, yeah. And then I was like, no.

[B]

Well actually when do Marion Mark get the town?

[A]

They're coming on the. So guys, our party is on on the 13th. On the 12th. Friday. Next Friday, This Friday. If you're listening to this on Monday, that's why we're talking about it. And we just jumped in like we're having a conversation instead of talking to the people on our podcast. Hi guys.

[B]

We're talking to.

[A]

I know. And they know Mary and Mark most, a lot of them. Are you my podcasters too? And if you're not, that's my other podcast with my very good, very funn, funny friend Mary. And they're coming in from Philadelphia for the party and staying with us and then.

We'Re excited, we're excited about it all. There's so much going on. It's the holiday season.

[B]

Like. Yeah, I mean this party we have people coming from Dallas, Philadelphia, Seattle, Canada, Spokane or Texas. I see Dallas. Yeah. We have people coming from all over the country. So it's a, a big deal. 150 people. Okay. A lot of people. If you know where we live, you know, the day of the party, don't think you're gonna come crash the party. We have securities several Security. You're not getting in.

[A]

I feel like the list, the listeners would be really fun at a party, though, I gotta admit.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. We need to do some kind of book list meetup. I need to get on that, figure that out at some point because I, I mean, it's just hard because I know everyone's so spread out all over the place. So. Join the Book Listeners, our Facebook group. Follow the book Lisp on Instagram, maybe on the. When I post that this episode is up, a lot of you can write in the comments. So I post like a photo of the episode the day it comes out on Monday. So in the Book Listeners Facebook group, write in the comments where you listen from. Maybe we can determine where there's a lot of listeners and have a meetup. I don't know why. I just really want to. I've never wanted. Yeah, this is like, I'm like the, I'm like a fan of, of Harley's from Christmas Presents. The book we're reading right now, wanting, wanting to meet up with him in person. And that's our, that's our December book. Our Patreon short story. We have short stories on Patreon. We do them every month is the Kill Clause, also by Lisa Unger. It was suggested by one of our patrons. Listener patrons. Really good idea. Perf fitting for this month for the theme. And John, what is the January book?

[B]

Summer island by Kristen Hannah.

[A]

Kristen Hannah, Summer island is your January book list. Chick book list pick from John. You're really excited about a lot of comments. Excited about that one. There's a lot of people that just love her. A lot of some people have already read it, some haven't. People are rereading it. People are excited. I did finish this one last night. Christmas presents. I am.

That's what I was reading in bed. Now, if you guys are new here, we don't give you any spoilers on the book until the full discussion, which is week four. So we just talk about topics kind of pulled out of the book. Right. Before we get into it, I do want to remind you to come see me live December 17th in Snowmass, Colorado. One show at the Collective. December 31st, New Year's Eve. John and I are both going to be in Spokane at the Spokane Comedy Club. He will be there doing the meet and greets with me afterwards. Same with tacoma. January and second and third, Tacoma Comedy Club. February 6th. I'll be in Jefferson, Iowa. Mary Radzinski joins me for that Springfield Comedy Club in Missouri, February 12th through 14th Mary joins me for that. I'll be by myself in Chicago City Winery February 20th, followed by the St. Louis City Winery February 21st, followed by Emmitsburg and Clinton, Iowa, February 27th and 28th, also with Mary. Then I go on to Appleton in March and Arlington, Virginia in April. I have a lot of dates coming up, so just go to sarahcolona.com but get them. Go ahead and get those tickets. Go ahead and get them now. Don't wait. Don't make me. Don't make me sweat it.

[B]

Busy. A lot of. A lot of shows coming up.

[A]

I do have a lot of shows coming up. Really excited about New Year's Eve. We're going to have fun.

[B]

Yeah, that'll be fun. It's always fun. Going back to Washington.

[A]

Oh, so fun. And then January 2nd 3rd in Tacoma. Like, it's just going to be a blast. So lot of that.

So off of this book, there's one main theme that I.

[B]

Before that, we want to rewind everyone to listen or to tune into our Instagram. Liquor Advent Calendar.

[A]

Liquor Advent Calendar. Every Monday, Wednesday and Friday as this.

[B]

As this airs. It'll be the fourth one. We've all only shot the first one and we had over a million views.

[A]

I know, it really.

[B]

It really popped up. We've been doing this for five years. It's been very popular. But some reason it just really popped off. On Monday, we had over a million people view the Liquor Advent Calendar. It's been very popular.

[A]

Yeah, it got real popular. This out of nowhere. I don't know what it was, but I'm glad it's always been popular. Like, people insist that we do this every year. And for now we.

[B]

We the more comments on that than like anything we do.

[A]

Even in person. I'll see people and they're like, when are you guys starting that Advent calendar? I'm like, it's June, guys.

[B]

We literally. We literally get people all year round coming up to us and asking about it. It's really cool. It's so fun. Yeah. And I just said for some reason we did the first one in in real time. This was last two nights ago and it absolutely popped off. And literally over a million views between Sarah's and eyes Instagram.

