Eating While Broke: VAN LATHAN - Angola State Grilled Cheese Part 1

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Breakfast Club - Eating While Broke: VAN LATHAN - Angola State Grilled Cheese Part 1

Episode Information:

• Title: Eating While Broke: VAN LATHAN - Angola State Grilled Cheese Part 1
• Host: iHeartPodcasts, The Breakfast Club with DJ Envy and Charlamagne Tha God
• Release Date: November 30, 2024

---

Introduction

In this episode of Eating While Broke, Van Lathan shares his personal journey from college graduation to navigating the challenges of living in Los Angeles. The conversation delves deep into his struggles, career pivots, and insightful reflections on the media landscape, particularly his experiences at TMZ.

---

From Graduation to Financial Struggles

[03:48] Van Lathan:
Van narrates his transition post-college, emphasizing the uncertainty and pressure faced by recent graduates. He reflects on the disillusionment that comes when reality doesn't align with aspirations, particularly highlighting the societal expectation to join the "rat race."

Notable Quote:
"When you're at the end of a story, everybody has a moment that something happened for them. But in the middle, you don't know when it's gonna happen for you."
— Van Lathan [03:48]

---

Personal Challenges and Moving to LA

Van discusses significant personal upheavals, including his parents' divorce and the impact it had on his living situation. These experiences, compounded by Hurricane Katrina, forced him to confront his resilience and adaptability.

[06:09] Van Lathan:
"I get to see it as two people divorcing and not Mommy and Daddy divorcing."
— Van Lathan [06:16]

His move to Los Angeles in 2006 marked a turning point, where he felt more equipped to handle life's adversities, having already faced numerous challenges.

---

Career Beginnings and Unemployment Adventures

Upon arriving in LA, Van initially worked for Capricorn Programs, producing a video game show called Cybernet. However, the financial crisis led to the company's collapse, pushing him into prolonged unemployment.

[22:34] Van Lathan:
"I become one of the world's foremost pickup basketball players. Every gym in LA, you see me."
— Van Lathan [22:36]

During this period, Van's knack for seizing unexpected opportunities surfaced when he inadvertently became a part of a Gillette commercial, turning a simple survey participation into a lucrative $3,000 deal.

Notable Quote:
"I didn't make $500. I made $3,000."
— Van Lathan [26:35]

---

Breaking into TMZ and Navigating Celebrity Culture

Van's entry into TMZ was marked by his unique sense of humor and ability to stand out. His memorable joke about Larry Flynt's significance in civil rights solidified his position within the newsroom, leading to increased responsibilities and visibility.

[35:12] Van Lathan:
"Your ability to succeed at a place is not just about your talent. It's about your ability to recognize opportunity."
— Van Lathan [35:12]

Van elaborates on the relentless pace and invasive nature of celebrity journalism at TMZ, emphasizing the emotional toll it takes on those involved.

[57:06] Van Lathan:
"It's like, there's no fucking reason whatsoever why we should spend so much time talking about what happens in the lives of famous people."
— Van Lathan [57:06]

---

The Kanye West Incident: A Pivotal Moment

One of the most impactful moments at TMZ was the interaction with Kanye West during a live broadcast. Van recounts the tension and his internal struggle witnessing Kanye's controversial statements.

[45:29] Van Lathan:
"When Kanye West comes in, very polite guy, says hello to everyone. Then he turns into a demon."
— Van Lathan [45:30]

This encounter not only highlighted the volatile nature of live journalism but also prompted Van to reflect on the profound influence of celebrities on societal perceptions and personal identities.

Notable Quote:
"Any one person like that, there's no person that's, like, gonna be able to be a nigga whisperer and change what somebody thinks."
— Van Lathan [52:21]

---

Reflections on Media and Celebrity Influence

Van delves into the intricate relationship between media portrayal and public perception of celebrities. He critiques TMZ's role in humanizing celebrities by focusing on their flaws, arguing that it fosters unrealistic standards and diminishes the true essence of individuals.

[56:27] Van Lathan:
"Celebrity is not a person. That's why, I guess TMZ comes off a little bit invasive and ruthless."
— Van Lathan [57:10]

He stresses the importance of black communities being mindful of how media representations impact collective and individual identities.

---

Conclusion

Van Lathan's candid exploration of his journey from financial hardship to a prominent position at TMZ offers listeners a profound understanding of resilience, opportunity recognition, and the complexities of navigating media landscapes. His insights serve as both a personal narrative and a critique of celebrity culture's pervasive influence.

---

Notable Quotes

• Van Lathan [03:48]:
  "When you're at the end of a story, everybody has a moment that something happened for them. But in the middle, you don't know when it's gonna happen for you."

• Van Lathan [06:16]:
  "I get to see it as two people divorcing and not Mommy and Daddy divorcing."

• Van Lathan [22:36]:
  "I become one of the world's foremost pickup basketball players. Every gym in LA, you see me."

• Van Lathan [26:35]:
  "I didn't make $500. I made $3,000."

• Van Lathan [35:12]:
  "Your ability to succeed at a place is not just about your talent. It's about your ability to recognize opportunity."

• Van Lathan [57:06]:
  "It's like, there's no fucking reason whatsoever why we should spend so much time talking about what happens in the lives of famous people."

• Van Lathan [52:21]:
  "Any one person like that, there's no person that's, like, gonna be able to be a nigga whisperer and change what somebody thinks."

---

This episode offers a raw and unfiltered look into Van Lathan's life, providing valuable lessons on overcoming adversity, the significance of authenticity, and the profound impact of media on personal and communal identities.

Transcript

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[Van Lathan]

Hey, guys, welcome to another episode of Eating While Broke. We are not in LA today. We are over here at 85 South Studios with the special guest of the day. Van Lathan is in the building. You guys may know him as podcaster, Academy Award winning executive producer, you know, but I like to acknowledge you as the man that stood up to Kanye west in the TMZ office.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

Commissioner of the bbi.

