Relationships, Reruns & Regrets

Summary

**Podcast Summary: "Relationships, Reruns & Regrets"
Episode: Relationships, Reruns & Regrets
Release Date: March 17, 2025
Hosts: Jon Ryan & Sarah Colonna

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Introduction

In the March 17, 2025 episode of The Book Lisp, hosts Jon Ryan and Sarah Colonna delve deep into the intricate dynamics of relationships as depicted in the book Alice Forgot. Alongside, they engage in a lively discussion about the controversial endings of various beloved TV shows. This episode, aptly titled "Relationships, Reruns & Regrets," offers listeners a blend of heartfelt insights and humorous banter.

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Exploring Relationships and the Book Alice Forgot

The Evolution of Relationships

The core of this episode revolves around how relationships—be it romantic, familial, or friendships—evolve over time. Drawing parallels from Alice Forgot, Jon and Sarah discuss the profound impact a decade can have on personal connections.

• Jon Ryan ([05:25]): "This book is about relationships, right? And how they evolve... Friendships, relationships with your family, with maybe a romantic partner. How they change, like in the book."

• Sarah Colonna ([06:09]): "In that 10 years to me, was sort of jarring. It's almost like a lot can go wrong in 10 years... Feeling that you don't realize or don't think about."

They highlight how life changes—such as moving away, career shifts, or personal growth—can strain or strengthen bonds. Sarah shares personal anecdotes about friendships formed in the hospitality industry, emphasizing how shared experiences can both solidify and dissolve connections over time.

• Sarah Colonna ([08:06]): "Some of them stick and some of them, they dissolve. They don't do it on purpose."

Jon reflects on his time in professional football, noting how transient relationships can be in high-turnover environments but cherishes the enduring friendships formed over a decade.

• John Ryan ([10:11]): "I played with over a thousand players... some are for a week, some are for two or three years... But all my closest relationships in football, those are guys I had like a 10-year relationship with."

Familial Bonds and Distance

The discussion also touches upon familial relationships and how physical distance can affect emotional closeness. Sarah recounts her relationship with her father, illustrating how life transitions can distance or bring family members closer.

• Sarah Colonna ([16:51]): "I'm really glad I did because I lost him last year very unexpectedly."

Jon adds a philosophical angle on how our relationships with parents evolve as we age, often reflecting on the limited time and memories shared.

• John Ryan ([12:46]): "By the time you finish high school, you have already spent 92% of the time you're going to spend your entire life with your parents."

Personal Growth and Changing Priorities

Both hosts emphasize that personal growth leads to shifting priorities, which can either mend or break relationships. They discuss how shared life experiences and facing real-life challenges can deepen connections.

• John Ryan ([23:17]): "As you get older, you talk about more real things... like, your dad died, your friend's dad died... It makes people closer."

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TV Show Endings: A Double-Edged Sword

Transitioning from personal relationships, Jon and Sarah delve into the often-contentious topic of TV show finales. They debate why many series endings leave audiences divided, contrasting them with the generally more accepted movie conclusions.

Iconic Endings and Listener Reactions

• Friends: Both hosts reminisce about the finale of Friends, with Sarah appreciating the closure it provided for the characters.

  • Sarah Colonna ([28:59]): "I thought they ended it perfectly. They built it up perfectly and closed everyone's chapter."

• The Sopranos: They discuss the infamous, ambiguous ending of The Sopranos, highlighting its polarizing reception.

  • John Ryan ([29:07]): "People are still mad about it."

• Seinfeld: The conversation shifts to Seinfeld, noting how the departure of Steve Carell's character changed the show's dynamic.

  • Sarah Colonna ([39:31]): "Imagine how confused Alice would have been if she woke up and Steve Carell wasn't on the Office anymore?"

The Debate on Closure vs. Open-Endedness

Jon and Sarah explore the merits and drawbacks of providing closure in series finales. While Sarah appreciates definitive endings in shows like Friends, Jon expresses frustration with ambiguous conclusions that leave viewers yearning for more.

• Sarah Colonna ([33:02]): "I liked it because there wasn't anything I need closure on."

• John Ryan ([32:18]): "I don't like leaving it open-ended. I watched an entire series and I want to know that Ross and Rachel are getting together."

Highlighting Recent Favorites

The hosts commend the ending of Breaking Bad as fitting and satisfying, contrasting it with the often disappointing conclusions of other series.

• John Ryan ([38:01]): "I thought it ended the only way it could. It was a perfect ending."

They also touch upon other contemporary shows like Better Call Saul, The Office, and Ted Lasso, sharing personal preferences and lamenting prematurely ended series.

• Sarah Colonna ([41:36]): "If I got hit on the hat and woke up and he was not on my television anymore, I'd be real pissed off and confused."

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Closing Thoughts

As the episode wraps up, Jon and Sarah reflect on the importance of cherishing relationships and the bittersweet nature of endings—both in personal lives and beloved TV shows. They invite listeners to engage with their content through Patreon and social media, ensuring a continued community of book and pop culture enthusiasts.

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Notable Quotes

• John Ryan ([05:25]): "This book is about relationships, right? And how they evolve... Friendships, relationships with your family, with maybe a romantic partner. How they change, like in the book."

• Sarah Colonna ([06:09]): "In that 10 years to me, was sort of jarring. It's almost like a lot can go wrong in 10 years... Feeling that you don't realize or don't think about."

• John Ryan ([12:46]): "By the time you finish high school, you have already spent 92% of the time you're going to spend your entire life with your parents."

• Sarah Colonna ([28:59]): "I thought they ended it perfectly. They built it up perfectly and closed everyone's chapter."

• John Ryan ([29:07]): "People are still mad about it."

• John Ryan ([38:01]): "I thought it ended the only way it could. It was a perfect ending."

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Conclusion

"Relationships, Reruns & Regrets" offers a thoughtful examination of the fluid nature of human connections and the challenges of providing satisfying conclusions in long-running narratives. Jon Ryan and Sarah Colonna blend personal experiences with literary and pop culture analyses, delivering an episode that resonates with listeners navigating their own evolving relationships and media preferences.

