482: High-Functioning Burnout Exposed: Relationship Resentment

Summary

Podcast Summary:

The Bossbabe Podcast
Episode 482 – High-Functioning Burnout Exposed: Relationship Resentment
Host: Natalie Ellis
Guests: Lexi, Emily, Norma
Date: September 11, 2025

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Overview

This episode dives deep into the complex dynamics behind high-functioning burnout in ambitious women, especially as it plays out in intimate relationships. The conversation centers on the hidden resentment that can fester when women are always “holding it together” — at work, at home, and in partnerships — and how this emotional labor, coupled with the lack of vulnerability and self-intimacy, can erode connection. The hosts explore the epidemic of relational dysfunction among successful women who are outwardly thriving and yet inwardly depleted, offering insights and practical frameworks for shifting these patterns. The discussion is raw, personal, and packed with takeaways for listeners navigating similar challenges.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Real Roots of Resentment

• [00:00] – Lexi reflects on the experience of being unseen and unheld in relationships:

  • Many high-achieving women feel understood only for what they give.
  • Over-functioning and emotional labor often lead to a hidden, powerful resentment.
  • “You cannot keep asking to be met while refusing to meet yourself.” – Lexi [00:50]

• [02:07] – The “high-functioning codependent”:

  • High-performance can mask codependency as hyper-independence.
  • The need to be everything for everyone is a safety strategy.
  • This approach ends up generating burnout and unfulfilled relational needs.

• [03:53] – When ambition leaves women empty:

  • The dilemma of wanting to feel cherished while being stuck in a masculine “doing mode.”
  • Resentment builds not just from a partner’s lack, but from self-abandonment.

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2. The Shifted Dynamic in Modern Relationships

• [04:01-07:55] – Norma and Emily discuss paradigm shifts:

  • Women now financially and professionally outperforming expectations, leading to role confusion.

  • Reverse polarity: women seek respect for achievement, men feel emasculated and seek appreciation.

  • “Deep down, our woman wants to be adored… but there’s no room because we’re not even making room for her.” – Norma [05:58]

  • Notable Quote:

    “Wherever there is resentment, there is self-betrayal.” – Emily [07:10]

  • Micro self-betrayals add up (doing things you don’t want to do, not voicing needs).

  • The antidote is self-cherishing before expecting it from a partner.

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3. Reclaiming Value Beyond Achievement

• [08:45-11:36] – Redefining inherent female value:

  • Social conditioning shifted from being “marriageable” to professionally accomplished.
  • Value in relationship comes not from output, but from radiance, joy, vulnerability.
  • Intimacy practice starts with self-listening and emotional awareness.

• [11:39] – The fallacy of expecting partners to hold space we don’t hold for ourselves:

  • “We can't even hold space for our own emotions. And we expect our partner to meet us there.” – Emily [11:39]
  • Men are often more sensitive than women assume, and receptive to soft, vulnerable communication, not blame.

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4. Liberation Through Self-Responsibility

• [13:37-18:26] – Resistance to “emotional labor”:

  • The commonly voiced “Why should I have to do more?” is reframed as “doing different, not more.”
  • Taking ownership of desires is vulnerable but transformative.
  • “Complaints are lazy desires” – complaints usually mask deeper needs that require intimacy to reveal.

• [18:26-21:48] – Key shift: orienting personal growth away from “fixing the relationship” toward becoming the woman you want to be:

  • Emily shares her pivotal moment: “Why aren't you being that woman now?” [19:05]
  • 90-day experiment of focusing solely on self, not the relationship—leading to a renewal of her marriage.

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5. The Power of Choosing Yourself

• [21:48-27:06] – Facing the gravity of change:
  • Real risk: for many, “choosing you” threatens profound life changes (kids, business entanglements).
  • The journey includes uncertainty, guilt, and emotional excavation.
  • Concrete changes: reducing workload, stepping into joy (dance, rest), and letting go of control.
  • “Who am I without the roles?” – profound identity work.

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6. Relationships as Mirrors & Activation Points

• [27:06-31:39] – Relationships often trigger old wounds:

  • “You likely attracted the person who's going to trigger you more than anybody ever will.” – Norma [27:24]

  • The fights about “the sock on the floor” are surrogates for deeper needs: not feeling seen, held, validated.

  • Self-intimacy and inner child work allow reactivity to soften, creating space for deeper connection.

  • After real self-work, you can finally “see the man in front of you versus the problem” [30:22].

  • Notable Quote:

    “After 13 years together, our real relationship started — we met the true selves, not the guards.” – Emily [31:19]

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7. Respect & Cherishing: Practical Applications

• [33:16-36:58] – Respect (men) versus cherishing (women):

  • For men: Feeling respected comes from appreciation of small acts, not just achievement.
  • “Men are always asking—am I winning? Is this a green light?” – Norma [36:16]
  • For women: Unworthiness and ‘not enoughness’ are the core wounds; cherishing is the medicine.

• [36:58-40:16] – How to tangibly offer respect and ask for cherishing:

  • Express thanks and gentle affirmations for minor efforts (“Thanks, babe.”).
  • Ask your partner directly: “What’s a small thing I could do that would make you feel cherished or respected?”
  • The “30-day appreciation challenge” had a dramatic effect on relationships.
  • Women must also actively make space for their own rest, pleasure, and friendships — filling themselves up first.

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8. Letting Go of Control & Enabling Leadership

• [40:20-42:54] – The discomfort (and liberation) of releasing control:

  • Learning to trust your partner to handle things their own way, without micromanaging.
  • “You titrated yourself—slowly, slowly do it.” – Norma [41:24]
  • Not trusting or controlling signals “I don’t believe you can lead.”
  • The “white knuckle car” analogy: you can’t both lead and want your partner to lead.

• [42:54] – Final reflection:

  • If you don’t yet have what you want, it’s because you don’t yet have the capacity for it. But you can build it.
  • “How do I get out of my own way?” is the central inquiry.

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• Lexi:

  “You cannot keep asking to be met while refusing to meet yourself… that quiet resentment you’re carrying—that’s unspoken desire, that is unmet truth.” [00:50]

• Emily:

  “Wherever there is resentment, there is self-betrayal.” [07:10] “We can’t even hold space for our own emotions. And we expect our partner to meet us there.” [11:39] “After 13 years together, our real relationship started — we met the true selves, not the guards.” [31:19]

• Norma:

  “You likely attracted the person who’s going to trigger you more than anybody ever will.” [27:24]

• Lexi:

  “Who am I without the roles?” [24:23] “How do I let my man lead?… We’re sitting in the car white-knuckling, and we’re still driving the car with our energy.” [41:51]

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Actionable Takeaways

• Start with Yourself:
  Identify and meet your own emotional needs first, before expecting your partner to do so.

