INTERVIEW: Bien On Growing Up In Kenya, Breaking East African Stereotypes, Marrying His Manager, New Album + More

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Breakfast Club – INTERVIEW: Bien On Growing Up In Kenya, Breaking East African Stereotypes, Marrying His Manager, New Album + More

Podcast Information:

• Title: The Breakfast Club
• Host: DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, and Charlamagne Tha God
• Guest: Bien (also referred to as Pepe)
• Episode Title: INTERVIEW: Bien On Growing Up In Kenya, Breaking East African Stereotypes, Marrying His Manager, New Album + More
• Release Date: May 26, 2025

---

1. Introduction to Bien's Success and Current Tour

The episode kicks off with DJ Envy enthusiastically introducing Bien, also known as Pepe, highlighting his recent achievements.

• [02:15] Pepe: “I'm doing great. I'm having an amazing time in New York. Just sold out the shows the other night and so now I'm in the Best of the Breakfast Club. So this is a big deal for me, guys.”

Bien shares his excitement about his ongoing tour, emphasizing the sell-out performances across multiple states.

• [02:28] Pepe: “Yes, I'm on tour currently. I'm doing 10 states and I just played New York two nights ago, playing Atlanta tomorrow and we're sold out everywhere.”

---

2. Album Discussion: "Alusa" and Its Significance

The conversation transitions to Bien's latest album, "Alusa," delving into its meaning and the artistic choices he made.

• [02:44] Pepe: “Alusa. Yes. Alusa as my name is known in my village. So, Alusa, why are you topless?”

When questioned about his unique stage presence, Bien explains his choice to embody freedom and audacity through his appearance.

• [02:52] Pepe: “But being topless is freedom. Being topless is audacity. And in this phase of my career and where I'm at right now, I need that audacity to be with me every day.”

Despite playful banter from the hosts, Bien maintains that his styling is a reflection of his artistic freedom and confidence.

---

3. Transition from Boy Band to Solo Artist

Bien provides insight into his musical journey, from being part of a boy band to establishing himself as a solo artist.

• [06:09] Pepe: “So previously in my other life, I was in a band. I was in a boy band and the band was called Saudi Soul. Saudi Soul means in Swahili, voices of the sun.”

After a 20-year hiatus, Bien and his bandmates decided to explore solo careers to bring fresh perspectives to their music.

• [06:37] Pepe: “Just trying something new, you know, after doing something for a long time, I think it was time for us to try and see what the other side looks like. And it's been beautiful so far.”

Bien highlights that his bandmates are still actively creating music, supporting each other’s endeavors.

• [07:05] Pepe: “They're making music. They're doing interesting things. My brother Polycup just launched his guitar Jawah, which is an amazing guitar...”

---

4. Breaking East African Stereotypes in the Music Industry

A significant portion of the discussion focuses on the challenges and efforts to elevate East African music in the global arena.

• [07:30] Pepe: “There’s many aspects to it, including the fact that it's just never been funded. Any music that you hear in the west is marketing dollars spent to get that music there. So for a long time, East Africa hasn't had that limelight.”

Bien contrasts the success of Nigerian artists in the diaspora with the underrepresentation of East African musicians.

• [08:02] Pepe: “Being the biggest artist in Kenya is nowhere close. Being the biggest artist in the US when you win in the US you win in the world.”

He emphasizes the need for East African artists to secure a foothold in the U.S. market to achieve global recognition.

---

5. Early Life and Musical Inspiration in Kenya

Bien shares his upbringing in Kenya and the foundational experiences that shaped his passion for music.

• [08:37] Pepe: “Yes. I was like, maybe five or six. I was watching Bob Marley's song Iron Lion Zion, and that's the first time I was like, wow, what is this? Like, I feel like doing this thing.”

Joining the church choir provided Bien with a platform to hone his musical talents, which he credits as essential to his development.

• [08:56] Pepe: “I joined the choir in church. And I always say the church is the best artist development program in the world because that's where all the great musicians, especially for black music, come from.”

---

6. Overcoming Cultural Expectations and Pursuing Music

Navigating familial and societal expectations, Bien discusses his commitment to music despite potential pushback.

• [09:19] Pepe: “My mom said, as long as you finish school, as long as you finish college, you can do whatever you want. And music has been a kind master to me.”

Balancing education and passion, Bien managed to fund his studies through his early music career.

• [09:41] Pepe: “Music paid me through college. I put on my first single with Saudi Soul when I was a freshman. And just like that, my life changed.”

---

7. Aspirations to Collaborate with American Artists

Bien expresses his desire to collaborate with prominent American musicians, citing inspirations and potential partnerships.

• [10:42] Jess: “Have you ever had any big dreams of working with any American artists?”

• [10:46] Pepe: “Yes. Tons of them. I'm a big fan of, of course, Beyonce. I think her excellence is everything... I love Coco Jones... Two Chains... Anybody who's willing to work, I'm willing to work with as well.”

Such collaborations are seen as pivotal for bridging East African music with the mainstream Western audience.

---

8. Cultural Influences and Authenticity in Music

Bien emphasizes the importance of maintaining his Kenyan identity and cultural influences within his music.

• [11:24] Pepe: “Growing up in Kenya is beautiful because we are situated in a part of Africa that is very cosmopolitan. So we get American influence. We also get Arabian influence... I am the most Kenyan man you're ever gonna meet in your life.”

He asserts that authenticity is key to his artistry, resisting the urge to conform to mainstream expectations.

• [11:58] Pepe: “Every time I try conforming, I feel miserably, so I don't try anymore. And also, I've been in the game for so long right now, and I don't have the pressure to please anybody, so I'm just doing me.”

---

9. Challenges Facing East African Artists

The conversation delves into the structural and financial challenges hindering East African musicians from gaining global prominence.

• [12:39] Pepe: “A little bit of conforming without losing yourself in the process and selling out isn't bad.”

He discusses the delicate balance between staying true to his roots and adapting to global market demands.

• [13:00] Pepe: “I know you love Afrobeats. You've been pushing us for a minute. All of you, by the way, have.”

Bien encourages American artists to explore and embrace the rich, diverse sounds of the African continent.

