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- [00:00]
Mark Simpson
Max Simpson, the mastermind behind Bruce Lee.
- [00:02]
Orel Planner
You don't have a business, you have a job and Brian Chesky is your boss.
- [00:06]
Mark Simpson
But I kind of disagree with this statement.
- [00:09]
Orel Planner
In the world of hospitality, if you break it down to what we're selling, we are selling an experience. The problem is what happens when that plate stops. Anybody who works with me, I want to get you to 65% direct.
- [00:19]
Mark Simpson
Well, my opinion, direct bookings, to have a quality layer of bookings that you don't get with Airbnb, because it's all.
- [00:25]
Orel Planner
About building a database that we've got a new demographic now with traveler coming out of COVID So how do you.
- [00:31]
Mark Simpson
See the difference between Dubai, other markets.
- [00:33]
Orel Planner
The different rules and regulations here that you may not see elsewhere? And you've got to be here to understand it. For example, with the tourism board where they make sure that you have to hand all of your guests IDs in within a certain time frame.
- [00:47]
Mark Simpson
Welcome to another episode of Connecting Dots with Orel Planner. In this episode we are joined by Mark Simpson, the mastermind behind Busly, the number one recommended agency in the short term rental industry for direct bookings. Mark has been recognized as one of the top 20 most influential people in the vacation rental industry at longer and has helped property manager over £50 million in direct bookings. His mission, maybe he can explain it later. So welcome to the show.
- [01:20]
Orel Planner
Yeah, thank you.
- [01:22]
Mark Simpson
So, yes, explain a little bit about your journey and about your mission.
- [01:25]
Orel Planner
Yeah, so first of all, thank you. That's a lovely intro. Yeah. So my, my mission is to help operators, hosts, vacation rental managers, however you want to describe yourself, grow the business on their own terms. I am one of the rare breeds. I was born in hospitality. I grew up in a, in a hotel in the UK in Scarborough. It was a 200 acre farm that had accommodation on it and it was like one of the first farm stay accommodation businesses in like our area. And I grew up in this industry. I've tried my best to leave and escape it, but it keeps dragging me back. Spent many years coaching football or soccer in America for all of like the early 90s and then came back to the business in 2010. And then between 2010 and 2016 I was in it full time and I was helping my parents basically get online before, before I came back into the family business. They'd had it for 25 years. So they didn't have a PMS like Mr. Alfred. They had none of that. No website, no social media, it was all done on pen and paper. A lot of Tip X. A lot of scribbling out, a lot of double bookings, but my role is basically to get it online, get it into social media, basically drag it into the 21st century. And then in 2016, I noticed that there was a lot of hosts in our area, in this, in Scarborough, that were struggling with selling and marketing their business. They would put a business. They put a listing on booking.com, airbnb, Expedia, and that was it. And they were sort of struggling with. With getting bookings. And I started helping a few people and it went down well. I created a Facebook group called the Hospitality Community Facebook group, which is still going to this day. And I just started putting daily tips in there to show them how they can increase their direct bookings. And, like, with anything online, especially in 2016, if something works, it drags attention. And we had people trying to join that group, not from Scarver, which is my local area, but from all over the world, with people from, like, America and Australia and France and Spain joining the group. So I saw that there's a need for this. It wasn't just like my little area of the world, it was like a worldwide thing. And the core principle is I can help you get bookings, but most importantly, I can show you how to do it where you're not relying on Airbnb sort of dictating your business. And I just. I just made a plan, made a mission to, you know, I put a stupidly high number of a million people, so I want to help a million people grow their, you know, grow their business on. On their own terms. And it's just taken. Taken off from there. It's started just me in a kitchen. 2016, and now we have 1,200 clients around the world. Predominantly, we do website design, but we also do training, coaching, education. And we now have a. A CRM as well, that we. We. We package all into this package. It's called the Bookings Booster Package.
- [04:34]
Mark Simpson
And.
- [04:34]
Orel Planner
And, yeah, it's a worldwide brand. It's growing all the time, and I'm just very, very lucky to be part of it.
