INTERVIEW: A.J. Johnson & Tressa Smallwood Talk 'Fighting To Be Me', College Hazing, Polygamy + More

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Breakfast Club – Interview with A.J. Johnson & Tressa Smallwood

Release Date: March 19, 2025

In this compelling episode of The Breakfast Club, hosts DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, and Charlamagne Tha God engage in an in-depth conversation with A.J. Johnson and Tressa Smallwood. The discussion delves into Tressa’s journey in her new film 'Fighting To Be Me', the pervasive issue of college hazing, the complexities of polygamy, and much more. This summary captures the essence of their conversation, highlighting key points, insightful quotes, and the overarching themes addressed throughout the episode.

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1. Introduction of Guests

The episode kicks off around [02:03], where DJ Envy warmly welcomes returning guest A.J. Johnson and introduces newcomer Tressa Smallwood. The camaraderie sets the stage for an open and honest dialogue.

2. Tressa Smallwood’s Dual Citizenship and Life in Africa

Tressa opens up about her experiences living between Los Angeles and Africa. She shares her motivation for relocating, particularly her observations during the COVID-19 pandemic.

"I saw governmental and political what didn't feel right to me... So I started investigating, like, citizenship and just what it would take to do business there and to live there." ([02:58])

Tressa discusses obtaining dual citizenship and her efforts in helping others navigate the process through retreats aimed at providing an intimate introduction to African life, moving beyond typical tourism.

3. Impact of Living in Ghana on Mental Wellness

At [06:14], the conversation shifts to how residing in Ghana has positively influenced Tressa’s mental health.

"I don't experience any colorism... The love and acceptance is different, the conversations are different." ([06:14])

She contrasts her sense of safety and community in Africa with the racial tensions she navigates in the United States, emphasizing the comfort and collaborative spirit she finds in Africa.

4. Differences in Celebrity Life between Africa and the States

Tressa and A.J. explore the nuances of being celebrities in Africa versus the U.S. Tressa highlights the reciprocal value exchange:

"African celebrity also wants some of the American celebrity... we're looking for international scripts so that we can join forces and bridge and do more projects." ([07:25])

They discuss how collaboration across continents can enhance their creative endeavors and bring diverse stories to a broader audience.

5. Discussing Their Film 'Fighting To Be Me'

The core of the interview revolves around their film 'Fighting To Be Me', premiered on BET. A.J. Johnson elaborates on the film's significance and the challenges in bringing such stories to fruition.

"It's a responsibility of mine to tell the diverse stories that other people won't tell... that's exactly why I'm tackling it, because nobody else is gonna do it." ([11:38])

Tressa adds depth by explaining the personal and cultural importance of the film, particularly its portrayal of unconditional love within the LGBTQ community.

6. The Story of Dwayne "Dwyn" Curry

A significant portion of the discussion centers on Dwayne "Dwyn" Curry, a respected Hollywood stylist whose life took a tumultuous turn.

"Dwyn was actually creating the celebrities in the 90s based on knowing your image... she became a convicted felon for credit card fraud." ([10:16])

They delve into Dwyn's influence in the 90s fashion scene, his struggles within the LGBTQ community, and his transformation into an advocate post-incarceration. A.J. emphasizes the importance of telling his story to shed light on the intersectionality of race, sexuality, and redemption.

7. Importance and Challenges of Alternative Storytelling in Hollywood

A.J. and Tressa discuss the systemic barriers in Hollywood that hinder diverse storytelling. They advocate for independent productions that prioritize authentic narratives over mainstream trends.

"Every single movie that I've ever produced under the Megamind Media banner... because we want to see the movies that other people won't greenlight." ([16:10])

Tressa stresses the longevity and cultural impact of films like House Party and Baby Boy, arguing that authentic stories rooted in Black joy and complex familial relationships have enduring relevance.

8. Reflections on 'Baby Boy' and Its Impact

Reflecting on her role in Baby Boy, Tressa shares how the film prepared her for her work on 'Fighting To Be Me'.

"Baby Boy helped prepare me for fighting to be me... single moms are learning growing up and learning with their kids that... love always wins." ([24:56])

She underscores the film's message about the strength and resilience of single mothers, which resonates deeply with her current project.

9. Discussion on College Hazing and Sororities

Transitioning to heavier topics, Tressa draws from her personal experiences with hazing during her time at Spelman.

"Hazing is a personal thing. It's not an organization thing... I can comfortably say that hazing is not necessary." ([29:16])

She outlines her roles as Dean of Pledges and Dean of Probates, emphasizing her proactive stance against hazing and her efforts to foster a safe and supportive environment within Greek life.

10. The Importance of Support and Ownership in Filmmaking

Both guests highlight the critical role of community support and ownership in producing meaningful films. A.J. discusses the financial and distribution challenges of independent filmmaking.

"We need the eyeballs on these projects... we're needing more people talking about it." ([21:04])

Tressa complements this by advocating for informed investment and marketing to ensure the longevity and impact of culturally significant projects.

11. Final Thoughts and Future Projects

As the interview concludes, A.J. and Tressa share their aspirations for future projects that continue to push boundaries and tell untold stories.

A.J. reveals her ambition for faith-based adjacent narratives that explore the human side of faith without portraying characters as perfect beings. Tressa expresses her desire to create biopics that honor trailblazers like Florence Griffith Joyner (Flo Jo) and to explore diverse relationship dynamics, including polygamy from a modern, spiritually-informed perspective.

"I want to tell a story that will relate to the masses where they can see, oh, wow... I want to tell a story like that and I want to do it in a big way with an excellent cast." ([49:33])

They emphasize the ongoing mission to reshape Hollywood narratives, prioritize authentic representation, and inspire the next generation through their work.

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This episode of The Breakfast Club offers a profound exploration of personal reinvention, cultural representation, and the power of storytelling. A.J. Johnson and Tressa Smallwood provide insightful perspectives on navigating dual identities, combating systemic challenges in the entertainment industry, and fostering supportive communities both in the U.S. and Africa. Their candid dialogue not only highlights pressing social issues but also celebrates resilience and the transformative power of authentic narratives.

Transcript

[DJ Envy]

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[Charlamagne tha God]

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[DJ Envy]

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[Charlamagne tha God]

Wake that ass up early in the morning.

[DJ Envy]

The Breakfast Club Morning everybody. It's DJ Envy Jess. Hilarious Charlamagne the guy we are the breakfast club. Lauren LaRosa here for Jess and we got some special guests joining us this Morning. We have A.J. johnson. She's back. Good morning.

[Tressa Smallwood]

Good morning.

[DJ Envy]

And we have Tressa Smallwood. Welcome.

[A.J. Johnson]

Good morning, everyone.

[DJ Envy]

How you feeling this morning, ladies?

[A.J. Johnson]

Fantastic.

[Tressa Smallwood]

Listen, I'm in New York. It's cold as. I don't know what, but I'm here.

[DJ Envy]

It ain't that bad. If you'd have came a week ago, it had been like 30, 20 degrees.

[Tressa Smallwood]

Well, you know, when you're bouncing between LA and Africa, anything under 70 is like, I'm not going outside. Okay.

[Unknown]

Last time I saw you was in Ghana.

[Tressa Smallwood]

Yes.

[Unknown]

But you living there now.

[Tressa Smallwood]

Well, I was back and forth then. You just didn't know it. Cause it was December and everybody was hanging out. But I've been back and forth, living and working, since 2019.

[Unknown]

Wow.

[Tressa Smallwood]

Yeah. Yeah, I got the email early.

[DJ Envy]

I got the email early.

[Tressa Smallwood]

Listen, I was like.

[Unknown]

It was everything happening politically, or you just really wanted to just go and be back in Africa?

[Tressa Smallwood]

I'm gonna be honest, it was. I love the life that I was developing there. But with the pandemic, I saw governmentally and politically what didn't feel right to me. Not that I knew what was happening, but just in terms of the. And honestly, when Africa opened up late 2020, I got there around November 2020. So if you remember, we were. We had been told, oh, it's going to be two weeks. Oh, it's going to be six months.

[DJ Envy]

February.

[Tressa Smallwood]

That's right.

[DJ Envy]

Yeah.

[Tressa Smallwood]

Right when it first started in 2020. And of course, you know, you cough on Monday, you did by Friday. So I was like, so, right. So when I got to Africa and I'm watching CNN from there, me and my African friends are like, well, why is everybody dying? You know, we had masks on just to respect it, but it was like, you know, you take a pill and everything's fine. So I was like, you know what? Something's not right and let me start making moves now. So I started investigating, like, citizenship and just what it would take to do business there and to live there. And so I'm bouncing back and forth.

[DJ Envy]

So you're a dual citizen?

[Tressa Smallwood]

Oh, yeah.

[DJ Envy]

I love it.

[Tressa Smallwood]

Oh, yeah.

[Unknown]

You've been helping people get dual citizenship, too, I saw.

