The Book Review Podcast – “Welcome to Literary Award Season”
The New York Times | Host: MJ Franklin
Date: November 22, 2025

Episode Overview

In this special episode, The New York Times Book Review convenes editors and critics to reflect on the just-concluded “first wave” of literary awards season, which saw winners announced for the 2025 Booker Prize, Nobel Prize in Literature, and National Book Awards. Host MJ Franklin is joined by colleagues Emily Akin, Jumana Khatib, and Dave Kim for a lively, unscripted conversation about how these prizes shape the literary landscape each year, what surprised them about this season’s selections, and what the awards mean for readers, authors, and book culture.

Key Themes and Insights

1. The Mood of Literary Award Season (00:39–04:52)

• Panel’s One-Word Descriptions:

  • Mystified (Jumana & Emily)
  • Curious (MJ)
  • Unpredictable (Dave)

• Reason for Consensus:

  • This awards cycle felt chaotic and hard to predict. Major books didn’t stick in public consciousness, and there was little overlap between prize lists compared to previous years.
  • The process of sorting through longlists and shortlists felt more opaque than ever.

Notable Quote:

“You look at the long lists, you look at the short list, you compare the Booker, you look at the National Book Awards, and sometimes there's just no overlap, and you just want to know what's going on inside the heads of those jurors.”
— Jumana Khatib (03:55)

2. Theories and Attitudes Toward Literary Prizes (07:40–16:09)

• Prizes as Necessary Controversy:

  • Jumana references James English’s “Prestige Economy,” positing that prizes exist in part to be derided, thus reifying both their authority and the outsider status of so-called “true art.”
  • The constant unpredictability—especially at the National Book Awards—is by design, keeping the conversation lively and critical.

• Function for Readers:

  • Awards are discoverability tools before anything else. Sometimes they spotlight obscured works; sometimes they represent the literary “horse race” no reader needs.

Notable Quote:

“Prizes exist for us to hate them. That's the way they're supposed to work. … And one of his great examples is Toni Morrison, in 1987, was overlooked for the National Book Award. … That is the point. It's as if it ratifies her greatness not to be given that award.”
— Jumana Khatib (07:40)

• Celebrating Discovery:
  • Awards create opportunity to champion the overlooked, not just the obvious bestsellers.
  • Best-of lists and prizes are informational signposts; they should inspire debate, not dictate taste or reading agendas.

Notable Quote:

“I feel like that's the joy of loving books or any type of art—getting to say to someone, I just read this, this is great, you're gonna love this. … And that's what these awards do.”
— MJ Franklin (14:17)

• Archivist Value:
  • Prizes’ archives—recorded lectures, judges’ rationale—serve as invaluable resources for understanding literary history and authorial intent.

“It is so helpful to go back and read those… The Nobel Prize has a robust archive…”
— MJ Franklin (16:29)

In-Depth on Major Prizes

3. The Booker Prize: Flesh by David Sola (19:56–29:00)

• Panel Impressions:
  • Emily: LOVED the win—novel praised for its minimalism, “participatory” reading experience, daring form, and the monotonal hero Istvan (“most passive but hunky Hungarian guy you’ve ever seen”).
  • Dave: Admired the Hemingway-esque subtext, weight in what’s left unsaid, everyday scenes charged with repressed emotion.

Notable Quote:

“To me, it makes sense. … I don't think I've ever read a book like it. … You're trying to meet him there. It's like talking to an introvert at a party who, like, really doesn't want to be at the party.”
— Emily Akin (19:56–21:41)

• Jumana & Dave: Differences among finalists mainly in style (minimalist, epic, psychological), but a noted thematic convergence on internal/domestic dramas and psychological portraiture.

Notable Topics:

• No sweeping “big social novel” or genre experimentation on the shortlist this year.

• Discovery: Seascraper by Susan Choi (about a shrimper)—critical buzz despite not making the shortlist.

• Conversation about Popularity and Perception:

  • Some surprise at the popularity of Katie Kitamura’s Audition (an “opaque, intentionally so” novel)—and discussion about how online and critical fervor can defy traditional charge of “pretentious” shortlists.

Notable quote:

“I'm surprised that it's popular because I think the book is bad. I think the book is great. … But I was surprised at the popular fervor around it.”
— MJ Franklin (27:39)

• International Note:
  • “It’s been a standout year for Hungarian writers.” Both Booker (David Sola) and Nobel (Laszlo Krasna Horkai) went to Hungarians.

4. The Nobel Prize: Laszlo Krasna Horkai (29:01–38:03)

• Overview:
  • Laszlo Krasna Horkai’s win was both expected and, in a sense, “surprising because it was not surprising” (Dave). He’s long been on Nobel-watch lists.
  • His work: Difficult, Melancholic, master of the long sentence, often bleak but with flashes of wit and affirmation.