- [04:41]
Mark Simpson
Very good. And you said you work around the world, you work in the us, in Canada and the UK mainly. Also you have clients in Dubai, I think you were mentioning before.
- [04:51]
Orel Planner
Yeah, I would say 60% is America and Canada. We have 5%, 10% over in Australia, New Zealand, and then the rest is probably scattered between the uk, Dubai, Middle east and mainland Europe.
- [05:09]
Mark Simpson
And when you started, Airbnb was very predominant already, or what was the stage.
- [05:14]
Orel Planner
Of airbnb so obviously 2016 had been going for just under 10 years in America. In the UK, it was growing, but it was still booking.com was the main.
- [05:27]
Mark Simpson
Player even, even with holiday homes and with.
- [05:32]
Orel Planner
Yeah. And Expedia, but yeah, holiday. So the thing about booking.com is that they were created for the hotel market and they've had to pivot and create their own office around, like, short term rentals. With obviously the emergence of Airbnb. Airbnb have changed how the industry works. So in the UK, we sort of had this halfway house between booking.com Expedia, obviously there and then Airbnb was, was on the rise, but you had like other little smaller OTAs that were doing things as well in, in the UK.
- [06:04]
Mark Simpson
But, and, and how did you, how, how did you see the evolution or the change or the shift in the industry when Airbnb has become or became more predominant?
- [06:14]
Orel Planner
You know what, you know, what I've noticed is that, and this, especially in America, is nobody around there walks around going, I'm staying in a booking dot com. No one walks around saying, I'm staying in a, in a vrbo. Everyone says, I'm staying in an Airbnb. And then the people who build their online brand, their social media brand saying, I'm Airbnb hosts. So it's, I think in 2015, Airbnb had just under 15% of the market share. By 2030, they're predicted to have 65% of the market share, which is a massive shift. Like, they've not only caught up with booking.com and the Expedia Group, they've overtaken them to the point where now, like I say, people go around calling themselves, you know, Airbnb coaches and Airbnb hosts, and I'm staying in an Airbnb, you know, and I, I got up on stage, I, I was very fortunate to be invited to speak in America. I went to Nashville. We're in this, this huge arena and it was like a thousand people there. And I got up in front of everybody and I just said, if you've got over 90% of your bookings that are coming from Airbnb, you don't have a business, you have a job and Brian Chesky is your boss. And I said, it's your own fault, is literally your own fault, because you are walking around branding yourselves as Airbnbs. You're not branding yourself as your own business. You're not, you know, talking about your own company here. And, and that's a big problem. And like I say, I'M here to sort of like give people a bit of a shake, disrupt their thinking and sort of go, well, let's build this on your own, bro.
- [07:49]
Mark Simpson
So not to be the challenger here, but I kind of disagree with this statement. So my position is that you outsource sales to another company. Hospitality is extremely complicated, especially in short term rentals. You need to acquire apartments, you need to, need to manage landlords, you need to do check in, checkout, cleaning, laundry. So if there is a company that has really solved the problem of getting guests from anywhere in the world to your door, handles the payments, why you cannot work with them? They are very expensive. Yes, they are very expensive, but why you cannot work with these type of companies, especially if you are building a company, have a lot of costs and again, you need to focus probably on the core things that you have best. And you are a super expert in marketing, direct bookings and all this. But not everyone is. So if someone that is a bit more weak in marketing and sales can outsource this to probably the best brand in hospitality, why not?
- [08:55]
Orel Planner
So I agree, but there's a couple of things here. Number one is you're right, they do all of the work, they do all of the marketing, they do all of the things and then they give you the sale. So in, in the world of hospitality, if you break it down to what we're selling, we are selling an experience. So the reason why people come and stay with us is that for, for the experience, there is no other industry out there that sell what we sell.
- [09:21]
Mark Simpson
Correct.
