Best of full interview: Clipse Talk New Album, Def Jam Split, Travis Scott Beef, Cousinz Fest, Kdot, Ye, Leaks + More

Summary

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The Breakfast Club: Best of Full Interview – Clipse Talk New Album, Def Jam Split, Travis Scott Beef, Cousinz Fest, Kendrick, Ye, Leaks & More

Date: December 31, 2025
Hosts: DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, Charlamagne Tha God
Guests: Pusha T, Malice (Clipse)

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Episode Overview

This episode reunites hip hop duo Clipse (Pusha T and Malice) for a candid, wide-ranging conversation with The Breakfast Club hosts. The interview delves into the origins of Clipse, their new album, the impact of family and faith, creative changes, Def Jam label drama, industry relationships, lyrical intent, and more. Both nostalgia and evolution are on display as Clipse reflect on their journey and look forward to their future.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Origins & Early Days of Clipse

• Name & Formation
  • Malice: The group name was shortened from “Full Eclipse” due to Fat Joe’s existing crew (04:08).
• First Steps in Music
  • Inspired by local hip hop culture, breakdancing, and homemade raps.
  • Malice: “Just coming up under that. And we went to Chad's house one time and Pusha, he wrote his first rap and Pharrell was like, y' all should... be a group.” (05:01)
• Connecting with Pharrell & Chad
  • Linked up, in part, thanks to a malfunctioning drum machine and mutual friends (05:37).
• Virginia’s Influence
  • Both describe Virginia as a rich but under-recognized musical environment.
  • Pusha T: “Everybody who's made it in Virginia actually had to leave Virginia to make it... Clips broke in Philly.” (07:31)
  • Malice: “We have the same friends from, you know, way back, and just certain ethics and standards of loyalty, you know, that has been bred in Virginia.” (57:16)

2. About the New Album: Return, Themes, and Process

• Reuniting After Hiatus
  • Malice’s hiatus rooted in his spiritual journey.
    • Malice: “I understood and walked a similar path like Mase... to have a real live revelation of God and who he is, you know, and then have to navigate your way.” (09:36)
  • Family and faith helped bring the duo back together.
    • Malice: “I had asked my dad... what do you think about me rapping again? And he said, 'Son, I think you've been too hard on yourself.'” (11:37)
    • Pusha T: “She [mom] would always be like, I want you with him. I want your brother with you... that was always her thing.” (13:44)
• Creative Process & Intent
  • The album opens with a dedication to their parents—an emotionally charged piece recorded in a communal space:
    • Pusha T: “It was polarizing... while we're doing this in real time, everybody's in tears.” (14:10)
  • Theme of “urgency” guided song selection:
    • Pusha T: “The key thing that we were trying to find in the studio was urgency... it had to tug at your heart.” (56:05)
  • Pharrell produced every song, taking a direct and minimalist approach:
    • Pusha T: “Treating the vocal like a real instrument... there's so much that's this centered around the word... have to let that breathe.” (62:47)

3. Spiritual Evolution & Family Dynamics

• Malice’s Journey
  • Open about faith, finding peace in reconciliation and purpose.
    • Malice: “For anyone who has any questions about me, I'm Jesus inside out. Like, I'm all the way Gone with it like it's crazy. But I just took some artistic liberty, you know, with that line.” (31:22)
    • Discusses being called a pastor: “I’m not. I could be... God is everything to me first and foremost. And that's not cliche. Like, I need Jesus like I need water and food.” (67:45)
• Handling Comebacks & Authenticity
  • Malice: “You have to know, be solid in who you are... there is none righteous. No, not one. So nobody can truly point the finger. But you better have your heart positioned in Jesus Christ.” (38:13)
  • Family relationships provide stability and peace.
    • Malice: “You really should be [in harmony with your people]. Because that is what gives me a lot of peace knowing... everything was straight and always straight.” (16:56)

4. Industry Talk: Def Jam, Partnerships, Leaks & Label Moves

• Def Jam Split
  • Album delay and communication breakdown with Def Jam:
    • Pusha T: “They wouldn't text or email... only talk on the phone. I can only assume that it was just the optics with everything they got going on, with litigation, lawsuits, and all of that.” (28:45)
  • Leaving the label involved intervention from Jay-Z:
    • Pusha T: “He [Hov] had to pay... Steven reached out to him... I never seen lawyer work like this that fast.” (30:06)

5. Addressing Beef & the Art of Rap Battles

• Pusha T’s Approach

  • On rap beef preparation:
    • Pusha T: “You know, just me being a rap artist and me being an emcee, that's just second nature… I try not to engage too much. I've done it with the best and the biggest.” (24:43)
  • Insights into famous battles (including the Drake diss “Story of Adidon”).
    • Charlamagne: “I feel like you've been trying to catch a body since the Story of Adidon.” (25:44)
    • Pusha T: “I have a lot to rap about. I got a lot… it don’t ever have to be about an individual.” (26:08)
  • Tacit admission of connection with Kendrick Lamar during his recent battle (“Euphoria”):
    • Charlamagne: “You could get an accessory to murder charge, though. ’Cause when you listen to Euphoria...”
    • Pusha T: “Great lyricists just, you know, tune into the obvious.” (26:38)

• Travis Scott Dispute

  • Pusha T explains mention of Travis on record—stemming from a perceived lack of loyalty when Travis allowed a Drake verse targeting Pusha to appear after a positive in-person interaction:
    • Pusha T: “How you leave here... when the album drops, you got a verse going at him. So I just thought it was corny… That's the type of thing that happens over in that Ye world.” (47:55)
    • On etiquette: “Just stay the hell away from me. I'm not into you anyway… I'm only dealing with the real.” (49:12)

6. Lyrical Content & Group Dynamic

• Coke Rap Label, Authenticity, Growth
  • Pusha T: “People give you the coke rap moniker... it's so much deeper than that... It's just, you know, right now what we're making is for those who know and for those who understand.” (19:28)
  • Pusha says he no longer feels the need to prove his past.
    • Malice: “My revelation was when I would hear narratives of ‘they weren't into that’... and I'm like, I know what we've been through.” (20:58)
• Mutual Inspiration and Competition
  • Open admiration for each other's lines; sometimes wishing they’d written one another’s verses.
    • Pusha T: “I wish I said that. I wish I said that. That's one. I wish I could have said the mace line, and I wish I said that line.” (54:25)
  • Fans and hosts debate who has the best verse—Pusha jokes about being "0-2." (55:11)

7. Handling Leaks and Nostalgia

• On Music Leaks
  • Malice: “What else can you do other than that? I stand on our product, and I love it. It's good for fans to get things sometimes.” (40:11)
• Fan Growth & Maturing
  • Pusha T: “I'd like to think that they [fans] grown with us... maturing in hip hop and just culturally just showing you how to navigate and grow in this game.” (52:24)

8. Personal Evolution, Safety, and Identity

• Staying Grounded
  • Both still live in Virginia; enjoy hometown relationships and comfort.
    • Malice: “We go out...Every time I'm in a grocery store... they catch me anywhere… Virginia don't be tripping.” (59:19)
    • Pusha T: “I think Virginia... gives a different perspective... Clips is different because of Virginia.” (57:43)
  • Acknowledges safer, more comfortable space now:
    • Charlamagne: “When the last time you felt this safe, Push?... It feels like a homecoming.”
    • Pusha T: “It’s not about feeling safe. It’s just about, you know, this is part of the game for us... when you got the music to back it up, you gotta be, must see TV.” (53:04, 53:25)

9. Cousinz Fest & Live Shows

• Cousinz Festival
  • Annual festival in Virginia Beach, mixing DJs and big name artists; organized around community.
    • Pusha T: “Cousins Festival is August 30th... It is the best one day festival time of Labor Day weekend in Virginia.” (65:18)
    • Not always the headliner; lineup depends on fan polling.

10. Looking Ahead & Closing Thoughts

• No Extended Wait
  • Charlamagne: "Are we gonna have to wait another 15 years...?"
    • Pusha T: “Nah, nah, nah. I don't think so.” (69:24)
• Clipse’s Bond
  • The duo remains closely knit — creatively, personally, and spiritually.
    • Malice: “I'm making music with my brother, and I'm glorifying my God. That's what I'm doing. And when you're in your purpose, if anything fall on you, then it fall on you. At least you know you were where you were supposed to be.” (50:24)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Malice, on the power of family and faith:
  “If you're out here and you have, like, a dysfunction or a lot of disdain between family members, you should really try to fix that...” (16:56)

• Pusha T, on not needing to prove himself:
  “I've been who I've been 23 years. Like, I don't feel like I gotta prove anything to anybody. And I feel like I'm the best at what it is I'm doing.” (19:28)

• Malice, on being authentic and artistic liberty:
  “For anyone who has any questions about me, I'm Jesus inside out... But I just took some artistic liberty, you know, with that line.” (31:22)

• Pusha T, on creative collaboration with Pharrell:
  “There's so much that's centered around the word... you have to let that breathe. And I think he takes that direction.” (62:47)

• Pusha T, on industry drama:
  “They wouldn't text or email... only talk on the phone. I can only assume that it was just the optics with everything they got going on...” (28:45)

• On camaraderie and musical growth:
  “I'd like to think that they grown with us... maturing in hip hop and just culturally just showing you how to navigate and grow in this game.” (52:24)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [04:08] — Origin of the name Clipse
• [05:09] — How Clipse was formed, first raps, Pharrell’s involvement
• [07:31] — Breaking out of Virginia, Philly roots
• [09:36] — Malice on spiritual evolution and comparison with Mase
• [11:37] — Returning to rap, father’s blessing
• [13:44] — Family reactions, mother’s wish for brothers to reunite
• [14:10] — Emotional studio recording, parental dedication track
• [19:28] — Pusha T on evolving lyrical themes and dismissing “coke rap” stereotype
• [28:45] — Def Jam split and complicated label dynamics
• [30:06] — Jay-Z’s role in getting Clipse off Def Jam
• [47:55] — Explanation of Travis Scott conflict
• [53:25] — Pusha T on authenticity in interviews and creative transparency
• [56:05] — Song selection process for the new album
• [62:47] — Pharrell’s production style and approach
• [65:18] — Cousinz Fest overview

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Tone & Style

• The episode is conversational, honest, and sprinkled with brotherly banter and occasional deeper moments about faith, family, artistry, and legacy.
• Pusha T is direct, confident, but reflective; Malice is thoughtful, spiritual, and supportive.

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Final Thoughts

Clipse’s reunion is more than nostalgia—it’s about maturity, faith, authenticity, and setting a high bar for hip hop legacy. The duo candidly tackles past and present, sharing laughter, vulnerability, and insight for fans old and new. The episode showcases why their story and music remain impactful, and why their bond is the heart of their art.

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Transcript

[Host 1]

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[Pusha T]

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[Charlamagne Tha God]

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[DJ Envy]

Whoa.

[Pusha T]

What a vibe we've got, y'. All. As always, it's classic HBCU energy. Nonstop action, the band is rocking and the crowd lit. Chants echoing, drums beating, everybody showing that school pride. Moments like this, yeah, they call for an ice cold Coca Cola. Crisp and refreshing. That's a game changer right there. Mm, yeah, that taste always hit the right note. Just like the band at halftime. Passionate fans, school colors everywhere and an ice cold Coca Cola. That's a winning combo. No matter the place, no matter the moment. Everybody knows fan work is thirsty work. So grab a Coca Cola and and keep that HBCU pride going.

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[Malice]

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[Commercial Voiceover]

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[Malice]

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[Charlamagne Tha God]

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[Malice]

So that means half day. Yeah.

[Commercial Voiceover]

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[Pusha T]

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[Charlamagne Tha God]

Wake that ass up early in the morning.

[DJ Envy]

The Breakfast Club. Morning, everybody. It's DJ Envy. Just hilarious. Charlemagne the guy. We are the Breakfast Club. We got some special guests in the building.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

The legendary the Clips.

[DJ Envy]

What's up, fellas?

[Pusha T]

What's up?

[Malice]

What's up?

[Pusha T]

Is it the clips or is it clips? Okay. Because I say the clips too.

[Malice]

Nah, it's just clips.

[Pusha T]

You call that shot? So it's just clips.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

What's the origins of the name for people who don't know?

[Malice]

Yeah, so. So that came from Full Eclipse. I came up with it and at the time, Fat Joe had the Full Eclipse crew, so we just shortened it to Clips.

[DJ Envy]

Okay, now I want to go back, right, because you guys have been in a long time. Yeah, for a long time. So I want to start from the history. Of course. I know you guys for a long, long, long, long time. So what got you into rapping and to form the group the Clips for people that don't know.

[Malice]

Always, always been a fan of hip hop like anybody else. You know, my older brother was into the whole cardboard box breakdancing, boombox rapping when you had to push play and record and rap directly into the box.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Absolutely.

[Malice]

And yeah, man, just, just coming up. Just coming up under that. And we went to Chad's house one time and Pusha, he wrote his first rap and Pharrell was like, y' all should you know, be a group. His first rap was incredible, but before that, it was just me rapping over there.

[DJ Envy]

Now, when y' all first met Chad and Pharrell, right?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yep.

[DJ Envy]

Y' all are totally opposite. So how did y' all even meet and even learn each other? Cause growing up in Norfolk and Virginia, like, it's totally two different sides. So what made y' all even say, you know what? Let's connect with these guys who were wearing tight shirts at the time and tight pants that look like skateboarders that look nothing like y'.

[Pusha T]

All.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

They might've been serving.

[DJ Envy]

So what made y' all say, you know what? Let's link with them and start this.

[Malice]

Whole rapper, you know, actually, so I was a dj, DJ Alex in Virginia beach, lived down the street from me. And we went out and we rented a drum machine, and we got the drum machine, but we couldn't work it. And, you know, we had to turn it back in soon. We had paid for it, but, you know, we was going to have to turn it back in before we even had a chance to use it. And he was like, you know, let's take it to my homie's house. And. And we went over there, and it happened to be Chad, and he knew how to work it. And, you know, that's just stuff that we was doing before clips.

[DJ Envy]

That's where it started. So when did y' all take it serious? When did you say, you know what this rap thing is something I'm gonna take serious. I'm gonna get off the streets and say, this is what it is?

[Pusha T]

I'd have to say that was in meeting Pharrell. In meeting Pharrell. And, you know, it was Pharrell. It was the Teddy Riley coming to Virginia. You know, we began to see that it was a real thing, that music was actually attainable in arm's reach. I mean, we seeing the cars, we seeing the Ferraris, we seeing Michael Jackson in Virginia Beach. You know, we're seeing emcees hov everybody was coming down. And then at the same time, we had, you know, Timbaland and Missy. They was doing they thing they were. You know, they had left home and went to Jersey and was working with Jodeci. But these are all our childhood, you know, high school, school friends. So we. We got to see it from a lot of different angles that, you know, music was possible.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Why Virginia don't get the, like, the. The. The credit for being a hip hop hotbed or just a black music hotbed?

[DJ Envy]

Not just.

[Pusha T]

Not just music.

[DJ Envy]

You got you remember Allen Iverson from that area, Michael Vicks from that area. Like this. It's so much in that area that people forget about.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Absolutely. I'm just focusing on the music. Cause you got regions and states that get that love. But y' all don't seem to.

[Pusha T]

Well, I think. I think it's because I think a lot of people, everybody who's made it in Virginia actually had to leave Virginia to make it. I don't think any one particular artist of any of us. None of us broke in Virginia. So we always broke, like, Clips broke in Philly. You know, everybody broke somewhere else. So I think. Man.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Clips broke in Philly. I never heard that one.

[Pusha T]

Yeah, man.

[Malice]

Oh, no. Yeah, definitely.

[Pusha T]

Clips broke in Philly, man.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Really?

[Pusha T]

Yeah. Shout out Cosmic Kev. Wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Clips broke in Philly.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I didn't know what record was it.

[Pusha T]

The Funeral or Grinding?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Grinding. Okay.

[Pusha T]

Yeah. Grindin. Broke in Philly.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Got you.

[DJ Envy]

Now, do you remember when Pharrell gave you that beat for Grinding? I remember the first time I heard it. It was confusing. Yeah, it was confused. I was confused. So when he first gave it, how did you know that was the record?

[Pusha T]

You probably got the CD that I was handing out. Yes, I did. Yeah, I believe you did. You know, when we heard it first, we was like. You know, we were. It was. It kind of took us back. Because you got to think, at that time, Pharrell was singing on every hook. It was. Whether it was mystical and whoever, right? So, you know, this is our first joint. And he like, yo, this the one. And we like. We want you singing, like, sing. You better tap or do something. And, you know, he was like, nah, I'm telling you, this is the future. This is what it is. And he was right.

[Malice]

And it was confusing. Cause we actually wrote to it twice.

[Pusha T]

Three times. I think I got three joints on that joint. I still can't blend it to this day.

[DJ Envy]

Cause I don't know where the beat and the snare go at the same time.

[Pusha T]

To actually blend on it.

[DJ Envy]

You just gotta go.

[Pusha T]

That's crazy. That's crazy for you to say that.

[DJ Envy]

Yeah. To this day.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I mean, he's not the greatest dj. Y' all know that.

[Pusha T]

It'd be up there. Envy up there. I just left Vegas with Envy rocking that joint. He was smoking that shit. Thanks.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Thanks. But you know, on the album, Alice, you said you've been both. Mason Bethes.

[Malice]

Yeah, man.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

For people who don't know what that line means, expound on it.

[Malice]

Yeah. I just feel like I understood and walked a similar path like Mace, you know, to be in this industry and then to have a real live revelation of God and who he is, you know, and then have to navigate your way as far as navigating, not so much, because I knew that I had to chill, take a step back. And I also want to give you y' all flowers too, because y' all were still messing with me during that time. You let me come in here and, you know, promote the documentary and, you know, my solo projects and everything, so. Yeah, I appreciate that. But, yeah, I feel like I understand seeing a lot of the same things that, that Mace seen.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I brought that up because, you know, that's.

[Malice]

They actually called me Mace in the club. There's. We was in a club in D.C. and it was like, we got Pusha T and Mason.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Damn. But you ain't been around for a while, though.

[Malice]

Yeah, no, I'm cool with it all. Yeah, I'm cool with it all.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I mean, that's why I brought it up, because that's what ultimately caused the clips to, you know, in for that. That the fifth, last period of time.

[Malice]

That's right.

[Pusha T]

Yeah. Yeah.

[DJ Envy]

So what got you back? What was the call that said, I want to do this again?

[Malice]

There were a few baby steps, I'm gonna say. Going out to Wyoming and, you know, working on Use this gospel with ye. With my brother. I always knew that we could do it, but I just knew I needed a sit down period, you know what I'm saying? And what else did we do? We did push his album. I pray for you.

[Pusha T]

Yeah, we did a Nego album.

[Malice]

The Nego album. Punch bowl. Yeah.

[Pusha T]

So those were things I could ask for that I knew weren't, you know, just solid no's. And, you know, I, I, man, from there it was just like, what we gonna do?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Well, what was the exact moment, though? Cause y' all were on two completely different life paths. So what was the exact moment that said, okay, it's time to do another album?

[Malice]

Okay, so I'll say this. You know, when, when we were doing the use this gospel and punch bowl and push his album or whatever, I had asked my dad, I was like, you know, what do you think about me rapping again? And he said, he said, son, I think you've been too hard on yourself. And, and my dad's a deacon, you know, like, he was a deacon. So to hear him say that, I am like, word. That's how you feel like, you know.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You just answered one of my questions. I was gonna ask you about that, because you talk about that on Birds Don't Sing, right? And I just thought that was such a powerful thing, just. Just to explain, like, yo, you was going through his, you know, dresser drawers, seeing his notes, but then he. Y' all had conversations about you rapping Again, I was gonna ask you, what were those conversations?

[Malice]

Yeah, yeah, We. You know, just everything was the way it lined up. It told the whole story, and it let me know that God is intentional. These things don't just be happening to us the way, you know, we think that God is very gracious, and he sets you up. He knows what you can take. He knows how much to put on you. He knows the order in which to put things in for you. So I just know that he's in control all the time. And the conversations with that record, Pusha talking to my mom and me talking to my dad, and being able to document those last conversations, even those conversations, was a type of preparation, you know, getting you ready for what was about to take place. So, like, I'm. I'm cool with it all.

[DJ Envy]

Well, condolences, first and foremost.

[Pusha T]

Thank you.

[DJ Envy]

Know, I was. When I was in Vegas, you know, I was with family members of yours, and what I like to do is pull them to the side and just have conversations. I knew y' all was coming up for an interview and trying to get tea. Yeah, of course. And one of them was like.

[Pusha T]

Now.

[DJ Envy]

We were talking about the album. This is before I heard the album. And he was like. He was like, yo, the best thing.

[Pusha T]

About it, he was like, I had.

[DJ Envy]

Their mom in the car. And he was like, the greatest thing that ever happened is the two boys are back together, rapping. So how was that feeling of knowing that mom was just super duper happy that her two sons were back rapping?

[Pusha T]

Man, you know, she. That was always a big thing, you know, for me as a soloist. She would always be like, I want you with him. Yeah. I want your brother with you. I want him back out there with you. Probably just to, you know, look over me, watch over me. But that was always her thing. She was huge on, like, us just being together.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah, man. How did y' all know? Y' all had to start the album with a dedication to your parents, like.

[Pusha T]

Cause it was the hardest record to make. Like, it was the hardest record to make.

[DJ Envy]

I felt that one the most on the album.

[Pusha T]

Yeah. So finally, like, when we cracked that code, you know, we were. You know, we were putting the order in, and we was like, man, nah, this has to start like, this has to start the album. It was. It was polarizing, the response, you know, just in the creation of it, man. Everybody who heard it, you know, and there were people in there like, you know, we recorded it in the LV headquarters. So it's a room, and it's, you know, it's open. The mics are like, this ain't no booth. You record like this. You look outside, you look through that window right there. And it's not a window. It's just an open space. You somebody with a sewing machine, somebody with, you know, bags, shoes, whatever. And while we're doing this in real time, everybody's in tears. Like, everybody just, you know, they're watching it. By the time we finish it, it's like, you know, just like any other record. It's like, man, you know, we. We cracked the code on it. Like, we're satisfied, but it was just so hard to do. And everybody's always like, you know, everybody want to put their hardest record first. And I'm like, nah, man, this. This is the. This is the hardest record. And I want to see how it, like, really touches people, you know, from. From the jump and then get into everything else.

[DJ Envy]

Did that change you? Because, you know, you talk about on the record of where you were and the things that you should have been doing that you weren't doing.

[Pusha T]

Yeah.

[DJ Envy]

And then I seen a shift a couple of years with you when you had your son.

[Pusha T]

Yeah.

[DJ Envy]

Like, everything is about your son, and you. You show up more than anything else, and that wasn't you beforehand. So did that change you?

[Pusha T]

What is my first son. So, you know, this is new to me, but, you know, I. Man, I don't know if it changed me. I would say that my parents prepared me to be a dad. Like, a real dad. Cause I had a real dad and a real mom.

[Host 1]

Were there conversations that you wish you had with your mom, like, in those moments where you talk about you went to Turks for Thanksgiving and stuff?

[Pusha T]

No, no. Like, me and my mom was so straight. Like, we've been. Like, we always were straight. And I think that the, you know, the whole. The Turks thing, when, you know, and looking at. In hindsight, you know, she was like, damn, you gonna get out of here. You know, looking at it and everything, I sort of feel like she knows. She knew everything, you know, so, you know, it's just. It was. It tells the story, you know, after. You know what I'm saying? Like, the whole story. For me, like, I see it all now. I see it all, but at the time, No, I didn't.

[Malice]

I think. I think it also says a lot for, you know, being in harmony with your people. Yeah, really, you really should be. Because that is what gives me a lot of peace knowing that, you know, I was there for my mother, great relationship with my mother and my father the whole time. So if you're out here and you have, like, a dysfunction or a lot of disdain between family members, you should really try to fix that. You know what I'm saying? You should really try to fix that if possible. Because right now, with my parents being gone, I get a lot of peace just knowing that everything was straight and always straight.

[Pusha T]

That's about the only thing.

[Malice]

Yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

How did y' all choose who was going to rap about who?

[Malice]

I. That. That was kind of easy. I mean, and even though we were, you know, just all of us very close knit and tight knit, you know, my dad and I, we always talked about things of. Of the Bible, you know, and just whole. Even my mom, because my mom was, you know, over the house every Saturday for Bible study. But I don't know, it just seemed like it kind of made more sense for, you know, me talking about my dad. Will we get a visual for this video?

[Pusha T]

I mean, it's already shot. Okay. It's already shot.

[Malice]

Look at you. You smiling like you already knew you.

[Pusha T]

Talked to the family.

[DJ Envy]

But I think I pull everybody to the side. Definitely.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Ask, how difficult is it to rap honestly next to your brother? Because y'. All. Y' all really know each other. So you could be like, yo, you lying. That ain't happen.

[Malice]

We don't. We don't have them kind of issues. Okay, yeah, yeah, it's cool. What you getting is real.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

But is it ever, like, all right, maybe that's too much. Like, maybe we shouldn't say that.

[Pusha T]

I think.

[Malice]

I think Pusha likes, or especially now, he likes when I curse. You know what I'm saying? Like, he tries to encourage me, like, all the way there with it. You know what I'm saying? But, nah, I mean, the rapping is. It's just like second nature to us. And we've been doing this for a.

[Pusha T]

While, so this the funnest rapping has ever been. I'm gonna be honest with you, man.

[Malice]

This go round.

[Pusha T]

Yeah, like, this. The funnest rap has been like, this ain't even. Like, that's not a thing. Like, it's, you know, the rollout and all of that is, like, the work.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

This.

[Pusha T]

The music. Nah, the music is what it is. Like, the music is there.

[DJ Envy]

You Feel like you gotta. Sorry, you feel like you gotta prove yourself, though. Cause it's like, I've seen it with hov, right people. Hov you lying. You ain't really do that.

[Pusha T]

Oh, man. Do you feel like you gotta. Bro, I've been in this 23 years. Like, I've been who I've been 23 years. Like, I don't feel like I gotta prove anything to anybody. And I feel like I'm the best at what it is I'm doing. Like, I don't think nobody talks like this. Nobody. Like, it's a lot that comes with this. And I feel like people give you the coke rap moniker, bro. We, like, it's so much deeper than that. And listen, I don't even argue. I don't even argue the title no more. It's fine. It's just, you know, right now what we're making is for those who know and for those who understand and for those who are like, you know, into hip hop, into the lifestyle. And I think that's what you're seeing in the whole rollout of this album. This is high taste level everything. And, you know, and it shows the heritage of, like, how and what we've been a part of for all these years. You know, whether it's, you know, high fashion, whether it's Carhartt, whether it's street wear, whether, you know, whatever it is, it's all hip hop. Like, this is we trying to give the hip hop tutorial of, like, why we loved rappers, why, you know, the rappers. I cut my eyebrows broke, you know, like, these things I did. Like, I did, you know, and I want people to love us in that way. And I want to show that, like, you know, this is what. This is what hip hop means to us. Like, be entrenched. And that's what we're just trying to show, you know.

[Malice]

That's funny because that was one of my revelations with my departure. Everything that we were talking about, the things that we had been through, the things that we were sharing, and then to see how it all came crashing down with friends and family, you know, around us. And death, yeah, death indictments, even to present day, you know what I'm saying? The same people that we were running with, we've lost a few more recently. But my revelation was when I would hear narratives of they weren't into that or they weren't doing this and that. And I'm like, I know what we've been through. And for anyone to say anything like that, to have such a sacrifice of all these things going down, just for someone to say that, which doesn't trouble me at all, doesn't bother me. You know, people have their opinions and can say what they want, but to be fighting for that and talking that, and then. Then when it happens, and then somebody gonna say, you ain't do that. I was like, oh, man. No, I'm chilling.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I'm good. I'm good. I didn't hear a lot of cocaine rap on this record, though. Was that intentional?

[Ad Read Announcer]

Do you think you should?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

No, not as. Honestly, not as the clips project.

[Pusha T]

Right. No. I think.

[Malice]

I think it's more reminiscent.

[Pusha T]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

If you give a little. In the beginning. Give a little something zone.

[Pusha T]

No.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah. Point of view is about the culture.

[Host 1]

I think in the beginning, it opens up. That's my favorite.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That's verse of the year.

[DJ Envy]

For who?

[Pusha T]

You really?

[Malice]

They tried. They tried to scrap that.

[Pusha T]

I tried. I tried to scrap it.

[Malice]

They tried to scrap that.

[Pusha T]

Yeah, yeah. I told them.

[Malice]

I was like, no, that's it. Why you can't scrap it.

[Pusha T]

He made me keep it. Why did you Want to get 3.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Stars, 7,500 club getters, 20,000 networks?

[Pusha T]

Why did you want to scrap it? Because I was actually mimicking Guru, like, vocally, and I didn't think I nailed it good enough. And I was just like, man, yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I didn't get Guru.

[Pusha T]

Oh, yeah, okay, okay. I mean, you know, very monotone, very conversational. Very. And it was like, you know that. I mean, I just didn't. I wasn't sold on the execution.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Nah. That's the verse of the year, King.

[Pusha T]

Oh, man, that's crazy. That's crazy.

[Malice]

I agree.

[Pusha T]

Listen, thank him. Cause it was gone.

[Malice]

That's my favorite verse of his up there. Yeah.

[DJ Envy]

The other day.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Hold on real quick. So, Matt, did you tell him, like, I don't want to do too much of the cocaine thing on this?

[Malice]

No, I mean, I think, you know, that's the good thing. Between my brother and I, things are understood, you know, he knows where I stand. I know where he stands. I don't try to change him or he don't try to change me. And it's. It's a good playing field where we come together and it's just real. We don't have to, like, overcompensate or manufacture anything. It's just what it is.

[DJ Envy]

The other day, they said I was glazing the clips, right?

[Pusha T]

Why?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Because.

[DJ Envy]

What I said was. I said. I said something to this fact. I said, push has. If he hears anybody go at him.

[Pusha T]

He has five records on the side.

[DJ Envy]

Or five verses, just in case. I said, I just know because I know who he is and what he is. Is that true?

[Pusha T]

No, man, I'm not. I'm not. Listen. I'm not. Listen, man. You know, he said, no. He said, now he looks good.

[Malice]

Like the skin.

[Pusha T]

I like skin compliments. I do like skin compliments. I'm gonna tell you.

[DJ Envy]

But when it comes to rappers and sometimes they throw stones at you, do you have something in the stash for.

[Pusha T]

Each and every one of them, man? I mean, I think, you know, just me being a rap artist and me being an emcee, that's just second nature. And usually most people who throw stones, man, I mean, nobody's perfect. So, I mean, I can dissect anybody just like they could dissect me. But, you know, man, I try not to. I try not to engage too much. Like, I've done that. Like, I've done a lot of it. You know what I'm saying? I've done it with the best and the biggest. Like, I've done it. So it's like, you know, you can't just entertain everything. Cause everybody. And everybody's not good. Like, everybody's not good. This is a new day and a new era where, like, you know, just clicks and click bait and people just say things for attention. And it's like, you just can't entertain everything, man. You just can't.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I feel like you've been trying to catch a body since the Story of Adenando. I really.

[Pusha T]

I've been trying to catch a body.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Well, you caught one. I'm thinking that was a body. I think those would shots directly at you, but you. You were surgical with it. You even said, at the end, I'm gonna peel back the layers real slow. So I feel like you really wanted to go there with somebody for the longest.

[Pusha T]

Nah, man. Nah, nah. I mean, you know, it's. It's never a man. I got. I got for real. I have a lot to rap about. I got a lot to rap about. I got a lot. A lot of content. The creativity is ever flowing, and it don't ever have to be about an individual. It don't have to be, like, not for me. Like, I mean, I feel like this album is incredible, and I don't think it's really dialed anywhere.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You could get an accessory to murder charge, though. Cause when you listen to Euphoria, there's a lot of pushing in Euphoria. There's a lot of things that you laid. You Know, you laid down that Kendrick used for Euphoria and I think just.

[Pusha T]

Used in the battle period, man. You know, I think, you know, great, great lyricists just, you know, tune into the obvious.

[DJ Envy]

Did y' all ever speak during that battle?

[Pusha T]

Hell, yeah.

[DJ Envy]

Oh, y' all did speak during the battle, my guy.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Accessory, accessory, accessory. I knew it. I knew it. I knew it.

[Host 1]

When do you pick and choose when to say something about something, though? Because you sit on a lot of stuff for a long time.

[Pusha T]

Yeah, I mean, I'm always like that. Like, I feel like. And that just comes with. That just comes with, like, my position in the game and, like, just where I am as an artist. Like, man, I don't. You know, it's not always a radio record that I have. It's not always, you know, we don't get. You know, I'm not putting out music constantly. You know what I'm saying? Every five minutes, a new record. I feel like, you know, things happen. You gotta store it. You gotta store it. You gotta craft it. You gotta make it right. You gotta set the platform, set the stage.

[DJ Envy]

Now break down the what to hit. The situation with Def Jam. You guys were on Def Jam.

[Pusha T]

Yes.

[DJ Envy]

Decided to leave.

[Pusha T]

Yeah, you crazy too, man. You can sit up here and tell some. Def Jam. You was like, yo, Def Jam. Def Jam. Don't care about your project. You.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Can'T talk about money.

[Pusha T]

Crazy.

[DJ Envy]

So what happened?

[Pusha T]

You're an honest man, man.

[Malice]

Yeah.

[Pusha T]

He started the interview.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I was like, I'm not gonna do that to her. Like, what is you. If you're not up here to talk about your music, what are we gonna be talking about?

[Pusha T]

Right?

[DJ Envy]

And I actually left that day because they didn't send the album. He still wanted to do it, but.

[Host 1]

I was pushing for her because I love Coco.

[Pusha T]

Yeah, yeah, she dope.

[Host 1]

If we being honest, though, because listening to the project now and knowing the background with y' all on Def Jam, you. I don't understand why they would let a project like this go.

[DJ Envy]

Well, listen, so what was the call when you handed in the album? And they called and said, we can't put this out. We can't clear this record. What was that call like?

[Pusha T]

I mean, it was. You know what it was? It was something that I wasn't really dealing with firsthand. They were, like, speaking to my management and my team, and just like. You know, then it got. It got a little dicey. To where? To the point they weren't. They wouldn't text or email, send these things in email. They would, like, Only talk on the phone. And, you know, they would instruct not to email us back and forth these. You know, that type of correspondence. So, I mean, man, you know, it's. I don't know. Like, I don't know why. I mean, I can only assume that it was just the optics with everything they got going on, with litigation, lawsuits and all of that. The optics of clips Kendrick together. Because that's when it all happened. Like, we don't really deal with the label that much anyway, outside of nothing, actually. Yeah, we don't deal with the label. Like, we. We go make our album and then we come and bring the album back. Right. But y'.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

All. You and Kendrick have worked together before. Y' all got a classic together, if you ask me.

[Pusha T]

Nostalgia. So, yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

What's the difference?

[Pusha T]

Oh, it's a different day. It wasn't. You know, that was back then, which.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I wasn't even shooting that, dude.

[Pusha T]

It does. It doesn't matter.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That's crazy.

[Pusha T]

Yeah.

[DJ Envy]

So then. So when you wanted to leave, you call Hov, and then the first rumor was they just let you go for free. We was like, that can't be true.

[Pusha T]

No, no, no, no, no, no. He had to pay. He had to pay.

[DJ Envy]

So you reached out to Hov and Hove, said absolutely positive.

[Pusha T]

Steven did shout out to Steven. Yeah, Steven. Steven reached out to him. There were other labels in the bidding, and he just called Hov like, yo, I think there was an approval process between one of the labels or something, took a little long. And he went and asked Hov, and Hov was like, look, yeah, let's do this now. Like 24 hours. Maybe. Maybe 48 hours. I never seen lawyer work like this that fast. Yeah, I didn't know it even happened like that.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And what record was Hov supposed to be on on this project?

[Pusha T]

Shit, man. I mean, we got. He was sent Chains and whips.

[Malice]

Mike Tyson.

[Pusha T]

Mike Tyson. Blow to the face. You know, HOV had the album, so, you know, so be it. Yeah, it was. It was all for him to. Whatever he wanted to do.

[Malice]

Are you supposed to be on so Be It? Yeah, that was one of the options. Yeah.

[Pusha T]

Yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And nothing moved his spirit.

[Pusha T]

Hey, man, I don't know, man. I don't know, man. You know?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You know, on POV Malice, you said that you came back for the money. That's the devil. Can you explain it?

[Malice]

Yeah, I just thought it was a real fly line, you know? And for anyone who has any questions about me, I'm Jesus inside out. Like, I'm all the way Gone with it like it's crazy. But I just took some artistic liberty, you know, with that line. And really, to me, you know, money is a good thing. You need money, especially to, you know, if you got friends and family to be able to help people. Is nothing wrong with money. I think people put a stigma on money, for the Bible says that it is the love of money that's the root of all evil. Not the money, it's how much you love it. What are you willing to do for it? What won't you do for do you lose all your principles and your morals? So I don't think we, we can demonize money. But for me, it was just a fly line.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And you said you gave the money to the church, right?

[Malice]

Nah, nah, not lying.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah, piece of the planet Charlemagne to God here now. You know, the end of the year is when, like a lot of business owners, I really lock in. All right? This is the time to set the foundation for next year. You got new ideas, new product drops, new goals. And when I'm building anything meaningful, I need the right tools. That's why I always tell folks, especially black entrepreneurs and small black owned businesses, Shopify is the move, okay? We use it at the Black Effect podcast network. And I've seen firsthand how it helps creators and business owners grow with confidence. Entrepreneurship is very important to me, okay? There's nothing wrong with working for people. There's nothing wrong with partnering people. But you should strive to own your own as well. And Shopify can help others grow into entrepreneurs. It's like having a whole team behind you. Your chief of staff, your personal assistant, your co founder, all in one platform. Whether you're running a side hustle or a full storefront selling, selling locally or worldwide, Shopify takes all the guesswork out. Shopify brings everything into one place. You can sell on your website, on social media, and even in the real world. Like some of our partners at our Black Effect Festival coming up in April. Wherever your people are, Shopify makes sure your business can meet them where they're at. Plus, you got Shopify, Sidekick and their AI tools. Total game changers. I love how it's like having an assistant giving you insights, content, ideas, edits. Shopify's got your next move covered.

[Malice]

So.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

So let me ask you this. If you're ready to take the next step in your life, whether it's merch, products or anything in between, get on shopify.com BEN. That's shopify.com BEN and make it happen. It is time to stop putting off your future and start your new role as your own boss today.

[Commercial Voiceover]

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[Malice]

All.

[Commercial Voiceover]

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[Pusha T]

Mmm.

[Commercial Voiceover]

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[Pusha T]

Push past physical and mental breaking points.

[Ad Read Announcer]

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[Malice]

This is where mindset comes in.

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[Pusha T]

The line is fresh.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

For the money.

[Malice]

That's the devil in me. Had to hide it from the church. That's the Jekyll in me. But I'm just talking about the duplicity and the dichotomy of, you know, the mind and how people think and the two sidedness to people sometimes. That's everybody.

[Pusha T]

Absolutely.

[Malice]

Yeah, that's everybody.

[DJ Envy]

Now you mentioned Mace earlier, right?

[Malice]

Yeah.

[DJ Envy]

When Mace came back, they was on his ass, right? Because of the lyrics, because of this type of records that he was on. But with you, they don't do that with you. Why do you think that is?

[Malice]

I don't, I don't know. But I'm tell you for me and looking at Mace now, like I get Mace, like I understand people are judgmental, you know what I'm saying? I've heard a few things about me, you know, I'm not going to act like I haven't seen anything. But you, you have to know, be solid in who you are. And if you have the word in you, the Bible says that there is none righteous. No, not one. So nobody can like truly point the finger. But you better have your heart positioned in Jesus Christ by the end of the day because when, when, when the music stop, you definitely want to have a seat.

[Pusha T]

He taught me that. Cause I didn't know. He told me that God think we all dirty. That's what he told me.

[DJ Envy]

How do your conversations be like, do you brother about forgiveness? And then your brother be like, leave me alone.

[Malice]

No, you know what, Listen, I'm gonna tell you like my brother listens to me, you know, now or he has the appearance of listening. Yeah, he hears me, he hears me. And anytime I get to witness to anybody, you know, without being preachy or forcing myself, you know what I'm saying? The problem is for me is that I happen to know how serious this is. And the thing about not knowing is that you don't know that you don't know, you know what I'm saying? So when you're trying to, when people open the door and are willing to listen, I try to do whatever it is I can. But my brother, he's been incredibly supportive of me even in my stepping away. He's never, you know, was like, yo, what are you doing? Or this. Like, he basically just said, okay. You know, he asked me, was I sure? You know, And. And that meant a lot to me because I had. I had a lot. It was like a heavy weight. So to have the support of my brother, even through the whole hiatus, he would come to me. He was like, yo, so and so's offering this amount of money.

[DJ Envy]

But.

[Pusha T]

But what he did.

[Malice]

But.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

But.

[Malice]

But what he would do was he said, I already told them no, but I didn't want this to happen without me letting you know, just in case. You know what I'm saying? So.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I said no, but just in case.

[Pusha T]

Right, Right.

[Malice]

Yeah, well, you know, I felt supported, so that's all that matters. We all feel robbed when people. Never feel robbed.

[Pusha T]

Okay.

[Malice]

Never feel robbed.

[Pusha T]

How do you feel when people leak music?

[Malice]

Like, when people release y' all music prematurely? Yo, you know, the game goes how it goes, and that's how we maneuver. We navigate everything. I'm not gonna sit up and be upset about anything. You know, that happens when we get in there and we create and we make our music and we do what we do. We. What else you gonna do? What else can you do other than that? You know what I'm saying? And I stand on our product, and I love it. And it's good for fans to get things sometimes. So it's cool. Like, as long as they enjoy it, it's good. Yeah.

[Host 1]

Did y' all ever think about trying to get another Kendrick verse once that leaked before the album actually, like, dropped?

[Pusha T]

Yeah, man, we try to get all Kendrick verses. Why not?

[DJ Envy]

Well, y' all kind of leaked it. Y' all knew playing that song in Paris with everybody's phone out, it was going to. Y' all had to know that.

[Pusha T]

Yeah, you know, this is part of it.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

They knew.

[Pusha T]

Part of roll out.

[DJ Envy]

Roll out.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You know, Envy said something about what you. What you asked about malice, about. Well, why you don't get the flack? I think one reason is because y' all have always had, like, a spiritual thread in your music, especially with the. The album titles.

[Pusha T]

So.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

So how has your personal understanding of good and evil evolved since, like, hell have no fury?

[Malice]

Good and evil, how has it evolved?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

How does your personal understanding of it evolve? Even talking about rap, like, you know, people. Some people say rap music is secular. It's the devil. You shouldn't do it. But then, you know, you went on your journey and you were doing it even while you were on your journey.

[Malice]

But now you're Back, like, yeah, I think one of the things that I have learned is start with yourself before you try to correct anybody, Matt. I'm not even saying you should try and correct anybody, but you start with yourself and looking within and change the things that you can change and work on what you need to work on, and then you can, like, offer some kind of advice or if people are even interested, you know what I'm saying? Be able to give a reason for the hope that you have. And yeah, I think if more of us looked at ourselves instead of trying to judge other people, I mean. Cause, you know, you look deep enough, you'll find something all the time, you know? So going back to what you said about when you went to Wyoming to.

[Pusha T]

Do use this Gospel, by the way.

[Malice]

The hardest song on that album. How do y' all feel about Kanye now?

[Pusha T]

Do y' all feel sadness or sympathy for him?

[Malice]

We all see him now.

[Pusha T]

No, no.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Talk to your brother.

[Malice]

No, no, no, no, no, no. All I'm gonna say, I'm gonna. For anybody, it's crazy. When you have a true revelation of God, it is radical because when the scales fall off your eyes, you do you want to run and tell everybody what you witness? We've been missing it this whole time. It's how I felt. But once you get that, you got to sit down for a minute. You can't get the revelation and then try to keep going. In this world, the. The. The epitome of the gospel is denying yourself. That's why Christ got on the cross and gave up his flesh. So you have to be willing to give it up so you can learn and then let God restore you and rebuild you, you know, correctly. Doesn't mean anybody is a perfect person, you know what I'm saying? Or you can't even try to have the facade of, okay, I'm safe now, now I'm perfect. Nah, it just doesn't work like that.

[Pusha T]

So how did you deal with it?

[Malice]

Push.

[Pusha T]

Cause. Deal with Kanye.

[DJ Envy]

Cause you're not a type of person to hold your tongue. You don't hold your words. So when some of the stuff that he did that might not have aligned what you thought. Did y' all have those conversations?

[Pusha T]

Well, I mean, you know, I spoke on it. I feel like that was the beginning of our fallout. But, you know, he sits on a.

[Malice]

Lot of miscarriages of justice. I've seen it. You know what I'm saying? I hear things and things being said, and I see his reserve. You know, I admire his restraint. People, by the time he jumps out the window, you think he's going overboard. But I'm telling you, as knowing my brother, he sits on a lot.

[DJ Envy]

And what about all that music? I'm sure you, you got tons of music, but we never hear the stuff that you've done, is produced or.

[Pusha T]

Yeah, you will, because they leak it all. They leak it all. They put out or just sloppy. You know, I don't, you know, I don't know, I don't, I don't use. I don't even keep it. But, you know, you, you've seen and heard the things that have been out there.

[Host 1]

But I saw you say you hate Kanye's leadership and you got away from that, got away from that community that he built because of the feeling over there, right? What was that, like, last straw? Of like, nah, I can't no more.

[Pusha T]

I think for me it was, I think for me it was somewhere around, somewhere around the Atlanta, the dome, the. Locked in. When everybody was locked in the dome. And, and you know, I, you know, like again, man, when we squad and we working and we doing what we doing, it's just all about the squad. And I kind of just felt like, you know, I would, you know, I would have to leave and go do things, shows, whatever the case may be, I would come back and the energy would just be different. You know, there were conversations being had. You know, this is after Adidon and everything else. And you know, was like, man, I was doing self serving things and it was just crazy. It was just a lot of like, you know, backbiting and things like that. And I'm like, damn, this is, this is for the squad, I thought. But, you know, it ended up not.

[DJ Envy]

Being publicly negative about you. We heard him say it about Sean. We heard him say who? John Legend? Yeah.

[Pusha T]

Oh, no, for sure he has. For sure he has. He put on, remember he put on a little mask. He was like screaming in the.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Define what is culturally inappropriate.

[Malice]

Oh, man.

[Pusha T]

Yeah. No, listen, man. Okay, so during, during just the sessions, whether it was a beat, whether it was, you know, just the freestyles before and making the songs, whatever the case may be, you know, we would get hype about just like, man, this hard or whatever, whatever it was at the time, and I forgot who said it, but. Was Mike.

[Malice]

Mike?

[Pusha T]

Yeah, Mike was like, man, this shit is culturally in a fucking appropriate. And Mike also worked on It's Almost Dry. So you know how that had a common thread of like the joker laugh through the whole album. He was like, yo, say that on the mic and let Me run that through a filter. Because, you know, we just felt like we just kept running that back. It's culturally inappropriate. He was like, say it through a filter. Let's find a voice, and let's just see how it sounds on records. And it actually just worked just to have that, you know, just another thread to keep it, you know, cohesive, keep the album cohesive.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I mean, I like it just because it's something that I feel like we should say something is culturally inappropriate.

[Pusha T]

Yeah, it could have been a line. What I'm saying is it could have been a line. It could have been a song. It could have been a hook idea. At the time, I just, you know, I just can't remember what it was. But that's. That's where that. That term came from. Something that was just said ignorantly.

[DJ Envy]

And what pissed you off about Travis Scott so much that you had to mention him on a record? Like, what made you say, this isn't. This nigga's going too far?

[Pusha T]

Ah, man, it was just, you know, it was just that. That whole coming to. Coming to Paris, you know, he came to Paris during one of our sessions, you know, played his album, and then he, you know, when. When he left the album comes out, and, you know, the record that he played, you know, had a verse up there that was, you know, going at P, whatever the case may be. And I'm like, damn, you just left. Like, how you. How you leave here? You know, let. He was on your album. And then you're letting them, you know, play your album form, you're filming it, and then you come back when the album drops, you got a verse, you know, going at him. So I just thought that was corny. And again, like, you know, that's part of the. I think that's part of just trying to leave all of that behind. And it's like, man, like, that's the type of thing that happens over in that yay world, and it's okay. And they, you know, it's all right. They just brush it off and they be friends and they go hang out together and then, you know, do whatever they do. Like, that doesn't. I didn't like that. That was brought into this fold.

[DJ Envy]

Yeah, one time they said the verse. The Drake verse wasn't done as of yet.

[Pusha T]

Doesn't matter when it was done to the rest. I don't care when it was done. You. You. You added to it. You actually. He actually had a verse after that verse. So you. You even added to the verse, like.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

So what's proper etiquette for a situation like that.

[Pusha T]

Just stay the hell away from me. Like, just stay away. Like, I'm not. I'm not into you anyway. Like, I'm not even into your swag or none of that. Like, it's not into none of it. So just stay away. Like, I only want to mess with the real. Like, I'm only dealing with the real. I'm only, you know, doing music with the real. We just. I just. Let's just. Let's just. This is like, just drawing a line in the sand for everybody.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

But are you responsible for what an artist does on your record? Are you responsible for what an artist does on your record?

[Host 1]

Like, is Travis responsible for Drake's line?

[Pusha T]

If you. If you come and dance around in front of me and use and use and use footage and do all this and all that, I think you're responsible for anything that you do, that you incorporate the people that you know that are that are that are that are that are being, you know, talked about. Of course.

[Malice]

I can't believe you have to explain this.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You know what happened. I know that's your brother, and I'm sure.

[Malice]

No, and I'm not just taking sidesword because my brother. I'm just saying, you know, like.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

But I'm talking about the artists who might approach you because of what Pusha says.

[Malice]

I mean, listen, I ride with my brother. You know what I'm saying? And that's the thing about this having purpose. I know what my purpose is. I'm making music with my brother, and I'm glorifying my God. That's what I'm doing. And when you're in your purpose, if anything fall on you, then it fall on you. At least you know you were where you were supposed to be. And that's where I'm at right now. So I'm cool with whatever.

[DJ Envy]

All right.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You hear that?

[Pusha T]

Envy.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

So when people approach you for things I say, your only approach is you don't go out.

[Pusha T]

That's it.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

All the time. But also on so be it. You said you got a video of Travis crying? No.

[Pusha T]

No, man. You cried in front of me. Yeah. Oh, no, no, that.

[DJ Envy]

That.

[Pusha T]

That wasn't that. That's not about crying.

[Host 1]

So what's on the video?

[Pusha T]

Oh, man. You know? Yeah. You know.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

God damn.

[Host 1]

You know you're looking for.

[Pusha T]

I got you.

[Malice]

But I'm glad malice is here, because.

[Pusha T]

Pusha probably can't do interviews by herself.

[DJ Envy]

Now, Tyler, the creator. How did you and Tyler create?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Phenomenal.

[DJ Envy]

It gets busy by the way.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah.

[Pusha T]

Hell yeah.

[Malice]

Right?

[Pusha T]

Tyler's crazy, man. Tyler been we. I mean, since Trouble on My Mind. He's huge. Star Trek, Neptune, Pharrell clips fan. Like, he knows the discography, you know, frontwards and backwards. He's spoken a lot about how his influence. He's been influenced by things that we've done. But, yeah, I mean, I don't even remember the year Trouble in My Mind came out. But since then, we've always been. Always been cool, always been tight. And, yeah, he came through on pov. He came through.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Now he got busy.

[DJ Envy]

He killed it.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

How do you reconcile the nostalgia fans will feel for the old clips? Being that y' all totally different men today?

[Pusha T]

I'd like to think that they grown with us.

[Malice]

Yeah.

[Pusha T]

Yeah. I'd like to think that they have. And I. And I think that, you know, I think that they've grown with us, and I feel like our growth is something that, you know, needs to be studied and studied and just, you know, maturing in hip hop. Maturing in hip hop and just culturally just showing you how to navigate and grow in this game and still be current and still be, you know, of the mix and, you know, just not trying to stay 19 forever.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah.

[Pusha T]

Like.

[Malice]

Yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

When the last time you felt this safe, Bush? Cause I can hear it in the music. It feel like a homecoming, right?

[Pusha T]

Yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Even with the things that y' all talking about, you got malice back. I have livers on the album. Pharrell production.

[Pusha T]

Yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

When I'm watching you in interviews, I'm like, damn. Push is just letting it fly.

[Pusha T]

All of it.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

When did you. What made you feel so safe in this moment?

[Pusha T]

I don't. You know, I just think that. I don't know. For me, I look at it like media has always been a big part of the clips because it's always been a story. The clips always has a story. And I don't necessarily think you can get up here and lie and play. People see through that. And I'm not one to be seen through. Like, I don't. Like, I'd rather just, you know, just tell the truth and call it a day versus, you know, sitting here trying to tap dance around things. So I, you know, I don't know. I think that it's not about feeling safe. It's just about, you know, this is part of the game, and this is part of the game for us. And I feel like when you got the music to back it up, man, you gotta listen, you gotta. You gotta be, must see tv. Yeah, you Gotta be.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

So you don't enjoy rappers lying. I think it was malice on the album.

[Pusha T]

Said that was one of my favorite lines. I wanted to say that.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah, you've been entertained by rappers you never believed or something like that.

[Pusha T]

I done sung along with rappers I never believed. I wish I said that. I wish I said that. That's one. That's. I wish I could have said the mace line, and I wish I said that line. Those are my two takes.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

How often does that happen before?

[Pusha T]

I was gonna say, do y' all do that all the time?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Like, is it if you two switch verses on, like, a classic clip song?

[Pusha T]

Like, he ain't giving me his verse. I don't even understand. They saying, I'm 0 and 2 right now. What y' all talking about? That is the debate online. I am 02.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Damn.

[Pusha T]

I'm owing 2.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Oh, just off features.

[Pusha T]

No, off the record. Off the records. I'm 02 right now.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah, yeah.

[Malice]

Don't never be like, yo, bro, you can have this push.

[Pusha T]

No.

[DJ Envy]

Do you try to spank your brother every time you rap with him?

[Pusha T]

I'm sure.

[Malice]

Nah, man, I just do me, man. And I think our personalities and experience lends itself to, you know, just different scenarios or whatever.

[Pusha T]

Yeah. Different bases.

[Malice]

Different bases. I can't do what push does. You know what I'm saying? I get that. And all I can do is be me.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

So you've never heard a push line and be like, damn, I wish I.

[Malice]

Said that all the time. All the time. Yeah.

[Host 1]

I was going to ask. At the listening that we went to, y' all talked about, y' all didn't have a ton of music. Y' all were very particular about recording, and this is the music we're going to do.

[Malice]

Right.

[Host 1]

And you've always been that way, but it's been so long. So how did you know what you wanted to say? Like, how did you narrow it down to narrative?

[Pusha T]

I think the key thing that we were trying to find in the studio was urgency. Urgency was like, the key word that regardless of what it was, it could be birds don't sing. It had to be urgent. It had to tug at your heart. If you listen to pov, the flow had to be something of or the bars had to be something of urgency. So it wasn't about honestly finding words or topics to rap about. It was just that the music needed to feel urgent the whole time. I think that was our. I think that was our biggest goal. Just to make sure that that sense of urgency was there.

[DJ Envy]

Talk about what Virginia means to you guys. Cause you get a lot of people that leave their city and they move to New York, they move to Jersey, they move to Atlanta, they move to the West. You guys have never left Virginia. So what does Virginia mean to you?

[Malice]

For me, Virginia is everything. Childhood upbringing, where my mother, grandmother, and.

[Pusha T]

Great grandmother hail from.

[Malice]

Friends, you know, we were just talking about this. We have the same friends from, you know, way back, and just certain ethics and standards of loyalty, you know, that has been bred in Virginia. I absolutely love Virginia. I wouldn't want to move anywhere else. It's my pace, it's my style. It's what I know. It's home.

[Pusha T]

Yeah. I think Virginia, for me, and the fact of never moving, I always felt like my music would suffer, the writing would suffer. I've always felt like that. I don't. It's the comfort. The comfort of being there, and I think that it gives a different perspective. I feel like the clips. Damn. The clips.

[Malice]

Clips.

[Pusha T]

I feel like clips. I feel like clips is different because of Virginia. I feel like the music that we. And the influences that we've been afforded by living in Virginia, a military town. There were things I never knew about musically or would have never ran across if we weren't in Virginia. And, you know, the Flavor for yous, the mixtape shops and, you know, I was exposed to the bass sound. I was exposed to Houston because of this town. And it was only because, like, it was such a military town that all these different influences came there musically.

[Malice]

Even.

[Pusha T]

Even. I mean, even the late early 80s, late 80s, the whole drug culture that. The New York to Virginia pipeline that brought so much music, so much influence. It brought so much. Man, you. You know, man, if you just think about. If you just think. Yeah, if you just think about, though, like, the 90s, it was. It was mace. It was big. It was Wu Tang. It was everybody rapping about Virginia Beach.

[Malice]

Yeah.

[Pusha T]

Like, you know, just to. To know, like, it was. And it was such. It was so impressionable. I think that, that, that. That gave us a lot of fuel, a lot of information, and a lot of different things to take from. To create what the clips are today.

[DJ Envy]

When you met your wife. I'm sorry? When you met your wife?

[Pusha T]

Yes.

[DJ Envy]

Did you know she was the one as soon as she said her name?

[Pusha T]

No, no, not off of Virginia. You met somebody with wife, Virginia.

[Malice]

Oh, wow, that is wild.

[Pusha T]

Nah, that was crazy, though. But. Yeah, but she from there too. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. For sure. So do y', all, like, go out in Virginia?

[Malice]

Y' all move around in Virginia.

[Pusha T]

Totally, totally, totally. Cause a lot of rappers have to. I'm sorry, Ronald. A lot of rappers, like, have to.

[Malice]

Leave their city because of that, you.

[Pusha T]

Know, with love comes the hate. The bigger you get.

[Malice]

Nah. You know, up at the office, they were just talking about what they hear about us at home and how we're out. You know, every time I'm in a grocery store, you know, I'm taking a picture by the peanut butter that I don't want to take. I mean, I do, you know, with the people, but just, you know, they catch me anywhere. And they. They said I'm out there officiating weddings, and people see me at the gas station. Like, you know, we go out. Yeah, we definitely go out. And it feels good to be able to, you know, Virginia. Don't be tripping. Virginia is cool.

[Host 1]

But y' all are like that almost. Not everywhere. But, like, I saw there was a video, you in Miami, Push. And the guy walked up, I'm like, where is all the people with him? Like, you just walking around.

[Pusha T]

I was mad about that one.

[Ad Read Announcer]

Yeah.

[Pusha T]

Everybody was joking.

[DJ Envy]

What was the security? You was by one other, and I was mad about that one.

[Pusha T]

Yeah, I had to, man. I was. I was. I was going to get. I was going to get a Mother's Day gift, I think. And, you know, just outside, man, he.

[Malice]

Just walked up on you.

[Pusha T]

Yeah, but, you know, and you all laid back and chill and it gotta be.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I mean, you know, you know, somebody got a gun.

[Pusha T]

Listen, man, he was so chill out. Nobody had a gun, right? Let's leave it there.

[Malice]

What is. What is the skin regimen?

[Pusha T]

Because, brother Push, I'm sitting here looking.

[Malice]

At the inside of your ear, and it looks.

[Pusha T]

Glad I've never seen the inside of somebody ear look so smooth like that. Like, you, too, matters. You won't be able to glance into it. I appreciate it.

[Malice]

What y' all do?

[Pusha T]

Is it the diet? Is it like. What is it?

[Malice]

I. I think. I think it's working out.

[Pusha T]

I don't know if it's.

[Malice]

No, no, no.

[Pusha T]

I'm saying, is it the diet? Is it their diet?

[DJ Envy]

Oh, diet.

