Black Tech Green Money: Nicky Saunders, Content Strategist at Deeper Than The Brand

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Breakfast Club Featuring Nicky Saunders on Black Tech Green Money

Episode Details:

• Title: Black Tech Green Money: Nicky Saunders, Content Strategist at Deeper Than The Brand
• Host/Author: iHeartPodcasts (with Charlamagne Tha God and DJ Envy)
• Release Date: January 27, 2025

Introduction In this episode of The Breakfast Club, Charlamagne Tha God engages in an insightful conversation with Nicky Saunders, a renowned content strategist and founder of Deeper Than The Brand. Saunders shares her expertise on navigating the complexities of social media, building authentic online communities, and transforming followers into loyal customers. The discussion delves into the evolving landscape of digital content, the importance of authenticity, and effective strategies for content creators and entrepreneurs.

Social Media Engagement and Content Performance Charlamagne opens the dialogue by addressing the frustration many content creators face when their posts underperform:

Charlamagne Tha God [03:44]: "What goes wrong when I believe I have a post that's fire and I post it and it goes flat and nothing happens. Nobody likes it. Like what, what's. What happens? Nikki, help me out."

Nicky responds by outlining potential factors affecting post engagement:

Nicky Saunders [03:44]: "It could be a few things like timing, the right hook, the algorithm... I always look at, when I post and it goes flat, I look at me first. Visually, how does it look? What was the first three seconds? Did I keep their attention?"

She emphasizes the multifaceted nature of content performance, highlighting that both creator introspection and platform algorithms play crucial roles.

Enhancing Instagram Engagement The conversation shifts to Instagram strategies, where Charlamagne questions the effectiveness of traditional photo posts:

Charlamagne Tha God [05:01]: "Are our pictures on Instagram dead?"

Nicky offers actionable tips to revitalize Instagram content:

Nicky Saunders [05:01]: "Put extra love into your posts—add music, turn images into carousels, use rich captions. For example, instead of a single sentence, elaborate to engage your audience more deeply."

She underscores the importance of utilizing Instagram's evolving features to maintain and enhance content reach.

The Shift from Highlight Reels to Authentic Storytelling Charlamagne introduces a pivotal topic on the prevalence of highlight reels in entrepreneurial content:

Charlamagne Tha God [07:35]: "How do we solve for the problem where entrepreneurs only post the highlight reel and not the struggle?"

Nicky advocates for transparency and vulnerability:

Nicky Saunders [08:30]: "Gen Z and Alpha are showcasing both the highs and lows. It builds community and relatability. People want to feel connected and understand that they're not alone in their struggles."

She highlights that sharing both successes and challenges fosters a more authentic and engaged audience.

Developing Day-in-the-Life Content Outside Major Cities Charlamagne poses a question about creating engaging day-in-the-life content from less glamorous locations:

Charlamagne Tha God [11:07]: "How do you develop that day in the life content when your life doesn't feel like that?"

Nicky encourages authenticity and creative documentation:

Nicky Saunders [11:40]: "Document what you do. Even if it seems mundane, others find value in it. Share routines, small activities, and personal experiences to connect with your audience."

She emphasizes that relatability often trumps exotic settings, making everyday moments resonate with viewers.

Building Trust and Expertise Through Storytelling The discussion transitions to the importance of storytelling in establishing brand authority:

Nicky Saunders [15:05]: "Storytelling is the key part of any brand. Turn a problem into a relatable story. It's not about the space you have but the story you tell."

Nicky explains that brands like Nike and Apple succeed because they excel at narrating compelling stories that go beyond their products, creating emotional connections with their audience.

YouTube Growth Strategies and Thumbnail Optimization Charlamagne inquires about Nicky's rapid growth on YouTube:

Charlamagne Tha God [43:30]: "You made a goal of hitting 10,000 subscribers on YouTube by the end of September and you did it much earlier. Congratulations. What did you learn about that experience?"

Nicky attributes her success to strategic thumbnail and title optimization:

Nicky Saunders [43:56]: "Thumbnails and titles are crucial. I focused on A/B testing different thumbnails to see which ones garnered more clicks. Even if I personally liked a thumbnail, I prioritized what the audience responded to."

She advises investing in professional graphic design for thumbnails to enhance visual appeal and attract more clicks, reinforcing that first impressions significantly impact viewership.

Consistency vs. Production Quality in Content Creation Charlamagne questions the current relevance of production quality:

Charlamagne Tha God [38:10]: "Does production quality matter anymore?"

Nicky balances the importance of consistency with production quality:

Nicky Saunders [38:13]: "Consistency is paramount. Quality matters when you're aiming to be taken seriously, but overproduced content can alienate your community. Balance is key."

She cites Keith Lee as an example of maintaining authenticity while gradually increasing production quality, demonstrating that both elements can coexist to grow a brand.

Transforming Followers into Customers Charlamagne seeks advice on converting engaged followers into paying customers:

Charlamagne Tha God [40:34]: "How do we turn them into customers?"

Nicky outlines a two-pronged approach:

1. Addressing Pain Points:

   "Identify and address your audience's pain points through content that resonates with their experiences and offers solutions."

2. Leveraging User-Generated Content and Testimonials:

   "Showcase other people using your product or service creatively. User-generated content and testimonials build trust and demonstrate real-life applications."

She emphasizes the importance of creating content that not only attracts views but also fosters engagement and conversions by meeting the audience's needs and desires.

Authenticity and Vulnerability in Content Sharing Charlamagne highlights the challenge of maintaining authenticity while being vulnerable online:

Charlamagne Tha God [28:35]: "There's real vulnerability with being authentic. How do people get over that and share themselves publicly?"

Nicky advises setting personal boundaries while embracing selective vulnerability:

Nicky Saunders [29:16]: "Set boundaries that protect your personal life while allowing authentic moments to surface. Share selectively based on your comfort and the value it brings to your audience."

