Podcast Summary: The Book Review

Episode: What Did 2025 Mean for Books?
Host: MJ Franklin (NYT Book Review Editor)
Guests: Tina Jordan (Deputy Editor, Book Review), John Maher (Book News Editor), Alexandra Alter (Books Reporter)
Date: December 19, 2025

Overview

This episode gathers the editors and writers of The New York Times Book Review to reflect on the literary landscape of 2025—not focusing on top books, but on shifts, trends, news, and the overarching mood in the world of books. The team engages in a candid roundtable dissecting the year’s “vibe,” standout developments, the rise (and challenge) of genres like "romantasy" and fan-driven fiction, changes in nonfiction, and the troubling state of the book industry and media.

Table of Contents

1. Setting the Stage: Vibe Check for 2025
2. Was 2025 “The Lost Year” for Books?
3. Grassroots Hits & the Debut Author Dilemma
4. Book Industry and Publishing Woes
5. Trends: Romantasy, Fanfiction, and Genre Shifts
6. Nonfiction’s Decline & Rise of Comfort Reads
7. Most Notable News Stories & Industry Moments
8. Reasons for Hope: “Tell Me One Good Thing”
9. Notable Quotes

1. Setting the Stage: Vibe Check for 2025 (03:50–04:57)

• MJ Franklin sets the tone, describing 2025 as "exhausting and meh," feeling that the year lacked energy.
  • MJ: "The energy seemed deflated this year. Maybe that's just me, but that's how I felt." ([03:44])
• Tina Jordan agrees, calling it “lackluster.”
  • Tina: "It felt very lackluster somehow." ([03:50])
• Alexandra Alter disagrees, highlighting the high enthusiasm at Romantasy book signings and alternative publishing spaces.
  • Alexandra: "You've never seen more excited people than a midnight release party for a big Romantasy novel..." ([03:56])
• John Maher points out disconnects between industry insiders' perceptions and those of actual readers.

2. Was 2025 “The Lost Year” for Books? (05:30–14:57)

• MJ labels 2025 “the lost year,” citing lack of a major “breakout book” that captivated both critics and the commercial market.
  • "There were big books ... but the two did not seem to meet to me." ([05:39])
• Comparison with past years where titles like 'The Underground Railroad' or 'The Bee Sting' defined the conversation.
• Tina and John contend there were grassroots hits (e.g., The Correspondent by Virginia Evans), but perhaps not in the same monocultural way.
  • Tina: Describes The Correspondent as “grassroots,” propelled by indie booksellers and word-of-mouth. ([06:53]–[08:04])
  • Alexandra: “It became just this phenomenon and now it’s sold hundreds of thousands of copies, which for a debut is astonishing.” ([07:46])
• Debate: Has the book world fragmented too much for a single “It Book” to dominate?
  • John: “We are so far from anything vaguely resembling a monoculture anymore...” ([12:38])
  • MJ: References a similar shift in music and television.

3. Grassroots Hits & the Debut Author Dilemma (06:53–10:47)

• Discussion of how rare true word-of-mouth debuts have become.
  • Alexandra: "It's gotten so hard...People either have an existing platform...already best-selling authors... getting a new author out in front of people...is a huge feat." ([09:05])
• Fan-driven successes referenced, such as Rebecca Yarros, and the unique path from online fandom to publication.
  • John: “Rebecca Yarros, built a grassroots audience herself outside of the book publishing industry first.” ([09:45])
• Fanfiction breaks out as a force in 2025, with online platforms nurturing upcoming authors.

4. Book Industry and Publishing Woes (14:57–20:28)

• John describes 2025 as “a year of losses”—particularly funding cuts for nonprofit publishers, inflation, and growing costs.
  • "Mission driven nonprofit publishers lost federal funding..." ([14:57]–[16:09])
• Tina explains how small presses have stepped in where the Big Five have scaled back risks.
  • "Small independent presses have been picking up the balls where the big five...have dropped them." ([16:09])
• Alexandra notes the ecosystem: small presses cultivate talent, big houses later “pick off” prizewinners.
• John shares concern that cuts to federal arts funding directly impact literary diversity down the line.
  • "If that pipeline gets weakened...it will be something that readers will notice." ([18:23])
• Silver lining: Philanthropic initiative: Mellon Foundation gives $50M to poetry organizations—and others step in to fill gaps. ([19:21])

5. Trends: Romantasy, Fanfiction, and Genre Shifts (20:38–28:40)

• Alexandra dubs 2025 “the year of fan culture infiltrating mainstream publishing,” pointing to the successful transformation of Harry Potter fanfiction into bestsellers.
  • "The arrival of three Harry Potter fanfiction novels transformed into romantasy novels was, I think, a stunning turn ..." ([20:38])
  • Books like 'Alchemize' sold over 700,000 copies in a matter of months. ([22:00])
• Tina expresses concern: Publishers leaning into “giving readers what they want,” rather than seeking originality.
  • "This is vaguely depressing to me because this is publishers just giving readers what they know they want." ([22:39])
• Conversation on the “gatekeeper” debate; consensus that fans have triumphed in determining what is published.
  • John: "Remember the gatekeeper debate? Who won?"
    Alexandra: "The fans won." ([22:53]–[22:57])
• John and Tina sing the praises of small presses as guardians of literary diversity.