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Next Episode: The hosts tease their upcoming full review of Then She Was Gone by Lisa Jewell, promising more engaging discussions and insights.

Transcript

[Sarah Colonna]

Hi, I'm Sarah Colonna.

[John Ryan]

And I'm John Ryan.

[Sarah Colonna]

And you're listening to the Book List. The Book List.

[John Ryan]

The Book Lisp.

[Sarah Colonna]

Oh, that's right. You're listening to the Book Lisp. Hello and welcome to the Book Lisp with John Ryan and Sarah Colonna. Hi, John.

[John Ryan]

Hello. How are you?

[Sarah Colonna]

I'm good. How are you?

[John Ryan]

I'm good.

[Sarah Colonna]

I. I feel like for some reason, if. If you guys are watching the video of this, I just. I feel like my head looks really big. I think it's because I have my hair tied up in a weird knot. Because we're having a. We're having a situation today with my hair because of the rain, and I'm also a little shiny. Just thought you'd. Just thought. Those of you that are just listening would like to know what visual you're missing out on. A big, shiny face.

[John Ryan]

Perfect. I can see it. It's not that shiny.

[Sarah Colonna]

It's a.

[John Ryan]

Isn't that big?

[Sarah Colonna]

I don't know what's happening. Things are falling apart over here. But I guess shiny's better than just dried out, so. Hi, guys. Hi. List spinners. Yeah, you can watch the video of the podcast on Patreon, and then we do three bonus episodes a month on Patreon, too. And all of that is for $5. And if you don't want to watch it, you can just still listen to it and just get the bonus content. So all of that is on Patreon. We do bonus content. The 5th, the 15th, and the 25th. And on the 15th. It's always a short story. We always let you know what it is. This month it was Where There's Smoke by Jody Pico. Pico.

[John Ryan]

Pico.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah. We. One of our listeners told us. And then I listened to it, and I said it right when I. When we did the short story, which just came out. If you're listening to this in real time on the 17th when this episode comes out, then. A short story was two days ago Saturday, and it was a really fun one. Yeah, that's what we're up to. Join the Facebook group, the listeners. John and I are recording right now before we head to Washington for the weekend for shows which, if you are listening, you missed them. You missed the shows. Unless you were there and then you didn't miss them.

[John Ryan]

No, that's a good point.

[Sarah Colonna]

We're gonna.

[John Ryan]

We're gonna be. We're gonna be all over the place.

[Sarah Colonna]

I know. Well, I'm excited for this weekend, even though it's. I'm talking in the past when you guys. By the time you guys hear this. But we love going to Washington for obvious reasons. And then. So we're going to Everett, and then we're going to Enumclaw, and then Sunday we're staying and we're gonna go to the Seattle Kraken game.

[John Ryan]

Yeah. I think. I feel like we're gonna let people down on this trip. I know this has already happened, as she said, but I think we're gonna let people down because whenever we go to Washington, we get like 15 people saying, you gotta go to this bar. You gotta go to my bar. You gotta go to my restaurant. Blah, blah, blah. And we love it, but we just can't make all of them.

[Sarah Colonna]

I know. Well, because there's. Because I. I really wanted to check out a couple fun places in Enum class. So we decided because it's. It's. They're supposed to have just some solid fun bars. And Everett we already know does. Which. And we'll be going, but we don't have a lot of time. Like, we can't. We're going, but we can go after the show Saturday night and check out a couple of them. We will have done that. By the time you guys listen to this.

[John Ryan]

We will already have been. We will already have kicked out of Edom Claw bars. By the time you listen to this. We'll be. We'll be back.

[Sarah Colonna]

I feel like I'm guessing take a lot. Yeah.

[John Ryan]

I was a lot kicked out of Enum Club Bar.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah. Based on what I've heard about Enum Claw, I'm pretty sure we're going to be just fine.

[John Ryan]

Yeah.

[Sarah Colonna]

Okay. Don't you.

[John Ryan]

I've actually never been to Enum Claw, even though I spent 10 years in Seattle. Never went to Enum Claw.

[Sarah Colonna]

Well, see, I'm opening doors for you by. By doing these shows. And then we're going to Montana April 3rd and 4th, Missoula, April 3rd, Bozeman, April 4th. And you can get other tickets to that@Sarah Colonna.com. when I say we, it's because John's coming with me to both of these places because they're fun, and he'll do the meet and greets after and stuff. So. Yeah. Welcome to week three. Week three of your book list this month. I know we're. I know we always get so excited to do the full book review because we don't talk to each other about the books and our thoughts so that we can just. Like the short story that we did this past weekend for Patreon it was. I had this question about the end, and then John had a whole theory and we hadn't talked about it, so I got to learn it during the podcast and. And I find that fun. Those short stories are always pretty short, by the way, so it's not a huge assignment. And then don't forget that we are reading. Then she was gone by Lisa Jewell for April. That's my pick. Solid one.

[John Ryan]

It is a good one, too.

[Sarah Colonna]

So we are in week three of reading what Alice forgot again. New here, if you are. We don't talk about the book in detail until the fourth week so that everyone knows exactly when the spoilers and the stuff is coming, so that if they're reading along ahead behind whatever. You got it. So what we do is we just have fun conversations based off of subjects in the book without giving spoilers. And so John has some stuff planned today because I didn't do any work to help plan this one.

[John Ryan]

Well, so much. This book is about relationships, right?

[Sarah Colonna]

Yes.

[John Ryan]

And how they evolve. So I just want to talk about how. And not just not just romantic relationships, just this relationships in general. Friendships. Relationship with your family, your parents, with. With maybe a romantic partner. How they change, like, with your age. Like they did in the book.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yes. Because this book, it. I, I know the 10 years is a long time. And that's not a spoiler in this book that she loses 10 years. It pretty much is the first couple pages. You figure that out or from the summary too. But 10 years is a long time. But to the point of what they started at and where they ended up.

[John Ryan]

Yeah.

[Sarah Colonna]

In that 10 years to me, was. Was sort of jarring. It's. It's almost that, oh, my God, a lot can go wrong in 10 years. Feeling that you don't realize or don't think about. And then, but then you do think about it and you think about friends or people that you know that either divorced or fell apart. I don't know. The pandemic, I think, changed some people's relationships that you didn't see coming. And, and sometimes in a, in a shorter period of time. But.