She points out that controlled vulnerability can strengthen connections without compromising personal privacy, enabling creators to remain genuine without oversharing.

Building in Public and Community Engagement Charlamagne invites Nikki to elaborate on building in public:

Charlamagne Tha God [49:56]: "Say more about learning and growing in public."

Nicky explains the benefits of building in public:

Nicky Saunders [49:56]: "Building in public fosters transparency and accountability. It allows your community to witness your journey, providing support and feedback that can guide your growth."

She shares examples of successful public projects and the positive impact of engaging openly with the audience, reinforcing the idea that transparency builds trust and fosters a loyal community.

Conclusion Throughout the episode, Nicky Saunders provides a comprehensive roadmap for content creators and entrepreneurs aiming to enhance their digital presence. From optimizing engagement through strategic content creation to fostering authentic connections and converting followers into customers, Saunders' insights are invaluable for navigating the dynamic world of social media and digital branding.

Notable Quotes:

• Nicky Saunders [03:44]: "Visually, how does it look? What was the first three seconds? Did I keep their attention?"
• Nicky Saunders [05:01]: "Add extra love into your posts—music, carousels, rich captions."
• Nicky Saunders [08:30]: "Gen Z and Alpha are showcasing both the highs and lows. It builds community and relatability."
• Nicky Saunders [15:05]: "Storytelling is the key part of any brand."
• Nicky Saunders [38:13]: "Consistency is paramount. Balance is key."
• Nicky Saunders [43:56]: "Thumbnails and titles are crucial. I prioritized what the audience responded to."
• Nicky Saunders [49:56]: "Building in public fosters transparency and accountability."

Final Thoughts Nicky Saunders provides actionable strategies and profound insights into effective content strategy, emphasizing the significance of authenticity, consistency, and audience engagement. Her expertise offers a valuable guide for anyone looking to elevate their digital presence and build a meaningful, impactful online brand.

Transcript

[Charlamagne tha God]

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[Nikki Saunders]

We want to speak out and we want this to stop.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Wow. Very powerful.

[Nikki Saunders]

I'm Ellie Flynn, an investigative journalist and this is my journey deep into the adult entertainment industry. I really wanted to be a Playboy model. He was like, I'll take you to the top. I'll make you a star. To expose an alleged predator and the rotten industry he works in, it's honestly so much worse than I had anticipated. We're an army in comp comparison to him. From novel Listen to the Bunny trap on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Charlamagne tha God]

AfroTech Conference is back, bringing together over 20,000 tech enthusiasts, founders, investors and more for another unforgettable year. For years, Afro Tech has been the go to event for black innovators in tech, where the brightest mind share the latest developments and insights. And this year we're bringing the experience to Houston, Texas. From November 13th through the 16th, join us to learn from the innovators and leaders who are shaping the future of tech. From insightful panels to curated meetups and expansive recruiting, you'll connect with industry trailblazers. In addition to focusing on the latest in AI and data, this year's programming explores the intersections of tech with health, environment and creative design. Don't miss your chance to be part of it. Secure your spot at AFRO Tech Conference 2024 today. Visit afrotechconference.com to buy your ticket now. I'm Will Lucas and this is Black Tech Green Money. Nikki Saunders is a powerhouse in the world of content strategy and personal branding. She's the content strategist and founder of Deeper Than the Brand, where she helps entrepreneurs, speakers and creatives grow their digital footprint authentically. She's best known for her work with motivational speaker Eric Thomas, better known as ET where she helps scale his online community exponentially. She's passionate about helping others turn their social media presence into a vehicle for success using the power of storytelling, AI and impactful strategy. So what goes wrong when I believe I have a post that's fire and I post it and it goes flat and nothing happens. Nobody likes it. Like what, what's. What happens? Nikki, help me out.

[Nikki Saunders]

I mean it could be a few things like that. That's. That's such a broad question. Like it could be the timing. It could be anything from you didn't have the right hook. It could be the algorithm. There's a lot of things like is I always look at when I post and it goes flat. I look at me first. Yeah, right. I think it's easier to control what I post and what I put out and what I create. Instead of going the algorithm is doing what it does. I was like because I can't. I. I feel like that's a cop out when other people numbers are clearly are doing okay. I'm just feeling a certain kind of way because no one's listening to me at this moment. But then I have like I look at it from a standpoint of all right visually how does it look? You know what was the first three seconds? Did I, did I keep their attention? Because depending on the platforms, if you get them to listen through the whole way through like that could be a thing. So it's, it's just, it's a lot of things. It's a lot of things.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Are our pictures on Instagram dead? No, no, that.

[Nikki Saunders]

It's just, you feel me? Like you got to put an extra love in it. So you may have to put like some music, you feel me? You may have to make it into a carousel. So you may have to say extra stories. You may have to be a little bit more intentional with the captions and make it a little bit longer. What happens is what the days of. I post a picture and I say one sentence. Now that's dead. That's just. Stop it. That's. It doesn't even work. But the, the more that they add features, we have to pay attention to it. So they're allowing you to add text to it. They're allowing you to add extra pictures on top of your pictures. So you look at say the different features that are inside of Instagram and you use them. It probably better your reach for, for your post.

[Charlamagne tha God]

And so what I learned, and this is a year ago or more, what Instagram does is they count swipes through your photo gallery as engagement. And so what I. I wonder because I actually enjoy these particular types of posts where there's. It's a gallery and like none of the photos match. Like they're just, you know, maybe one is a quote, another one is me eating. The next one is, you know, something random. I actually enjoy those. So tell, like what is that about? What? Why are people doing that? I enjoy it, but where did it come from? Like what happened?

[Nikki Saunders]

So sometimes they follow a theme. Right. Sometimes they could be super just randomness, but it really gives you a sense of personality of the person who's posting it or the brand who's. Who's posting it.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Yeah.