[Van Lathan]

Commissioner. And we gonna leave the commissioner of the BBI off. But, Van, before we get into where you're at today, I want you to take me back to where you were when you were broke, what dish you're gonna have cooked for us to eat today. So you can start with that.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

So I get out of college around, I would say, 2003. 2003, I got out of college and there's this, like, transitional period in my life because I was always interested in people's stories. And everybody's stories seem so linear. Every story seems linear. When you're. When you're at the end of it, everybody has a moment that something happened for them. Everybody has a moment that they realize something. But when you're in the middle of it, you don't know. You don't know when it's gonna happen for you. You don't know how it's gonna happen for you. Certain people have more certainty than other people do, but all you can do is work and try. And I get into this point and it's this weird, odd point to where I'm like, nothing that I thought was going to happen or no way that I wanted to go is the way that I want it to go.

[Van Lathan]

So you're graduated. We're taken back to when you graduated college.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

Right. And so I'm working at Best Buy, and this is the same time that the college dropout has come out, around that same time. Kanye's first album, and he's talking about great album, great album. He's talking about disillusioned high school graduates who now have to realize that they're not going to conquer the world, that what they're going to do is enter into the American workforce.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, the rat race, right?

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

And they're going to be a part of something. And everything that they did, it's not just not as meaningful as they thought it was going to be. In a way, it's spiritually debilitating. And the song is. The whole album is about breaking free of that, really. It's about saying, hey, like, I dropped out, but I dropped out. I took a path that is less admired. Less admired, but in a way frowned upon. Right. In order to be more alive. Like, I'm not killing myself. And so I'm to the point to where I'm like, having an existential crisis. I'm like, yo, I'm killing myself. It's not working. And so many things happen within this two year period. My parents divorced, my mom leaves the house. And that was very transformative for me because, like, when a woman leaves a home right away, everything gets less.

[Van Lathan]

You were talking about after college, though, were you living at home with your parents?

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

Sure.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, you were during college?

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

Yeah. I went to Southern University in Baton Rouge. I had gone away to school, and then I came back and I went to Southern University because I wanted to be around all of my friends. So I was still living at home. The school was about 10 minutes away from where we lived.

[Van Lathan]

Okay, so how old were you when your parents were, like, 22.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

22 or 23.

[Van Lathan]

And so you actually got to see it.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

I got to see it. Right? I got to see it as two people divorcing and not Mommy and Daddy divorcing. And I also got to see just the.

[Van Lathan]

What do you mean they're not Mommy and Daddy divorcing?

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

It wasn't Mommy and Daddy divorcing. When you're 10 and your parents break up, you're 13, 14. Mommy and Daddy are divorcing. In my life, Crystal and Terry got a divorce because I had enough of a frame of mind, or a frame of reference, should I say, for these people to know who they kind of really were at that point. So I knew the anger that my father had. I knew the paranoia that my mother had. I knew that these were two people that were on diverging spiritual growth journey, should I say? And that they were no longer compatible. And like, what that means, like, when you're a kid, it's like, are you guys going to split up? Okay. Who am I going to live with? That's not the concern for me. The concern for me is, do these people still get to live the version of their life that they want to live now that they're no longer together?

[Van Lathan]

Okay.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

And so when I saw that, you know, my mom, I was actually happy for them that they had made the decision. I was happy for them that my mother, I thought, okay, this is a new life for her. She had felt beaten down by a lot of things emotionally. She had felt unsupported by a lot of things emotionally. And obviously with my father doing some of the things that he was doing. He must have been unhappy too. So maybe this is a new life for them. I'm young enough to think at that point that severing that type of relationship in some way could be a positive for those two people as much as they loved each other and loved each other until my father passed away. But immediately she left the house. And it was two niggas living in the house that didn't know how to do shit. Like, the house just became. It's like. It's just like I remember.

[Van Lathan]

Were you the youngest too, or something? Who are you the youngest in your family? Cause you said it was just the two of you.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

Yeah, I was the youngest in the family. I was the only one still around. My sister had gum. My dad had other kids, but they were gone. But, like, so it's just me and him living with.

[Van Lathan]

But your dad had other kids?

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

What do you mean he had other.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

Kids, nigga, you know what I mean.

[Van Lathan]

Well, don't glaze over it.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

Okay.

[Van Lathan]

Okay. So your mom was dealing with a lot.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

Yeah, yeah, that's what I'm saying. So it was. That's another reason why you're happy for her to go and have a chance at a life that is for her.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

Right. And so, you know, me and him are there, and it's like, she. She's your mom, but she's also like a genius in creating. She's a genius in keeping things running. You get taught this lesson of misogyny, and the lesson is that somebody leaves the house and they go make a whole bunch of money. Now, my mother worked, too, and made a lot of money. But somebody leaves the house and go. Makes a lot of money, and then they come back into a castle and everything that they touch inside the house turns to gold. But you don't realize that there's somebody who's keeping your life beautiful. There's someone who's. Whose attention to detail, Somebody whose ability to multitask. Somebody who looks out for things. Somebody who, when something's broke, they go, okay, you gotta go fix that. Somebody who, when something doesn't work, they go, okay, we gotta get it working. And the moment that she left, it was. The house crumbled. It fell apart. Like the turn on the stove, pop, pop. The electric pop. And I look at him and he looks at me and I'm like, right, she gets that fixed. That motherfucker popped. Till we got out of the house, we had never fixed it.

[Van Lathan]

Right.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

The washing machine broke. Never got fixed. Wow. You know what I mean? It's just like little stuff like that. Like, my mother used to come out. This was a big, beautiful home on about 60 acres that we had had. She would come out and she would spray paint, like, power wash the outside of the house and wear everything. Me and him were just too focused on the individual things that we were doing to care about. All of the place was just less beautiful because the woman of the house had gone, wow. And so during that whole time, I'm also broke. I'm also broke. I'm working at Best Buy. I'm like, I'm treading water. I don't know what I want to do. And then Hurricane Katrina comes.

[Van Lathan]

Okay, I remember that. Yeah.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

And so when Hurricane Katrina comes, this is like a weird two year period of my life. Like, everything changes. Like society crumbles. Everybody's strapped for cash because you've taken on so much more. You got relatives living with you that come down from down in the city. Everything's different. And now everyone's trying to stretch that dollar. You're eating different, you're feeling different, and it just doesn't feel like there's any abundance. It didn't feel like that in my life. And so that's when I. That was the most. That was the point, honestly, from 2003 to 2005, that was the point where I figured out myself. I. I moved to LA in 2006.