• [13:56] Pepe: “I haven't seen an American artist blow in Kenya, like in my village, the same way 50 Cent did eons ago...”

---

10. The Impact of 50 Cent and Current Trends in African Music

Reflecting on past influences, Bien credits 50 Cent's authenticity and musical impact as a benchmark for success.

• [14:03] Pepe: “50 is just that. He's 50.”

Contrasting the past with present trends, Bien notes a lack of similar influential figures in the current East African music scene.

• [14:17] DJ Envy: “Kids were mimicking back then, bro.”

---

11. Personal Life: Marriage to His Manager

Bien opens up about his personal life, specifically his marriage to Chiki Zaruka, who also manages his career.

• [17:12] Pepe: “She's also my manager. It's beautiful. It's been by far the most rewarding experience of my life.”

Their partnership is portrayed as mutually supportive, blending personal and professional lives seamlessly.

• [17:21] Pepe: “We've been together 11 years and she managed me for only the last two years. During that entire time, we were just husband and wife.”

---

12. Addressing Polygamy and Cultural Traditions

The hosts engage Bien in a discussion about polygamy, reflecting on its cultural significance and personal choices.

• [27:12] Pepe: “Constitutionally, in Kenya, you're allowed. Do I want another wife? No. I don't got you. Yeah. Not now.”

Bien shares insights into his polygamous upbringing, emphasizing the societal and economic reasons behind the tradition.

• [27:35] Pepe: “I come from a polygamous family. My dad has 10 kids from 6 different women.”

He advocates for understanding polygamy beyond Western perceptions, highlighting its communal benefits in certain contexts.

---

13. Future Projects and Invitations

Bien discusses upcoming projects, including his new album "Alusa Continua" and plans to shoot music videos.

• [22:10] Pepe: “I have a new album coming out soon titled Alusa Continua.”

He also extends an invitation to the hosts and listeners to visit Kenya, showcasing his pride in his homeland.

• [32:07] Pepe: “I welcome you guys to Kenya. If you guys ever land in Kenya.”

---

14. The Potential Africa Grammys and Economic Considerations

The topic shifts to the Grammys' bid to host an Africa edition in Kenya, exploring its potential impact and economic implications.

• [22:38] Pepe: “The Grammys are doing an Africa Grammys, like the same way we have the Latin Grammys...”

He acknowledges the controversy surrounding the financial aspects but remains hopeful about its long-term benefits for the music industry in Kenya.

• [23:44] Pepe: “Because I'm an artist and I understand what it's going to do for my constituency for my people.”

---

15. Reflections on Kenyan Society and Future Outlook

Bien shares his observations on the current state of Kenya, expressing both concerns and optimism for the future.

• [24:45] Pepe: “I think it's important for us to know that... I have more faith in the children who are coming than their leadership in terms of the power they used to oppress.”

He underscores the resilience and fighting spirit of Kenyans, reaffirming his belief in the nation's potential.

• [26:10] Pepe: “Kenyans are fighters. Africans are fighters. And the people of Africa will keep the lights on.”

---

16. Closing Remarks and Fan Engagement

The episode wraps up with Bien engaging in light-hearted interactions with the hosts, sharing promotional memorabilia and reinforcing his connection with the audience.

• [32:53] Pepe: “Man. But, you know, I took it with stride. It's become my thing now.”

He directs listeners to his Instagram for tour details and upcoming projects.

• [34:17] Pepe: “You can go on my Instagram... There's a link for the tickets. I'm playing Ohio next. I'm playing Atlanta next. I'm sold out in pretty much every place.”

---

Notable Quotes:

1. On Musical Authenticity:

   • [11:28] Pepe: “I am the most Kenyan man you're ever gonna meet in your life. My isms, my accent, my music, my sound is deliberately from that.”

2. On Overcoming Conformity:

   • [11:58] Pepe: “Every time I try conforming, I feel miserably, so I don't try anymore.”

3. On the Importance of the Africa Grammys:

   • [23:44] Pepe: “Because I'm an artist and I understand what it's going to do for my constituency for my people.”

4. On Kenyan Resilience:

   • [26:20] Pepe: “Kenyans are fighters. Africans are fighters. And the people of Africa will keep the lights on.”

---

Conclusion

In this engaging episode of The Breakfast Club, Bien provides a comprehensive look into his life as an East African artist navigating the complexities of the global music industry. From his roots in Kenya and the cultural influences that shape his music to the personal dynamics of marrying his manager, Bien offers listeners an intimate glimpse into his journey. He passionately discusses the hurdles faced by East African musicians, the importance of maintaining cultural authenticity, and his aspirations to elevate his region's presence in the mainstream music scene. Throughout the conversation, Bien's dedication to his craft and his unwavering pride in his heritage shine through, making this episode a compelling listen for anyone interested in the intersection of culture and music.

Transcript

[Pepe]

You're listening to an iHeart podcast.

[DJ Envy]

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[Pepe]

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[DJ Envy]

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[Charlamagne Tha God]

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[Just Hilarious]

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[DJ Envy]

The Breakfast Club Morning everybody. It's DJ Envy. Just hilarious. Charlamagne Tha God. We are the Breakfast Club. We got a special guest in the building.

[Just Hilarious]

Yes indeed.

[DJ Envy]

Bien. Welcome Pepe Pepe.

[Pepe]

Thank you so much for having me. Guys.

[DJ Envy]

How you Doing, bro.

[Pepe]

Thank you. I'm doing great. I'm having an amazing time in New York. Just sold out the sobs the other night and so now I'm in the Best of the Breakfast Club. So this is a big deal for me, guys.

[Just Hilarious]

You just launched a tour, right?

[Pepe]

Yes, I'm on tour currently. I'm doing 10 states and I just played New York two nights ago, playing Atlanta tomorrow and we're sold out everywhere.

[DJ Envy]

Oh, that's dope. Congratulations.

[Pepe]

Super blessed. Thank you, thank you.

[Just Hilarious]

And the album is called. Let me see if I'm pronouncing this right. Elusa.

[Pepe]

Alusa. Yes. I lose as my name as known in my village. So, Alusa, why are you topless?

[Jess]

So you don't have no shirt on most of the time.

[Pepe]

Yeah.

