“Twelve Days of Christmas” Full Discussion

Summary

The Book Lisp with Jon Ryan & Sarah Colonna

Episode: “Twelve Days of Christmas” Full Discussion
Date: November 24, 2025
Hosts: Jon Ryan & Sarah Colonna

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Episode Theme & Purpose

This episode features Jon Ryan and Sarah Colonna’s lively, humorous deep-dive into Twelve Days of Christmas by Debbie Macomber (pronounced “May Comber” as per the audiobook). As part of their monthly book club, Jon curates romance and Sarah brings psychological thrillers—this installment lands firmly in holiday romance territory. Their discussion blends fun banter, critical insights, and marriage banter as they break down the Hallmark-esque plot, the characters’ likability (or lack thereof!), and broader themes like good deeds and selflessness.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Background & Context ([04:19])

• Debbie Macomber is from Port Orchard, Washington; the book’s inspiration came from the author’s personal experience of losing a parking spot at a mall during Christmas. ([04:24])

Main Plot: “Twelve Days of Christmas”

• Premise: Julia, a Macy’s employee, competes for a social media job by “killing her neighbor Kane with kindness” and blogging about it for 12 days.
• Sarah: Finds the book reads like a Hallmark movie script: “It was very—I felt like the book was written very much like I was watching, reading a Hallmark movie script. Yeah, right. And I’m sure that’s what she was going for. And, you know, and we like those. They’re like a nice, warm hug.” ([06:42])

Character Analysis

Julia ([07:12]; [15:55]; [22:15])

• Both hosts find Julia kind-hearted but extremely annoying:
  • Jon: “She’s very annoying. Right off the bat, one of the first things she did that really annoyed me was…she goes to Starbucks and buys a gift card for Phil the barista…She confronts Kane later and says, like, why didn’t you take the coffee from Phil? And he goes, who’s Phil? She’s just like, oh my god, how do you not know?” ([16:09])
  • Sarah: “I’m so glad that you found her annoying, too.”
  • Julia is described as chatty, boundary-crossing, and idealistic, but softens by the end and shows growth.
• Both hosts compare their own personalities to Julia/Kane but agree they’d handle things with less intensity.

Kane ([19:40]; [25:22])

• Kane is the “Scrooge” archetype—cold and reserved but with a heart of gold.
  • Jon: “I don’t have many friends, but once you’re my friend, you’re my friend for life. Usually, people like that are hard to get through to, but then when you’re through to them, they’re loyal, right?”
  • He takes care of his grandfather and gradually warms up due to Julia’s persistent kindness.
  • His fault: “Does he accuse her of stalking him when all she’s doing is playing piano for old people? Yes. Does he admit his mistake pretty quickly? Yes.” ([19:49]-[20:35])

Hallmark Tropes & Formula ([15:39]; [39:10])

• Both recognize and accept the book’s “silly, formulaic” Lifetime/Hallmark movie moments (public conflict, big misunderstandings, dramatic revelations).
• Sarah: “The book, it’s a formula. It’s great, it’s sweet, it’s fun…We like that he softens, that she wins him over. We want her to tell him about the blog so he doesn’t get mad at her. But then we wouldn’t have a good ending. You need the drama.”

Deeper Questions: What Makes a Good Deed? ([08:20]; [09:49])

• Jon raises the psychological question: If you do something good for someone but it’s also for your own gain (like a job), is it still a good deed?
  • “Is it still a good deed if someone just is trying to do it for themselves?” ([08:27])
• Both discuss the psychology of altruism vs. reciprocity, referencing real-world examples (e.g., charity, celebrity giving).
  • Sarah: “Could a good deed sometimes be something that benefits both people? Sure. So it’s not a selfless deed, but it can still be a good deed.” ([08:50])
  • They agree that while motives can be mixed, good results shouldn’t be dismissed.

Blogging & Modern Social Media ([08:13]; [18:18])

• Discussion about whether people still blog, versus modern platforms.
• They find it charming (and slightly dated) that Julia’s blogging for her job competition, but recognize parallels to today’s newsletters and substacks.

Relationship Growth & Trust ([28:49]; [29:53])

• The debate over Kane’s reaction to Julia’s secret:
  • Jon: “Do you think he was justified being so upset when she first told him about the blog?”
  • Sarah: “I think it was okay for him to be upset…I think there are certain red flags from people you don’t deal with… so in that, like, if I…found out about [secret messages], I would have probably broken up with you because I’d had that done to me before.”

Realism & Relatability ([31:56])

• The hosts poke fun at the compressed timeline (everything happens in “12 days”) and how quickly major life events unfold.
  • Sarah: “This is all 12 days. Like, even when he was mad at her, what was it for? Like a day, 12 hours.”

Sickness, Soup & Love ([32:13])

• Sidetrack into their own couples’ experiences of being sick, comfort food preferences (Lipton soup vs. deli soup), and traditions.
• Sarah’s confession: “I want to be sick so I can eat [Lipton soup], because…I feel better immediately.” ([39:27])

Memorable/Comic Moments

• Starbucks Rants: Both hosts riffing on the absurdity of expecting to know your barista’s name, with Jon doing an extended bit ([17:19]):
  • “20,000 other people behind her in line trying to get to work by 8 o’clock. It’s 7:55. Phil, what’s happening? What you do last night? How’s your mom? Phil, did you ever go out with that girl Melissa?…Shut the up, Julia, and move on.”
• Food Tangents: Passionate defense of Lipton’s packet soups, and Jon’s story of the “bag of warm oysters” in Mexico and subsequent food poisoning ([33:07]).

Quick Take: Other Book Elements

• Actuary Career: Brief discussion of what an actuary is, and why Kane would make a great salary ([42:07]).
• Grandpa Bernie: Comic relief regarding the quickness of Grandpa “ditching” Kane for Julia’s Christmas dinner ([24:20]).
• Finale: Flash forward to next Christmas—Kane and Julia are married, have two dogs, and Grandpa clamoring for a grandchild.

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Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• On Motivation:
  • Jon (about psychology and good deeds): “Everything you do is to make yourself feel better…It’s a very depressing theory.” ([09:27])
• On Julia’s Annoying Generosity:
  • Jon: “She…buys a gift card for the barista…‘Why didn’t you take the coffee from Phil?’…‘Who’s Phil?’ …who knows their local barista’s name?” ([16:09])
• Holiday Romance Realism:
  • Sarah: “We like those. They’re like a nice warm hug.” ([06:42])
• Deeds and Attention:
  • Sarah: “Nothing should ever be shit on when it’s a donation.” ([13:07])
• Grandpa as a Character:
  • Sarah: “I know that you’re completely alone on Christmas Eve, but I go to Julia’s…” ([24:20])
• Jon’s food poisoning story:
  • Jon: “I see a woman walking down the beach with what in my head is a bag of fresh oysters…all the guys are like, ‘What the fuck are you doing?’…No, I was sick. Like I thought I was gonna die.” ([33:07])
• Julia’s Personality:
  • Sarah: “She can’t stop talking.” ([29:27])
• Book’s Purpose:
  • Jon: “It’s exactly what I wanted…It’s exactly hallmarky.” ([47:20])

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Ratings & Final Thoughts ([47:41]-[48:36])

• Jon: 9.5 out of 12 beers—“Very happy with it.”
• Sarah: 3.5 out of 5 martinis—“Sweet, fun, good read, page-turner…a little cheesy for me, but that’s the point.”