[Van Lathan]

Okay.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

By the time I got to LA, I could handle anything. I could handle anything. I had buried homeboys, I had put relatives in the ground. I. There was nothing. The world had showed me, like some really ill shit. And so when I got out there and was dealing with la, it was a piece of cake.

[Van Lathan]

So you also navigated eating while broke. So what dish are you gonna have us eat today?

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

Grilled cheese.

[Van Lathan]

Grilled cheese.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

It's a staple.

[Van Lathan]

The staple. And the most simplistic and delicious meal. Did you have to add any tomato soup or anything or. You just did it. The legendary classic.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

Fuck all that butter bread. Cheese. Shout out to my uncle David. Rest in peace. Shout out to my uncle Mark. Rest in peace. These guys taught me the beauty of the grilled cheese. And you know where they learned it at?

[Van Lathan]

Where?

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

Where you think they mama. Nah, where you think they learned the grilled cheese at these two uncles. What do you think?

[Van Lathan]

Someone screamed?

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

Somebody Say it.

[Van Lathan]

Say it.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

Jail.

[Van Lathan]

Jail.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

See, I could tell how you been. I can tell what kind of life you done been living. Look, they learned to grill cheese in jail. They were grilled cheese mechanics, okay? They came back in here.

[Van Lathan]

And they was like, how'd y'all know it was jail?

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

Cause they. Cause we.

[Van Lathan]

Cause what?

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

Yeah. Cause we know right? There was grilled cheese mechanics.

[Van Lathan]

Okay, well, let's see. Let's judge your grilled cheese.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

I haven't made it in a long time. Cause the nigga is not broke no more.

[Van Lathan]

Okay, you know what? I've been doing this show for. This will be our. This is our third season. We're taping right now. And some of the dishes are so good on this show that I go home and I'll make it broke or not.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

Broke or not, you gonna make it.

[Van Lathan]

They're good.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

Butter is a very. Is very sensual look at butter. Watch this, watch this, watch this, watch this. Oh, daddy, you hear that? Look at the butter go. Oh, my God. Butter is, like delectable, right?

[Van Lathan]

Oh, yeah. I use butter in 90% of my cooking.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

Really? What's that? What's that? What's that blood pressure like?

[Van Lathan]

I don't know, but I'm really healthy. I'm really healthy.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

Okay, like, what do you go. You get a check.

[Van Lathan]

First of all, I don't know if you could do a good grilled cheese. I'm watching the way you're making this grilled cheese.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

It's not going to be good.

[Van Lathan]

I'm concerned. I'm definitely concerned because I feel like you are going to butcher this grilled cheese.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

It's not going to be good. I can already tell you it's not going to be good. You know what I'm saying?

[Van Lathan]

I mean. Yeah, because these jailbirds, they definitely didn't teach you jail birds.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

Oh, my God.

[Van Lathan]

They didn't teach you the right way. How much. How much cheese are you gonna put on this grilled cheese?

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

I'm gonna put a lot.

[Van Lathan]

This is how you did it. Broke.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

Yeah, man.

[Van Lathan]

You put three pieces of cheese on your broke grilled cheese.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

I don't know if you know this, but, like, I'm a big ass nigga.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. Nah, bro. You're being judged. And right now this grilled cheese is looking like it's not gonna. We gonna see.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

We'll see. I mean, we'll see what happens. Can I ask you a question?

[Van Lathan]

What?

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

Is this show to judge people? Is it to get inspired?

[Van Lathan]

Well, I like, you know what? The first two. The first season and a half, I was very nice with people's feelings, okay? And then I had someone made tuna casserole.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

They made a tuna casserole in this motherfucker.

[Van Lathan]

It was terrible. Well, we tape in LA usually so we have like 85. Did this whole thing for us. Shout outs to 85. They did the whole cooktop and whole build, this whole kitchen. I'm in love with it now. I'm going to have to come to Atlanta more.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

You like Atlanta?

[Van Lathan]

But. Yeah, I like it. It's cool. I haven't seen much out here yet.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

Where do you travel to? Where do you go?

[Van Lathan]

What you mean, where do I go?

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

Where do you be at?

[Van Lathan]

I'll be. I'll be in LA.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

New York, LA, NY. Just. Okay.

[Van Lathan]

LA, NY.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

Okay.

[Van Lathan]

LA, NY. I'm from there. You know, let's focus on your story, for sure. Okay. So you graduate, you moved to la.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

And you graduate with what degree?

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

I have a political science and English degree.

[Van Lathan]

Okay. And your goal in life before you.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

Left college was to be an attorney.

[Van Lathan]

Okay. And then you got to LA to.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

Be in the movie game.

[Van Lathan]

Okay. What happened in between those times to make you change your career?

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

I spoke to a lot of attorneys.

[Van Lathan]

You found out they don't like their jobs.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

What? I found out, so my brother Jabril is one of the most brilliant people I've ever known. Super brilliant. Like, ridiculously smart. Right? Smart in a way that's almost inaccessible. And he went to Morehouse here in Atlanta, and then he went to Stanford, one of the greatest law schools in the world. And he didn't have a specific love for the law, if you ask me. But he is just incredibly successful person. And it didn't seem like to me, like that was going to be a fulfilling life. What I like to do is commiserate, talk, create. Obviously, I like to go back and forth and all of that stuff, but more than anything, I want to create things that made people think and discuss, and I don't think that that was going to be something that was possible as an attorney.

[Van Lathan]

Okay. Now a little backstory. So did all your siblings graduate college?

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

No.

[Van Lathan]

Okay. Are any of them similar to your chose, similar to your path?

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

My sister's a poet.

[Van Lathan]

Okay.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

She's one of the greatest poets in the world.

[Van Lathan]

Really?

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

I think so.

[Van Lathan]

She made money on it?

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

No.

[Van Lathan]

Okay.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

She made no money on it.

[Van Lathan]

Okay.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

But she is ridiculously talented, and I'm inspired by her every single day because she creates no matter what the circumstances.

[Van Lathan]

Okay.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

And that, to me, is more impressive than somebody who gets flown all over the world to create. She creates because she must create and not because it's incredibly lucrative for her to create.

[Van Lathan]

Okay.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

So it's in her.

[Van Lathan]

It's in her.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

And that makes me feel.

[Coca Cola Representative]

The holidays are about spending time with your loved ones and creating magical memories that will last a lifetime. So whether it's family and friends you haven't seen in a while, or those who you see all the time, share holiday magic this season with an ice cold Coca Cola. Copyright 2024 the Coca Cola Company.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

The.