[Nikki Saunders]

Right. And so that's not necessarily normal in the way that we normally post that. Now it's starting to be attractive. So when we're seeing, okay, I have a picture of me at the park, but then I have a funny meme on the next one and then I have a deep quote. It's like I'm fully, truly understanding who you are as a person rather than the 30 seconds, 60 second videos, 90 second videos that can be kind of like staged and scripted. So sometimes we don't necessarily get your full personality unless it's those types of posts or even lives. That's why lives still kind of have a little bit of like energy to it because we get to know who you are because you can't really lie on a live. It's just impossible, truly impossible.

[Charlamagne tha God]

So I'm going to ask A question. I'm going to go the long way around to ask this question because I think this is important context. So we talk a lot about how educational institutions don't teach financial literacy and a lot of them do now. They're increasingly teaching financial literacy. And I say that, to say this, when we, we talk about entrepreneurs and people who are trying to build businesses don't post the struggle, but they post the highlight. So you only see the highlight reel and but when you do post the struggle or people, we find it difficult to post a struggle, I'll say that. So how do we solve for that? So when we talk about the academic and they trying to fix that, how do we fix, you know, the entrepreneur who's trying to show you that he's winning or she's winning and they're finding success and therefore follow me, I'm, I'm on a road somewhere. But that struggle, like, I don't want to sound like I'm on here doing the Tyrese cry, you know what I mean?

[Nikki Saunders]

Right. But the Tyrese cry worked. Good or bad? It worked. You feel me? So, but, but I say that because I think now in the season that we're in, the day in the life is starting to get more play, then I fully got it together, right. And those people who are actually taking advantage of that is like Gen z and Gen 8, like Alpha, like they're, they're really going into day one of trying to create a billion dollar brand, right. And they show everything about it, good or bad. The, those people who can't do that. It's a self issue. It has nothing to do with the algorithms, the platforms, does the content work or not? Because society culture is, is over. The highlight reels, we want the actual things that work or that doesn't work or I want to feel like I'm not alone anymore. Right. And so those people who are showing hate, this is how I do this. I don't know if it's right. I don't know if it's like, but I'm going to do it anyways. It builds community. And so those brands are starting to get more and more traction because it's community centered, it's for the people. Whereas yes, the ones that only show the highlights are great. Cool. You could look at it more like, as these are goals, I want to get there, but I feel disconnected because you're already there and I'm not. So I could look at you kind of like, I, I look at it more of like we do the vision boards. So Yeah, I could, I could post your brand, your content on my vision board, but I don't, like, I don't truly feel connected until I am there where people who are posting about, okay, I made $10 today. Okay, I made $3,000 today. Okay, it went back to like four. Like, those are starting to get a little bit more traction. It's still not of the masses just yet, but you start, if you pay attention is, it's definitely more popular on Tick Tock at this moment, but it's starting to make waves on YouTube, on Instagram, on Facebook as well, because people are just starting to like, are just over the highlight reel.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Yeah, I like that. So I asked Marty Woodard the same question and I'm gonna ask it to you too. Like, you know, I live in Toledo, Ohio. I live in a place, it's not like la, New York or Chicago where there's always like beautiful stuff to pose. And my life is amazing. I'm walking in this place and I'm walking in that place and got the little furry dog and life is wonderful and beautiful. TikTok beautiful. But like, and most of the people who listen to this podcast are not in LA, NY, Chicago, etc, so how do you, how do you develop that day in the life content? When your life doesn't feel like that.

[Nikki Saunders]

Kind of exciting, you just document what you do. So meaning I'm an introvert. So nine out of ten times I'm in this area, I'm in front of computer screens and that's it. The crazy thing is I think my life is boring, but other people don't, right?

[Charlamagne tha God]

Your life sounds like my life. I'm sitting right here eight hours a.

[Nikki Saunders]

Day, majority of the time. Yeah, but you're doing things that people wish they could. Like you feel I'm saying. So creating a podcast, creating any type of content, people are like, yo, show me how. Right? Or how do I create it? How do I have interviews like you? How do I ask? How do you prepare? Like, we take for granted what we do every single day because we do it every day and it's super easy. But if we was to start documenting it and showing that simple, simple format, do it on stories, see how it does, right? Because we, we as humans need to build momentum. I need to know this works before I really put all my energy to it, right? And so put in stories. C. Like day in the life, okay, boom, I'm walking my dog. Okay, maybe that doesn't get that much views, but okay, I'm about to bullet journal and and write out all my tasks and how I'm feeling. And they're like, oh, you have a routine? I'm like, yeah. Like, okay. Like, okay. I went. I went to the sauna and cold plunge. You do that? I was like, yo, I talk about content and AI all the time. Y'all concerned about when I go to the sauna? Cold plunge. That's crazy.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Yeah.

[Nikki Saunders]

So it's. It's interesting to see that what we think is not important. Like, it really is important to people because there's a sense of your expertise and who you are, and so you can show one only. And then people feel disconnected. So if you show both, yo, I'm on the. I'm on the. The journey of making my company over six figures, right? But in the meantime, I got to call my mom, right? Make sure she's good. I got to go. And Instacart messed up, so I got to go to. To the joint over there and make yourself normal. This is where storytelling comes in. And storytelling is the key part of any brand. If we pay attention to anything right now, the ones that are killing it know how to tell stories. This is why Nike's been what they have, because they know how to tell stories. They're not selling shoes. They. They sell stories. Apple sell stories. And so we look at the best and be like, okay, how do I turn a problem into a story? A relatable story? And so my boring life is going to be turning into a story that can relate to somebody who lives in Oklahoma, right? Chilling in the crib, who may only have a one bedroom at the time, but can see, like, yo, it's not about the space. It's about the story that you tell.