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• [04:19] – Author background & inspiration
• [05:10] – Job competition plot and real-life comparisons
• [08:20] – Psychological discussion: Are good deeds ever selfless?
• [15:39] – Hallmark tropes and Sarah’s “Ebenezer” take
• [16:09] – Julia and the Starbucks gift card incident
• [17:19] – Extended barista/busy morning rant
• [19:40] – Kane’s character and growth
• [22:15] – Julia’s over-eagerness on the first date
• [24:20] – Grandpa’s quick switch to Julia’s side
• [28:49] – Should Kane be mad about the blog?
• [31:56] – Everything happens in 12 days
• [32:13] – Sickness, soup, and relationship comfort
• [42:07] – Kane’s job as an actuary, living arrangements
• [45:02] – Fast-forward finale: marriage, dogs, Grandpa clamoring
• [47:20] – Final thoughts and ratings

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Overall Tone

Playful, self-deprecating, and highly conversational, Jon and Sarah use personal anecdotes and pop culture riffs (Taylor Swift, Russell Wilson, Hallmark/Lifetime) to connect the book’s themes to everyday life. Frequent tangents and laughter keep the discussion lively and relatable.

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For Listeners Who Missed the Episode

This energetic discussion offers a full-spectrum review: plot breakdown, character critique, philosophical musings on altruism, and a side order of marriage-and-parenthood jokes—all laced with holiday spirit and trademark Book Lisp warmth. If you love cozy Christmas romances and spirited, real-talk couple commentary, this episode is a treat.

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Next Month’s Book:
Christmas Presents by Lisa Unger (Sarah’s pick).

Join their Patreon for bonus short stories and additional episodes.

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Transcript

[A]

Hi, I'm Sarah Colonna.

[B]

And I'm John Ryan.

[A]

And you're listening to the Book List. The Book List.

[B]

The Book Lisp.

[A]

Oh, that's right. You're listening to the Book Lisp. Hello and welcome to the Book Lisp with John Ryan and Sarah Colonna. Hi, John.

[B]

Hello, Sarah.

[A]

Hi. John's agitated because when he was trying to log on earlier, his headphones weren't working and I was coming through his computer. And then we got it figured out, and now we're here. He's still agitated.

[B]

I'm getting over it.

[A]

Slowly getting over it, guys. He's going to be okay. It's the big week. It's week four when we talk about, fully talk about our review of the book of this month, November, which was the 12 Days of Christmas by Debbie McComber. Is that right? Macomber. Macomber.

[B]

In the audiobook, they say May Comber.

[A]

Oh, there you go. May Comber, Debbie. May Comber. And I'm excited to get into this. I have some thoughts for you and good don't. For December, we are reading Christmas Presents by Lisa Unger, which I am now, like, halfway through. And I really like it.

[B]

Yeah, it was good.

[A]

Yeah. I thought in my brain that you were telling me you didn't like it, but you were just telling me it's a little bit different than my normal one. I think it's.

[B]

Yeah, I thought it was good.

[A]

Still pretty dark, though. But I am enjoying it. I kind of like the idea that it's got this podcast happening since, you know, we're a podcast. So that's your book for December. Normally we would announce right now. Oh, no. First week of December is when we announce so early. Yeah, sorry. I was thinking John had to announce his book and that he was behind, but really, he doesn't have to do it till next week. Don't worry, he'll have it for you next week. And join us on patreon. It's only $5 a month. We do a short story. We have such fun with the short stories. On the 15th, we do. On the 5th and the 25th, we do just random podcasts. You get three bonus podcasts there a month. They're all video, but you can also just listen to them if you want because we put it up through the recording the book list so that you would listen to it how you normally do. If you don't want to watch it, we'll probably throw in a couple extra things since it's. Since it's a Christmas month, probably a Little less hanging out, watching, looking at John's decorations. Who knows? Anyway, John is. You can see that, John, if you. Well, I can't see it right now, but you'll see it when we put up a clip that we're both dressed. We're going to a wedding this afternoon. The afternoon that we're recording this. I still have a little touch up to do on my makeup, but John's wearing a suit and a tie. It's not because he's taking this podcast seriously. It's because we're going to a wedding.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

That's count. That's correct. And as of today, my tickets to December 17th at Snowmass, Colorado, should be on sale. So at some point that Today, Monday the 24th, they'll be on sale. So get those. And then Spokane Comedy Club, New Year's Eve. You got to come to that. You got to come to Tacoma January 2nd and 3rd, you got to come in to see me in Iowa at the Wild resorts casino there February 6th. And then February 27th and 28th. And Mary Rodzinski will be with me on all of those. It's Emmitsburg, Jefferson and Clinton are the cities. I keep missing that. Why is my brain not working? And then weekend.

[B]

What, you're gonna come home with no money? Three. Three straight casino shows.

[A]

Well, what. One is just double, double bonus poker. I don't know if they have that at the casinos in Iowa. If they do, we are in trouble. And then Valentine's Weekend, Springfield, Missouri. Mary Resinsky would be with me there February 20th in Chicago at the City Winery. February 21st, St. Louis at the City Winery. Just so much to come see me, so please do. And John will be with me on all the ones in Washington, probably in Springfield 2. And probably the first Iowa show. But we'll see anyway. Hi, guys. Let's Talk about the 12 Days of Christmas by Debbie Maker.

[B]

She's. She's from. She's from Port Orchard, Washington.

[A]

Oh, she is.

[B]

Obviously why it took. Well, at least that's. But she. At the start of the book, she gives her mailing address if you want to mail or anything at the start of the. What they call audible. And she said this book was based on her going to the mall at Christmas one year and someone cutting her off and taking her parking spot.

[A]

Oh, that's really funny. Huge.

[B]

At the huge mall in Port Orchard, Washington.

[A]

Wait, so someone cut her off and took her parking spot and she decided that. And that gave her the inspiration.

[B]

That gave her the inspiration for the whole Book. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Oh, that is so funny. That gives me inspiration to lay on my horn and give somebody the finger.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, that might inspire them to be better, right?

[A]

Well, sometimes you have to do what you have to do. That's interesting.

[B]

Yeah. It's funny how this whole book. This whole book starts because Julia goes. She has, like, a job interview, and they're like, oh, we're basically going to make you compete for two weeks to get this social media job for this company that's basically the teller in the thing. And I was like, if I do a job interview and someone tells me I have to compete for the next two weeks for this job, I'd be like, fuck you. And I was like, wait, that's literally. Was my job description for 19 years. It's literally what I did every single summer for 19 years is compete my ass off against one other person for the same job.