[A]

Is that called going viral as the kids say?

[B]

I guess so.

[A]

Oh, look at you. Deep voice.

[B]

Yes. Oh, my. Oh, my.

[A]

Okay. It's just there's something that I want to get into about this right away about this book. That again, no spoilers, just the topic out of it. So the story is about a True crime that happened several years ago. And this guy Harley is a very popular true crime podcast as well as he's an author. And he goes back to this small town to do his investigative reporting for his podcast. And there's a little bit. It's kind of at the beginning, so I don't think it's a spoiler, but you get the idea that this guy has been. Or you get told that he's. There was a kind of a article about true crime podcasting and how they. Unethical. Some of it is. Right. How they record people. And.

He would record people without telling them and then use it or tell. Which I think. I didn't even know you could do that.

[B]

I didn't know you either.

[A]

I don't think you can. I think you have to. I don't know. I mean, I. I don't know. I guess if someone's. Yeah, I don't think you can. But. I mean, it's a book. But anyway, guys, I don't know legal stuff.

Okay. Well, I just think, like a main theme in this book is that. And it's. We've talked about this a little bit here and there overall, but just how true crime is now so popular. Right. And so.

And. And, you know, we've joked about how, like, I can fall asleep, you know, I'll go to sleep watching Dateline, but I can't watch something fake. That's scary. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And we were watching that show the Beast In Me, remember? It was a really good show. If you guys haven't watched it, it's crazy. It's on Netflix, I think.

[B]

Is it on Netflix or Hulu? I don't know.

[A]

I don't know. One of the. You'll just Google it. And Claire Danes and then I forget the guy's name, but he's so good.

[B]

Yeah. It's on Netflix. Sorry.

[A]

Okay. It's so good.

[B]

And Matthew Reese, Brittany, Britney Snows, apparently on everything right now.

[A]

I know. She's on everything right now. She's on the. The Murdoch murder. Murdoch murders. Or Murdoch.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't know how to say Murdoch.

[B]

Murdoch or Murdoch. Think they. They sometimes they pronounce it Murdoch, but that's on Hulu, too. And we've watched four or five episodes of that. And she is really blown up.

[A]

Yeah. And she's.

[B]

She's. She's been blown up for years, but.

[A]

I know. But I think, like, hunting wives put her over the edge. But all the. As far as, like, people see. Even though I'm sure this other stuff Was filmed before that came out. Doesn't matter. But she. She was really good in the Beast in me too. Like, perfect for that character. But we're watching that show and there's a very violent scene.

So FYI. And I. I mean, I could not like. And they don't even show. They just show the action. They don't show the person that's getting beat up, but they show the action of this. Of it. And. And I. I mean, I. That the sound that they give in movies and TV shows when someone's like punching someone in the face.

[B]

Ugh.

[A]

And it just. And this goes repeated. So, I mean, I won't get into it, but I just like. I literally was like, had my hands over my ears, closing my eyes. I'm so. I'm telling. I can't. I cannot watch this. But how come I can turn on a date line and. And I know they're not, you know, but. But hear these, like, awful stories or any of the documentaries and all this stuff, the way that true crime has sort of gripped people and. But I will say when I watch those.

When I see something, say if this story, in this one, two girls that are missing overall is a big part of the story and presumed dead, of course. But they. If I'm watching something like that, I do usually I get emotional. I feel, you know, I want justice for people. I feel sad. I feel. I go through emotions of it. It's. But I. But I can watch it. It's not like I have to look away usually. Sometimes. I guess they could probably have some. Some with pretty graphic footage, but not usually. Usually they kind of water it down for public consumption, I guess. But you get so involved in these stories, and then there's all these podcasts on true crime and whatnot. And as she points out a few times in this book, one of the victims who this book is about is that you get.

People talk about it in front of you. She'll have people come up because she lives in a small town. People talk about it to her in front of her in her bookstore.

And just. But. But not even really register or. Or acknowledge that it's her story, right? That. That part that it happened. That something happened to her in this overall story. So I'm just trying to. I'm talking around it without giving you guys the whole story, in case you haven't read it. But I. I just think what is that? Where what has happened? Has it just. Has it just gotten us so numb to certain things, listening to people like the sensationalism of it when people podcast, because some there's. There's some that do it very well. There's some that do it with sympathy and with wanting justice. I mean, I'll include Dateline in that and trying to write, but a lot of some podcasts are doing it sort of. I don't really listen to a lot of true crime podcasts, but I read about them and, and I know that some are very.

Much involved in like, the truth and trying to. And not going with conspiracy theories and doing this and that or just mixing up research or just trying to. But at the end of the day, they're. They're trying to get listeners off of it, right? Yeah. And I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that because sometimes you're trying to get listeners to spread the word, and also sometimes you're really good at it or you're informing the public about something they didn't know. There's all kinds of different versions of true crime podcasts and podcasters. But I just wonder, like, what's your overall feeling on the ethics of doing a podcast like that?

