INTERVIEW: Anita Kopacz Reveals Her 2nd Book, Connection To The Ancestors + More

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Breakfast Club – INTERVIEW: Anita Kopacz Reveals Her 2nd Book, Connection To The Ancestors + More

Release Date: January 22, 2025

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Introduction of Anita Kopacz and Her New Book

In the early moments of the episode ([02:24]), DJ Envy and Charlamagne tha God warmly welcome Anita Kopacz to The Breakfast Club, highlighting her latest work, The Wind on Her Tongue. This novel marks the second installment in her acclaimed Daughter of Three Waters trilogy.

Overview of The Wind on Her Tongue

Anita provides an insightful overview of her new book ([02:54]), explaining:

“The Wind on Her Tongue is about Oya, who is the daughter of Yemeya, whom our first novel, Shallow Waters, centers around. Oya is the goddess of the wind and storms, among many other things. Mainstream audiences might recognize her as Storm from X-Men, who is fashioned after Oya. She possesses the ability to change the weather and bring about transformation.”

Anita connects the release of her book to the transformative energy of the year nine in 2025, emphasizing themes of change and movement ([04:12]):

“This year is a number nine year. Which is change number. The end. This is a time of transformation, and it aligns perfectly with Oya’s energy.”

Folklore and Family Conversations in Black Communities

The conversation shifts to the challenges of discussing folklore within black families ([04:12]). Charlamagne tha God mentions:

"In black communities, we're not really allowed to talk about these, like, folklore that other communities and ethnicities can freely discuss."

Anita passionately responds ([04:42]):

“We've been told we can't learn about our history, our gods, and our stories. Who said it's demonic? It's us—who we are. Even if you're not practicing the religion, knowing our history is essential. More people are waking up because it's in us. At some point, some of us will remember and write it down, inspiring others.”

Anita’s Journey Into Writing and Connection to African Ancestry

DJ Envy delves into Anita’s motivations for exploring these themes ([06:36]):

“I felt like Oya was diving into me because I was curious… Yemeya watched over our ancestors as they came over on the slave ships. I felt so connected… I decided to write the book.”

Anita discusses discovering her Yoruba and Hausa ancestry through African ancestry services, reinforcing her intrinsic connection to Oya ([08:31]):

“I discovered my ancestry is Yoruba and Hausa. It was because it's in me.”

Parallels Between Oya and Elphaba from Wicked

Charlamagne tha God brings up Anita’s article in People magazine comparing Elphaba from Wicked to Oya ([08:33]):

“When I watched Wicked and saw Elphaba’s character, I realized she embodies Oya’s essence—powerful, misunderstood, and transformative.”

Anita reveals a fascinating connection ([10:06]):

“Elphaba is fashioned after Matilda Jocelyn Gage, who I portray as Tilly in my book. She was a suffragette, fought for black and indigenous rights, and was the first self-made millionaire woman before Madam C.J. Walker. I had no idea until after writing the article.”

The 16 Truths of Ifa

DJ Envy inquires about the 16 truths of Ifa ([10:40]). Anita explains ([10:44]):

“One of the most important truths is ‘know thyself.’ The Orishas represent different natural forces, and before understanding which Orisha guides you, you must connect deeply with yourself and your ancestors.”

Discovering Writing Despite Dyslexia

The conversation turns personal as DJ Envy asks about Anita’s path to writing ([12:00]). Anita shares her struggle with dyslexia and how a mandatory freshman English class ignited her passion for storytelling ([12:03], [12:50]):

“I was a math and science nerd at UC Berkeley. I didn’t think I could be a writer because I’m dyslexic. But in senior year, I took a freshman English class to graduate and fell in love with storytelling.”

She highlights the evolving literary landscape that now accommodates different ways of writing, allowing her to pursue her passion despite challenges.

Oya: Protector of Women Who Have Lost Children

Charlamagne Tha God brings up Anita’s dedication to Oya as a guardian for women who have experienced miscarriages and stillbirths ([14:29]). Anita elaborates ([14:52]):

“Oya helps with healing. She is the goddess of transformation, moving things so that healing can occur. During my ayahuasca and San Pedro ceremonies, my ancestors conveyed that many are dealing with child loss, and Oya aids in the healing process.”

