The Book Review Podcast: The Sinking of the Edmund Fitzgerald, 50 Years Later

Host: Gilbert Cruz (The New York Times Book Review Editor)
Guest: John U. Bacon (Author of “The Gales of November: The Untold Story of the Edmund Fitzgerald”)
Date: November 7, 2025

Overview

This episode commemorates the 50th anniversary of the sinking of the SS Edmund Fitzgerald, delving into the fateful night, the cultural legacy of the disaster, and most importantly, the untold human stories behind the tragedy. Host Gilbert Cruz welcomes John U. Bacon, whose new book seeks not just to solve the shipwreck’s mystery, but to illuminate the lives of the 29 men lost and the families they left behind. The conversation spans the history and industrial might of the Great Lakes, the circumstances around the disaster, the impact of Gordon Lightfoot’s iconic song, and why the Fitzgerald’s story endures.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Midwestern Memory and Personal Connection

• The Disaster as Local Legend: Bacon describes the pervasive presence of the Fitzgerald story throughout the Midwest, noting, “Eight states border the Great Lakes, and I think everyone has got their own story about it pretty much.” (01:51)
• Personal Recollection: Bacon recalls hearing about the sinking as a sixth grader and observing its imprint on local culture from an early age.

2. Why Write This Book? Humanizing the Legend

• Beyond the Mystery: While previous works focused on unraveling the mystery (“whodunit class”), Bacon’s aim was, “It’s the 29 men. I didn’t know anything about them...that is the untold story of my story at least.” (03:27)
• Accessing Untold Stories: Bacon spoke with six surviving crew (not aboard that fateful night) and half the families—many for the first time ever.

3. A Concise Account of the Disaster

• The ‘Titanic of the Great Lakes’: Launched as the largest, fastest, most famed freighter, the Fitzgerald’s every appearance attracted crowds.
• ‘Perfect Storm’: On November 10, 1975, two converging storms created hurricane-force winds and waves up to 60ft: “this thing is getting swamped by a six story building of water every four to eight seconds. That’s not good.” (05:09)
• Design Limitations: Ultra-long, narrow freighter design was necessary to pass through the Soo Locks, but made the ship vulnerable in rough waters.

4. The Great Lakes, Industry, and American Might

• “Everything on Your Table”: Bacon explains that the industrial boom (steel, lumber, grain, copper) made the region “Silicon Valley before Silicon Valley.” (08:53)
• Toledo’s Surprising Past: At one time larger than cities like Miami or San Jose, Toledo exemplified how the lakes fueled national growth.

5. Perils of the Great Lakes

• More Dangerous than the Ocean?: Commercial sailors told Bacon that the Great Lakes are more hazardous than the Atlantic—waves are closer together, storms are sudden and overhead, and navigation involves constant hazards.

  “For experienced commercial sailors...the Great Lakes are more dangerous than the Atlantic Ocean and it’s not even close.” (10:52)

6. Life and Luxury on the Fitzgerald

• A “Workhorse Palace”: The Fitzgerald boasted carpeted living quarters, wood paneling, air conditioning, TV, and fine food—designed by order of Edmund Fitzgerald himself to be the “greatest ship in the Great Lakes in every way.” (12:57)
• Competitive, High-Pressure Culture: “These guys are basically in the same competitive field as an NFL coach.” (15:27) Minutes could mean hours’ delay and major losses, pressuring captains to push limits even in bad weather.

7. Captain Ernest McSorley: Portrait of a Leader

• Beloved, Not a Tyrant: McSorley, “by all accounts, the best captain on the Great Lakes,” was loved by his crew (“They would follow him from ship to ship as he was promoted.”) (16:46)
• A Last Voyage: Set to retire after the season, he did “one more trip” to earn a bonus for his ill wife’s medical care.

8. What Actually Happened That Night? Theories and Mysteries

• Finding the Ship: Located by sonar “that week” after the wreck (20:42).
• Official Theory vs. Reality: Coast Guard blamed unlatched hatch covers, but Bacon and his sources cast serious doubt, citing eyewitnesses and technical impossibility.
• Multifactorial Disaster: Excessive cargo (overloaded due to looser regulations), possible bottoming out on “Six Fathom Shoal,” hull fatigue from rough seas, and design choices (welded instead of riveted joints) likely combined.

  “In a ship this size...it’s rarely one thing. It’s a series of dominoes...” (24:55)

• A Mother’s Wisdom: “‘Only 30 know—29 men and God. And they’re not talking.’” (25:24) – Ruth Hudson, mother of a lost crew member.