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[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

Ooh wow.

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[Van Lathan]

So you get to LA. What's the next step?

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

I work for a place called Capricorn Programs for a while.

[Van Lathan]

What do you do there?

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

I produce a show called Cybernet. It's a video game show. So when I first get out to la, I am playing video games for a living and then reporting on those video games on this show Cybernet and writing for the show.

[Van Lathan]

Okay, and then.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

Then something happens.

[Van Lathan]

What happens?

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

Okay, that company goes belly up. Financial crisis. So when that company goes belly up, guess what I get to do?

[Van Lathan]

Live on unemployment.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

Hell yeah.

[Van Lathan]

I love unemployment.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

Yep. And I become one of the world's foremost pickup basketball players. Every gym in LA, you see me. 24 Hour Fitness, you see me.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, you didn't try to hustle on top of the unemployment?

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

I definitely did. But the most thing that I did was just play ball and vibe and write. I wrote so much. I wrote so much. So much stuff.

[Van Lathan]

But how long were you on unemployment? A year? Six months?

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

Two?

[Van Lathan]

You can be on unemployment two years.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

You have to Remember that at this time, it was the financial crisis, so they were extending benefits to meet people's needs.

[Van Lathan]

What year is this? 2007. 2008.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

2000.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. It had to be in 2008, and.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

Then it's like going into 2010, basically.

[Van Lathan]

Okay.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

And let me tell you what happens. This is a true story. So I'm on unemployment. I'm doing my thing. I'm walking into the gym. LA Fitness Hollywood. Everybody there knows me, okay? I'm walking into the gym. I'm walking into the gym. And as I'm walking into the gym, a lady outside the gym says, hey, you want to take place in this survey? You want to take part in this survey? I'm like, yeah, sure, no problem. She's like, take part in this survey. And we like what you say. We'll give you $500.

[Van Lathan]

Oh.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

And I was like, hell, yeah.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

Okay. So I do the whole thing. I do my whole little shtick. I'm on a little small camera that she has, and she goes, we like you. We want you to come out to this place and do even more stuff, right? And take place in this gigantic bigger survey where it's not a big deal. We're gonna have you tried all these products? And when you try all these products, we're just gonna ask you what you think about them. I'm like, cool, no problem. All right. So I decide to go to this thing. Oh, we cheesing it up right now.

[Van Lathan]

It actually looks really good.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

Yeah.

[Van Lathan]

I'm thoroughly impressed.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

And so I go to this thing. It's in Van Nuys. You know where Van Nuys is? Yes. So I go in there, and I'm into the little deal or whatever, and a guy goes, okay, this is what you're gonna do. I want you to go in here, take a shower, and use this shampoo. Because they're doing product testing. Take a shower, use this shampoo, right? When you get out of there, brush your teeth. Use this toothbrush and this toothpaste. Cool. He's like, don't do this. Don't do that stuff. We took those products off the list. And then when you come in here, we want you to shave with this razor. And I'm like, well, I'm not shaving my beard. He goes, yeah, well, you can just shave at the top and on the. And right here. Just tell us what you think about it. I'm like, cool, no problem. So after that, cool. I do all this stuff. I get into this little room, and inside this room is two other Guys in the room, they got towels on. And I'm looking around, I'm like, yo, what's going on here? What is this? I try to weigh myself on a scale. Scale doesn't work. I'm looking in the room. The room looks like a gym, except I know that we're not in a gym. Like, what's going on? So I start using the. The razor, doing like this. And when I start using the razor, somebody jumps out with a camera and they say, hey, are you ready for the Gillette Fusion Pro Glide challenge? It's a commercial.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, my gosh.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

And I'm like, oh. And so I'm using the thing. I'm doing the whole thing. I'm going back and forth. The guy, I'm having fun. After the thing is over, I walk in there and everybody's clapping like, hey, why? How are you doing? You guys did a great job. You're in a commercial. Boom, boom, boom. So I don't make $500. I make $3,000.

[Van Lathan]

Get the freak out. I would have been so hyped because.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

It'S a we're done, baby oh special.

[Van Lathan]

That's a really good looking grilled cheese. Oh, my God, look at that. The cheese is bubbling, guys.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

Yeah, it's bubbling over and there's a little butter there.

[Van Lathan]

Shout out to my uncle. I just learned a trick in making grilled cheese.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

What is it?

[Van Lathan]

To stack a lot of cheese in the middle.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

It needs a cheese.

[Van Lathan]

Crazy.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

Cheese is actually a pretty staple ingredient to the grilled cheese.

[Van Lathan]

I know, but I usually just put like one or two. Yours is like, first of all, you did it really impressive.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

I tell you. I tell you. I tell you why, though. That's why you're healthy, though. You said you were healthy before.

[Van Lathan]

Look at the, like, the even colored color. I don't know if it did a really impressive grilled cheese. Okay.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

Yes. You just low and slow. Okay, so look, so I'm there and they go like, okay, so it's Saturday. So with the 500 bucks that you were promise, you get that it's Saturday. So you get double the session fee on that plus like whatever. You get like a holding fee and all of that stuff. So I end up making like $3,000 for this commercial. Let me tell you what kind of American I am. I come home and I'm doing my unemployment and it asks if you made any money.

[Van Lathan]

Please don't say you reported it.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

Yep. Why I put the money on there?

[Van Lathan]

Why?

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

I don't know. I've seen niggas get the death penalty for less. So. So I put. So I put the money on there, right? I put the money on there and this what happens. They then readjust my unemployment quarterly.

[Van Lathan]

You need friends like me. Yeah, I would have for sure told you not to do that.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

So quarterly. So it goes from being. I go from getting $500 a week in unemployment to $75 a week in unemployment. So I go, okay, this is the deal. It's not. Obviously they don't think a could live off this. So I'm just going to go up to the unemployment office, I'm going to talk to these people. This is what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna go up to the unemployment office, I'm gonna talk to these people, I'm gonna straighten this whole thing out. So I go up there to the unemployment office in Pasadena. I'll never forget the lady was like, baby, ain't nothing we can do. It's in the computer. I was like, I can't live on this, blah blah, blah. It's in the computer. So I needed a job. I had to have a job.

[Van Lathan]

Did you call the Gillette people back then?

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

I didn't. But you know what the funny thing was? The Gillette, that commercial ended up making me. That commercial ran.

[Van Lathan]

Oh shit.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

I didn't know anything about. I didn't know anything about being a commercial actor. So I would get a holding check every now and again. And then I started making money off the commercial. But that's later. I didn't know this. I came home and when I came home, I was like, I have to find a job. I pulled up entertainmentcareers.net the first job was TMZ tour guide.

[Van Lathan]

You were a tour guide?

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

Yep.

[Van Lathan]

No way.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

It was being a tour guide. TMZ was starting a tour and the tour was like, you go around to different places and you show people different things that happened. Like on tmz, like we would show you where Josh Hartnett got diarrhea. We would show you where Michael Richards fucked up at the Laugh Factory. It's actually a pretty good tour. I'm actually. I was one of the first guides on the tour. I was the first guide on the tour. So I actually a little bit of pride in the fact that we were able to jump that off and make it a thing. Cause it's still going right now.

[Van Lathan]

It's still going? Yeah.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

Right. So I get in there and I do that. I apply.

[Van Lathan]

That's a brilliant concept now that I think about it.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

Okay, go on, Revolutionize the whole Tour game. So I apply, and they're doing the tours like American Idol. They have all of these tour guides in there, and then every week they cut a guide. So I'm in there and I like. They have me coming in there and whatever. I get the whole thing. I start with the TMZ tour. This goes through to about everything I'm talking about. I start with the TMZ tour. I think April of 2010, maybe it might be 2011. Whatever it is, I start with the TMZ tour. Then by July, I started in March. By July, I'm on TV every day.

[Van Lathan]

Within a couple months.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

Yep. Harvey came and took the tour. I was up there doing my thing, and I told a joke, and he liked the joke so much that he brought me in and put me into the.

[Van Lathan]

Into the newsroom.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

Into the newsroom. Yep.

[Van Lathan]

Okay. So then you get this newsroom opportunity. Your pay goes up, benefits. What are we looking at?

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

So this is the way it was working. I was making money because I was getting tips on the tour, okay? So I was probably making $1,500 a week straight cash off the tips on the tour.

[Van Lathan]

Shoot.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

I was killing these white people, okay? I was killing them. I was. I was killing them. And then you would. You would come in and you would have, like, people from those tourists, like, they were from Australia, they were from Canada. There was a thing that we do on a tour to where if you see a celebrity on a tour, you stop the bus, you get off, you shoot the celebrity, okay? And when you're driving around in LA at certain times, if you know where to go, it's impossible not to see famous people. Like, if you were coming to LA and you. And you were hanging out with me, and I was like, hey, you want to sit around and watch celebrities all day? There are three or four places I could tell you where it's going to happen, okay? And so we would see them, and I'm a good spotter. I would spot celebrities and we would see them and the people would go crazy. We all kinds of people. Fucking Lady Gaga, Leonardo DiCaprio, David Beckham, and just the other niggas that be around. Just that. Be around.

[Van Lathan]

You're hilarious.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

You would just. You know, the people I'm talking about in la, they just. They. They be around. You see them all the time. Like, hey, weren't you in. Yeah, like, you see them. The funniest thing was BET Awards weekend, right? Because there would be all kinds of celebrities that I would recognize that the bus wouldn't know who they were. And so the bus wouldn't believe me that these people were famous. I'm like, yo, I don't know if you know this. I had two number ones. We never heard of him before. I don't know. He signed to Ludacris and them. He's. That's like. Actually, I don't want to say the guy's name, but, like, that's actually. That guy is a huge singer. Like, you guys should probably care about him.

[Van Lathan]

We don't know.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

Fuck him. Keep going. No, but I mean, so anyway, so, you know, I'm making good money because I'm making my tips off the tour. I'm doing three different jobs for tmz. I'm also on a camera with my. On the street with my camera.

[Van Lathan]

Okay.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

I'm on the street with my camera. I'm doing the tour.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, you're doing the tour and the.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

Newsroom and all this on the tour and the newsroom. They gave me as many jobs as they could, and I delivered.

[Van Lathan]

Did you join as they were like a startup or were they, like, startup level?

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

So they were. So this was 2000. So they started in, like, 2005.

[Van Lathan]

Okay.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

I got there five years later.

[Van Lathan]

Okay. That's considered still startup, probably.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

So they were. They were. The newsroom cast was established, though, so I had to break in.

[Van Lathan]

Okay.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

I always give Harvey credit for this. He the same joke. Because it's very hard to break into that room. Because when you're in the room and you're. Everybody's fighting for air time, the camera's always on Harvey. But as far as you. You gotta say something. You gotta do something to stand out.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

So you get. You start to maximize the moments that you have. And if you're on, that means somebody else isn't. So once it's 10 motherfuckers in there, they're not looking for the 11th motherfucker to come in.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

But Harvey knew that I had that joke that I could tell on the.

[Van Lathan]

I want to hear the joke.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

It kind of doesn't work without us being on the tour. But so we. So we passed by the Hustler store on the tour.

[Van Lathan]

Okay.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

And so it would stop on the Hustler tour. And this was a different time to tell this joke. Okay. So we would stop, and I would have the bus stop right by the Hustle Store. And you know who Larry Flynn is, right? Larry Flynt started Hustler. And I would be like, this guy's Hustler Store. Larry Flint started Hustler. And I don't know if you guys know this, but Larry Flynt is one of the most important men in the history of civil rights. And they're like, what are you talking about? And I was like, well, you guys might not know this, but Larry Flynn is in a wheelchair. He was shot. One of the reasons why Larry Flynn was shot was because there were people that were upset that he was doing interracial photo spreads in Hustler.

[Van Lathan]

Oh, I didn't know that.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

It's very true. And the bus would go, oh, I didn't know that. And I would go, like, yeah. So Larry Flynt is very important civil rights leader because he took a bullet so that I could fuck white women.

[Van Lathan]

That's a really good.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

That's good, right? And so I remember Harvey was. Oh, my. And so I go. And so. They don't want to laugh. They don't want to laugh.

[Van Lathan]

That's funny.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

But I'm in the room, and I say that, everybody. And it's so far out of left field. And they've never heard the sound of my voice before. I remember shout out to Nina Parker, who worked at TMZ with me, who's still a dear friend of mine to this day. Beautiful black woman. Nina was looking at me like, I know they didn't just bring one of these niggas into the new newsroom when these goddamn Tiger woods is. But that joke put me over in the newsroom, okay? And so. And he knew that it would.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

And so after that, boom, they all left. Another thing I tell the kids. I don't want to be hyper verbose about the whole TMZ situation, but another thing I tell the kids is your. Your ability to succeed at a place is not just about your talent. It's about your ability to recognize opportunity.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

So the very first year I was there, I realized that everybody goes home for Christmas. So everybody takes off for Christmas. So if you watched the show, it's always a buzzing newsroom. Everybody is around. Everybody's doing all of this, but it's bare bones in there. Like any point after Thanksgiving until the new year. Cause everybody's rotating in and off vacation, but they're still doing a show. They still have to do a show. They don't go dark for two weeks like everybody else. It's a daily show. I did not go home. I stuck around. And when I stuck around, I got all of the time to talk and be on camera that I wanted to. So in that month, I endear myself to the audience.

[Van Lathan]

Nice.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

Right after that he comes in, he goes, we're gonna give you a raise. We gonna do all of this next time. Contract went up and I just, my stature at TMZ just went up to the point to where I think maybe a year, two years after that, um, I was a producer.

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[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

The.

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[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

Oh wow.

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[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

Yeah. Kanye West.

[Van Lathan]

The Kanye West.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

Yeah. You like him?

[Van Lathan]

I love Kanye. I love old Kanye.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

Nah, you like him now. I can tell.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. You know what? It's so funny. So my favorite rapper is Jay Z and my little brother's favorite rapper is Kanye. But now Eagle acknowledges that Jay Z is the ultimate goat. So we have a great, great relationship. But Kanye. Let me try this grilled cheese.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

Go for it. Bless you. That's straight from Angola State Penitentiary right there.

[Van Lathan]

Okay, let's see. But Kanye, Old Kanye was simply amazing to me. I loved how outspoken he was. I don't know what happened in the Kardashian era, like what kind of drugs they put him on or what went wrong, because he was always pro from the Bush Statement. Like, he was always that guy. So take us to that day. What's going on? Like, from beginning to end.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

So Harvey had gone to that butter gonna burn. So Harvey had gone to. I don't know, the week before then Kanye had an album going out, and this is after the Trump stuff, and he had, you know, gone off at his. At his show and all of that stuff. Harvey had gone out to Calabasas, and he was so giddy. He called me up to his office and he goes, look at this. It's me hanging out with Kanye West. So I'm like, whatever.

[Van Lathan]

You were like, whatever.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

Yeah. I'm like, at this point, I don't give a fuck about that.

[Van Lathan]

Okay?

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

I hate that type of shit.

[Van Lathan]

Okay.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

Though I tell you what I hate. Don't talk to me about who you was hanging out with ever.

[Van Lathan]

Okay?

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

Like, if you go to a party, when you come back and talk to me about the party, talk to me about how the vibes were. Were the drinks good? Was the music good?

[Van Lathan]

So if Jay Z was in the room, you want to hear about the drink?

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

I don't give a.

[Van Lathan]

You want to be like, tell me.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

I don't give a fuck if Jay Z came to your party. I couldn't give a fuck. What do that.

[Van Lathan]

Let me tell you.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

It's always a good party, my friend.

[Van Lathan]

That's the only thing you'd be hearing for a whole.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

It's a good party because he was there. Shout out to him like, it's a good party because he was there. I don't give. Thank you. I don't care at all. Like, hey, man, the drinks was good, man. The DJ was crazy. He played that old school juvenile, all of that. Now I'm gonna come to the party if you start.

[Van Lathan]

Are you tripping?

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

I don't.

[Van Lathan]

Jay show up to my party.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

If Jay show up to your party, it's a. I guess it's a big deal for your party. I'm not saying that. I'm saying that it doesn't make me want to attend your party because there are famous people, of course.

[Van Lathan]

But I'm saying that. Okay, so Harvey comes to you. He's like, yo, I was kicking it with Kanye. That would be me. That would be me. I'll show up to look at these people.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

This is all I heard.

[Van Lathan]

Hey, hey, hey, hey.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

Kanye, Kanye, Kanye. Okay? And so he shows me the thing, and him and Kanye have some kind of rapport that they working on or whatever. I don't know what's going on. And so a Week after that, he like, I'm in the newsroom. And by the way, at this point, I've been very outspoken on Kanye because this is Kanye posing with Donald Trump. This is post, all of that stuff. So he comes up to me after the morning meeting. He goes, hey. I was like, what? And he goes, we didn't want to tell you, but in about 10 minutes, Kanye west is about to show up here. I was like, inside of tmz. And he was like, yeah. He was like, all right, just let you know all the mics are going to be down. Because the way it works is for TMZ Live, which is the live show that comes in the middle of the day, you have a red button at your desk and a thing at your desk. Anytime you have that red button, you can talk. So after Harvey and Charles do their thing, you hit that red button, you can talk. So when I want to jump in and say something funny, I jump in and say something funny. When I want to jump in, when it's time for them to come to me, like, van, van, van, talk. You can talk. But they had all the mics down because they just wanted this to be Harvey, Charles, and Kanye West. Okay, cool. So I go sit at my shout out to Charlamagne, because I go sit down at my desk, and I start watching the interview that Charlamagne did with Kanye that dropped that very same day.

[Van Lathan]

Okay.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

When he was walking around Calabasas. So I started watching that. I'm at the desk. Kanye west comes in, very polite guy, says hello to everyone. Everything like that. They go over to TMZ Live. They start doing TMZ Live. As soon as the cameras come on, he turns into a demon, right? Like, when I tell you when I'm like, it just. I come alive in the nighttime type. You know what I'm saying? Like, yeah, he's talking now. I mean, I'm not saying that he was being.

[Van Lathan]

When you say demon, like the stuff he was saying.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

Yeah. I don't mean the demon. I'm not demonizing Kanye West. I mean, it's like stream of consciousness, the whole thing. I'm like, oh, but I'm still not paying any attention. I'm not paying any attention. I'm looking at the interview. I'm not a part of this conversation.