[Tressa Smallwood]

Yeah. I mean, you know, when I. When it says help, Just to clarify, because, you know, people are flooding my DMs, you know, who do I need to write? What do I need to do?

[DJ Envy]

Who do I need to talk to?

[Tressa Smallwood]

Listen, can I pay you to get my passport? So I said, what that means is really that, you know, I'm taking groups over with retreats I got a retreat in July and a retreat in December. Been doing that for five years just to show you the country, just to introduce it to you intimately. You know, get you off a tour bus and out of a group of a hundred and just really have you and, you know, meet people, really have real estate conversations, learn what it's like to be employed when you're there. The rules are different. The country's different. And so we can't keep going as Americans expecting Africa to be America or to be run like that. So I try to educate and share, you know, from my life so that when it's time and you're really saying, I want to make a move, I want to be a citizen, you know, what it really takes.

[DJ Envy]

What got you to Ghana? When did you first go to Ghana? And was like, this is. I like this. This is where I want to live.

[Tressa Smallwood]

I told you this, John Wade. I actually went for a birthday turn up. I was going through a breakup, and I was like, I need new. I need new fragrances, new. I need new. New. New men, new food, new clothes, new music. And so I went in 2019, and I went with Bozeman St. John and Boris and Nicole Cudjoe, and they took a group of celebrities. At the time, it was called Full Circle Festival. And so I was part of that. And that seven days changed my life mentally, spiritually, nutritionally, health wise. I mean, I saw a difference in my hair and skin and weight management. No lie, like in four days, just because the food was different, you know, no. No chemicals, no hormones. And we don't know what that's like unless you spend time over there. And so I was like, oh, I'm so down with what I'm seeing and feeling. And so I just started saying, you know, I'm a sell some of my Hermes bags. I'm gonna stop buying, you know, I'm gonna stop buying some of the red bottoms and finance some flights over there. And the more I went, the more I learned about, of course, us as a culture that we don't know. And the more I started embracing the African that I am.

[Unknown]

When you think about your overall, we gonna talk about what y'all here for, which is fighting to be.

[Tressa Smallwood]

We got a lot of catching up to do.

[Unknown]

When you think about your overall mental wellness, how does living in Ghana affect that as opposed to living into the United States of anxiety?

[Tressa Smallwood]

I mean, first of all, you know, to get off the plane and see everybody black. I'm not saying that there's not issues within us as people, but they're sure not. Racial issues. I don't experience personally, I don't experience any colorism. You know, I'm still talking to a lot of women who are dealing with, you know, light skin, brown skin, you know, over there. It's, you know, the black and a berry because our skin is so beautiful. And so that part, the safety of it, I'm not running from the cops, you know, if I see sirens behind my car, I don't get nervous. And even just the love, the love and acceptance is different, the conversations are different. You know, we're talking about, you know, being African and what that means and how do we get our resources back in our pockets as opposed to the madness going on here. So I just, I'm just more comfortable.

[DJ Envy]

I love it.

[Tressa Smallwood]

And we're creators, you know, we're creative creators, naturally. So I, I have more experience with more collaboration spirits as opposed to I got mine, you get yours, which I think is a lot of what happens here. And so I really love the collaborative energy I'm experiencing there.

[Unknown]

How, how is celebrity different being in Africa versus being over here in the States?

[Tressa Smallwood]

I think. Well, I'm gonna answer it a couple ways. One of the reasons I'm back and forth is because I feel and see my value there as an American celebrity. And I don't mind that. I know that they value my work and my resume and so we're using that as well, teaching master classes and things like that. But at the same time, I think the African celebrity also wants some of the American celebrity. So now after five years, I've got friends in the business there and we're trying to, you know, we're looking for scripts. You know, it's one of the reasons why trust and I connected. We're looking for international scripts so that we can join forces and bridge and do more projects. So I think there's benefits to the celebrity on both continents. But again, it's like, you know, what happens if we come together? That's the point. Right?

[Unknown]

And I know that you guys are here to talk about fighting. To me, the Dwyn Curry story you mentioned Tressa. And Tressa, I know you're new to the platform. Want to introduce yourself in Megamind Media, what you do?

[A.J. Johnson]

Yes, absolutely. So I'm Tressa Azarelle Smallwood. I'm CEO of Megamind Media, an independent movie production company that's making our own way in the industry. So where DEI gets cut, we don't get cut.

[Tressa Smallwood]

There you go, There you go. There you go. And I wanna make sure y'all know how important that is, which is why I'm paddling around with Marcis, because, you know, nowadays the studios are, are, are governing what we're doing, and they're not really that interested in our stories. And so this fighting to be me is my second project. With Megamind and Tressa, I did a Christmas movie, which I hadn't done. I'm trying to check the boxes of things I hadn't done. And so I did Holiday Heartbreak with Tressa, and I was like, yo, family, Family run. I was like, this is good. It feels good. You know, the project's good. I'm getting paid on time. I'm like, I love this. I love this.

[Unknown]

Who is Dwayne Curry? For the people who aren't familiar?

[DJ Envy]

Dwyn Curry?

[A.J. Johnson]

Yeah. You have a close relationship with Duane's?

[Tressa Smallwood]

Well, Dwen is a very well renowned and respected Hollywood stylist from the 90s. And honestly, not only is he known for styling celebrities like Lisa Ray and Yo yo and Missy Elliott, he was one of my first stylists right after House Party when I hit, you know. But, you know, in the 90s, you know, being gay and being in that world wasn't necessarily as accepted as it is now. And so Dwayne, looking for love and acceptance, turned to a life of crime. And so, yeah, and so in all of that celebrity and accolade, he became a convicted felon for credit card fraud. And so now she, in trans, in the trans community, is now an advocate, has done time and is trying to teach the more visible community in the LGBTQ how to survive and thrive actually, without it being criminal.

[DJ Envy]

Break down some of the people that Dwen styled for. Cause Dwayne styled for a lot of people.

[Tressa Smallwood]

Yeah. And I mean, I'm just naming a few. I said Lisa Ray, Missy Elliot, Gabrielle Union, me, dmx. DMX on there. I mean, and I'm telling you, in the 90s, it was like when, I mean, it's depicted in the movie when Dwayne would walk in a restaurant, a club, it was like, you know, the celebrity, the for real celebrity had arrived. Because, you know, we look at styling now as just, you know, who puts your hair and clothes together. But Dewin was creating the images. Dwyn was actually creating the celebrities in the 90s based on knowing your image is how you walk in the room, what you look like. And so in the 90s, a lot of us as black talent in the culture, we didn't know that, like, in the movie it depicts. You saw where yo, yo, yo, yo was like, you know, I'm a rapper with braids and a bandana. And Dwyn was like, oh, no, no, no. You gotta be. You gotta be a sexy rapper. And changed her whole career trajectory. So it's.

[A.J. Johnson]

And she respect her a lot even now to, you know, they reach out to her like, hey, we. We don't want to let what's happening now and. And how people are kind of turning their backs on a lot of people in the community, and they're like, you know, you did this for us. You changed us. And they're stepping up for.

[Tressa Smallwood]

Oh, yeah. There's a lot of times I don't get dressed without saying, okay, this shoe or this shoe. And I'll send her. I'll send her pictures, and she'll be like, neither one. Do that one. And I was like, okay, okay.

[DJ Envy]

So why was this story so important to. Out of all the stories that you could picked or chose, why was this story so important to both of you guys?

[A.J. Johnson]

I think for me personally, you know, it. It's a responsibility of mine to tell the diverse stories that other people won't tell. You know, we know that in Hollywood, it's really challenging to get a project greenlit. And so because I have the capability of deciding, you know, what I'm gonna shoot, and I have distribution, I say, you know, how can I change somebody's life? What's the story? You know, and even with. With Dwen Curry, I had a lot of people say to me, hey, why would you pick this in particular when you know that it's a touchy subject in this day and age? And I said, that's exactly why I'm tackling it, because nobody else is gonna do it. And even when you think about the role that AJ Plays in the movie as Dwen's mother, who said, hey, I knew you were gay, I'm not gonna say I agree with this, but you're my son. I love you. People need to hear that now, right? People are going through it, and you need to know that there are people that are gonna believe in you, that they're gonna speak up for you, despite what everybody else is saying out here right now.

[Unknown]

He's. She's trans, right?

[A.J. Johnson]

Trans, yes. Trans.

[Tressa Smallwood]

And.

[A.J. Johnson]

And to be clear, you know, a lot of people are trying to figure out fully trans in terms of having the sexual, you know, assignment. No, but she is. She is trans, but not without the sexual. Without the assignment.

[Unknown]

I wonder, how do networks feel about that now? Because when you see, you know, President Trump sign an executive order basically saying that there's only two genders, male and female. Now, do even. Do networks even want to touch the.