9. Giving Voice to the Families

• Earning Trust: Bacon details the painstaking process of winning over families who had “never talked to a reporter before,” with the help of museum director Bruce Lynn, extensive interviews, and letting families preview their quotes for accuracy. (26:44)
• Catharsis & Legacy: Families appreciated seeing their loved ones fully memorialized; most no longer dwell on the cause but cherish the accurate remembrance provided.

10. Shipwrecks and Enduring Fascination

• Elemental Fear: Cruz and Bacon discuss our morbid captivation with sunken ships. “Water is our friend...and when it turns nasty, it turns nasty fast.” (31:30)
• Family Trauma: Relatives “try to imagine their fathers’ last minutes, dreaming about it for years.”

11. Aftermath and Industry Change

• Regulatory Inertia, Cultural Shift:
  • Laws barely changed, but forecasting and communication improved dramatically.
  • The “machismo of captains” faded; ships now regularly anchor during storms (32:54).
  • “Since November 10, 1975, there have been zero [freighter disasters]. Exactly zero.” (34:10)

12. The Song: Gordon Lightfoot’s ‘The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald’

• Defining the Memory:

  “Without that song, there is no book. Period. That song is everything.” (35:09)

  • It kept the tragedy in public consciousness, embarrassed the industry into safety, and remains a Midwestern anthem.
• Recording Happenstance: The iconic track was cut in a single, unplanned take—“the first time the band had ever played the song.” (36:25)
• Lightfoot’s Relationship with Families:

  “He made it a point to reach out to these people...He also took some of the profits and supported several scholarships in their name at the Great Lakes Maritime Academy. So I have to call him a hero in this story.” (39:56)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the human motivation to tell the story:

  “I didn’t know who they were, their names, even what their jobs were like...I wanted to find all that out. And that is the untold story.” – John U. Bacon (03:03)

• On the scale of the lakes:

  “People out east don’t realize when you’re on one of these lakes, you can’t see across them...it’s not because of the mist...it’s because of the curvature of the Earth.” – John U. Bacon (02:36)

• On the power of the song:

  “For the grandkids who never met their grandfather, this is who he was.” – John U. Bacon (40:33)

• On why the crew was special:

  “He [Captain McSorley] was beloved, and that was very rare...They would follow him from ship to ship as he was promoted.” – John U. Bacon (16:46)

• On the endurance of tragedy:

  “One solace is that almost everyone agrees...that the end happened very quickly.” – John U. Bacon (31:30)

• On what changed after the disaster:

  “Common sense has finally kicked in...There are 6,000 shipwrecks [in the Great Lakes]...since November 10, 1975, there have been zero.” – John U. Bacon (34:10)

Key Timestamps

• [01:51] – The Fitzgerald in Midwest memory; Bacon’s childhood recollection
• [03:27] – The book’s focus: the 29 lost men and their families
• [04:34–06:11] – Breakdown of the disaster’s conditions
• [08:53] – Great Lakes industry’s central role in America
• [10:52] – Why the Great Lakes are more dangerous than the ocean
• [12:57] – Fitzgerald’s luxury and design as an industrial showpiece
• [15:27] – The competitive lives of Great Lakes captains
• [16:46] – Captain Ernest McSorley’s character and last voyage
• [20:42] – Theories about why the ship sank; objections to the official explanation
• [24:55] – Shipwrecks: “series of dominoes” theory
• [26:44] – How Bacon gained the trust of the victims’ families
• [31:30] – Shipwrecks as elemental terror; trauma for families
• [32:54] – Shipping culture, safety, and change after the Fitzgerald
• [35:09] – The crucial impact of Gordon Lightfoot’s song
• [36:25–39:09] – Tales from the song’s recording, Lightfoot’s legacy
• [39:56] – Lightfoot’s active support for victims’ families

Tone and Language

The conversation is warm, engaged, and deeply respectful to the subject matter. Both Cruz and Bacon thread factual analysis and technical detail with personal reflection, anecdote, and moments of wonder at the sheer drama of the lakes and the lives lived—and lost—aboard the Fitzgerald. Bacon is candid, sometimes self-effacing, expansive, and clearly invested in both historical accuracy and human empathy.

Final Thoughts

This episode offers an engrossing journey—part mystery, part memorial—about America’s most legendary shipwreck, why it matters, and how stories endure. Whether or not you know all the verses to Lightfoot’s haunting ballad, you’ll come away caring about the men who sailed the Fitzgerald, their families, and the mythic inland seas they traversed.