← The Boostly Podcast
The Boostly Podcast
How Ryan Luke Built a £100K/Property Mid-Term Rental Business (Without Airbnb Tourists)
00:54:10
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- [00:00]
A
All right, Good morning, good afternoon, good evening. I know we've got a worldwide audience here today. I know that we've got people all the way in New Zealand and Australia tuning in, which it must be about 12 o' clock in the morning. So if that is you, thank you. I know we've got lots of people over in America tuning in because this is a topic that is worldwide at the moment. It's the MTR edition. It's to boost your bookings, boot camp, 30 day stays, whatever you want to call it. And I've worked and I've changed this sort of format around where in the past we would do a little bit of social, a little bit of SEO, a little bit arbitrage. I wanted to do a bootcamp that is solely focused on one topic, one topic only, which is something that I think is, is really topical at the moment because Airbnb just released some numbers. But one in every five stays on Airbnb that's booked is over 30 days. And I think that so many of you are not setting up your business, your calendar and you're marketing the right way to be able to attract these. So that's what we're going to achieve over the next three days. Today we've got Ryan Luke, who's next to me on my right or left, however you're looking at this. Tomorrow we've got Reuben, Kanye and on Wednesday we've got Dr. Rachel Gainsborough. All experts in their own way. When we talk about this now, Ryan, you've created something called Contractor bnb. Can you just give a little background of how many years you've been into the industry, what you were doing, sort of pre, sort of doing this and why you pivoted to this model and sort of numbers and anything behind that?
- [01:25]
B
Yeah, sure. So I started in 2019 or back end of 2018, started looking to buy property and then fell into Airbnb. Had quite a. What's the word? Immediate or a rise of. I ended up with 450 units within 3 years across Dubai and UK, mainly in the UK, about 90 in Dubai. All Airbnb short term strategy. Had 85 staff in office in Dubai, had 25 staffing in office in the UK. Hated. My life, looked great on paper, was absolute chaos behind the scenes. I didn't have a life really. And then I, I, I then started to lose money. So it went from like three years of just profit, profit, profit, profit to then first month was, it was a 90k loss and I'll tell you, it was even when we were in Miami, that's when I got the numbers. When we were speaking in Miami back in 2022, I think it was, wasn't it? And, and I got the numbers and I was like that's a bit of a shock considering, you know, we've always made money and then the next six months was fairly similar numbers. So I had to restructure the business and what I did was I, I, I got data, right? So I had like so many stays. I don't know how many guests have hosted like 300000 or whatever. But like we, we looked and I was like, right, these type of properties are bringing in all the profit and they're also bringing in much longer stays and they don't seem to be as much hassle. So like what, what is it about them? So we started digging into who was booking them and, and then asking questions to those people and why they were extended and it basically landed that they were all contractors. So this is in the UK with Dubai. I think I got lucky with Dubai and the fact that I set up there in November 2020 after Covid when basically the world was released back and people were willing to travel for the first 18 months, even in the summer there. So I had 18 months worth of bookings. But then the last year that we operated there, the summer we were dead for five months, like not a single soul through probably 80% of the properties that we had. So we were subleasing there, obviously started losing a lot of money there. So I cleaned all that out and I've just for the last three years pretty much just been focusing on getting the right stock to attract the right long term bookings. And I think that for me is the, the magic formula. I think there's a lot you can do with brand building and copy and how you present yourself online on listings and things like that. And I'm sure we can dive into that, but I think it all really starts with getting the right unit in the right location set up correctly. And that has just been the, I guess the, the cookie cutter there sort of approach we've been doing for the last three years now and, and we just can't control. It's funny enough I'm actually sacked so I, a bit background. We live in Dubai, we're back in the uk, I've got the family. So this is my actual best performer from last year this place. We converted this three bed into a five bed. This was the garage which is now a Jack and Jill. Bedroom here, bathroom there, bedroom there. And my kids and that are in the lounge so they've had a hiding here. But this did like I think 59,000 last year, you know, and it's cost me less than 700 on a mortgage, probably including bills, I don't know, maybe 800 quid bills, you know, so there's a lot of money in doing it right and they don't need to be anything fancy or, you know, and that's the other thing is the, the, the amount of maintenance that we need. So I've got a team of seven now. So just to kind of put it all into perspective like how, how much I've come down is I've got a team of seven. So that, that in itself just, it just works, it's just a better model, it's a nicer model to run. You know, I, I don't have to work as much now and, and it just, it's just a lot easier than the 2am phone calls. I've lost my keys and.
- [05:28]
A
Yeah, so obviously you've come through it, you've grew that short term rental model massively and you're able, you could look at the numbers, look at what was working, look what, what wasn't working, what's causing you the headaches and be able to streamline for, for that. What I'd be interested to know, we've got quite a few people now jumping in, into the session, let me know in the chat. So if you look at the right there's a, there's a couple of bubbles, one is a chat box, one is Q A. Please do get your questions in for, for Ryan, when it comes to the MTR strategy, anything that you've heard so far or what's going to come up but above that is the chat. So I would be really interested to know for everybody that's watching from, from Megan to Hannah to let us know in your portfolio how many of you are already operating this, this 30 day state MTR strategy that we're talking about. It'd be really interesting to know. So Ryan, you've gone down this route. Like I say, you homed in on, on contractors. That is your, that is your niche. So today's session and we've got a good 30 minutes, I would love to pick your brains in how you go about getting these properties. Obviously there's a, a different mindset than going to buy like a touristy location. Like what, how does it work for you? How do you start? What's the first sort of things that when you're doing, when when, when properties are come onto your radar, whether they're given to you or somebody's mentioned to, or you go and find them. How, how do you sort of decipher this?