[B]

I think that there's a number of things. I think one thing, why, when you watch it, in my opinion, when you watch like a Hollywood version of these same crimes being told in a. A drama, you feel more because they Hollywood it up. You know what I mean? Whereas if you watch a dateline, you watch 60, not 60 Minutes, you know, 2020 or whatever it is, a documentary on Netflix, they say everything very matter of factly, like, this is what happened. This is what happened. Whereas in when we were watching the night, they show guy punching a guy in the head over and over until he's bleeding all over the place. They don't do that in these Dateline things, right? That to get that they do that on these shows to get an emotion out of you. Whereas on these Dateline shows, they say everything, like very. A matter of factly. And.

Yes, I think part of these documentaries, I think are really good because I think sometimes they really help and I think sometimes they really hurt situations.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, I think these people, like, you hear these terrible stories about someone who's like, completely innocent, but these people go on a podcast, they go down these crazy rabbit holes and they decide this person in the small town is guilty and they should just rot in hell. And they could. That person can barely even go in public anymore when they did nothing. Then there's other stories, like the Golden Gate Killer, right, with Patton Oswald's late wife. She helped solve that case as an amateur sleuth. So, you know, a lot of these police forces are understaffed and, you know, underpaid and they, they, they can't keep on going after these, these cold case files. And sometimes I think it helps that these podcasts are happening, and sometimes I think it really hurts.

[A]

Yeah, I guess it is just kind of a 5050 thing and it's, and, and there's some people that do it well and whether or not they're trying to do it for fame and clicks almost doesn't matter as much because they are still doing it well. But I think sometimes worse than the bigger problem is something you just said that reminded me is like social media. A lot of times like that, those awful in murders in, in Idaho, in Moscow, Idaho. And all of a sudden on tick tock, there's people just, there's someone was blaming a teacher and she, and like this teacher had a sewer and, and people just like, and they start believing it and then they start coming at you and then they find you and they find out where you live and they find your social media and they find you where you work. And like people get horrendously harassed over, yes. People spreading false information when it comes to these things. So I think, I do think true crime podcasts have a responsibility not to.

[B]

But when you get ones like that, the conspiracy theorists who are trying to be edgy, who are trying to get a hot take and trying to be. But what if it was the teacher and they try to build a whole story around it and there's people who aren't smart enough to think themselves. Wait, maybe, maybe you're right. Maybe you're right. Maybe you're right. And then all of a sudden they start digging into it and all of a sudden their algorithm from their TikTok or the algorithm from the Instagram start to lead them down that path. They want to go. And then all of a sudden the next thing you know, they teacher did it and they want them right, want them to pay for it. That's what happens right now in this day and age.

[A]

I know. And it's like to me, that's probably, and I, I mean it's. To me that's probably. And that's also taking.

That'S really disregarding the victim because you're, you may think you're being a warrior of justice here, but what you're really doing is, is, is hurting innocent people instead. And then to, and, and pulling focus and spreading all this around to make people take the eyes off of of where it should be. So I just think it's a, interesting.

[B]

Start to go down. If you start to go down weird rabbit holes and conspiracy theories, you can turn the case on anything. And this is why there's still millions of people that think OJ Simpson was, was innocent. Because you can turn. Yeah. If you go now with, nowadays especially not so much in 95, when OJ went down, in 96, you can go down a rabbit hole in any social media thing and whatever way you want to go, they lead you down that trail.

[A]

Yeah, that's true.

[B]

Try doing it. Whatever you do, they'll just keep, they'll hold your hand or guide you down that trail until they prove that you're right, when you're completely wrong and you're just a crazy fucking conspiracy theorist.

[A]

It's true. Well, and it's funny you bring up oj because off of that sort of her, her.

Feeling in the book that people, you become the part of the story and they forget the victim and they just become fascinated with the story.

How some of that becomes so.

Example is my mom, when she was visiting me in the late 90s, whatever it was mid, she, we went to Brentwood for something and she wanted to see OJ's house.

And I, and I don't know if she, I can't remember now if she met OJ's house or where it happened, they, either way, just dark. Right. You know, just sort of. But, and, but that's the thing. People want to go see these houses where things happen. I don't, I think I just drove her by one, some house and I was like, that's it. And then just hit the gas. Yeah, I didn't know.

[B]

It's like the Hollywood tours. Oh yeah. That Tom Cruise lives over that bush over there. I wouldn't look. Okay, next up, Brad Pitt lives across the street from here. Just look over there. That's where all those Hollywood tours are.

[A]

Oh my God. I went on one. I never tell you that. I think I did. I went on like, my dad took me on one when I was younger. Maps of the Stars. And you sit in this double decker open, open top bus and you go. And they, and they, and they just stop in front of, at one point they just stopped in front of a hedge, like this giant thing of hedges where you wouldn't be able to see who lived there if you tried. And they're like, that's where Brad Pitt lives. And I'm like, I think it's, I think there's like an empty park behind that with me.