[A]

Oh, that's.

[B]

Wait a minute.

[A]

Really funny. Yeah, that's right. And it's basically what I do for a living, too. Not on the comedian side, but on the acting side. So go to do an audition and then. And be up against. Pit up against other people and find out a couple weeks later if you got it. That is really funny. So she's from Washington. Okay. So. Because there was a little bit of me wondering if she was English or. I don't know, just because, like, a little bit of her language, the way she talks, like. But maybe it's just her writing style. But when she says, like, I was awarded the position and things like that.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know, Julia, when she gets the job, she says she was awarded the position, I. She kind of makes. Maybe she just makes Julia be sort of annoying.

[B]

Maybe. But I also think that she's. I'm not 100% sure, but she seems to me like she's kind of. I'm guessing, like in her 60s, whereas maybe like the generation before, like, the baby boomers kind of talk like that.

[A]

Right.

[B]

A little bit more, too.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. No, I don't have a problem with it. I just found it just like, stuck out to me a little. A little bit of her sort of like. But her style, which I liked. It was very. I felt like the book was written very much like I was watching. Reading a Hallmark movie script. Yeah, right. And I'm sure that's what. I feel like that's what she was going for. And, you know, and we like those. They're like a nice, warm hug. I. I am an. I think people know that. So I found more Of a cane.

[B]

You're more of a cane than a Julia.

[A]

Well, I'm not a cane because I'm not a scrooge. I wouldn't tell someone that they're chattering again on an elevator. Someone that I barely knew, a neighbor. I wouldn't say that to them. I would just. I would probably just do my best to avoid eye contact, put in my headphones, do whatever I do. But I. I don't think. I mean, maybe, like a really good friend, I might be like, hey, you haven't stopped talking for 35 minutes. But I wouldn't be rude like he was. But I wouldn't be annoying like Julia was. But she did at the end of the book, sort of come, come clean and say that she realized she overdid it a little bit in. In order to get back at him. Like, get on his nerves because he was being rude.

[B]

Yeah, I guess so. So hold on. So. So I just want to ask these questions. So the whole idea is, like, she's going to do this thing. She's going to, like, kill him with kindness as part of her project for 12 days, and she's going to blog about it.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Which is. Do people still blog?

[A]

Actually, they do. They do. Okay. People still.

[B]

So my question is, like, is it still like, she's trying to do a good deed by being nice to Kane?

[A]

Kane.

[B]

Yeah. But is it still a good deed if someone just is trying to do it for themselves?

[A]

Oh, like. Like, right. She's doing it to get this job.

[B]

I'm a good person. I'm doing this to make him enjoy the holidays and get in the Christmas spirit, but I'm really the one reaping all the benefits. So is it still a good deed? Wow.

[A]

Well, well, John Ryan, you started this off already, making me think. I. That's a good question. I mean, is it. I don't know. I think. Could a good deed sometimes be something that benefits both people? Sure. So it's not a selfless deed, but it can still be a good deed. But to your point, she isn't necessarily do. She's not. Would she be trying to kill him with kindness and be kind to him if there was no blog and if there was no job to be awarded the position to?

[B]

There's this theory in psychology, because I took psychology in college, people, and my dad was a psychologist, that everything you do is to make yourself feel better. Like, you're like, oh, that guy's such a nice person, he donates all this money to charity. Or she donates all this time to whatever. Where in fact they're really doing it deep down because it's making them feel better.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It's a very depressed. It's very depressing when you dig into it. It's like, oh, that guy ran into a building to save a child. The psychology behind it is he did it to make himself look better and feel better about himself.

[A]

Yeah, but he could die doing it, so.

[B]

I know, I know, but I'm just saying that's the theory. That's a theory in psychology. And it's really, really depressed the hell out of me. When I learned about it, I was like, this. This can't be it.

[A]

I feel like it can't be. I feel like it can be often. Sometimes it can be it, but I don't think that anyone would, like, flip over a car and. And pull a stranger out of it just to make themselves look better.

[B]

It might be, but that's the psychology behind it.

[A]

That's crazy. I mean, I think it could be. I think. I think in a way that psychology can be. Can be reworded. I mean, I'm not a. You know, I'm not that this isn't a professional podcast or something, and I'm not denying people have studied, but I think in a way it could be like, oh, I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I watch this person die. Therefore, in a way, if you wanted to twist it that way and say it was also for them. But I don't think it's.

[B]

I don't believe in it. Because to believe in it depresses the hell out of me that every time someone does something good, it's. It's just for their own good. That. That's really depressing.

[A]

Yeah. Because you know what? It is depressing. And I don't. I don't. I don't believe that either. But I think, like, you know, sometimes when people donate or something. I'll use Taylor Swift as an example. Just because she comes to mind as someone who gets criticized no matter what she does. Does for something. Like if she. She. It comes out that she donates or, you know, to all her truckers and all this stuff, and then it's like. Or. And then it's not enough. And then it. And then it comes out that. Or they. They have. Someone has a video of her giving money to, you know, people working at the Chief Stadium, but she's not filming it and her people aren't filming it. Someone else doing it. But so. But no matter what, it's like well, she wouldn't let it get out if it was just like, for her to be selfless or something. And it's like. Well, sometimes there was. There was one. There was a GoFundMe, I think that was like a. I read this, and this is. I'm talking about for everybody. I'm just using her as an example because it comes to mind because I saw this GoFundMe that a family had for their child, and their child was a big swifty. And so Taylor either heard about it, was tagged about it, her friend, whatever. So she goes on there and she donates, like, way over what they asked.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then people start s. And then so it comes out in the news, and then people start saying, why would she do that? Just for the attention, blah, blah, blah. Like, hey, she. She just. She just say they. She just met all the medical needs of this child. And then the. The reason it was found out about was because the woman told the. Told her local news, so it wasn't right. But also, no matter what, to me. Yeah. Does it seem weird to be like, I just donated? No, I actually don't think it is weird because it actually inspires other people to do it. So I think it can be two things where you're. You're saying, listen, I donate to the Stray Cat alliance because they. This is what they do. And if you're interested in how you know this form of help for cats because you like, then this is a great place to donate to. Like, it just helps. It's all. Nothing should ever be shit on when it's a donation.

[B]

No. And. And also, I will say this about myself whenever I donate to GoFundMe or to, like, one of my. My friends, kids for something, and they're like, would you like to make this anonymous donation? I'm like, absolutely. The fuck no. I want my name plastered on that thing. I want. I want. I want them to know exactly how much I care for their kid. Okay. Because I care for them. $100 worth, usually. And here's another one. When I played on the Seahawks, there was a player that used to go to the children's hospital every month. It was Russell. Russell Williston. Every Monday or every Tuesday, I think it's Tuesday. Every single day off. He went to the children's hospital. And at first I'm like, okay, you go to the children's hospital, great. But why do you have to take a camera crew? Every time you go, you have to take a camera crew. At first it kind of was like, okay, like, okay. And then I was like, well, no, it's bringing awareness.

