The Book Lisp with Jon Ryan & Sarah Colonna
Episode: "The Good Lie” Full Discussion
Release Date: October 27, 2025

Episode Overview

In this lively and candid discussion, married co-hosts Sarah Colonna and Jon Ryan dive deep into A.R. Torrey's psychological thriller, "The Good Lie." With their signature blend of humor and sharp insight, they unpack the book’s shocking twists, provocative themes, and complex characters, while also reflecting on what it means to consume dark thrillers as part of a book club. Along the way, the hosts parse plot holes, ethical dilemmas, and personal reactions, giving listeners both a critical rundown and a taste of their unique marital banter.

Main Discussion Points

1. Reactions to the Book and Its Big Twist

• Sarah admits she did not see the central twist coming: “I tried to kind of pick up that it was going to end up being John that was the BH Killer. And I didn't see it. I thought that this was for me personally, this was a very well hidden twist that I didn't see coming.” (04:48)
• Jon acknowledges the author’s skill at misdirection: “I think it was always in the back of my mind. I thought at the first it was almost too obvious that just because he was brought up right from the get go.” (07:30)

2. The Characters: Complex Motivations and Psychology

Gwen (Dr. Moore):

• The hosts discuss whether anyone could mentally stomach Gwen’s job as a psychiatrist dealing with dangerous, confessional patients.
• They reflect on her ethical gray area, especially regarding deleted voice messages and her sense of guilt:

  “She deletes the phone messages...the minute she finds out he's dead, she is covering her own ass because she didn't come to them. She knows that she probably could have prevented Brooke's.” (18:30)

Robert:

• Jon and Sarah debate Robert’s motivations and eventual actions, especially his pursuit of justice and closure.
• Sarah observes Robert’s evolution by the novel’s end:

  “...the closure of bringing... [John] to justice by killing him, but he also brought him to justice publicly right by...when everyone found out that he was actually the BH killer. ...it was kind of an interesting character thing to see...this heaviness taken out of him.” (29:48)

Scott and ‘The Influencer’ Thread:

• The hosts discuss Scott's arc, his trauma, and the theme of unreliable truth:

  Jon: “There was a time where I thought that he was just making the entire thing up.” (13:28)

• They debate whether the narrative is fair in how it handles blame towards victims, with Jon noting discomfort when implication falls on Scott. (14:04-15:02)
• Sarah counters: “I just. I'm disagreeing on the fact that I don't feel like that the author was writing it as if he was...I think the author is letting us know how gross this guy is that he's actually gonna...go after this family.” (14:20)

3. Moral and Legal Ambiguity

• Jon and Sarah examine the blurry line in psychiatric confidentiality and danger reporting:

  Jon: “It's not illegal to think that you want to kill someone, but maybe it's illegal to what, verbalize it?...The stress that this woman must go through dealing with all these people is crazy.” (17:58)

• They tackle realism in courtroom procedures, such as Robert representing the man accused of killing his son:

  Jon: “In the real world. Would a judge ever allow that? There's no way. Would he?” (22:37) Sarah: “I have no idea. Like, our legal experts here, as on the listeners, please let us know...” (23:14)

4. Plot Details and Potential Holes

• Both hosts point out the handful of story beats that seemed superfluous—such as the missing wallet/keys and unresolved references to Robert's ex-wife’s murder:

  Sarah: “Am I crazy? Did it...Did we ever follow up on that [Robert’s ex]? Did I miss something?...It just felt like a little thing that never went anywhere.” (38:40) The Goodreads community agrees, according to Sarah. (41:10)

• Luke’s subplot and its connection (or lack of) to the main narrative also prompts questions from both.

5. Serial Killer Logic & Motives

• The hosts muse on real-world and fictional compulsions of serial killers, the roots of evil, and why such stories fascinate readers:

  Jon: “That's the thing. Serial killers too. It's like, I think that's part of the reason why people are so fascinated with serial killers is because...our heads don't work like that. And so we want to try to understand how their heads...work, and we just can't wrap our minds around it.” (36:21) Sarah: “...a lot [of abuse] happens to a lot of people and they don't turn around and do another awful thing to someone else. So it's just such a...Who knows?” (36:35)

6. Lighter Moments & Banter

• Classic “Book Lisp” humor peppered throughout. On buying houses with a dark past:

  Jon: “Always look in the attic before you buy a house. And if there's a row of pinky fingers in there, do not buy it.” (34:08)

• The infamous “bucket of beer” bar scene:

  Jon: “Dr. Moore, Gwen walks into the bar after the funeral and she's sitting there by herself and she orders a bucket of beer. A bucket of beer. That should not be questioned by anybody. If I want to sit there and drink five cold beer by myself...let me drink my five beers in a fucking bucket.” (42:21) Sarah: “Yeah, and let's normalize women doing it too. ...these are my five beers. You go get yourself one, buddy.” (42:24)

Notable Quotes & Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote | |-----------|---------|-------| | 04:48 | Sarah | "I tried to kind of pick up that it was going to end up being John that was the BH Killer. And I didn't see it..." | | 07:30 | Jon | “I think it was always in the back of my mind. I just, I thought at the first it was almost too obvious...” | | 13:28 | Jon | “There was a time where I thought that he was just making the entire thing up.” | | 18:30 | Sarah | “She deletes the phone messages...the minute she finds out he's dead, she is covering her own ass...” | | 29:48 | Sarah | “...the closure of...bringing him to justice by killing him, but he also brought him to justice publicly...” | | 34:08 | Jon | “Always look in the attic before you buy a house. And if there's a row of pinky fingers in there, do not buy it.” | | 36:21 | Jon | "That's part of the reason why people are so fascinated with serial killers is because our heads don't work like that..." | | 42:21 | Jon | "If I want to sit there and drink five cold beer by myself...let me drink my five beers in a fucking bucket." | | 44:55 | Sarah | “I give her four and a half out of five martinis.” |

Ratings & Final Thoughts

• Jon: 9 out of 12 beers (“I loved it... definitely read another book by A.R. Torrey.”) (44:26)
• Sarah: 4.5 out of 5 martinis (“I did like her writing even if I had questions on a couple of things.”) (44:55)

Both recommend "The Good Lie" for fans of psychological thrillers, agreeing it kept them guessing and inspired lively debate, even if a few narrative loose ends remain.

Key Timestamps

• [04:48] – Sarah reveals she didn’t see the twist coming.
• [07:30] – Jon discusses misdirection and suspecting John.
• [13:28-15:01] – Scott’s arc and questions of blame.
• [18:30] – Ethics of Gwen’s choices and deleted messages.
• [22:37] – The legal angle: Could Robert really represent Randall?
• [29:48] – Robert’s closure and justice for BH Killer.
• [34:08] – The attic, pinky fingers, and buying houses with history.
• [36:21] – Why are we fascinated by serial killers?
• [42:21] – “Bucket of beer” bar scene and gendered drinking norms.
• [44:26-44:55] – Final ratings and recommendations.

Closing

Listeners are invited to share their thoughts, disagreements, and interpretations, as Sarah and Jon encourage a spirited exchange of opinions. The next pick is a lighter read—“12 Days of Christmas” by Debbie Macomber—offering recovery from this month’s psychological rollercoaster.

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