[B]

My. My buddy lives in Beverly Hills on a pretty prominent street. He's not famous by any means, but he said he sat outside one time, just on a weekday. In one hour, something like 20 or 30 tour buses went by.

And I don't even know what the fuck they're looking literally like, oh, yeah, Ozzy Osborne used to live there. Okay. I mean, it's still just brick and bricks and wood. Well, I don't know. It's like you're gonna jump out and say a concert to you. It just like, who cares?

[A]

It's so weird because I think about how one time, like, I went to see Lucille Ball's house right where she lived for a long time. She was not. She wasn't living anymore. She was. But I. I love Lucille Ball, so it was cool to me to see just this house that she had lived in. And I don't know. I don't remember if it was a historical landmark or how whatever, but. Or someone just lied to me, but. But something like that. Oh, it to me is a. Is a thing. Or there's the Brady Bunch house. Everyone kind of knows that's the Studio City. And people drive by it just to see it because it was part of the show and different things. I get some of it. But the part where you drive by people's by. By homes and you say that someone lives there, that seems almost unsafe. Right? Should we be doing that still?

[B]

No, I don't think we should be. I think that's ridiculous. But I mean, this day and age, you can almost look up anyone and where they live, and it's kind of scary.

[A]

Yeah, I guess. And just. We don't need to add to it. I don't think you need to. Well, I mean, if you're one of those Bling Ring type people, you just hop on a Hollywood tour bus, you get the map of where everyone lives and go tell it. But I don't know. I don't know if they still actually are to do that or if they do, like, what they did with me. And just point to a. Point to a bush.

[B]

And point to a bush.

[A]

Take your 20 bucks.

[B]

Shila buff pissed him that bush after he got drunk at the bar.

[A]

Did I ever tell you when you said something about Ozzy Osbourne? My memory on this is so bad because it was when I first. When I first moved here. It was so long ago, but he remembered that A and E show.

I thought, what was the name of the show? I have to go.

[B]

I thought that was a Guy from Kiss. I thought that was Gene Simmons that had the. A show.

[A]

Oh, you're right. You're right. It was.

[B]

Had the MTV one.

[A]

Yeah, it was Gene Simmons. Was it Family Jewels?

[B]

Yeah, that sounds about right.

[A]

When was that on?

[B]

You know where his wife's from? Do you know where his wife's from?

[A]

No.

[B]

Saskatchewan.

[A]

Oh, really?

[B]

Saskatoon. Yeah.

[A]

I didn't know that.

Fascinating. Well, yeah, well, it was either.

Family Jewels or I think it. I think it was that or it might have been a show that was supposed to be. That was going to be his show before it was the Family Jewels, but it was. I basically was supposed to do, like, a promo for it. Went to his house. They cast.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Yeah, they cast me in some kind of promo. And. And then there was a lot of, like, hot girls, like, roller skating in the promo. And I think they looked at me and realized I didn't fit the mold of the hot girl roller skating. Especially with, well, a lot of reasons.

[B]

But you just couldn't roller skate.

[A]

I could roller skate, but I, you know, I mean, I know I'm a. I know I'm an attractive lady, but I didn't look like what they wanted me to look like. And especially, you know, know there was a phase in the. In the late 90s, early 2000s, where there was some hair situations for me that weren't good choices. So anyway, I don't remember exactly what happened, but somehow they just, like, put me on a lawn and made me background or something, sitting on a picnic blanket. But I wish I could find footage of that.

Anyway, that was a side topic.

Anything else you want to say about true crime and podcasting?

[B]

And.

I would like to talk to, like, some, like, officers and some people that are, like, investigating these murders and ask if, like, these people just get in the freaking way and cause a hassle or are they helping? Because I feel like most of them are probably just getting in the way.

[A]

You know, that's a really good. Because I have. I've seen some officers.

Press conferences. I can't. Of course, I can't think exactly what I'm talking about, but I know I've seen. I have seen some where they say tip lines open and we're getting. This is helping. Right. But I think anytime you have any kind of crime in a. Especially in a. Maybe a. A smaller town where everyone's.

You know, got their theories and this and that. So I'm just saying in, like, Los Angeles, sometimes you don't even hear about something. But when.

[B]

When they open up those lines you also get these people like, I'm a psychic and that girl is buried under this tree. If you're a psychic, just keep it to your fucking self. Because in the rest of the world we believe in science. We believe in things that actually lead us to the murderer. Not psychic.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Psychic isn't real. Okay? It's fun.

[A]

Sure it's fun.

[B]

How dare you, you and your friends go there on a Friday night and have some rose and some crazy lady tells you what's going to happen. But it's not real. And no one has ever in the history of science ever proven it's real. Ever. Not one iota people, not one iota of psychics has ever been proven real. None.

[A]

Zero. What a buzz kill, John. God. Maybe we got a couple listeners that are, that are into psychic.

[B]

I'm so glad.

[A]

Fun.