- [06:50]
B
Yeah, so I think for me there's like the two different models of acquisition. One is purchasing and one's rent to rent. I think I don't do rent to rent anymore. I don't think it's scalable in the uk. I think it's done correctly with the right guidance. I think you can add a couple of units and get started and make some cash. But they are quite high risk and once you start then adding VAT in and things like that, it becomes a non scalable model. And that's one thing that I kind of, you know, teach as well when I get students on board that they're like so heavy and wanting to go into rent to rent. So I think knowing that for me it's the same effort to find a property and raise capital to buy that property as it is to actually try and convince a landlord sublease and sort all that sort of stuff out. And so I don't, I don't search for rent to rents anymore. For me it's, it's purchasing. So we just, we've built up quite a lot of relationships. I've been buying property now in this area for like, you know, seven years, Nearly six years. Seven years. So we've built up a lot of good relationships with agents and they know we always complete, we've never pulled out on a deal we can complete within 30 days. So you know, cash buyers, so, and therefore anything that falls through, we've got typical auction houses, they'll give us a call and they'll be like, listen, this one's falling through things, your criteria, so on and so forth. So, but that only happens every now and then. But that's a nice thing to have. What I typically do is obviously I live in Dubai and my, my brother works in the business with me so he is my ears on the ground here and, and he'll go and look at stuff for me and I trust him to be able to know how we're going to reconfigure these places and ultimately cost them up correctly, which I think a lot of deal sources. I, I just don't, I, I, I don't, I, I think I've been burnt enough to know that you've got to control every bit of this business if you want. So if I was advising anyone it'd be like learn how to do this from the start. And then if you want to like get deal sources, you can, but at least you know how to vet the deals and vet the costs and things like that. So basically I, I will look on right move. And what I typically search for is three bed houses that have obviously in the UK a lot of the older stock has got that traditional sort of lounge, kitchen, reception room, like downstairs. It's basically got an extra lounge downstairs. So we're looking for houses that have got that. We'll then try and we'll then see if they're big enough to then convert that into an ensuite downstairs, have a kitchen, diner in, in one room together and then that creates that at least extra bedroom. So every property we take on now has to have a minimum of four bedrooms. Ideally we want five or six. So like this one for example that I'm in right now, this was a three bed with, this is a semi detached with a gar garage. So we then. But the garage stretches the whole length of the house. So we were able to get two extra bedrooms in that garage with a Jack and Jill bathroom, turn it from a three into a five. So we're always looking to do stuff like that. So when I'm on right move I'm looking for not only properties that need modernization because that's where the value is in, you know, brr. By refurbished refinance. I know they can do it in the us Obviously we can do it here. You can't do it in Dubai. I'm pretty sure you can't do it in Spain. So it depends where you, where you live, whether you know that strategy or not. But for me that is like a wealth cheat code if you do it correctly because you can basically buy multiple houses with one pot of money. So we look to buy under market value, we look to add those extra bedrooms and then, and then we'll refinance, get the money back out and go again. So I just typically go on right move. There's an extension called property log which you can add to your chrome, it's free and that shows you when the property was listed and it also shows you if there's ever been any price adjustments. So if you can see that a property's been either listed for a long time or it's had lots of price adjustments, it means that the buyer, sorry, the seller is going to be more and more motivated to actually then, you know, get rid. So. So I basically just look at that sort of data whilst I'm scrolling through looking at pictures. I prefer to do it on my MacBook, because you get all of you get about four or five images, whereas if you do it on your mobile, you only get one image. And that image is typically the front of the house. Whereas I'm actually looking for. I say this all the time. And I've said this like in my mind, my grand's house when I was a kid was like wooden sort of bathrooms, you know, green carpets, that sort of, you know, vibe. You're sort of similar age to me, what I'm saying. So whenever I see things like that, I know that's a potential opportunity for us. Then I'll look onto the floor plan and I'll see if it's got that extra space for us to actually get an extra bedroom in. And then we then just. I basically, we put it on a spreadsheet, then it goes into a system of, you know, Liam then gets it booked with it. He goes on and views it, he costs it up, he gives the numbers back to me. I then stack the numbers. I then make the offers with the agents and then try and get the deals over the line. And then once they're over the line, he'll go and project, manage them, arrange all the teams, so on and so forth. So we do that. We look to buy about 8 to 12 year. But for me, it's that. That's kind of part one of it is, is the, the stock type. Now the area. I mean, I kind of, I kind of, I guess did it in a different way of. I had so much data from doing Airbnb tourism model that I accidentally sort of stumbled across these contractor bookings who started booking my bigger houses, or should I say I started buying bigger houses around 20, 22 and they started getting better bookings. And that then caught my eye and I was like, okay, there's something different in this. And then we continued to buy more of the bigger stock because they were making more profit and the same pattern kept happening. But when I like teach my students now, what I tell them to do is go on construction map IO and that basically gives you. You just put in your location and it just pops up a load of. A load of little pinpoints and it'll show you whether they're, you know, construction going on in your area, how long they're there for. And for me, if there's a lot of. A lot of dots, if there's a lot of dots, then typically that's a good sign, right? But I think where I see this model top trumpet and why I don't get worried about it is because like the UK is still, they need houses, they need schools, they need universities, they need hospitals. There's always construction going on. I