  • Cultivate self-cherishing, rest, and activities that light you up.

• Communicate Vulnerably:
  Move from self-ownership and vulnerability, rather than blame. Share feelings, not accusations.

• Appreciation Challenge:
  Regularly affirm and appreciate the small ways your partner shows up. Ask them what feels most meaningful to them.

• Relinquish Control Gradually:
  Consciously release habitual control in the relationship—let your partner step up without micromanagement.

• Assess What You Really Want:
  Examine whether you are seeking respect or cherishing in your relationship, and align your energy (and actions) accordingly.

• Personal Inventory:
  Ask: “Who do I want to be, irrespective of this relationship?” and do the work to live from that place of sovereignty.

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Essential Segments & Timestamps

• Introduction & Theme Overview – [00:00–03:53]
• Paradigm Shift in Gender & Relationship Roles – [04:01–07:55]
• The Role of Self-Intimacy – [08:45–11:36]
• Emotional Labor & Resignation vs. Ownership – [13:37–18:26]
• The 90-Day Self-Focus Experiment – [18:26–21:48]
• Personal Identity Outside of Roles – [23:47–27:06]
• Relationship as Mirror & Inner Child Work – [27:06–31:39]
• Respect, Cherishing, and Practical Tools – [33:16–40:16]
• Releasing Control & Creating Capacity – [40:20–42:54]

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Tone & Language

The conversation is candid, empathetic, and unfiltered, combining personal stories with practical wisdom delivered in the hosts’ supportive and relatable tone. The language is both compassionate and direct, inviting listeners into deep self-reflection without shaming or oversimplifying complex relational dynamics.

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For those feeling unseen, over-burdened, or resentful in their relationships, this episode offers a liberating roadmap—start with self-intimacy, own your desires, and watch your partnerships transform from the inside out.

Transcript

[Lexi]

Let's be honest. You built a business, held a vision, shown up for everyone, and yet you still feel unseen, unheld, understood only for what you give. Maybe it's in your relationship while you're doing all the emotional labor, holding the logistics and secretly wondering when is someone going to hold me the way I am holding everything else. Or maybe it's so much deeper than that. Maybe you have spent so long minimizing your needs, performing that chill playing, cool girl energy to keep the peace that you don't even know what true connection would even feel like anymore. This is the episode where we are really going to go there. Because the truth is you cannot keep asking to be met while refusing to meet yourself. That quiet resentment you're carrying, that's unspoken desire, that is unmet truth. And so we are calling this one you're not being met, but are you meeting yourself? Because what we are really exploring today is intimacy. And I'm talking real intimacy. The kind that starts with you, with your boundaries, with your voice, your ability to be, be honest about what you truly want. So if you've ever felt like the caretaker, the peacekeeper or the over functioner in your relationships, this conversation is really going to shift something big for you. Let's get into it. This is one conversation that I think I'm most excited to have. Probably because it's the most edgy for me. Because if I'm being really honest, two of the most challenging areas in my life have been the areas where I build up resentments. And in my relationships, not just my marriage, like my relationships. And resentment actually ruined one of the most important relationships in my life. And I think it's just important to name that because I don't think resentment will ruin the relationship. I think that's the unwillingness to look at it and have the conversation that will, that's one piece of it. And the other piece is really, I've really struggled in the past with being vulnerable and allowing myself to go there because it felt so unsafe. And my work over the last few years has been primarily on those two things.

[Emily]

Yeah.

[Lexi]

And I think it's come from many places. But I think a lot of high performing women can really relate. And for me I just was that person in my relationships that would over give, would overextend, would say yes when I meant no, would peace make. Because that's what I did when I was younger. One thing I've heard the concept talked about is like being a really high functioning codependent where actually it doesn't look like codependence at all, because you are so, so hyper independent.

[Emily]

Yeah.

[Lexi]

But it's done from a place of trying to appease people, trying to be everything, because when you are everything to everyone, you're safe.

[Emily]

That's the story that. Yeah. They'll ever abandon you.

[Lexi]

Exactly. And it's just been really big work for me the last few years. And I will say, of all the work that I have done, this work has improved my marriage the most.

[Emily]

Yeah.

[Lexi]

Because, I mean, even I would say five years ago, six years ago, when we were talking about doing our last podcast series, one of the big struggles in my relationship was, am I too, my masculine? If I'm the breadwinner, am I in my masculine? You know, is my husband leading enough? And I felt like he wasn't.

[Emily]

Yeah.

[Lexi]

And I started building resentment towards him for that. And the work to move through that was not to get him to show up differently.

[Emily]

That.

[Norma]

Yep.

[Lexi]

And that was really, really hard for me to hear back then. And people said that to me, and I resented them for saying it, of course. And I was like, you know, you don't see my dynamic. He's not picking up his socks. He's not doing xyz.

[Emily]

Yeah.

[Lexi]

So I want to get into it. And Alexi, I know we had a previous conversation about this, and the way you explained it was really, really fascinating. I want this episode to be for the woman who is really struggling in relationships, whether she is in relationship or not, is really, really struggling because she is ambitious and she is high performing and she's empty.

[Emily]

Yeah.

[Lexi]

She's not getting what she wants from the relationship. So she's either not staying in them or she's staying in one that she really wishes was different.

[Norma]

Not feeling met.