[A.J. Johnson]

Don't they do not. And so this was a project that we shot last year, and we shot it in April in Washington D.C. and even then people were like, what is this Charlotte shooting? You know, what's going on? You know, but again, you gotta be courageous enough to tell the story, but know why you're telling it. And God is a God of love. I don't care what any of us believe. You know, we wanted to show that this is unconditional love. And if when you watch the movie, you see it from Dwayne's uncle, who said, hey, I don't like what you're doing. I don't like the drugs, I don't like any of this. But I love you and I'm gonna see you through this. And I think that that's something that we all need right now, just unconditional love.

[DJ Envy]

And I thought that was dope for that time period too. Cause that time period was a time where I think most people wouldn't understand. And for the uncle to actually say, no, I don't care what you do, what you're into, I want you to go to rehab.

[Tressa Smallwood]

Yeah, right.

[DJ Envy]

But I love you. And I thought that was amazing.

[A.J. Johnson]

And I don't want your riches. Because remember, Dwen tried to buy the love, right? Yeah, because I was like, okay, I'm getting money. Like now. I want. This is how I'm going to get you to like me. And the uncle's like, yeah, I don't need that. I love you just because I love you.

[Unknown]

And. Go ahead.

[Tressa Smallwood]

No, I was just going to say for me, honestly, the response for me, even, even 20 years after doing Baby Boy helped me decide to do it. I mean, Dwayne was like, you have to do it. You have, you know, you have to play this role. Tressa was like, there's nobody else. You have to do it. And it wasn't the personal conn for me to Dwyn and his mom that made me say yes. I learned with Baby Boy that so many women and so many mothers look to that story for permission to be complex and complicated in their mother son relationships.

[Unknown]

Mama gotta have a life too.

[Tressa Smallwood]

Come on now. And so you see, I'll pop right back, get it right. And so when I read the script and looked at the story, I liked the complexity of their relationship. I liked the complicatedness of it. And you know, I feel like that's Love, too. And especially in families navigating the LGBTQ community. And so I wanted to do my part to give permission to these women as mothers and sisters and the families, to know it's not easy and it's complicated, but you have permission to allow it to be. And so sometimes I think visually can change something. I posted one of the scenes on my Instagram yesterday where he first comes to tell me on a phone call that he's gay. And so even that, as simple as that is, that's a thing in our culture, right? That's a thing in our community. Do I say it? Do I not? I interviewed a lot of gay trans families, and so many gay men said they're 50 and they still haven't come out to their families. Wow. Right? So to me, it's another one for the culture. That's what I've been saying.

[DJ Envy]

I do gotta ask one question. You just mentioned House Party and just made me think about it.

[Tressa Smallwood]

I said, baby boy, but you can talk about House party.

[DJ Envy]

The reason I said House Party is my daughters dance. Right. And when I show the movies with people dancing that look like us, that's hip hop. We have to go back to House Party. And I always wondered, why don't we do cultural movies like that anymore? Like, we don't see those type of just. It don't have to be about the boys in the hood and that, but.

[Unknown]

Like, how ain't nobody dancing. They just on drugs.

[Tressa Smallwood]

Right?

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[A.J. Johnson]

The execs are not green lighting those types of projects. So we have to come together right, in our community and invest with each other. Every single movie that I've ever produced under the Megamind Media banner, we have investors that say, I'm gonna put this money up because I want to see the movies that other people won't greenlight, and that's what's making it happen.

[Tressa Smallwood]

And just think about what's crazy about that, because House party just celebrated 35 years. Crazy, crazy. And we're still talking about still doing the dances still, which I love. And then you got the other side of it. Baby boy is celebrating 20, 22 years. So it's like, if you're looking for the longevity in your content, it's kind of best to say, you know, why not? Why try to fix what's. What's not broken in terms of the just feel good camaraderie films, the family films. So a lot of times, you know, the studios are following the trends. That's not necessarily what's gonna be Talked about in 35 years, I think the.

[Unknown]

90S, early 2000s, was more focused on Black Joy.

[Tressa Smallwood]

Yeah, you know, I agree.

[Unknown]

And then somewhere along the line, it just became about oppression in a lot of ways. You know what I mean?

[Tressa Smallwood]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, sign of the government, sign of the times. Right side. Sign of where we are. But I also think, which is what I love about Tressa and Megamind media. They're not afraid, which is how we came to fighting to be me. They're not afraid to take a stance and say, this story is important for the culture. It's not getting done and we need to tell it, we need to talk about it, we need to give support to it. And so here we are. And it's, you know, it's a visual support system.

[Unknown]

Y'all touch. I'm sorry, go ahead.

I was gonna say y'all touch. So much stuff in the movie, I literally kept saying to myself, why haven't I heard of this movie? Why haven't I seen it? Some of this stuff could go viral. The names involved. And that was the first question I asked you this morning when I saw you. Like, yo, why I didn't hear about this before you guys were coming up here? And it's unfortunate. Cause it's really, really good. Like, she. Dwyn is so fly and it's just so fabulous. You like? Oh, okay. She was getting money with the G's, the gay gangsters.

[Tressa Smallwood]

Don't you love at least. What? Watch it. What I love. Have you seen it yet? Show. I mean. No, you gotta see it.

[Unknown]

He got a lot of gay gangsters.

[Tressa Smallwood]

I know, I know. What I love is watching. You know, I. I love how brilliantly we. We went through the timeline with the fashion. If you notice Mama S's hair changed from a certain bob to highlights to platinum blonde. You know, Platinum Blonde was out killing it. You know, Platinum Blonde wasn't out till like mid-90s, late-90s. Right. So even the timeline and the dress, you know, Dwyn's hairstyles, the blowout, the.

[Unknown]

Leather wraparound top that you had on with the cut when Dwyn called you from jail.

[Tressa Smallwood]

Yes.

[Unknown]

I was like, oh, mom is getting money now. And they sitting up like, this is like gangsta fashion right now. Like, this is like drug lord fashion.

[Tressa Smallwood]

Yes.

[Unknown]

That's the giving.

[Tressa Smallwood]

If you don't know the 90s, you kind of gotta go back and research that. But if you really look at the 90s, that story, like, you're saying the story is filled with so much that's different stories besides just what's happening?

[Unknown]

What did you guys decide to omit from the movie, though? Because you even mentioned names directly.

[DJ Envy]

Like, but one name you told me. Zaire.

[Unknown]

Oh, who is Zaire? Is who is Zaire? Because. Okay, so background. You gotta give him background for people who didn't see it.

[Tressa Smallwood]

Yeah, so. So Zaire was one of Dwin's life loves that happened to be an up and coming rapper in the 90s, really popular, but was gay and a Muslim. And so at the time, of course, you know, he wasn't out, but they were madly in love. And so, you know, in the story, it portrays that, that situation and the hardship of not just them being gay and lovers, but how does this work? And the fact that it didn't then or it doesn't now, we don't know. But once again, just, you know, we're talking about freedom. How many of people are fighting their sexuality because of their religious beliefs or their family, you know, their upbringing, their family background? So that's one person in it. I mean, a lot of names were changed. There's a couple of situations that's not.

[Unknown]

Who you thought it was, but it's.

Definitely not who you thought it was. Yeah, figured that name changed.

Muslim. I'm like, nah, he wasn't there.

I was like, wait, what? Who is it? Because y'all directly say other people's names. And I'm like, that was done on purpose. But I get, I understand why.

[Tressa Smallwood]

And there's also the whole reality star thing that sent him, that sent her back to prison. Yeah, that's a name change. Okay, so, you know, you have to go find the Easter eggs, as they call them in cinema. The truth of the stories. But yeah, there's a lot. There's a lot that. And we're hoping to do a series. Cause there's so. I mean, let me just say this. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree. We had an hour and a half to tell the story. But listen, Dwyn, she gets it from somewhere. And that mama sin. That mama sin. You know, there's a reason why she wasn't saying no, you keep the money. She was taking them furs and them diamonds and the clothes and the move to la. There's a lot going on.

[Unknown]

You know, y'all mentioned support. Support is important because you can make these films, but if nobody supports them, it won't make sense for you to do them and it won't make sense for studios to buy them. So how important is support?

[A.J. Johnson]

Absolutely. We need the eyeballs on these projects. And so, you know, Dwen Curry is currently streaming on bet, and we need everybody to go watch it. We, you know, Shameless Plug. Last night, AJ and I were in Times Square and we saw the billboard come up, right? And we were so excited. I mean, it was just like, okay, this is real. People are getting eyeballs on it. You know, we had a premiere last week. People started talking about it, but to Lauren's point, we need more people talking about it.

[Tressa Smallwood]

And, you know, I gotta say, even with these cultural, iconic, legendary projects, from my experience, it takes time, you know, for these stories that are not mainstream, it takes time. You know, House Party was a small independent when it first came out. Baby Boy didn't do. It was a Sony picture, but it didn't really do great in the theater. And so now everybody's like, oh, these are iconic classics. But, you know, once again, you just have to talk it up and market and, you know, thank you guys for having us, because we have to tell more of the community. You gotta watch, tune in, spread the word, you know, watch so we get more of them done.