mean the fact that Newcastle are talking about building a new stadium here is like news to my ears because that's five years of contractors coming in left, right and center from all over the place. So. So I think I used to operate UK wide. I scaled it all back to just within the Northeast. I think that's what being one of the best moves is just having full control in one area, dominating one area and just you don't need masses, amounts. So like if anyone's ever heard me talk or listen to my podcast or you know, seen any of the shows we've been at and spoke at like years ago I was all about get a thousand units, sell it for like 15 million, da da da da da. But you don't realize the work that goes into that, the teams you need, the systems, the processes and you know, and all these numbers get banded around. But this model, like 4 of these houses will make you 100k net income a year. So you don't need volume. It's all about quality. And then there's a lot of extra benefits that filter down. Less turnovers, less staff, less headaches. You know, whenever, whenever there's drinking, drugs involved, you're always going to get trouble. You don't get that with the contractors. So it's just been a really nice, nice business model and but the, the kind of, I think the skill of it, of making it work is knowing that there's stuff going on in your area now and also long term. But I think most major cities have, have enough stuff going on and then it's finding the right stock and setting them up correctly. So we, we try and put like say this is a five bed, so there's four double bedrooms and one twin room. A lot of people will say well why don't you do twins in all the rooms and maximize occupancy and this, that and the other. Our typical stay is four to seven months. Now most people are not 18 that are staying four or seven months. You know, if you're a 50 year old bloke, you don't want to share a room with someone for four to seven months. You've got to treat it totally different to the tourism model where it's like it's a home away from home and it's got to be trek that way. So they want their own room. You don't need bathrooms in every room. So again it's like setting them up is then key to maximizing the bookings and getting it. And then you go on to, you know, which I know today's not about. Then how do you then position yourself on Airbnb, booking.com etc to actually then get those type of inquiries? How do you optimize your calendars? How do you price? Because all that's totally different. Like I don't use, I don't use price labs anymore. I only use a channel manager because it's, it's possibly slightly easier for the staff but we could quite easily get rid of it because just everything, there's no inquiry levels. I don't need to do dynamic pricing. So there's like so many different, different changes to the, the model that we're all used to because I think by default you naturally just fall into Airbnb's sort of tourism trap. That's how we all get started. And thankfully I kind of figured out a different way so.
- [16:56]
A
So there's loads to unpack in there. You're right. Tomorrow what we're going to do with Reuben is we're going to show how you can have your cake and eat it. So how can you can have your Airbnb listing for a short term model but also as well use Airbnb for the, for the MTR model? Because you're right, you still need to tap into these guys advertising because that's where the eyeballs go. But what I'm interested to know from, from you is you obviously maybe had the data already, maybe you had people staying with you, but you obviously do a lot of your work direct. So the, the average day, four to seven months, you've got the construction maps, you've got the constructors. How are you going about building relationships, how are you getting through the door at these companies to then be able to sort of know that you can add 8 to 12 properties and be sorted from the relations that you've got.
- [17:43]
B
Yeah. So I think, I think one thing that helps is volume of stock in an area for getting. So I think if you look at like our direct booking game, you know, sort of two as a model pre 2021, we were like, like everyone probably 1520 best case scenario. And then you're relying on the OTAs for everything. Then we kind of started buying more, more of this type of stock and then what we found was the guy, because the guys that are on site, they might then have someone else coming in after them or they at least know other people on site. As well. So we just started speaking to them and I think it's, it's that rel. It's like sort of relationship building with whoever you're dealing with. And I. And then also what we then found was we started getting inquiries where it's like we need 80 rooms in this location. And we were like, well, we can house all of that across our entire portfolio. So let's do a deal. Now. The, the bigger blue chip companies, they would rather have one invoice. They would rather, you know, have one contact in case there's any trouble. They don't want to be going booking 20 different Airbnbs and having all this and putting the credit card details in for everyone and this, that and the other. So I think as you build your stock in one location and get more and more rooms, I talk rooms, but I don't rent them out room by room. We rent them out house by house. But that's typically how, how these construction companies work. Like talk with us. So we, so they will then, they'll then want to just deal with, with one company. So the more stock you've got, the more you kind of direct bookings increase. It's almost like an organic thing. And then they're always. The bigger companies, typically always get the bigger gigs, no matter what the city or you'll have. Like there's certain companies that typically get the northern gigs and the certain ones that get the southern gigs or whatever. But it seems to be that they're like, oh, we're back in the area. Have you got anything? And that, that seems to be a common conversation. And that'll just come back through WhatsApp with whoever they've had that relationship with at the start. So I think again, get getting the right stock and then ultimately getting more of the right stock. But with that you don't want to just rush out and go, oh well, I'll just go rent, you know, 25 bed houses. Because I mean, that was my theory previously. But what you don't realize is once you go over the 90k threshold, you end up paying 20 VAT and you can't use TOMS now. So it's like there's, there's your margin gone on rent to rent, whereas with these we are, because we're obviously mortgaging them, you know, we can swallow those type of costs. I'm not going to go in the tax side of things, but obviously when you have the longest days as well, there are reduced facts and things like that. So it does, it does also help on that front as well. But then we, then