[Emily]

Oh, it's so big. And first of all, I just want to. Norma lives. We are actually in an epidemic of relational dysfunction now because our roles have shifted so dramatically in the last 50 years. Women have. I mean, we have taken up so much space in a world that previously there was no room for us. And I really just want to normalize for any women out there who are ambitious, who are making money, who have a dream and a vision on their heart, this is the most challenging place. This is the most challenging place for me too. I know for Em as well. Learning how to actually move from vulnerability and move from our softness feels really scary because we have literally built our entire sense of safety in our world based on the more masculine traits, which are not the soft, vulnerable traits. And we still want love. We still want to feel met. We still want to feel like our man can lead and our partner can lead in that way. And so there's this concept in the work of man, woman relating that says the man, the traditional whoever takes the role of man in relationship wants respect in the relationship. Females want to feel cherished. Now, in order to feel cherished, that means we're cherished for our heart, for our goodness, for our pleasure, for our liveness, for the light and life we bring to a room that's cherished. Respect is for what we've built, who we are in the world, what we bring to the table. And that's more of the masculine traits. Now, as women have entered the workforce and we have excelled, you know, sometimes beyond how men are doing, right, we are crushing it. We are so capable. Doesn't mean that we have to take that off the shelf. It just means that we've actually put all the qualities that we want to be cherished for up on the shelf, and we've gone, okay, so do you see how much I've built? Do you see how much I do? Do you see how much I provide? Do you see how much I take care of the house? You see how I take care of the kids? I want to feel respected for what I bring to the table. And therefore, it shifts the dynamic in a relationship where if we're wanting respect and maybe a little bit of cherishing too, the man goes, oh, well, I'm not feeling appreciated. I'm not feeling seen. I'm not feeling met. I'm not feeling adored. I'm not feeling celebrated. I'm not feeling acknowledged, cherished. So now we have reverse polarity. And that is the thing that we see. Almost 99% of our women who come to us are experience reverse polarity in their relationship. And they're like, how do I get out of this? This is not sexy. I want my man to lead. I want to feel cherished. I want to feel claimed. I don't want to be doing as much as I'm doing. Still want to work, still want to be successful, but I don't want to feel like I have to carry it all. And I think the modern woman is like, I am so tired of feeling like I'm carrying everything. Why do I even need a relationship? And that's the epidemic we're in where women are actually like, we don't need a man anymore because we make the money, we do all the things, and a man becomes a headache. That's just complaining about not being cherished. But deep down deep down, our woman, our woman wants to be adored. That woman inside of us is like, oh, I want to be appreciated. I want to be seen. I want to be acknowledged. But there's no room for her because we're not even making room for her. We're not celebrating and putting value in the traits that get acknowledged and cherished. We're focused on making it happen. We're focused on doing the thing, and we're doing it well. But we're tired. And I think this is where we find ourselves really going, oh, I'm so resentful. This was me and my marriage. I am so resentful. I'm doing all the things, and then here you are going, you're not doing enough for me. And I'm like, you have got to be kidding me. That was like, literally the demise of we almost got divorced. And what I recognized in that moment was, well, what I was saying was true. And I could find evidence for, oh, he's leaving socks on the ground and you're not helping with the dishes, and da, da, da. And what he was saying, I wasn't doing enough of not acknowledging him enough, not appreciating him enough, which he could find evidence. The real thing that. That moved the needle for me was like, wherever there is resentment, there is self betrayal. And I started looking at my relationship almost like a movie. Like, I zoomed out and I started looking at my relationship and all these little moments where I over functioned when I was too tired, when I did the thing and I didn't want to, when I didn't say the thing that I was actually feeling because I didn't want to start a fight and just wanted to keep it simple and go to sleep. All these little micro self betrayals. I'm like, no wonder why I'm so resentful. Cause I haven't been honoring myself. And I'm resentful because I'm doing all this stuff. And I'm mad because he's not respecting what I'm doing. But the ache in my heart just wants to be cherished. But I need to learn how to cherish myself first. And I did not have a practice of that. Did not have a practice of that.

[Norma]

It really is, I think, like Lexi really realizing we're in such a. Such a different time. And I think also what I want to bring to this conversation as well is understanding. Like, men are also really confused, and I know we're talking to women, but also the context at which a lot of us are coming towards our relational Dynamics is. Is very. Again, like the work that we do. It's taking away this contingency. If they would just. Then I could.

[Emily]

Which is what I said. Well, if press would just. Yeah, if you would just be better.

[Lexi]

Yeah, I've been there.

[Norma]

Yeah. And so it's like really cultivating, like, just to piggyback on what Lex was saying, to understand that us as a woman, we are in a reclamation of where we place our value as women inherently. And for a lot of us, especially if you're listening to this podcast, you prob, as we've been continuing to say, generate a lot of your value from your output, from your success, from being. You know, we had this massive shift in a society where what it meant to be a successful woman went from being just married, marry a bull to now. It was now your career or now you're. You have to be an entrepreneur. Like, it became this next box that had to be ticked. So that really was what drive drove a lot of our value. I remember going on dates when I was in the midst of this and I would be talking about my business and my launch, and I genuinely thought that's what made me a valuable woman. I was leading with, this is going to turn them. Yeah.

[Lexi]

So he knows how much I made literally.

[Norma]

And I. But I really felt that. And there was. Because there was no valuing of. And this is a massive reconditioning that we take the woman on in our work to actually realize. And if we're thinking about man, woman relating, firstly, you have to obviously create it for yourself to really redefine and reclaim what makes you valuable, your light, your radiance, the joy, like these innate feminine pieces. It's not dropping the masculine qualities, it's not dropping achievement, as we've already explored, explored so much on this podcast. But it is really becoming again, in relationship with what makes you valuable as a woman. And there's no bigger place that this becomes important than in a relationship with a man. Because what is inherently valuable to a man is your lightness, is your radiance, is your vulnerability, is your softness, is your capacity and availability to really receive him. If we're actually thinking about what, you know, again, what he needs to create that. Like, we see women in our program and we've seen it for ourselves, when we just focus on our capacity to step more into that, the relationship shifts. It shifts because the energy that's coming is now so different. It creates the polarity. So it puts him back into where you want him to be. And so it's really like firstly again for ourselves, how do we be in the practice of. And you know, intimacy practice is intimacy with self. Again, like all. Like you're saying, all the conversations that didn't happen, all the times it was easier to not speak up because in those moments, that requires intimacy. It requires communication skill. It remind. It requires you sharing your feelings. It requires you legitimizing that you feel dissatisfied or upset and the capacity to actually share that. So it's. It's a practice that most of us don't have. It's a skill set a lot of us don't have. And so it is easier to just kind of push it aside and then generate the resentment and yeah, that. That capacity to be soft. That's why the practice first starts with self. Because it's like, do I have the practice of being to actually listen to myself? Do I have the practice to making space for my own hurt? Do I have the practice of actually tending to myself first instead of actually thinking that my safety and my needs need to be met by this person?

[Emily]

Which. Which is crazy. Think about, right?

[Norma]

It's crazy.