She emphasizes the profound impact of acknowledging and healing from such traumas ([16:47]):

“If we hide our pain, it just grows. Oya helps us let go and heal.”

Black Woman Trope and Duality of Oya

Anita addresses the stereotype of the "angry black woman" and clarifies Oya’s true nature ([22:23]):

“Oya is not angry; she is powerful. People misinterpret her strength as anger because they can’t handle it.”

She draws parallels between hurricanes' destructive and unifying forces, highlighting how communities come together to rebuild after storms ([18:57]).

Anita’s Second Book and Future Projects

Charlamagne Tha God discusses the trilogy format of Anita’s work ([28:12]). Anita explains the title Daughter of Three Waters as a representation of Yemeya, Oshun, and herself ([29:02]):

“In Cuba, you typically have two Orishas on your head—a male and a female. I added Oya as the third, making it the Daughter of Three Waters.”

She hints at the third book’s focus on Oshun but keeps specific details under wraps ([29:06]).

Personal Insights: Dedications and Family Life

The hosts inquire about Anita’s dedications and personal life ([29:30]). Anita reflects on her introverted childhood and her evolving parenting style ([29:30]-[31:56]):

“I was very introverted as a child, always in my own magical world. With my children, I’m more like one of them. My daughter Sadie is into film, Tila is into singing and is writing songs for Shallow Waters: The Musical, and my son Mayan is into math and science. They embody different parts of me.”

Reclaiming Voodoo and African Spirituality

Anita discusses the demonization of African spirituality during slavery and its survival through integration with Catholicism ([32:18]):

“During slavery, Africans were forced to abandon their religions and languages. They demonized our spirituality, but it survived by integrating with Catholicism. For example, Yemeya is behind certain Catholic saints’ representations.”

She emphasizes the resilience and adaptation of African spiritual practices ([32:38]):

“What you resist persists. These spiritual practices survived because they adapted and continued despite persecution.”

Closing Remarks

Anita expresses profound gratitude for her publishing journey and the support from the hosts ([34:12]):

“I feel so grateful that you recognize the work and the stories that needed to be told. Deep, deep gratitude.”

The conversation concludes with promotions for Anita’s book launch event at Greenlight Bookstores in Brooklyn and her upcoming retreats focused on spiritual healing ([34:46]-[35:33]).

Notable Quotes

• Anita Kopacz ([04:42]): "White people… it's us. Who we are."
• Anita Kopacz ([10:06]): "Matilda Jocelyn Gage… she was fighting... a suffragette... the first self-made millionaire woman."
• Anita Kopacz ([22:23]): "Oya is not angry. She is just powerful."
• Anita Kopacz ([32:38]): "It switched all during slavery… they needed to keep us away from our religions… they demonized it…"

Conclusion

Anita Kopacz’s interview on The Breakfast Club offers a profound exploration of her literary work intertwined with deep cultural and spiritual insights. Her discussions on African ancestry, the reclamation of folklore, and the embodiment of powerful female deities like Oya provide listeners with a rich understanding of her creative and personal journey. Anita’s dedication to expanding the narrative of black folklore and spirituality underscores the importance of storytelling in healing and empowerment.

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Transcript

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[Charlamagne tha God]

Wake that ass up in the morning.

[DJ Envy]

The Breakfast Club morning everybody. It's DJ Envy. Just hilarious Charlemagne the guy. Lauren LaRosa filling in for Jess. And we got a Special guest in the building.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Yes, indeed.

[DJ Envy]

He's back with a new book out right now, the Wind on Her Tongue. Ladies and gentlemen, Anita Kopak. Welcome.

[Anita Kopak]

Thank you. Thank you. It is so awesome to be back here.

[Charlamagne tha God]

That's right. Book two of the Daughter of Three Waters trilogy.

[Anita Kopak]

Yes, yes, yes.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Tell us what the Wind on Her Tongue is all about, Anita.

[Anita Kopak]

So the wind on Her Tongue is about Oya, who is the daughter of Yemeya, whom our first novel, Shallow Waters, is about Yemeya. And so Oia is her daughter. And not only in my stories, but in the ancient parables and in the religion of the Yoruba people, the Ephah. And so Oya is the goddess of the wind and storms and so many other things. But I think one of the things that mainstream might know her as, like, Storm, the character in X Men, she is kind of fashioned after Oya. So Oya can, like, change the weather and bring. So this year, which is 2025, is a number nine year. That's right. Which is change number. Yes. The end. Right. This is the end. This is when there's a lot of transformation. Things are moving fast. And we can tell as soon as 2025 started, right? Like, what this year is. And so this is really the energy of Oya. And that was not on purpose that this book was coming out on a year nine.