[John Ryan]

But I think, like, not only, like, not only like that 10. I was just thinking, like, over the course of your life, how much like, like when you're, like when you're a kid, when you're in elementary school and you're in high school, you are around your friends like 40 hours a week. I think in high school, we, like, we go to school together all day, then we go to, like, football practice. Or lacrosse practice, whatever. And then we like, hang out at night, and then we'd hang out on the weekends. And I remember just like how that evolved from when you're in. Or when you're in high school to, like, then you're in college. You see them, like, you still see them quite a bit, but not as much. And then, you know, then you move away. And now it's like my buddy Logan, who. We used to be together 40 hours a week. We're still just good friends, but now we see each other like once every three or four months. And that's just how things evolve as you get older. You don't see your friends as much as you did.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah, and. And which, I mean, we discussed this a little bit last week, but with moving or what we, you and I, do for a living, or what anyone does for a living, that involves sort of social. I mean, gosh, if it's. If you ever worked at a restaurant or bar, you know how much you. You make these really good friends during the time that you're there. And some of. Some of them stick and some of them, they dissolve. They don't do it. It's not on purpose. But I think of all the. All the people that I. I knew from working in bars and restaurants my first many years in Los Angeles, I.

[John Ryan]

Only worked in like a bar for a little bit, but I remember having like, friends that start to work in bars, and it's almost like you lost them as a friend. They're like going to the other side. Like the whole, like, bar industry. It's. They're in like their own world. They all become friends. They all hang out together. They start work at 8 at night. They work until 3 or 4 in the morning. Then they will get breakfast and they sleep all day when we normally would hang out. And they just do it over and over again. It's like a different rotation of life.

[Sarah Colonna]

No, it is. And it's like. Because I think my friend Chris Franjola, who a lot of you that listen know, he and I have been friends since my early 20s because we started working at a restaurant together and we were just became such good friends that it didn't dissolve. Like we were integrated in each other's lives. So even when I went on and worked at a different bar and restaurant, I still saw Chris all the time. And then. And then he and I ended up working at the same talk show together. Like, we are lifelong friends, friends, period. But there was plenty of people that I worked with that I think about just Now, I mean, I didn't even think about this until you brought it up. But when I was working at this bar, Formosa, it was, I mean some of the people that I worked there with, I was, we were in touch all the time. We went out on, on our nights off together, we hung out. You know, you bond because you're seeing each other on a regular basis. And then when I stopped working there, those kind of. It's not like we stopped liking each other. I mean, we still all, you know, follow each other on social media, message here and there. But. But a few of the people that I think I spent a lot of time with, I just sort of lost touch with when I lost. Yeah, I mean obviously your, your, your life changes. I mean I'm not. When you're, when you start doing something different too. Some people move away. I was, I moved to a full time writing job which changes my schedule for going out with them and for it. Right. All that kind of stuff like you said. But it is interesting to think about. Like, wait, I hung out with that person all the time and then all of a sudden I didn't. And there was no reason. Like falling out for was different for me too.

[John Ryan]

Like playing pro football, you're friends with all those guys, but people don't realize those positions turn over like sometimes weekly. You know, the people I was like, oh, you got, you still keep in touch. A lot of the guys I'm like, not really, you know, still guys that I keep in touch with on like. But they don't realize that I played with like over a thousand players, you know what I mean? And some of them are for a week, some of them are for two or three years, most of them are for a year, you know what I mean? So all my, all my closest relationships in football with like, like I still talk to Mo Kelly who was like player, player development type guy there. Mack who is the cook in the kitchen. Donald Rich, who was a trainer. Mondre G, who's a strength trainer. Like all those guys that were there for my whole 10 years kind of behind the scenes that people didn't even know were on the team necessarily from the outside. Those are guys that I had like a 10 year relationship with. The ones that I still do keep in touch with and talk to.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah, I mean they all come to our Christmas party every year. We see them every time. We will, we'll see a lot of them this week. This. Well, in the past we will have seen a lot of them. This.

[John Ryan]

Rod, Rod Mar. He was a Team photographer for all those years. It's like all those guys we still. I really keep in touch with.

[Sarah Colonna]

He also was our wedding photographer. He did us solid because he's such a good photographer. We asked him to do that, and we wanted him at the wedding, but also wanted him to take our photos. So we were like, you're a guest, but also, can you do this? Can we hire.

[John Ryan]

You're a guest, but we'll pay for your hotel room and your flight.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah, yeah. But that is interesting. I mean, you know, in this book, because it isn't just her marriage that. That has changed so much. It's her relationship with her sister. It's her relationship with her friends. She finds herself going, well, who's this, like, at the. In the morning of the spin class, she's like, who's this person that's asking me how I'm doing? I kind of barely know this person, and she's acting like she's my best friend, and it turns out she is someone she sees all the time. And when she was 29, she was really close to some people. And then when she's 39, she's. And doesn't. And has lost 10 years, she finds herself going, how. How would. How is it that my sister and I aren't as close as I thought as we were then? Like, what could have possibly happened?

[John Ryan]

Right. Well, that's like. It's so interesting because, like, also, like, your relationship with your family changes. They say that by the time you're 18 years old, by the time you finish high school, you have already spent 92% of the time you're going to spend your entire life with your parents.

[Sarah Colonna]

Oh, really?

[John Ryan]

Isn't that crazy? And I mean, when I look at it, I'm like, well, my dad died when I was 25, so it was definitely probably more than 92%. Like, I see now, like, my mom and I live, whatever it is, 1500 miles away. I see her two or three times a year. So you kind of look at it. You're like, yeah, like, I used to see her every single day for 18 years, and now it's like a week or two a year.

[Sarah Colonna]

Right? That's true. And that's same here. I mean, I was fortunate when I. When I kind of had the reverse with my father because, yeah, my parents divorced when I was so young, and I lived with my mom, and although I visited him every summer for summer break and. And then. And. But that. Then when I got into college, that a couple years, I didn't even Come out for the summer because I was going to summer classes because I wanted. Was in a real hurry to graduate and get the. Out of college. I'll tell you guys. Not sure why, but I graduated when I was 21 because I was like, I mean it was four years. It's not a lot of people graduate in four years.