[Unknown]

Have you ever turned down a film because it wasn't good for business? Because you want to create art, Right? But it's still a business. So you ever say to yourself, like, that might be a little tough?

[A.J. Johnson]

Yeah, true. I definitely think about distribution before I ever shoot anything, you know? And so it's. It's always, keep in mind, independently is my money. So that means you are really thinking this through in terms of, can I get this money back? Where can we go? Who's going to support it? And does it have longevity? Because when you own your films in perpetuity, like right now, BET owns the rights to Duane Curry. Well, five years from now, you can start licensing that product to another platform. And so you have to think, you know, ahead of the game, going, okay, in 10 years, who will still want to see this project?

[Tressa Smallwood]

And that's why she says it's important to own it. Because once the contract is up with a network, you go someplace and do what you want with it.

[Unknown]

Have you ever seen the meme AJ of there's a video of you in your garden as a baby boy's mom. And everybody's like, now that we older, we understand why her having his garden and having that blunt in the garden was so important. You saw that meme before?

[Tressa Smallwood]

Lord, let me tell you something. Every time somebody posts it, yes, I get it sent to me a thousand times.

[Unknown]

So when you see that, I mean, you probably understood that then, because you Were at. You know what I mean? You were in it. You had to channel the character. But like, when you see that and you see, like. Cause my generation is doing it, people younger than me are reposting it. Like that type of impact, like, what's your response to that? Are you tired of it? Are you?

[Tressa Smallwood]

I didn't know. And listen, when I shot the film, I didn't know. I didn't get it. So I feel like everybody else.

[Unknown]

You did. No, we believed you so bad.

[Tressa Smallwood]

Well, I was acting, but then I was. But I'm saying now that I'm older, I understand that stance, you know, in terms of just wanting the piece and finding your own place, especially as women, you know, we're so busy doing and doing and doing that I now understand the importance of. Yeah, but where's the piece? Is it in your garden? Is it just with a glass of wine? Is it kicking it with your girls? So I understand. And the fact that it's become such an iconic moment, you never can predict that, you know, at least I can't. I never can predict what's going to be iconic. And I don't pick projects even thinking that I pick projects because I know that my divine assignment is to do projects where there's a message. And, you know, and I always think if I do this, it just took me up to think about it. If I do this project, can I change one life? Can I talk to one person and maybe shift their perspective? If the answer is yes, that's why I do it. So that's why you don't see me a lot, honestly, in film. It's gotta mean something. I can't just do the hot. The hot project or the hot script. If I can't find a reason for me to give a message, then it's not mine.

[Unknown]

What makes you want to do a film? Because, you know, when I watch Baby Boy now, I got a whole different perspective of it than I did 20 years ago. So what made you want to do that film 20 years ago? What was the message in it for you?

[Tressa Smallwood]

The message was, you know, single moms are not necessarily the downfall and to give single moms hope in once again, like I said, that prepared me for fighting to be me. You know, single moms, especially in the hood, are learning growing up and learning with their kids that, you know, I wanted to give them permission to fail and, and, and to keep moving and that love always wins. Even Mama Cin said, not knowing that she was. She was confirming what I knew from the experience of Baby Boy, when I was researching with Mama Sin and just making her go deep about why certain things that I knew were gonna be depicted in this film, she finally said, tear streaming. She said, you know, fear can lead, but love has to win. And so that's. That's what made me go, okay. Because as black women in these situations, a lot of times we're leading and living in fear. And so if the film can depict, step out the fear and do what you know you have to do, whether it's putting your son out because it's time for him to learn how to be a man on his own and you can't do it, or whether it's, you know, sending your. Your drug addict gay son away in the 90s because, you know, he at the time doesn't know who he. She is, then sometimes love is doing the hard thing. And so if God's choosing me to do it on film, I gotta do it, baby.

[Unknown]

That's how I felt too, watching. When you watch Baby boy now, it's like at first, when you first see it, you think this is a movie about this young man, but it's really about the women and the women in his life and how he has to eventually break the cycle. I think of single motherhood in a lot of ways.

[Tressa Smallwood]

And let me tell you now that it's years later, one of the things, my dear love and friend John Singleton, when Sony told him that they wanted a PG rating, it was. It was. It was shot to be R because it was a lot of the women, the sexuality and all that. Sony said they wanted PG and pushed the film with Tyrese and Snoop because they were the hot. The hot talents at MTV at the time. That wasn't the story, though. So they actually gave John millions of dollars to reshoot some of the film to focus on them. A lot of the chase scenes at the end, you know, Snoop coming out of jail, he was on the phone most of the time in the original script. And it was about me and Ving in the relationship, Taraji and Tyrese. But the studio was like, that's not the story. What's funny now is what you just said all these years later. It is exactly. The story isn't that deep. Yeah.

[Unknown]

Cause the family you ended up with Bing Rheims, so that's a full family now.

[Tressa Smallwood]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

You know, Tyrese and Taraji ended up together, so that's a full family now. Only person who got left out was Tyrese first Baby mama.

[Tressa Smallwood]

Yeah. She ain't marrying nobody.

[Unknown]

She the only one she the only one.

It be like that sometimes, you know.

[A.J. Johnson]

I want to just give AJ A shout out because I was thinking about as you were talking, they don't know your presence on set. When AJ comes on set, everybody is going to leave fulfilled. You're gonna get schooled, and you don't even know that you're getting schooled. You're gonna get some inspiration, and you don't even realize that it's coming. People, you change so many lives when you're on set. You always do.

[Tressa Smallwood]

I hope so, because I know now that when I go on set, I'm not there to boost my celebrity. You know, I'm not there. I mean, honestly, I've been doing this since I was 20. So, you know, the red carpets, I get it. But you already know, you know, life is more than that. At least for me, it is. And to be able to travel and live in other countries is way more than that. So for me, when I go on set, I know it's a divine assignment to just show people at this age and stage that your life can be full and it doesn't have to be about chasing the next project. Like, even now, when I'm doing interviews and red carpets for this, so what's your next project? And I said, golly, journalists are still asking that, like, after 20, 30 years. And I say, you know what? I don't freaking know. And I'm okay with that. I'm okay with that. I'm producing, you know, I'm looking for projects. We're looking for scripts. So we don't know yet. But, I mean, I couldn't say that with confidence 20 years ago, because that just wasn't the thing to do. But now, the freedom I live with, the freedom is amazing. So I'm just trying to, you know, be an example on set. And I know that's why I'm there.

[DJ Envy]

Now, I gotta ask, you attended and you graduated Spelman. Yeah, In Atlanta. Now you're also a member of Delta Sigma Theta.

[Tressa Smallwood]

Have been for years.

[DJ Envy]

Now, you heard this yesterday morning when we were talking about the young man that lost his life by hazing.

[Tressa Smallwood]

So glad you're bringing this out. Go ahead.

[DJ Envy]

And wanted you to break that down. We were talking about is hazing. Should fraternities and sororities, should they still be doing hazing at this point?

[Tressa Smallwood]

Okay, how much time we got? Because.

[Unknown]

Okay, let's know your rank.

[Tressa Smallwood]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So let's start with the fact that I pledged at 17, one of the youngest undergraduate pledges at Spelman. At the time. And then through my stay at Spelman, I became vice president of the chapter, which then gives me Dean of Pledges when the new line comes in and Dean of Probates. The difference between those is Dean of Pledges is you bring the new pledges in and see them through the process. Dean of Probates means you carry them through the end of the process because it's a process. And so having those two positions, I can comfortably say that hazing is a personal thing. It's not an organization thing when I say that. Meaning if you've been hazed before and you want to interject that on a new pledge, that's a personal thing. My pledge period was no walk in the park. It was not. And so one of the reasons I wanted to become Dean of Pledges is to say that's not necessary. And again, we're talking about undergraduate pledging. So when you are 25 and 26 and you're no longer even in the school, and you're still coming back to be part of the pledge period, that's also a personal thing. Like, what are you missing and why are you coming back to inflict possibly deadly, fatal force. If you're in the institution and you're a member of the chapter, nine times out of 10, you're being raised in the way that the chapter is being raised. And so nowadays, hazing's not allowed. So, again, I'm still going to. There's something personal, a personal vendetta that somebody's exercising in that. The other side of it is, as Dean of Pledges, I'm in control. And that's just it. I'm in control of not only who's around the pledges within the chapter, but also the visiting members of the organization that come back. So it's my say who gets to be around the pledges, period. So that job only goes to. We were talking about this. That job only goes to a strong spirit, an authoritative spirit, to make sure that the pledges stay safe. So were there sorrows coming back around when I was Deena Plagia's? Absolutely. Was I the one saying, no, we're not doing that. No, you can't be there, and you know who they are. See, that's the other thing. A lot of these hazers, you know who they are or you know the potential they have, so they're not strangers to your organization or to your chapter. You have to stand up and say, that's gonna be a no.