[Co-host]

So in the opening of the book, it's not like that first chapter. I don't know if it's the foreword or the note, but you talk about how, like, in black communities, we're not really allowed to talk about these, like, folklore that other communities and other ethnicities are able to talk about. And it made me think about how, like, with your grandma, even with my grandma, certain things, she's like, turn that off. That's demonic, or that's not God, or. But then they have certain things that they lean into. How do you have those conversations with your family? Because you're putting this on the forefront. And I'm sure some of your family is like, girl, what are you doing?

[Anita Kopak]

Absolutely. And the thing is, is that I've had these conversations, like, way earlier, from the beginning, because I would be like, well, what do you mean? Like, we can't learn about our history. We can't learn about our, like, gods and goddesses, our parables. Right. Our stories. Why is it demonic? Who said it's demonic? We know who said it's demonic. Right. And so it's like, we've. I've definitely.

[Charlamagne tha God]

White people.

[Anita Kopak]

White people, yeah.

[Co-host]

My aunt's be saying it. But they got it.

[Anita Kopak]

But they got it from somewhere, right? They got it from somewhere because it's like, it's. It's where our ancestors are from. It's us. It's like, who we are. And so even if you're not gonna practice the religion, you know, like, it's like, oh, but can't we know our history? Like, why is it demonic to know our history, to know the stories and they know them. Like, if you think of, like, some of the hoodoo practices, it's like in our families, like, you know, if you're gonna beginning of the year, you wanna have black IPs, you know, like. Exactly. And so it's like, we're doing it, we're doing it, but, you know, there's just that fine line. But I think more and more people are waking up because it's in us. It's in us, and like, a part of it is our power remembering our power remembering who we are. And so there's not really any stopping. We can burn books. We can do whatever it is you. It's inside of us. It's inside of us. And at some point, some of us are gonna remember, Some of us are gonna write it down, right? And who knows who's gonna be inspired by this book, right? To create more things and remember more things.

[DJ Envy]

So what made you dive into all of this? I know you were here before, you briefly explained, but for people that this is their first time hearing, what made you dive into this part of it.

[Anita Kopak]

So to me, I felt like Oya. Not oya. Yemeya, like, dove into me because I was, I would say curious, but not, like, I wasn't practicing the religion or anything, but I had a lot of friends who were. And someone had told me that Yemeya watched over our ancestors as they came over on the slave ships. And I was just like, what? We had a black mermaid, like, watching over us, watching over the souls that jumped off. And I was like, what is this? I was like, I don't know these stories, and I'm a curious person. So I was like, I want to learn about this. And so as I was diving in, I just felt so connected. The more and more I learned, the more I felt like I woke up, the more I felt like I was going home. And I was like, what is this? And so at some point, I decided to write the book. And as I was writing the book, to me, it felt like for shallow waters, it felt like Yemeya was sitting at the edge of the bed telling me the story. And so there were things that I had to look up after to make sure that these are both historical fiction. And so the history part, I definitely had to, like, look up, make sure that it all made sense. And of course, you know, the publishers, they helped me with that as well, too, to keep me on point. But I would say I just felt such a calling to it. And then what was interesting was when Shallow Waters came out, African ancestry got a hold of me, and they're like, do you want to see, like, where your ancestry is from? I was like, yeah, actually, that would be kind of dope. And it is. It's Yoruba and Hausa. And so I was like, oh, it's because it was. It's in me.

[DJ Envy]

Gotcha.

[Anita Kopak]

That's why I felt so connected, you know?

[Charlamagne tha God]

You wrote an article for People magazine breaking down the parallels between Wicked's Elphaba. How's that? Pronounce her name.

[Anita Kopak]

Elphaba. Elphaba, yes.

[Charlamagne tha God]

And Oye. And how they defy the gravity of social norms and expectations.