[John Ryan]

No, but you like, we both have late birthdays and you started early and I started late. So you went to, you went to college at 17, right?

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah, yeah, I started 17. So that's. And so I was 21 when I got out and I, I was just. So I lost some visits with my dad that some those summers or I was doing plays I was doing. So that all changes too, to your point. And then, but for me, then I moved out to California and my. That's where my dad was living. So then I moved in with him and my stepmom, my poor stepmom, God bless her, put up with having just a 21 year old just fucking. She had just. My, she and my dad had just gotten married that May and I moved in with them in July.

[John Ryan]

I mean she, she has, she has good stories about it.

[Sarah Colonna]

She does, yeah. She was a very good sport though, to, to be like. And she and I are very close still and always will be. But I think now I know her so well now that now it makes sense to me why she was fine with it. Right. I mean, talk about a big change for her in, in, in a certain amount of years. She met my dad, met me, and then thought she was going to. You know, when you get married at the age they were at when they got married and it wasn't any either of their first marriages, pretty sure you don't expect any kids to be living with you anymore when they're, when they're all grown and, and that changed for her. It was temporary. It was like eight months and then I had it and then I got a place in Hollywood, but, well, rented. But point is, now that I know her well and my relationship with her has changed over so much time, I know what a family person she is, what a, what a warrior for like her children. She always was. And so it makes more sense to me now that she was so fine with it.

[John Ryan]

Yeah. And you guys have a good relationship, which is good.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah.

[John Ryan]

And I guess it's kind of like you said the opposite. You spend a lot more time. You spend a lot more time with your dad later on, and then you're spending a lot more time with your stepmom than Obviously, because you weren't chosen in your life before you're 21.

[Sarah Colonna]

Right. But, yeah, I definitely started spending more time with my dad, and then we. And then I wasn't going down there as much when he was living in Orange County. I'll go back and forth for a while, and then, you know, like you said, you get a little older or you don't. Your things change, your jobs change, life change. On the weekends. Maybe I didn't want to go down there because I was doing this or that. And then over the pat, which I'm really grateful for over the past, probably, I don't know, 15 years or so, I was. I was spending a lot of time with both of them and going to visit him in Palm Desert more and being so more aware of that. And I'm really glad I did because I lost him last year very unexpectedly. So. Yeah, I don't know why I'm bringing that up, but.

[John Ryan]

Well, it all fits in with the parent relationship thing.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah. And also that my. To your point, my mom and my stepdad, they come out to see us every year, which is fantastic. And we usually make it back to Arkansas once a year, but that's so much less than all the time I spent with them.

[John Ryan]

Right.

[Sarah Colonna]

But my relationship with my mom has. It's always been very good, but it's definitely changed in a. Like, we're also, you know, we just talk to each other about whatever. I mean, I call her and she talks, I should say.

[John Ryan]

But the lady can talk.

[Sarah Colonna]

She can. She loves to talk. But we. We do a lot of texting. We text probably every day. Some usually about cats, something. Because she likes that she volunteers at an animal shelter, which should surprise nobody, if you know me at all. And. But yeah, it is funny, you kind of wonder sometimes if you. You can't physically spend more time with somebody that you live far away from. But you can. You can make more effort, I guess, to see them or.

[John Ryan]

What's really good for me in the last, I guess, 20 years is text messaging.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah.

[John Ryan]

Because there's no way I'm going to pick up the phone and call Logan. No, pick up the phone and call Terry. But I'll text them all the time. I text Logan almost every day, Terry, weekly, you know, so text message is a good thing for me. Or I would just be a total recluse.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah.

[John Ryan]

Just never, never. I say never leave the Valley, but I never do leave the Valley of never leave the house.

[Sarah Colonna]

You and I would never talk to each other if we didn't have text message.

[John Ryan]

We probably would have never got together in the first place.

[Sarah Colonna]

No, it's also makes no all.

[John Ryan]

Also makes me think about how much different because now, like, my grandma's 97, so obviously she's, you know, getting close. And I just think of, like, how much different the relationship becomes with, like, with how it'll be different with my mom because now she's. She's only 70. She's young, but in like 15 years, you know, things change. And it made me think. Last time I went and visited my grandma, this one made me think of is because she's just in like a. A senior living care home now. But when you're, like, when you're first born, your world is like so small. And then you get like five or six years old and you go like the elementary school, your world gets a little bit bigger. They go to high school, it gets a little bigger than your college, bigger than, like you're like a professional. You have like a huge world. And as you get older, it starts, like, close off again and get smaller and smaller until you're all the way back to where you like, someone's like Benjamin Buttons. But I was like, all the way back to where you started. Like, my grandma never leaves one room now, you know, Right Back to where she. Now her world is so small again. Just crazy how it goes like that. Like such an arc.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah, it is. And of course, for your grandma. So when you live to be 97, a lot of times you've lost those. All your friends and you lost. Right.

[John Ryan]

I mean, she lost. She lost a son 20 years ago. She lost her husband 25 years ago. Like, it's. Yeah, you watch a lot of people die when you're 27. My mom said she was. She was visiting my grandma the other day. 97. What did I say?

[Sarah Colonna]

You said 27.

[John Ryan]

No, definitely not 27. Visiting my grandma in her care home the other day. She's 97, and she said, there's this old lady that's always there. She never says anything, just sits in her chair, never talks. My mom said to my grandma, she's like, oh, grandma, like, three more years, you'll be a hundred. This woman goes, she ain't gonna make it. I'm like, I've never heard the woman talk. I'll say, if you ain't gonna make it.

[Sarah Colonna]

That's what, that's what got her out of her comatose state.

[John Ryan]

Yeah.

[Sarah Colonna]

She was like, I gotta chime on. I gotta chime in on this one, honey.

[John Ryan]

I gotta make sure this family doesn't have any false hope of her getting to 100.