[Pusha T]

Yeah, that's you. Is it your diet? Is it like.

[Malice]

What is it?

[Pusha T]

I think.

[Malice]

I think, you know, we work out every day, you know, and we enjoy that. I think that's fine. Watching what you eat, you know, I think. I think we are the first generation in our family, you know, reading labels and calorie counts and proteins and stuff like that. So maybe that's what it is. I Don't know, man. That skin is crazy.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Did Pharrell produce every song?

[Malice]

Hold on. Your skin too. So.

[Pusha T]

Yeah. All right.

[Malice]

For sure. For sure. All right, all right, all right.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

So he produced every song?

[Malice]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Pusha T]

Wow. Yeah. That's what's up.

[Malice]

I know.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I feel like he took, like, a more. When he. When he produces for y', all, it's more like a minimalist approach.

[Malice]

I think it's a direct approach.

[Pusha T]

Yeah, yeah. I think it's. It's. I think it has a lot to do with our vocals being instruments and treating it. Treating the vocal like a real instrument, like, you know, versus, like, over producing so much. There's so much that's this centered around the word, you know what I'm saying? When it comes to us that you have to let that breathe. And I think he takes that. That direction.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

How does that change your. Or. How did that challenge your pin or delivery?

[Pusha T]

Oh, everything is about the raps anyway. It's always been about the raps, but I don't got production bone in my body, so I. I ain't never gonna be able to lean on it, but so much, you know, I think. I think that. I think there's a standard that just comes with the writing. He just knows that it sounds best minimal with us cutting through. Yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

So when a beat changes on a record, like, with the record that Nas does, do you ever say that's why it was him?

[Pusha T]

That's why he was on it.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Got you.

[Pusha T]

He act.

[Malice]

He.

[Pusha T]

He asked for two eights, bro. It was like, yo, I got this change. Give us two eights. When we heard the beat was like, oh, that's for Nas. I mean, and just, you know, just knowing, like, you just know that. That. No, that. That is that he was in a queen's bag of whatever that was. Whatever was inspiring him at the time. I was like, man, I was. That was for homie.

[Host 1]

I know DJ Clue's involved too, right?

[Pusha T]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Host 1]

Talk about his involvement in the project again, man.

[Pusha T]

Clue was. He wasn't. What happened was, you know, just again, making the records, going through the records. We actually stole Clues drops from, like, just off of old mixtapes because we just felt that it fit. And, you know, when he heard it, he was like, nah, I gotta redo these. They don't belong there. And he belong here. Book the studio. Book the studio. And he had to. He reconfigured everything he did and did it live. But it was just some of those records kind of sparked that nostalgia. And, you know, when. When we're in the moment. You know, whether it's a Pharrell, you know, if you hear Pharrell singing a hook or, you know, we wanted the hook that he's not going to stay on. We gotta kind of finish it just to see what it feels like. So we stole the drops and once Clue heard it, he, you know, did it properly. Yeah.

[DJ Envy]

Now talk about the cousins festival you got going on in Virginia.

[Pusha T]

Oh, man. Cousins festival. Cousins Festival is August 30th. It is the best time. It's Labor Day weekend, and it's an indoor and outdoor festival. You know, outdoor, you have a cousin's festival stage. It's like all the DJs. You got backyard band, you got, man. Food trucks. Yeah, food trucks. It's Clue, It's Clue, it's Envy, it's DJ Booth, Jess.

[Malice]

Y' all got Jess.

[Pusha T]

Yeah, we need Jess there. And then on the inside, we have. As the day goes on, we have. Inside we have a show. And that's gonna be Jeezy T. Pain, Lil Kim. And it's like, it is the best one day festival time of Labor Day weekend in Virginia.

[DJ Envy]

Why don't you perform at the festival, though? Cause this is the second annual, right?

[Pusha T]

Yeah, this is the second one.

[DJ Envy]

So why don't you perform at your festival?

[Pusha T]

Well, actually, we have a show already booked, so we ruined it. You booked the show at the show of his festival? No, not the day of. Not the day of. But, you know, it just. It just didn't make sense. And, you know, this is. This is really about. We take real polls, like, yo, who. Who y' all want to see? You know, we just.

[DJ Envy]

Last year, they did.

[Malice]

Yeah.

[Pusha T]

Last year was Erykah Badu, Larry, June, lion, Babe hosted DJs, Jermaine, you know, and this year, you know, this year we stepped it up a notch.

[Host 1]

The show you got already booked. Is that the tour y' all going on, Worth Gang?

[Pusha T]

Yes.

[Host 1]

Sorry about that.

[DJ Envy]

Yeah, she leaked that first. You see that?

[Pusha T]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I know, I know.

[Host 1]

I mean, I didn't say it.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

No.

[Pusha T]

Kevin was mad. It's all good, man. It's all good. I mean, you know, I'm glad. I'm glad that we're going out there with Earth Gang. Those guys are awesome. And I feel like the shows are going to be incredible. Like, what is it? 25 dates. 25 dates.

[DJ Envy]

You know, Earth Gang went to him. They went to Hampton for a little bit. You know that, right?

[Pusha T]

I didn't know that. Oh, wow. Crazy.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I just got a Couple more questions, man. Malice, how is your journey as a pastor, your spiritual journey?

[Malice]

Why does everybody call me a pastor? No, I'm not. I could. I could be.

[Pusha T]

Yeah.

[Malice]

I'm not a pastor.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Well, your spiritual journey, how's that helping you navigate this current climate of hip hop? But also this current journey to clips.

[Malice]

From it helps me with my journey through life, with everything. I feel like I actually don't know how you can do it without God, anything. Let all things be done decently and in order. And no matter what you're doing, you need to have the word of God with you, even if it's only to help you in understanding things around you that you can't change, you know, to have peace and peace with yourself. So it's everything to me. God is everything to me first and foremost. And that's not cliche. Like, I need Jesus. Like, I need water and food. It's a fact. Yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

What's the song on the new album? You think people are going to completely misinterpret?

[Malice]

I don't know. I don't care. You know what I'm saying? I don't. I don't know. It could be the whole album. I don't know.

[DJ Envy]

Yeah, let's get into the joint. Off the album. What y' all want to hear? Not the two joints I've been playing.

[Pusha T]

Fico.

[Malice]

Yeah, let's get into that.

[DJ Envy]

You got to send that to me, please, sir. Clean.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

He ain't sending nothing till Friday.

[Malice]

Or.

[Pusha T]

Or. Or. Do Birds on Sing.

[DJ Envy]

I like Birds Don't Sing.

[Pusha T]

Yeah, yeah. Do Birds don't Sing.

[DJ Envy]

Let's do Birds Don't Sing.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

For sure. That's powerful.

[DJ Envy]

Well, I appreciate you brothers, for joining us, man.

[Pusha T]

Thanks for having us.

[Malice]

Thank you. Thank you very much.

[Pusha T]

Appreciate it.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Pressure on y'. All. Are we gonna have to wait another 15 years or, you know.

[Pusha T]

Nah, nah, nah. I don't think so.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Okay.

[Malice]

Yeah.

[DJ Envy]

Malice didn't say it.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I don't know. I don't know.

[Host 1]

Y' all are just so happy. I love seeing y' all together.

[Pusha T]

I know.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That's why when I said the safe space thing, like, I can really see that. I can see how this is like a divine protection when y' all together having an individual, but when y' all together, you can.

[Malice]

I'm with that. I'm with that. I feel that. I see that. Yeah.

[Pusha T]

And this is just a childhood question. How many people still think y' all twins? Everybody.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Okay. All right.

[Malice]

Cause now I don't feel that dumb, Yo.

[Pusha T]

Growing up, I was like, they are twins. I will argue people down because they was right from down the street. I'm from Baltimore, you know, they right there. But I got family in Virginia, and I was even telling the Virginians, yo, they're twins. Like, no, they not. So my bad. Okay. But people do say that it wasn't only me. Everybody. Exactly.

[DJ Envy]

Well, let's get into the record. One last thing. Is there ever a problem? You say, like, I'm not going there with Pusha. Like, if Pusha's going to a spot, a strip club to host it or he's going to strip club, like, that's. I'm not doing that.

[Malice]

Yo, everybody keeps putting you in a strip club. For some reason, every interview, they're putting him in the. In the.

[Pusha T]

In the strip club. I usually don't.

[Malice]

I mean, book, but yeah, man, work is work. Work is work.

[Pusha T]

It's clips.

[Malice]

It's the Breakfast Club.

[DJ Envy]

Good morning.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Wake that ass up early in the morning.

[DJ Envy]

The Breakfast Club.

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[Charlamagne Tha God]

I'm Kalpen.

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[Pusha T]

This is Julian Edelman from Dudes on.

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[Pusha T]

Sunday mornings I've got my game day.

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[Pusha T]

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