[Emily]

An emotional experience. How many women, ourselves included, would be like, my man can't hold space for my emotions. Right. Meanwhile, we can't even hold space for our own emotions. We can't even sit in the discomfort of feeling any type of emotion. And we expect our partner to meet.

[Norma]

Us there totally, 100%. It's wild when we actually start to peel it back and it's liberating. I want this to be liberating because it means that we have already the capacity to shift our relational dynamics when we step into this practice with ourselves and. And even the. The narratives of too needy, too much. All of these reasons why we also push down our needs and push down our desires. That then obviously generates the resentment and the frustration being in the practice of actually allowing your fullness as a woman because you sharing like this is the irony to his cosmic joke. A man actually yearns to protect and provide for you when you share from a soft, vulnerable place. When you actually share your feelings, not your resentments. Right. When you're actually in the moment of hurt, having the intimacy with self and that the holding of sel share from that place. He's very receptive to that. The masculine is very receptive for that. What he's not receptive to is blame men. This is, I think, a thing that really a lot of women need to get more. Men are so much more sensitive than we give them credit for. Really truly like their Story of not enoughness. Their story of inadequacy. This story of shame is so big. And so when we. Yeah, that's why, when we actually want to generate a different result, the. One of the big pieces of self responsibility we get to do as women is actually coming from that soft open heart. And again, that's why that. That's the muscle we get to build first with ourselves. And then can we take that? Because it's scary. It's so scary to say, hey, here's my heart and my feelings. Because firstly, we don't have to practice with self. But then sharing that. But it's just a really big piece to get because I think there's a lot of narrative around. Men are shit and they're not leading and they're doing this. And we have to be really sober about this conversation too, of how we're playing into that and how we are. Then we're co generating that. That experience with these men.

[Lexi]

So here's what we're rubbing up against.

[Emily]

Yeah.

[Lexi]

Really want us to talk about. There's going to be some women listening. And I know this because I was her.

[Norma]

Sure, I've agitated people even with that, I reckon.

[Lexi]

No, but I was her. And my. I remember having this conversation, I think it was five years ago, bringing up all of these things and I got told some of this stuff and I said, no, I am not doing more than I'm already doing. I'm already doing so much. Why should I take on the emotional labor of this?

[Emily]

Yes, yes.

[Lexi]

And I couldn't get out of my own way for a really, really long time. Being totally honest, that was the thing that tripped me up.

[Emily]

Same. I was there too.

[Lexi]

Can we talk about that?

[Emily]

Yeah. So I was there too. And I mean, I had so many conversations with her being one of my besties, where I was like, I'm so done with the emotional labor. I'm not holding this, I'm not doing this anymore. And what I get, what I got from that was, and we talked about this in an earlier episode is the problem was going to be there regardless of what I chose to do about it, right? So I could either do the emotional labor and move in how I used to move in of like, okay, we've got to fix this, we got to do this. Let's do these skills and this. Da, da da da. That's how I was approaching everything. There's a solution to this. Right. Very masculine approach. What I was avoiding, what I was pretending not to know, was that what was missing from our Relationship was my heart, was my vulnerability, was the felt experience of the heartbreak I was feeling from feeling dropped. Right. But I was scared to bring that in. So I just focused on strategies. I focused on like, let's do more work, let's figure this out. Let's get another communication. We stacked up tools. So many tools, so many sessions, therapy, so many things. But the thing that moved the needle was when I dropped all of that, all the labor, all the doing. I just went into my heart and felt first for myself, what's actually here. What's actually here. Oh, my heart is breaking. First for myself. Look at all the ways I abandoned myself. Look at all the ways I over function. Look at all the ways I bent over backwards and contorted and overdid to try and get love and appreciation and safety. Oh my gosh, heartbreak. And then my gosh, heartbreak for my marriage. What did we create? How did we get here? This was not. I had to like grieve the expectation I had of the marriage I thought I would have. And then, and then, and then, and then I could meet him because I was first meeting myself and I, I stopped avoiding what was there by trying to do more work.

[Norma]

Yeah.

[Emily]

And so that was the big shift for me was like, like the labor was technically my avoidance strategy.

[Norma]

And that's the piece too where it's like you're not, it's not doing more, it's just doing different. So it's, it's not actually taking more on, but it's just, it's being willing to try something different because, and be really honest about the strategy or the way that we're currently doing it. Because for most of us, if you're anything like, you know, the many, many, many, many women that we've worked with and ourselves, we need work in this area, especially as a high achieving woman. Right. Because we've been, we are so much more conditioned into achieve output. We don't, we haven't placed as much practice on the, the opening of our heart, the softness, the just as women really valuing the superpower of our tenderness. Right. Because there's so much conditioning around being strong and all of these pieces. And so it's not more, it's just different and, and it's, it can feel, you know, we have this, it's like about talking about, you know, complaints are lazy desires. Right. So these resentments, these complaints that we have, there's a desire under there. And most of the time the, the strategy that we're using in relationship is I wish you would Just. Or like complaining without taking full responsibility for really owning the desire. Because the desire can be sensitive. It can make us feel vulnerable. It can make us feel like we're asking for too much. So that's the mature, relating approach that we can. Then again, it's liberating. It's not about feeling. And of course I understand the frustration, but it's not about the frustration of feeling like, now I've got to do more. It's actually liberating, meaning, like, wow, I can change the. A lot of my relational dynamic by taking ownership of this piece. And again, firstly for me, because this is me being in ownership of my own desires, of my own heart, of being willing to communicate vulnerably. Like, that's deep self growth. There's nowhere that that's not going to serve you. And so it's, it's. It's less about like, oh, the tit for tat of now I've got to do more for him. Like, this is deep reverence for self, for how you want to open your heart, how you want to be. And again, what kind of woman do I want to be? Do I want to have an open heart? Do I want to be able to share my desires? And, you know, we have the. You can also be in the practice because there may be relational dynamics that even when you do that, don't shift or even when you do that, don't feel good. And again, this just gives you really beautiful information. It means I brought my full heart, I brought my full self, I stepped fully into my woman. And then what happened here, again, for a lot of our woman, we see that the man still shifts, the relationship shifts because it can pivot him into. It activates his masculine activates. That steps him into who you want him to be. It's not the, you know, the feeling like he's being inadequate.