[Sarah Colonna]

I love how every single person in your. On both your, your nana and your grandma's sides seems to be like both them and the people in their lives. Just. They're just real talk people. There's real talk people, no problem. Yeah, like you're. You guys have heard stories about John Stanna, so.

[John Ryan]

Oh, there's so many good.

[Sarah Colonna]

So many good ones. But yeah, for, for. It doesn't have to be just 10 years like it is in the book, but it is insane if you think about also just how relationships can either. I don't know what the word is that I'm looking for, because one's deteriorate and the other one is whatever the opposite of that is.

[John Ryan]

Evolve. Evolve.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah, I get prosper, evolve, devolve and deteriorate. But because if you think about people that you are like people that I was really. I've been close to all my life, or most of my life, I should say, say like one of my best friends right now, Sarah Tilly, right. She and I knew each other in college. And I shouldn't say right now. She's been one of my best friends for 20 plus years, but we actually went to college together. We knew each other in college. We. She dated one of my best friends in college. We weren't friends. We weren't enemies. We just weren't friends. She was in a sorority. I was a theater nerd. She was. We just had different friends, different everything other than the friend of mine that she dated, but. And he and I were super close and I haven't talked to him in years. But now she's one of my best friends. It all just changes. But when she moved out here to California within a few months of when I did, she and I. My friend that she had dated, he said you guys should hang out because you. I know you don't think you guys have stuff in common, but you do. We went out one night and then that was it. We were roommates for a long time after that. And if I had hit my head and woke up and found out that Sarah Tilly was one of my best friends, I'd have been like, what are you talking about? That girl, that sorority girl from college. Like, how am I best friends with her now? She seemed annoying. And now she's like one of my closest friends. And. And our relationship has only gotten closer, right? As we've gotten older. And same with all my three closest girlfriends. Her, Jackie, my friend Erica. Like, we've all become closer as we've gotten older because in some ways, like you said, you're good smaller, and then you focus more on the people that you want to spend time with.

[John Ryan]

And also, as you get older, I think you talk about, like, more real things.

[Sarah Colonna]

Right.

[John Ryan]

You know, I mean, like, you talking about real, more really real things that build, like, a deeper relationship with someone. And sometimes you have people in your life, they still want to talk about fricking whatever, and then they almost, like, fall off because, like, they're not maturing at the same level as you or something. Maybe. I don't know. Yeah, but it's like the older you get, the more real things you talk about, like, real things happen to you, you know, like, you know, a lot. Your dad died, your friend's dad died. Like, that stuff happens. It's like real life stuff that, like, you know, it makes people closer.

[Sarah Colonna]

It does. When you see, yeah, you see each, you see each other through, like, bigger changes in life the older you get. And they were all at my wedding. I was in their weddings. I've. We're seeing through with people having divorces. Not any of them, but like, in, in my. You, you see, it changes in everyone. But I think it would be, it would be jarring to not know and not be able to identify what went wrong and. Because that's like when you. And I'm talking about analysis, case in the book, when she is, like when she's hanging out with her sister and they used to be so close, and then.

[John Ryan]

Yeah.

[Sarah Colonna]

There's times in the book she's realizing, she's like, well, it feels like you're referring. You mean. What do you mean you don't see my kids all the time? What do you mean? I don't. You know, just. She's realizing and, and, and to have the other person be sitting there and I'm like, I, I, I'll save more of this conversation for week four, but next week. But just to have the other person sitting there knowing, being like, well, I know why. But also in some ways, not in some ways, it's like, it's just the passage of time that has affected our relationship. Priorities have changed. And that's kind of depressing.

[John Ryan]

Yeah. I mean, if you woke up 10 years from now and I was like, and you're asking about Sarah Tilly, I'm like, you guys aren't friends. You'd be, like, blown away.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah, exactly.

[John Ryan]

Right?

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah.

[John Ryan]

It'd be really weird.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah. And I, Yeah, I can't imagine what.

[John Ryan]

That'S like, well, I think we talked enough about relationships.

[Sarah Colonna]

Okay, I'm sorry, What else?

[John Ryan]

Did you have other things you want to talk about? Well, I have something else I want to talk about that's completely different because there is an interesting ending to this book.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah.

[John Ryan]

Say, not giving anything away, but I want to talk about some of the endings of famous TV shows because I'm always, I'm always fascinated with endings of how they end a series, because I feel like there's no matter how they end the show, most people hate it.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah.

[John Ryan]

Like, I feel like most movies, people are like, oh, that was a good ending. Like, most people can agree, but for a TV series, it's like you're basically wrapping up 10 years and a half an hour. Like Friends.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah.

[John Ryan]

I mean, like, you're wrapping up the whole entire thing. People, like, have, like, been like, especially Friends. Bring it up again. But because Friends people acted like they were actually friends with the Friends cast.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah.

[John Ryan]

And it's like, even now, Even, like, now Your nephew is 2087. His whole generation, it. Friends is almost off the air when they're born.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah.

[John Ryan]

They have all seen every episode of Friends.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah.

[John Ryan]

That's why Friends is so interesting, because it's like, it's not like, oh, yeah, I used to watch Friends. It's like every person I know has watched every single episode of Friends at least one time.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah, right. Like, yeah. Oh, yeah. I pull out a Friends reference, like, almost daily.

[John Ryan]

Does a Friends episode ever come on? You're like, oh, I haven't seen this one. Like, hasn't happened to me, like, a decade.

[Sarah Colonna]

No. But remember, I, I, I know I've told you this before, but for the listeners, we, My friend Jackie and I had a friend that, yeah, I haven't spoken to in years for whatever reason, but we used to hang out all the time. Speaking of, that was what I used to bartend, and he was a regular at Formosa, and we would always hang out and then just our relationship, I don't know, just kind of faded. But he really liked to talk, and he just told the same stories over and over. I mean, he just repeated stories because he liked this. I don't, it was insane. I would be like, I don't understand how he doesn't know that. He's told me the story already. But, okay. And it wasn't, There was nothing going on with the brain, I don't think. I think it was just genuinely, like, I talk so much I can't keep track of it. So I just going to tell you the story again. And I like this story. Some of them I enjoyed hearing again. Some of them I was like, oh, God, how am I going to get through this one again? But Jackie had the funniest joke about it once. She said, anytime he tells a story that you haven't heard that I haven't heard before, it's like discovering a new episode of Friends and being like, how the. Have I not seen this one? I thought I'd seen all of them. Anyway, sorry, but go ahead, continue.