- [09:22]
Orel Planner
It's very in demand. Even during the biggest disruptor to our industry, which was Covid, people were still looking to travel. They, they, they work hard all year to, to have a vacation or, or whatever. So about, that's number one. And so with that there's a ton of demand and we are very lucky in this industry that there are two maybe free websites that you can start a business today. So I could go and take over this apartment today, I can take a couple of nice pictures and there's free websites that I can go onto that will pretty much be guaranteed revenue, right? Depending on the market, time of the year, et cetera. That's, that's number one. That is a blessing. We do website design. There is not an Airbnb of website design, right? This where I have got to do sales and marketing after got to literally drag people to come and do business with me. So that's a blessing. It's a curse because it is so easy that people become over reliant and when you become over reliant and you've got all of these plates spinning. So for an operator who's doing the management model, it's I've got to take care of staff, I've got to get hold of apartments, I've got to do sales for homeowners, I've got to do all of that. When it comes to the actual getting the guest, you just look at that plate that's spinning, that sales plate, that marketing plate, just go, yeah, Airbnb have got this right. The problem is what happens when that plate stops spinning. And that plate can stop spinning for a number of reasons. Number one, you could just drop off the algorithm. Number two, you could get a couple of crappy reviews. Number three, your listing could get suspended. There's loads of reasons why that plate could stop spinning. And I am not advocating for any company to just go cold turkey and leave Airbnb. You've got to instead use them as a lead generation tool. So my whole goal, anybody who works with me, I want to get you to 65% direct. That leaves 35% to be OTAs. And the reason why that number is that eventually, if you're doing this as a career, you want to be able to start it, grow it, scale it, and potentially exit one day. And anybody who is looking to acquire any business, the first thing that you look at is where are the revenue streams coming from? And if you're an investor in a potential company and if you see 90% of the revenue coming from one source, that is a risky investment. You want to make sure there's multiple revenue streams coming in. And if I can show you how to not only just Tap into Airbnb, booking.com, expedia, but also have Direct, because Direct has multiple strands of revenue as well. You've got, you've got email, you've got ads, you've got sales, you've got all of those.
- [12:05]
Mark Simpson
WhatsApp. I think WhatsApp is growing.
- [12:07]
Orel Planner
What's that? There's so many verticals that you can drive. Drive bookings from. It's about building a business that is sustainable and that can grow on. On your rules. Because we all focus on the money. They'd one of the biggest kickbacks, when I've talk about that, the biggest kickback is that will Airbnb only take 3% depending on your model, 3% commission. But I'm like, yeah, that's sound. But don't just focus on the money. Because when any, anytime a booking comes from airbnb you always feel like you've got a big brother that's looking over your booking. And the guest knows this. The guest knows that if they complain at any point to Airbnb, for Airbnb will more likely side with the guest over, over the host. And they use that as a tool to, you know, to threaten bad reviews. Because the host reliant on that five star review. Anything less than a five star review, if you drop below 4.8 now on Airbnb, your listening is deemed not very good, which is bananas, right? And the guests know this. And so when a booking comes from Airbnb, if a guest complains, the host will bend over backwards because they are afraid that the guest will then leave a bad review or even worse, get the money back by going to Airbnb. Now, if you've got a direct booking and a guest has got an issue, yeah, you can deal with them, you can work with them to have a resolution. But you're not fearing the bad review, you're not fearing the drop of algorithm. You know what I mean? A host is so scared to cancel a booking because if you cancel a booking, it's one of the easiest ways of losing your super host status that everybody is so obsessed with. You know what I mean? And that is why I'm not saying to people, listen, I'm not saying to cancel your listing. I'm not saying to go 100% direct. Being 100% direct is as bad as being 100% Airbnb. It's about making sure you've got a sustainable business that's got multiple revenue streams and you don't over rely on a platform to bring your revenue in.
- [13:59]
Mark Simpson
Yeah, totally agree. I mean, in my opinion, it's. It's about diversification.
- [14:02]
Orel Planner
Yeah.