[Emily]

And that's what the big shift was for me is again, really highlighting. Because the woman who's out there saying that, I hear you, I see you, I get you, I was you. Of like, I refuse to keep holding this thing together. I'm the glue, and I'm sick of being the glue. I'm tired. And that question, I literally, like, I remember having a moment when I was thinking about leaving Preston and thinking like, oh, like when I started dating again, like, I'm gonna feel so different as a woman. I'm gonna feel so free.

[Norma]

Comes along and so my needs, oh.

[Emily]

There'S going to be this man out there that's just doesn't throw his socks on the floor and, like, keeps a clean kitchen. And just like, you know, we dream about the grass is greener on whatever other side we're looking at. And I had a very sobering moment as I was dreaming, and I kind of chuckled to myself, why aren't you being that woman now? Oh, you're. You're waiting for this dreamy, perfect man to show up to be the type of woman you want to be. Like, be her now. And that question of, like, what type of woman do I want to be irrespective of if I choose to stay? Because maybe I choose to. To leave at that point, I wasn't sure, but I was like, I want to do this for me. And so I took the idea of I'm doing this for our relationship. I took that off the table, and I actually had a conversation with Preston, and I said, hey, let's do 90 days where we stop working on the relationship, where we stop going, who do I need to be for this relationship? What do I need to hold? And we just say, you do you, I'll do me. We're still committed, we're still together, but we're not functioning for relationship. We're functioning for ourselves. And that subtle shift. Shift. 90 days changed my life. Because in those 90 days is when I really started to get clear on the answer to the question, what type of woman do I want to be? And it felt so good. It's like I got to feel myself again. And I'm like, oh, there she is. And some parts I knew and I recognized from before, some parts were brand new. And who's this woman? I love this person. And from that place, I got to re enter the relationship with the eyes of my fullness, the eyes of my full woman, and go, do I choose this, this? And from that place, I could go, yes. And he could say, yes. And we both chose each other again from a new place of fullness and sovereignty based on, like, scarcity and victimhood, of you've got to contort yourself to be different. For me to feel safe, to open. Preston and I were both playing a version of that game. And that game will build resentment. It will build self betrayal, because you're constantly going, who do I need to be to feel safe in this dynamic versus I feel safe because I'm choosing to be myself, and I'm going to bring that safety to you. And going back to some dynamics won't change. Some dynamics change. You could do all the work. You could actualize the woman that you're like oh, yes, I'm here. You enter and step back into your relationship and you're like, okay, it hasn't shifted. But the woman that is fully in her sovereign power knows how to choose what's right for her. And you make a choice not out of codependency, not out of, oh my gosh, I need to stay in this.

[Norma]

Relationship to the delusion that something, somebody else is going to change because you haven't done the work.

[Emily]

Right. But then you really get to choose from sovereignty and from fullness. And so as Em said, it's like this is a game that's a win, win game because you get to actually experience yourself as a woman and take it off of, I'm doing this for the relationship. Because that's the inherent problem. Women are trained like, what do I have to do for the relationship? And that's why we're tired of the emotional labor. Because our, our orientation is always like, what do I need to do for the relationship? Who do I need to be for the relationship versus who do I need to be for myself? What do I need to do for myself so that a full self can show up in a relationship and choose it or not?

[Lexi]

I want to go a little bit deeper in this because I think there's women listening who. And we, we see this a lot. And I have this with my clients too, who will be brushing up against things like, my husband doesn't lead. My man just isn't alpha enough. He is xyz. He's too soft. He's demanding too much for me. He's not seeing me. He's not contributing enough. All of these things. Things. And I want to go back to your divorce point.

[Emily]

Yeah.

[Lexi]

Because I just want to highlight the gravity of this.

[Emily]

Yeah. Oh yeah.

[Lexi]

You two went through this. You have four kids together, all very.

[Emily]

Young at the time. We just had a brand new baby.

[Lexi]

You did?

[Emily]

Yeah.

[Lexi]

A young baby. I just want to land this very young children, a lot of enmeshment in businesses, multiple real estate investments. Community.

[Emily]

Yes.

[Lexi]

You had both have both been together for a very, very long time and built very big, big full lives together.

[Emily]

Yes.

[Lexi]

And when you are saying this, it is not a flippant. It was a point where we were thinking of getting divorced. This was very real.

[Emily]

Oh, yeah.

[Lexi]

And very real.

[Emily]

Oh yeah.

[Lexi]

And so going back to that point when you say I decided for the next 90 days, I am doing this for me, can you knowing the gravity of that situation because you knew at the end of the 90 days, if this didn't Work, by all intents and purposes, your life could fall apart.

[Emily]

Oh, yeah.

[Lexi]

And it affects your kids and it affects effects. And that is very, very hard for women to grasp. And a lot of women will stay stuck in people pleasing. And I'll just keep going because I can't fathom leaving because of the kids or because of the businesses or because of xyz. So I just want to land the gravity of that because I know that some women listening need that.

[Emily]

Yeah.

[Lexi]

So going back to the beginning of those 90 days when you knew what was on the other side of it and you were willing to just go all in, what did it look like to really choose you? Because this was probably the first time in a really long time you just ch you, not the businesses, not the husband, not the kids, but you.

[Emily]

