From The Chi to Real Life: Lena Waithe on Black Love, Healing & Community

Summary

Podcast Summary: "From The Chi to Real Life: Lena Waithe on Black Love, Healing & Community"

Podcast: The Breakfast Club (Black Effect Podcast Network & iHeartPodcasts)
Episode Date: May 15, 2026
Guests: Lena Waithe, hosted by Bevy Smith during a live event, covered by Lauren LaRosa

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on the influence and legacy of Lena Waithe’s groundbreaking television series, The Chi, as it enters its eighth and final season. The conversation, hosted by Bevy Smith (with Lauren LaRosa providing context and commentary), dives deep into Waithe’s storytelling journey, her focus on authentic Black representation, depictions of love and healing in the Black community, and the personal inspirations behind pivotal moments in the show.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Impact of The Chi & Authentic Storytelling

• Introducing The Chi (03:00 – 06:35): Lauren LaRosa frames The Chi as more than a drama—it’s a nuanced portrait of Chicago’s Black and brown communities, showcasing love, growth, and neighborhood bonds, rather than just the usual headlines.
• “What the Chi did over the eight seasons…was it showed us that…the news and the headlines…ain’t always what it’s hyped up to be…underneath all of that, there’s a lot of love. There’s a lot of community.” – Lauren LaRosa (05:00)

2. Rooted in Real Life: Character Inspirations & Humanity

• Humanizing “the f*ck boy” (08:25 – 10:34): Emmett’s character, often pegged as a stereotype, is nuanced with layers, struggles, and transformation inspired by people Lena knew growing up.
  • “Sex is the center of his life…He’s trying to find his identity inside the body of women.” – Lena Waithe (08:25)
• Basing Characters on Real People (10:49 – 12:44): Emmett is inspired by Lena’s childhood friend Jonathan, illustrating the complexity and empathy she brings to her characters.
  • “He ain’t no villain…he ain’t no heartless dude. This is, like, my guy…Is he evolving as a man?” – Lena Waithe (11:29)
• Grace for Every Character—Even the “Worst” (24:37): Lena refuses to demonize “flawed” people in her narratives, highlighting empathy and growth.
  • “You give them all grace, even the worst of them.” – Interviewer (24:37)

3. Breaking Stereotypes and Representing the Community

• Focus on Black Love & Brotherhood (21:06 – 22:45, 36:29 – 37:41): Growth arcs for Emmett, and scenes like the men’s circle, highlight multidimensional portrayals of Black men—accountable, emotionally honest, and in community.
  • “I just want to write a human image and let us wrap our arms around it if we can.” – Lena Waithe (22:45)
• Women with Agency, Not Victims (39:01 – 39:47): Female characters support and uplift, refusing rivalry and embodying sisterhood.
  • “I don’t believe in the victimizing yourself, but rather being a culprit in whatever your situation is…” – Lena Waithe (39:24)

4. Healing, Redemption, and the Power of Community

• Ronnie Redeems, Keisha Rescues Herself (25:21 – 27:34): Discussing a major arc where a Black girl’s disappearance (and survival) flips expectations, highlights community versus police reliance, and presents redemption for past errors.
  • “We wanted Ronnie to be the person that maybe broke open the door…but ultimately, Keisha saves herself…A woman being able to save her own life.” – Lena Waithe (26:01–26:17)
• Community Institutions: Smokey’s & Block Parties (28:00 – 29:48): The celebration of Black entrepreneurship and neighborhood landmarks as safe spaces and springboards for growth.
  • “Everybody’s starting their own business…Smokies is where everybody get their first job, a break, a meal…” – Lena Waithe (28:23)

5. Intergenerational Love and Hope

• Love at Every Age (31:19–32:28): Emphasizing Black love stories for all ages and orientations, with Jada and Darnell’s wedding as a highlight.
  • “Love can prevail at any age…I think we always want to show all kinds of love stories…We want everybody to feel seen.” – Lena Waithe (31:54)
• Full Circle: Births, Deaths & Continuity (41:33–43:39): The penultimate emotional sequence—dual births and saying goodbye—to signify generational transitions and the interconnectedness of the community.
  • “Sometimes the person you need isn’t who you think…At the ending of one life, a new life begins.” – Lena Waithe (42:23, 43:02)

6. Representation, Gentrification, and Black Women’s Stories

• Portraying Real Neighborhoods (27:34 – 30:50): Waithe discusses The Chi as a love letter to the South Side, resisting gentrification and centering Black working- and middle-class experience.
• Bringing in Legends and Showcasing Black Iconography (39:01–40:44): Inclusion of iconic actresses and unique, complex family dynamics, such as the return of Reg and the “Black Ghetto Brady Bunch.”

