Podcast Summary: "The Sunday Special: The Books We Read in School"

Podcast: The Book Review (The New York Times)
Host: Gilbert Cruz
Guests: Sadie Stein (Editor), Louis Sachar (Author)
Date: October 3, 2025
Episode Theme: Reflections on childhood and school reading experiences, discussing which books shaped the panelists and today’s students, and sharing book recommendations for young readers.

Episode Overview

This episode features a deep, nostalgic, and often humorous conversation among host Gilbert Cruz, NYT Book Review editor Sadie Stein, and acclaimed children’s and now adult novelist Louis Sachar. They reflect on the books they read during their youth—at home and in school—and how those selections shaped their reading lives. The panel also reacts to a new study detailing which books are still mainstays in English classes, debates the value and challenges of “the canon,” and swaps recommendations for cultivating a lifelong love of reading, both for kids and adults.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Childhood Reading Memories

• Teachers Reading Aloud: All three guests highlight the formative power of being read to in class, especially in fourth grade.

  • Louis Sachar recalls his teacher reading Charlotte’s Web aloud:

    “I cried in class at the end. But it was funny, it was emotional. I was completely caught up in the story...That’s really what I think started my love of reading.” (01:55)

  • Sadie Stein emphasizes the immersive effect:

    “My teacher...read aloud to us every day and we would knit and do the various handicrafts we did in elementary school. And it was just incredible.” (03:12)

• Early Favorites and Series:

  • Sadie’s obsession began with the Betsy Tacy books by Maud Hart Lovelace—stories about a girl growing up that mature with the reader.
  • Gilbert reveals he became a reader partly due to movies:

    "I became obsessed with these popular fiction authors. And then that led into just wanting to read all the time." (05:11)

• Transition to Reading for Pleasure:

  • Louis Sachar didn’t fall in love with reading until high school, through writers like Vonnegut, Kesey, and Salinger. He describes reading Nine Stories with a friend and parsing its mysteries together. (05:49)

2. Writing (and Choosing) for Young Readers

• On Hooking Young Readers:

  • Sachar's approach:

    “I think it has to hook me first...And I don’t talk down to the kids. I respect the reader’s intelligence and humanity, even if it’s a nine year old.” (07:20)

• Literary Depth for Kids:

  • Sadie Stein (on kids' books):

    “You have to be so skilled to appeal to children and to give them credit for humor and dignity and deep feelings and a capacity for menace, like Roald Dahl does.” (08:39)

  • Both stress that series books are an immersive entry point for reluctant readers.

3. The School Canon: What’s Still Taught

• Top 10 Most-Assigned Titles 2025 vs. 1989:

  • (10:20–10:44) Romeo and Juliet, The Great Gatsby, The Crucible, Macbeth, Of Mice and Men, To Kill a Mockingbird, Night, Hamlet, Fahrenheit 451, Frankenstein.
  • The conversation reflects on the difficulty of Shakespeare and the importance of performance:

    “The best way I found to read Shakespeare was actually...to play a Shakespeare recording of a play as I read it. And then it made some sense to me, but otherwise I couldn’t get through them.” —Louis Sachar (10:44)

  • Sadie credits good teachers and acting out plays for making Shakespeare fun (11:10).

• Difficulty and Accessibility:

  • Universal struggle with Faulkner, e.g., The Sound and the Fury:

    "I can’t understand why that would be [assigned]...if you’re trying to get people to turn them on to reading." —Sachar (22:19)
    “I was made to read it before I was ready to understand it or to engage with it.” —Cruz (23:48)

• Contrasts in Experience:

  • Steinbeck books sparked strong emotional reactions:

    “I found them so incredibly upsetting that I have never read them again. And I think anytime you feel a strong emotion is not a bad thing.” —Stein (14:22)

  • Catcher in the Rye left an indelible mark on Sadie Stein:

    "...to treat it as something kind of immature or jeune...does the book a real disservice. He managed to capture something so real and so essential about being an alienated teenager.” (18:37)

4. Audiobooks & Reading Inclusivity

• Audiobooks as Legitimate Reading:

  • Both Stein and Sachar argue for integrating audiobooks into school curricula for accessibility. Sachar finds listening as powerful as reading, though he can’t listen to his own due to inflection differences (26:43).
  • Cruz notes the need to destigmatize audiobooks:

    “Anything that engages the literary mind...is valid. And so audiobooks are great. I listen to them all the time.” (27:28)

• Danger of Assigned Reading Turning Kids Off:

  • Cruz:

    “The scariest thing is...if you are made to read too many books that you don’t like, it will turn you off from reading altogether.” (28:13)

  • Stein:

    “I’m so glad to have...read certain books in school...I just wouldn’t have had the discipline to take up Faulkner or Joyce as an adult.” (28:31)

5. Fostering Reading for Life

• Sachar on Reading’s Purpose:

  • "Reading has enriched my life tremendously...especially when I write for young people, is to try to turn them on to reading and show them that reading can be fun and engaging and thought provoking and all that." (29:12)
  • He shares the joy of hearing from adults whose reading lives started with his books (29:59).