Yeah, it's, I love that you're bringing this up because at first I didn't know. I'm like, what does it look like to pour into me like, how do I answer the question, who do I want to be as a woman? Because my whole life has been oriented on who do I need to be as a wife, who do I need to be as a business person, who do I need to be as a mentor, as a leader, as a fill in the blank. Right. So I, I, I didn't know at first. And I think that's the real sobering reality that I want to do. Just preface here is that it took some time to get into a new orientation around like, oh, I matter. Oh, my needs matter. Oh, my desires are legitimate. Oh, play and rest are okay. And I don't have to feel guilty for it. I had to face off with all of the patterns that I had around who I was as a woman that haven't been serving me for a really long time, but were so well ingrained and keeping me very quote, unquote, successful from the outside that I had to actually reckon with. Oh, what if I don't choose that anymore, anymore? And this is where my life started to shift dramatically. I started to like, look differently at my businesses. Like, why do I have all these people that I employ when, like, I feel like I'm still doing everything? And started like, I literally like trimmed my business all the way down. I stopped doing aspects of my business where I'm like, I'm hiring that out. I'm not doing that anymore. Started going to, to dance classes and embodiment classes. Started doing so much shadow work and looking at all the places I was judging or shaming myself for other people and going like, oh, what does that mean about what I'm repressing? And just spending so much time in my body doing nervous system work literally every single day. I was doing 10 minutes of nervous system work and just like building a relationship with my body and recognizing, like finding these pockets of joy, but also finding these depths of grief. I was in so much grief. When I say I was grieving the expectation of what I thought my marriage would be, I was grieving hardcore. Like, I would be like in a puddle for a couple days and just feel all of it and give myself permission to. Which I never did. I was the woman who used to look at people who would get emotional and be like, oh, gosh, please get your shit together. Like, that was who I was, right? Like, everyone who knew me was like, oh yeah, Lex is not the emotional type. Now I cry at like the drop of a hat because I'm just so in touch with my sensorial body. Like, I can feel life, the good, the bad, the ugly, everything in between. And so it was this like journey of getting to know myself again as this, you know, 39 year old woman that's like, okay, I've got four kids and like all these businesses, but who am I without that? Who am I if everything changes? Who am I if I'm no longer married to this man and like having this life together as this couple in the community, like, who am I and who do I want to be? And I just started playing with my. My life, the idea of who I was, what I wanted. I like followed the little curiosities. And this is really where N and I, like, we just so happen as besties would to be going through this rebirth, death and rebirth cycle at the same time. This is where we built our work called the Muse, because we literally started a text thread called Muses and it was like, what would life look like if we lived as our muses use? If we lived as the creative force that inspired everything, like all of creative acts in the world. What if we lived as her? What would be different? And that's literally the question we asked. And we would just put it in the text. Oh, today we did this and da, da, da. And then she'd fly in because she was kind of in and out at the time. And it just transformed how we did life.

[Norma]

That question, yeah, fundamentally shifted the way that we woman in every way, everyway. I want to also just drop this in here. And this is a big thing to drop in, so we can maybe pick it up and maybe not, but it's also understanding that in all relationships, emotional dynamics, you likely attracted the person who's going to trigger you more than anybody ever will.

[Lexi]

Say it louder.

[Norma]

They're really also understanding the dynamic of that like our wounding, the places we have resentments, the places we have hurts. Like we uniquely get more wounded and hurt in different places. What hurts me is different to what hurts Alexi, because our background and our wounding is different. But what's going to likely show up in our relationship dynamic wherever we get the most wounding. And so that's again why I, it's, I share this because it's liberating and empowering. Because whilst your relationship absolutely should be a place of support and healing, and it absolutely should be, it also isn't the responsibility of the person to meet all of your needs so that you feel what you need to feel. Because the, the, the purpose really of a healing relationship is to help mend those parts of us. But the, the, the places we get the most activation are places from our child. It's just, I mean, it's, that's not even. That's science, right? That's a fact. So it's also knowing that when you're getting that the places you're getting the most activated because again, you know, the, the it being about the sock on the floor, the dishwasher not open, right. It's never about that. Right. It's about a bigger feeling of not feeling held or not feeling supported or not feeling seen or not feeling validated. Right. And so firstly, really understanding that's what's actually going on because that gives you the access point to know. Like it's not about the sock, man. It's like there's a bigger piece. And so first and foremost, the more that we're aware of that and aware of where we're the most sensitive and hurt, firstly, we can really tend to that ourselves. That's again, why I say like that self intimacy piece. We say that like tending to that because that is the thing that's driving the reaction. And so the more that we tend to that, the more that we love on that one, the more we become a woman who opens her heart to that wounding of her son. Again, the, the less reactive it is because we're attending to it so much ourself. And so the, the agitation is less active and that allows us also to take. Because when we get in that reactivity and we get in the resentment and we throw the, the dagger back or we hit the, you know, we throw something, we don't. We say Something we don't feel good about. Right. Like, that's the opportunity first to go, okay, I'm hitting something, and I need to tend to that first. Because that's what allows us to then take our more open heart to our partner, which then. And then creates the reaction that is more conducive to. We want. Yeah, because we don't take. Yeah, because we don't want to take the reactivity. Because that's what continues to drive the cycle that allows us, when we tend to ourselves first, we can actually then take. Hey, babe. What I'm really noticing is I feel really. I feel hurt. I feel sad about that. And also, we're in ownership of it, and it's not making it their responsibility. And they can work with that. Men are good at working with that. But that's. It's knowing that that's what's. It's touching on versus just all these micro ways, because that gives us a bit of filter for actually seeing, oh, this is also my shift. Right.

[Emily]

Yeah. And that's the piece I wanted to touch on, is in that 90 days, I was just doing work on coming back home to myself, which meant like, a ton of inner child work and, like, tending to the vulnerable heart. That was like I had been ignoring for years, for decades, because it was like more, more. Produced, produce, produce. I was intending to my tenderness. And when I started doing that, when I came back after the 90 days, it was like I could actually see the man that was in front of me. Versus is like the problem. Right. And I think I was relating to Preston prior to that as the problem and where he was deficient and where he wasn't showing up and not.

[Norma]

They can feel that.

[Emily]

He can feel that. He felt all of it. And of course, it triggers their shame and, like, they're not enoughness and all the things. But when I could actually meet him in my tenderness, I could feel his tenderness. And then we actually. And we talk about this, like, that's when we actually started our real relationship, you know, after 13 years together. It started it at that point because we were actually meeting the tender parts and not like the protective parts, not the parts that were shielding and guarding and doing in order to be safe. We met the real parts. And that realness was like the relief that I was searching for the whole time in trying to get him to pick his socks up off the floor. I needed the relief of feeling like, where are you? Where are you? Where are you? Which is really my soul going, where are you? Where are you? Where Are you? To me? But when I showed up for myself, I could see him. And that's when, when it fundamentally shifted our polarity, it shifted everything. Like our sex changed. Everything changed because we were finally meeting each other from the true self and not the guard.