[A]

Yes, exactly.

[B]

You know, I mean, like, him bringing a camera clue isn't necessarily for his own, like, oh, look at me, what I'm doing. It's like, let's, like, get behind this. Like, look what I'm doing. You guys need to help out. You guys need to do the same.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I kind of. I. That. That kind of taught me how to. When that happened, I was like, no, he's like, he's doing good. Not for himself, but for. To, like, bring awareness.

[A]

Yes. And you know who really wants.

[B]

Good job, Russ.

[A]

Yeah. And you know who really wants him to have it recorded is the children's hospital. Because it brings so much attention to them. People are like, oh, I love that. Cause I love Russell Wilson. What a great idea. Like, the, you know, people. A lot of these. These charities don't want you to be anonymous. They want you to scream the. The name of their charity at the top of. Of your lungs. Right. So anyway. But yes, it was a random.

[B]

I don't know where that came from.

[A]

Well, it came from you asking if a good deed can be selfless. Benefits from it. And yeah, I think. Look, I think. Do we know that she. She didn't handle it great after falling in love and didn't tell him right away. And Kane had to hear, you know, we don't go in order. We just talk about our.

[B]

No, we talk about whatever, though.

[A]

Yeah. So. But to that point, the way he found out that she did the blog after they fell in love, a reporter hunting her down. I mean, you couldn't be more like Lifetime silly movie ridiculous.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I, as the. As the murder reader of the group psycho reader of the book of the. Of the couple that is, you know, I had a few eye rolls. Okay. I enjoyed the book thoroughly. But the little, you know, sliver of my heart that is Ebenezer was a little bit eye rolly.

[B]

Okay, well, okay. I get it, babe. That it's the hallmarky type book. That's what I was trying to pick for Christmas. I know.

[A]

And you did.

[B]

Okay. Julia, she's. She's very kind, does all this stuff.

[A]

Yeah, she's.

[B]

She's very annoying.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Okay. You know, this is. Right off the bat, one of the first things she did that really annoyed me was this. She goes and she buys.

[A]

I'm just so glad that you found her annoying, too, because I was like, she. Thank you. Go ahead.

[B]

She goes to the Starbucks and buys Starbucks, who sees thousands of customers today. She Buys a gift card for the, for Phil the barista in the morning to give to Cain the next day to buy his coffee.

[A]

Right?

[B]

And as it goes on, she's like some. She confronts Kane later and says, like, why didn't you take the coffee from Phil? And he goes, who's Phil? She's like, oh my God, the barista at the local Starbucks. You don't know Phil. Oh my. Like, she's like, she's just like, oh my. This. How do you not know? You get a coffee every morning from this guy and you don't know, like, who knows their local barista's name? Like, I know all our local bartenders, but that's how I sit there for two to three hours every afternoon with them. I don't just pick up a coffee, one of a thousand people every morning, maybe more, and think that they're going to know each other. That one, the first thing she did annoyed me. I'm like that. She like, she, oh, this guy is such a prick. He doesn't know Phil.

[A]

Yeah. And because like, it is a Starbucks. It's not like a mom and pop shop where it's like, oh yeah, I know. It's this. And I'm not saying you can't know the person's name at Starbucks by any means, but not everybody.

[B]

Someone else does.

[A]

Right, exactly, exactly. That's the point. And, and, and listen, you know, she chats it up with Phil and people.

[B]

Are trying, oh, you know what? Work chats it up when there's 20,000 other people behind her in line trying to get the fucking work by 8 o'. Clock. It's 7:55. Phil, what's happening? What you do last night? How's your mom? Phil? Phil, did you ever go out with that girl Melissa? Isn't she cool? Oh my God, tell me about her. Shut the up, Julian. Move on. I don't got time for this. I want my double macchio latte blah, blah blah, and go to work.

[A]

Is that so true? I, I was thinking about Judd Kirkman when I was reading that, because French Kirkman, she. Oh, the way she used to come in just hot at Chelsea lately and just be like in the writers room and she's like talking about the people that are chatting it up. Or she would get so irritated when someone had like their kids at like, like, you know, 7am at the Starbucks and ordering them all these things before they go to work school. And she's like, they don't need a this and this before they go to school. I need my Adult coffee before I go to work.

[B]

Four cake pops. Oh, and what. What do you want, Melissa? Melissa, what do you. What? What do you want? You want venti aventi? No, hold on. Melissa.

[A]

What?

[B]

But you. No, you don't want a cake pop. You don't. You do the chocolate. Shut the up and move along. I hate it.

[A]

Oh, we're fine.

[B]

But Jen Kirkman is that all time ranter. She can really rant.

[A]

She could rant.

[B]

It's love that about her.

[A]

Yes. So, Julia, listen, there's a. Overall. Here's what's interesting about the way it was written, which I like, is that Kane, you know, listen, he says things like, stop your chatter. You're chattering again. He turns down the Starbucks, which is a little bit ridiculous. Right. Just take it and just say thank you. He definitely is the Scrooge thing. I would, I would probably pound on someone's door for like playing music too loud or singing too loud in an apartment, but I wouldn't. I probably not. Like one time when they were singing Christmas songs, right? I would, I would say, all right, everyone's having their. It's Christmas, she's decorating whatever she's doing. If it's a constant thing, then you go banging. So. Yeah. Does he come across as aggressive and kind of an a hole? But he gets sweet pretty fast.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah, he comes around.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't have. I don't have many friends, but once you're my friend, you're my friend for life. Usually people like that are hard to get through to, but then when you're through to them, they're like, loyal, right?

[A]

Yes. And he, he is, you know, like, right. He take, he listen, he takes care of his grandpa. I mean, he put him in the. The place to. So they could care for him because he knew he needed it. He took his Irish setter for him because he knew that his grandpa wouldn't go into this home without somebody being able to take care of his dog. All the things this guy, he's a good guy with a good heart. Listen, does he mess up a couple times? Does he. Does he accuse her of stalking him when all she's doing is playing piano for old people? Yes. Does he admit his mistake pretty quickly? Yes. But it is, you know, she. She comes in hot, but she breaks him down pretty quickly. So it's almost like he's got this thing of enjoying being annoyed a little bit.

[B]

Yeah, he, like, some people like to be like the moody people.

[A]

Yeah. Like he kind of.

[B]

By the end of my career in Football. That was. That was me. I was kind of the moody. The moody guy. Just because I was, like, old and grizzled. Yeah, he leans. He leans into it. Okay, hold on. You know what another annoying thing that Julia does? And because I know this person is they go to what we think was probably canlist, the restaurant, the nice restaurant, and they sit down, and his buddy, who owns the restaurant or runs the restaurant named Tom, comes up and gives him a bit of a hard time, like, teasing him, joking. She's like, how dare you? Kane is a decent man. He just brought me a scarf when I was working at the Red Bucket Brigade, made. How dare. It's like, girl. Like, we're just friends. Like, calm down.