• The Power of Book Series:

  • Stein:

    "I think kids love a series and I think it’s immersive and propulsive in a way that standalone books aren’t always." (30:28)

  • Cruz and Stein share how their children are now hooked by series (Dogman, Mysterious Benedict Society, Last Kids on Earth, etc.) (31:21).

• Falling Pleasure Reading Rates:

  • Cruz shares recent stats: only 16% of Americans read for pleasure each year (32:38).
  • Both guests stress the importance of offering books that individuals relate to, normalizing pleasure reading, and letting kids see adults read. (33:23)

6. Book Recommendations for Young Readers

(35:01–40:30)

• Louis Sachar:

  • The Giver by Lois Lowry
  • Bridge to Terabithia and The Great Gilly Hopkins by Katherine Paterson

  “Both those books I found very moving.” (35:44)

• Sadie Stein:

  • Scary Stories to Tell in the Dark by Alvin Schwartz
  • Where the Red Fern Grows, Witch of Blackbird Pond, Sounder, Number the Stars, From the Mixed-Up Files of Mrs. Basil E. Frankweiler

  “If you are drawn at all to the supernatural and we’re entering that time of year, nothing better.” (36:37)

• Gilbert Cruz:

  • The Phantom Tollbooth by Norton Juster (read with his son)

  “It is so clever and the wordplay is incredibly amusing...can’t wait to read it again.” (37:22)

  • Small Spaces (Katherine Arden; for older kids who like creepy books):

    “Some very creepy stuff. In the first one there’s a character named the Smiling Man. Which I feel like that’s all I have to say.” (38:57)

• Other Mentioned Favorites:

  • Ramona the Pest by Beverly Cleary (“so incredibly funny and sensitive”—Stein, 39:42)
  • Ms. Nelson Is Missing by Harry Allard, illustrated by James Marshall
  • The Dot and the Line by Norton Juster

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Reading Aloud:

  “Being read to, I think, is the most important thing.” —Louis Sachar (34:19)

• On Audiobooks:

  “Anything that engages the literary mind, whether you’re reading with your eyes or listening with your ears, is valid.” —Gilbert Cruz (27:28)

• On the Frustrations of Assigned Reading:

  “I can’t understand why that would be [assigned]…if you’re trying to get people to turn them on to reading.” —Louis Sachar on Faulkner (22:19)

• On Book Series:

  “Series are sometimes a good device. I think whatever shows you that there’s additional lore...is terrific.” —Sadie Stein (31:21)

• On Timelessness of Classic Books:

  “I had read so many books up to that point, but I don’t know that I’d have read a book that was just beautiful...that’s how I felt about [The Great Gatsby].” —Gilbert Cruz (21:06)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 01:42 – Childhood reading memories, teachers reading aloud
• 05:49 – Sachar’s turn to loving books in high school
• 07:20 – What makes a book appealing to kids (Sachar’s “write for yourself” approach)
• 10:44 – Discussion of the current most-assigned school books
• 13:11 – Reflections on Steinbeck and the importance of author-reader connection
• 17:57 – Panelists share the books they loved in school
• 22:08 – Books they struggled with (Sound and the Fury, Faulkner)
• 26:43 – The value of audiobooks in education and for reluctant readers
• 29:59 – Sachar’s reflections on hearing from now-adult fans
• 31:21 – The power of book series for kids
• 32:38 – Drop in pleasure reading: discussion of causes and remedies
• 35:01–40:30 – Book recommendations for young readers

Tone & Style

The episode is warm, literary, and conversational, mixing nostalgia, humor, and honest reflection. The guests swap memories and opinions with affection and a gentle authority. The tone leans bookish but accessible, with a recurring celebration of the joys (and frustrations) of reading as a child and the lifelong journey into literature.

This summary captures the essence of the episode, charting its major topics and most compelling insights, while preserving the panel’s original tone and key direct quotes for maximum context and engagement.