[B]

I, I, I came from a place where we believe in science.

[A]

All right, okay, okay.

[B]

If you want, if you're psychic, you want to call into a hotline, just unplug your phone before you do it.

Let the battery run out and then talk for hours.

[A]

Well, I think probably since the history of crime, people have called in with crazy tips and whatnot. But yes, I definitely think it's blown up to the point where sometimes you got, you got this guy fielding the latest tick tock theory on such and such murder and you're just going, guys, you're not. We want to listen to every single tip, but we just wish if you had a really out there, one that you just, I wish you had a family member that would just go, just don't bother the nice, the nice people down at the station tonight.

[B]

Every, Everyone needs a no person.

[A]

Yeah, everyone does need a no person. Everyone really does need a no person.

Well, I was thinking about.

Is another aspect of all this too where he talks about because he's getting gotten so famous, he has his Instagram blows up whatever. When he talks about he's going to this town, he's staying in the house where the murders happen, which is totally weird. But, and, but hey know I wouldn't be able to do it. But he's doing it for the research for the, for the pod, for the fans. And so he talks about how he's going to this, he's staying in this house and he's going to redo it and do all these, do some fix it up whatever while he's there. I don't know. But he's, he basically jokes about how he's, how there's all this damage to it and People have graffiti it because it's been abandoned, and he's taking some footage and he goes, but, you know, I mean, I'm going to act like I am helping, you know, redo things, but really I'm just going to hold a sledgehammer, let someone take a photo of it for Instagram, and then someone else is going to do all the work and. And then the likes and likes and whatnot roll in. And that just kind of made me laugh because that is so accurate for a lot of social media now. It's, we'll see something. And you go, oh, my God, this person. No, they didn't do it. It was a photo opportunity and they got the photo opportunity. And now you're gonna hit your likes and leave your comments and they're gonna be happy.

[B]

There was. There was a woman who was a broadcaster here in LA who jumped out of her car during the whole Black Life Matters thing when they're boarding up buildings. And she jumped out and grabbed the hammer from the guy, go, oh, just do this. And, like, took a picture. She's, like, working it, working to help the. And then she jumped back to her car and left. Do you remember that?

[A]

I do remember that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. It was during. There was protests that they were boarding up and some girl. Yeah, it was disgusting. I can't remember her name now, but I'm glad she got. So, you see, that's the thing. I don't give a. If this guy wants to pretend he took a sledgehammer to this house and really other workers are doing it. People probably put two and two together overall, but don't. Don't pretend to be involved in something important or helping people. And then really, it just turns out you took one quick photo and then jumped back in your car and ran. That was gross.

[B]

I remember. I remember, like, when I first was in the NFL, I remember doing something for the Green Bay Packers. And like, we did, we did. We went out there, we volunteered for a whole hour, but they made it look like we were doing way more than we were.

[A]

Oh, really?

[B]

It was. I think it was like Habitat for Humanity and a food bank type thing. Like, everyone grab a hammer and hammer a nail in. And they taking all these pictures, like, okay, now let's go inside. I'm like, what the. They're going to use a hundred pictures of us, like, we're building a. We can barely hammer a nail in. But we were doing stuff for the whole hour, like having no food, or they made it look like we were working there for, like, 10 hours when we were there for like 60 minutes.

[A]

Right. And listen, there's good and bad on that, right? There's. We've talked about this a little bit before.

[B]

It gets the word out, gets real talking. But sometimes at first I was like, it just feels a little bit gross. Like, well, but it is getting the word out. They are using a thousand pictures to help people get, you know, aware of this charity.

[A]

Right. So there's. Yeah, there's pluses and minuses.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Okay, moving on.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[A]

There's a lot about how this is a small town where this crime happened, and how she talks about how she, she was the sheriff's daughter. Right. And she feels that she basically is always the sheriff's daughter and now she's also just the person who this happened to. And she talks about how being in a small town and growing up in a small town and staying in a small town, people tend to just remember you for who you were when they first met you. Right. When you were little, when you and I just thought. Or when you were a kid or where you were at school. Like, she's like, I'm just the sheriff's daughter. Even though my dad's retired, he's had a stroke, I'm taking care of him. I have my own bookstore, but the story is I'm the sheriff's daughter. And then also, of course, the victim of this crime. So as, as two people who grew up in small towns. Mine smaller than yours.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Not to brag. Farmington, Arkansas, population under a thousand. When I went to, went to school there, now it's much bigger.

[B]

My hometown isn't that small. It's 180,000 people. But there's no, there's no, it's no suburbs. There's like a dot in the middle of the prairies. And it's like, I would say, like it's not a bad thing. I'm saying about 90 to 95% of people that are born there die there. So everyone knows everyone, even though it's a little bit bigger. So it feels much, much smaller than it is. You can't go anywhere, you can't throw a frickin stone without hitting someone, you know. So it feels like a big small town in that everyone has all known each other forever.

