The Book Lisp with Jon Ryan & Sarah Colonna

Episode: “Twelve Days of Christmas” Full Discussion
Date: November 24, 2025
Hosts: Jon Ryan & Sarah Colonna

Episode Theme & Purpose

This episode features Jon Ryan and Sarah Colonna’s lively, humorous deep-dive into Twelve Days of Christmas by Debbie Macomber (pronounced “May Comber” as per the audiobook). As part of their monthly book club, Jon curates romance and Sarah brings psychological thrillers—this installment lands firmly in holiday romance territory. Their discussion blends fun banter, critical insights, and marriage banter as they break down the Hallmark-esque plot, the characters’ likability (or lack thereof!), and broader themes like good deeds and selflessness.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Background & Context ([04:19])

• Debbie Macomber is from Port Orchard, Washington; the book’s inspiration came from the author’s personal experience of losing a parking spot at a mall during Christmas. ([04:24])

Main Plot: “Twelve Days of Christmas”

• Premise: Julia, a Macy’s employee, competes for a social media job by “killing her neighbor Kane with kindness” and blogging about it for 12 days.
• Sarah: Finds the book reads like a Hallmark movie script: “It was very—I felt like the book was written very much like I was watching, reading a Hallmark movie script. Yeah, right. And I’m sure that’s what she was going for. And, you know, and we like those. They’re like a nice, warm hug.” ([06:42])

Character Analysis

Julia ([07:12]; [15:55]; [22:15])

• Both hosts find Julia kind-hearted but extremely annoying:
  • Jon: “She’s very annoying. Right off the bat, one of the first things she did that really annoyed me was…she goes to Starbucks and buys a gift card for Phil the barista…She confronts Kane later and says, like, why didn’t you take the coffee from Phil? And he goes, who’s Phil? She’s just like, oh my god, how do you not know?” ([16:09])
  • Sarah: “I’m so glad that you found her annoying, too.”
  • Julia is described as chatty, boundary-crossing, and idealistic, but softens by the end and shows growth.
• Both hosts compare their own personalities to Julia/Kane but agree they’d handle things with less intensity.

Kane ([19:40]; [25:22])

• Kane is the “Scrooge” archetype—cold and reserved but with a heart of gold.
  • Jon: “I don’t have many friends, but once you’re my friend, you’re my friend for life. Usually, people like that are hard to get through to, but then when you’re through to them, they’re loyal, right?”
  • He takes care of his grandfather and gradually warms up due to Julia’s persistent kindness.
  • His fault: “Does he accuse her of stalking him when all she’s doing is playing piano for old people? Yes. Does he admit his mistake pretty quickly? Yes.” ([19:49]-[20:35])

Hallmark Tropes & Formula ([15:39]; [39:10])

• Both recognize and accept the book’s “silly, formulaic” Lifetime/Hallmark movie moments (public conflict, big misunderstandings, dramatic revelations).
• Sarah: “The book, it’s a formula. It’s great, it’s sweet, it’s fun…We like that he softens, that she wins him over. We want her to tell him about the blog so he doesn’t get mad at her. But then we wouldn’t have a good ending. You need the drama.”

Deeper Questions: What Makes a Good Deed? ([08:20]; [09:49])

• Jon raises the psychological question: If you do something good for someone but it’s also for your own gain (like a job), is it still a good deed?
  • “Is it still a good deed if someone just is trying to do it for themselves?” ([08:27])
• Both discuss the psychology of altruism vs. reciprocity, referencing real-world examples (e.g., charity, celebrity giving).
  • Sarah: “Could a good deed sometimes be something that benefits both people? Sure. So it’s not a selfless deed, but it can still be a good deed.” ([08:50])
  • They agree that while motives can be mixed, good results shouldn’t be dismissed.

Blogging & Modern Social Media ([08:13]; [18:18])

• Discussion about whether people still blog, versus modern platforms.
• They find it charming (and slightly dated) that Julia’s blogging for her job competition, but recognize parallels to today’s newsletters and substacks.

Relationship Growth & Trust ([28:49]; [29:53])

• The debate over Kane’s reaction to Julia’s secret:
  • Jon: “Do you think he was justified being so upset when she first told him about the blog?”
  • Sarah: “I think it was okay for him to be upset…I think there are certain red flags from people you don’t deal with… so in that, like, if I…found out about [secret messages], I would have probably broken up with you because I’d had that done to me before.”

Realism & Relatability ([31:56])

• The hosts poke fun at the compressed timeline (everything happens in “12 days”) and how quickly major life events unfold.
  • Sarah: “This is all 12 days. Like, even when he was mad at her, what was it for? Like a day, 12 hours.”