[A]

Oh. And she's like, it. It took me a minute to figure out that he was a bit of a tease.

[B]

Julia, you stick in the mud.

[A]

That's what I'm talking about with her, like, writing style. She's like, he's a bit of a tease. And. And also, that's funny because that. When you were talking about that when. That moment when she kind of. When she gets to know him and. And he. They're not. They have. They kiss after that for the first time, right? Yeah. So they haven't made out yet. I mean, it's clear they're on a date. She even says something about, like, you know, are you asking me on a date? Whatever it is. But it's clear they're on a date, and he's kind of showing her off. And then the friend gets involved, but then immediately she's like. He said something about his friend Tom and meeting him, and he. She's like, that's how I feel about Cammie. I can't wait for you to get to meet her. And I'm like, pump the brakes, Julia.

[B]

You're.

[A]

You're like, you know, you're. You haven't even quite broke. You don't even know, really if you've broken him down yet, but you think you have, and you're pretty sure he's being nice and you're blogging about it, but, like, all right, now you're like, I can't wait for you to meet my friends and my family. They're a bit of a tease, too.

[B]

Oh. Just had to bring her a scarf at the freaking Red Bucket Brigade, and she was all in.

[A]

She was all in. The Red Bucket Brigade is like the Salvation army, right?

[B]

Yeah. I believe that's what they were trying to.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Debbie May Comber was trying to refer.

[A]

To the other thing with like the way, the way Julia talks was when. When her, her friend Jeremy and Kane are like basically having a d measuring contest over who's gonna walk her home. And.

[B]

Oh yeah.

[A]

And they kind of in a stare off or whatever and he's like, no chance. You're walking her home. And she's like, boys, stop it.

[B]

Here, here. Here's my thing about that. So they're like basically, basically fighting over who's gonna walk her home. Like they're basically fighting over. And in movies and I think even maybe in real life, women always act like how, no, I'm not an object. Don't fight over me. Where it's like in real life when, when women are being honest, they're like, yeah, I like this. I like this a lot.

[A]

Yeah, be honest. Fight for us.

[B]

Yeah. It's like, oh my God, I am not an object. Don't fight for me. No, no.

[A]

Yeah. Kind of nice, kind of hot. We like it a little bit. Well, we, you know, this, the book, it's a formula. It's great, it's sweet, it's fun. We like, we like that he softens that she wins him over. We want her to tell him about the blog so he doesn't get mad at her. But then we wouldn't have a good ending. We need that, right? So, you know, you need the drama. And of course he's upset when he finds out. And she's gotten close with her grandpa who ditched him real quick to go to Christmas dinner, by the way.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He seems real quick. Frick her chocolate chip cookies and a frickin turkey leg. And he's done grandkid out Grant.

[A]

He's like, oh, I know that you're completely alone on Christmas Eve, but I go to Julia's like, f. You know, I think I had brunch with him instead. Don't worry about it. I'm just going to leave him alone the rest of the day and listen, does his grandpa. The point is his grandpa's hoping that he'll come around and.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you know, of course, eventually he comes over and knocks on the door and he's very mad that grandpa's over there. We're just jumping around here. Right. But. And then of course, you know, grandpa has a. Has a. Has an emo. Has a. What do you call it? A moment. Yeah, A health scare.

[B]

What? It's what old people do.

[A]

He has a health scare and it takes that for. Oh, John, can you pause the iRobot vacuum?

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Start up again. I'm not even going to bother to clip this to edit it.

[B]

No, you can just let it go.

[A]

Just see what it's like for us to multitask at home. Try to run the iRobot.

[B]

And.

[A]

I just heard it running. Sorry. Anyway, back to things. So what was I talking about? Oh, yeah. So the grandpa has a health scare. They have to take him to the hospital. She. He doesn't. Kane doesn't argue. He understands that Julia wants to go with him. I mean, he's not a. Right. He's. He's not. He wasn't. He wasn't going to join them for dinner. He was irritated that he was there, but he's not like a prick when it comes to the fact that he's not going to go, oh, you can't come. It's my grandpa. Whatever. He immediately is like, yeah, come with me. They just don't talk on the way there. They get there, you know, he. You know, he understands that she cares. She. He. He lets her be there, whatever. And then. And then. But that's when he. Immediate. I mean, he. He softens pretty quick at the hospital.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Right. And he really does holds her hand, lets her know that, like, it's okay.

[B]

What. What. What. What was the reason that all of a sudden he softened? What? He was just, like, banging on her door a few minutes before.

[A]

Well, this. That's what I. That's what I was. That's what I was kind of curious about. Your thoughts about. I wonder if we were supposed to assume that when he came banging over, eventually he was gonna, you know, say, like, whatever. I'm just. I'm actually. I actually forgive you. All's good, you know, like. Because he's like, don't trust her and saying all this stuff to his grandpa and kind of being cold. But. But so. So I'm curious. Was he gonna soften all along? Was he coming over to sort of, like, put on a show and then be like, whatever, I'm having dinner with you guys and I forget of you kind of thing.

[B]

He was like, I read. I read the blog, and like, I'm fine with it, basically, is what he.

[A]

Yeah, right. Because he had already read it when he went to her house and was acting like that. So. So that was my question. Was he. Was. Was he going over there to sort of f. With her a little bit. Right. River. A little bit make her sweat and then be like, whatever, I read your blog. And I'm over. And I'm. And I'm, okay, let's all sit down and Have Christmas dinner together? Or was it the health scare of his grandpa that made him go, all right, just soften up?

[B]

Or. Or was it two separate things where he was going over there because he was mad that she brought the gr. That she brought Bernie over instead of like, him going with him? So was he kind of mad at both them? And the separate thing is like, oh, but if we can get past that. I'm fine with the blog thing.

[A]

Right. I don't know. I'm curious what you listeners think about that.

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

I think it's just because it's basically a Hallmark movie that it had to have a little ups and downs.

[B]

Do you think he was justified being so upset when she first told him about the blog? Because, like, he did say, like he. People always says, like, because of past relationships. I have, I've been hurt before, so now my guards up. I understand that to a certain extent, but I feel like sometimes, like past relationships almost factor too much into people's lives. Okay. Like, I hear people say all the time, like, I just, I can't find a good guy. Oh, I can't. I. All these guys are pricks. All the guys in the world are pricks. I'm like, your last four boyfriends had a grand total of nine neck tattoos. What did you think was going to happen?

[A]

Not all neck tattoo guys are mean.

[B]

John and four face fat tattoos. I'm just saying sometimes people, male and female, be like, all, all girls suck. My last three girlfriends have sucked. That's three out of 3.5 billion.