[A]

Exactly. And that's. Yeah, I should, should. Mine was an actual small town, whereas John feels like a small town. And it's the, it's the familiarity people have with you. Probably even more with. For John, of course, because he did go on to play in the NFL, and they're very proud of him. And so everyone's all up in his business. When he played. When you played back in Saskatchewan, remember, you couldn't even go out the next day to. To eat something without someone telling you how to punt.

[B]

I think also it's like, for me, like, growing up there and then leaving there and kind of, you know, getting a bit of notoriety and playing the NFL or when I go back there, everyone wanted a story if whether or not they knew me, they wanted a story to tie me back to them or tie me back to something. So he would always come to me and be like. I mean, people being like, oh, I work with your cousin's aunt. I'm like, I don't even know it. Well, I have no clue where they work.

[A]

Right.

[B]

They'd be like, remember the time you got like, hammered and Craven? I'm like, 99, 27 years ago. Yeah, probably I was 18. I'm sure I did. But everyone always wanted to have a story, and half of them were made up. I heard stories all the time about me. People like, oh, remember this? Remember that? That never happened. But you wanted a story to tie me back to you or tie me back to the city.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It used to frustrate me and annoy me. Some of it was great, some of it was great. But most of it's like, okay, I don't need to hear a story about me when I was a jackass when I was 17. Now that I'm 44 years old, you're.

[A]

Like, where's the story about me having a giant rod? Why isn't that story going around?

[B]

Yeah.

Long Dong John. Yeah, Long John.

[A]

I wonder. I wonder if your creepy old man laugh that. That I've grown to still not like. And other people have grown to love on this podcast. I wonder if it's going to be short. The end of this. Yeah, the end of the podcast. But I wonder if it's going to run anyway. No, I'm just kidding. It's funny. It makes me laugh. I. Well, yeah. So back to that sort of idea of people.

Kind of thinking of you as they knew you or. Yeah, like, oh, remember the time you got wasted when we were 18? Or. Yeah, okay. I mean, now we're 50. What. What are we talking about? Anything else? But to that point, it's also. She has a problem where she. She went by to. To visit Harley, the podcaster. The true crime podcaster. There's one poet in here.

And. And right away her dad knows about it because five People called him.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Saw her car at the house or this and that, and she's like, oh, this effing town. Right? Like, you can't go anywhere. Everyone knows exactly what you do all the time. And I do feel like I grew up in more of. Of that kind of small town. Mine was that small. Like, if you. If someone went by and saw, you know, Bucky's El Camino on my front. In my. In my front driveway, then they knew Bucky was over, because everyone knows that that was Bucky's El Camino, and then that's where I live. That's it. It's no getting around it. Okay?

And yeah, he had an El Camino, guys.

[B]

I know he did. His name is Bucky. Of course he did.

[A]

But I just think that that kind of. I love everything about the way I grew up, and I love growing up in a small town, so I'm not on it by any means. And I love that, you know, people still wave at each other when they drive by each other on the dirt road and they don't even know each other. And it confuses friends of mine that have never been there.

[B]

Whenever you walk by someone on the sidewalk, you always say, hi.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

In my. In my hometown. Always.

[A]

Yeah. It's polite. It's okay to be polite. We can be polite. There's nothing wrong with that. So. But to. I. So I love everything about it other than everyone thinking they know your business.

Or everyone thinking that you're still the person that you were. I mean, we all change so much.

[B]

And you'd hope so.

[A]

You'd hope so. I mean, there probably are some people that are stuck in. Mentally in high school or whatever. Of course there are. There are. In big cities, little cities. No, it doesn't matter. But it just find it so annoying when people want to bring up.

The only thing they can think of to bring up is, like, you being an. When you were not an. But like an embarrassment, you know, having you embarrassed yourself.

[B]

You embarrass yourself one night back in 93, and they want to talk about it in 20, 24, 5.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know. You know what just happened in my life in this last 31 years? Like, why the fact that you even remember this is bothering me.

[A]

You're like, by the way, you remember something. I can't. Okay.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because I think it was when I was back doing a show or something as some girl from high school. It was funny. It was like she was just bringing up an old story from some party we went to when we were in a. Seniors in high school or something. But I was just like, oh God, I want to talk about anything else but that even though it was sweet, you know. Anyway, all right. Random, random, small town random thing. Okay. So on the Christmas of it all, John.

Since this is called Christmas presents and this is your. This is John Ryan season, as you guys know, this is his month. There's a couple things we talked about, a couple on last week's podcast, but there's a couple things here. One is that.

She talks about how her, her Christmas tree is decorated with ornaments all collected from stuff over the years, like vacations. Different little. And I'm, and I'm going to say a word that's going to upset you. Mismatched ornaments that are just, you know, little trinkets that they picked up and now that they're, they're always going to be on their tree and they're always hanging on the tree and they make her nostalgic and I think that's nice.

You're not having it though. I mean, we've already discussed here.