[DJ Envy]

Now, when you look at tradition, right? Cause you Know, a lot of people that been through the process. White say I've been paddled before.

[Tressa Smallwood]

Yeah.

[DJ Envy]

A lot of people say I might been whatever before.

[Tressa Smallwood]

Yeah.

[DJ Envy]

And usually those things don't kill you, don't hurt you, but in situations, it can happen.

[Tressa Smallwood]

Yes.

[DJ Envy]

So what do you say in that.

[Tressa Smallwood]

Situation in terms of when you have those things going, like paddle. Right.

[DJ Envy]

That's something that a lot of sororities and fraternities say that has happened before. Right. But you can get hit with a paddle and die.

[Tressa Smallwood]

Yes. And so here's the open honesty. So I've been paddled. Usually when I have the Century Club.

[DJ Envy]

The lady called this morning and said she was at the Century Club.

[Tressa Smallwood]

I did. I did. I made the Century.

[Unknown]

You were young, so they.

Are you allowed to talk about that?

[Tressa Smallwood]

Not beyond me saying, I mean, I'm part of the Century Club.

[Unknown]

Yeah. I was gonna say, because normally I. I don't know how much you could talk about, but I have a. I have friends that have been younger on the line.

[Tressa Smallwood]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

And they got a little bit worse because they were younger.

[Tressa Smallwood]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

I don't know if your experience leaning toward that either, too, because you were younger. Like, they were making examples.

[Tressa Smallwood]

Um, I don't know if that was the. I mean, I do believe sometimes that is the case. I don't necessarily think that was the case with my line. Um, and when I pledged, it was a lot of suspended chapters. It was a lot of, you know, not having lines for years. So, you know. But once again, we're talking about a different time. We're talking about early, you know, late 80s, early 90s. So it's a whole different time. Um, but what I say is once. And you're typically blindfolded, so you don't know who it is. You don't know what's happening. Right. So to me, once I became a member of the chapter and started seeing how that works, there's things that can replace that. You know, that's tradition that doesn't need to stay.

[DJ Envy]

Gotcha.

[Tressa Smallwood]

And that's what I feel. You know, there's traditions that don't need to stay. I mean, when I was the apologies and a lot of my plagiarism is gonna say I had them exercising. I mean, that was punishment enough. Right. You don't know your founders run a mile. And they were like, oh, man. Really? It's like, you know, there's different forms of teaching and being authoritative without it being physical abuse.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

I just feel like if it's college, it should be something more Cerebral.

[Tressa Smallwood]

Well, I'm just. I mean, there's just. It doesn't have to be physical abuse, period. And that's just my stance.

[DJ Envy]

But, you know, sometimes people will say that the graduate people that's. That's in the fraternity of sorority are not looked as the same as the people that actually quote, unquote, pledged.

[Unknown]

Grad chapter.

[Tressa Smallwood]

Grad chapter. Correct. Well, that's true. And then we also. Some organizations in the D9 also have honorary. Now, what I say as having pledged is what's most important to me is the union and the camaraderie of me having had line sisters, some of my best friends. To this day, as separate as our lives have gone. Kids, no kids, teacher. I'm in Hollywood. We're still connected because we helped each other through a trying process as we were teenagers. You're not getting that in graduate. Right. And you're definitely not going through that when you're in. When you're an honorary. So I think we have to value. In undergrad, we have to value the truth of the process and know that it doesn't have to be physically abusive, especially when it can be fatal.

[DJ Envy]

Now, also talk about the importance of sororities and fraternities. Cause Charlamagne was like, shoot, I might as well do a blood and crip.

[Tressa Smallwood]

I heard you.

[A.J. Johnson]

I asked that too, earlier when we started talking. I said, hey, tell me, what is the biggest benefit now at your age? I said, because I didn't pledge, because I didn't like seeing what some of my friends online were going through. And so I was like, give it to me. I said, tell me.

[Unknown]

I feel like aesthetic, you give aka, but internally you give Delta.

[Tressa Smallwood]

That's what I think. We can change the aesthetic.

[Unknown]

Right?

[Tressa Smallwood]

Right.

[Unknown]

Like, no, no, no. Because Deltas be like, you know what I mean? Deltas are those girls, period. I know what you mean, but I do think you. There's a look.

[Tressa Smallwood]

Do I know what you mean?

[Unknown]

Period.

[Tressa Smallwood]

I do.

[Unknown]

But can you talk about that from undergrad and then graduate? Like, what's the importance? Undergrad and then graduate?

[Tressa Smallwood]

I don't think. I don't think it changes. I think it matures. I don't think the benefit changes in undergrad. You know, when you're studying, when you're looking to graduate and find a job, you know, you've got generations of women that have gone, that are with you, that have gone before you, that are going to be a help that you won't normally have. You've got sorority members that are in corporations that may be able to get your resume in a different position and faster than if you weren't a member. And, and remember, I'll speak for mine. You know, there's a certain GPA that is required to pledge and so you've got a certain intellect going back to the collegian thing, you've got a certain intellect to even qualify.

[Unknown]

Y'all don't play about education.

[Tressa Smallwood]

No, we don't. And so our foundation, our foundation is service and education. So.

[DJ Envy]

I didn't make it because of that.

[Unknown]

Some will like some fraternities, sororities, if they want you bad enough, they'll figure it out. But Delta does not play about that is their number one thing. They don't play about the and I'm.

[Tressa Smallwood]

Gonna tell you, even in the graduate level it's even strict with being being a grad you having a graduate degree. At this point I probably wouldn't have made line outside of undergrad because I don't have the, the. The graduate level education that's required.

[DJ Envy]

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[Tressa Smallwood]

So that's part of it. And so what happens is the organization is building a platform and a funnel of education like mind, like minded, like spirited women. So now you've got all these women who are successful in their own right, helping each other worldwide so they're worldwide organizations. I can travel, whether it's Australia, Africa. And I'm meeting a Sarah who's saying, hey, what are you trying to do? Hey, what are you trying to do? Well, let's connect. Or I know a Sarah who's. Or who's. So I don't know where I would be, whether it's Hollywood or, or just in my life if I didn't have sorrows to call on. And now it's bigger than Delta. For me, it's now D9. Because as a, as a Hollywood personality, it's more than just Delta. I've got friends and colleagues that are AKA and Zeta. And so now it's even bigger because now we have more of a D9 sorority going than just Delta or just AKA or just Zeta or just Sigma Gamma Ra. So it's really a like minded, like spirited from the beginning.

[Unknown]

Is there a film y'all would want to make about the D9?

[A.J. Johnson]

That's confirmation. Your confirmation.

[Tressa Smallwood]

We just talked just because of this. We were talking about it because I was saying to Tressa, I've seen where TV shows and movies have tried to touch on it, but they rarely use true Greeks to consult. And so it's always been a problem for me to have pledged and obviously passionate about it, but not. But them not getting the intricate details right. Not that we tell the secrets of the organization, but there's still things that could help people better understand why we pledged. The fact that you're even asking that means that the stories that have been told have not been accurate enough.

[DJ Envy]

Well, not only that, it's bigger in other communities or in other cities than other. Like I'm from New York, right. So fraternities and sororities we didn't see as much. But I had roommates from Indiana, Mississippi and Atlanta. So it was everything for them and legacy. My dad did this.

[Unknown]

Still around still.

[DJ Envy]

When you have those roommates and they're telling you about it and what it does, it hypes you up to be like, damn, I think I want to do that. Which put me onto it. Cause I'd never heard anything about it. But they would always say, when I graduate, my brother's going to help me get this job. My fraternity brother's going to help me in this lane. He's going to guide me when it comes to this. And I was like, that's things.

[Unknown]

I feel like that's what people should see via cinema. Because if they saw that, it would make. It would probably inspire people to want to be.

It's Hard to explain to people who haven't been on HBCU campus, actually went to the school because you know that while you're there, but, like, see it. Yeah. And you feel it, like, the Greek impact. That's why, like, when Kamala was getting all that flack for, like, going and speaking to Greek organizations over whatever. I'm like, if people understood the power of the Divine Nine and what they can do when they unify, they would get it. But for people who've never been on an HBCU campus, you don't feel the power and the culture that Divine Nine brings. And I think it is because we're not seeing it in cinema, maybe consistently in the right way.

[A.J. Johnson]

Divine. We looking for investors.

[Tressa Smallwood]

Yeah, for sure.

[Unknown]

I'm always down for that.

You know her leading lady, too.

[Tressa Smallwood]

Yeah, well, you know, a co. Lead, period.

[Unknown]

Oh, right. But wait, is that why Judge Mathis is one of the. He's like the. He's an EP on the Dwayne Curry. Because he is. Do you know him? Be through the. He's a. He's a.