[Charlamagne tha God]

So you caught a break working with Eric Thomas, the legendary E.T. when you started working with him. What were the. What were those numbers?

[Nikki Saunders]

Like 300k at the time?

[Charlamagne tha God]

That's Instagram, YouTube. What was that?

[Nikki Saunders]

Yeah, Instagram. Facebook was about 200 and something. YouTube. I don't. Nowhere near a million at the time, but, yeah, those. Those were what I was working with.

[Charlamagne tha God]

And when you. You don't. Did you stop working or. When. Where. Where did we go? How did Nikki grow this?

[Nikki Saunders]

I mean, we're still working with E. I love E. I'm not going nowhere. I'm one of those loyal people. Like, I have my own stuff, but I'm. He's. He's family. I'm always going. Gonna make sure that he's good.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Where are we at now?

[Nikki Saunders]

That's why we're still rocking.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Where we at now.

[Nikki Saunders]

Over 2 million, 2.2 on Instagram, about to hit 1.5 on YouTube and we at 1.9 Facebook be acting crazy. We're literally at 2 million with, with Facebook, but like 1.9 mil right now.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Yeah, this is what's so interesting to me because, you know, he obviously, he's dynamic. Obviously. Yeah, but there's a lot of dynamic people. Like, what happened? How did that happen to triple, quadruple these numbers? The new year is here and you want to stay locked in on whatever you're into. Amazon prime is a cheat code. See, a lot of people think Amazon prime is just about getting those packages delivered faster than you can say, I forgot to order that. But really, prime is not just one thing. It's all things. A place to stream movies and shows. With Prime Video, Amazon Music and that free one day, same day delivery is everything you need to make the season stress free. Picture this, you're watching Thursday Night Football in Prime video and the friends are coming through. You need the last minute snacks and drinks. Prime's got you. You want to kick back and chill after the game. Prime Video's got the movies and shows to keep your night rolling. And if you want to wind down, Amazon Music's got the playlist to keep the vibe just right. So whether you're hosting, chilling, or just trying to make it through the hustle of the week, I know I'm doing all things above. Just know Prime's got your back. It helps you explore, discover, and get more of what you love all in one place. So visit Amazon.comprime to get more of whatever you're into. Whatever you're into, it's on Prime. Visit Amazon.com prime now. Jon Stewart is back in the host chair at the Daily show, which means he's also back in our ears on the Daily Show Ears Edition podcast. The Daily Show Podcast has everything you.

[Nikki Saunders]

Need to stay on top of today's.

[Charlamagne tha God]

News and pop culture. You get hilarious satirical takes on entertainment, politics, sports and more from John and the team of correspondents and contributors. The podcast also has content you can't get anywhere else, like extended interviews and a roundup of the weekly headlines. Listen to the Daily Show Ears edition on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Sup, y'all? This is Questlove and I'm here to tell you about a new podcast I've been working on with the story pirates and John Glickman called Historical Records.

[Nikki Saunders]

It's a family friendly podcast.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Yeah, you heard that right. A podcast for all ages. One you can listen to and enjoy with your kids. Starting on September 27th, I'm going to toss it over to the host of Historical Records Nemeni to tell you all about it. Make sure you check it out.

[Nikki Saunders]

Hey y'all, Nimini here. I'm the host of a brand new history podcast for kids and families called Historical Records. Historical Records brings history to life through.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Hip hop, Smash, slam. Another one gone. Bash Bam. Another one gone. The cracker, the bat. And another one gone. The tip of the cap Cause another one gone.

[Nikki Saunders]

Each episode is about a different inspiring figure from history. Like this one about Claudette Colvin, a 15 year old girl in Alabama who refused to give up her seat on the city bus nine whole months before Rosa Parks did the same thing. Check it. And it began with me. Did you know? Did you know I wouldn't give up my seat? Nine months before Rosa, you was Claudette Goldman. Get the kids in your life excited about history by tuning in to Historical Records. Because in order to make history, you have to make some noise. Listen to Historical records on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Charlamagne tha God]

2025 is bound to be a fascinating year. It's going to be filled with money challenges and opportunities. I'm Joel. Oh, and I am Matt. And we're the hosts of how to Money. We want to be with you every step of the way in your financial journey this year, offering the information and insights you need to thrive financially. Yeah, whether you find yourself up to your eyeballs in student loan debt or you've got a sky high credit card balance because you went a little overboard with the holiday spending, or maybe you're looking to optimize your retirement accounts so you can retire early. Well, how to Money will help you to change your relationship with money so you can stress less and grow your net worth. That's right. How to Money comes out three times a week, Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays. For money advice without the judgment and jargon, listen to how to Money on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Nikki Saunders]

So I concentrated more on what people wanted than necessarily what the algorithm wanted or even what he wanted. So if people are looking for bars from him, I'm going, I'm going to do that. The, the, the easiest way that we made from like where he was to the first million was I figured out the best quotes, the best bars that everybody was loving, and I posted those things. So anytime that he had A speech. Anytime he had an event, I would post exactly what the audience want, read the comments and go, okay, somebody's feeling this way. Let's find a message based off how they're feeling, right? And really went through the feedback based off the people, what the people wanted. Because if you cater to what your audience wants, they're going to share it. I'm not, I'm not here to fight that. I'm not going to be like, no, we're only going to be posting about whatever we're selling, whatever we're doing. No, these platforms are for brand awareness. So I'm going to always do different clips based off what people said. If there is a sports event that just happened, then you're going to see some images of that with ease voice on it. That makes it more relevant. So figuring out the trends, if, whether there's a, a sports event, whether there's something political, whatever, whatever people are talking about that can be related to what he's saying, put it together. So between that and trends, it, it grows. But I concentrated more on the content, the body of that instead of just the tips and tricks of the platforms.

[Charlamagne tha God]

So were you anti or for repurposing the same content across different platforms or does your Instagram content need to be developed for Instagram?