[A]

Right. And it's because you keep going for a certain type. A person that is unavailable or a person that like cheats is a cheater or this and that. Usually, usually when it's like.

[B]

But understand, like, he had this relationship.

[A]

With a girl just for your money or whatever it is. Right?

[B]

So they had a relationship with the girl at work who stung them because she was just like a corporate climber and she was using him to get ahead in her in their workplace and kind of broke up with them right after she got her job, whatever. So now he's like on the lookout for that and now he thinks that she's using him for this blog.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So is it, is it justified because of his past?

[A]

Okay, so in that instance, because it was a little bit like, oh, I've been hurt before, whatever. But like you said, so this woman did use him specifically in the, in the job world, right?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So for him to be triggered by Julia using him in the job world, I think is fair. And I think it's fair for him to be upset about it because she didn't come forward. Because if. Because the Julia that we know who works at the Boys and Girls Club and donates her time at the Manor House and you know, and all these things is, you know, is even like, helpful at Macy's. But even when Kane the. Comes in and all this stuff, like, we. She in that world, like, even though she. We know that she's scared to tell him because she's going to hurt his feelings, she. We know that there's no way she's never going to tell him. I mean, first of all, she can't stop talking. And second. And second, eventually she's like, she's going to feel too guilty. So of course she should tell him right away. So the Julia that's we. We read about would normally come. You would think she would come clean right away, but now she's like, fallen for him, so she's too scared to lose him, so she makes the wrong decision. And that wrong decision is something he has been burned by before in a. In a way. So in that sense, I think it's fair. I, for the most part, I agree with you. I think that people go, oh, I'm. I'm guarded and it's just hard to break my walls down. And I'm this and I'm that. And it's like, well, start choosing, you know, not. Not, you know, certain instances, of course, can make you do that. Like, so in that, like, if I. If when you and I had started dating, if you had, you know, had some kind of, like, secret messages going on or something that I found out about, I would have probably broken up with you because I'd had that done to me before. And I. And so I. There are certain things where I think you go. I don't deal with these red flags from people. Right. But now you obviously didn't do that because I didn't go to someone else like that. I found someone that I trusted ultimately completely. So anyway, long answer is I think it was okay for him to be upset about it.

[B]

But I think as well, though, I think that everyone, like, meets in different ways and this was just their way of meeting. Like, I never thought I'd meet someone that I saw on TV and marry her.

[A]

Right. But I did right now.

[B]

So I just think that that's just part of their story. But I. I understand what you're saying too.

[A]

It is part of their story. But at the same time, he found out about it. He was upset. And I mean, listen, she started this blog 12 days before Christmas. The. The. The. The event with her, with the grandpa and. And Kane being upset. Happens on Christmas. So all this happened in 12 days. I mean, he forgave.

[B]

Busy 12 days for these kids.

[A]

It was. It was. Well, that's the part that kind of. Kind of threw me. I was like, oh, yeah, this is all 12 days. Like, even when he was mad at her, what was it for? Like a day, 12 hours. They both.

[B]

They both had a terrible flu and got over it in those 12 days.

[A]

That's right. Yeah. They both.

[B]

They said that that's when they kind of, like, started to fall for each other when they were sick. And I've heard a lot of people say this before, a matter of, like, we were just at a wedding in Austria that Reverend Ryan officiated, and when I kind of gave them, like, a whole questionnaire about a bunch of stuff, like, when they started falling in love. And I think you and I kind of knew all the answers. We'd kind of been there since, like, day one of the relationship, but I wanted, like, more from their words. And one of the things they both said is they started to fall in love each other when she was sick, and he, like, took care of her.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I hear a lot of people say that. And I was like, for you and I, like, since we've been together, like, you would have had to take, like, five or six years before you knew you love me. Because we never get sick.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

I think alcohol kills all, like, the bad bacteria in our stomach or something. I've been. Since we've been together, I've been really sick twice. And one was when I was in Mexico and you weren't there, and I was the sickest I've ever been in my entire life.

[A]

And tell everybody why. Well, tell everybody what you did, John.

[B]

I got there, all the guys are down on the beach. I see a woman walking down the beach. This wasn't, like, in the tourist area because we were there for baseball. So we're kind of like, a little bit away from the tourist area. I see a woman walking down the beach with in my head, a bag of fresh oysters, okay? So I'm like, wow, cheap seafood, fresh oysters. I'm going to go get a plate of those. So I gave her five bucks, gave me a big old plate of oysters. I'm walking outside.

[A]

What was the temperature outside? What was the temperature?

[B]

About 85 to 90 degrees. I'm eating these warm Oysters. I'm just like, the. Like, jackpot. And they're like, john, what the are you doing? Like, you're eating oysters from a woman that's been carrying them in a sack the entire day for hours.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

On a beach that's 90 degrees. I'm like, yeah. I'm like, cheap seafood. No, I was sick. Like, I thought I was gonna die. I literally. I had mono when I was 17 years old, I had mono. And at one point, I didn't eat or drink anything for five days. I had to go to the hospital to get, like, intravenous and get like. My mother. My mom thought I was gonna die. Yeah, she thought I was gonna die. I'd rather have mono for the rest of my life than have that for 24 hours again. What I had in Mexico, it was, like, awful.

[A]

It was bad.

[B]

Human can get.

[A]

You got, like, decent enough, you were able to come home. Yeah. And it was.

[B]

It was 24 hours of, like, hell. And then it was. It still wasn't great after that.

[A]

Right? It wasn't great after that, but it wasn't anything, like, contagious. It was just like, no. No flipping warm oysters. So then he gets on a plane, whatever. 20, 36 hours later, comes home. He's still not feeling well. And then we didn't see each other. I mean, I. He went into the guest room, and I would just knock and be like, are you okay? And he's like, yeah.

[B]

Also. Also, when I got home, I had a. I had a fever of, like, 103 or something. Like, I had a fever. This is, like, right around, like, the edge of COVID So I was like, I'm going to stay on this wing of the house, this little area of the house, and do not come over here.

[A]

Oh, that's right. You came home. You still didn't feel well in your stomach. But then. And then a fever hit or something. And then we started to wonder if it was also. Yeah. Then we wondered if it was Covid. But anyway, it wasn't, luckily, because we kept testing. But then it was. He was just like. No, it was just. The oysters really lingered, I guess.

[B]

I guess I kind of counted those as, like, two sicknesses is really just one, but, like, one. I was, like, away from you. So I'm saying, like, when I am sick, I don't want anyone to take care of me. I don't want anyone around me. I just want us basically, like. Like, leave me alone. I'm fine. I don't need anyone, like, because so Many times women are always like, men are like such pussies when they freaking s. It's so annoying. And I hate that. Like, just the idea of being like a pussy and like having like my wife wait on me is just like, makes me turned off by my. On myself.