we basically. I decided in 2022 that I don't want tourists. Like, that was it. I was, I was so sick of them. I was just, I was just having a bad as, you know, I was, I was kind of going through a divorce as well. And it was just everything was coming on top me. And I just almost said this and I was like, right, let's just clean. How can I make this life simple again? And, and, and so I said, I don't even want to advertise to her. So I then redesigned the entire website, the entire branding. I changed all the color schemes to sort of black and gold, which is kind of in line with construction. And, and just everything on the website speaks to trade stays, construction, this, that and the other. And, and I just, we just, I just wanted to become the niche sort of contractor company in our area. And that's kind of what we've carved out. And, and now we get referred and we get passed on. We'll get, you know, I don't know how many opportunities a week come through the website direct, but we get a lot, you know, through the email just basically saying like, hey, have you got this? Or we're in this area here, this, that we used to do outbound. And we still touch on it a bit, but it's more follow up outbound from hot stuff as opposed to cold stuff, I think. And, and you know, my, I get a lot of students through the academy who ask this question. They're like, right, I need some direct bookings. Especially in the winter when it's like quiet. And they're like, right, I need to panic now. And I need some direct bookings. How do I get them? Who do I need to ring? And I'm like, the chances of you ringing a company who needs accommodation that day is like, it, it, it's. You're better off putting the lottery on. Like, so you'd be better off spending time trying to raise money to buy assets, buying the right assets in the right location and just kind of letting the traffic come from the OTAs or from your website and then, and then converting the book in that way. So we do still. And I'm not gonna, because I think Reuben's coming this tomorrow. But we do still use Airbnb a lot to be able to actually get our direct bookings. You'd be stupid to turn them off, but there's a strategy in that in itself. So we, we convert a lot of that, but again, it comes down to stock Type and calendar optimization. Because like we, this, this summer, I was actually saying this to, to my team the other day. This summer we've had more long like say like 90 nights or 80 nights or whatever bookings straight up off Airbnb than we've ever had. And that's because we, we clean our calendars out so that we've not got the three night holiday stay in the middle of August that every, that's blocking everybody else's calendars. Like everybody's got. But the problem is a lot of hosts basically haven't got the balls to switch to that because they're so worried about not getting the summer traffic. And I think you've got to go from, this is a, this is, these are two total different business models and you have to have the mindset you can't really dip your toe in either water. You either go all in on this or you go all in on the tourism model. And, and that's it. And, and you kind of figure it out from there. So that's kind of what we did. And just building the brand and, and, and all of the other sort of little levers and metrics that we pulled MEANT the last three years we, we were 77% three years ago we were about, I think 78 or something the year after. And we're 81 last year, 82 nearly. Direct booking game.
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A
So, so from going from, like I said, quite a lot of properties, hundreds of properties now. Where does it stand? How many properties do you have active?
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B
Right.
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A
Right now, would you say 59? 59. And how many members of staff, including cleaners and, and whatnot compared to the hundreds that you had before?
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B
I've got seven members of staff now. We've, well, we've gone back to contractor cleaners, thanks to Kia Starmer, should we say.
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A
And so, okay, we've got a few members, we've got 59 properties. And the current bookings that you have at the moment in time, are you 100 occupied? Are they made up of like one or two companies? Have you got like, like what's the sort of makeup of like the bookings?
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B
Yeah, so we've got one company that's been in, I think they've just extended again and that'll take them to 23 months that they've been in. Which blows my mind because I'm like, you could have just rented somewhere and furnished it yourselves and saved yourselves fortunes. But again, they just don't want the hassle. And so we've got a couple, a company who's taken I think four or five of of the units for sure. And then we are pretty full. We always have like there are gaps and I think when I say like we don't work with tourists, like we, we still use tourism to fill in the nights that we have empty, but it's only on a very short term basis. So like last minute sort of jobs, we'll, we'll take a tourist booking. But the majority of the stuff, we still protect the calendars. So we're getting the longer bookings. Because also most, most contractors are not booking like now for next week, they're booking now for Q1 or they're booking now for, you know, they've won a gig in Q1, it starts in Q1. The last thing they want to be bothering about is accommodation. They want to be focusing on the logistics, getting the materials, blah, blah, blah. So they just want that boxing off. So we kind of are pre booked but we do still have obviously empty stuff. But I'd say, you know, sort of middle of January to about the 14th of December, we will be high 80 occupied, you know, in, in across the entire portfolio. And some of them are like 100 occupied.
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A
Nice. Yeah. We talk about like when you have a niche, like we obviously say that it speaks to contractors. Like yours is your niche has gone right down that route. But it doesn't mean that if somebody knocks on your door like a tourist who wants to take like a week, you're gonna go, ah, no, sorry, you're still obviously going to take it sometimes. As long as it doesn't get in the way of the long term goal and the long term bookings, it's, you know, there will always be that one or two who, who book. All right, so this is your business model. But obviously now as well, because of you doing what you're doing, people are obviously coming to you and going, ryan, teach me. So you've obviously set up contract to BNB and how many students would you say have ran through your sort of training over the course of the last year? 18 months, would you say?