[Nikki Saunders]

In the beginning it was a little bit separate, right? Because if we think about maybe just a couple of years ago, there was different languages. But because of the rise of short form videos, it's almost the same, right? Because you got reels on Instagram and Facebook, you got TikToks, you got YouTube shorts. YouTube shorts just made an announcement saying that they could go up to three minute videos starting in somewhere in October, right? So it's going to be the same. It's about how can you tell the story, right? So in the beginning, yes, one was only taking long form videos, the other one was only taking text and pictures, the other one was only taking 30 second videos. So in the beginning, understanding the platforms, you have to do a different strategy. Now it's starting to be repurposing it in a strategic way, right? But even that, like how do you address each audience of the platform? So for example, if I was saying the announcement of the YouTube shorts, making it up to three minutes, I would do a green screen on TikTok saying, hey, YouTube shorts are about to be three minutes. You could take your TikToks that are over a minute and put it on YouTube shorts. If I was saying it on, on Instagram, a, your, your videos that you do on Instagram reels. You could put it on YouTube. Now I'm catering to each of the audiences, so we would change the captions, we would change the formats at certain points of whatever the energy was going to be on that platform. But for the most part, it was just like strategic repurposing. Like his whole. His whole content is repurposed content. There's. There's weekly new stuff, but majority of it that you see where in any major brands, it's all repurposed content.

[Charlamagne tha God]

You know, timing matters so much in social media. And I wonder, like, so, like, when I got, you know, involved with Afro Tech, I went to my first Afro Tech conference back in 2017, and I was like the only person back then vlogging every day. I was walking around the whole conference like this, vlogging all day long, editing that night in the. In my hotel room, publishing that night Friday, like. Like, who is this guy? And I did that every day at that conference. So that's. That's how I got on the radar of a lot of the executives. And so I. So my question is this, like, how timing matters. Like now you go to Afro Tech, everybody's doing that. When I was, When I did in 2017, it was like one of maybe two people. And so if I want to jump off the Bridge on YouTube. So there was a day where people would just say, you know, I'm do 30 days straight of YouTube content. I remember, like, Shameless Maya did this some years ago. It might have even been a year, but I think she for sure did it every day for a month and she blew up. Does that still work today? So if I say, you know, I want to pop on YouTube, I'm going to go hard. I'm going to do 30 days. I'm in. And hopefully by the end of that 30 days, I'm up. I got my YouTube plaque coming. It's up.

[Nikki Saunders]

So I wouldn't say you probably get a YouTube flag guarantee, right? But I will say it does. It does work for a few reasons. One, most people who do that weren't consistent on it anyways. So now you're building consistency. A platform respects consistency. And once they start seeing you post more and more, they're like, hold on, let me, let me push you out because you're here every single day now. Hello. I kind of like you now. Before, I wasn't taking you serious, but now I kind of like you. So let me post it too. As a. As a creator, you get better, right? You. Your day one to your day 25 is going to be completely different. So you're going to now start having data of what works and what doesn't. And you're going hopefully, hopefully you're going to change up some of your content based off, okay, this got seven views. This one got 5,000 views. Hold on, what did I do? Let's do this over. Right? So between the platform taking you serious and then you figuring out exactly what you're your audience and the platform wants on top of that, you're building a community because people love journeys. I, they're either a trying to champion you, be trying to see if you gonna finish or not, but they gonna watch you, they gonna watch you regardless. And so you're like, yo, this is day 17 and I feel like quitting. Right? But I'ma post it. It's only probably going to be 2 minute long vlog today. But hey, we hear people are going to watch. Okay, yo, is he going, is he going to make it to the 30? Oh, we're 18. We're 19. Oh, okay, cool. And then also you're giving inspiration for other people to be like, oh, they did that. I could do this too. Right? And so the community, if, if anything, if you don't get your plaque, you get a community that the second that these 30 days finish, you could probably drop some merch, you could probably do a paid community, you could probably do an event and they're going to be like, I'm invested, like I want to be a part of whatever else you're doing. So there's a lot of benefits of doing that if you are open to the totality of doing things on a, like a challenge based spot.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Yeah, Yeah, I like, I like that a lot. You know, I was reading an interview you did some time ago and you said that your goal was to help people feel comfortable telling their stories in a way that feels true to them. There's a lot of vulnerability that comes with being truly authentic online. We talked about, you know, if I'm failing right now. There's this meme, you know, you talk about the day in the life of an entrepreneur like, I'm killing it. It's killing me. You know, I'm doing it like I'm done. Like, you know what I mean? And so like, there's real vulnerability with being authentic. How do people get over that and share themselves publicly in a, in when. I got to go look these people in the face now.

[Nikki Saunders]