[A]

But see, I don't. Because you're not like that. I want to take care of you. I do. I'm always like, oh, let me like, what can I do? And you're just like, get away from me. But I'm kind of the same way. Like, I think it's because we were, you know, took care of, lived by ourselves and took care of ourselves for so long. You're just used to being like. You just sweat it out. What? Like, I'm like, it's a. I mean, it doesn't feel good, but the couple times I've been sick in these past few years. Whatever. Like you said, we just. We. We have a good immune system. You have to. I think it's a lot. A lot of. We do a lot of sweating because of our. Because we're sweating people when we work out. And I swear that, I mean, we.

[B]

Both work out two hours a day for five days a week. Which. That. I think that helps more than anything. Working out to, you know, you're sweating it all out and being hydrated all the time because you're.

[A]

Yeah. But anyway, we, you know, we're just lucky. Like, listen. And now we're probably going to get both. Get struck with something terrible.

[B]

Yeah, we're definitely getting sick this weekend. We're going to a wedding right now. We're going to get freaking something bad.

[A]

We're going to get something and then we're going to be like, unable to record next week. Sorry, we're really laid up sick. But I like so. Because the interesting thing is she. He's immediately pretty recept. He's like, oh, go leave me alone. But then he's really receptive to being helped, it seems. Right. Like, he's not.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

She's actually more wants to be left alone when she's sick. And I think it's because she's by herself.

[B]

When she's sick. She does something that I think some people be like, oh, women always do that. No, people always do this when she's sick. She's like, get me a scale. He's like, what? She's like, get me a scale. And don't fudgeing. Look, I need to weigh myself. See how much I lost?

[A]

I know everyone's funny. Every.

[B]

Everyone does that when they're sick, right? Like everybody that.

[A]

Yeah, I guess. So you're like, I want to say she's like five pounds. And he's like, you weigh five pounds.

[B]

It's. It's so funny because everyone does that when they get sick. And everyone. I think deep down we all know that tomorrow we're just gonna have like three Gatorades and four glass of water and gain it all back. Like, not like we just lost five pounds of fat overnight. We just lost hydration.

[A]

It was funny, but I. I would. It's more something I would do. Like, I wouldn't let anyone know and I wouldn't ask who's scale. I would just sneak on and then like high five myself and be like, yeah, cool, whatever. You laid in bed all day yesterday and you still lost five pounds.

[B]

I thought something she talks about, it's something that we all do when we're sick.

[A]

Yeah, 100%. And yeah, that's funny. Yeah. She. Oh, and she wants her. She. Oh, she. When she goes to the. The deli when he's sick. Because she's like, there's a couple times where she's like, oh, I'm still full from lunch. I'm just gonna boil myself a couple eggs later. I'm like, this girl needs to eat better. But yeah. And then because she goes to the deli where of course, everyone knows her name.

[B]

Yeah. Oh, yeah, I know. That annoyed me too. She watches.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh, Julia, where you been? It's been 12 hours. Where you been? Where's. Do you want a pastrami? You're normal. You're regular pastrami, extra pickle. Julia.

[A]

I mean, we should. I mean, they do know our. Listen, we know all the names of the people that work at Tipsy Cow and Bouvet, but you're right, it is because you sit at the bar, whatever. But we're just being annoyed because we're. It's Julia. So. So she goes in there, but then she ends up just getting him soup, right? Yeah, she gets in the soup and all I could think of was, you know, everyone wants chicken soup when they're sick and oh boy, I'm the same way.

[B]

But you want dry powdered soup.

[A]

Dry powdered soup. It's the Lipton chicken, not. Not the chicken noodle. Because in the chicken noodle packet, I just want this to be clear. It's got little weird hunks of like dried, freeze dried chicken something.

[B]

Is that real chicken, do you think?

[A]

It is, but I don't know how it's like, yeah, I don't. I mean, it's real chicken in a way, but it's like. Yeah, it's like, I can't do that. Right. Okay. I'm not a monster. Forgive. Okay. I'm a little bit of a monster, though, because. Just the noodle one, but with, like, chicken broth and. Listen, I just. You gotta just. Just go with me here. I don't know what. I grew up in the South. I don't know what it is, but that soup, like, I. I want to be sick so that I can eat it, because it. I feel. Yeah, I think. I swear to God, I. I. Every time I've ever had it, I feel better immediately. And I. It has some kind of healing effect or. Or I'm just. You know, it's just a mental thing. But I love that soup. It's got so much sodium in it that if you did lose any weight while you were sick, you'll gain it right back with one bite of that soup. But it tastes so good. And you give me that and a saltine cracker, and I'm. I'm. I'm. It. I mean, I'll. I'll spread my legs.

[B]

I. I would. Stupid. I would say that I had Lipton's soup, the stuff that you're talking about, at least once a week. My entire childhood, until I was 18 years old. It was a real staple in the Ryan household.

[A]

Oh, I don't feel like you ever told me that. I thought you let me set my own. Shame about that.

[B]

No, no, no, that's. That. That's. Oh, I still did that, but it was a real. A real staple in the Ryan household.

[A]

Well, why do you act like I'm weird for loving it then?

[B]

Because I'm a grown woman, and now we can afford better soup.

[A]

It's. There isn't better soup, though. That's the thing. And apparently not better. There's not better. Even when I get that, like, homemade chicken noodle soup at. At Gelson's or at Pavilion, it's pretty good.

[B]

Pretty good.

[A]

It's pretty good. There's this, and it's like, I'll. Sometimes I'll get that when John's out of town. A quick meal, whatever for dinner. Listen, I mean, we eat healthy most of the time. Don't worry. But when. Even when I get that, I'm like. It's not as good as the dried little packet of soup that I just, like. I just watch it boil impatiently, and I don't even put that much water because I want it to be really. I want it to be real flavorful. Yeah, yeah. And I want those noodles. And then I take the saltine cracker and I scoop up the noodles and I. And use them as like a, like the saltines. Like my spoon.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

There's a, there's a packet of it in the, in the pantry right now. I think I know what I'm having for dinner.

[B]

We're going to a wedding. I hope they have. I, I think I probably ordered the prime rib. No, the short rib. Pine. Short rib.

[A]

Short rib.

[B]

Yeah, it was a rib of some sort of.

[A]

Anyway, sorry. Super.

[B]

They, we never talked about. They didn't really talk about that much about how Cain was an actuary.

[A]

Right. What is that?

[B]

A fucking actuary makes like $500 an hour. They're like crazy. They can, they can. They're basically. It's a math based thing and they can. They work for usually insurance companies and they can basically be like Sarah Colonna, you're gonna die. They know exactly when you're gonna die. Oh, like not, not, not you exactly. They line up, they can line up a thousand people with all the same stats, the same level of education, smoking habits, drinking habits, everything. And they know exactly out of those, the, the average day that those thousand people are going to die on. So it's big for insurance companies. They know basically know how long you're going to be alive for. Ew.

[A]

I don't like that.

[B]

Yeah, it's crazy.