- [14:03]
Mark Simpson
I mean, don't get me wrong, when I talk about also channels, I mean all channels. So I think 90% Airbnb is a huge mistake. I think 30, 30, 30, 25, 20 is a very good market share for upper channel. Obviously we can grow the direct even more. But in my opinion also the direct booking is not a matter of market share. It's a matter of the type of customers also that you attract. Right? You can have less than 60% but have the best guests or bookings or have the ones that book more in advance. So you need to nurture very well. In my opinion, direct bookings to have a quality layer of bookings that you don't get with Airbnb because maybe you don't control them. With direct bookings, you can Go to the people that you want and try to convince them.
- [14:47]
Orel Planner
Right.
- [14:48]
Mark Simpson
Corporate travelers. Again, people that book in advance, families. The families book much more in advance than non families. And everyone prefers to have a family than a group of friends.
- [14:59]
Orel Planner
Well, it's why I put that book together, the book Direct Playbook is because you're right, so many people will come into me going you know how to sell the market, but I don't. So I was like, well it's easy. All I am literally doing is taking tips that have been around since the dawn of time and just putting it into our world. And I kept getting asked, asked the same question. So I thought, right, sorry, I'm going to put it in a book. So I brought the book out and it's got 101 tips in there. Because there isn't just one type of guest that you can nurture. This is all about building a database. And building a database is key because when you've got a database of emails, phone numbers, first name, last names, whether it's leisure, corporate or everybody, then it is so much easier to market. If you have got last minute availability or if you want to pre book out your Q4 bookings of 2025, if you've got a database of people that you can email to, send SMS messages to, WhatsApp messages to, it's you're much more likely that you are going to do it than if you're just going to put a post out on Instagram and hope that the algorithm God's favoring down on you.
- [16:01]
Mark Simpson
Yeah, I agree. Very good. And then so also one of the of the things that I wanted to get your pick, your brain is in the different markets that you're operating. Yeah. So as you said, you operate in us, Canada as the main markets. UK also.
- [16:17]
Orel Planner
Yeah.
- [16:18]
Mark Simpson
So. So first, how do you see the global short term rental? Airbnb I think released the 2024 results couple of days ago. They, they grow 12% I think year on year in bookings which is good for industry as global.
- [16:33]
Orel Planner
Yeah.
- [16:34]
Mark Simpson
But how you see the industry going? Moving because Al. Sorry. Yeah. Also there is this mergers. No, I think an acquisition in the last also couple of months we had two big ones.
- [16:44]
Orel Planner
Yeah.
- [16:45]
Mark Simpson
So how do you see the market going?
- [16:47]
Orel Planner
Yeah. So whenever Airbnb release their numbers they say they have grown to a biggest player. Now we have to pay attention to what they're saying because the data that they have is probably some of the best data that is out there. All of those stats that I saw one of the interesting Ones to me is that one in every five bookings is over 30 days stays. So Airbnb now are starting to bring out other talking about bringing out more products and services to cater for those types of travelers. And a 30 day stay could be a number of reasons. It could be a contractor, it could be an insurance day, for example, family that have had to get relocation, or it could be digital nomads. And I know that in Dubai here there's been a 12% growth on the amount of people who are digital nomads who are coming to travel here staying for more than 30 day stays. And I feel like this type of demographic of traveler started during COVID Obviously people weren't having to be in the office anymore. They were being able to work from home. And because of that people were going, well, if I'm going to work from home, I might as well work from by the beach or there's some places they want to work from. And I feel like it's a combination of that with the whole Gen Z mindset. Now the Gen Z mindset is not to own, it's to, is to rent. So for example, in America, so many more people now aren't buying cars, they're relying on, you know, taxis and Ubers and whatnot. They're not buying houses as much now. They're doing, they're doing like, you know, short term rentals or medium term rentals. And I feel like that is what I find fascinating, not so much Dubai, not so much America, but, but worldwide now, is that there's a new demographic of traveler and for, for operators who are watching this, so many more people now are pivoting their model because if you've got a guest who's staying for 30 days, then it's much more easier on operations, much more easier on linen, you know, and again, you don't have to always be scrambling to find, instead of finding, you know, people who are going to stay two, three nights, four nights, seven nights, you just have to find one person who can stay for, for a month. And it, it's a different avatar, it's a different type of guest, it's a different way that you present your list and different way you market. But those are the sort of things that I'm finding fascinating is that we've got a new demographic now with traveler coming out of, of COVID And then.