[Anita Kopak]

Break that down. So when I watched Wicked and I saw Elphaba's character, I was like, oh, this is Oya, right? Like, how nobody understands her, how when she gets mad, this power comes out of her. She doesn't understand the power, and then someone else has to understand it first, you know, help her to, like, hone it. And there were so many things how she just stood up against the, like, societal norms, right, and was able to be herself. And she did have to go through her own journey and different relationships in order to do that. So Oya is very similar where she has this power within her of the storm and gathering up the energy of the nature and all of these things. And in the beginning, it just happens when she's mad, right? And I don't want to tell the story, but, you know, she learns about herself and about her powers. And what was really cool about what I found out after I wrote that article is that who Elphaba's character is fashioned after, which is Matilda Jocelyn Gage. That's Tilly in Shallow Waters.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Wow.

[Anita Kopak]

That's Matilda Jocelyn Gage. Like, when I was doing, like, the research and everything, and I was like, I like this woman. Like, she was, like. She was, like, fighting. She was a white woman. She was a suffragette. She fought for black and indigenous rights. She fought for even child slavery as far as, like, trafficking back then. She did so many things, and I was like, I like this woman. So I made her Tilly. And that's who Elphaba is fashioned after. Wow, I had no idea.

[DJ Envy]

Now you talk about the 16 truths. Break that down a little bit.

[Anita Kopak]

Oh, oh, listen. Okay. I put that onto my Instagram because I'm not a. I would say I don't know everything about ifa. Right. I know, like, one. Like one of the truths that is very important is know thyself, right? Like, really knowing yourself even before you find. What? Orisha. So the Orishas are like the. The energies that represent the different. The natural forces in the world. So this is. She's a storm weather. Yemaya was the ocean. Right. And so they're not necessarily gods and goddesses. I just. We just say that for the purpose here. Right? So they're more like spirits. And so even before you really know who's on your head, that's what they will say. Who's on your head? Like, what Orisha rules you? You have to know yourself. And so really connecting to yourself and your ancestors and what you were born for. And so that, you know, to me, would be one of, like, the most important truths in ifa.

[DJ Envy]

When you were growing up, did you know you wanted to be a writer?

[Anita Kopak]

Oh, my gosh.

[DJ Envy]

Cause you're into arts.

[Anita Kopak]

Let me tell you. Just, Just.

[DJ Envy]

Just scrolling. I see you a tap dancer. You're. You know, you do so much. Did you know that you wanted to be in the arts?

[Anita Kopak]

So I. I was a, like, math and science nerd. Like, I went to UC Berkeley. I went to UC Berkeley with my bestie, Reisha Rocks here. And she actually did my makeup.

[DJ Envy]

Okay.

[Anita Kopak]

So. And I did civil engineering. So I was very much like math science nerd. But I always love storytelling, and I am dyslexic, so I actually didn't think I could be a writer. Like, that wasn't really. Like. I was like, I can't spell shit. You know, Like, I'm like, fuck, that's.

[NPR Host]

All of us up here.

[Anita Kopak]

Yeah. Okay, good. And so I didn't think I could be a writer until my senior year. They were like, anita, if you don't take freshman English, you're not gonna graduate. And I was like, damn, I gotta take freshman.

[DJ Envy]

Freshman English.

[Co-host]

You got all the way through without doing it?

[Anita Kopak]

Yes. Cause I had, you know, I was doing crazy math classes, science, all of that, and they're like, you need to take freshman.

[DJ Envy]

You about to fail for freshman English.

[Anita Kopak]

You're not gonna graduate. And so I took the class, and I fell in love with it. I fell in love with the storytelling and all of that. And so I was like, actually, is this what I want to do? And I loved learning about the African diaspora, the different places within the diaspora, the people, how are we, how are we alike? How are we different? And what wakes up inside of us. Like, you can't really describe what wakes up inside of us when we learn more and more about our true ancestry. Cause it's like you're getting closer and closer to home, and there's these energies and people are like, you're glowing. What is that? And so I feel like that's kind of what happened. And once I hit that, I was like, oh, I'm a storyteller. I gotta figure this shit out. I gotta. And luckily, the world has turned into a place where I don't have to know how to spell.

[Charlamagne tha God]

I want you to go deeper into who Oye is, right? Because you dedicate the. To a lot of your friends who have experienced, you know, stillborn births and miscarriages. And Oye is an African goddess who watches over women who have had stillborns and miscarriages. So can you expound on that a little bit?