[Van Lathan]

So you're looking at the interview but watching. Kind of looking up or what kind of.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

Not really, though. But remember, I've been told specifically that I'm not part of this conversation, so it's on them. Kanye says, a slavery 400. Oh, by the way, Candace Owens is with him. Oh, yeah, she came to the office with him.

[Van Lathan]

I don't know how you're not. Look. Not watching the interview and still looking at the Char interview.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

While there. I'm looking at the Charlamagne interview. They walking around Calabasas like, you know, they. They. Kanye got his hair. You know, they having all of these deep ass thoughts I'm looking at. But I can, I can hear him though, because he starts to scream. He doesn't just want to talk to Harvey and Charles. He wants to talk to all of us, right? So I can. I could hear him. I was like, God damn this nigga. Damn. I think I own one. And so, like, I'm still looking at it. And he says, Slavery, 400 years. 400 years. That seems like a choice to me. And everybody's like, oh, where was audible gas?

[Van Lathan]

Well, how did Candace's face look when he said that?

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

Couldn't see her. I don't know. I think she was in the other room. Cause there's a side room.

[Van Lathan]

How did those two cross paths? Damn.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

A couple of weeks before that, or maybe like a month before that, Candace had gone viral for shutting down some students that had come to a Turning Point USA meeting where she had said, ah, you're a victim and I don't like you, and fuck civil rights, whatever. And. And whatever she said to them. And Kanye was like, this is the type of thinking that I like. And then he put it. Kanye put Candace Owens on. Yeah, like she, like she, she. By the way, this is if anyone to make a judgment call about Candace Owens, go to whoever you go to forever you want to go to, whatever. But he put her on, basically. So she was with him for a little while. I think he got a lot of his. His. His early political. When he was first in that new sort of. Right. Sphere of thought. I think a lot of. He got a lot of that stuff from her. I think he probably still does to this day from a lot of those types of people. Anyhow. So he's talking, he says that. I didn't say anything when he said that. There's a, There's a misconception that he said that. And I was like, nah, I didn't, like, I didn't like, like, I didn't say.

[Van Lathan]

Did you do the Superman?

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

Yeah, People think it was like a big deal. I didn't say nothing. Right. I didn't say anything at all. His. His business. He asked like, he asked very simply. He said that everyone gasps. One other Person had said one other thing about something that he had said. But most of the people in the room just sidebar real quick. You guys have no idea. I guess you actually probably do. Cause Atlanta has per capita more famous people than anywhere else. You can't go to a fucking mall without goddamn, nigga. Wasn't you in atl? But like. But just fame just paralyzes people, particularly in la. Like, fame just like. Just like, oh, my God. It doesn't matter what he would have said up there. He's saying stuff and people are like, jesus Christ. This is the most famous person that's ever been inside this office before.

[Van Lathan]

But I'm surprised because at tmz, they cross past it a lot.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

Not nobody like that.

[Van Lathan]

Okay?

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

Like, it's like, especially to be in the office doing that. It's one thing to have to see people out on the street and get a. But, you know, there's a specific TMZ celebrity that we talk to all the time. You know, nobody like that.

[Van Lathan]

So take us back to that moment before you. Superman.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

So he says that, and he turns around and he goes. He says the whole thing, and he goes, does it feel like I'm speaking freely? He says that, he turns around, he goes, does it feel like I'm speaking freely? Okay, now let me tell you a split second just how my mind works. Like, for me, I just have, like, my insecurity is that I just can't be the N. A you can fuck over. I don't have to be the number one guy. But, like, I'll fight you until you realize you can't fuck over me. I'll play you in basketball till I realize I can't be the easy guy to get over on.

[Van Lathan]

Okay?

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

So if you ask me something like that, and I didn't say anything, there's toxicity in me that says I gotta answer this question.

[Van Lathan]

Okay?

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

Like, I can't have allowed him that somebody might think that. It's like everybody was like, you filled up with the ancestors. No, I didn't want to feel like a weakling.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

I didn't want to miss my opportunity to tell him how I feel like he was acting. Because then it feels like I'm the one that he could just kind of get off on. So he says that, and I go, no. Yeah, I don't feel like you're thinking anything. Like, actually, you don't know. You. I mean, remember, I'm saying I'm not going to go back to the whole thing. But you look crazy right now. Like, everything that you're doing not just now, but every other time, like, you look crazy. You're not thinking, and particularly this. It's not even about that. It's about what, the regression, or. How can I put this? Not regression. It's what a guy like that represents because we empower him. So imagine, like, spending your youth, like, arming somebody with this great big cultural gun. Everything that Kanye did, we were. I was down in Louisiana when he said, George Bush doesn't care about black people. He was my guy. Like, all the things that he would say when he would speak out, like, you defend him, you advocate for him. You do it, you stand by and you just. The little cultural gun that he has, the little megaphone, it just gets bigger and bigger. The gun just gets bigger and bigger and bigger. And then one day you're staring down the barrel of it. Now the things that he's saying that you've empowered him to say are being turned right back at you.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

And so, like, it's like, hey, don't shoot me.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

Like, why, why? Why you shooting at me?

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

Like, you know what I'm saying? It's like, it's like I. I'm the same dude like you, you Kanye West, I love you.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

Like, if I'm not about to dis him, never would I say, yo, you're a genius. Everything that you've done is you deserve all the stuff that you've gotten. We love you. But let me tell you how you're making us feel. That's it. That's it. I'm not trying to go toe to toe with like, a cultural deity. You know what I'm saying? I'm not trying to act like he hasn't inspired me in the ways that he's inspired me or act like he hasn't done the things that he's done. We don't do that where I'm from. We give you your props or else we would be haters. But I just have to let him know, what you're doing right now is particularly pernicious to us because we're in a very specific place in this country.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

And when you go back and you watch it, he listened. Now, look, my thing is this. Any one person like that, there's no person that's, like, gonna be able to be a nigga whisperer and change what somebody thinks.

[Van Lathan]

Of course.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

Like, there's a day to day experience that people have that has to do with their surroundings, who they are, their input and output that's going to affect how they look at the world, and you're not asking anybody to be. To change that. But what I do think is important as black people is for us to be cognizant of how what we do affects other people. For example, I worked at TMZ for nine years. I'm not in a moral position to chastise anyone. Like, literally, like, not in a figurative way. I'm not in a moral position to chastise anyone. I understand compromises that people have to make in order to get to where they want to get. I understand that sometimes people might walk into situations and not really know what it is that they're getting into. And then on the other side, you know better, and you do better. Right. So it's not about that. It's about just alerting someone when you feel like they're doing harm.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

And then that's that. And then after that, after I've said my piece, you can choose. Either you can continue to harm me, or you can be different.