- [19:15]
Mark Simpson
You also have clients in Dubai. So how do you see the difference between Dubai, other markets and what our audience can learn from, from what happened abroad?
- [19:24]
Orel Planner
Yeah, so I have been coming to Dubai for many years. But it wasn't until the scale event in October when I came out, when I got to speak to a lot of operators and the different rules and regulations here that you may not see elsewhere. And I feel that there's a lot of vendors who came over to the first time, other PMS providers, other operations providers who came here that weren't aware of maybe the, as many rules and regulations that there are maybe elsewhere. And I feel like because of that there's, you've got to be here to understand it. For example, with the, the tourism board where they make sure that you have to hand all of your guests IDs within a certain time frame. So it's like a, is it like a couple of hours after they stay or 72 hours before arrival? So things like that really interest me. And where, what is happening really fast in the short term rental market doesn't matter what area in America, uk, Dubai, Australia is the regulation is coming thick and fast. Before COVID there wasn't really a lot of regulation, if any, and so many markets are having to pivot because of the new rules and regulations that are coming in. It's at the core of it, what governments want to do is they want to make this industry more professional. And it's obviously been driven by the hotel companies because obviously it's. The Airbnb has done one thing. It's made anybody can start a business on that platform and do really well. But without regulation, you've got the professional players, but you've also got a lot of bad actors. The people who literally go on Instagram and they say, they talk about all the riches that come with short term rentals, but then their operations that they run, you know, aren't very good. And so regulation is coming to, to get rid of the bad actors, to make sure that it's only professionals that are in this industry. And fair regulation is fair. But as with anything with governments, as things are getting pushed through, there's a lot of agendas and people are trying to lobby for other things they attach their agenda onto, like the main agenda that's going through and when regulation is done incorrectly, when it, and when it's, when it's being pushed through in some areas, as it has been where it's been driven because people are complaining about the lack of housing, lack of opportunities for people to get on the housing ladder when it's not, you can read between the lines here. And because of that, unfair regulation comes in. For example, Barcelona businesses have just been, you know, One day you've got a short term rental, next minute I would ban on it. So it's, it's. How do you navigate that rocky landscape is, is what I find that's fascinating right now. And, and it's, it's, it's one you obviously got to keep, keep attention to. And I think my advice to every operator who is watching this wherever you are in the world is you'd much rather be at the table than being the lunch. So my what I mean by that is where you can try and get to local council meetings, try and get in the ear of the people who are making these decisions because they're using their decision makings on what other people are telling them and they need like your guidance on this. And so many people now are having to, operators are having to talk about spinning out, spinning all those plates. There's another plate disappeared now which has been like, you know, going to the, you know, council meetings and being in the ears of it and making sure that, you know your business is going to be here.
- [23:08]
Mark Simpson
Yeah. Here in Dubai when it comes to regulations, we are quite flexible.
- [23:14]
Orel Planner
Yeah.
- [23:14]
Mark Simpson
I mean there is not a very strict regulation. On the other hand that has generated an oversupply in the market and all the operators in Dubai are suffering that oversupply.
- [23:23]
Orel Planner
Yeah.
- [23:23]
Mark Simpson
So but anyway, that's free market. It's auto regulates.
- [23:27]
Orel Planner
Yeah.
- [23:27]
Mark Simpson
When you have a lot of holiday homes, the price goes down and people move to long term rentals.
- [23:33]
Orel Planner
Yeah.
- [23:33]
Mark Simpson
And then the prices will regulate. So I think that's the best way. Of course regulations are important. I agree with you. And here the, the struggle is this quality control. Not only this part of the quality control. Okay, very good. So can you give us like the top five tips from the book?