[Anita Kopak]

Yes. That just gave me chills. Because to know that there is an energy or a goddess out there that is watching over women who have lost children. So I've told you about my time when I went to Peru and I did ayahuasca and San Pedro, right? And so when I did San Pedro, my ancestors came to me.

[DJ Envy]

What's San Pedro?

[Anita Kopak]

So San Pedro is, I believe it's a cactus and it's a drug, I.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Guess, plant based medicine.

[Anita Kopak]

Plant based medicine.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Plant based medicine.

[Anita Kopak]

Plant medicine. And so you, you go into the space, like you just get deeper in touch with this, with the energies around. To me, it felt like I was more in touch with the invisible energies that are around. And so my ancestors came to me and they said, what is happening right now is that so many of us are dealing with the loss of children. Whether it was us or our ancestors down the line who had lost children, lost children through. Through death, through being taken away during slavery. So many people are suffering from that that we're trying to hold on to everything. So that's why people have clutter. That's why people think they have to keep things as if we can own anything ever, right? And so that's what the ancestors told me. And so then when I found out that Oya watches over women who had lost babies in any form, right? Like the stillbirths, miscarriages, even abortions, right? Like, it's like you've lost a child and she helps with the healing and she helps with, you know, getting us because she is the goddess of the storm. She's the goddess of transformation. So she moves things around so that if there is a healing like that that needs to happen, because that's such a deep wound. She comes and she blows the shit away so that you can heal.

[Co-host]

It's crazy because in your writing, a lot of times I can relate it to things like how you talked about like the black eyed peas and the fried chicken. And I'm like, oh, yeah, that's what they were doing. But with that, I couldn't relate it to anything. And I'm like, I don't think I've ever had a conversation in my family just about what happens if you have a miscarriage and how you feel. I don't even know. I'm sure it has happened, but I don't know any close family members that have ever talked to me about it.

[Anita Kopak]

Yeah, because people don't talk about it. And they definitely have, right? Like someone has. It's in all of our families, right. If it hasn't happened to you, it's like happened to someone who's close to you. And it's a lot of times people just go through it in silence, go to work right in a couple days and not be able to deal with it. And we know that if we hide things away, they just keep growing and growing and growing. And so it's so important to have a place and a way to heal from these things. And I'm also a spiritual psychologist. I. So I do deal with people in that way. As far as guiding people through trauma and things like that, I do it with the Goddess Wisdom Council. We have a retreat that's coming up in Costa Rica. So a lot of times I work with women who have experienced some form of sexual trauma. That's one of my things that I work with a lot. And what is interesting with that too is that it's not always directly. Like a woman can be like, oh my gosh, I don't remember anything happening to me, but I notice the way I act. It's as if something happened. So it could be something that she doesn't remember or it could be something that happened in her family line. Because if it did happen to her grandmother, right. Like she's passing it down. Like what's inside of us is what was in our ancestors. So we're seeing now.

[Co-host]

Can you break down the parallels that you make with Oya in the Black Woman trope? Angry black woman. And then you talk about duality too, because you talk about how like the hurricanes are like so strong and people hate them, but then after, sometimes they reveal beautiful things and people come together to get through them.

[Anita Kopak]

Yes, yes. So that was actually one of the things that came up for me with Oya a lot.

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[Anita Kopak]

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[Charlamagne tha God]

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[Anita Kopak]

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[Charlamagne tha God]

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[Anita Kopak]

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[NPR Host]

This is a daily news podcast and lately the news is about a big question. How much? How much can one guy change?

[Political Commentator]

They want change.

[NPR Host]

What will change look like for energy?

[Political Commentator]

Drill baby Drill schools? Take the Department of Education. Close it. Health care better and less expensive.

[NPR Host]

Follow coverage of a changing country.

[Political Commentator]

Promises made, promises kept.

[NPR Host]

We're going to keep our promises on.