[A]

Yeah, well, so. And they make a lot of money.

[B]

They make a lot of money because they can like tell these insur. They can make these insurance companies money because they know how much to charge everybody when they're gonna die.

[A]

Why do we feel like he's living in an apartment instead of invested in a home? I mean, I'm not shaming that. I'm not shaming that.

[B]

Pretty young. He's still pretty.

[A]

Right?

[B]

And, and there's some pretty nice downtown apartments in Seattle.

[A]

No, there are, but we know that she works at Macy's, so she probably doesn't. I'm just saying, like, their, their incomes must be very different. She gets her dream job at the end. We're happy. You know, she. Listen.

[B]

Right, right. She, she's making like minimum wage something, and he's probably making half a million dollars a year and they're living in the same building is what.

[A]

Right. Yes. And I, and, and listen, maybe he's just one of those, like, I, I didn't know I had money to, to buy a house before I met you, but I was in a condo because it was like. I was like, I don't. I'm not ready, so. And I was probably older than Kane was, so I get it. I'm not shaming, and I'm just talking about it.

[B]

I now have Debbie Maycomber's address.

[A]

Okay. That'd be great.

[B]

She gave it at the start. It's actually a P.O. box. So we can actually go to her house and knock on the door and ask.

[A]

She gets. She give you a P.O. box, babe. So you're going in front of her.

[B]

I'll go and sit in front of her P.O. box. Because now I know where it is until she comes and picks up her mail.

[A]

Yes. She gave up PO Box. Just. We're clear. Not a home address.

[B]

Debbie, I'll find you.

[A]

Maybe we could get. Maybe we can meet up with her. We want to do a thing at that bookstore maybe. Yeah, a little combo.

[B]

One other thing about the Macy's thing is there's one, like, brief moment where, like, Kane, like, Job shamed her when she. When he thought she should stay home because she was sick. And she's like. He's basically like, what? No one else can sell the people's sweaters? Or something like that.

[A]

Yeah. That was rude.

[B]

That was. But then he caught himself pretty quick.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

And he apologized. But I thought he was. I thought at that point, I thought he was gonna go down, like, a weird, like.

[A]

Right. Like, tunnel. Yeah.

[B]

He kind of caught himself and brought it back.

[A]

Well, that's what. I think. That's what Debbie McComber had to do with this character is make him Scrooge, but really likable. Right? Like, not an. Just kind of like a.

[B]

Just got a dog in the ground, Buddy takes care of.

[A]

Yeah. He can't be, like. He can't be a rude a hole, because a turnaround in 12 days of somebody just, like, finding. You know, finding themselves as it's like, he was. He's. He's always been a nice guy. He's just not super friendly to strangers. And, yeah, I can relate. So. But, yeah, they. You know, listen, after the. After the grandpa gets sick, we have them. They. We. They cut to the next Christmas. They're married. They got an Irish setter puppy. They got two dogs, and they got two dogs, and grandpa's over there, like, give me the grandkid. Give me the grandkid. I want the grandkid. Bernie wants the grandkid. And. And at one point, he says something's like, I can't remember the exact life.

[B]

But he's like, I know what you're gonna say.

[A]

Yeah. He's like, something wrong with you? She's like, don't worry about him, Bernie. He's just fine.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, boy, you don't know what you're doing. He goes, oh, don't worry, Grandpa Bernie, father in law, Grandpa in law. He knows just what he's doing. I was like, where did this come from?

[A]

It's like. I was like, julia. Oh, it really came out of your shell a little. Like, she changed a little bit too, didn't she?

[B]

Yeah, I guess so.

[A]

I liked, like, I liked the process of having her kind of get excited the more her blog grew and the ridiculousness of a reporter hunting her down. But I. But I liked, you know, because I think a lot of people. I mean, I think like, vlogs are more popular now too, but there's like that whole substack thing. Thing, and those are basically blogs and those are. Those are. Are very popular and people subscribe to them and make money off of them and. But I liked that, you know, as a lot do with. When it's somebody without a name that already, you know, like a substack started by somebody that people don't already know. Because sometimes like these huge authors or comedians or Nate, whatever, start these sub stacks. And so they, of course, it's easier for them, but the process of this girl that works at Macy's that wants to get this job, sort of getting like, oh, my God, I got 10 comments. I've never had 10 comments. And then it. Growing and growing and growing. I liked that sort of trajectory of. Of watching her kind of excitement. And I thought it was cute.

[B]

Yeah, I thought it was fun. I. Overall, I liked. I really like this book. I think we got a wedding to go to, so I'm gonna wrap it up.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I. I really liked it. It's exactly what I wanted. Yes, it's exactly hallmarky. Debbie May Combert, she's written a bunch of Christmas books, I guess, like one a year for a long time. So I'm going to read more of them. And I think I give this book nine and a half beers out of 12. Very happy with it.

[A]

Nine and a half out of 12. I would expect more from you.

[B]

Well, I'm getting like a little, like a little more harsher with my. That's why I like 12 instead of 5. 5 is like either 4 or 5 out of 12. You know, you have some wiggle room, right?

[A]

And I only do I do five drinks, don't I I think I do five martinis. I do five martinis. I'm gonna give her three and a half out of five martinis. I thought it was sweet. It was sweet, fun. Good read, page turner. Quick, quick. Read all those things. You know, a little cheesy for me, but that's what the whole point of us reading different books is. And that's. But I didn't enjoy it. I mean, I did enjoy it. I didn't want my time back.

[B]

Cheesy. This woman. This coming from a woman who loves Lifetime movies. I don't know.

[A]

Yeah, but I wouldn't give him five stars. I'd give them two, but I. But I'd watch the shit out of them.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

No, actually, I probably give them all five. So you're right. Whatever. Listen, but in the Lifetime movies, someone gets murdered, John.

[B]

I know, I know. Yeah, I know. It's just like. It's really like, in the world of, like, made for TV movies, I'm Hallmark. Your lifetime.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

That's. And that's who we are and listeners. Thank you. We had a lot of fun with this one. I love the way we mix it up. And like I said, join us on Patreon for your bonus podcasts and your short story podcast, which we have so much fun with. They're very quick short stories, so it's not like you have to put aside a lot of time to read those. And what else? Oh, yeah, go to Sarah Colona.com for all those dates I mentioned earlier. John, where can they get their Christmas pickles? Baseball and Portland Cherry Bomb.

[B]

Portland Baseball, Portland Bangers fc. Portland Cherry Bombers fc. Cherry. Cherry Bombs fc. Get any of your merch. Just Google any of those teams. And we have the best. The best merch, all made by official league.

[A]

Yeah, Fantastic merch and great Christmas gifts and thank you, guys. And we are reading Christmas Presents by Lisa Unger for December. So talk to you next week.

[B]

Bye.

[A]

The book List.

[B]

The book Lisp.

[A]

The book list.

[B]

The book Lisp.

[A]

The Book Lisp.