Sickness, Soup & Love ([32:13])

• Sidetrack into their own couples’ experiences of being sick, comfort food preferences (Lipton soup vs. deli soup), and traditions.
• Sarah’s confession: “I want to be sick so I can eat [Lipton soup], because…I feel better immediately.” ([39:27])

Memorable/Comic Moments

• Starbucks Rants: Both hosts riffing on the absurdity of expecting to know your barista’s name, with Jon doing an extended bit ([17:19]):
  • “20,000 other people behind her in line trying to get to work by 8 o’clock. It’s 7:55. Phil, what’s happening? What you do last night? How’s your mom? Phil, did you ever go out with that girl Melissa?…Shut the up, Julia, and move on.”
• Food Tangents: Passionate defense of Lipton’s packet soups, and Jon’s story of the “bag of warm oysters” in Mexico and subsequent food poisoning ([33:07]).

Quick Take: Other Book Elements

• Actuary Career: Brief discussion of what an actuary is, and why Kane would make a great salary ([42:07]).
• Grandpa Bernie: Comic relief regarding the quickness of Grandpa “ditching” Kane for Julia’s Christmas dinner ([24:20]).
• Finale: Flash forward to next Christmas—Kane and Julia are married, have two dogs, and Grandpa clamoring for a grandchild.

Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• On Motivation:
  • Jon (about psychology and good deeds): “Everything you do is to make yourself feel better…It’s a very depressing theory.” ([09:27])
• On Julia’s Annoying Generosity:
  • Jon: “She…buys a gift card for the barista…‘Why didn’t you take the coffee from Phil?’…‘Who’s Phil?’ …who knows their local barista’s name?” ([16:09])
• Holiday Romance Realism:
  • Sarah: “We like those. They’re like a nice warm hug.” ([06:42])
• Deeds and Attention:
  • Sarah: “Nothing should ever be shit on when it’s a donation.” ([13:07])
• Grandpa as a Character:
  • Sarah: “I know that you’re completely alone on Christmas Eve, but I go to Julia’s…” ([24:20])
• Jon’s food poisoning story:
  • Jon: “I see a woman walking down the beach with what in my head is a bag of fresh oysters…all the guys are like, ‘What the fuck are you doing?’…No, I was sick. Like I thought I was gonna die.” ([33:07])
• Julia’s Personality:
  • Sarah: “She can’t stop talking.” ([29:27])
• Book’s Purpose:
  • Jon: “It’s exactly what I wanted…It’s exactly hallmarky.” ([47:20])

Ratings & Final Thoughts ([47:41]-[48:36])

• Jon: 9.5 out of 12 beers—“Very happy with it.”
• Sarah: 3.5 out of 5 martinis—“Sweet, fun, good read, page-turner…a little cheesy for me, but that’s the point.”

Timestamps for Major Segments

• [04:19] – Author background & inspiration
• [05:10] – Job competition plot and real-life comparisons
• [08:20] – Psychological discussion: Are good deeds ever selfless?
• [15:39] – Hallmark tropes and Sarah’s “Ebenezer” take
• [16:09] – Julia and the Starbucks gift card incident
• [17:19] – Extended barista/busy morning rant
• [19:40] – Kane’s character and growth
• [22:15] – Julia’s over-eagerness on the first date
• [24:20] – Grandpa’s quick switch to Julia’s side
• [28:49] – Should Kane be mad about the blog?
• [31:56] – Everything happens in 12 days
• [32:13] – Sickness, soup, and relationship comfort
• [42:07] – Kane’s job as an actuary, living arrangements
• [45:02] – Fast-forward finale: marriage, dogs, Grandpa clamoring
• [47:20] – Final thoughts and ratings

Overall Tone

Playful, self-deprecating, and highly conversational, Jon and Sarah use personal anecdotes and pop culture riffs (Taylor Swift, Russell Wilson, Hallmark/Lifetime) to connect the book’s themes to everyday life. Frequent tangents and laughter keep the discussion lively and relatable.

For Listeners Who Missed the Episode

This energetic discussion offers a full-spectrum review: plot breakdown, character critique, philosophical musings on altruism, and a side order of marriage-and-parenthood jokes—all laced with holiday spirit and trademark Book Lisp warmth. If you love cozy Christmas romances and spirited, real-talk couple commentary, this episode is a treat.

Next Month’s Book:
Christmas Presents by Lisa Unger (Sarah’s pick).

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