Yeah, it's setting boundaries, right? It. You don't have to. Social media is not A reality TV show. If you don't want it to be right, you can do like for me, you're probably not going to see much of my mom, much of my grandma. Doesn't mean I don't love them. It's just a boundary that I have. You may not always see 247 of my relationship is a boundary that I have. But you may hear in certain seasons that I, I suffered through depression, right? I'm not going to say that every single day. But there's certain seasons, especially if I know it's kind of heavy in the creator burnout kind of season that I may talk about that right? There are certain. I, I kind of do a list of what I'm able to talk about and what I'm is a non negotiable in this season. And then what I may say, depending on how I feel, how the audience needs it and it may stretch me, but I'm, I'll be open to it to talk about it. Right? And that changes with every single season. Like some people are like, my kids are like non negotiable. I'm not putting out my kids at all. And then they become 15 years old and they became champion of something and they want to just show them to just say, hey, I love my baby. Right? Like, I don't really show, show him, but I love my baby. Right? Yeah, it's gonna change. But you as a creator, you as a business owner, turn creator to got to go. Okay. Yes. The main part is the brand awareness. The main part is the expertise, experiences, all that great stuff. But I'm open to this now. Say it here and there or I'll show it here and there because you're going to receive energy of man. I didn't know that about you. That's so amazing. Yo, I rock with you even more. Like, remember, and sometimes it won't be in the comments. It will be like when you meet a person, yo, I loved when you said this. You're like, you watch that. You didn't comment, you didn't like, I didn't even know you followed. Like, what are you talking about? Nah, that really hit home to me. Boom, boom, boom. Like you don't know the impact that you truly have. And as long as you feel comfortable showing it, talking about it, do it. But if you don't feel comfortable at all, do not stress yourself out because that's just not authentic to you and so you're going to be inconsistent with it.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Peace to the planet Charlemagne, the God here. And I just want you to know if you're not on Amazon prime, you're seriously missing out. It's not just about the fast free delivery, although, let's be real, that's a game changer. It especially was for me. This holiday season. Prime is like your personal guide to everything you're into or want to get into. Whether it's binge watching the latest hit on prime video, you know, listening to your favorite playlist on Amazon Music, or getting those last minute gifts which same day free delivery. Prime's got you covered. And here's the kicker. Prime isn't just about getting you closer to your passions. It's about helping you discover new ones too. Got a hobby you're obsessed with? Prime fuels it. Trying something new. Prime helps you dive deep into whatever's next. It's like me being passionate about mental health. You can order all kinds of books on mental health on Prime. My favorite is the Unapologetic Guide to Black mental health by Dr. Rita Walker. Prime gets you closer to what really matters, making all times of the year that much more special. Whether it's screaming your favorite movie or getting that perfect gift delivered the same day, prime makes everything easy and stress free. Whatever you're into, it's on Prime. Visit Amazon.com prime now Jon Stewart is back in the host chair at the Daily show, which means he's also back in our ears on the Daily Show Ears Edition Podcast. The Daily Show Podcast has everything you.

[Nikki Saunders]

Need to stay on top of today's.

[Charlamagne tha God]

News and pop culture. You get hilarious satirical takes on entertainment, politics, sports and more from John and the team of correspondents and contributors. The podcast also has content you can't get anywhere else, like exclusive extended interviews and a roundup of the weekly headlines. Listen to the Daily Show Ears edition on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Sup, y'all? This is Questlove and I'm here to tell you about a new podcast I've been working on with the story Pirates and John Glickman called Historical Records.

[Nikki Saunders]

It's a family friendly podcast.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Yeah, you heard that right. A podcast for all ages. One you can listen to and enjoy with your kids. Starting on September 27th, I'm going to toss it over to the host of Historical Records Nimini to tell you all about it. Make sure you check it out.

[Nikki Saunders]

Hey y'all, Nimini here. I'm the host of a brand new history podcast for kids and families called Historical Records. Historical Records brings history to life through.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Hip hop, Smash Slam, Another one Gone. Bash. Bam. Another one gone. A cracker the bat. And another one gone. A tip for the cap cause another one gone.

[Nikki Saunders]

Each episode is about a different inspiring figure from history. Like this one about Claudette Colvin, a 15 year old girl in Alabama who refused to give up her seat on the city bus nine whole months before Rosa Parks did the same thing. Check it. And it began with me.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Did you know?

[Nikki Saunders]

Did you know I wouldn't give up my seat nine months before? Get the kids in your life excited about history by tuning in to historical records. Because in order to make history, you have to make some noise. Listen to historical records on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Charlamagne tha God]

2025 is bound to be a fascinating year. It's gonna be filled with money challenges and opportunities. I'm Joel. Oh, and I am Matt. And we're the hosts of how to Money. We want to be with you every step of the way in your financial journey this year, offering the information and insights you need to thrive financially. Yeah. Whether you find yourself up to your eyeballs in student loan debt or you've got a sky high credit card balance because you went a little overboard with the holiday spending, or maybe you're looking to optimize your retirement accounts so you can retire early. Well, how to Money will help you to change your relationship with money so you can stress less and grow your net worth. That's right. How to Money comes out three times a week, Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays. For money advice without the judgment and jargon, listen to how to Money on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What is some general and specific things when you go to an entrepreneur, you go to their page on TikTok, they Instagram, you. Like, you should stop doing that. Like, that's why that's killing your success. It's limiting your opportunities. Stop doing that. What. What do we do?

[Nikki Saunders]

There's. There's a few things and it's a, it's a preference. Right. My thing is, I'm never going to tell you not to do something unless data shares that you shouldn't. Right. Because I may not be your audience. Regardless if I'm auditing it, I'm looking at it as a friend. Whatever. I may not be your audience, but if your data shows that this is low numbers, every single solitary time, fam, you may have to like, I, I know we don't want to quit and, but this one, you may have to, like, put on the bench For a little bit like focus on what does numbers, right? And so it's just, it's a true sit down every single month. A, I've put out between 30 to 10 pieces of content today, depending how consistent you are. Right. This month I put out that amount. Which ones were the highest, which one were the lowest? What are my average numbers? Right? My lowest pieces of content. I really need to sit down and be like, is it time to, to cut that out or do we go one more month? If we're in two months and we're not doing no numbers, chill out, let it go. Maybe try it in another season. I'm not saying let the idea go, but let's try it a different season or let's try to create it in a different way in a different environment, a different kind of content formats. Maybe that, that doesn't need to be a video, maybe that needs to be an article, maybe that needs to be a long thread. Right. Maybe that needs to be pictures. But it goes, data should run the way you move certain things. When it comes to should I create this type of content or not.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Does production quality matter anymore?