[John Ryan]

So the ending of. Do you remember the ending of Friends?

[Sarah Colonna]

I do. They were all sitting in the apartment, right?

[John Ryan]

Yeah. But like, it ended like Ross and Rachel getting back together for the on scene of time. But it was like that show had to end like that, right? Like there's no other way that show could have ever ended.

[Sarah Colonna]

No, I don't. I think that for that, I thought the show ended great. I, I thought they. I thought they did a nice way of building up the last season. Monica and Chandler finding their dream house. Kind of a once again back to Will there and Will Day with Ross and Rachel. I. I thought it ended perfectly. They built it up perfectly and, and closed everyone's chapter. So I think if you would have ended it with them not being together and her moving, I think it was to Paris. Right. And I, I think you would have just destroyed a whole generation.

[John Ryan]

Yeah.

[Sarah Colonna]

Of Hearts.

[John Ryan]

It had to end. Like, I think the very end scene is like. I think it was like something like, do you want to go? Guys want to go get coffee? And Chandler's like, where do you want to go? And I think they all walk by. They all put their key down and they all walk out.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah, that was, that was, that was good. So I think give me a period.

[John Ryan]

I know most people agree that was a good one. But one of the most controversial ones because people hated it so much was the Sopranos.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah.

[John Ryan]

How just pretty much nothing happens. And it fades to black.

[Sarah Colonna]

And that was, it ended with him. With. It was. Maybe he was going to get killed, Right?

[John Ryan]

Yeah. And the whole family's in the diner and I think the last person pulls up to the diner and they're like slowly backing in. And I was like, I didn't think it was that bad because I was on pins and needles. This car's like backing in, backing up, backing in. I was like, this car's about to explode and they walk into the diner. The whole family's sitting there at a table. I'm like, someone's gonna shoot them up. Something's Gonna happen. And then it just fades to black and it's over.

[Sarah Colonna]

But wasn't there someone coming there to see them or. No, I can't remember now.

[John Ryan]

I can't remember that either. But I just remember being like. It was almost like a whole lot of nothing happened.

[Sarah Colonna]

Right.

[John Ryan]

In the last scene. People are very mad about it.

[Sarah Colonna]

I know. I remember that too. I remember being mad for not having closure on whatever it was that was happening. But I. I feel like. And I. I don't want to be frustrating to. To listeners for not knowing this, but I feel like there was some. It was like. It was a question of whether or not someone was going in to kill him. Yeah, I think, right?

[John Ryan]

Yeah, I believe so. But it was. I just know that was, like, one of the more controversial ones and, like, was just like, nothing happens. Whatever was supposed to happen, nothing happens. And people are very. People are still mad about it.

[Sarah Colonna]

Right. It says in the end. Okay, in the end. Because the thing about. Was a planned hit. The hitman was pretty clumsy. He walked in front of A.J. oh, I don't know what the. Never mind. It's not. It's not a. A good. I don't want to do research while we're trying to. Or her. Whilst waiting for his family to arrive, Tony selects the Journey song, Don't Stop Believing. Slowly, the other members of the family arrive like you. All the while, there are shots of a shady character lurking nearby, ramping up the tension. Each time a different person enters, Tony looks up, which makes sense. Blah, blah, blah. Eventually, the shady characters enters the bathroom, which we consider a bad sign. Then Meadow parks, the car rushes over to the restaurant. Doorbell rings. And then nothing. Cut to black. Silence. Right? And it says, fans all over the world were confused with many believing their TVs had stopped working.

[John Ryan]

I mean, yes, that's not the greatest finish. If that's. If that's the episode you wrote, people thought it, like, went off the air accidentally.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah. It's funny that. Because it says. It does in this article, this person's opinion. It says, the sudden cut to black represents the end of Tony Soprano's life. Earlier in the series, his friend Bobby said to him, you probably don't ever hear it when it happens. Right? And that's it. A cut to black and silence with no explanation of exactly what happens. You don't see yourself lying dead in your bowl of pasta life. The show is simply over, done and dusted. So this person definitely thinks that he died.

[John Ryan]

I don't. I don't like leaving it open Ended.

[Sarah Colonna]

I don't either.

[John Ryan]

Like a whole. I watched an entire series. I want to know that Ross and Rachel are getting together. Okay, I'm.

[Sarah Colonna]

I'm with you. I don't want to invest all that much time. And then you be like, yeah, it's up to you. You figure out what you think happened. No, fuck you. I want to know. Just like with Seinfeld, right? They put them all in jail. At least I know.

[John Ryan]

Yeah. They get like one year in jail the last episode. Remember when they're like, they're on the plane going to wherever they're going and they start. Hit like heavy turbulence and I can't remember if Seinfeld turned to what's her face, his former interest, Elaine, and said like, I've always loved you or something like that. Or she said it to him. Do you remember that?

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah.

[John Ryan]

And then it just. They went back to plane. Kept. Went back to normal. There's like, oh, what? What? Never mind. They just never talked about it again.

[Sarah Colonna]

Right.

[John Ryan]

So I guess they kind of left that a little open. But yeah, that Seinfeld ends with them going to jail. All them going to prison for a year.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah.

[John Ryan]

Which is which A lot of people didn't like that. I thought it was really funny, but a lot of people didn't like that either.

[Sarah Colonna]

I know that one was divisive too, but I liked it because it's just Seinfeld was just a. A ridiculous show as it was a ridiculous show. So give it a ridiculous ending. I don't need. There wasn't anything I need. Seinfeld didn't have other than, I guess, him and Elaine, but not really because they were. And they. We know they had slept together once or something.

[John Ryan]

Right.