[Just Hilarious]

You be out there showing titties usually.

[Pepe]

But I had to buy. Yes, I'm showing titties. I'm showing some stomach, you know, some back. Yeah. But being topless is freedom. Being topless is audacity. And in this phase of my career and where I'm at right now, I need that audacity to be with me every day.

[Just Hilarious]

Is that really audacity to be topless? If you walk around with no pants on, dick swinging, that's audacity. Just the shirt off everybody.

[Pepe]

You know, when you get home, like if you're a girl, when you get home, the first thing you do, you. And hook your bra.

[Jess]

Yeah.

[Pepe]

And that's part of the freedom I'm talking about. Being topless is not.

[Just Hilarious]

What do you identify as.

[Pepe]

A black man?

[Just Hilarious]

No, I'm just saying.

[Pepe]

You said as a girl.

[Just Hilarious]

I don't know.

[Pepe]

Just give it an analogy.

[Jess]

Yes, exactly. Oh my God.

[Just Hilarious]

No, but that's a different though. Cuz when I get it, when women get home and they take that bra off, they.

[Pepe]

What about you? Like when you get home and maybe if you're in Miami. No, if in Miami, if you're in a sunny place and a humid place and you take off your shirt. That's freedom, man.

[Jess]

Yes.

[Pepe]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Just Hilarious]

And basketball shorts. No draws.

[Jess]

You're not talking about.

[Pepe]

Not so much.

[Just Hilarious]

Come on.

[Pepe]

Now you're gonna be pushing this no draws agenda.

[DJ Envy]

Yes.

[Just Hilarious]

Not an agenda.

[Jess]

The name of Charlemagne.

[Pepe]

Why are you gay?

[Unknown]

Why?

[Jess]

Yes.

[Pepe]

Shout out my neighbors. Uganda for that. Those are my next door neighbors.

[Jess]

Yeah.

[DJ Envy]

Now you did rap. I was gonna say you. You did rap radar the other day.

[Pepe]

Yes, I did.

[DJ Envy]

And you came with something different that I don't think any rap radar guest has ever done rap radar.

[Pepe]

Still doing abuse? No.

[DJ Envy]

On the radar, lots of rap.

[Just Hilarious]

How about to say, oh, on the radar. The game on the radar.

[DJ Envy]

Yes. You came with a chicken.

[Pepe]

Yeah, I came with the chicken. I would have come with the chicken here, but there's too many rules and you guys are really on the top floor. So I wasn't able to smuggle my mascot into the building.

[Jess]

I know, that's right.

[Pepe]

Yeah. But you know why a chicken? A chicken is my cultural totem. Like the animal that represents my culture is a rooster. And it's because a rooster is a timekeeper. A rooster is a caregiver. A rooster is a security for your home. A rooster is many things, including a good meal. So that's why I walk around with. That's why I walk around with.

[DJ Envy]

Where did you get this chicken from? Where did you get the chicken from? I know you didn't.

[Pepe]

I didn't know the animal laws in New York. I had to drive all the way to Pennsylvania. Like I had to get a chicken. Yeah. To get a chicken. The Queensland, they wouldn't sell it to me in Queens. Nobody would give me a live chicken in New York because it's against the law. So I had to go all the way to Pennsylvania, cross state lines to look for the chicken. But yeah, I think it's about the.

[Just Hilarious]

Wording because, you know, in America, I don't know, y' all don't know if y' all say this in Kenya, America, they say. So you have to say I want to bring my cock to the interview.

[Pepe]

Yeah, just me and my. Yeah, me and my cock.

[Just Hilarious]

Yeah, me and my cock.

[Pepe]

I was stroking my cockpit like the whole time.

[Just Hilarious]

And if you say you eating your. You really might get invited chicken.

[Pepe]

I, I, I give, I give, I give my. To my driver and he took it to an animal like home animal shelter. So he's alive.

[DJ Envy]

Your alive.

[Pepe]

Okay. Yeah, my alive.

[Jess]

I don't know why you wanted to.

[Pepe]

Come here in the morning. I needed to be here. I needed to be here today. Thank you.

[DJ Envy]

I'm try, I'm trying to be professional, but you guys are crazy.

[Jess]

So this is a freedom album, basically, you know, because it's a looser. Why are you top as you?

[Pepe]

So previously in my other life, I was in a band. I was in a boy band and the, the band was called Saudi Soul. Saudi Soul and it means in Swahili, voices of the sun.

[DJ Envy]

Okay.

[Pepe]

Yeah. So I was in a boy band and this is my second like lease of life. So now I'm a solo artist. I've been a solo artist for two years now, and everything's looking up. I'm at the Breakfast Club. Mama, I made it.

[Jess]

Nice. Why does Saudi soul take such a long hiatus for music? Y' all. Y' all last. The last time we came together, 20 years.

[Pepe]

Yeah. We're like, new addition from Kenya. Yeah. Boys II Men. We met in high school, so We've been together 20 years. 20 beautiful years. The best years of my life.

[Just Hilarious]

What made you just want to go solo now?

[Pepe]

Just trying something new, you know, after doing something for a long time, I think it was time for us to try and see what the other side looks like. And it's been beautiful so far. I think we needed this break so that our next season will be just as glorious, even better.

[Jess]

And what is the other Saudi Solers doing? Like what?

[Pepe]

They're making music. They're doing interesting things. My brother Polycup just launched his guitar Jawah, which is an amazing guitar. Chimano is on tour. Savara is putting out music as well. So we're all busy, and we're all working together. Like, we're all writing for one another, we're all producing for one another.

[DJ Envy]

They're still friends.

[Pepe]

Oh, great friends. Great friends.

[Jess]

Amazing.

[Pepe]

Yeah.

[Just Hilarious]

Why do you think East African music hasn't seen a surge and I guess mainstream the way artists from the Western.

[Pepe]

Well, there's many aspects to it, including the fact that it's just never been funded. Any music that you hear in the west is marketing dollars spent to get that music there. So for a long time, East Africa hasn't had that limelight. Also, our numbers in the diaspora don't come anywhere close. Nigeria. So the dominant culture in the diaspora is going to be Nigeria. But the next logical sound to listen to after you've gone north, east, west, north, west, and south is east. And so here we are. You know, we're taking the stairs, but we're getting here anyway.