- [27:12]
B
Oh, 100. I mean there's, there's, I think we're just about a tip over 200 in the new academy setup that I set up, which is only running a couple of months. So I coached about 1700 students. I calculated the other day since I started in 2020. But obviously the model has changed. You know, I was rent to rent and I was tourism and now a contractor. But I think one thing I am finding is what you get is like you get the newbie hosts who come in and they're like, they don't know about the 2am phone calls for lost keys. They don't know about. All they care about is making money. Right. So they're willing to put up with the. And then what you find is like, you then get the hosts who are like two, three years in and they realize like, I've actually just created myself another job here. I actually, you know, I'm not making that much more money than if I just went and got employed and so that they're the ones that seem to be sort of, I need this sort of contractor model. I like it, I want to switch. The problem is most of them are trying to switch with the wrong stock. And you know that I still have some of my early houses that I bought that in reality I should probably sell them and reinvest the money. But for one, I just think it takes too long to sell stuff here and we kind of use them as fill houses. So for example, like, like say for this one here is a five bed and let's say they need seven beds. We'll be like, oh well we've got a two bed just down the road. So we'll do a deal on both and we'll just class it as one contract. So we kind of use them for that. If I just say had those five or six and, and that's all I had. And then I wanted to pivot to this model, I probably would just sell them and reinvest the money into the larger houses. But it just, it just where I am in business, it doesn't make sense to sell them. But they're not great in terms of this, this model. And I think that also is like. So you get these hosts who are like, oh, I've got like, you know, two bed apartments in the middle of this city center, like Leeds or whatever. And you're like, it's not going to work, like you're not going to get contrast the bookings. They do not want to park in city centers.
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A
Yeah, so this is a good question. So you mentioned like the model is you buy an underperforming, say free bed that you know, that has got the potential to turn into a four or a five bed, maybe ideally six. So why, why is that, Is that from the conversations that you've had? Is that from the knowledge that you've gained that they just want to have like the, the 3, 4, 5, 6 beds to be able to put their people in?
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B
Yeah. So you've got like, I Think you've got two types of contractors that travel. So you've got your, you've got your self employed man with a van and he's got Jimmy who works for him and they're coming down for a week to do a electrician job or whatever, right? They're gonna just rent a two bed flat and they're not really bothered where. All right. Or they might just stay in the traveling or whatever. Yeah, the, the stock that we hold attracts your. I don't let's say like Belfa house builder for example who is like right, we've just won this gig up in Newcastle. We need to send 80 lads for the next seven months, sort accommodation out. So they then go knocking on our door and we're like listen, yeah, we can accommodate all 80 across these properties here. We send them the links, they're like yeah, that absolutely perfect. We do a deal for them all. For them it's, it's economies of scale. So if the way I kind of again teach my students is like the way to figure out how much a room is worth is just local traveling, you know, holiday in village hotels, that type of stuff, like what are they charging for a room per night on average across the seven day period? Well that's typically what they're going to be paying per person. If, if it's a twin room obviously you can split it in two. So for example we work out that typically in our area they'll pay anywhere between 26 and 35 pound per night per room. So if we've got a five bed house, you know we're collecting anywhere from like 150 to 210 depending on the deal per night. Whereas for them they're like, well that's saving us money because we were gonna have to buy five hotel rooms at maybe 70, 80, 90 quid a night. So they, they're then, so it just becomes a deal and for them it's, it's just pure economies of scale that they get by putting them in. But also what they do like about the house is it's got the cleaning facilities and this is again another thing like you don't need instagrammable places, you don't need hot tubs in the backyard, you need a good fridge so that we store a lot of food. You need a good washing machine and good drying facilities so they can get their gear, you know, switched around and you need like just a good, not even relaxing space but like just a good space, good Wi fi. Most of them don't like sit and watch the telly together, they just go in their rooms on their phones, on their iPads, whatever, and you kit it out like that, you're playing into that market. I'm not kitting it out for tourists. You know, I don't want someone to come here and be like, oh, wow, this is amazing. It's got this deck or that decor.
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A
It's just, it just a good fridge, good washer, good dryer. Are you putting like a games console in on the TV or.
- [32:12]
B
No, no, we're just keep very basic. Again, we've, we've kind of, we've asked these questions to them and it's just not. You've. You've got to think you're going to have. With, with every team that comes through, you're going to have an array of ages. Your site manager could be late 50s and the younger squad, he could be 17, 18. And they may all be sharing. So it's like they typically just go into the rooms and that's why double rooms over twins, typically, because it gives them that kind of, I've got my own bedroom, I've got my own space. And then we send cleaners in every 10 days or so, depending on what we agree. Some of them actually like, would prefer us not to send any cleaners in and get a cheaper rate. However, I'm very wary of not keeping our eyes on the condition of the property on a regular basis. So I like to at least send the cleaners in minimum every 10 days.
- [33:05]
A
Yeah. And you've obviously got your, your area narrowed down to, to the northeast now, do you on purposely now put like, when you're looking for new properties, you're taking on board 8 to 12 a year. Are you just literally going, right, I've got a property here on this street, I can see another one literally next doors come up. Are you literally, if that property comes up, you know the layout. You're like, right, let's get all of this one. Or are you sort of thinking let's position it more areas around say, Newcastle, Gateshead, wherever. So that is more flexible for different sites. Like how are you sort of looking now to expand and, and sort of grow that?