[Norma]

And I think that, that just like, let's just underline that for a second that after 13 years of marriage, they finally met each other in intimacy. Like open hearted intimacy. Like really, that just really speaks to how, how hard this can be, how challenging this can be. We're in the work as couples and like the challenge of actually being like firstly opening our heart to ourselves and then allowing someone else to meet us there. And I underline this point because this is what we see time and time and time again. And it speaks to the question of why won't he lead me? All of the concerns and the, the, the, the challenges that get brought in. And again, we're talking to the woman here. So, you know, the men have their own conversation to have. So it's not like, woman, this is all our responsibility. But right now we're talking to the ladies. Like there's a whole list of things we could talk to the men about that it's like really understanding the dynamics of this. But we see it time and time again of, I want this from my man, but I, I'm not actually the space for it. And so this is really this conversation of cultivating being the space for what we want. And again, it comes back to nervous system stuff because always are we the space for the intimacy we want, can we actually receive it? That's why again, after 13 years of being in the work and being in relationship, actually both of them are creating newer capacity to receive, receive deeper levels of intimacy. So it's just really speaks to again the liberation that's available when we take responsibility for it. And that the hurt and the pain that's in the way of the thing that we want because it's convenient to say, if you would just pick up your socks or if you would just do the piece, then I would feel better. But it's not that. And again, it's the hungry ghost. It's never enough because it's actually something that has. We have to cultivate more in here.

[Lexi]

And a question. So we talked about the beginning of the episode. Men really want respect. Respect. Women really want to be cherished. Yeah. And something you said, Emily, was about how a really hard thing for a man to handle in the place they go to when things aren't going well in relationship.

[Norma]

A shame.

[Lexi]

What is it for the woman? What is the equivalent of that for the woman? So we know what they want.

[Norma]

Yeah.

[Lexi]

What shows up the most for women in the way that shame would show up for. For men? What shows up for women?

[Norma]

I would say unworthiness for feeling unworthy. It's like, unworthy of like, I am not enough. I'm not enough.

[Emily]

The men is like, I can't do enough.

[Norma]

The complaint we hear, getting it wrong.

[Emily]

I'm getting it wrong. It'll never be good enough. I'll never get it right. That's what we hear from the men, from the women is like, I'll never be enough. I'll never be pretty enough. I'll never be thin enough, I'll never be good enough. And it's the inherent enoughness that we're both playing with. But for men, it's more of like doing women, it's more of being so.

[Lexi]

What do we think? So for a woman, what is one thing for someone in relationship, a woman can say to their partner, their man, that's going to make them feel less shame, shame, more respect?

[Norma]

Yeah.

[Lexi]

And then what is something they can ask for that their man could be reflecting back to them that is going to make them feel more cherished and more worthy. So we're gonna send them off on their own journeys. But is there a. Is this an action they could be doing and then asking for in return?

[Norma]

I mean, in terms of making your man feel more respected, like, it's the littlest things. This is actually the beautiful thing about men. Like have so many beautiful men friends and spending a lot of time with a couple here recently, just really beautiful, conscious men and they just reflect. Even like when they open my door, like I get giddy, they. They carry my bottle for me. Oh my gosh. Thank you so much. Like, it's these little moments of receptivity as a woman that light men up and makes them feel worthy, makes them feel respected, makes them feel appreciated, makes them feel like you're noticing what they're doing. Like these little things, like they're actually like, it's honestly so not to just be like emasculating, but they're such sweet boys voice inside, truly like. And what actually makes them feel valued and worthy is so it doesn't take much and they don't actually want that much and then they want to give us the world really. So these little things, like how can you appreciate the little micro things truly just that will light your man up massively.

[Emily]

I want to jump on that Because I know a lot of women, especially in our world, the married, kids, you know, business, they're like, well, my man doesn't do enough that I respect. He's not leading in these ways. And just to do a quick reframe, like, there are different ways that men can provide. And when we start to really expand our view and go, how are they providing for me in the subtle ways of like, you know, opening the door or locking the doors at night or checking in on you or texting you back or rubbing your feet. Like, it's not always just financial. And I think we have to really expand our view of what it means to lead. So that's a big piece and you can really pull those together. And a man wants to know that he is being seen in his leadership. And so one of our teachers, Omrapani, talks about this idea of red light, green light, light, and our reactions. Men are always looking for, is that a red light or a green light?

[Norma]

Am I winning? Am I winning? Am I winning? Am I winning? Am I winning? That's their main question, right?

[Emily]

And if they feel any sense of, oh, that might have been yellow or it's red, then it's shame. Yeah, they go into shame. Now. It's not our job to protect them from their own shame and their own fragility. That's their worth. But if we want to be in partnership and like set our generous, like.

[Norma]

Do you want to be a generous woman as well?

[Emily]

Let's be generous. And so I really think about that because I know sometimes, like, I'm a Virgo, I have very high standards. And a lot of times he does not meet the standard I have of whatever, right? And so I think, like, am I, is this a yellow? Is this a red? Like, what signal am I giving him? So even just as Em said, like something so small for my husband, that's a green light is like, oh, thanks, babe. And just rubbing his arm, he's like, green light, green light.

[Norma]

Sure touch green light.

[Emily]

And it's the smallest thing. And for me, I'm like, really? But for him, it's so big. And the big, like brownie points. If you go to your partner and you say, hey, what is a small thing I could do for you? That would be like a level 10 of feeling cherished, loved, adored, respected, all the things, things from me and let them tell you and then do it once a week, do it once a day. Like, we did a challenge, which is like a 30 day appreciation challenge for men in our life. I focused it on Preston she did it for all these different men in our lives. And it was amazing.

[Norma]

And it feels so good to be generous like that.

[Emily]

So that's a big thing that we could do for our men. Green lights all day and they could.

[Lexi]

Be tiny cuz also just.

[Norma]

Just knowing as well. Like my brother says this to me a lot. Like men don't get touched, they don't get affirmed. They don't actually receive this. Like us as women. Like, we're always cuddling and loving. Like we had that beautiful ceremony for me the other day. Got poured into by my friends. Like it's such a common experience.

[Lexi]

Yeah. We don't lack in that.

[Norma]

No. We're so full in that. And if a man is in partnership, that's probably. You're probably the only place.

[Emily]

Yeah.

[Norma]

That he's actually kind of safely able to receive that. And so even kind of knowing that, like, wow, like they're really starved of that. Firstly, it's their fuel and they're usually not getting enough of it. And again, we're not pandering to them, but like right now we're having the conversation to the woman. So we're to just going kind of putting stuff on the table.

[Emily]

And if we want to be generous in our partnerships and if we want our partners to be generous with us.

[Norma]

Yeah, it's going to generate, it's going to.

[Emily]

It's going to come back to you 100% tenfold. And that's the other piece. So for the ladies, really get clear on, do you want respect or do you want cherishing? Because when I heard this concept I really like, I thought about the woman I was. When I met my husband, I wanted respect. I wanted respect. I wanted him to see me for my inspiration, intellect, for what I built, for how I built it, for how hard I worked. I wanted respect. And I can't pretend that that woman wanted to be cherished, you know, but that woman was mad that I was more in the masculine in my relationship. But that's the role I actually wanted to be in unconsciously. So I would say, number one, just get really.

[Norma]

And also probably just more comfortable in. More comfortable in that role.

[Emily]

Totally. And just get honest. Like, what do you actually want from your relationship? If you want respect, respect. Okay. But like consciously choose that and know that you're likely going to have reverse polarization in your relationship. But if you're choosing it, choose it, be okay with it. But if you. If maybe you've been operating from oh, wow, I think I have wanted respect, but I'm Craving to be cherished. Number one thing, cherish yourself. Like, you have to start with actually lighting yourself up from within and going, oh, yes, my rest, my happiness, my pleasure, my joy, my excitement, my life. Aliveness matters. Beauty matters. Time with friends matters. And the more we play in those qualities, the more it becomes an. Of course that we get cherished from others. Yes, we can ask for it, but we also just want to feel it for ourselves. And that's a job that we can take care of. I know. Like, whenever. When we had that ceremony the other night, was Preston annoyed that I didn't get home until 11 o'? Clock? Yes. But he was like, I'm so glad you did that. He's like, you feel so full from that. And I was. Because I took time to be with my friends, which the woman who wanted respect wouldn't have.

[Lexi]

Yeah.

[Emily]

You know, and I think that's the difference. We've got to learn how to, like, cherish ourselves and take care of ourselves in that way. Of course. Ask for whatever you need and want from your partner and make sure you're giving it to yourself first.

[Lexi]

And was that an edge for you to allow him to be unhappy with you staying outside?

[Emily]

Oh, yeah. Yeah, for sure. Because for me, again, the good wife make are you good? Like, I remember I used to go out of town for things and like, make sure everything was set up and all the groceries were done and da, da, da, like, you're good, Everything's handled. Here's the post it notes. And now I'm just like, okay, bye. Figure it out. And the old me would have never done that because the lack of control I would feel would make me feel so unsafe, would make my kids feel unsafe. Even though he's a grown ass man, I can totally handle it in my mind, I thought he couldn't.

[Lexi]

Yeah, I really relate to that. I would plan all the meals, I would do all the things. And then when I stopped doing it, I still was trying to control it from afar. I'm like, no, I've released control. But what are you feeding her tonight? Has she got X, Y, Z?

[Norma]

Yes.

[Lexi]

And then I had to stop doing that. And what's been amazing is being so pleasantly surprised.

[Norma]

Yes. Love that.

[Lexi]

And that's been so nice. But it took me releasing all of my control in stages.

[Emily]

Yeah.

[Lexi]

Like, okay, I was prepping everything. Okay. I'm not going to prep everything, but I'm still checking in.

[Norma]

Yes.

[Lexi]

Okay. I'm going to fully release control and not even wonder and be surprised by it.

[Norma]

Yeah, you Titrated yourself. You titrated yourself.

[Lexi]

Slowly, slowly. Do it.

[Norma]

And you lift. Yeah, you lift. Space for what you wanted. That's the thing, right? It's like there's, it's a lot of the time in these dynamics. There's no space for what women are wanting from their men. Because we're stepping into it.

[Emily]

That's it. Because we don't trust. There's this.

[Norma]

No, we don't trust there's this thing. That's what they feel.

[Emily]

Totally. And there's this thing that Ohm says that teacher, I was referring to where he says, so many women say, how do I let my man leave?

[Norma]

Yeah, even then that, yeah, even that.

[Emily]

Question of, I'm giving you permission, I'm giving you permission. And he gives this example of driving a car. Like if you're a teenager and you're the mom and you're like, okay, I'm gonna let my son drive the car. We're sitting in the car like this white knuckling, like, break, break, break, break. And we're still technically driving the car with our energy and not letting him actually drive the car. Our son driving the car would be, okay, bye, here's the keys, go. But most of us are going, why isn't my husband leading, driving the car? Cause we're sitting there white racing.

[Norma]

Not like that. Are you gonna miss a turn?

[Emily]

Yeah, totally.

[Norma]

Yeah. So that's the sobering, you know, and again, sobering, but liberating.

[Emily]

Like we are in our own way what we want.

[Norma]

Yeah.

[Emily]

We don't currently have because we don't have the capacity for it yet. And that's a big thing we remind our women in Muse is like anything you want that you don't currently have, it's because you don't quite yet have the capacity for it. And that's okay. It can be built, it can be titrated, it can be widened. But you have to have the awareness first of, oh, I'm in the way, I'm in the way. And how do I get out of my own way?

[Lexi]

I think this was probably my favorite conversation so far. And I know the one tomorrow is just really, really, really bringing it home. If this conversation brought something up for you, if you felt a lump in your throat, a sting behind your eyes, or that quiet knowing in your gut you are not alone. You are so wildly not alone. And you don't have to keep holding this all by yourself. That is exactly why we created soft Success, a 60 minute masterclass for high achieving women who are really ready to stop over giving, over performing and over functioning their way through life and relationship relationships. We are going to be walking you through rebuilding your relationship with success, your body and your truth so that being met by others doesn't feel like a fantasy, but a natural result of how deeply you're now willing to meet yourself. If this episode really resonated, the masterclass is your best next step. You can save your seat right [e-mail] softsuccess. You have spent long enough contorting yourself to fit into spaces that were never built to see you fully. Come join us. We are building something vastly different and we would love to see you there. Wait wait wait. Before you go, I would love to send you my 7 figure CEO operating system completely free as a gift. All you've got to do is leave us a review on this podcast because it really supports the growth of this show. This is my digital masterclass where I'll show you you what my freedom based daily, weekly and monthly schedule looks like as an eight figure CEO mama and high performer and I'll walk you through step by step how to create this for yourself. It includes a full video training from me and a plug and play spreadsheet to literally create your own operating system. It's one of our best trainings and it's worth $1,997. But I will unlock access for you for free when you leave us a review. I know, wild right? All you have to do is leave your review on the podcast podcast, take a screenshot of it and then head over to bossbab.comreview to upload it and then you'll get instant access to the seven figure CEO operating system. Again, head over to BossBab.comreview to upload your screenshot and get access. We are so so grateful for all of your support and can't wait to hear how the podcast has supported you.