[A.J. Johnson]

So I. So Judge actually took in both the Tanisa Welch story and the Dwen Carey story to bet because BET was doing the American Gangsters series. And so both of those projects, they had episodics, which I think it was like, maybe 45 minutes. And so those were the two projects that BET said, all right, let's. Let's make this a full biopic. But Judge Mathis was the one that took them in. He had relationships with both of them. And then they introduced Judge to me, and then that's how we.

[Unknown]

Oh, I thought. Because he's an Alpha, and I thought y'all might have, like, known each other just like.

[Tressa Smallwood]

No, it helped make a deeper connection.

[Unknown]

Got you.

[Tressa Smallwood]

No, but I just. I just want to add something about the Greek thing. You know, after spending time in Africa, another thing that I actually took a break because I was so. I was so busy in undergrad with Delta. I took a break because I just. I was burnt out. What made me want to come back to the organization here is because we don't have. As Americans, we don't have the sense of village that we had on the continent. So families live in compounds. You know, families work together, families grow together. As Americans, we don't have that. And so I feel like that's another reason why a lot of us pledged is to have that camaraderie in terms of. As we move through life here, our families separate, you know, as we get adults and we Marry, we separate. In Africa, the new wife comes, the husband comes, the kids come, and then we stay together. So because we don't have that experience, I think that's what makes a lot of us pledge. But I think that's what the Greek organizations based here in America have to remember, that we're creating villages. It's not about killing people.

[DJ Envy]

It's crazy. You said that. When I went to. Years ago, years ago, I went to Johannesburg to do some parties and do some shows. And the person that I went there, I went to visit him. And the way that he lived, he bought the property next door to his house and then brought the property next door to their house. And they all lived, like, in a big compound. And I just thought it was amazing. That's why my daughter still lives in my house now at 23. I just like that. I love the fact that you have that community. And I don't know where we got to the point where it's like, you turn 21, you gotta get the fuck out my house. I hate.

[Tressa Smallwood]

Well, we were taught that they're not running for.

[A.J. Johnson]

They're not right.

[Tressa Smallwood]

We. We were taught that.

[DJ Envy]

I like the fact that I can see my daughter every day, and it is what it is. She has a boyfriend. That's fine. I love the fact that everybody's in the same house, same community. We cook together, we play games together. We do this, we do that. There's no other feeling. But it's also a safety. For myself, I know where everybody is. I was gonna ask one thing that Louis V Said, which is our program director from Atlanta. He said the hardest thing about the Divine Nine is people don't pay their dues. And he said because of that, a lot of times, y'all don't have the power that y'all need. Cause y'all don't have the money and funding. Is that true?

[Tressa Smallwood]

I think it's an individual thing per organization, but I know that, you know, I also feel like dues paying has got to be more appealing in terms of what the organization is gonna do, you know, for me, because I'm a soul that's into service. I'm traveling the world in service. I mean, I work for orphanages in Ghana and Senegal, and I'm still doing what I was trained to do as a Delta. But to be in a chapter in an organization, I have to be attracted to what that chapter is gonna do. And if I'm paying dues, I need to know what's my money being put towards. And I think that's where a lot of organizations, the D9 organizations, have to elevate in terms of what are they really doing with the financial obligation. And so I. You know, there's always room to grow, so we'll see.

[Unknown]

Well, last question for you. What. What's your. What would you rate your most impactful, culturally impactful role of all your roles?

[Tressa Smallwood]

Oh, my goodness. You know, honestly, I've seen where, you know, House Party has done its thing and continues to do its thing. You know, I can't deny that. You know, people are still running up to me in Times Square at the airport.

[DJ Envy]

Are they trying to dance with you every week?

[Tressa Smallwood]

Yes.

[A.J. Johnson]

Yes.

[Tressa Smallwood]

Do you do it?

[Unknown]

Yes, you do.

A lot of that has to do with the fact you have not aged, man.

I told her that when I seen.

[A.J. Johnson]

Her, like, yo, she broke it down right out here before we came.

[Tressa Smallwood]

Had height. As soon as it hit, I was like, hey, yes. And then, of course, Baby Boy, you know, it has its plunge. And you see how to me, every project, I can't speak for every actress, but I know the way God moves with me. Every project pushes me into the next one. So, as you heard me say, Baby Boy helped prepare me for fighting to be me. This is my first installment of Taking a stance, anything lgbtq. And so that's a whole nother culture and community for me. So let's. I mean, I'm sure this project's gonna do something in that community, in that space, but as an African American culture, that's part of our culture. So I just think that for people to have seen me so much in Baby Boy and so many people have grown up with me. You were saying that, right? Have grown up with me in the culture. I think when I step on screen, it's just part of it anyway, and I take that to my advantage, it becomes impactful. Yeah, I know. Like I said, I know when I step on screen in a role like this, I know people are going to pay attention, and so I take that seriously.

[Unknown]

What do you think?

This role. I'm sorry. Go on.

No, I was just telling her you did a great job as Dwin's mom.

[Tressa Smallwood]

And you haven't met her. Who?

[Unknown]

Dwin.

[Tressa Smallwood]

Dwayne's mom.

[Unknown]

Oh, like the real mama said. Oh, no, no, no, no. She crazier than how you were on screen?

[Tressa Smallwood]

Yes.

[Unknown]

Because you put a gun to tell. Don't tell.

[Tressa Smallwood]

Okay. Don't tell. I pull a gun. Let's just say, yes, I pull a.

[Unknown]

Gun early on in the movie.

[Tressa Smallwood]

Yeah, I pull a gun.

[Unknown]

The cigarette, on the other hand, I do.

[Tressa Smallwood]

I pull a gun. Look, you said I go straight into Mama Sin. Straight into her. Yeah, yeah. She's a. She's a. She's a. She's a colorful person. And so. And so even that, you know, I was a little nervous because there's a. There's a risk as an actress, and I talked to Tressa about this and the director when we were filming. There's a risk as an actress that people think, okay, where. Where is all this coming from? In AJ's portrayal, that's who she is. That's really who she is. So, I mean, when you look at the characters in this story that are real people, you get to see. Okay, this whole story is really colorful. I'll just say that you were gonna ask something.

[Unknown]

No, I was gonna say, what's the story that you wanna tell, Tressa?

[A.J. Johnson]

Ultimately, I think I want a Faith based or Faith based Adjacent project that will appeal to the masses and get stories told that people wouldn't ordinarily listen to because they hear Faith based and then they run.

[Tressa Smallwood]

What's Faith Based Adjacent?

[A.J. Johnson]

Faith Based Adjacent is. For example, I'm getting ready to shoot a movie that is a crime drama slash faith base, where it's a. It's a. It's a story about crime and activity that's going on. But then there's this devout Christian mother that has to make a decision where she's like, you know what? I believe in the Lord. However, you just mess with my child and we get ready to have a problem. So if you tell stories like that where people. It's real life, you know, because people think that being a Christian means I'm. I'm perfect. That's not what that means. And so I want to tell a story that will relate to the masses where they can see, oh, wow. Like, I can. I can have faith but still be human. I'm not perfect. Doesn't mean I have to do everything right. I want to tell a story like that and I want to do it in a big way with an excellent cast. And AJ's going to be my EP.

[Tressa Smallwood]

Yes.

[A.J. Johnson]

Charlamagne's going to invest. Lauren's going to be in the movie. Dj, what you doing? What's going to be your role?

[DJ Envy]

I do a little bit of everything. I can act, I can invest, I can do that.

[Unknown]

He can figure out the soundtrack and the sound.

[A.J. Johnson]

But you know what? Even though we're using this as an example, that is what.

[Tressa Smallwood]

And she's serious, by the way.

[Unknown]

I Was going to say that, oh, I'm definitely real. Oh, I know. But you do that in real life. Like, I don't think people understand how lit it is. Like, even with me, like, first time pitching a show, I got on the phone with her, and she was like, okay, so, yeah, that's. That's done. What else you want to do? And I was like. I had pitched to so many networks directly, and I talked to her, and she was like. And I was like, this is crazy, because it's like, it's another black woman, so she gets it. But you do. You've empowered so many people through that, and they're making real money. Like, yeah, that's another thing. Because when you independently do stuff, you don't see a return. But like, so many country Wayne, so many people are making money off of the projects you take to these networks as well. Like, I'm just.

[A.J. Johnson]

That is major vessel. And so what I like to do is go in the room, we figure out how we can work together, because that's the only way we're going to make it is if we collaborate. Everybody's out here trying to be cutthroat. Me, me, me. That's not how to win that. You can't do it that way.

[Tressa Smallwood]

Right. And they're expecting us to be cutthroat because they know we can't win that way.

[A.J. Johnson]

Yeah.

[Tressa Smallwood]

So we have to change it. And they're telling us a lot and loud that they're expecting us to act a certain way. And so it's up to us to change the narrative.