[DJ Envy]

You know, why is it, I noticed with international artists, they always want to win in the US Why is that so important?

[Pepe]

Because when you win in the us, the reward is too high. Being the biggest artist in Kenya is nowhere close. Being the biggest artist in the US when you win in the US you win in the world. So for a long time, this market has dominated the world like that also. You guys have the structures. You have the venues, the ticket masters, and all these, you know, all of these infrastructure that makes music what it is in the world. Yeah. So your thought leaders, your global leaders. Why not?

[Just Hilarious]

You remember when your love for music first hit you?

[Pepe]

Yes. I was like, maybe five or six. I was watching Bob Marley's song Iron Lion Zion, and that's the first time I was like, wow, what is this? Like, I feel like doing this thing. And I've been doing it since I'm 37 now, guys. I've been singing 31 years. Yeah.

[Just Hilarious]

Wow. Since six years old.

[Pepe]

Since I was six. Yeah. And I joined the choir in church. And I always say the church is the best artist development program in the world because that's where all the great musicians, especially for black music, come from.

[Just Hilarious]

How was it in Kenya? Because, you know. You know, you hear stories, people from Nigeria, their parents, like, no, you're not going to go into music. You're not gonna go into taint. You're gonna be a doctor. You know, like. Like in Kenya, when you said you wanted to do music, how was it?

[Pepe]

My mom said, as long as you finish school, as long as you finish college, you can do whatever you want. And music has been a kind master to me. Music paid me through college. Like, I put on my first single with Southiso, my band, when I was a freshman. And just like that, my life changed. I had to finish school, but I started to be a journalist, so I'd probably be working here. I did communications.

[DJ Envy]

And did you know that moment where you knew you were going to make it? Like, oh, this is. This is what I was here to do.

[Pepe]

I told also my cousin when I was 6 that I'm going to be a superstar. And she laughed it off. But I remind her to this day that this is written. Like, I always knew that this is what I'm going to do. Yeah. Even though sometimes life pushed me in directions where I wasn't in my direct journey. Like, for example, like, when I studied communications, it wasn't me studying music, but it came back now to make sense, you know, like, my auditory skills are different. I understand how to interview, how to. There's just things I learned in uni that are very vital for me right now.

[Just Hilarious]

And back then, you was just like, I think I'm training to be on the other side of the microphone, but then you end up being an artist. So you got it.

[Pepe]

I was actually just finishing school to clock out something in life. Say that I have a degree, but I wasn't very passionate about it.

[Just Hilarious]

What'd you major in?

[Pepe]

Communications.

[Jess]

Okay, you just said that. Yes, we communicated.

[Pepe]

That I communicated. Not as effective.

[Just Hilarious]

I just wanted to be clear.

[Jess]

Have you ever had any big dreams of working with any American artists?

[Pepe]

Yes. Tons of them.

[Jess]

You got.

[Pepe]

I'm a big fan of, of course, Beyonce. I think her excellence is everything.

[DJ Envy]

Yeah.

[Pepe]

I love Coco Jones.

[Jess]

Oh, nice.

[Pepe]

Yeah, I think she's beautiful as a singer. Two Chains. Yeah, I like Two Chains. I like the new album he has with Larry.

[Jess]

Larry June.

[Pepe]

Yeah, I'm sure you too.

[Just Hilarious]

I'm sure y' all already done something together.

[Pepe]

We're about to. Gotcha. Yeah, we're about to. And many other artists, like, honestly, anybody who's willing to work, I'm willing to work with as well.

[Jess]

Yeah.

[Pepe]

Yeah. I realize music is better when you make it with friends.

[Just Hilarious]

What was life like growing up for you in Kenya? And how did your.

[Pepe]

Your.

[Just Hilarious]

Your Kenyan culture influence the way you see the world today?

[Pepe]

Yeah, growing up. Growing up in Kenya is beautiful because we are situated in a part of Africa that is very cosmopolitan. So we get American influence. We also get Arabian influence. We get all these influences. And I think that's what has shaped me into the musician I am today. Like, I am the most Kenyan man you're ever gonna meet in your life. My isms, my accent, my music, my sound is deliberately from that. Yeah.

[Jess]

Did anybody ever try to conform? Like, you have to conform to go mainstream?

[Pepe]

Yeah, every time I try conforming, I feel miserably, so I don't try anymore.

[Jess]

Yeah.

[Pepe]

Yeah. And also, like, I've been in the game for so long right now, and I don't have the pressure to please anybody, so I'm just doing me. And so far, it's working out.

[Just Hilarious]

Don't you think it's disrespectful to African culture to try to conform, to be mainstream anywhere else?

[Pepe]

Yes. But sometimes, you know, you have to play the game if you want to win. Otherwise, to a certain degree, I think. And it's not bad to conform. We know. We really talk about conforming like it's a bad thing. Conforming just means there's a way people do things in a certain way that has been proved to work. So if you want those results, you can try or you can take the long route. You can take whatever route you want.

[DJ Envy]

Maybe it's not changing your salary.

[Pepe]

Yeah. A little bit of conforming without losing yourself in the process and selling out isn't bad.

[Jess]

Still breaking that mold.

[Pepe]

Yeah.

[Just Hilarious]

I think in America, people don't really know what they want until they get it. You know what I'm saying? Like, nobody ever knows what the next big thing really is, or they follow everybody else. That's what I'm saying. So it's just like, you know, y' all just Do y' all? Yeah, like, oh, we. With that. Like, I love Afrobeats. You know, I mean, I love all.

[Pepe]

I know you love Afrobeats. You've been pushing us for a minute. All of you, by the way, have.

[Just Hilarious]

Really been, like, all the different sounds. I'm piano.

[Pepe]

I'm a piano.

[Just Hilarious]

I'm a piano. Like, I like. I like. I just like it. It's just a dope sound. And then when you've visited the continent, you really, really feel it. So it's just like, I'd rather y' all do y' all, instead of trying to be what we got going on over here.