6. Nonfiction’s Decline & Rise of Comfort Reads (29:40–34:38)

• Alexandra: Nonfiction is waning (unless you're Mel Robbins). Practical books losing relevance due to AI and internet resources.
  • "People are really exhausted by the news...information ecosystem has kind of morphed in a way that books aren't the go to place always for that ..." ([28:23])
• Tina bemoans the “dearth of really satisfying nonfiction,” especially “meaty” works.
  • "There was just a dearth of really satisfying nonfiction ... Where were the rest of the Marriage at Seas?" ([30:29])
• John: Even passionate editors find “serious nonfiction isn’t selling.” People want reassurance, not “complex journalism.”
  • "I think a lot of it is just like, people are wiped out." ([32:21])
• Alexandra says religious and self-help titles, along with adult coloring books, are surging—suggesting a hunger for comfort, escape, affirmation.

7. Most Notable News Stories & Industry Moments (37:19–44:21)

• The Mr. Beast/James Patterson book collaboration was the year's most “buzzy” celebrity literary event.
  • Tina: "I could not believe how popular..." ([37:20])
  • Alexandra: "He [Patterson] thought maybe he needed some younger readers ... obviously Mr. Beast is a huge YouTube star..." ([38:04])
• Posthumous publications make headlines: Joan Didion’s therapy notes and the Harper Lee story collection raise questions of authorial intent, privacy, and legacy.
  • Alexandra: "We had Joan Didion's therapy notes ... a really strange publication for somebody who curated her public image so carefully." ([39:32])
  • Alexandra: "It gives you real insight into her published writing ... but I think it also made some people in her inner circle a little uncomfortable." ([40:54])
• John laments crisis in books media:
  • Syndicated AI-generated summer reading lists featuring fake books in major newspapers ([41:47])
  • The Associated Press ending national book review syndication—further shrinking avenues for literary criticism.
    • "It felt like a one, two punch..." ([43:36])
• Discussion on the challenge for book reviews to stay relevant as social discovery migrates to BookTok, Goodreads, and Amazon reviews.

8. Reasons for Hope: “Tell Me One Good Thing” (45:36–49:03)

• Alexandra: Authors Karin Desai and Helen DeWitt finally publish long-gestating works, proof that perseverance pays off.
  • "Here's somebody who did nothing else for the last two decades but create this incredible story..." ([45:36])
• John: Recommends Laszlo Krasznahorkai’s newly translated works and their cinematic adaptations.
• Tina: Surprised and happy by the explosion of “cozy genre fiction”—not just romances but cozy mysteries, cozy horror, cozy fantasy.
  • "As an unabashed genre fan, I really loved the spread and popularity of ... cozy genre fiction." ([47:13])
  • Recs: Beneath the Trees Where Nobody Sees (cozy horror/comic); The Thursday Murder Club series by Richard Osman (cozy mystery); I Will Prescribe You A Cat (Japan-based cozy fantasy).
• Theme: Despite a “long year,” the quest for comfort, connection, and the joy of reading persists.

9. Notable Quotes

• MJ Franklin:
  • "For me, 2025 was the lost year in books. The energy felt deflated." ([05:39])
• John Maher:
  • "We are so far from anything vaguely resembling a monoculture anymore..." ([12:38])
  • "Mission driven nonprofit publishers lost federal funding..." ([14:57])
• Alexandra Alter:
  • "The arrival of three Harry Potter fanfiction novels transformed into romantasy novels was ... a stunning turn ..." ([20:38])
  • "People are really exhausted by the news and the news cycle and they just maybe don't want to engage with anything too serious." ([28:23])
• Tina Jordan:
  • "As the big presses are doing this, this is where the small places are picking this stuff up." ([23:47])
  • "I really loved the spread and popularity of ... cozy genre fiction." ([47:13])

Memorable Moments & Timestamps:

• [07:46] – Alexandra on The Correspondent's surprising sales (“hundreds of thousands of copies, which for a debut is really astonishing”)
• [22:22] – Alexandra on Alchemize: “It's a long book. It’s almost a thousand pages … and it's sold more than 700,000 copies.”
• [29:28] – Alexandra: “What people really love right now, to my great surprise and bit of alarm, is dark romance … mafia romance, shadow daddies.”
• [35:55] – Alexandra: “Kamala Harris’s memoir, 107 Days … has sold, I think, more than 600,000 copies … there seems to just be a ton of interest in this book.”
• [38:04] – Alexandra on Mr. Beast x James Patterson: “To get any of his fanbase over into the James Patterson ecosystem … that was worth a lot.”
• [43:36] – John: “AP deciding that they were no longer going to run book reviews … it felt like a one, two punch.”
• [45:36] – Alexandra: “Here's somebody who did nothing else for the last two decades but create this incredible story—and I just found that so inspiring.”
• [47:13] – Tina: “I really loved the spread and popularity of … cozy genre fiction.”

Final Thoughts

• 2025 was a complicated year for books:
  • The lack of major unifying releases reflected a fragmented cultural moment.
  • “Fan culture” and small presses flourished; big houses chased trends and safe bets.
  • Nonfiction’s malaise signaled readers’ search for comfort and escapism.
  • Book industry funding losses and contraction in books media were sobering, but philanthropy and innovation provided some hope.
  • Amid it all, intimacy and perseverance—be it in writing, reading, or connecting over stories—remained the heart of literary life.

For listeners: This episode offers a panoramic and honest autopsy of a pivotal year, challenging the myth of the blockbuster and encouraging deeper dives into how and why we read now.

(Episode ads and non-content segments omitted. All quotes and attributions use the speakers’ original language and tone.)