[Unknown]

So when she call y'all, answer the phone. Cause she gonna really call y'all. Trust me.

[Tressa Smallwood]

Yeah.

[A.J. Johnson]

What you just said, I'm dead.

[Tressa Smallwood]

Listen. And it don't take long with her.

[Unknown]

And what's this role preparing you for next?

[Tressa Smallwood]

Um, you know, I. I think it's. And this is interesting. After Baby Boy, I was offered the mama role. The mama role. 57. The mama role. 65. And I was. And I turned a lot of it down because I was using Baby Boy as critical acclaim, as an actress to do more action. That's really what I wanted to do. And so that didn't really happen. Not, I don't think, because of me. It's just that that genre, nobody was looking for a black action star at the time. And so now I realize that there is. What's the word? There's adoration. What'd you say?

[Unknown]

I said appetite.

[Tressa Smallwood]

Yeah, Appetite. Yeah, appetite. Adoration. Respect for what I bring to these roles. And so Now I'm looking at story. I'm looking for stories that can talk about our culture, whether it's the mama role or whether it's the teacher, something. But I'm just. I'm looking more for scripts where there's parts of our culture that aren't being displayed on screen. And not so much now. If I can wear hot pants and carry a gun, then I'm good with that, too. But. But, you know, I mean, I've always wanted to do Flo Jo Story.

[Unknown]

Ooh, I've been hearing about that forever.

[Tressa Smallwood]

Yeah. And. And so somebody had the right to it. I forgot who had it. Yeah.

[A.J. Johnson]

I can't remember.

[Tressa Smallwood]

We have to go back to that, because John Singleton and I were trying to do it right after Baby Boy, and then, you know, it just. His focus shifted and we just didn't get it done. But again, not even just the biopic of the athlete, but just the life of an athlete at that time. And what it took to be so great and to still be a woman and to be so courageous in her fashion, it's like what we know. You know, we see Serena doing it, we see other women doing it, but Flo Jo started it. And so I like those kind of stories of let's know where we come from. That's the other side. I like going back into our history so that people don't think it's just happening. You know, we got a bad history behind us. And I want to tell those stories, too.

[Unknown]

Yeah, it was, I think, Tiffany Haddish.

I feel like Tiffany Haddish. Yeah. Well, she was supposed to play.

She was starring and producing in a biopic about Flo Jo. I don't know what happened.

[A.J. Johnson]

And then I didn't hear anything else.

[Tressa Smallwood]

Probably because I'm supposed to do it.

[Unknown]

That was back in 2020.

[Tressa Smallwood]

Or me and Tiffany. Or me and Tiffany. I mean, again, it's collaboration. So, I mean, I don't know, but that's what I'm saying. I mean, I want to get that story done. She was very instrumental. Flo Jo, I mean, was very instrumental when I was little in my work ethic, you know, and just, you know, taking care of my body. And so, you know, my. My. My physical existence now is a large result of her. And so. Oh, for sure. You know, Gail Devers, they were to track greats then. And so now, because I ran track in high school, I pay attention to, like, you know, Sonia Richardson and. And there's the stars now. Yeah, Shakari. So what I see is it doesn't change. The work ethic doesn't change, the generations do. But there's a mind space and a work ethic that doesn't change. And that needs to be seen and taught more than just seeing them at the Olympics. So I'm looking for stories like that too.

[Unknown]

Question. Would you ever do a story about polygamy but being the woman who has.

[Tressa Smallwood]

Who dibbles in it?

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Tressa Smallwood]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Oh, you dabble. Dabbling, yeah. How is that?

[Tressa Smallwood]

Amazing. Ooh, amazing.

[Unknown]

But also Neo out here stealing your thunder.

[Tressa Smallwood]

Though.

[Unknown]

Neil think he the guy now?

[Tressa Smallwood]

Well, he, you know, listen, he can have the thunder. Cause he's doing it for a whole different reason. Let me say this since we're bringing it up. My space in it, honestly, is because since I've been exposed to different cultures and different religious and spirit practices around the world, my thing is, I haven't. I haven't found a lot of men in America who. Who are really appealing to me spiritually, physically, emotionally, mentally. So my thing is, I've got the athlete that I hang out with, I've got the spirit that I pray with. You know, I've got the person that's adventurous that I travel with. So it's more lifestyle than it is the sexual connection for me, it's. It's more like I'm not in a relationship, so I have more than one man I spend time with.

[Unknown]

So whatever you don't get over here, you could get here, here.

[Tressa Smallwood]

Now, my heart, my soul is actually monogamous, okay? But because I can't find that, I don't stop.

[Unknown]

Did. Did you decide to dibble. Dabble in polygamy after that breakup you mentioned that took you to Africa?

[Tressa Smallwood]

It's before that, before that, years ago. It was before that.

[Unknown]

Wow. Okay.

[Tressa Smallwood]

It was way before that. And so. And so me having a relationship after that was me trying monogamy again. And a large part of me was bored. You know, intellectually, I was bored again. I wanna travel the world. I wasn't finding a lot of African American men who are building their lives to do that. I even say now when I meet men, I say, you know, I carry five currencies on any given day. How many currencies do you have?

[Unknown]

God damn.

[Tressa Smallwood]

And that's not a flex. That shit is.

[A.J. Johnson]

But it's intimidating for sure.

[Tressa Smallwood]

See, here we go.

[A.J. Johnson]

It's intimidating.

[Tressa Smallwood]

Yeah, but I mean, think about in the pandemic when. When the American passport couldn't get us out of here, right?

[Unknown]

That's real.

[Tressa Smallwood]

I gotta leave you because I gotta I got another passport, I got other currencies. Even without the passport. I wasn't even a dual citizen until 2022. In 2020, I went to three different countries because I had cash. I was prepared, I tell you. I got the email, right? So I had cash in the currency. So I mean, again, this is just my life, right? It's not like I'm trying to say I don't want an American man. I'm just saying my, my international life, my global options take me into different cultures.

[DJ Envy]

And it would be cool if that man had the same. Just on the other side, if he had a woman for this, a woman for that, woman for that, and you for traveling.

[Tressa Smallwood]

As long as he's okay with me doing the same thing, we're gonna have fun.

[Unknown]

See, that's a story.

Yeah, I would love to hear about it.

Yeah, that's a story. Because I feel like there's so much things that we're not going to be taught because especially what's going on in this country as far as, you know, the book banning and all types of stuff. But I feel like those type of things we need to see how are we going to get exposed to other cultures.

[Tressa Smallwood]

That's what I'm saying. It's so interesting because, you know, when I started talking about it, the, the men got offended and all of a sudden I was the queen of running trains.

[DJ Envy]

The queen of running trains.

[Tressa Smallwood]

Choo, choo, whatever, right. And then the women were empowered because a lot of women were saying, you know, I want, I wanted to explore that, but I would been afraid to or I can't believe you're talking about it publicly. And I would say even in the background of it, it's not just a sexual experience. Right. That's what, that's what us as Americans think.

[Unknown]

That's the first thing I thought of.

[Tressa Smallwood]

Yeah, it's not. Yeah, it's not just a sexual experience. It's like I can be, I can be not even sexually active, but. But I'm still getting full from my spiritual partnership, my adventure partnership and my travel, my fitness partnership. You know, the guy I pray with may not want to hike. You see what I'm saying? And the guy that wants to hike and pray may not want to travel or can't. It doesn't mean I stopped my life.

[Unknown]

So Neo got a lot of flack. Not. Well, not a lot. But like, Neo has kids, right? And his, one of his kids mom came out about the way that I guess he's talking about his lifestyle so openly because of their kids. And, like, yeah. Then it started a whole conversation about, like, how do you explain this to your kids? Do you bring the people? Because there's multiple partners around the kids and, like, all of that. I know you have a son.

[Tressa Smallwood]

I don't.

[Unknown]

Oh, I don't have any kids. Oh, Google said you did.

[Tressa Smallwood]

Really?

[Unknown]

Yes. They gave me one son name and everything.

[Tressa Smallwood]

Has one son. Brantley. Who is that?

[DJ Envy]

Somebody about to come out.

[Unknown]

I follow your Instagram. I never seen post a kid, but I was like, let me double check.

[A.J. Johnson]

And I'm over here going, wait a minute.

[Unknown]

I thought you were a celebrity that kept your kid out of the spotlight.

[Tressa Smallwood]

Hello.

[Unknown]

I mean, this don't apply to you then. But how do you feel about that conversation? Because I'm sure you've had that conversation with your family members in general.