7. Proper Goodbyes and Legacy

• Evolving Cast and Storylines (43:41–45:09): Lena reflects on the rare privilege of Black shows receiving proper send-offs and compares The Chi's conclusion to TV milestones like The Cosby Show.
  • “This one gets to be in that lineup…TV shows that people crowd around and get ready for that final bow.” – Lena Waithe (44:18)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Humanizing "Flawed" Men:
  • “There’s a judgment that goes along with guys…It’s like, ‘How many baby mamas you got?’ It’s like, bro, like, what kind of father is he? How is he showing up? Is he evolving as a man?” – Lena Waithe (11:29)
• On Grace:
  • “You give them all grace, even the worst of them…You must. They need it the most.” – Interviewer & Lena Waithe (24:45–24:48)
• On Community Redemption:
  • “Ronnie to come to that space of him killing the character very beloved in the beginning…empathy for him. In this moment, it’s a triumphant moment.” – Lena Waithe (26:46)
• On Black Love and Visibility:
  • “We want everybody to feel seen. We want everybody to feel like they’re in the frame because they deserve to be.” – Lena Waithe (32:21)
• On Proper TV Farewells:
  • “…This one gets to be in that lineup, that line of TV shows that people crowd around and get ready for that final bow.” – Lena Waithe (44:18)

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Important Segment Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment | |-----------|---------| | 03:00–06:35 | Lauren frames the impact and focus of The Chi | | 08:25–10:34 | Lena on crafting Emmett’s introduction & complexity | | 10:49–12:44 | Real-life inspiration for Emmett; empathy for Black men | | 24:37–24:48 | Giving “grace” to every character | | 25:21–27:34 | Ronnie and Keisha story arc: survival and redemption | | 28:00–29:48 | Smokey’s BBQ and Black entrepreneurship | | 31:19–32:28 | Jada & Darnell’s wedding, love at all ages | | 36:29–37:41 | The Men’s Circle: Black men’s vulnerability | | 41:33–43:39 | Birth scenes, generational continuity, and “goodbye” | | 44:18 | Lena on the show’s legacy and proper farewell |

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Final Reflections

The Chi’s farewell is more than just the end of a show—it’s a tribute to a community, a reimagining of Blackness on TV, and a showcase for multidimensional characters and interwoven destinies. Lena Waithe speaks passionately about authenticity, redemption, and love—making it clear that her artistry is both a love letter to Chicago and a call for grace, representation, and connection within the Black community.

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For listeners seeking an inside look at the power of storytelling as healing, community-building, and cultural reclamation, this episode is a must.

Transcript

[Lauren LaRosa]

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[Lauren LaRosa]

I'm the homegirl that knows a little bit about everything and everybody.

[Lena Waithe]

You know she don't lie about that, right?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Lauren came in hot.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Hey y', all, what's up? It's Lauren LaRosa and this is another episode of the Latest with Lauren LaRosa. This is your daily dig on all things pop culture, entertainment news, and all of the conversations that shake the room. Baby, I've been bringing y' all some real good things, okay? Because you guys always tell me, whether it's we're talking on social media or I run into you in person that you guys love when we do the entertainment news breakdowns. But the top of y' all list that you guys love to hear is the exclusives, which is where we bring you the news first here at the latest with Lauren larosa, which we champion, but also the conversations that shake the room, Especially if you guys are hearing it here first. Now, I was, you know, privileged to be able to attend a premiere for the shy. The shy is a TV series that has been on now for eight seasons. Now, if you guys are not familiar with the shy, this is a show that was created by Lena Waithe, who has done some amazing things, especially for us in the television and movie space. But this show was created by Lena Waithe, and the shy. It takes its own narrative about what living in Chicago is like. And I think what the Chi did over the eight seasons that we were blessed to have the Chi on air was it showed us that sometimes what we read on the news and, you know, what we hear in the headlines and what we hear, people tend to focus on when it comes to our communities, these black, heavily black, and then brown communities. It ain't always what it's hyped up to be at all underneath all of that. And yes, it is there, and we are not going to ignore it. There's a lot of love. There's a lot of community. Anybody from an inner city can feel me. Woman in Delaware is. Look, y' all like to play with Delaware, Talk about how small we are, but it is very much that. It is very much so community. It is very much so growth. It is a stomping ground. It is a place to become who you are going to give the world. And we got to watch the cast of the shy over these last eight seasons become who they are going to give the world in this final season. So the final season, the eighth season, will premiere on May 22. And there was a premiere, conversation and party that went down here in New York City that I got a chance to attend. And we were blessed to be in live conversation with Lena Waithe. Now, this was a q and a about the shy about the final season. And just, you know, what we can come to expect as we see these things now. Michael v. Epps, who plays Jake Taylor, Jacob Lattimore who plays Emmett. Yolanda Ross, who plays Jada. That's Emmett's mom on the show. Alex R. Hibbert, who plays Kevin Burgundy Baker, who plays Keisha Williams, who is Kevin and Keisha are brother and sister on the show. You also have Iman Shumper, who was on the show for some time. Luke James, Bart, Barton Fitzpatrick, Tyler Akambri, Miriam A. Hyman Common Candy Burst was on the show. La la. Anthony made a premiere a performance. Corey Hardrict, Tabitha Brown. There have been the. The brat. There have been so many people that have blessed the shy's stage. The legendary Lynn Whitfield over these eight seasons. And Lena. Lena did that. She put this together. But let's get into the conversation where Lena Waithe is guiding us through what we can expect in this eighth season of the show and just why what she's doing in storytelling as a black person, shaping our narrative through it with black people on TV is important. And I mean, after that, you got to look out for the last season and go watch the shy. Right. Let's get into it.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

Kalina told me not to be with the bullshit in the cards, so I gotta be a little bit with the

[Lena Waithe]

bullshit in the cards. What's up? I said, hey, y'. All. Y' all look great. Welcome.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

They came out for you, my love.