Notable Quote:

“They have long, winding sentences. They're often called bleak and dystopian, melancholic. But … there is something very reaffirming about his work that I think people overlook. And there's something very funny about it.”
— Dave Kim (30:07)

• Entry Points for New Readers:

  • Sátántangó—his “masterpiece,” a bleak fable about a conman in a dying Hungarian village.
  • The Melancholy of Resistance—Dave’s personal favorite, praised for masterfully expanding small moments to larger truths (“…all normal expectations went by the board and one's daily habits were disrupted by a sense of ever spreading, all consuming chaos…” – read aloud at 35:00).
  • Harsh 2566 (or 07…)—his most recent, and possibly most approachable, novel (noted for being a single sentence).

• Panel’s Experience:

  • Emily shared a friend’s unexpected emotional connection to Krasna Horkai. Dave performed a dramatic reading for the group.
  • Discussion of how his sentences hypnotize—boringly mundane, then suddenly profound.

5. The National Book Awards (39:35–49:34)

Winners & Panel Reaction (39:53–41:18)

• Fiction:
  • The True Story of Raja the Gullible and His Mother by Rabia Alamuddin
    • A total surprise to panelists—not on many “award radar” conversations.
    • Emily, who profiled Alamuddin, shared rich biographical context: expatriate Lebanese Druze, late debut, complex relationship to Arab and Western literature, comic sensibility, lives “to ruffle feathers,” and delivered a memorably irreverent speech.

Notable Quote:

“He thanked his gastroenterologist and his psychiatrist and his drug dealers in his speech. So, like, that gives you a sense of his flav.”
— Emily Akin (44:43)

• Nonfiction:
  • One Day Everyone Will Have Always Been Against This by Omar El Akkad
    • Less surprising—marked departure from El Akkad’s fiction, “credù coeur” for Gaza and Palestine, blends polemic with personal testimony.
    • Panel hails its clarity, political urgency, and resonance with readers.

Speech Moments:

• The translation prize recipient gave her address in Spanish “because it makes fascists angry.”
• Roxane Gay, Literarian Award winner, advocated for the “global majority of writers.”

Panel Discussion

• National Book Awards as Discovery Machine:
  • Often functions as a true wildcard, surfacing books and authors beyond the mainstream buzz.
  • The fiction shortlist highlighted the panel’s surprise—the titles didn’t match the books dominating critical conversation all year (48:01).
  • The range in tone (comic, e.g. Alamuddin, to tragic, e.g. Yi Yun Li’s memoir finalist) underscored the jury’s wide remit.
  • Panel agrees this pluralism—even if mystifying—is generative.

Notable Quote:

“That's not to say that they weren't great, but I feel the energy had gone to other books throughout the year. … One thing I love about the National Book Awards is … it's this kind of gathering ground for literature at large.”
— MJ Franklin (48:59)

• Awards Night Atmosphere:
  • Emily relished the sense of literary community and ritual at the NBAs—watching legendary writers mingle, the “spirit of the mission,” and even the catering.

Memorable Moments

• Emily’s vivid, tongue-in-cheek descriptions:

  “Imagine like the most passive but hunky Hungarian guy you’ve ever seen in your life.”

• The classic Nobel lament:

  “Tolstoy never won the Nobel... That’s why he’s great.”

• The recurring panel refrain:

  “These awards should inspire conversation and debate and then we should move on.” — Emily Akin (16:09)

Timestamps for Major Segments

• 00:39–04:52: Awards season mood—chaos, unpredictability
• 07:40–16:09: Why prizes matter, how to read lists, the function of discovery
• 19:56–29:00: Deep dive—Booker Prize, Flesh and the shortlisted titles
• 29:01–38:03: The Nobel: Laszlo Krasna Horkai’s legacy, what to read first
• 39:53–47:31: National Book Awards—overview of winners, discussion of fiction and nonfiction
• 48:01–49:15: Pluralism and surprise at the NBAs; value as literary community gathering

Conclusion

This episode of The Book Review Podcast offered a witty, searching, and at times irreverent roundtable on the perplexities and joys of literary award season. Panelists celebrated how prizes provoke debate, highlight overlooked gems, and sometimes baffle even professional critics. The conversation ranged from vigorous defense of the value of lists, to literary theory, to gleeful teasing about author names and genres, to emotional moments of book discovery. As the season concludes, listeners are left with a rich sense of what makes literary awards meaningful—and why the best thing about them may be the conversations they spark.

Recommended For:

• Listeners who want to catch up on what happened in awards season.
• Readers seeking new discoveries beyond mainstream book talk.
• Anyone who wonders: “How do critics actually feel about the value of literary prizes?”

Notable Quotes Recap:

“Prizes exist for us to hate them. That's the way they're supposed to work.” — Jumana Khatib (07:40)

“That's what these awards do. … It's as a bell to corral everyone.” — MJ Franklin (14:17)

“I just want to be left alone.” — Emily Akin (11:44)

“He thanked his gastroenterologist and his psychiatrist and his drug dealers in his speech.” — Emily Akin, on Rabia Alamuddin (44:43)

“We just go in and we just rush in and get our seats. It's something so simple. And yet, I don't know, I find I found it just a perfect description.” — Dave Kim, on Krasna Horkai (35:55)

Happy reading, and until next awards season, keep the debates—and the discoveries—going!