- [23:51]
Orel Planner
Top five tips from the book. Well, the first one and the first chapter is about your ideal guest avatar. And this is really important because when people get going in business, they just want to take on any money that is given to them. And you have to, as you grow and you say yes to everything. But over time, as you grow, what you need to, what you need to do is you need to make sure that you build that business on, on your terms, which a big part of that is making sure that you're the guests that are walking through your door as your ideal avatar. Again, the most mistake that people make is that they try and appeal to everybody. And when you appeal to everybody, you appeal to nobody. So in the book it talks about how to discover what your avatar is. Your ideal guest is how to Find them and how to market to them and when you've got that. So for example, if our farm stay business, it was obvious that our appeal was that families can come and stay on a working farm. So our ideal guest, our avatar was, was young families from the cities that were about two hours drive away that they could come and stay with you for, you know, however long and they get to live on a farm for how many days that they were there. Obviously our avatar was not a couple who wanted to come nightclubbing, you know, appear like rocking up on the farm with that, with their heels. That's not our avatar. So we never appealed to them. But by focusing on who we attracted, who we were made for, it made marketing and sales so much easier because our website was speaking to our ideal guests, our marketing was speaking to ideal guests, our listings were speaking to ideal guests. So every single person, well, 90% of people that walk through the door were ideal brand. And when you do that, life just becomes easier because everybody who walks through the door is going to be a five star review. That's the, that's the main big tip. And the other big tip from the book is that you have to spend the first 30 minutes of every day doing new business sales. The biggest problem in this industry is that we just over rely on the OTAs to drive us bookings. If you can spend the first 30 minutes of your day doing new business sales, so whatever that may be, sending that email, sending that post on Facebook, looking for that introduction to it to like a new partner or whatever, you do it consistently. Then again you do the compound effect. If you do it over a year, two year, three years, it's so much easier to do this thing called business.
- [26:19]
Mark Simpson
Very good. So now, I mean it's a very good segue. Let's go to your sales. So you're very strong in LinkedIn in personal branding. I don't know when you started doing a personal like building public. I don't know if you build in public or how you call it. But can you explain us why you do it? What brings you in terms of business, in terms of person personal.
- [26:43]
Orel Planner
So I've done it since day one. When I first got going in Boostly, which was 2016, I was watching a lot of Gary Vee on YouTube and he talks a lot about document over creation. So document in the journey. Because people like to people like a story, right? People buy from people they don't really like, buying from like nameless faceless brands. And I thought well that's just easy. I Like creating content. I like posting on social media. I've come from the. From the generation that, you know, was. Was we not had sort of social media, but I know how to post online, on how to do it, and I know how to create content. And a lot of people shy away from showing their true personality.
- [27:29]
Mark Simpson
But.
- [27:29]
Orel Planner
But what I did first is I built the community and then I build the business on top of it. And there wasn't many vendors in our space who were posting content, if any. And so my, you know, I started posting content and literally on LinkedIn, I started going to events, people like, oh, yeah, the. The guy's posting content because nobody else was. Now everybody does, right? But for me, I've been posting my journey since, like 2016 document. And the high points, but the shitty points as well, the low points, because nobody talks about the low points. Nobody talks about. And I find that by doing both, it makes me feel more real. People can trust wherever you are. And I say people like to follow the journey. So I've done that since day one.
- [28:15]
Mark Simpson
And which, I mean, what would you say to the people that want to do it? But maybe it's a bit shy or a bit. Any tip on how to do it, but just do it.
- [28:27]
Orel Planner
The advice is just do it. Yeah, but that's just. It's gonna be crap when you start. When I look back at how I got going, it was just me and a crappy iPhone. And, you know, but I did it and I. I did it consistently for a month, every day for a month. And, you know, after the, the sort of. The rule is if you do something consistently over 23 days, it just becomes routine. Just becomes as routine as brushing your teeth. And I thought, right, if I can do it every day, it just becomes normal. And now it is just. Just normal. So you just got to start. And don't post content for other people. Post it for you. Because now I can look back on nine years worth of doing this every single day, and, you know, there's some really cool memories that come up on my phone. And, you know, I started this when my eldest was four and my second child was only a year old. So I've grown the business, documented all. But I can also see how it's grown around the kids as well, which has been. Which has been awesome. But, yeah, just start.