[Tressa Smallwood]

Well, I think this, you know, if you live an open and honest life, then there's nothing ever to hide. And so for me, I can't speak because I don't have kids, but I feel like there's a respectful way if that's a lifestyle. I feel the same way about, you know, a gay parenting with a kid. You know, if two gay men adopt or want to raise a kid or two gay women are raising a family, there's a way that that family is raised and trained to understand. And so even when that kid is going to school with heterosexual, other parents are having sleepovers, and there's a different way that they're being raised and taught what that lifestyle's like. So I don't know. I don't know much about Neo's thing. I'm not wild with mine. It's not something that I promote, because it's not about that. It's about me making sure that I'm full and what that means as a global woman.

[Unknown]

Global woman.

I know.

I hear.

[Tressa Smallwood]

I know. That's right.

[A.J. Johnson]

Listen again. She is intimidating.

[DJ Envy]

Okay, fellas, Lauren's thinking, like, now, like, how can I figure?

[Unknown]

That's the name of the movie Trust. A global woman.

[Tressa Smallwood]

A global woman. Yeah.

[DJ Envy]

I can have one in Delaware. I can have one in New York. I can have one in Philly.

[Unknown]

That is not what I'm saying.

[Tressa Smallwood]

So here. Here's a question. Here's a question real quick for you too. So I know. I know you have women, but how do you feel about that woman perspective? Would. Would you allow it?

[DJ Envy]

No.

[Tressa Smallwood]

Would you allow it?

[Unknown]

Allow. I don't know. What. How can you stop a woman from doing what she want to do?

[Tressa Smallwood]

But how do you Feel if you.

[Unknown]

Would you be comfortable, would you stay with your wife? I wouldn't. I mean, I would. I wouldn't personally, no.

[Tressa Smallwood]

Can you tell me why?

[DJ Envy]

I'm too insecure.

[Tressa Smallwood]

Okay, that's fair. That's fair.

[DJ Envy]

I want my woman.

[A.J. Johnson]

I'm glad that your woman.

[Tressa Smallwood]

I'm so proud of you.

[A.J. Johnson]

I like it.

[Tressa Smallwood]

Look at the eyebrows. Right, Right.

[Unknown]

It's for the same part of it is probably for what Envy said. But you wouldn't just say that out loud.

Most men, I guess we would have married 23.

[A.J. Johnson]

I've been married for 28.

[DJ Envy]

26.

[Tressa Smallwood]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

I've known my woman for 26 years. But I guess we would have to have the conversation, like, because you said you have all of these different guys for different things.

[Tressa Smallwood]

Right.

[Unknown]

So what is it that I'm not fulfilling?

[Tressa Smallwood]

Right.

[Unknown]

I think that conversation has to happen.

[Tressa Smallwood]

First to see what it is. See, I love that. But if it's something that you can't fulfill or you're not interested in, do you feel like she's supposed to acquiesce and compromise, or are there concessions? There's that compromise versus concession. My devotion. Or do you feel like there's concessions that can be made so that you're both happy and fulfilled?

[Unknown]

Tough, man. That's tough.

I do. Because I think if. If presented. If the other way. Presented the other way, if she. If your wives came to you and was like, hey, y'all, I think it'd be fun for us to try polygamy for, like, six months. What would y'all say?

[Tressa Smallwood]

Now it's hard.

[Unknown]

Because I'm not missing nothing. Like, I'm not.

[Tressa Smallwood]

Yeah. Now it's different. Now it's different relationship.

[DJ Envy]

What she want? Do she want hike.

[Tressa Smallwood]

A hike? You wanna pray?

[DJ Envy]

I pray. You wanna travel this?

[Unknown]

No, I mean, like, if Gia.

[DJ Envy]

I'm everything.

[A.J. Johnson]

No, no, no.

[Unknown]

If Gia said, I'm okay with you having. Hypothetically, I'm okay with us having three other wives.

[DJ Envy]

It's a trap. No, I wouldn't, like, make it a trap, but. Nah, I'm happy for what I have. I wouldn't want that. I wouldn't want, like, what Neil has to deal with. I wouldn't want to deal with that.

[Tressa Smallwood]

And let's be clear.

[Unknown]

Maybe a girlfriend.

[A.J. Johnson]

Don't get in trouble.

[Tressa Smallwood]

Don't get in trouble.

[A.J. Johnson]

Don't get in trouble.

[Unknown]

We can have a girlfriend.

[Tressa Smallwood]

No, the wife can have a girlfriend. I don't want the girlfriend. I want the boyfriend.

[Unknown]

Lauren brought it up, right?

[Tressa Smallwood]

I want the boyfriend. I want the girlfriend. So, so here's what's interesting.

[DJ Envy]

If your wife want a boyfriend, you cool with that?

[Tressa Smallwood]

No, he already said no.

[Unknown]

See, but that's, that's the, that's what I was trying to get into that, like, that standard of like, I think when Neo does it and people will have things to say, but it's like, oh, shoot, Neo. But when people hear you say it, it's like, what did you say they called you training something.

[Tressa Smallwood]

Oh, the guys. Yeah, that I was Queen of the Trains.

[Unknown]

Yeah, it's like, it's such a different.

I got a good title for the movie too.

[DJ Envy]

It's such a different Queen.

[Unknown]

Queen of the Trains.

[Tressa Smallwood]

Wait, watching that one?

[Unknown]

Yeah, the Double standard be crazy.

[Tressa Smallwood]

Listen, I still get comments. Oh, listen to the Queen of the Trains talking.

[A.J. Johnson]

Well, I have a movie with Neo and ever since that, everybody's like, hey, I watch. What's the name of that movie? And I said, it's nothing like that.

[Unknown]

What's the name of the movie?

[A.J. Johnson]

The name. It's called the Sound of Christmas. He's the lead in a Christmas movie. But when people realize it, you know, just because they're talking about Neo a lot now, they're like, yeah, we know Neo is in your movie. What's the name? And I was like, it's not like that.

[Tressa Smallwood]

What I was gonna say is the difference with them is you all have been in long term relationships. Mountains and valleys. Mountains and valleys. No relationship is perfect, of course. But you know, for me, I think it's also individual because I started my career so young that trying to find that kind of relationship in Hollywood. You know, I wanted it, I couldn't find it. You know, at that time, everybody that could have been a potential partner, we were all trying to get our foot in the door. And so whether it's athlete, producer, director, talent, it wasn't happening for me like that. But I still wanted my life, so it's not so much. I want to make sure it's clear even for the people listening. It's like, it's not like I'm just saying I want more than one man. That's why I said my heart and my soul is monogamous. But if I can't have that, then what do I do?

[A.J. Johnson]

That's fair. Like, until you get it. Yeah, because we found a couple of potentials for you, but then we had to boot them out.

[Unknown]

Is it tough because you're AJ like you. You are. They see you, it's like, oh, shoot. I watch now they ask you movie credits and Things behind the scenes that we don't know.

[Tressa Smallwood]

You know what? I'll tell you, it helps dating internationally because a lot of the international men don't know or they don't really care because they're of a certain financial status themselves, a certain social status themselves. And so I'm.

[Unknown]

I be hanging out.

[Tressa Smallwood]

Listen, we gotta travel, boo. We gotta travel. And so it's not important to their culture, you know?

[Unknown]

Gotcha.

[Tressa Smallwood]

And so, you know, they acknowledge it and they respect it, but we're not connecting on that level. We're connecting more on spiritual level, on what are we doing for the country, which is where I'm at in my own self.

[A.J. Johnson]

Go ahead.

[DJ Envy]

There you have it.

[Tressa Smallwood]

Trust.

[DJ Envy]

We appreciate y'all for joining us.

[Tressa Smallwood]

This was fun.

[Unknown]

Ain't no sun, ain't no son.

[DJ Envy]

And do not take Lauren with you.

[Unknown]

Please take Lauren with you.

[Tressa Smallwood]

She's single.

[DJ Envy]

She's single. She can't find somebody.

[Tressa Smallwood]

Look, Laura's looking at me with the jewel.

[A.J. Johnson]

Honey, thank you.

[Tressa Smallwood]

Oh, yeah, don't settle. That's my final statement. Whoever it is, don't settle. Be a woman with global options.

[Unknown]

It's crazy how she acting like she don't got options, though. You know, on Valentine's Day, three different guys send her flowers.

That's a lie. Charlemagne ordered the same flower.

[A.J. Johnson]

He did.

[Tressa Smallwood]

I know he does that.

[Unknown]

Three different guys sent her flowers on Valentine's Day.

That is not true.

[Tressa Smallwood]

It's the same guy from three different florists.

[Unknown]

No. Same floors. Three different flowers. You think all. All these guys that went to the same floors?

Maybe it was the one closest to him.

[DJ Envy]

That's it.

[Unknown]

He's lying.

[Tressa Smallwood]

I love him.

[Unknown]

First, I'm the Breakfast Club.

[DJ Envy]

Good morning, y'all.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Wake that ass up early in the morning.

[Tressa Smallwood]

The Breakfast Club.

[Unknown]

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[DJ Envy]

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[Unknown]

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[Tressa Smallwood]

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[Unknown]

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