Consider this from NPR listen on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Anita Kopak]

I was actually kind of afraid at first to write about her because I was like, oh, Oya scares me a little bit. She's a beast. She's an unbeatable warrior. Like, that's who she is. She's an unbeatable warrior. Like, like, don't fuck with her. And I was like, I'm a little bit scared to write about Oya. And then when I started, like learning about her and writing about her and listening to her, I was like, oh shit, it's like the angry black woman. Like people being afraid of the angry black woman. I was like, she's not angry. She's just powerful. And just because you can't handle it, right? Just because they, you know, just because I couldn't handle it, right? Like, from, from what I thought about her, it was like, no, she is just powerful. And I think it's that misunderstanding that people misunderstand that like a black person, a black woman, is just saying what she needs. Oh, she's angry, right? She's just telling people that she doesn't like something. Oh, she's angry. And we know other people say that they don't like things all the time.

[Charlamagne tha God]

White people, especially white men.

[Anita Kopak]

Exactly.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Do you think that these goddesses possess you when you're writing like do they, are they like guiding you? Like, hey, I need you to tell this story about me.

[Anita Kopak]

So I gotta tell you something because yes, I had an experience like that, so I didn't necessarily feel like that. So with Yeme, I felt like she was sitting at the edge of my bed, right, Telling me with Oya. I wasn't sure. I couldn't quite. I didn't feel like I was possessed. But at the end when I finished writing, after I wrote the last word, I was like, let me go downstairs, I put on some music and I started dancing and all of a sudden I just started bawling, crying. And it felt like she was coming out of me. Like it was just like. And I don't know where these tears were coming from. It was just like. And I was just like, oh my gosh, was she. I didn't, it didn't feel like it. I don't know, I don't know what it feels like to be possessed, but it didn't feel like it in that way. But it did feel like I was definitely guided. She was telling me the story, she was telling me who needed to be in it. You know, some of the characters. I love to work with historical figures, so like Marie Laveau and Mary Ellen Pleasant. So Ellen is named Ellen. Mary Ellen Pleasant is Ellen in the book because sometimes she was. People called her Ellen or Mammy Pleasant. But anyway, when I was looking up Mary Ellen Pleasant, I was like, who is this woman? How come I don't know about her? Before Madam C.J. walker, she was the first self made millionaire woman. And this is not just black women, it's women. She's the first one before Madam C.J. walker. And I was like, how come I didn't learn about her? Well, it's because she was a voodoo queen. So they don't want to teach that in school. She was also a madam. That's not how she made like most of her money. But she, she found co founded bank of California which is now Wells Fargo. She's like, did so many things invested in like in, in gold, silver, a lot of real estate. And the thing is while she was doing this because of the time she was pretending that she was a mammy. So she was pretending that she was the help, right? So she would dress up like the help. She had a 30 room mansion. When people came by, she would pretend she was the help and then she would like serve the white men would be talking about the investments they're making and she would take that and go do her inside training.

[Charlamagne tha God]

She was like the spook who sat by the door in a lot of ways. Yeah, yeah.

[Anita Kopak]

And so she was amazing. And I was like, why? How come I don't know about her? And so when I was studying about her, I saw that she studied under Marie Laveau. And so that's kind of where I got all of the characters and Marie Laveau. Oh, my gosh. When I went to New Orleans to learn more about her, I had a tour guide, and he was like, so what do you guys think when I say voodoo? And we're like, okay, African religion, you know, honoring ancestors. And he was like, oh. Oh, thank God. I don't have to, like, you know, break down what it is. Because he's like, most people, you say voodoo, they're like dark magic, you know, evil, like all this stuff.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Well, I'm from South Carolina. We say roots.

[Anita Kopak]

Yeah, roots.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Roots on you.

[Anita Kopak]

Yes, exactly. Right. And so when I learned about her through his eyes, you know, she's a healer, right? She's. Most of the people who have actually met her and talked about her, they were saying how she helped them and how she was a healer. And then, you know, in stories and in pop culture, she's still, like, seen as, like, a voodoo queen who drank baby's blood. But none of that. I mean, as far as I know, none of that happened.

[Charlamagne tha God]

When I read Shallow Waters, you know, four or five years ago, whenever it was, I didn't know it was going to end up being a. A trilogy. Did you know that?

[Anita Kopak]

I didn't know either. Okay, but listen, people kept going, it's a trilogy. And I was like, no, no, it's done. The story finished. It's done.

[Charlamagne tha God]

People said that to you?

[Anita Kopak]

People? So many people. They're like, it's a trilogy. It's a trilogy. Did you say that to me? I don't remember.