[Nikki Saunders]

No, no, no. We've seen too many videos go viral. That was on a bad Android. Sorry, Andrew, I love you, but it, it doesn't really matter. It goes like, like I have these three stages of, of content creation. There's consistency, quality, and connection. Yeah, right. So consistency means the most. And, and though many people are just so bored of hearing of that, you're bored, but you haven't done it. So I don't, I don't know what I'm going to continue to tell you. Right? So consistency is like, and that doesn't mean every single day, just the time frame that you committed to. So if you're saying, yo, I'm gonna show up Monday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, and all you have is your phone, okay, do that. Right? Because your audience is going to care more about the presence than the quality. Now the quality does matter when you're trying to be taken a little bit more serious, right? So, but I will still grab my phone and do a green screen because I connect with the people more. You don't want to be too, too high, highly produced because then you lose connection with the community. You seem too big time, right? And you don't want to just do lower quality all the time because then it's like, ah, you haven't really grown, right? If we look at Keith Lee, Keith Lee will forever do the, the, the phone videos, but he's taken a little Bit serious because other content that he's, he's collabed with has the highly produced content. Right. He's doing series, he's doing shows, he's doing commercials and all these different things. So there's still a level of high production. But still let me keep to the core of how I grew my audience to over millions of followers. Right. So Keith Lee is a perfect example of how production isn't necessarily needed. It's great for balance, but it's not needed to really have the brand that you want.

[Charlamagne tha God]

How do we turn people? Let's say I've got 10, 20, 30,000 followers. They seem to be relatively engaged. How do we turn them into customers?

[Nikki Saunders]

So do we know what they really, what their pain points are? Right, so this is where we stop concentrating on what creates the views and we have to concentrate on what creates the engagement and the conversions. Right. So I'm going to be, if I, if I have a product, clearly I have a solution to their problem. So I'm going to start talking about their pain points in some way, shape or form. Pain points can go from motivation, education, entertainment like is not just an educational vibe. Right. But if you are drowsy and I have an energy drink, right. I'm going to put up different scenarios for my night owls that is going to be like you're in front of the computer dying, but you still have to finish this one project. You may pop out the energy drink and they're like, yo, what's that? All right, what flavors do you need at 3:00 in the morning? Oh, right now you're, you're creating conversation in a real life scenario. So what are their pain points and how, and what is the content that you're creating to show that one, this is them and two, what is the solution? When they see the solution, this is where they go, I may need that. But are you making them aware that they even have a problem? Right, so that example that I showed, that's going to connect with night owls and they're like, yo, I know I felt this way at 1:00, 2:00 in the morning. And I still needed just this one little pet. And it could be an energy drink that only gives me that extra hour of boost. I don't need seven hours, I just need that one extra hour of boost. Boom, I'm go get that one. Right?

[Charlamagne tha God]

Yeah.

[Nikki Saunders]

So you show different scenarios of where your audience is going. It can be, that's what turns into, into dollars. That's what showing other people user Generated content is another great, great way. Other people using your product, other people using your services. Because we don't necessarily always want to be the first ones to buy. We want to always be like, oh, okay, all these people are doing this.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Yeah.

[Nikki Saunders]

Okay, hold on. This may, this may be the thing I need to do. Hold on, let me show. So user generated content, showing just content of other people using it is going to be fire. Testimonials is fire. But finding it in a creative way. Stop. I don't know who needs to hear this. Stop. Posting flyers sucks. No one engages with it. Horrible, right? Leave that for emails. Emails are fine.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Boom.

[Nikki Saunders]

Instagram, Facebook, tick tock, LinkedIn, not so much. Leave it alone. It's old. So yeah, those are, those are different ways.

[Charlamagne tha God]

You made a goal of hitting 10,000 subscribers on YouTube by the end of September and you did it much earlier. Congratulations.

[Nikki Saunders]

Thank you.

[Charlamagne tha God]

What did you learn about that experience? Like, because the YouTube algorithm seems to be the most challenging for many creators. What did you learn about humbling? How did you make your habit?

[Nikki Saunders]

Very humble. So there was a few things that made it not as stressful, right. A combination of a weekly post with a weekly live. Reason why is because one, one of them is going to get out more to the masses, which is your weekly post, right. As long as you're consistent, once, once a week, you should be good. Right? And then the live is going to talk more on the trending topics. But as well as build that community centered brand, right. As well as keep up your watch hours. Everybody knows especially if you're going into the monetizing side of YouTube, you need those 4000 watch hours to monetize. Now you do 5 minute videos, 20 minute videos once a week. It's going to be a little bit slow, right? So the, the lives help bring awareness and watch hours to your, to your videos. Plus it gives you more content to then chop up for shorts or another post on, on YouTube. Right? But I think the biggest, the biggest thing that I concentrated on this 10k journey was the thumbnails and the titles. I promise you every YouTuber understands the pain about that because if they don't click, it means nothing. I don't care how great your content is if they do not click. And the only way they're going to click is if your thumbnail catches attention and your title gives them that decision that this is for me. Right? So it was testing out different colors. It was testing out. Okay, I'm only going to have two things on my thumbnails. And not 17 different things. I'm going to have sometimes words, sometimes I'm not going to have words. As. And the biggest thing that helped with that was the A B testing that YouTube enabled on everybody's account. Right. So when you have. When you have a video, always have two to three thumbnails for that one video. Why? Because even though we may like a thumbnail, it's us liking it. We don't know what the mass is like. So YouTube allows you to test out up to three thumbnails and it goes every single day like, okay, does the people like this one? Does the people like this one? And it'll show you the percentage of what worked and what doesn't. And it goes based off, you know, watch time. Yeah, Right. So even though I like this thumbnail, this one got me 3, 000 more views. I'm going with that one. I don't care if I like it or not. I'm going with that one. Right. I wish they did the same thing with titles, but the. Once you understand that formula with. With titles and thumbnails and really being intentional with testing those things out instead, instead of just, okay, I'm gonna make the best videos ever. Great. That is important on the second stage because now you have to improve on your average view duration and your retention. That's important. But that thumbnail and title to grab their attention when they open up YouTube.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Get in the door.