[Pepe]

I agree. I agree. Like, and I also think where the world is at right now, people are really having proximity to their content. Like, people are consuming their content with proximity. So I have. I haven't seen an American artist blow in. In Kenya, like, in my village, the same way 50 Cent did eons ago, right. To mean that the people, they have now chosen other sounds to be their thought leaders. So I think it's important for you guys to, you know, come to the continent and with other sounds and listen to what the. The continent has to offer. We are so eclectic. There's tons of sounds in Africa, some that are untapped, some that are new, but you're going to come out there with gems.

[Just Hilarious]

So 50 came out 2002. So you're telling me in 23 years, nobody else is connected in Kenya?

[Pepe]

So many people have connected. I'm just talking about that golden era when you were big in America, you were big in the village. Like, it went all the way. Now this artist. Yeah, now these artists who are big in America and they are selling out, but their songs don't have the same crossover in other parts of the world.

[DJ Envy]

Well, kids were mimicking back then, bro.

[Pepe]

You're going to barbershops and you're seeing Ludacris on the. On the charts. And that's, I think, a golden era in hip hop that we know we. Not to say never gonna see again, but we will see maybe in another lifetime.

[Just Hilarious]

What was it about 50, you think?

[Pepe]

I think he just connected. He was authentic, and he's always been his authentic self. Whether you love him or you hate him. 50 is just that. He's 50. Yeah.

[DJ Envy]

I think it was the music back then, too.

[Pepe]

And the music. Yeah.

[DJ Envy]

Cause even I djed in Kenya several times, but it was just a feeling of that effect. I don't see any artists that have that effect. Where you wanted to dress like him, where you wanted to be him wear bandanas. I mean, 50 made people want to be him. And I don't see that now.

[Pepe]

Yeah. And. But also I see that now. Maybe not for all age. All right.

[DJ Envy]

Name an artist that people dress like and wanted to be like.

[Just Hilarious]

Since 50.

[Pepe]

I think the kids dress a lot of the kids.

[DJ Envy]

And that's it. But that was around the same time. That was around the same time when they come out. I'm talking about now.

[Just Hilarious]

I mean, now it's a bunch of Lil Wayne, Playboy, Playboy, Cardi.

[Pepe]

Like all the kids now 50 and Kanye. All the girls just like Tyler.

[DJ Envy]

Not like 50 and Kanye. Nah, not like 50 and conjures.

[Pepe]

I'm just thinking the music was so impactful. I don't know. The zeitgeist of the time, the rhythm of the time just favored that whole wave.

[Jess]

I think what you said, it wasn't really a lot of other people that people wanted to be like in that time because 50 had a whole era. It was like the 50 cent era. People was wearing, you know, the G units with the nipples outside. It was a bunch of things.

[Just Hilarious]

You had one.

[Jess]

Yeah, it was.

[Pepe]

I had all the bootleg G units because, you know, who's gonna. How are you gonna get original? Do you live in Kenya? So not the tank top.

[DJ Envy]

But you had that tank top.

[Just Hilarious]

All of these kids started mimicking Lil Wayne.

[Pepe]

Yeah.

[Just Hilarious]

After Lil Wayne came out. And that was before. No, it wasn't. It was after 50. Talking about the Carter twos and threes. What are you talking about?

[DJ Envy]

That was all around the same time.

[Just Hilarious]

No, it wasn't. 50. Get Richard Dodge trying. Was 02 when Lil Wayne was selling a million in a week for the car. What was it? Carter? Either 2 and 3 or 3 and 4. That was like 06. Yeah, 05 06. And then everybody started dressing like Wayne.

[DJ Envy]

With the locks and all that. Oh, but that. But to my point is that was that era and we're talking. This is 20.

[Pepe]

25.

[DJ Envy]

2025. So who had that effect where popsicle wear, Playboy, Cardi? I don't see like I am, but.

[Pepe]

I don't see that impact.

[DJ Envy]

Yeah, not like Wayne.

[Pepe]

As far as the continent.

[Just Hilarious]

You're also 37.

[Pepe]

Yeah, I'm 47.

[Just Hilarious]

He's 47. You go talk to them. 20 year olds. 19, 20 year olds. They got these guys that they dressing like, bro.

[Pepe]

Yeah.

[Jess]

I also say that you are married to Chiki Zaruka. Am I saying it right? Kuruka?

[Just Hilarious]

Yes, yes.

[Pepe]

She's also my manager.

[Jess]

She is your manager? You married Your manager. How is that dynamic?

[Pepe]

It's beautiful. It's been by far the most rewarding experience of my life. Yeah, I didn't think I'd have. I'd have it this easy in my solo career if I didn't have someone who centers me like her.

[DJ Envy]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jess]

Did you meet her before she was your manager? You married her or you.

[Pepe]

Okay, we were together. We've been together 11 years and she managed me for only the last two years. During that entire time, we were just husband and wife. And then when I went solo, I was just like, yo, I think you need to manage me. And she was like, okay, we're doing it for the home. And it's beautiful. Like, it's by far the most rewarding experience of my life. Do you pay her in other ways?

[Just Hilarious]

Damn.

[Jess]

Damn. You got it.

[Pepe]

I pay her like that. No, I mean.

[DJ Envy]

Hey, what up, y' all? It's DJ Envy. The first few months of 2025 have been quite a year. Work deadlines, group chats you can't escape, and your weird cousin's latest overshare. It's a lot. But here's some good news. You don't have to bring that stress into your car. The all new Nissan Murano is your piece on wheels, thanks to its available features. Imagine sliding into the relaxing, massaging seats that feel like they were made to melt your tensions. Take in the skyline views that let sunlight pour in and watch as your day brightens. I have a special playlist that always gets me right. And with the Bose premium sound system, you. You too can vibe like you're at your own private concert. Plus, with your 64 color personalized lighting option, you can set the mood any way you want. Be it romantic, chill, or in a straight up do not disturb mode. Let the Nissan Murano be your oasis in a chaotic world. Because sometimes the greatest rush isn't rushing at all. Drive the all new Nissan Murano today.

[Pepe]

Panoramic moonroof, ambient lighting, bows and massaging leather. Appointed seats are optional features.

[DJ Envy]

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[Pepe]

So.