[B]

I am having. I am having. I think that's great. I think to have a tree that tells a story like that, I think it's great. My mother has one with spray painted popsicle designs with my face in it from third grade. It's great. I love it. You and I have one upstairs in our room where has all the ornaments that people have given us. Ornaments from.

Our nephew from your side and all my niece and nephews from my side. They've given us some now. We've been together now 12 years. Some of them go back 11 or 12 years with the date on it. It's kind of cool. Now that we've been together for so long, you get to see all these. They come out once a year and we. It's great. But I don't like that as my main tree. I like to have all my trees a different, you know, a different theme. So our tree over here is all gold theme. Then we have this tree over here which is, you know, very Christmassy with the gold, silver, red and green. 1800 ornaments on that tree, by the way.

[A]

1800 ornaments on the tree. How many are on the stair landing?

[B]

17. 1700 on the railing.

It's been a labor of love this year. It's really taken a long time. I keep on thinking I'm about done and then, and then I run out of time. Every day I feel like every day is the list of things that I never quite get to. That's what my life has become. This is what happens when you retire at 40. You just have a list every day. You never quite get to that's. But when your day starts off with an hour of coffee, two hours of working out, three hours at the cigar bar, it really cuts into your day. Okay, when you get home at 3 o' clock and that's when your day starts and you kind of want to shut it down with the sun. The sun goes down at 4:30, it really leaves only about 90 minutes to get everything in okay. And that's what happened today. So I had 90 minutes, went to the grocery store, went to the liquor store, decorated the tree a little bit.

The day was over.

[A]

It's the life of a retired football baby.

[B]

When we get off of here, I probably have some time but then I gotta probably have some wine, watch some stories on TV and then it's gonna happen again tomorrow. We have a jam packed day again tomorrow.

I don't know where the time goes. I gotta wake up tomorrow, gotta be up and at him by about 10am Got to work out for a couple hours, maybe a 45 minute song in there and then we got to go to Brea for the Jeff Lewis show and then I got to, I got to drive to friggin Carlsbad. It just, it's day after day of.

[A]

This people day after day.

[B]

I don't know where I'm going to have the time to put another 20 to 30 hours into decorating before Friday.

[A]

Well guys, hopefully. Don't worry, he'll figure it out. That much I know.

[B]

I don't want anyone to be probably. I'm probably only going to sleep eight to nine hours a night because I'm so stressed about this.

I won't even be in the double digits. I'll probably be tired by the weekend.

We'll see. We'll see.

[A]

I want Taylor Swift to write a song about the life of a NFL player. She soon she'll be able to actually she did the Life of a Showgirl which I think is a jam by the way. I love that song and I think, I think she should write one here.

[B]

Here's my question. Travis Kelce, when he retires in this year or maybe next year, he wants to go into acting. Like how much longer does his name carry any weight? Because right now he's getting these acting jobs and it's not because he's a good actor and I'm not shitting on him, I think it's great. I'm not shitting him whatsoever. I Love. I love him. I love him. I'm a big fan of his. Big fan of Taylor's. I'm saying, like, how long can that go on for?

[A]

As long as people are watching. I guess that's. It's a. It's a question I have. Good for. Like you said, good for him. Whatever. Listen, sometimes I like his mom, Donna. Kelsey. I love. I love Mama Kelsey. I don't know her. I just think she's endearing. I think she's fun when I see her on interviews. I think she. She. She popped out two incredible athletes. Good honor. You know what I mean?

[B]

Two hall of Fame football players. That's incredible.

[A]

It's tough to do. And I, you know, and. Good honor. And she deserves the accolades. And I think it's great that clearly the family, you know, they all take care of each other. Right? It's like these kids didn't get famous and make a bunch of money and then go like, whatever. Did their parents. They're. They're grown men, but they're.

[B]

They've taken them along.

[A]

Yeah, they've taken them along. I love it. But I say, I see that she's like, I know, like a Hallmark movie the other day. And I get it. I get all the cameos and all that stuff. I understand. I do. I understand. I understand. People tune in for that stuff. I think it's fun. But then I'm like, God, there was just probably some. This is the. This is the actor in me that's going to bum everyone out for a second. I was. I said to John, I forget. It was like a Hallmark movie or something. I don't even know how big the role is. And I. Again, good, good honor. I hope she's having fun. I know she is. But I was like, somewhere there's. There's. There's an actress that just needed that gig to make her health insurance this year.

[B]

You know, it's probably an actress her exact age, 65 years old, just looking to get one job this year to cover her health bills. Your insurance.

[A]

Yeah, because you got to make a certain amount to get your health insurance in the union, and, and they don't give you much leeway. You don't make it that year, you're out and so or two years. I forget how long it goes, but the cycle goes. But I'm just saying, I know people that would, Would, would bet, you know, basically call up their casting director friends for commercials and be like, can you, you know, have me in for, like, anything this month? Like, any job that you think that they'll. I'll even be kind of right for. Because I got to get my health insurance. And so I just. That's the. That's the brain of mine that snapped on when I saw that natural. I know there's no. There's no happy Medium because it is television. And people do tune in for these big names. I mean, people got. People were tuning into the NFL just to see. Get a glimpse of Taylor Swift. Right. Her fans. And then. Yeah, they see Travis Kelsey as a cameo and something they're going to. Oh, all right, maybe I'll watch. That's kind of funny. I. I think for the most part, a lot of those movies, the ones like I think he's been in, usually have a bunch of other people in them.