[Nikki Saunders]

That's super, super important. So I put a lot of concentration on my thumbnails. And I'll tell. I'll tell. I use Fiverr. This is. This is not. I have my own graphic designer who's testing it out. Some of the top YouTubers will be like, I test out a hundred thumbnails every video. I'm not there yet. I'm not there yet. I got a. I got a thumbnail person from Fiverr. He gives me about two thumbnails a video. I'm great. I'm. I'm absolutely fine now. When my. When the money comes back up, we'll make it in design, in graphic designer who just does thumbnails. We may do that right now. Let me get to about 20k, you mean. And we're good.

[Charlamagne tha God]

So you don't think like kids canva templates just. That's not what it is.

[Nikki Saunders]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Listen, the more that I can get off of my hands just so I can think of ideas and create, I'm good with. I'm not a graphic designer. Right. But I do. I Know, my audience is solopreneurs and solo creators. So I will provide the, the templates and everything like that. But I will strongly suggest, please set 10 to $20 aside.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Nikki Saunders]

And give that to Fiverr. If you are serious about growing on YouTube, please invest in that like that because your time is worth way more. And you, the more that you. I'm. I went through a big creator burnout. So anything that could help you from not getting creator burnout, I'm going to tell you, hey, get rid of the thumb. You have no business doing thumbnails. No. No business. You, you talk about teeth. There's nothing about you that is a graphic designer. Continue to talk about teeth. That's it.

[Charlamagne tha God]

That's funny. That's right. So yesterday you were online, you talking about the importance of learning and growing in public. And I love that. And say, say more about that. Just in general, talk, talk more about that.

[Nikki Saunders]

So it goes, it goes back to what we were talking about earlier about like documenting in public. Right. I'm, I'm noticing that more and more people are starting brands from scratch and being like, you know what, bump it. I'm going to do it in public. Now, some people have started with zero followers doing it right, and some people have done it with a little bit of followers or a lot of followers. A good example, like Mr. Grateful. Love him. Hello. If you don't know, he hasn't been on Instagram for a little bit. But he was the guy that said, hey, Chat GPT came out. I'm going to try to get 30k followers only listening to chat GPT. And he got way more followers and his post went viral because people are like, oh, wait, you're, you're really using this tool that we don't know is going to work or not, and you're actually using it grow. Let's do it right. For me, I'm, I'm realizing this new Chat GPT voice thing, one is hilarious. Two is just way more detailed based instead of, especially for those people who don't like to type a lot. Like, I could just have a conversation. So the, the research that I'm doing, I'm like, okay, you know what, let's do this in public. Let's figure out this new voice feature in public. Let's figure out this new hat line, whatever we're trying to do in public. Because one, it could work and it can be successful, or two, it could show what not to do. And that can still be successful because people are still going to be impacted. Either way, that's my whole thing. Like building in public creates impact. Building in public also creates supporters, good or bad. So with those benefits, why wouldn't you create in public? Because having it all together is great. Cool. I feel like it costs more money if you don't do it. I could grab my phone and be like, all right, I don't really feel like doing anything with my business today. I mean like chat GBT told me some BS that I'm not doing and somebody's like yeah, I feel that way too. I did. I took and didn't tell me all your self help routines that you did to get you better. But it creates that situation. So that's why I'm like let's do this in public because the impact is is crazy when you do Black Tech.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Green Money is a production of Blavity Afro Tech on the Black Effect podcast network and iHeartMedia. It's produced by Morgan DeBaun and me, will Lucas, with additional production Support by Kate McDonald, Sarah Ergin and Jada McGee. Special thank you to Micah Davis and Love Beach. Learn more about my guests and other tech disruptors and [e-mail] the video version of this episode will drop to Black Tech green money on YouTube. So tap in. Enjoy your Black Tech Green Money. Share this with somebody. Go get your money. Peace and love. Listen to me. This is Charlamagne Tha God talking. If you're not on prime, you're missing out. Prime's not just fast free delivery, although that is definitely a big perk. It's a collection of excellent services that help you get more out of whatever passions you're into or getting into. Like right now I am really getting into past life regression therapy and there's so many books about it on Prime. So you can order books with prime or even listen to content on Amazon Music. Whether you're binge watching the latest on prime video, listening to music on Amazon Music, or getting those last minute gifts dropped at your door with Prime, Same day free delivery with prime, customers get closer to what they care about. Whatever you're into, it's all on Prime. Visit Amazon.com prime now Jon Stewart is back in the host chair at the.

[Nikki Saunders]

Daily show, which means he's also back.

[Charlamagne tha God]

In our ears on the Daily Show Ears Edition podcast. Join late night legend Jon Stewart and the best news team for today's biggest headlines, exclusive extended interviews and more. Now this is the second term we can all get behind Listen to the Daily Show Ears edition on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Tomer Cohen, LinkedIn's chief product officer. If you're just as curious as I am about the way things are built, then tune in to my podcast, Building One. I speak with some of the best product builders out there. I've always been inspired by frustration. It came back to my own personal pain point.

[Nikki Saunders]

So we had to go out to farmers and convince them.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Following that, curiosity is a superpower. You have to be obsessed with the human condition. Listen to Building One on the iHeartRadio.

[Nikki Saunders]

App, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts. We want to speak out and we want this to stop.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Wow. Very powerful.

[Nikki Saunders]

I'm Ellie Flynn, an investigative journalist, and this is my journey deep into the adult entertainment industry. I really wanted to be a Playboy model. He was like, I'll take you to the up. I'll make you a star. To expose an alleged predator and the.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Rotten industry he works in.

[Nikki Saunders]

It's honestly so much worse than I had anticipated. We're an army in comparison to him. From Novel. Listen to the bunny trap on the iHeartRadio app. Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.