[DJ Envy]

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[Just Hilarious]

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[Pepe]

You know, I don't know how you guys run your households, and I think America is a very different country from. But in my household, the money comes to the pot. The money belongs to the family. And she has access to all of my money and I have access to all of hers. So, like, we work to build a future for us and our children. So.

[Just Hilarious]

I love the way Africans say money. All of them, money.

[Pepe]

Money. Yeah.

[Just Hilarious]

I just like the way y' all say it.

[Jess]

We just say money.

[Pepe]

Money.

[Jess]

But how. How do y' all separate the business mode from the BAE mode? Like, how is it?

[Pepe]

We don't.

[Jess]

I don't.

[Pepe]

Yeah, we would be in bed at midnight and she'd be like, baby, did you check the mix for. Did you check the mix for the song that was sent? You know, like, we just don't have the. We don't have the lines further down the road. I know that might be a problem, but so far, so good.

[Jess]

It's beautiful.

[Pepe]

Yeah, it's beautiful. And. And we're just really on. Great energy. Yeah. We've had really dark times before she started managing me, and I think when she managed me, that saved our marriage. Like, that saved our relationship.

[Just Hilarious]

What are some of the biggest challenges you face? Just being a, you know, creative, trying to come. Come out of Kenya.

[Pepe]

I think coming from East Africa. No one's looking out for a musician from East Africa. You guys are looking out for athletes and long distance runners and all and safari experiences and all these things. And my job now is to literally cut a road in the jungle for my kids to come and show you what East African music is about. So it's a challenge, but it also comes with the blessings because in many, in many, many opportunities, I'm going to be the East African, the token East African to show up at Breakfast Club and, you know, tell you guys about where I'm coming from. Yeah, yeah.

[Jess]

Any visuals we got coming?

[Pepe]

Yeah, sure, man. I have a new album coming out soon titled Alusa Continua.

[Jess]

Do you shoot music videos? Yeah, so we got visuals to look forward to.

[Pepe]

Yeah, we've got amazing music videos. Yeah, I. I did shoot a couple music videos before I came to the States.

[Jess]

Are you going to shoot any in the States?

[Pepe]

No, I don't have time. Oh, yeah, my toes. Really. After, after America, I'm going to Europe. So, like, I have to just run. Yeah, but I'd love to shoot in the States, man. You know, you guys have all the culture here, so. Yeah, yeah.

[Just Hilarious]

I saw something where they were saying you the Grammys was donating some money to Kenya.

[Pepe]

That was musical. So the Grammys are doing an Africa Grammys, you know, like same way we have the Latin Grammys. So there's been talk about Africa doing a Grammys and Kenya had put in a bid to be the host for the Grammys.

[Just Hilarious]

3.8 million.

[Pepe]

It was something like that. And the bid, the whole. I think the news came out at a very bad time because at that time, economically and even now, we are not doing so well as a country. So a $3.8 million spent on the Grammys feels like an impulse spent.

[DJ Envy]

Yeah, it's like that the Grammys would bring in would be quadruple that though.

[Pepe]

I'm sure, you know, not a lot of people have the insights of the music business to understand the value of the Grammys coming to Kenya like that, you know, but so the people were just up in arms because they felt like there's many more ways to spend the $3.5 million. Yeah.

[Just Hilarious]

Why did you agree with it?

[Pepe]

Because I'm an artist and I understand what it's going to do for my constituency for my people. Like this is future, future, you know, investments for the artists who are coming. You know, they're going to thank us one day for hosting the Grammys in Kenya. So I think it's not a bad thing. Maybe the communication behind it should have been better. Maybe they should have been told about.

[Jess]

The financial degree in communications.

[Pepe]

Yes, I agree. I agree. Jess. I agree. I agree. Maybe just the communication around it should have been better.

[Jess]

Yeah.

[Pepe]

Yeah. They should have said what NVS said about the profit and what we stand to gain as a country and this and this and this. And then people would have been like, okay, we see it.

[DJ Envy]

I mean, it would. A visitation, hotels, restaurants, foods, tourism. I mean, it's just so much that.

[Pepe]

You get out the development programs for the different facets of the music industry that the Grammy comes with as well. Yeah. You know, the Grammy is like a good artist development program as well, second to church. So. Yeah, it would be nice if they came through. Yeah, I'm still hoping they do.

[Jess]

Yeah.

[Pepe]

Yeah.

[Just Hilarious]

Does that put a lot of pressure on you, knowing that Kenya is a country that isn't doing that well financially, but you may be doing better than most?

[Pepe]

Yes. It puts pressure on me to make art that speaks to those people and tells their story to the world. Like, I want people to see the pain and the struggle in my art. I want them to listen to the lyrics, and I want them to. I want the lyrics to take them to places in Kenya that they've never been to. And I want the human experience to connect. So right now, we're not going to a very easy time. Our government has no opposition. The opposition is the youth. And for the last year or so, there have been so many abductions. There's been so many. There's been freedom of expression, but not freedom after expression. And I just think it's important for us to know that, or the leaders to know that. I have more faith in the children who are coming than their leadership in terms of the power they used to oppress. Yeah. I don't have any fear to the current regime. I have more faith in the kids, and I think the kids are going to save us.

[DJ Envy]

Do you feel comfortable living here?

[Pepe]

I feel comfortable living in Kenya, Yeah. I would say to a large extent, Kenya is a beautiful country. There's many experiences you can get. And if. And we are generally very peaceful people, but the recent times have been very tough economically. Yeah. But we are not a basket case.

[DJ Envy]

That's right.

[Pepe]

Yeah. We are proper people. Kenyans are fighters. Africans are fighters. And the people of Africa will keep the lights on. The people of Kenya will keep the lights on.

[Jess]

Absolutely. What is one of your favorite songs from the album?

[Pepe]

Masheri Mashari. Yeah. It's a tribute to you, Jess. I wrote it to you. Yeah.

[Jess]

She's married, Damn it.

[DJ Envy]

So am I.

[Pepe]

It's okay. I'm also married.

[Just Hilarious]

But he's also African, so he can have more than one wife.

[Jess]

No, he can't. That, too.

[Just Hilarious]

You can't. You're married to a Mexican.

[Pepe]

Not to.