[B]

Yeah, the. The new Happy Gilmore, where they had something like 58 different cameos. Like, literally, they had like every. Every minute was a cameo by a different somebody.

[A]

Yeah. And so maybe Hallmark's going, listen, we'll get the. Everyone's favorite mom right now in here, and we'll get some more eyeballs on this movie. I get it. But I wish there was a Happy Medium of.

It's just so hard for people. Actors to get work right now because of the way things are shot and where they're shot and just like, it's. Don't even get me started. But I'm one of them. And I. And I just wish. Sometimes I wish there were, I don't know, some rules about it, but then there really can't be. I don't know. What would the rule be? There is no rule. Anyway. Why am I going off on this tangent?

[B]

I don't know. I liked it, though. I enjoyed it.

[A]

Thank you. I have one more thing to ask you before we leave.

[B]

Yes?

[A]

When Harley Granger walks into her. Is it Granger? I forget. When Harley walks into her bookstore. We talked about this already, how she gets nervous and, you know, didn't put the face to the name. Face to the name at first, whatever, until she sees his credit card. But.

I think. I mean, I know the answer. It's Ellen, right? Hildebrandt would be the person that probably got your tongue tied if you ever. If you ever met her.

[B]

I don't. Okay. What was your question?

[A]

You've met a lot of big celebrities doing what you do. You've met a lot. They come on the sidelines or they, you know, they come to practice. You incredibly huge people. I got it. You've been to the White House. You know, you met Obama. You've Met.

[B]

Yes, sir.

[A]

Snoop Dogg. You've met Macklemore.

[B]

Softball with them.

[A]

Yeah, played softball. Macklemore. And I've met a lot of people too. Working on Chelsea lately also just doing what I do. I've met a ton of people. But I got, you know, I got starstruck when I saw an actor from General Hospital. I just went dysfunctional.

[B]

And.

[A]

But I didn't give a. I'd seen Kevin Spate. Well, that's not a good example anymore. That was a long time ago. But I, I saw, I've seen these people. Restaurants when I was working before I was in the business myself and just trying to be. And then, you know, I see Sunny from General Hospital and I lost. I was so nervous. But I'm just saying for keeping it to authors, if you. Is there an author that you think you would just. Just be a little intimidated or just starry eyed to meet? And is it Ellen Hildebrandt?

[B]

Yes, definitely Ellen Hildebrand. I mean, that's my favorite author. I don't think. I can't really even like think of anyone outside of that that I don't think I'd recognize any other act or any other author I'm trying to think of. Can you think of someone off the top of your head that you know exactly what an author looks like?

[A]

No. We kind of talked about this last week.

Yeah. That sometimes they go unnoticed because you don't. We're, you know, we're reading Kindles and stuff. Stuff. And not always seeing their book covers.

[B]

And I was, I was convinced the other day at Tipsy Cal. Colleen Hoover was there.

[A]

Oh, really?

[B]

Yeah. When they were having that private party in there.

[A]

Why?

[B]

I, I just saw a woman that looked like her and then I, I looked there for a little bit. Then I got bored of trying to figure it out, so I stopped.

[A]

Oh, well, it could have been. I think she, I think she's a Los Angeles lady. I, I could be wrong. And also you can just be at other. You could just be in Los Angeles even if you're not a Los Angeles person. So. All right, well, I think you'd fangirl over Ellen Hildebrand and I'm going to leave it at that.

[B]

Yeah, I'd like to meet her. Like to go to one of her meet and greets.

[A]

Ellen, if you're listening.

[B]

Oh, she's tweeted at me before, babe.

[A]

I know. And you got pretty excited.

Okay, well, this was fun. Random. Like it. Love it. Thank you, guys. I know we have a lot of new listeners lately and we appreciate you and we appreciate our old school listeners. We appreciate our new school listeners. We've only been. We didn't do it for a year. Only for a year. I just figured out. Right. Didn't we start last year? I think. I think we're about to hit a.

[B]

Year or maybe already over a year.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

We're around a year.

[A]

Thanks for being there. Join us on Patreon if you can. We do extra content there, including the short stories. We have a really silly one for the fifth. This. Oh no, that came out. It would have come out already by the time you listen to this. Yeah. On our on Friday we had a really fun, silly video podcast from our kitchen. We do a video version there too. So join us if you can. Join the book listeners. Don't forget to comment where you listen from when I post the photo of this podcast in the Facebook listeners group. Bye like and follow.

The Book List the Book Lisp. The Book List the Book Lisp. The Book Lisp.