[Van Lathan]

So how did that milestone with Kanye change the trajectory of your life? Because it definitely had a huge impact.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

So it was really the beginning of my career. And the reason why it was was because, number one, I was never going to be able to leave TMZ with the reputation that they have there. And this is not shots at TMZ or anything like that. Once you leave a place that has such a distinct perch and culture, it's very difficult for people to believe certain things about you. And I think going over.

[Van Lathan]

What do you mean? Like, what kind of culture?

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

Like, are you familiar with tmz?

[Van Lathan]

I am familiar with them. I'm just saying describe it. I'm saying from the journalist perspective. You're saying, like, okay, that's what I'll say.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

So, look, there's a reason why, like, a TMZ exists. And honestly, the reason why a TMZ exists is the need for people to feel good about themselves.

[Van Lathan]

The reader or the watcher to feel good about themselves.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

I'll tell you why. So the celebrity in America is overloved, way over, loved over, important over everything. It just doesn't matter that much that somebody is famous or rich. Yeah, it just really doesn't matter that much. Honestly, it's probably a net negative.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

However, it's so, so precious to people that there's a need to feel that that person has done or is doing something wrong.

[Van Lathan]

Mm.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

Right.

[Van Lathan]

Like, to more humanize them.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

Right. So, like, the question becomes this. It's like, take Kim Kardashian, right? Everybody saw her Fuck, right? Everybody saw her. Fuck. She sex tape out. Everybody saw her, right? Everybody watched the sex tape that comes out. And people get to make the decision about whether or not they would have that happen for them, whether or not they would go through that in order to be Kim Kardashian. And it makes them feel good to say no. So it makes them feel good to say, you know what? I wouldn't want that life. It's too crazy. It makes them good to feel. To say. To make them feel good to say, I wouldn't compromise myself in that way. It makes them feel good to say, I would never do this. I would never be around these people. I would never do that. I would never do this. It makes them feel good to say, hollywood's too weird. I wouldn't do that. Right. And TMZ feels that bloodlust that people have and lets them disconnect from the idea that these people are better than them. It makes. It lets them disconnect because every time somebody gets a DUI and it goes up in the thing, every time somebody gets a divorce, everybody in here knows people have been divorced.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

There's no magic or sinister story to a divorce. Sometimes it don't work out. It just doesn't work out. Yeah, but you want to believe certain people will never be happy because their lifestyles are antithetical to happiness in a relationship. So you want to. You want to believe.

[Van Lathan]

You use a lot of big words. Antithetical, like, like you.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

You. Like you. You. You. You want to believe that, right? You want to believe that TMZ gives you that. In order to do that, TMZ has to treat those people like they're not people. They have to treat them as if they're concepts. Celebrity is not a person.

[Van Lathan]

That's why, I guess TMZ comes off a little bit invasive and ruthless, right?

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

Well, no, because they're.

[Van Lathan]

They're not treating. They're. They're treating them kind of like.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

Well, you have to. Right. Like even. Even the TMZ tour was a celebrity safari. Like, what's on a safari?

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, animals.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

Yeah, animals. Right. And so. And so, like when. When you, like the tours. Celebrity safari is animals, Right?

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

And so you do that. Right. And what you. What you say is, okay, well, in order to be a celebrity, the game is PR and its base. Right?

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

So this is what you sign up for.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, kinda.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

Right. Because, like, there are certain things that you don't sign up for.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

I'll never talk. I'll never forget this. There was the sister of a celebrity that had. Had something done to them. I'll never forget. I'm not gonna talk about who I had the conversation with. I'm like, yo, we shouldn't do that. And they did the story, and this dude went on fucking and let us fucking have it. And I was like, yo, we had to take it down and apologize and do all that stuff. I'm like, yo, like, there's a limit to this. That's not me making a moral judgment on tmz. I'm just telling you the way things go.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

So, like, when you know all of that, when you have an idea of what drives that, like, obviously there are moral. There are things that you have to not care about to work there. But most of the people there are good people.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

They're just desensitized to whatever was going on there, because that's what they work.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

Like. Like that. Like, that's what they do. I'm. I'm there. I'm. It's the same thing. Things are coming in. At a certain point, you go, God damn. You know, and it's. There'll be little small things. This is a football player that had this video come out of some altercation it was in, and it said, savage beating by this. And I was just looking at the headline. I'm like, that's. I don't think we should say, go. Savage beating there.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah, Yeah.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

I think savage is like a. That's like a. Interesting way, or there's just little small things. The mayor of D.C. died. Marion Barry. Crack. Mayor Marion Barry dies. Like, he died. And, like, by the way, the people in D.C. are gonna freak the fuck out, because I don't know if you guys know, but Marion Barry was with Martin Luther King Jr. Like, where I'm from, like, I deal with a group of people, a community, people that are always categorized by the worst moment that they have. And I don't feel comfortable with categorizing a man that means so much to his city by the worst, most scandalous thing he ever had. You can't talk about his life without talking about that. But maybe in the headline, you don't do that.

[Van Lathan]

Yeah.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

So all of those things start to happen. And so for me, what the place represents is not even so much a bunch of. Not even so much a bunch of immoral people that are running around trying to get the dirt on celebrities. It represents our relationship to celebrity and our relationship to ourselves, because there's no fucking reason whatsoever why we should spend so much time talking about what happens in the lives of famous people. Famous people.

[Van Lathan]

For more eating While broke from iHeartRadio and the Black Effect, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

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[Van Lathan]

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[Coca Cola Representative]

Every day our world gets a little more connected but a little further apart but then there are moments that remind us to be more human.

[Van Lathan]

Thank you for calling Amica Insurance.

[Vanta Representative]

Hey, I was just in an accident.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

Don't worry.

[Van Lathan]

We'll get you taken care of.

[Coca Cola Representative]

At Amika, we understand that looking out for each other isn't new or groundbreaking.

[Pandora Jewelry Representative]

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