[Just Hilarious]

You're married to a Mexican. You can only have more than one baby.

[Jess]

Every African. I thought that was in certain villages. Why are y' all doing it?

[Pepe]

You know, some things just. I found in this world, and there are such complex issues that I can't really address right now in the Breakfast Club, but I'm not doing it.

[Jess]

Okay.

[Pepe]

Yeah.

[Jess]

Because Cheeky deserves all of you and all of me.

[Pepe]

Only me. Her. Yeah.

[Jess]

Okay.

[Pepe]

Yes.

[Just Hilarious]

So you wouldn't want another wife? I mean, I'm just saying that. Let me rephrase.

[Jess]

Try to get you in trouble.

[Just Hilarious]

No, no, no, no. Let me rephrase that. I know you are happily married. I'm just saying, based off African tradition, in a lot of countries, you are allowed to have another wife.

[Pepe]

Constitutionally, in Kenya, you're allowed. Do I want another wife? No. I don't got you. Yeah. Not now. No. No, I don't. No. Because.

[DJ Envy]

Just let me get you in trouble.

[Jess]

Just because that's, you know, culturally, like, y' all can do that doesn't mean you always want that. Right there. Yeah, I.

[Pepe]

So I come from a polygamous family. My dad has 10 kids from 6 different women.

[Just Hilarious]

Legend.

[Pepe]

I am the last of 10. I am the last gentleman. You've been trouble. I know you. By the way.

[Just Hilarious]

He's married. Was he married to him or just.

[Pepe]

Informally? One would argue that. Yeah. So formally, he's been married to two.

[Just Hilarious]

Okay.

[Pepe]

Yeah. My mother is the last of the 10. And I'm the. Yeah. Of the 6.

[Just Hilarious]

And they all know about each other.

[Pepe]

They all know about each other. When he bought a spoon for our house, he bought a spoon for the other house. You know, like. Yeah. If you guys really understand how polygamy works, maybe it's not going to be a very touchy subject. I think just when you listen from the west and how people speak about it, it's just really given the vibe that it's unfair, but it has everything to do with society and how society was set up back then. It may not work now. I agree. But back then, it had everything to do with community and looking out for one another. You know, in some cases, a guy was polygamous because maybe his first wife couldn't get kids, you see? And she'd be like, let me bring a helper to see how we can do this. Also, the more kids you had, the. The more labor you had. Because we were farmers, we were herdsmen. And so the more children you had, the more people you had to create wealth with. So that was the structure then.

[Jess]

But see, polygamy is one sided because what if cheeky was like, I want like three or four husbands?

[Pepe]

Yeah.

[Jess]

What you gonna do?

[Pepe]

There are some African cultures that have been matriarchs.

[Just Hilarious]

That's true.

[Jess]

Oh, really?

[Pepe]

Yes.

[Jess]

Okay.

[Pepe]

Yeah. So polygamy has also gone both ways, I think. I don't. It's called polyandry on the other side. So not all polygamy has been men doing that to women. No, it's also been women doing that to men.

[Jess]

Okay.

[DJ Envy]

Is that what you want?

[Jess]

Huh?

[Pepe]

Would you.

[Jess]

No, no, no.

[Pepe]

Would you get over.

[Just Hilarious]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

[Pepe]

Would you?

[Jess]

No, no, no, no. I don't.

[Pepe]

I don't.

[Jess]

I don't have time. I do not have time. So.

[Just Hilarious]

Man, you look like Mike Kaiser and John Sally. Do you know them people?

[Pepe]

I know JB Smooth. A lot of people told me I look like jb.

[Just Hilarious]

Don't like J.

[Pepe]

Move. I'm show you.

[Jess]

I just want to show you my cousin too. Don't be funny. Yeah, we the basketball player.

[Just Hilarious]

But they always say if you go to some place on the continent, you'll see somebody that look like you. Yes.

[Pepe]

Shalom. I see you in Kamega Town. I see you every morning in my village.

[DJ Envy]

A taller version.

[Pepe]

Yeah, that dude looks like me.

[Just Hilarious]

Yes.

[Pepe]

If he gets some glass.

[Just Hilarious]

John Salad. Got some Kenyon.

[Pepe]

She's a cutie, though. He looks nice.

[DJ Envy]

What? Okay.

[Jess]

I know that's right.

[Pepe]

I mean, I see. I see why you would say that.

[Jess]

Yes.

[Just Hilarious]

Oh, let me show you Mike Kaiser.

[Jess]

No, it might not be the African Charlemagne.

[Pepe]

I went to Turkey the other day and a guy was like, hey, Tupac. Yes.

[Jess]

They play with you? Let me see.

[Pepe]

Yeah.

[Jess]

Who is that?

[Just Hilarious]

He do look like Kylie and Johnson.

[Jess]

No, he don't.

[DJ Envy]

He ain't called my Kaza cutie, though.

[Jess]

No, no. That look like Ras Baraka.

[Pepe]

Yeah.

[Just Hilarious]

Jesus Christ. Shut up, man.

[Jess]

But damn, I forgot what. I was actually getting to a joint.

[DJ Envy]

You want to put your hand.

[Jess]

Yeah, that's what I was.

[Unknown]

Ready?

[Pepe]

Yes.

[Jess]

I wanted to get into.

[DJ Envy]

What?

[Jess]

You want to hear one of your songs?

[Pepe]

One of my songs? Machete.

[Just Hilarious]

Yeah.

[Jess]

You said Machete. Was that inspired? Was that inspired by Stevie Wonder, though? Just a Little bit. Because, you know, we got a song.

[Pepe]

Yeah, I know. I know the song.

[Jess]

Okay.

[Pepe]

I love Steve.

[Jess]

All right.

[Pepe]

Tv. But Masheri is just inspired by the trillions of Africans who use the word Masheri for their lovers. It's a way of life cast.

[Just Hilarious]

One more random question.

[Pepe]

Yeah.

[Just Hilarious]

What would. What would Africa look like if all the countries were unified?