[Lena Waithe]

Wow. Well, I came out for them.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Okay.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

So we came out for each other.

[Lena Waithe]

Yes, we did. Yes, we did. This is so good to see y'.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

All.

[Lena Waithe]

It's exciting. I just said, like, you don't need the cards.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

I know. We actually do because we have tools and all the back. My good job. I got do my good work.

[Lena Waithe]

I was like, we can free flow it.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

Yes, we can. We're going to do a little freestyle, but we got to keep to the situation. Situation.

[Lena Waithe]

Go for it.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

So from the beginning, this show has really been about family. Chosen family, blood family. But it's the dynamics in it have always been very complicated. But one of the things that I love, what you've always been able to do is you showed it very real. Yes. Incredibly so. To the point sometimes when you're like, how'd she know that about me? There have been so many times throughout the show that I have felt seen that I felt like, oh, my gosh, that happened to me. As a matter of fact, this clip that we're about to show actually did happen to me. The clip is Jada catches Keisha under the bed. Now, Lena, my boyfriend's mother, was not as nice as that. I certainly did not get to Stay for breakfast. Okay. But, you know, one of the things I really love about that scene is that it is very, very real. And it's happened to more people than would like to admit. But where did you get that idea from to set it up like that? Because that's really one of the first times that we really do get to meet Emmett.

[Lena Waithe]

Yeah. You know, I think what I wanted to do as a writer was do the unexpected in the scene. I. I knew that I wanted to introduce Emmett in this way to. To let you know that this is the center of his life. Sex is the center of his life. Getting that kind of validation from women. He doesn't know who he is. That's why he has to make women scream his name. Very real. He's trying to find his identity inside the body of women.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

Yeah.

[Lena Waithe]

And so his. When his mother shows up, the central woman in his life who is taking care of him, she even says, like, if you go, just be here fucking and smoking, the least you can do is pay me some rent. So she's saying, like, he's not even paying rent, but he has three children and he's living in her house and he's sleeping with another young lady. She's wondering if there going to be a fourth. There will be eventually, but it took

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

a while to get there.

[Lena Waithe]

And so the thing is, is, like, the. I want to kind of turn the audience's, like, expectations on their head. So it's like she's already upset and she's annoyed. In my mind, I said, what's the. What can I tell you about Jada in this moment? And also, how can I surprise you? You're not expecting her to say, are you hungry?

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

No. As I said, that didn't happen for me.

[Lena Waithe]

Correct. And the truth is, is that I'm sure in most cases, that's not what would happen. So I wanted to write what would be nice if that happened. If you catch a young lady in the bare room with your son, it's not best to chastise her, but to maybe see if she's hungry.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

Hungry to be seen.

[Lena Waithe]

Hungry to be seen. But also she's genuinely hungry. She said, yeah, I could eat. Yeah, I could eat, actually. And in that moment, rather than shaming someone, you make them feel like a human being.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

Yes. And that's something that I love about the humanity of all the characters, because on the face of it, Emmett is like a traditional fuck boy, but very quickly, you gave him texture and you gave him real substance beyond just that.

[Lena Waithe]

Yeah. Because he's Also based on somebody I actually know. Maybe in this room right now. Jonathan, are you here? Jonathan?

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

Raising his hand.

[Lena Waithe]

Can I tease you? I mean, I'm not speaking out of school, because these children exist. I grew up with Jonathan Richardson. We went to junior high school. Yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

Jonathan, come over here.

[Lena Waithe]

Don't stay away from the cast, please. But I'll say this with love, and we gonna keep it with no judgment. Can I say, like, you know, you know you have children that are, what, 11 days apart.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

Wow.

[Lena Waithe]

And they're not by the same woman. That's okay. At the same time, everybody relax. They are 18 now in full rise. They're 18 years old and have full ride scholarship psychologists. Because he's a great dad. But I remember, like, that folklore. It was like, yo, Jonathan's outside. But the thing was, like, I grew up with him. And so this is my bro. He ain't no villain, he ain't no monster. He ain't no heartless dude. This is like my guy. You know what I'm saying? So I think I wanted to, like, I think there's a judgment that goes along with guys like, how many baby mamas you got? It's like, bro, like, what kind of father is he? How is he showing up? Is he evolving as a man? Because the truth is, like, Jonathan shows up for me. I didn't have a father in my life, and he got killed when I was 14. So even though me and Jonathan are the same age, like, we have to help kind of raise each other. Like, he let me know his mother passed. He was talking. I didn't realize, like, he was dealing with that when we were writing the Jada storyline. How could he have known that?