- [29:28]
Mark Simpson
Very good. And lately you have been posting a lot about AI, which is the new trend in the industry. Well, in the industry, in the world of technology. So what have you been experimenting with?
- [29:40]
Orel Planner
Yeah, so apart from Gary Vee When I first got going, Tim Ferriss was another big sort of person I looked up to online and his whole shtick was that he was a guinea pig for people and he then took that what he was learning and put it into words that he could explain. And I've always tried to do that with hospitality. So I read, watch, listen to a range of topics but whatever I learn is how can I take that and explain it to somebody who is a short term rental operator or in hospitality? And AI is no different. I did the exact same thing with NFTS and I did the same thing with crypto and I looked at everything that comes and I goes, how can I explain it? If I think that it's not going to work, I don't bother. But I could see with AI the instant wins that it would have for so many people and I started messing about with it when OpenAI announced chat GPT and it, I've just gone further down the rabbit hole as, as we go and yeah, we, we now at Boostly we, we use chat GPT that helps build out our websites, we show people how to use chat GPT to create content. We, we've even created AI sales reps now within our CRM and we have tapped into something where it reads the website that we create creates a little chatbot widget in the bottom right hand corner and that Widget now is 24 7. So if a guest lands on it even at 1 o' clock in the morning, ask questions, it is trained based on the copy on the website and the information that's in the guidebook for example, or the PMS and it will be able to answer all the questions and get a booking out of it. So we're tapping into it more.
- [31:21]
Mark Simpson
And what are the two or three things that you see that can transform the industry the most? And it can be direct bookings, it can be any other aspect of the holiday homes.
- [31:30]
Orel Planner
Well, the first easy win is guest communication. It's such an easy win because again, AI ChatGPT, large language models, they can only work off the data is provided with, right? And the more data you can give it, the better. And so if you were a guest who is looking to find a place to stay and you're on this website or wherever, you're going to be asking questions that it can just read off a website or a guidebook or whatever and be able to give that response to guest communication. Number number one is the easiest win. Moving forward, who knows where we can go down? There's obviously with sales AI LLM models, you've got potentially something that could be messaging people on your behalf on say LinkedIn or sending emails while you sleep, sort of introducing your brand and your business and what you do and who knows where we can potentially go from there. But it's, there's loads of short term wins that I can see, medium term wins and long term wins by tapping into this AI. I think we're 20, 25 now, so we're in the start of what is going to be AI agents. It's going to be everywhere by the end of this year. Seeing companies are tapping in.
- [32:50]
Mark Simpson
I think OpenAI just released also agents.
- [32:52]
Orel Planner
Yeah, yeah, they released Operator, which is if you pay in $200 a month, you get access to it. I had a little dabble with it and it can help you, you know, book accommodation and things like that. It's still at its infancy, but this technology is moving rapidly and before you know it, these phones are going to have it built into, into Apple, into, into Android. And you'll notice that it really takes off when it impacts the everyday user, not business owners who are maybe tapped into this. It's like, you know, the average Joe who is using this to automatically do things for them.
- [33:28]
Mark Simpson
And any other piece of technology that you think that is maybe not developed enough in the industry that you say, like for example, many years ago we would say the smart locks, right. Anything that you see in the industry happening or AI is going to monopolize the conversation and the innovation.
- [33:44]
Orel Planner
I think the next thing is going to be voice AI. So voice AI sales. I think that there's going to be a case and point in time where any digital message that you get online, you're going to doubt if it's from a human or a robot. And the next evolution of that is where voice. So you'll have a phone call and again you won't know if it's going to be a human or if it's going to be a robot speaking to you on the other end.
- [34:09]
Mark Simpson
I was this morning with the startup that is doing that and in our space and you were talking to someone to chatbot in any language and it was answering in text, in your language. So in two, three languages you could like the guy was talking another language. It was talking another language and it was taking the information from your listing.