- [33:40]
B
Yeah. So the main focus is trying to buy minimum 8 a year. As I said earlier, like 4 puts 100k net income into the pot per year. So that, that's. Each one that we do makes two grand a month net income like nearly like clockwork. So for me it's like, if I can add an extra 200k, happy days. That's kind of the goal and that, that's not me like stressing myself out either. That just works every. I don't need more staff and, and that works nicely. So I could do more, I could raise money and this, that and the other but I don't need to so. But then what we do, we have tried to be like right let's get a few more in Durham, let's get a few more here, let's get a few more there. But of late and I would say this is like the last 12 months just getting a good deal that doesn't tie up too much money like you know buying it cheap has the right floor plan this, that and the other is, is being hard enough so to then try and then like create another filter that then makes that job even harder. So I'm a big but and also I think things shift. So for example our Gateshead properties used to do very, very very well. Like more than like probably 3, 3 and a half K net a month but then everyone like anything they, loads of people start piling in the Gatorade because it's cheap to buy and this, that and the other and sett. So there's a bit more competition in Gateshead so our, you know, our, we've had a drop rates and things like that to be a bit more competitive so, so that's kind of got a bit over saturated but what will happen there is the rent renters will disappear and the people that can't make it work will go back to buy lets and what have you and that and we see these fluctuations so I was kind of like let's just, let's just. I, I just basically have northeast as an area on my right move search. I have like a saved search. I just click it on and it pulls it all up. Minimum 3 Bed Minimum Starting Price 100k Maximum 200k and then it just filters them all out and then I just, I just go through them and, and then any opportunity that we look at there's certain areas that will stay away from but that's because of you know just crime and things like that. You know there are always pockets in every city that's just you know you don't go near. We've, we're the same you know here I don't buy in Sunderland, I think it's a hole and that's not just I'm a Newcastle fan. I do have stock in Sunderland. I just, I just don't, I don't think there's enough going on in Sunderland for what we do. There's not enough regeneration, there's not enough stuff getting built versus say Newcastle or Durham or Darlington or, you know, these sort of places around here. And you know, there's a lot going on. So, so that's kind of how I would do it. I mean, I'd love to say I want two in Durham, I want two here and I want to there, but it's just, it's just never going to work like that.
- [36:21]
A
Okay, so there's been a question come in and I would say to the people that are tuning in, doesn't matter where you are in the world. I mean like the questions that you can ask, well, Ryan will be able to answer and if not, because, because it's regional. I'll save it for Rye, for Reuben, who's obviously based in the US and obviously Rachel's based in the US as well. But what I will ask is obviously you're talking about buying and when it comes to buying, you're using your own money or you're, or you're raising. So you've obviously done a bit of raising and how have you gone about going to somebody, a private person that you want to get involved, private investor, how are you going about and raising money? How are you opening that conversation? How are you sort of doing this or how did you start doing this? Obvious now you can refinance, etc.
- [37:03]
B
Yeah, so I think there's a lot of, there's a lot to unpacking, raising money with private investors. You know, that, that, that could be a whole boot camp in itself. But there's, I think the, the biggest thing is, is, is trust and it's, it's ultimately being able to be transparent and prove that you can do what you say you can do. I have, I mean I, I'll, I'll mention it now. So I have got a, it's like a 30 day raising money challenge that I have on a telegram. I said to you before I was going to give it to anybody who, if you just tag me and Mark in this, in an Instagram story and a bit of a feedback, I will, I'll give you that, I'll give you that access for free for 30 days. So mine's just Ryan. Is it Ryan K. Lug 84? I think it is. But yeah, and, and I basically in that in itself, I do unpack like all of the different things. So it's kind of like, like social media element. I mean if you're not using social media in this game, like you, you know, you just, you've got to be doing that for raising money. You've got to be, you know, a lot of people say you've got to be posting a lot of like, like on the job sort of stuff. And, and there's a lot, there's a lot to do with social media. There's a, I say all the time, but you'll have 2 million quid in your phone book already, whether it's a direct connection or a connection of a connection. But until you know how to speak the language to be able to unlock that money and how to then be able to present to people confidently and properly. And I think before you actually start raising money it's, it's like anything, you have this little chip on your, a little devil on your shoulder who's like why would anyone lend to me? Like even if I've done, you know, I've got like, you know, young lads who come into my world in my masterminds and stuff and they're like, they're raising money like they're just out of school and they're raising money because they're doing it properly and they've got no fear and they just do everything that you ask them to do. So you know, age isn't a factor, experience isn't a factor if you can present a good deal that looks good on paper and gives them a good return. And then there's the different types of ways that you can give them a return. Whether it's straight up money lending, whether it's long term sort of mortgage type lending, like institutional stuff, whether it's JV partnerships, whether it's equity shares. Like there's so many different layers but each layer will depend on your investor. So for example I had at the beginning I just went straight for money lending. I'll give you, I think I offered 14 for my first one. But you know, you do these things and the then, then I did another one with a different investor and another one with a different investor at around the 10 or 12, I can't remember. But then after a couple of deals they were like, is there any chance we can become like do this together? Like we want to actually have a bit more long term play in this. Like we'd like to own a bit more property or that most of them aren't actually property investors at all. So they're like we'd like to own some property. So then that conversation kind of changes and I think that's where again a lot of people, I say jump into bed for the money and it's the worst thing you can do because JV partnership is like a marriage and you know, you've got to treat that one. So there's again, there's a whole different conversation on that front as well. But, but I think raising money, most of my properties now, well, I've bought four already this year and I haven't used a penny of my money. So I say I could, you know, there's liquid capital there to use. But it's like, why, why bother stressing yourself out if you can borrow money? Like I think Apple have something like a trillion in cash and they still borrow money from people. You know, it's like leveraging money and understanding how to leverage money. Whether it's credit cards, whether it's loans, whether it's whatever, it does not matter. As long as you can borrow at a percentage, make more at this percentage, whatever the net is, then you're winning. Right. And it's, then it's a case of putting all the pieces of the puzzle together about the right deal in the right location to make sure that you're gonna get the money, I. E. You know, the figures I'm quoting, like, you know, if we say, oh, we're gonna make two grand a month net, net and the it's going to tie up, let's say 12 grand. Well, it's going to take me six months to pay you back after I've actually then refinanced and giving you your money, your initial capital back. Or I might do a split pay and it might be like, listen, it's going to take me 12 months because I want to keep a grand for myself and I want, and I want to phase you. Are you okay with that? And as long as you have the conversations up front and everyone knows, worst case scenario, best case scenario, then you know, it all works out. But I think it's, it's definitely a confidence thing, but you definitely don't need to be experienced to make it work.
- [41:41]
A
Yeah. And I have put the Instagram handles in the chat. So again, if you're watching live or on the replay, if you go throw up a story on Instagram, it is Ryan K. Luke 84 and Boostly UK go just put up a story, just say you've been tuning in and then Ryan, I'll message you a link to. Is it 30 day free course on how to raise money?
- [42:04]
B
Yeah, basically, yeah.
- [42:05]
A
Sound all right, brilliant. So let's go to the question then. And I feel like this might be a very common one maybe in your group when the People first come into your, your training program. But it's this is. And I feel like there's a lot of people in the room who are doing what Jamelia is right now. So Jamilia is looking to get started out in service accommodation. How does one go about finding these contractor bookings? Like would you say that it's a gradual process or is it just a case of where you can pick up and start to put the planning in for Q1, Q2, 20, 26. Like if you are somebody right now who's got the tourist, right, you've got the tourist bnb, but you want to flip to this contract to bnb, do more service accommodation. I. What's that first sort of processes that you would recommend that Jamelia could do?
- [42:52]
B
Yeah. So I think if you're already operating tourism, then it's a case of One of my 11 clients who's just come on about four months ago is perfect example of this. So she has two really good tourism properties working well, but doesn't want to do it for the headache reasons and this and that and the other. So I think when most people stumble across the contractor BNB model, they're like, that sounds a lot better long term. So that's, that's kind of like how I phrase it with them. Like, right, well if that's working for tourism, just keep it there, park it there, continue to do that, then focus on getting the right stock that's gonna then turn into the, the contractor business and then eventually you'll have more of that stock, that, that becomes just your main focus. And then obviously your tourism stuff just naturally drifts off or just stays and maintains until you decide what you want to do with it. So, but I think there are certain properties where you can flip them and they will then just by optimizing your calendars and pricing them correctly on the OTAs and, and listing them correctly with the right keywords, right photographs, all that sort of stuff, then you will naturally attract contractor bookings. But then that doesn't fit for every property. So for example, if you've got a two bed apartment in Leeds city center, that's probably not going to fly even if you optimize correctly, even if you're priced correctly, even, you know, if you do all those things. However, if you've got like say a three bed on the outskirts of Leeds city and you've been doing tourism two night, three night sort of bookings, you could quite easily apply that and it would, I would think, you know, turn it into more long, long Long stays, booking. So it's kind of a, it's a difficult question answer but I think if I was, if I was starting brand new, haven't got a property yet, first thing I do is obviously join my academy and I'll show you how to do it properly. But the, the next step really would be that saying okay, I'm not gonna go down the tourism route, I am going to focus on finding the properties and for me it's the largest stock. The problem I find with I guess new people coming into this, even if you are wanting to do rent to rent for your first few is taken on a two and a half, three grand a month rent on a larger property versus a one bed studio flat at you know, 800 quid or whatever it might be. It's a bigger, it's a bigger sort of, you know, psychological thing that you've got to overcome and you've got it and without having the data and the experience and knowing it works, it's difficult to say I'm going to commit to that sort of level of rent on a whim. But I, I personally if I had my whole time again I wouldn't even touch rent to rent, I would just raise money and buy assets.
- [45:48]
A
I think like the most important thing for everybody here who's, who's probably listening or watching this because they are in the tourism, they've got property already. I think most people that are sort of getting my emails and watching our videos and all the social medias is you're part of this because you're already got a tourist spot. I feel like the biggest takeaway I've had from this from listening to you is that yes, you, you may have a ton of contractors in and around your area because you're in a city or a location and they're just coming but you know, just because the people are coming you've then got to match up your property to it and you've got to be able to know what they want. So like you say two, two bed apartment in a, in a city center with no parking. The contractors are going to go, oh yeah, that's cute. But then go to somebody who actually can home them properly like yourself where you've got your three, you're for your five bed, that's got parking, that's got all the, you know, the rooms where it's double bedrooms where people can go and escape because you know that market, you know that nation inside out. So you've, you've got to be able to look at your Property and will it be able to fit the demand of your avatar? And if not, like, like you're saying, you know, if you're doing the rent to rent model, you might be able to just hand that back and go find something else. If you, you know, you want to raise money, yes, it's going to be a longer term game, but use your, your tourism BNB model at the moment to sort of keep you going. By learns Ryan's method, raise the money, find that property, do it out. Because it could take you a good six to eight, ten months to even be in that position where you can, you know, get a property, get it done up and get it on. So it's really important that you not only know your avatar, you look at your properties, get them in board and then, then you can worry about filling them out. And that's what we're going to talk about tomorrow. So tomorrow what we're going to do with, with Reuben, we're going to go through the model on how you can, you know, still have your, your short term rental but where you can start to then also have a medium term rental Airbnb listing as well and an Airbnb MTR account and how you can go start to do this. The final question that I've got is obviously now you've got an academy, you've got a group, hundreds of people in there. One of the biggest things that I've noticed from looking at a couple of MTR academies and masterminds around, around the world is that say you get a reservation request come in for you know, 100 rooms and you know, say that a lot of yours are fully booked out. Do you have other students and do you have a network in your area where you can fill up your property but then you can also go and fill up other people's properties and portfolios as well? Are you actively looking to do that as well in Newcastle or wherever?
- [48:19]
B
Yeah, so we, we do. Well, there's two things within the academy. I've got a WhatsApp community called Host Connect. So it connects hosts all throughout the UK actually. And so they can share bookings, you know, if they're over subscribed. But what we will also do is if we get a like and this happened a few years ago, we got an inquiry for, I think it was like 130 rooms across the northeast or it was at the top of Newcastle because the gig was in Blythe and we could only I think fill about 77 of them or something like that. So through no I mean it was mainly through the people that I've actually mentored from day one within my area and they've built portfolios, obviously got relationships with them. So we just spoke to them and said, you want to piggyback onto this deal? And we just, we didn't make any money off their properties but it helped us sort of get the contract. So we, we just, we had our 77. We filled, you know, five with them, 10 with them and so on and so forth and we did that and that, that gig lasted a while. That was about, I think it was about a nine month gig or a ten month gig, that one. And you know, worked well for everybody. So yeah, we're definitely, I think, you know, at the end of the day if, you know, if you were say you only had three or four units and you did get an inquiry like that, then yeah, it's definitely worth your while to, to go put the pieces of the puzzle together. You know, at the end of the day that's all like comfy workers and people like that do is they just play broker in the middle and they take three pound a night or two pound a night or whatever it is between the two and, and that's how they make their money or they take a fear, you know, so there's no harm in doing that if you want to do that. But for me it was, you know, just getting the 77 for me was fine because it was like 100 occupied in my portfolio and made enough money.
- [50:05]
A
When you, when you do that, sorry and you go and take that 130, you take 77 and you fill it up, are you going to the company and are you just invoicing them for all 130 and then people and then you're putting the money out or are you saying, right, these 77 are coming with me, this chap is going to give you 20 and somebody else is going to give you 30. So you have to do three separate invoices. How does the sort of logistics on something like that work?
- [50:29]
B
No, we, we stay because remember earlier on I mentioned that these big companies just want to deal with one person. So we just, we're the 130 and then it's up to us to sort all the stuff out behind the scenes. Luckily for me I've got a great accountancy team. So you know, they just, you know, we're, we, we've done it for so long and I think you've got to be. I think one of the biggest downfalls I did have when was hitting the fan was my accountancy function probably wasn't up to the level it needed to be. And one thing again, the tourism model versus business model is a lot of these bigger companies, like, you've got to be sending in pro forma invoices on the right dates and this and that and the other. They may have, like, certain payment terms or they take X number of days to get paid out. So if you're not on top of all of that and you don't understand that as well, well, then you could end up waiting for weeks and weeks and weeks to get paid. Well, it's okay if you've got a bit of liquid cash around you, but for the host starting off, who's got bills to pay and, you know, they need their income and this, that, and the other, then, you know, it becomes a problem. So it's like, there's so many different nuances to this model versus the tourism model. But, like, when you. When you know it all, it runs so much easier. Like, it literally is. It's like, you know me. Like, we've known each other for, like, seven. Seven years now. Like, yeah, I was all over the place. Two phones, blah, blah, blah. Now, like, we met up on the beach the other week in. In Dubai.
- [51:48]
A
And, you know, yeah, you're much more relaxed, much more laid back. Much more laid back. Which is. Which is good to see. So, yeah, I feel like there's tons of benefits to it. You've obviously got to get your systems and your things in place first, and you've obviously got to know the portfolio. All right, so if somebody wants to find out more about working with you, is there a domain or do you want people to go to your Instagram? Where are you wanting people to go check you out?
- [52:11]
B
Just go to. I'll pop it in here, actually, and I'll pop a little tag on, and then I know where everyone's come from. Give me one second.
- [52:20]
A
But while you're grabbing that, everybody that is tuned in today, please, just in the chat box, just say thank you to Ryan. It's been very quiet today, day one, I'm gonna let you have day one to be nice and quiet as you get used to this. But day two and day three, I want you to be much more. Much more vocal because we've got plenty of people in here now, obviously, in America, it's. It's early in the morning, so, Adama, thank you. So go to that domain in there. Go in and check it out. I think that's a clickable link. If not. Don't worry. When I send the email out later on today, just for the little recap and the takeaways from today, I'll make sure we mention that if you want that free training on how to raise money. But Ryan mentioned go and tag him Ryan K. Luke84 on an Instagram story again. Just go take a picture of this screen, put it up onto your Instagram, tag us in so we know. And then Ryan will be able to send that to you, but the replay will be available for you to keep on coming back in. And we've got Rodney Brown who says Ryan, I'm on his mentorship program. So it just sounds so good to have you all here. Now these are obviously these video. This training is going to stay around forever. You can come back on this link tomorrow. We're in a new link but you can still get access by just going to the crowdcast. Boost your bookings main one and then it'll be the next video. We have got the Facebook group so you can go in and have a little chat in there if you want. We have got the WhatsApp chat so people know where where we are but this is the main place to come every single day. Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. This is where you're going to be coming. Ryan. Appreciate your time. I've got to go do the school run so we're gonna leave it there but we will be back tomorrow. Appreciate you coming on board buddy and thank you everybody for tuning in. Having a blast gonna get it on the Bruce Lee PO Bruce Lee like Bruce Lee cause it's so hard and the T is loose leaf making up those rhymes don't write it just do it loosely.