[Pepe]

I ask myself that question all the time. I ask myself, what would Africa look like if we weren't colonized? Because, you know, naturally, we have never really been people who go out to conquer and convert. We've always been. And that's why it was very easy to colonize us, because we were easy to, you know, coerce, and we didn't know the games that the other party was playing. So I think a united Africa is An Africa that's living to its full potential, is peaceful, is. There's some. There's some leaders right now in the continent who are showing what Africa could do united. I don't know if you guys have heard about Traore from Burkina Faso.

[Just Hilarious]

Burkina Faso, yeah.

[Pepe]

And he's been able to unite the countries on his region. They've been able to kick out France and.

[Just Hilarious]

Because he's taking care of people.

[Pepe]

Yeah. And he's taking care of people. And I see that to be the future of the continent. And when we unite, we will be unstoppable in all the beautiful ways.

[Just Hilarious]

I love the continent, man.

[Pepe]

I welcome you guys to Kenya. But I came bearing gifts. Can I give you gifts?

[Jess]

Yes.

[DJ Envy]

Okay.

[Just Hilarious]

Don't bring out. Don't pull out no cocks.

[Pepe]

So in Kenya, I'm the chairman of the Bald Men Association.

[Just Hilarious]

Hey, let's go.

[Pepe]

And I see you, Charlemagne. And this is made by jumping.

[Just Hilarious]

Oh, I love it. I'm wearing this.

[Pepe]

You know, it says, bald men love better.

[Jess]

Oh, I love it.

[Pepe]

Because we love.

[Just Hilarious]

As soon as I get my fresh baldy this week, I'm wearing this. I love this.

[Pepe]

Yes. And, Jess, I got you this in pink.

[DJ Envy]

You got the same one bowl. You got the same ball.

[Just Hilarious]

You own a barbershop.

[Pepe]

I don't.

[Just Hilarious]

Oh, okay.

[Pepe]

It was just a theme for one of my albums. And I worked on this with a friend of mine called Kimati. Shout Out. That's my brother.

[Just Hilarious]

You got her.

[DJ Envy]

Bald Woman Love Better too.

[Pepe]

No bald men.

[Just Hilarious]

Oh. Oh.

[Pepe]

Man.

[Just Hilarious]

That was unnecessary. That was totally fucking uncalled for.

[Jess]

Thank you so much.

[Pepe]

And envy, because I want you to look approachable. I got you this in pink.

[DJ Envy]

Okay, thank you.

[Pepe]

Yeah. Because I know, like, I know you're A gangster.

[Just Hilarious]

Angry gangster. What the fuck y' all be believing? That dumb shit he be saying.

[DJ Envy]

All right, give that. Thank you.

[Just Hilarious]

Yes.

[DJ Envy]

I wear with me and you go out.

[Just Hilarious]

Charlemagne. That's dope.

[Unknown]

Period.

[Just Hilarious]

What's the website?

[Pepe]

There's no website. That was. That was part of my. Something I was doing. But, yeah, man, bald men do love better, so.

[Just Hilarious]

That's a fact.

[Pepe]

As a bald man, as a chairman of the Bald Man Association.

[Just Hilarious]

When did you start going bald? Like, you did it on purpose?

[Pepe]

In the beginning. And then he caught up with me.

[Just Hilarious]

The hairline was getting pushed back.

[Pepe]

Yeah, it just left. And I remember one time I was also washing my face and I had a bigger face to wash. Me, too.

[Just Hilarious]

I know the feeling.

[Pepe]

Yeah. But, you know, I took it with stride. It's become my thing now. Yeah. And quite frankly, the girls like it. You know, like, we're different. Balding is actually a sign of a lot of testosterone. So if you're bald, you're a man's man. If it's anything to go by.

[DJ Envy]

But whatever. B.N.

[Pepe]

Ladies and gentlemen.

[Just Hilarious]

Good to see you, brother.

[Pepe]

Tell them.

[Just Hilarious]

Is there a website for the tour? Just go to.

[Pepe]

Oh, yes, man. You can go on my Instagram. BNA misol B I E N A I M E S O L BNM isoul. You can go there. There's a link for the tickets. I'm playing Ohio next. I'm playing Atlanta next. I'm sold out in pretty much every place. But you can follow the boy. You can check out the vibes. And through my page, you're going to discover what East Africa is about. I also want to welcome all of you guys to Kenya.

[Just Hilarious]

I'd love to.

[Pepe]

If you guys ever land in Kenya. Envy. I know you come there often, so.

[DJ Envy]

Tell them I gotta get back, though.

[Pepe]

But tell them about it. Beautiful place.

[Just Hilarious]

Kenya, right by Zanzibar, right? Tanzania.

[Pepe]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Just Hilarious]

Because I went there last year. Well, the year before last, I went to Tanzania. Zanzibar. And they was like, you gotta go to Kenya. It's right.

[Pepe]

Yeah.

[Jess]

Nice.

[Pepe]

So I'm welcoming you guys to Kenya.

[Jess]

Thank you.

[Just Hilarious]

Absolutely.

[Pepe]

Love to see you guys there.

[Just Hilarious]

Yes, sir. Appreciate you, brother.

[DJ Envy]

Well, it's the Breakfast Club. Good morning.

[Just Hilarious]

Wake that ass up early in the morning. The Breakfast Club.

[DJ Envy]

Okay. Have you heard about this? Last year, the Green changed the formula for their Cool Rush deodorant. Their fans rebelled and wanted the old scent back. And degree Listen, that doesn't happen often. They admitted they effed up and are bringing the original Cool Rush scent back. Now. It's exactly how you remember it. Cool, crisp and fresh. It's the reason it's the number one men's antiperspirant. And it's back in Walmart, Target and other stores now for under $4. So try it and see what the fuss is about. Head to your local Walmart or Target to try the OG degree. Cool rush for yourself.

[Just Hilarious]

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[Unknown]

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[Pepe]

I'm Andrea Gunning, host of the podcast Betrayal. Police Lieutenant Joel Kern used his badge to fool everyone, most of all his wife, Caroline. He texted I've ruined our lives. You're going to want to divorce me. How far would he go to cover up what he'd done?

[Just Hilarious]

The fact that you lied is absolutely horrific and quite frankly, I question how many other women are out there that may bring forward allegations in the future.

[Pepe]

Listen to the Trail on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You're listening to an iHeart podcast.