[Sarah Colonna]

And then. Yeah, we're. I never really had. I never want. I never like, rooted for them to be a couple. I liked them. No friends. So I didn't need any closure on anything with Seinfeld. I just was like, I'm like, just give me a fun ending. If the show has to end, which I didn't want it to because I loved it at the time. But like, if it's gotta end, just give me a fun ending. There's nothing I need closure on.

[John Ryan]

Yeah, I agree.

[Sarah Colonna]

Other shows you need it on. Yeah.

[John Ryan]

Yes. Well, here. Well, I want to talk to you about this.

[Sarah Colonna]

Okay.

[John Ryan]

And we talked about it last night, so I'm not going to talk about the ending because you have never watched Breaking Bad.

[Sarah Colonna]

I know.

[John Ryan]

And we were out last night with a guy that was. Is a pretty big director. And he said it was the greatest show of all time. The number one show of all time. Breaking Bad.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah. He looked at me like eight heads when I said, I've never watched it.

[John Ryan]

Why do you refuse to watch it? Waiting for the next.

[Sarah Colonna]

I don't.

[John Ryan]

Pandemic.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah, I am. You know what happens to me when with shows like that is I don't. I. I didn't start it. And then everyone's talking about it and then I'm like, well, how many episodes do I have to. And then I just. I just never. I. I have nothing. I love what's his face. What's his name?

[John Ryan]

Brian. Brian Cranston.

[Sarah Colonna]

Thank you.

[John Ryan]

Love Walter White. Yeah.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah. And. And then, and then who got the spin off? That's really good.

[John Ryan]

Better Call Saul. Yeah, the guy who was in that movie during COVID That's how I get things through my head. He was on Saturday Night Live.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah, he's great. Can't think of his name right now. John and I are bad with details sometimes, but don't worry about it.

[John Ryan]

Bob od. Bob Odenkirk.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yes. God, he's amazing. And that shows and that. So. But. And then I never watched Better Call Saul because I didn't know. I didn't. I was like, well, now first I gotta watch Breaking Bad. So it's just. I'm just too far behind.

[John Ryan]

It got. But. But now you're so far behind, you might as well catch up, because there's no catching up. You can catch up on your own pace now.

[Sarah Colonna]

Okay.

[John Ryan]

You.

[Sarah Colonna]

You.

[John Ryan]

I feel like you have to watch it. It's so freaking good at first. The first, like two episodes, I was like, okay, how are you going to make the guy from Malcolm the dad from Malcolm in the Middle, some badass, you know, drug kingpin? And then within, like the first episode, you completely forget that he was ever on Malcolm in the Middle.

[Sarah Colonna]

Right.

[John Ryan]

It's such a great show.

[Sarah Colonna]

How did that. So I won't ask you to spoil the ending for me because since I haven't seen it, but do you. How did you feel that. That show for most. I'm sure a lot of our listeners have already seen it, so I thought.

[John Ryan]

It ended the only way it could end.

[Sarah Colonna]

Okay.

[John Ryan]

Yeah. Like, I thought it was a perfect ending. And then. And then a lot of people think the spin off was even better than the original show. Like, most spin offs kind of suck.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah. Joey.

[John Ryan]

Yeah, Joey wasn't great.

[Sarah Colonna]

No, I love. I love Matt LeBlanc, but that show was terrible.

[John Ryan]

If anyone watches Shoresy out there. That was a spin off of a Canadian show called Letterkenny. So watching shortsy out there right now.

[Sarah Colonna]

Well, and I like for Matt LeBlanc, I'd like to give him props for episodes. That was a great show. It was not a spin off or anything to do with Friends, but just a great show.

[John Ryan]

You know what? I think the biggest spin off of all time must have been maybe the longest running, and now it's not made another comeback is Kramer. Oh, because he was on cheers for 10 years and then it was a spin off to Kramer. I think Kramer went another 10 years.

[Sarah Colonna]

No, he was on Seinfeld for 10 years.

[John Ryan]

No, no, no. Not, not, not. Not. Cosmo. Kramer. Kramer, the psychologist from Cheers.

[Sarah Colonna]

I was about to. I was about to say to you, like, don't. Don't you think you know why Kramer? It doesn't have another show. Google it. Okay, so sorry, I totally forgot.

[John Ryan]

What? Kelsey Grammer.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yes. Kelsey Grammer. Yes. And now it has.

[John Ryan]

It's Kramer. Right. Am I losing my mind?

[Sarah Colonna]

I think I believe so. Yes, he was Cosmo. Yes, he was. No, yeah, yeah. Not Cosmo. I know what you're saying. Yes, it was Kramer.

[John Ryan]

Yeah.

[Sarah Colonna]

TV show Kramer.

[John Ryan]

Fraser Crane.

[Sarah Colonna]

Frasier Crane.

[John Ryan]

Crane. And the spin off was called Frasier.

[Sarah Colonna]

It was called Frasier. There you go. See, you did up.

[John Ryan]

Yeah. I was close, though.

[Sarah Colonna]

You were close? I was like, oh, I don't think that people.

[John Ryan]

People got a real inside look at how both our brains work there for the last three minutes. Like a real. You guys just got to see how CTE works in real life. With my brain.

[Sarah Colonna]

Stop it. I won't if you have it. That'd be. So do I then.

[John Ryan]

But no, you haven't. Yeah.

[Sarah Colonna]

Okay, so yeah, Fraser, successful spin off. Correct.

[John Ryan]

Frasier Crane, not Kramer. Yeah. And that. And now it came back again.

[Sarah Colonna]

Right.

[John Ryan]

So his character was running for like 20 some years.

[Sarah Colonna]

Oh, yeah.

[John Ryan]

Kelsey, grammar. Huh? Okay, so back to Breaking Bad.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yes.

[John Ryan]

You need to watch it.

[Sarah Colonna]

Okay. And you feel like it ended the only way it should have ended. Did it also end to save, set up the spin off?

[John Ryan]

Well, like, not really. Because, like, in this, it was like Bob Odenkirk was almost like a side character. Like everything was like. Like Jesse Pink Pinkman and Brian Cranston. It was like, yeah. Bob W. Kirk was almost like a side character, but a very funny character. So it all spun off on him.

[Sarah Colonna]

Okay, so they didn't really need to set up that spin off. Like it was just gonna be good.

[John Ryan]

Yeah, it was just gonna be Good. Okay. Oh, here's. Here's. Here's one for you. One of the greatest shows of all time, the Office.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yes.

[John Ryan]

Remember how. Do you remember how it ended?

[Sarah Colonna]

I.

[John Ryan]

Well, nobody does because no one watched it.

[Sarah Colonna]

Oh.

[John Ryan]

The last two years, nobody. Once. Once. Once. What's his face left.

[Sarah Colonna]

Steve Carell.

[John Ryan]

Steve Carell left. No one watched it.

[Sarah Colonna]

Right.

[John Ryan]

Like, I've watched every episode of that show. Some of them, like the Christmas specials. I've watched them all at least 10 times.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah.

[John Ryan]

The other day, one of the. One of the episodes from the last two seasons came out. I'm like, oh, I haven't seen this one, like, the last two years. It was just like, once he left, Steve Carell left. It was just like a different show.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah. Can you imagine how confused Alice would have been if she woke up and Steve Carell wasn't on the Office anymore? She's like, what's happening?

[John Ryan]

She was more mad than I was.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah, that's true. I don't. Yeah. I have no idea how it ended. I didn't watch it after that. That's a good point, though, because sometimes things just. I understand wanting to ride something out because it's so successful, but it's like. And I think. I think TV is getting way better at this and sometimes a little too soon. If you're talking. If you're talking about the Netflix show I was on should have given us one more season, but sure, one more. Like, some. I think they're better at pulling the plug now because they're like, let's not do. And I'm not saying they're using the Office as an example. I just. Yeah. Like, let's not do what the Office did. Let's not go for too, like, let's go out on. On. On Top of our Game kind of thing.

[John Ryan]

The three of the three shows that I was mad that didn't go at least one more season was obviously the show you're on. Insatiable. It definitely needed a third season. Another one. I just. It was a show I never wanted to go away was Eastbound and Down.

[Sarah Colonna]

I know.

[John Ryan]

I think we have three or four seasons. The first season in the Mexico episode and then the Myrtle beach season.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah, there's three.

[John Ryan]

I think it was three.

[Sarah Colonna]

I feel like it was three. I feel like they never give Danny Bright, Danny McBride, enough seasons. He needs to always have 47 seasons, in my opinion.

[John Ryan]

Like, what? Righteous Gemstones is a fourth season now.

[Sarah Colonna]

And it's the last one.

[John Ryan]

There's only two or three. I mean, but the great Thing about it is he's gonna be on a new HBO show next year, I guarantee it.

[Sarah Colonna]

Oh, yeah.

[John Ryan]

Like he'll just keep on coming back. Every. Every three years has a new show. Just keep on pumping them out, I swear.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah. And they're always top notch, hilarious. We're big Danny McBride fan. Big Danny McBride household here. Yeah. If I will. If I got hit on the hat and woke up and he was not on my television anymore, I'd be real pissed off and confused.

[John Ryan]

Exactly. And the other one was Ted Lasso. I wanted that to keep on going. I think, I think, I think we have a sports show you can go on for longer. Like Varsity Blues. It went on. Not Varsity Blues, Friday Night Lights. It went on like through multiple, like, rosters even. Like, you know, the coach was the same.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah. Yeah. True.

[John Ryan]

I don't know if it really ever lost its steam like it was. It must have gone like six or seven years, right?

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah. I wanted it to keep going forever too. That was in another show that I just.

[John Ryan]

I really thought Ted Lasso could have been like another couple years. But I mean, it was. It was fun while it lasted.

[Sarah Colonna]

Was fun while it lasted and it brought it.

[John Ryan]

Don't be sad because it's over. Be happy that it happened.

[Sarah Colonna]

Yeah.

[John Ryan]

Live well.

[Sarah Colonna]

Try telling that to Alice while she's trading this book, while she's trying to figure out what the. Did happen. Like why so many of her relationships changed such a short period of time. Yeah. The ending of this book I'm excited to talk to you about because I do have. I think it's. I think it's going to be a controversial. I don't know, I haven't googled, like what people think of that because I didn't want to spoil stuff. I didn't want to spoil my own take. So I'll look that up afterwards because sometimes my brain can be influenced by something. Like if I, if I start just like, what? For the short story that we did this past weekend for Patreon. Like the minute you said something, I'm like, oh, it was a good thing because it gave me more resolution. But I. Something I hadn't thought of and I thought it was more of an open ended thing. And then you explained something to me that clicked, but with this. And so I don't know if that will happen with it. But I don't want to. I want to come in with my opinion on the ending of this without seeing what people said about it on Goodreads and whatnot before.

[John Ryan]

Yeah. Well, I'M gonna, I'm gonna reread it this week because I haven't read it in almost a year. I think it's been a while since I read it. So I'm gonna rewrite read it right before we do our next podcast. So it's fresh in my brain.

[Sarah Colonna]

I know that's what you like to do. And I'm going to be going back through it too right before just be just to make sure that I didn't miss any of the answers to the questions that I have. I don't think I did though. But yeah, ending. We'll see. Well, you good?

[John Ryan]

Looks like we made it Looks like.

[Sarah Colonna]

We made it through another episode of the Book List that we love doing so much. Because guys, thank you for listening and please do us a favor and rate, review and subscribe. You can always support us by joining Patreon too. And we give you content for that. It's not, it's not just for funsies for you. You actually get something out of it. I mean, it is for funsies, but I'm just saying you get it. Just join us there if you can. It's only $5 a month. Lots of fun. Join the Book List Spinners on Facebook. We keep a featured tab of all the books that we're reading, including the short stories. And you can keep a your, you know, if you forgot what we're reading, you can go check that way. And next month is what? No, when she was Then she was Gone by Lisa Jewel. Next week we'll be talking to you about what Alice forgot and full review, blah blah, blah, all the things, thoughts and see you then.

[John Ryan]

See you next week.

[Sarah Colonna]

Bye. The Book List, the Book lisp. The Book list, the book lisp. The Book List.