- [34:32]
Orel Planner
Yeah, yeah. I mean I have dabbled with the AI voice and it's not quite there. It has long, awkward pauses. It's, it's a bit.
- [34:43]
Mark Simpson
But if the answer is texts, you don't need. You don't mind that much in the way use the text. Right.
- [34:49]
Orel Planner
I find that the AI sales reps that are there right now, it has to be based on very strict script. If it goes off that it's not the best, but that will change.
- [34:59]
Mark Simpson
Yeah. But also the virtual assistants human need to have a script.
- [35:03]
Orel Planner
Yeah, absolutely. So it is going to be impacted, I feel. So I always look at. What do I look at now that 30 years ago my parents were doing that. I think that was archaic. Right. And I'm thinking in 30 years time when my kids, I'm chatting to my kids, what will they look back on our time thinking what we did was archaic. And I feel like the next level of all of this is that there won't be any translation issues. I've got a pair of those meta Ray Bans and now it's built in where if I'm wearing those glasses, if I'm downtown and you know, I'm looking at a menu that's in another language, it will instantly translate it into my language. And it's only going to get quicker and smarter where, you know, at the moment you have to have that awkward conversation with Google Translate where you say, you know, speak to somebody who has that really long pause that's not going to be there. I feel like translation is going to be something that will never be, never be an issue.
- [35:58]
Mark Simpson
Yeah, I agree. For me, the next transformation is voice. We will not use the hands, anything, anywhere, and voice is translation.
- [36:04]
Orel Planner
Yeah.
- [36:05]
Mark Simpson
The problem is this is that you will not know who you're talking to. And that is a bit scary.
- [36:11]
Orel Planner
Yeah. But I mean, we've always adapted. I feel like if you were to say a lot of things to our parents 30, 40 years ago, and this is going to be the next step, they'll go, wow, that's scary. I mean, even if you look at Airbnb, so many investors passed upon it because the premise of you letting strangers stay in your house, too much for too many people. And those investors that passed upon that opportunity, they've passed off on an absolute unicorn. But we've adapted and we as humans, we adapt rapidly. And I feel like the next evolution is coming so fast. And the worry is for me is the entrepreneurs, the business owners and the people who just bury their head in the sand and go, it's not for me. I feel like you're going to be left behind. Quick.
- [36:54]
Mark Simpson
Very good. So we're reaching an end. Before finishing, I want to also thank BNB me, who is the our friends that allow us to record this podcast in this beautiful location. We have Burj Khalifa, I don't know, it's in the camera, but we have Burj Khalifa behind us and that's quite unique here in Dubai. And I always end with a question, which is where do you seek inspiration in terms of podcast books, people?
- [37:22]
Orel Planner
I watch a lot of YouTube videos. I listen to a lot of audiobooks. Um, so, yeah, YouTube audiobooks, anything that you can recommend. If you're looking for the industry, the short term rental industry, there's a really good podcast, Good morning hospitality. Really good. They, they do industry from like the usa, Europe and further afield business on a whole. I really enjoy the. Well, more marketing. I love everything marketing. So there's a podcast called the Marketing School Podcast which is four episodes a week and it talks about everything. And there's a new podcast that I've started listening to, talking about AI that is 100% created by AI. So it's an AI voice, AI everything is done by perplexity. It's a five minute daily podcast and it takes all the news that's from around the world and it condenses it. They do a little bit on AI, they do a little bit on cool topics and it is done so well. Six minutes. So for me to drive to the gym every day, it's like six minutes. I have it in the car and that's where I keep up to date with, with like topical stuff. Outside of that, I don't really pay attention to current events in the news and everything like that. So those are the podcasts and things that I sort of stay up to date with.
- [38:39]
Mark Simpson
Very good. So thanks for joining us once again. I hope you enjoy the chat and for the rest of of the audience, like, see you in the next episode.
- [38:47]
Orel Planner
Having a blast. Gonna get it on the Bruce Lee podcast. Bruce Lee, like Bruce Lee. Cause it's so hard on the T is loose leaf making up those rhymes. Don't write it, just do it loosely.