[Charlamagne tha God]

But I wonder why a trilogy? I wonder what?

[Anita Kopak]

I don't know. Why doesn't it keep going on so well? The daughter of three waters. Let me tell you where that comes from, because in Cuba, usually you have just the two orishas on your head, a male and a female. And so that would be who, like, kind of rules you or rules kind of the energies of your life. And they have one thing in Cuba where if it feels like you have Yemeya and Oshun, they'll say, oh, that's a daughter of two waters. Because you can have that in Cuba. Everywhere else, they don't really have that. And so I was like, oh, well, Olla feels like water for me too, so that's why I made that up. Daughter of Three Waters so do you.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Know what the third installment is gonna be about?

[Anita Kopak]

I do.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Oh, okay. It's already came to you?

[Anita Kopak]

I do.

[DJ Envy]

You gonna share it or.

[Anita Kopak]

Not yet. I mean, it's. Most people probably will figure out that it is Oshun, so it will be Oshun. And I do have the story, but I haven't.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Is Oshun sitting on the edge of your bed or have you?

[Anita Kopak]

She is. She is. Wait, okay, wait. I'm trying to think if I should be sharing this yet. Probably not.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Okay, let's focus on the wind on our tongue then. It's out right now. You said something in your dedications that I found interesting, too. You said. You said to your mom, dad and sisters for putting up with you as a child. Then you shouted out your children for putting up with you as an adult. Is there anything from your childhood that you have bought with you into adulthood that made you say, I can't imagine adulthood and parenthood?

[Co-host]

I wasn't like this as a child.

[Anita Kopak]

I was definitely like this as a child. I mean, I was very introverted, though. I was quiet, but I was very much in my own world, like in this magical world all the time. And for my kids, I'm kind of more like one of the kids. It's not necessarily how I thought I would adult. I thought I was gonna be a little bit more strict. My mom, she's amazing, but she was definitely strict with us as well. Mom, I love you. That's. She's amazing. But, you know, I couldn't fuck around, right? I thought I was gonna be like that. And, you know, I tried to be stricted for one second and to see like, like my kid, the way they responded to it, I was like, nope.

[DJ Envy]

They don't take you serious, huh?

[Anita Kopak]

No, they don't take you serious.

[Co-host]

Are they artists as well?

[Anita Kopak]

They are. Well, my two girls are. And then my son is math, science.

[Co-host]

Got you.

[Anita Kopak]

Yeah, yeah. And my oldest one, Sadie, she's 20. She's at NYU. She's like, doing film. And then Tila is a senior in high school and really into singing. She's actually.

[Co-host]

Yo.

[Anita Kopak]

Which I gotta talk to you about. She is writing the songs for Shallow Waters, the musical. And I like. She came in, you know, I was like 17 year old. I was like, okay, yeah. She's like, I have a song that I want to sing to you. I had chills. I was like, oh, let's do it. Lin Manuel, where are you?

[Charlamagne tha God]

So you want Shallow Water to be a musical?

[Anita Kopak]

No. When she sang the Things, I was like, yo, yo, you don't even know. I was like, okay, we're doing this. Let me find Lin Manuel. So she's into, definitely into the arts. And then my son Mayan is math, science. He told me he can't imagine a world where he's not figuring something out, like, math wise. So they're all like parts of me, right? Like, yeah.

[Charlamagne tha God]

But, you know, it's interesting because when you talk about these books being filmed, if you've ever read Shallow Waters, if you read the Wind on Her Tongue, you're going to feel like you're, you know, watching a motion picture. Like, that's how much this stuff pops out, you know, on the page. So I know that's the next evolution of these stories. Yeah, they're going to be on the big screen or the small screen. They're going to be on the screen.

[Anita Kopak]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Co-host]

Going back real quick to something you said about voodoo. What point in the world did that? Because, like, even when you're talking about it, I'm like, ooh, saying this word so much is like a. No, no. Especially around, like, your older, older people. When did it switch from, like, these people were healers roots to this is bad, Stay away from it. You're possessed and you can't watch scary movies. Like, when did that switch?