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

Yeah.

[Lena Waithe]

So I want people to understand that the Shy is not just like some soapy, drama black show. It has literal blood and guts and bones and muscle inside of it. And that's what you get when you watch the show. You feel that our DNA. I love you, Jonathan.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

Love you too. Thank you for being. And you get to see the real humanity. And as you mentioned, you know, teenage kids, babies having babies, oftentimes chastised, oftentimes put to the side and written off. Right?

[Lena Waithe]

Yeah. Yeah. Looked down.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

Looked down upon. If you think the kids ain't gonna be shit because the daddy and the mom ain't shit. Gotten pregnant as teenagers.

[Lena Waithe]

Right, right.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

That's the prevailing kind of sentiment in many. In many cases.

[Lena Waithe]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

But there's always a good kid in the community. There's always one of those kids that everyone knows is Gonna not just be all right, but they're gonna be a guiding light. They're gonna be a beacon. Such a beautiful portrayal of a charact. One of the things I always enjoyed about Papa was that he really knew who he was very early on. And he was always trying to save his brothers, always as a kid. And I think, again, there's always someone like that in the neighborhood. We had a boy in my class that literally was in the same class. But they would make him do the speeches at the like or the tour assembly. Cause he was that much of a leader, much like Papa. So what was the inspiration behind his character?

[Lena Waithe]

You know, I actually grew up with a kid like Papa in the neighborhood. But his name was. His nickname was. We actually had a coogee in our neighborhood growing up. But also his name was Pimpy Pippi. But then there was these brothers I knew named Jake and Papa. And so I had something about that name. Papa just kind of stood out. Obviously, it was a nickname. And I just sort of had this vision for this kid with a lot of personality and a lot of confidence. And he's someone that we might not think would have confidence, but he is confident. And he is sort of specific and funny and silly. When we found Shaman, it was just like the perfect match.

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[Charlamagne Tha God]

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[Lena Waithe]

Mm yeah, but I'm not itching to go downtown and tell a receptionist, I'm here to talk about my downtown.

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[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

and

[Lena Waithe]

also came right out of my brain. I was like, there he is.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

And also rooted in church.

[Lena Waithe]

He's very much rooted in church. He's a preacher's kid for sure.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

And he did not shy away from that because he also knows a lot of times the PKs are the worst of the worst. Right. Because they're trying to prove that they're playing against time. Right?

[Lena Waithe]

Exactly. But I love that he was like. He's like, y' all need Jesus. Yes. He wasn't afraid of prayer. And that's what's so interesting about his storyline. Like, he really, really kind of, like, kind of steers away from the church and dates another preacher's kid who kind of veers over to that kind of preaching. Because I also grew up in a church that preached prosperity, and some people can look down on that. I think there was something wrong with it. But my church was also led by a black woman, and that's, like, so rare. And that was very. That was the norm to me, to see a black woman in the pulpit talking about deserving the keys to the kingdom. And so it's like, it's not an accident that I was a little girl

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

in that congregation hearing that kind of

[Lena Waithe]

empowerment, hearing that kind of rhetoric, and hearing it from a black woman. Please. Sitting next to my grandmother and my mother at church. We only went every now and then. Call ourselves lazy Christians, you know, but when we were there, that was the word we got that, you know, your steps are ordered and that prosperity is not a sin.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

Amen. But sometimes they go too far.

[Lena Waithe]

They do. Sometimes. Zeke was a little. You know, we was kind of talking about that kind of pastor. But, you know, you have the humble pastor and then you have the flashy one. They both exist.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

Yes, they do. Speaking of vast and wide characters, you know, you don't just have one type of woman in your show. There's so many different types of women in your show. And Emmett has dated many different types of men. Shout out to Jay.

[Lena Waithe]

Yes. Shout out to James Corn.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

Take us through there, baby.

[Lena Waithe]

Cause you.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

You had a lot to play with. And the thing that I really loved about Emmett's character is the growth. He didn't stay stuck. He didn't just stay above. And it wasn't without trials and tribulations.

[Lena Waithe]

Right? A lot of trials and tribulations.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

A lot of trials and tribulations. He fell down, but he got back up.

[Lena Waithe]

Uh huh.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

Okay.

[Lena Waithe]

Yes, he did.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

Well, this time he went down on one knee. Okay, which brings us.

[Lena Waithe]

Wait, wait, wait, wait.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

We did that.

[Lena Waithe]

Children are.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

Well, no kids. But he did that as part of his.

[Lena Waithe]

Go ahead.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

But he did that as well because you also did have a lot of racy sex scenes throughout.

[Lena Waithe]

Yes, we did. Yes, it is the shot. Why do you think. Where do you think those babies popping up at?

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

Right, Exactly. They be bucking in the shop.

[Lena Waithe]

They do, they do. Look, look, look.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

And they also be getting married and celebrating black love every now and then.

[Lena Waithe]

Every now and then.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

Sometimes they just get engaged with. When did you decide that you wanted. Did you know from the outset that you wanted him to have a transformation? That you did not want him to just be the stereotypical kind of young black man who is a stud who's going to go out there and, you know, hit everything that's. That's moving?

[Lena Waithe]

You know, I think it's too difficult to think that far ahead. They do try to ask you to do that when you're pitching shows, but you never know where a character is going to go. You really don't. And. But I think what I did want was just for him to be a human being, even if he didn't figure it out.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

Yeah.

[Lena Waithe]

It doesn't mean that his life isn't valid. It means that he kind of. Maybe he just didn't have it in him for whatever reason. But I didn't want it to say, oh, he has to become a great dad. I wanted him just to become himself,

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

whatever that looks like.

[Lena Waithe]

Whatever that looks like, and create a sort of understanding of whatever that self is. Because I think we get too caught up in the idea of a positive image. And I think I want to just write a human image and let us wrap our arms around it if we can.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

And then because of that, he did become a positive image and became a very realistically positive image. Because it's not easy to have had that many kids with various women and then come out on the other side as a pillar of the community, which is what Emmett eventually becomes.

[Lena Waithe]

Yeah, but I think what I'm trying to veer away from is this idea of who is accepted and embraced and celebrated because. Just because my father didn't know how to be there for us. But that doesn't mean that he's not like a human being worthy of my Empathy. And so I think that's what I just want to steer away from, because there can be this idealized human person, especially when it comes to us. It's like, how do we sanctify a person? How do we make them an angel enough for us to care about? You do not have to be perfect for me to wrap my arms around you. And I think sometimes in our community, we demand that, particularly of black men. I don't know how fair that is, especially with how much they have to deal with every. Women go outside every day. The tricky thing is, as black women, we have to then become the next thing they deal with when they come home.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

Yeah. But then, okay, men, y' all simmer down. Cause we go through a lot, too.

[Lena Waithe]

Yeah, but that's the thing is, like, who. Who. Who do. Who do we. Who do we have to throw our shit on?

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

Yeah.

[Lena Waithe]

Who. Who are we throwing our excess baggage on?

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

Each other.

[Lena Waithe]

Absolutely. Because where else. Where is there for it to go?

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

Right? Exactly. Exactly.

[Lena Waithe]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

Well, you. You give every single one of your characters. I think you give them all grace, even the worst of them.

[Lena Waithe]

Correct.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

Give them grace.

[Lena Waithe]

You must. They need the most.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

They need it the most. Ronnie saves Keisha. Such an important storyline, because we always see stories like this about the white girls, and they are worthy of being saved. They worry they're worthy of, you know, news reports running 24 7, the Amber Alerts, all of it. Right. They're worthy of people searching for them for months and years. But when it's little black girls, not so much. Especially little black girls who snuck out to go see a way that maybe they should not have been seen.

[Lena Waithe]

Exactly. And I want to shout out Justin Hillan, who's in the building, one of our showrunners. There you go. I see you, bro. This was his idea, you know, I said, in season three, I want to make the cops go away. How do I do that? He said, make a black girl disappear.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

That's bon.

[Lena Waithe]

That's the kind of he be saying

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

his mind works different, but it's realistic.

[Lena Waithe]

Realistic.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

It's real.

[Lena Waithe]

And we did.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

Yeah.

[Lena Waithe]

And the community found it.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

There were two people that had to be redeemed and rescued in that scene, right? Ronnie and Keisha.

[Lena Waithe]

Yes, yes. I think. And also so interesting, in watching that back, we knew we wanted Ronnie to be the person that maybe broke open the door and got through into the house. But ultimately, Keisha saves herself.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

Yes.

[Lena Waithe]

She is able to. To use her own strength. And so this isn't a damsel in distress, per se. You know, he isn't the one that takes him out.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

Yeah.

[Lena Waithe]

And I think that was very important for us to see a woman being able to save her own life. But it's nice to have the support of a man coming in and saying, okay, let me break open the door, and now I'm gonna take it out.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

Yeah.

[Lena Waithe]

It is. It is a dual effort.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

You need both. Yes.

[Lena Waithe]

And I think that's amazing, what the scene really represents. And also. Yeah. Like, for Ronnie to come to that space of him killing the character, Very beloved in the beginning, then you start to have empathy for him. And in this moment, it's a triumphant moment.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

Yeah.

[Lena Waithe]

And of course, death is just around the corner for him, because that's how it works. But he gets to be a hero.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

He gets to be a hero.

[Lena Waithe]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

And like you said, he dies shortly thereafter. But because he's. He helped save Keisha, he also helped redeem himself in the eyes of much of the community.

[Lena Waithe]

Correct. Yeah. Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

It wasn't seen as just the guy who killed Kooky.

[Lena Waithe]

Exactly.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

So he had more to. He had more of a presence in this life when this world.

[Lena Waithe]

Absolutely. That was his purpose.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

Exactly. Speaking of purpose, one of the things I've really enjoyed because I am from Harlem and, like Southside, we are constantly fighting off gentrification. And so I love the way you paint this vibrant picture of what the south side is like. And it's a love letter. And one of the biggest love letters that you did on the shot was Smokey's oak.

[Lena Waithe]

Mother always knows. Look how far we've come.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

Yes.

[Lena Waithe]

Life and love, man. It happens.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

And there was, like, at least four people in that crowd that he had slept with. So that's a lot. But the community gathering together just because a barbecue shop has transferred ownership to a young black man is something that was so important.

[Lena Waithe]

Oh, yeah. You know, I think in Chicago, we. I call it a working class city, but also it's a entrepreneurial city. Like, everybody's starting their own business, doing their own thing. And I think that really speaks to Emmett having Smokies and everybody be working at Smokies too. That's the thing. It's like everybody gonna ultimately have a job at Smokey's at some point. But that's what those kind of places are. There are places where you get your first job, place where you need a break, need a meal.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

You just get out of jail, you need a job.

[Lena Waithe]

Look, that's basically what's becoming.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

Right.

[Lena Waithe]

It's definitely. If you just got the Pen Emmett Has a job for you,

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

which is a real thing. It's a real thing in our community. We gotta get back to that, though. Yes, because we're moving away from that. We need to have safe havens for people.

[Lena Waithe]

Oh, wow.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

We need more entrepreneurs.

[Lena Waithe]

And look, also, I'm producing a play. New York Theater Workshop. The Peculiar Patriot. Don't see sleep. Get you a ticket if you can't afford one. Hit my dms. We'll see what we can do.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

There you go. Speaking of community, the block party.

[Lena Waithe]

Oh, yes.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

Let's run it. That was pure joy.

[Lena Waithe]

Come on now.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

If Chicago was smart, they used it as part of their tourism board campaign.

[Lena Waithe]

Look, I mean, tell them to call me, figure something out.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

Cuz it makes you want to go to Chicago in the summer. I'm someone who goes to the Buck Villiker parade every year, so I know

[Lena Waithe]

the Butt Villike Parade tradition. Yeah, I mean, I think that that's such a. I know the cast is probably up here having like, I don't know, crazy, like, flashbacks right now, watching these old clips. I know, it's crazy for me too. It's like somebody reading your diary back to you. No, I mean, we really kind of wanted it to feel like the city, which is the city, is a community. And I think that's the thing about. And a lot. The truth is a lot of Chicagoans, our grandparents migrated from the south, so they bring that Southern hospitality. Like my grandmother's from Arkansas. Okay. Very small town you never heard of in Arkansas. Moved to Chicago when she was 17 and she built a. A new life there. But for her, she had both. For us, we just had the city, but we had her. So her Southern energy mixed with our city swagger is really how you get a lot of people in my generation who have that city energy. But there's a Southern hospitality that we have too, which is such a huge part of who I am and my personality.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

Yeah, that's why you're always so welcoming and that's why you're always about community first and foremost.

[Lena Waithe]

Yeah. I mean, it's all I know. I think, you know, my grandmother was definitely a big host. You know, she was hosting the block club party, she was hosting the neighborhood watch party, she was hosting the poker night, she was hosting Thanksgiving. So there were always people over there. And some would be blood relatives, some would be neighbors, some would be friends, but everybody was treated like family. And I think you can feel that in my life, but also in the show.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

Yeah. And you can always feel the abundance of Love. And speaking of an abundance of love, Jada and Darnell's wedding. So if you guys don't know Lena, you should know that she is a romantic and she believes in black love, and she believes in women of a certain age having love child. When I tell you, she be so worried about me. What's going on?

[Lena Waithe]

What's the. What's the.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

So I know you wrote that J. To getting married in the house for a real purpose. You wanted to show something that love can prevail at any age.

[Lena Waithe]

Well, yes. You know, and I think love can go back around. Yes, I think. But it has to evolve. Don't be doing the on and off stuff. No, that's the goal. You're just doing the same thing. Horizontal. But yeah, I think we always want to show all kinds of love stories and age, you know, sexual orientation, all that kind of stuff. We want everybody to feel seen. We want everybody to feel like they're in the frame because they deserve to be.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

And that they have the potential for a big, monumental, loving relationship.

[Lena Waithe]

Absolutely. Sometimes you have to see a thing in order to believe that it's possible.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

Which is what Emmett needs to see. His parents.

[Lena Waithe]

Yeah, every single caught the bouquet. Relax, relax. We ain't gonna say nothing.

[Wheezy (WTF from Decisions, Decisions)]

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[Lauren LaRosa]

Okay, so quick behind the scenes moment about my business. Because people always ask me, like, how do I actually run everything? So Shopify is literally the platform where I turned this tiny idea into a business. Before this, I was really just like popping up at any in person event, any vending opportunity I could, which I still do, but I wasn't really as focused on online. I was like, you know, the websites are going to be too much to build out. I'm not like a super techie person, even though I can make things cute. And I didn't want to put up a website that would run my customers away. I wanted it to be efficient, to be easy. And Shopify helped me build brown girlgrinding.com out. Once I switched to Shopify, it finally clicked like, okay, I can actually do this. It's not about it being tough, it's about using the right platform to make it easy. Shopify takes all of the guesswork out. I build my own store, I manage my community, own my own customer relationships. Plus this is my favorite thing. Shopify gets my products everywhere. I'm able to link stuff through Google, YouTube, TikTok, Shop the Shop app, even ChatGPT and Instagram, which is very important for me. And Shopify's AI co founder, sidekick, game changer, let me tell y', all, right? So it's helped me not only optimize my site, it helps me look at my sales trends, it updates my product skills, all the stuff I'm absolutely not an expert in. But it's like having a genius business partner that never sleeps. And right now the Bronco grinding storefront and the Black Effect storefront is busy and Shopify is handling all of the heavy lifting. I love that for us. I am pumped, like so pumped that Shopify is going to show up at the Black Effect Podcast festival this year in a big way. And I will be there preaching this platform to all of the small black owned businesses and that partner with us. So if you've been sitting on an idea or if you're ready to scale, which you've already started, this is your sign. Go to shopify.com Ben if I can do it, you can do it too.

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[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

You also talk about love in other ways and as far as friendships. And we always see women, black women, loving up on each other and taking care of each other and being there for each other. But I have to say, I think the chi might be the first time we've ever seen black men committing to one another to be honest and to be vulnerable. Which brings us to the first men's circle. That scene is important. If you watch the shot and you know that most of the men seated in that circle are people that have done a lot of crime and violence against the community and each other. Right.

[Lena Waithe]

Okay, baby. It's the way you said it. I'm just saying for those that y' all know, every single man is a hot mess, basically. And they basically chat about their feelings. Well, I mean. I mean, look, they. Some of them have done some criminal stuff. Not like Joel. Joel's character, though, is kind of, like, chilling. You know, some of them are right. But ultimately it's a place for them to talk about their feelings and talk about just what's going on with them. Because I don't know if, like, men feel that they can say that stuff without feeling like a burden. And so I thought it was really cool to show the guys sitting around just having just a genuine conversation.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

Yeah. And something else that you did that was very cool is to show children, the young kids, the teenagers. We met them when they were like pre teens. They grown up and now we see them as teenagers at prom and grappling with what's next. And by the way, the way, who shot prom? Just kudos.

[Lena Waithe]

Shout out to DeAndre and Quincy, who I think are in the building somewhere.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

So beautiful and so very reminiscent of what we see. Black prom.

[Lena Waithe]

Oh, my God. Black prom is such a big deal. Please. I know. Is it big in New York too? Is. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Okay. Chicago. Go crazy.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

I love it because it's a coming of age moment. And again, something that we don't really get to see. And stories around young black kids.

[Lena Waithe]

Yeah. About Kevin. Think about moving, leaving the city. That storyline definitely kind of gave my own experience to Kevin just in terms of me wanting to leave the city and go to Los Angeles to chase a dream.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

And he went and chased. I want him back. Is he coming back this season?

[Lena Waithe]

I can't say. I can't say anything.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

Someone who did appear, and I was very happy to see her. You know, you always go and get your girls that you love. You always Bring the icons on the shine, all your projects.

[Lena Waithe]

Yes.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

So, of course, we gotta run Black Ghetto Brady Bunch with Leland Whitfield.

[Lena Waithe]

Oh, my goodness.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

He definitely ain't that same to run to begin with. I really appreciate that all the women that you have written in this show, they have agency. There's no one that's really like a victim.

[Lena Waithe]

Right. Yeah. I don't believe in it. I don't believe in the victimizing yourself, but rather being a culprit in whatever your situation is. And that's what I think was interesting about Keisha and Tiff's relationship is that they don't feel the need to be in combat with each other, and they've developed this beautiful sisterhood. It's funny. I think the Internet calls them sister wives.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

Yeah. They are definitely sister wives, but they.

[Lena Waithe]

They're so different and look at the world differently, but they're able to walk alongside each other.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

Yeah.

[Lena Waithe]

And I think that, to me, is just one of the most. It's one of my favorite things about the show is their relationship and how it's evolved, and you'll see it go through some interesting things this final season, for sure. All right. I'm not giving too much away.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

Well, in season seven, you did something that really didn't appreciate.

[Lena Waithe]

Okay.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

You brought back a villain.

[Lena Waithe]

No wonder.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

Had me on pins and needles and needles and pins. And I'm talking about Reg is back. That family dynamic is woo something. And when the mama came back, that was even more sauce on it. Talk about that relationship, because, I mean, you know, three brothers, all very different, but with a through line.

[Lena Waithe]

Yeah. You know, I think that's something that I think the audience have been asking for. For to see all three of them together. And when we did it, it just felt really complete and exciting and interesting. And that's kind of how we want to show people. You can come from the same mother but be extremely different because you have different experiences. And I think it also half siblings is a whole interesting thing. They have different dads, but they all sort of. They still are part of the same tribe, and it's just really fun to watch the three of them. Them together on screen. That's an amazing scene. Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

Great scene. Well, you already know that I could chat with you all night, but they making me rap, my love. So. So let's play our last clip, last one, which is so beautiful and really emotional. That's the one where I text you today and say I was crying.

[Lena Waithe]

Okay. She was crying. Yo.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

It was beautiful. Keisha and Tiff Give birth. Such a beautiful scene. We know how important black mothers are, not just to black families, but to the world. Okay. And. But for me, that scene was very much. It could have been called It Takes a Village, because Victor is not that baby daddy, but he was right there. And. And Jada is such a present grandma. She's on a deathbed, and she comes. She's like, I'm coming to see my grandchild.

[Lena Waithe]

Say that.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

You know what I mean? Talk a little bit about the emotion of that scene and why you made those choices.

[Lena Waithe]

Oh, man. Well, we knew it would be our pan ultimate, this emotional scene of the births at the same time. And I think you're really picking up on what we were trying to put out there, that, like, sometimes the person you need isn't who you think this is. You don't. You don't realize that's who you need in that moment. And Tip would have been really asked out if she didn't have Victor in that moment. And they needed each other. And I think that with Jada coming to see what would ultimately become her namesake is that. That is how life works.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

Full circle.

[Lena Waithe]

Yes. You know, at the ending of one life, a new life begins. And that, to us, was just so beautiful and important, and it was just this really stunning way to say farewell to a character that had really helped shape the show. And hello to this new beginning for two characters that we've been with, obviously, since. Since the beginning. Like, to see that clip that. The first clip that we saw, obviously, with Emmett and Keisha and Jada, and to see that clip, to go from that to that moment of them having a child and Jada making her transition, it's like, I can't. I can't answer anything more than that.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

It's a beautiful bow.

[Lena Waithe]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

Beautiful Ch.

[Lena Waithe]

We got another bow to tie. Oh, another one.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

And another one.

[Lena Waithe]

Mini bows.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

Many bows. Which brings us to season eight. Eight. The last season.

[Lena Waithe]

Yes. The shy says goodbye.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

The shy says, hey.

[Lena Waithe]

Yeah. I'm really grateful that people are. Are so excited and. Yeah. Just sharing it and just getting hyped up. Let's do this last dance.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

And I also want to say I'm grateful that you guys got a chance to say a proper goodbye.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Right.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

And we had a chance to see the evolution of the characters, because often times our shows don't get that.

[Lena Waithe]

No, you're absolutely right. And I will say, y' all know I'm a TV head. I love television, and I've gotten a chance to watch some really iconic TV shows in Real time. In real time. So I got a chance to see some really important shows for me, say goodbye. One of those shows was the Cosby Show. I remember seeing Heathcliff and Claire dance off the set, break the fourth wall. A different world. I got to see another single. Martin. All these shows say goodbye, but this one, this one gets to be in that. Those that line up, that line of TV shows that people crowd around and get ready for that final bow. And I'm really grateful that we'll all get to have that moment together. And it's gonna be. It's gonna be sad. But you know, we ain't done. We still got more to do.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

Just don't touch. Not one of them kids. Jake better make it. That's all I know. Welcome to see you.

[Lena Waithe]

Look, ain't no telling. We don't know. We ain't going to say nothing. You got to watch to find out. You know how we do. It's the shy. Anything is possible. Okay?

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

We won't get into this party, but we. So I want to say thank you to the casting.

[Lena Waithe]

Cool.

[Interviewer/Host with Lena Waithe]

The Paramount plus Paramount Television. And of course, the thank you to everybody who come.

[Lena Waithe]

Shout out cast. Everybody in here. Congratulations. Shout out to Paramount Plus.

[Lauren LaRosa]

All right, y'.

[Lena Waithe]

All.

[Lauren LaRosa]

That was the conversation with Ms. Alena Waith, the creator in the force behind the shy. I mean, it's coming to an end, season eight. And I think there was nobody else better to host that conversation other than Ms. Bevy Smith. So if you guys enjoyed the conversation, let me hear back from you. Get out in the streets and in the tweets. Let's talk about it. I'll be back with another amazing episode of the Latest with Lauren LaRosa, the podcast. And I tell you guys, every single episode. My lowriders. Y' all could be anywhere with any old body talking about all of these things, but you guys choose to be right here with me. I appreciate it. See you later.

[Wheezy (WTF from Decisions, Decisions)]

This is Wheezy. WTF from Decisions, decisions, ladies. Let's talk about taking control of our sexual health. That's grown woman energy. You may think HIV affects someone else somewhere else, but the truth is it's impacting our community. And some of us are being hit harder than others. Black women make up just 13% of the women in the US yet account for nearly half of new HIV diagnoses amongst women. Taking care of ourselves is community care. Know your options, ask questions, and protect your peace and your body. That's using your power. Sponsored by Care for the Culture from Gilead Sciences.

[Dr. J. Barnett]

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[Lauren LaRosa]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.