[Anita Kopak]

So that switched all during slavery when, when the, the Africans were enslaved. So they needed to keep us away from our religions. They needed to keep us away from our spirituality, from our language. And so in order to do that, they demonized it. And not only that, if you practice it, a lot of people were killed or beaten. And so all of these things were just kind of like, I guess beaten into us, right? And then there was a point where the fact that it survived, right, like what you resist persists, right? Like you can't beat shit out of people. It just doesn't work. Like, the more you try to do that, the more the person becomes stronger in that. And so it's like these spirituality, the religion, all of these things survived these times. And a lot of times they kind of hid it behind Catholicism. Because Catholicism works with saints, right? And so each candle, right, like, would be a certain saint, but they'd be like, oh, yeah, but this is actually Yemeya behind this saint. And so they were able to work with their religion through Catholicism.

[DJ Envy]

All right, well, the new book, the Wind on Her Tongue is out right now. Make sure you Pick it up.

[Charlamagne tha God]

It's available via Black Privilege, Simon and Schuster Publishing.

[Political Commentator]

Man.

[Charlamagne tha God]

And you know, Anita, how do you feel for your second book? You know, you wrote Shallow Waters. How does this feel to have another book published?

[Anita Kopak]

It feels so good. Like, I feel so grateful to you, like the fact that you saw me, you recognize me, you recognize the work, you recognize the words that needed to be out there, the stories that needed to be out there. I feel so grateful that I'm able to get these stories out into the public. And I would say that's how I feel. Deep, deep gratitude.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Well, if you're looking for some escapism rooted in some realism, the Wind on Her Tongue by Anita Kopaks is available right now everywhere you buy books. And the audiobook is read by your sister.

[Anita Kopak]

It is.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Oh, I was listening to it this morning.

[Anita Kopak]

This audiobook is read by my sister, Michelle Kopach. And also shout out to Yadi for bringing us together.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Salute to Yachty.

[Anita Kopak]

And she wanted to try to come to, but she wasn't able to. So.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Yes, and tonight we will be at Greenlight bookstores. Yes, 7:30pm it's on Fulton street in Brooklyn. Yes. Yes, it's on Fulton Street. So we'll be there tonight at 7:30pm having a conversation about the wind on her tongue. So we'll see y'all there tonight.

[DJ Envy]

All right.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Yes, Greenlight bookstore in Brooklyn, 7:30pm Pick.

[DJ Envy]

Up the book now. And we appreciate you for joining us this morning. It's Nita Kopax. The Breakfast Club. Good morning.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Wake that ass up early in the morning. The Breakfast Club.

[NPR Host]

The new year is here and I'm trying to keep things simple this year. One thing to help me keep things simple is Amazon Prime. It's a cheat code to stay in, locked in on whatever you need. It's not just fast delivery. Prime's a whole experience. From Prime Video and Amazon Music to Prime free one day delivery. It's got everything to keep my year stress free. Watching Thursday Night Football. Prime's got you with the same day snack delivery. Want to chill after the game? Find a movie on Prime Video and kick back with some Amazon music. Whatever you're into, it's on Prime. Visit Amazon.comprime now.

Consider this is a daily news podcast. And lately the news is about a big question. How much can one guy change?

[Political Commentator]

They want change.

[NPR Host]

What will change look like for energy?

[Political Commentator]

Drill baby.

[Anita Kopak]

Drill schools.

[Political Commentator]

Take the Department of Education. Close it. Health care better and less expensive.

[NPR Host]

Follow coverage of a changing country.

[Political Commentator]

Promises made, promises kept.

[NPR Host]

We're gonna keep our promises on Consider this from NPR listen on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jon Stewart]

Catch Jon Stewart back in action on the Daily show and in your ears with the Daily Show Ears Edition podcast. From his hilarious satirical takes on today's politics and entertainment to the unique voices of correspondents and contributors, it's your perfect companion to stay on top of what's happening now. Plus, you'll get special content just for podcast listeners, like in depth interviews and a roundup of the week's top headlines. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Tisha Allen]

You are cordially invited to the hottest party in professional sports. I'm Tisha Allen, former golf professional and the host of welcome to the Party, your newest obsession about the wonderful world that is women's golf. Featuring interviews with top players on tour, tips to help improve your swing, and the craziest stories to come out of your friendly neighborhood country club. Welcome to the Party with Tisha Allen is an iHeart woman's fourth production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. Listen to welcome to the Party that's P A R T E e on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast.