INTERVIEW: Bozoma Saint John Talks 'On Brand With Jimmy Fallon', Getting Engaged, Real Housewives + More

Summary

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The Breakfast Club: Bozoma Saint John Talks 'On Brand With Jimmy Fallon', Engagement, Real Housewives & More

Date: October 2, 2025
Hosts: DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, Charlamagne Tha God, Lauren LaRosa
Guest: Bozoma Saint John

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Episode Overview

This episode features marketing powerhouse and TV personality Bozoma Saint John, who joins The Breakfast Club to discuss her journey of resilience following the loss of her Malibu home, her surprise engagement, experiences on “The Real Housewives of Beverly Hills,” fertility challenges, and her new role as co-host of NBC’s On Brand with Jimmy Fallon. Through candid and spirited conversation, Bozoma shares insights into overcoming grief, forging a new path in love and business, and the realities of modern marketing, AI, and representation in the media industry.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Surviving Grief: The Malibu House Fire

• House fire in Malibu: Bozoma recounts the emotional and logistical struggles after her dream home burned down just seven days into 2025.
  • “2025 gonna be my year. And then seven days later, my house burned down in Malibu.” (Bozoma, 02:41)
• Barriers to Black homeownership: She details the complicated process of buying property in Malibu as a Black woman.
  • “I had to put a trust inside of a trust so that nobody could find me. Damn. And nobody would know that a single black woman was buying a property on the beachfront...” (Bozoma, 04:21)
• Family Impact: Despite challenges, Bozoma’s focus remains on her daughter and maintaining hope.
  • “It's a hard thing to go through, you know, grief upon grief is a hard thing for sure, so. But we're managing okay.” (Bozoma, 05:40)

2. Love and a Surprise Engagement

• Engagement story: Bozoma recalls her fiancé’s elaborate international trip for her ring and the traditional steps he took.
  • “When he said he'd been in India for my ring, I was... that's what it was for. My spidey senses weren't wrong.” (Bozoma, 08:53)
• Emotional healing and choosing love: She reflects on opening herself up again after grief and trauma.
  • “I could hurt before, but I'ma do it again. And it won't hurt this time, you know, and that's the only way to actually move forward.” (Bozoma, 10:01)
• Traditional values: Her fiancé asked her father, mother, and daughter for her hand in marriage.
  • “He flew to my father and asked him for my hand... and he asked my mother, and he asked my daughter.” (Bozoma, 10:48)

3. Fertility Journey & Motherhood Later in Life

• Trying for more children at age 48-49: Bozoma talks frankly about fertility treatments and the trauma from previous pregnancies.
  • “It's been really tough. Yeah. You know, because I'm 48. I'm almost 49...going through the hormonal journey, you know, taking the medication, taking the injections...” (Bozoma, 11:13–11:52)
• Past challenges: Candid revelations about preeclampsia and loss.
  • “First time I was pregnant, I developed preeclampsia early. And unfortunately, my daughter didn't survive her birth. ... Thank God that Lael survived, and she's such a wonderful person...” (Bozoma, 11:56)

4. Meeting Her Fiancé

• Unique love story: Bozoma shares how art, serendipity, and a family connection led her to her fiancé, Keely.
  • “He saw a picture of you from the showing that we did in Atlanta. And I was like, oh, who's that? He's like, oh, it's my uncle. I was like, now, do I look like I date uncle?” (Bozoma, 15:38–16:44)
• Romantic gestures: Their third date was in Ghana.
  • “He flew to Ghana and we had our third date on New Year's Eve.” (Bozoma, 17:45)
  • “If he wanted to, he would. All right. And he do.” (Bozoma, 18:10–18:16)

5. Career Moves: ‘On Brand’ with Jimmy Fallon

• New show origins: The story behind landing On Brand and leveraging her corporate marketing pedigree.
  • “When I joined the Housewives, people were like, yo, you’re going to destroy your reputation... And it was in the first episode... Jimmy’s wife was watching the show.” (Bozoma, 19:19–19:52)
• Real-world marketing challenges: The campaigns on the show are real, with brands spending actual marketing dollars.
  • “These are real briefs. They have real business issues that need to be solved... they're trusting us as much as we are putting faith into what these creatives can do.” (Bozoma, 28:41)

6. Modern Marketing, AI, and Representation

• Advice for aspiring marketers: Encourages guerrilla marketing and pitching ideas, reminding listeners that opportunities are more accessible now.
  • “Now you heard the strategy, you might as well, like, try and hit it... this is a real opportunity for new people to get into the industry.” (Bozoma, 31:18)
• AI in marketing: Not afraid of AI, Bozoma sees it as an evolving tool but champions the irreplaceable creativity of humans.
  • “AI... uses information that already exists. It doesn’t create things that don’t exist in the world. And so that’s where I feel like humanity is at its best. Like, we are the dreamers…” (Bozoma, 34:22)
• Generational perspectives: She advocates for children learning to use technology and AI to keep up with the future.
  • “I would prefer that my daughter understand how to utilize ChatGPT, AI and all these other programs and get the right answer, because you’re only gonna get the right answer if you put in the right questions.” (Bozoma, 36:47)

7. Ageism & Diversity in Marketing

• Youth in advertising: Agencies often prioritize youth for fearlessness, but maturity and experience also matter.
  • “Because I think the challenge with being older... is that you've lived life and so you censor yourself... but us, you'll be like, oh, try and do this new thing. I'm like, ah, that's not gonna work. Because XYZ thing, it's not gonna work because we already tried it.” (Bozoma, 40:51–41:42)
• Importance of balance: Both young and experienced people are essential for optimal creative and business outcomes.

8. Real Housewives: Authenticity and Cast Dynamics

• Reality vs. performance: The emotions, conflicts, and friendships on the show are genuine.
  • “These feelings are all real, okay? That's the one thing I didn't know going into the show... when you’re not feeling somebody, you're not feeling them for real.” (Bozoma, 26:27)
• On breaking the fourth wall: Details her dynamic with co-stars like Kyle and Garcelle, and how real-life relationships can be more complex than what's shown.
  • “Last year, Kyle and I had a tough time because I just felt like she should be more open and honest about her life... But in this current time, we've crossed that bridge.” (Bozoma, 27:15)
  • On Garcelle unfollowing: “It's a lot like having a breakup where you don't get access to the person anymore, and you kind of have to have closure on your own.” (Bozoma, 44:29)

9. Planning the (Two!) Big Weddings

• Celebrating after hardship: Bozoma and her fiancé plan two major weddings—in Los Angeles and Ghana.
  • “We both want one in LA. I really want one in Ghana. Okay, so we're gonna do both and it's gonna cost a lot of money.” (Bozoma, 45:19–45:30)
• Hosts joke about wedding costs:
  • “Look, this man said, look, you got the wedding. I took. I flew to Ghana for the third date. Yeah, you got the wedding this Saturday.” (Charlamagne Tha God, 45:34)
  • “There's no surprises. Like, we gonna do it big. Yeah. I want everybody there.” (Bozoma, 45:46)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On moving forward after loss:
  “I could hurt before, but I'ma do it again. And it won't hurt this time... Otherwise you will be in a cave.” (Bozoma, 10:01)
• On representation in luxury real estate:
  “I have somebody who signs stuff for me so I don't never have to show up. That's how I got it.” (Bozoma, 04:39)
• On the power and limits of AI:
  “AI doesn’t create things that don’t exist... we are the dreamers, we're the imaginers.” (Bozoma, 34:22)
• On breaking into marketing:
  “The way greats are made. It's like: you try, and if you don't succeed, what they say, try and try again.” (Bozoma, 33:56)
• On reality TV authenticity:
  “These feelings are all real, okay?... You're not feeling them for real.” (Bozoma, 26:27)
• On the cost of celebration:
  “I don't mind spending... these moments are so special, you know, so hard. Yes, yes. And [we’ve] been through so much... I'm going to celebrate.” (Bozoma, 46:49)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Malibu House Fire and Home Ownership Barriers – 02:32–05:39
• Engagement Story & Proposal – 06:00–09:09
• Grief, Healing, and Choosing Love Again – 09:33–10:33
• Fertility at 48: Honest Discussion – 11:13–13:08
• How She Met Her Fiancé Keely – 13:11–17:53
• On Brand with Jimmy Fallon: Career Pivot – 18:19–21:59
• Marketing Industry Realities – 28:41–33:56
• AI, Technology, and Education – 34:05–39:58
• Younger vs. Older in the Creative Industry – 40:42–42:18
• Real Housewives: Dynamics and Authenticity – 26:15–28:18, 43:32–44:58
• Wedding Planning and Celebration – 45:01–46:49

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Summary & Takeaways

This episode shines with Bozoma Saint John’s characteristic energy—unapologetically real, vibrant, and inspirational. Through laughter and frank storytelling, she challenges assumptions about grief, love, age, and career pivots, offering practical wisdom to listeners on embracing technology, forging their own path in traditionally exclusive spaces, and the importance of community and celebration.

Her journey demonstrates resilience, the power of relationships (personal and professional), and why representation and authenticity matter—whether you’re breaking barriers in Malibu, shaking up the Real Housewives franchise, or pioneering new ground in the media and marketing industry.

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Transcript

[Bozoma Saint John]

This is an I heart podcast.

[Hunter (Hunting for Answers host)]

Short on time, but big on true crime. On a recent episode of the podcast Hunting for Answers, I highlighted the story of 19 year old Lachey Dungey. But she never knocked on that door. She never made it inside. And that text message would be the last time anyone would ever hear from her. Listen to Hunting for Answers from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Dr. J (Just Heal podcast host)]

I love that you created this system that revolves around you, creating pockets of peace. World Mental health day is around the corner. And on my podcast just heal with Dr. J, I dive into what it really means to care for your mind, body and spirit. From breaking generational patterns to building emotional.

[Bozoma Saint John]

Capacity, I'm going to walk away feeling like, yes, I'm going to continue my healing journey.

[Dr. J (Just Heal podcast host)]

Listen to just heal with Dr. J from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Stephanie, Beatriz, and Melissa Fumero (More Better podcast hosts)]

Hey, guys, it's Stephanie, Beatriz and Melissa Fumaro. And this is more Better. We are jumping right in and ready to hear from you, your thoughts, your questions, your feelings about socks with sandals. And we're ready to share some possibly questionable advice and hot takes.

[Bozoma Saint John]

God, that sucks so hard though. I'm so sorry.

[Stephanie, Beatriz, and Melissa Fumero (More Better podcast hosts)]

Can you out petty them?

[Bozoma Saint John]

Can you match their pettiness for funsies?

[Stephanie, Beatriz, and Melissa Fumero (More Better podcast hosts)]

Yeah, all the things. Because aren't we all trying to get a little more better? Listen to More Better on the Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Dr. Leslie (Forensic psychologist, Intentionally Disturbing podcast host)]

Do you want to hear the secrets of psychopaths, murderers, sex offenders? In this episode, I offer tips from them. I'm Dr. Leslie, forensic psychologist. This is a podcast where I cut through the noise with real talk.

[Bozoma Saint John]

When you were described to me as a forensic psychologist, I was like, snooze. We ended up talking for hours and I was like, this girl is my best friend.

[Dr. Leslie (Forensic psychologist, Intentionally Disturbing podcast host)]

Let's talk about safety and strategies to protect yourself and and your loved ones. Listen to Intentionally disturbing on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Stephanie, Beatriz, and Melissa Fumero (More Better podcast hosts)]

Hold up.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

Every day I wake up.

[Bozoma Saint John]

Wake your ass up.

[Dr. J (Just Heal podcast host)]

The Breakfast Club.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

Morning, everybody. It's DJ Envy. Just hilarious. Charlamagne the guy. We are the breakfast club. Lauren LaRosa is here as well. We got a special guest in the building. She's back again. Ladies and gentlemen, Bozema St. John. Welcome back.

[Bozoma Saint John]

Thank you.

Bo, how you feeling being here? I feel great.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

You feeling good?

[Bozoma Saint John]

Ye.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

Last time we spoke to you, I know you Were. We were talking about you were moving because of the things that happened with your house. And that house burned down. So just give us an update of what happened with that.

[Bozoma Saint John]

Oh, well, it's been a crazy time. I mean, look, it's like. I think like everybody else, you know, the new year came. It's like, oh, 2025 gonna be my year. And then seven days later, my house burned down in Malibu.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

Jesus.

[Bozoma Saint John]

And I was like, oh, okay. You know, and the. The challenge with the. The house is that it's. It was really my dream house. I fought hard for that house. I was actually just reading something about Harry Belafonte, who was trying to buy a property in the 1950s, an apartment here in Manhattan. And they were trying to keep him out. Cause obviously he was black. And I was like, damn. 70 years later, I was facing the same thing in Malibu. You know what I mean? And so it was really, really devastating. But God, grace, grit, some tears, some anger, some lawsuits, because sometimes you got to take it to your lawyers, you know what I mean?

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

With insurance, they would just. I'm sure they just didn't want to say, oh, we'll cover it. You had to fight for that.

[Bozoma Saint John]

Everybody's in trouble, you know? I mean, look, there was so much damage, so many people who didn't have.

[Charlamagne Tha God (The Breakfast Club host)]

Yeah.

[Bozoma Saint John]

Who lost everything that I don't. I don't know that it's possible, you know, to recover. And so sometimes you just gotta, you know, get a little mean with it. Yeah.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

You're gonna rebuild in Malibu.

[Bozoma Saint John]

I don't know. Now. I'm not sure what happens now.

I've only been there twice, you know, because it's very, very hard, you know, to see it. So the first time I went, it was, like, all in rubble.

[Charlamagne Tha God (The Breakfast Club host)]

Yeah.

[Bozoma Saint John]

And then I went back a couple of weeks ago, and it's, like, all cleared out now. So you can see the land.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

See the land. Right.

[Bozoma Saint John]

And it's just. It's a tough thing because I look at it and I'm like, man, but if I leave, like, when do I come back? You know? Like, when. When do I get another opportunity? Was so hard to buy it.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

So it's just like you say, so hard to buy. They don't let black people buy land in Malama.

[Bozoma Saint John]

I was meaning that it was as an argument I had. I had to put a trust inside of a trust so that nobody could find me. Damn. And nobody would know that a single black woman was buying a property on the beachfront of Malibu. You know what I mean?

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

So did you actually go see the house or, you know, you couldn't go see the house because they would see a black woman coming to buy the house.

[Bozoma Saint John]

No, I went to see the house, like, sort of undercover, you know, pretending like I was just sightseeing, and then sent my real estate agent, who's a wonderful little Jewish woman. Love her to death and sent her to go do it. And my business managers, you know, put my trust inside a trust, and I have somebody who signs stuff for me so I don't never have to show up.

[Charlamagne Tha God (The Breakfast Club host)]

Yeah.

[Bozoma Saint John]

That's how I got.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

Do people really care? Like, when they're selling a property because they're making money? Right. Who cares? You black, green, yellow, Y.

[Bozoma Saint John]

Look, I wish I could answer that question, but they really do care. It's wild because even after we had closed, the former owner tried to put a clause after the contract was done, saying that he could have access to my beach.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

Really?

[Bozoma Saint John]

Through my house. You gotta be kidding me. I live. That's crazy.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

Throw some bones.

[Bozoma Saint John]

I'm closing things like you written it. Y', all the audacity. You know what I mean? I was like, I own this house now. You no longer own it. And if you come as trespassing, that we'll call the cops on you. Right.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

You know what I'm saying?

[Charlamagne Tha God (The Breakfast Club host)]

How has your family been?

[Bozoma Saint John]

Really good. Yeah. It's like, my daughter, who's 16, really love the house, you know, and it's. It's a. It's a. It's a hard thing to go through, you know, grief upon grief is a hard thing for sure, so. But we're managing okay. Thank you.

You also, since we last seen. You got engaged.

Yes.

And that's crazy, because I was in your business, yo. It's like, I knew.

This is why I want to see Lauren today, because last time I was here, we were talking about me and my man, and then I think you said, like, you know, are you guys, like, is he going to propose or wasn't he going.

I think it was your birthday trip. And when you posted, I was like, she. They are so happy. They are so in love. Like, I love this for her.

Remember I told you to go call him.

You didn't call him?

I never called him. You ain't called? No, actually, I did.

And then the proposal happened.

So, you know.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

So wait a minute. You know her fiance?

[Bozoma Saint John]

No.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

You didn't call her fiance? See if he had any friends for you at the time when you was looking. Cause she was looking. She was looking. I mean, looking hard.

[Bozoma Saint John]

Don't say looking hard. I was letting God do whatever he need to do. And I'm in a great place. God is good.

Amen, ain't he?

Look, but back to we're catch a.

Spirit, start running around.

But yeah. So last time you was here, we talked about it, and you were like, you know, I do want to. You know, family is my thing.

Yeah. Yeah.

And then a surprise proposal happened.

Yes.

And you. I read the People exclusive. It said you were actually surprised, which is. I find it hard for you to be surprised.

It's very difficult to surprise me. I mean, because, like, look, first of all, I feel like I'm psychic.

[Charlamagne Tha God (The Breakfast Club host)]

Yeah.

[Bozoma Saint John]

Next, I'm like, I see people's movements and I'm like, why you say that? Why'd you do that? Now, the thing that tipped me off a little bit. I knew something was happening, was that he's a traveler. You know, we both love to travel a lot, and we exchange voice notes and video messages constantly all day long. And we had gone to London for my sister's wedding, and afterwards, I had to return home to continue filming the Real Housewives of Beverly Hills. And he said he was going to stay in Europe and just travel around a little bit. And so he's like, in Rome. He's sending me videos of his tour. He's in Paris. He's like, doing all these things. And then he's like, oh, you know, I must stop by Mumbai. And I was like, india. You know what I mean? He's like, yeah, I've never been. I think I'm going to go. So. Okay. You know, so he goes. He was there for a week. And I was getting, like, you know, messages, but they were always from his room. And. Or, like, he would be outside. And, you know, so I was like, why would he be in India? Now, the thing is, these two rings that I wear constantly.

Yes.

I got both of them in India on different trips. Right. And they were kind of like my own, like, you know, I love myself.

[Charlamagne Tha God (The Breakfast Club host)]

Yeah.

[Bozoma Saint John]

Type ring. Because I, you know, I didn't. I hadn't purchased expensive jewelry for myself before.

[Charlamagne Tha God (The Breakfast Club host)]

Yeah.

[Bozoma Saint John]

And the. And this band I actually bought from Priyanka Chopra's jeweler when I went to her wedding. And so I love India for his jewels, for his gems, all that stuff. And so that's when I was like, is he in India to get me some, like, a ring? That was the only thing that kind of my spidey senses were going, but I wasn't sure. And, you know, you know, you want to Ask all the way. So when he proposed, I was surprised because I. I wasn't expecting it. And then when he said he'd been in India for my ring, I was.

[Charlamagne Tha God (The Breakfast Club host)]

Like, put two and two together.

[Bozoma Saint John]

That's what it was for. My spidey senses weren't wrong.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

I was about to tell you the fact that Boza man was like, I'm traveling. I'm going to Rome today. It need tomorrow.

[Bozoma Saint John]

Right. Paris.

[Charlamagne Tha God (The Breakfast Club host)]

Like, that's not a flex.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

Like, you know, I'm just gonna stop to say what's up to the homies.

[Bozoma Saint John]

I have lunch.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

I'm gonna get some crepes.

[Bozoma Saint John]

We're enjoying life.

I'm really happy for you, though. I mean, you mentioned earlier, like, you know, even with your daughter and you dealing with grief, on grief, it's like, you know, your ex husband and then your house, and it's like kind of like watching a fairy tale play out. So, like, I'm happy to see that for you. I don't know what it's been like, because sometimes, too, I think when people go through such hard hits back to back, they shut down. They don't want to open up to stuff like that.

Yeah.

So I don't know what that's been like for you as well.

But that's the thing is that I don't know that you can get a wound and then, you know, want to repeat that same pain. You try to avoid it at all costs, you know? And so I think for me, part of it has been for sure, like, trying to understand how to heal my grief, but also having some courage.

[Charlamagne Tha God (The Breakfast Club host)]

Yeah.

[Bozoma Saint John]

You know, and being like, you know what, I could hurt before, but I'm a do it again.

[Charlamagne Tha God (The Breakfast Club host)]

Yeah.

[Bozoma Saint John]

And it won't hurt this time, you know, and that's the only way to actually move forward, is that you have to tell yourself that. Otherwise you will be in a cave. And I'm not even, like, judging anybody who's, like, lost a partner or, like, to death or any other way, and they feel trapped, you know, and feel like I can't get out of my own way. I don't even blame them for that, because I certainly understand. But, yeah, I love love, and I love happiness, and I love joy. And it is an active thing that I'm doing every day to choose it.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

Did he ask your daughter first?

[Charlamagne Tha God (The Breakfast Club host)]

Oh, he did.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

Oh, he did. I was gonna say.

[Bozoma Saint John]

Cause he did.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

When he asked me, like, hold on, let me talk to my daughter.

[Bozoma Saint John]

I come back like, yes, yes. Well, contrary to popular belief, I am a traditional woman. In that way that he flew to my father and asked him for my hand.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

That's the only way to do it.

[Bozoma Saint John]

And asked my mother, and he asked my daughter.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

Wow.

[Bozoma Saint John]

Yeah. Before asking me.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

I love it.

[Bozoma Saint John]

I'm like, check in with all my people.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

Did you check in first?

[Bozoma Saint John]

Just didn't check in.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

Did anybody say cool?

[Bozoma Saint John]

Everybody say, you all right, then you're all right.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

I love it.

[Bozoma Saint John]

I love it.

[Charlamagne Tha God (The Breakfast Club host)]

Now, now, do we have any other.

[Bozoma Saint John]

Little bosomus that we should.

[Charlamagne Tha God (The Breakfast Club host)]

That we need to be looking?

[Bozoma Saint John]

Right, right, right. Looking for down the line? No, not now, but we are interested.

[Charlamagne Tha God (The Breakfast Club host)]

Okay.

[Bozoma Saint John]

And so I have been on a fertility journey for the last six or seven months. It's been really tough. Yeah. You know, because I'm 48. I'm almost 49.

[Charlamagne Tha God (The Breakfast Club host)]

Damn, you look good.

[Bozoma Saint John]

Thank you, Jesus. Thank you, baby bottom. But look. And I mean, I don't know if, you know, you've. You've ever experienced it, but it's like going through the hormonal journey, you know, taking the medication, taking the injections, like getting the checkups, getting the eggs extracted. It is such a difficult process on your body. I mean, it's like not just the gaining weight and the bloating, but it's like the emotional roller coaster. And I'm trying to do a million things.

[Charlamagne Tha God (The Breakfast Club host)]

I know.

[Bozoma Saint John]

You know what I mean?

[Charlamagne Tha God (The Breakfast Club host)]

So much going on top of all your other businesses that you have.

[Bozoma Saint John]

Yes. And so it's like this, and it is a dream because unfortunately, when I was pregnant, I've been pregnant twice. And the first time I was pregnant, I developed preeclampsia early. And unfortunately, my daughter didn't survive her birth. I also had preeclampsia with Lael's pregnancy, and it was just traumatic, you know, both experiences were terrible, you know, and thank God that Lael survived, and she's such a wonderful person, and she gives me hope for the future. Absolutely. But I have to say that for the last 15 years, I was like, oh, I'm not going back there. I'm not going to try that again.

[Charlamagne Tha God (The Breakfast Club host)]

I understand.

[Bozoma Saint John]

You know, and it wasn't until I met Keely and he doesn't have any kids, that he was like, you know, should we try? And I was like, ooh, I don't know. I don't know if I can do it. And he was like, well, maybe we need to get a second and third and fourth opinion. And we found this amazing doctor, this black woman who deals in fertility, and she was like, yeah, we can do it. We should try. I Was like, okay, this is the last shot because girl is about to close up shop up here.

[Charlamagne Tha God (The Breakfast Club host)]

So let's go.

[Bozoma Saint John]

Let's do it. Let's try see what happens.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

For people that don't know how to do you meet Kelly?

[Bozoma Saint John]

How.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

How did y' all meet?

[Bozoma Saint John]

So this is a crazy story. How much time do we have?

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

We got. We got a little more time.

[Bozoma Saint John]

We got a little more time. Let me. Let me let it breathe. So, as I said, I. I choose love. But it's been difficult because I also don't want to bring any just random old people into my life, especially with my daughter. And I was in a relationship that I thought was going to be. You know, it was like, finally, after like 12 years, like, oh, my gosh, this is going to be it. And unfortunately ended terribly. You know, he stepped out. There was a lot of betrayal, a lot of broken heart going on. And I was in the middle of trying to gather the pieces of my heart and also try to figure out what I was going to do next with my career because I had retired from corporate life, published my book, and then I was like in this down period. So it was like I had a broken heart and I couldn't figure out what to do with my career. And I decided I want to start my own business, you know, in hair and beauty. And so I just poured my whole self into it. And I knew that I wanted to call the business Eve after my first daughter. And also after the fact that, of course, Eve, in the Bible and even science, is the first woman. And she's from Africa, so come on, you know what I mean? So I was like, okay, that's gonna be the one. And as a marketer, I'm always looking for inspiration, you know, in visuals and stories. And I did a lot of research about Eve, and I was looking for pictures of a black Eve. Couldn't find none. You know, they were all pale and redheaded.

[Charlamagne Tha God (The Breakfast Club host)]

Only the red, the rapper Eve came.

[Bozoma Saint John]

Let me tell you, Rough Riders was the only other one, okay? The only one. And I found, through the work, I found this artist, Harmonia Rosales, who's a black Cuban woman. She came. She's come to fame because she has taken, like the old masters work, like da Vinci and Michelangelo, and recreated them using black orishas from West Africa. So basically, it's like, you know, there's a famous painting called the Birth of Venus, and she redid it and she put a black oshun in the place of Venus because that's where they got it from, you Know, like, all of those Greek and Roman gods and goddesses came from the Orishas. And so I found her work because she has a new project coming. And I was like, oh, my God, gotta go see it. So I flew to Atlanta, where she was having an exhibition at Spelman, and made friends. And I was like, yo, I wanna be a collector of your work. Like, I was so in love with it. And I'll cut right to the end. I. A few months later, I went to her home for a private showing. And Ms. Tina's up in there. You know, everybody's at LeBron. Everybody's in there, you know, trying to collect her work. And her husband pulls me aside and he's like, hey, you know, Harm has been working on this piece. She thinks it's yours, by the way. Her wait list is, like, two years long. So I was like, oh, shoot, let me. So she takes me to the back to the studio, she unveils it, and it's a painting of Eve in the center of the painting and how, like, I just broke down into tears because I was like, yo, this has got to be a sign. And so we're. We're talking, we become much more friendly. Her husband says, hey, look, like, you know, this kind of inappropriate, but you know, what's up with your love life? Like, you're such a dope woman. Like this and that. And I was like, oh, I want to talk about. I don't have. I don't want to go there. And he was like, look, like, I know somebody who's interested in you because they saw a picture of you from the showing that we did in Atlanta. And I was like, oh, who's that? He's like, oh, it's my uncle. I was like, now, do I look like I date uncle?

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

Does that look like 80s?

[Bozoma Saint John]

Okay? Because this man grunt. That's why I was like, oh, it's giving uncle, right? And it was funny because I was sitting. I was sitting with my friend Aisha Hines, who's an actress, and she was like, girl, you probably want to see the uncle first. I was like, I don't want to see no uncle. But then went to his Instagram.

That's right.

And I was like, oh, see? Cause we black. And the thing is, in our families, sometimes uncles are like two years older. You know what I'm saying? So uncle was the right age and looked good, and it was Keely. And so he introduced us, and the rest is history.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

How was the first date?

[Bozoma Saint John]

The first day? Oh, my gosh, the first Date. He lives in San Diego and I live in Los Angeles.

[Charlamagne Tha God (The Breakfast Club host)]

So what country did y' all go to for the first day?

[Bozoma Saint John]

Well, girl, let me tell you, because the first and second date were fantastic. And then he asked me out on the third date, and I was like, ah, you know, I'm gonna be in Ghana for December and Christmas. I'm, like, gone for like a month. And he was like, all right, then I'll come to Ghana, girl.

[Charlamagne Tha God (The Breakfast Club host)]

Yeah.

[Bozoma Saint John]

And the man. Yeah. And he flew to Ghana and we had our third date on New Year's Eve.

[Charlamagne Tha God (The Breakfast Club host)]

And I would have proposed right there.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

There we go.

[Bozoma Saint John]

I love that. Yes. So he's wonderful. He's wonderful. Yes. But thank you. Very happy.

Well, you talked about the. The kind of talked about it.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

You know, she's stuttering. She's thinking about her home right now. She's like, my man, fly to Ghana for me.

[Bozoma Saint John]

I'm flying to Ghana for me. That's what we did.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

There you go.

[Bozoma Saint John]

We are. We are.

Look, we're going to Ghana for. Because if he. If he wanted to, he would.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

That's right.

[Bozoma Saint John]

All right.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

That's right.

[Bozoma Saint John]

And he do.

Okay, man. Okay. Amen. Amen.

So your new show on Brand with Jimmy Fallon on NBC, because I know you were filming for that show while Keely was getting the whole surprise engagement together. So it all kind of ties into where you are now career wise, too.

Oh, my gosh. It's such an amazing thing, I'm telling you. Yeah. Because the thing is, you know, over the course of my career, and it's weird because of course, like, you look at my resume and people are like, oh, my God, this amazing resume. You worked at Pepsi and Apple and Netflix and never Uber. Like, all these places. But when I tell you that the moves from place to place, people were not supportive, you know, they'd be like, oh, why would you leave this job to go over here? Like, when I joined Uber as a chief brand officer, I was the head of global marketing for Apple Music and launched it. Right. People were like, why would you leave Apple and go to Uber? Because at the time it was failing and it was like, you know, headed south. And I was like, look, this is where, like, my intuition is calling me. Like, that's where I got to go. And I don't care what your opinions are. Right. I did that over and over and over again. And when I joined the Housewives, people were like, yo, you're going to destroy your reputation. Like, you. You know, you're in the hall of fame. Like, why Would you go, yeah. Why would you fight with women? And I was like, no, but do I have to do that? Like, I don't feel like that's what I need to do. Like, why can't we showcase a different type of woman on this show? And it was in the first episode of the Housewives, where they were, you know, basically going over my career and my resume, and Jimmy's wife was watching the show.

[Charlamagne Tha God (The Breakfast Club host)]

Oh, wow.

[Bozoma Saint John]

And unbeknownst to me or. Or anybody else, Jimmy had had been trying to sell this show to NBC for two years. And it's a marketing reality competition show, kind of like Apprentice or Project Runway, etc. And when he. He was pitching, they told him that he needed somebody to legitimize the show. And so he met with a bunch of CMOs. Nobody was really clicking until his wife was like, yo, this woman bows right here. She's on Housewives. And he was like, I don't know if I was looking really for that kind of woman, you know, that kind of person. And. But he watched the season. He was like, you're great. And so he called me.

That's crazy.

We had a meeting, and it just felt like the perfect culmination of everything. You know, it's like, I have 25 years of corporate experience in marketing. I know how to manage the brands. Like, I know what a pitch looks like. And even in the episodes that we're filming, those. An example of Southwest, which was one of the clients on the show, where the assignment was to wrap a plane. And what's crazy is that 14 years ago, when I. Or 12 years ago, when I joined Beats and was running Beats Music, the way to get, you know, a lot of people to hear it was to put it into airplanes, right? And no one would do it except for Southwest. And then in my marketing with them, I was like, you know what? In order for people to see it, I want to wrap the plane. And I put headphones on all the planes. And so we're standing there, and they're giving the assignment to these contestants, like, okay, you got to wrap a plane, a Southwest plane, and talk about more legroom. And I was like, oh, I did that 12 years ago. You know what I mean? And so for me, it's been an incredible. Just. It feels like divine alignment, you know, that I've done the business, done the work. I'm on tv. I understand how to be fast and what. What it takes to be in front of the camera. And so this was just a perfect marriage of all those things.

[Charlamagne Tha God (The Breakfast Club host)]

I love it.

[Bozoma Saint John]

So all right, so I want to talk about the show because I do have some questions about the agency, but tying Real Housewives into the show, I know people were surprised. Not surprised because y' all have talked about kind of mending, but when we saw Kyle post your billboard.

Oh yeah.

Oh my God. Boy, excited. Really happy for you.

[Stephanie, Beatriz, and Melissa Fumero (More Better podcast hosts)]

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[Hunter (Hunting for Answers host)]

I'm Hunter, host of Hunting for Answers on the Black Effect Podcast Network. Join me every weekday as I share bite sized stories of missing and murdered Black women and girls in America. There are several ways we can all do better at protecting Black women. My contribution is shining a light on our missing sisters and amplifying their disregarded stories. Stories like Tameka Anderson. As she drove toward Galvez, she was in contact with several people talking on the phone as she made her way to what should have been a routine transaction. But Tameka never bought the car and she never returned home that day. One podcast, one mission. Save our girls. Join the search as we explore the chilling cases of Mrs. And murdered Black women and girls. Listen to Hunting for Answers every weekday on the Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Dr. J (Just Heal podcast host)]

But the humility in knowing that life is this classroom that we should never graduate from is what is going to keep you growing. And that's all that matters. World Mental Health Day is around the corner and on my podcast just heal with Dr. J, I dive into what it really means to care for your mind, body and spirit. From breaking generational patterns to building emotional capacity, healing is a journey, and wholeness is the destination.

[Bozoma Saint John]

I'm gonna walk away feeling very healed and feeling like, yes, I'm gonna continue. Continue my healing journey. And I. I'm gonna get some keys from you.

[Dr. J (Just Heal podcast host)]

Listen to just heal with Dr. J from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Anil Dash (mentioned guest)]

The Internet is something we make, not just something that happens to us.

[Bridget Todd (There Are No Girls On The Internet podcast host)]

I'm Bridget Todd, host of the tech and culture podcast. There are no girls on the Internet. There are no girls on the Internet is not just about tech. It's about culture and policy and art and expression and how we as humans and exist and fit with one another. In our new season, I'm talking to people like Anil Dash, an OG entrepreneur and writer who refuses to be cynical about the Internet.

[Anil Dash (mentioned guest)]

I love tech. You know, I've been a nerd my whole life, but it does have to be for something. Like, it's not just for its own sake.

[Bridget Todd (There Are No Girls On The Internet podcast host)]

It's a fascinating exploration about the power of the Internet for both good and bad.

[Anil Dash (mentioned guest)]

They use WhatsApp to get the price of rice at the market that is often 12 hours away. They're not going to be like, we don't like the terms of service, therefore, we're not trading rice this season.

[Bridget Todd (There Are No Girls On The Internet podcast host)]

It's an inspiring story that focuses on people as the core building blocks of the Internet.

[Anil Dash (mentioned guest)]

Platforms exist because of the regular people on them. And I think that's a real important story to keep repeating.

[Bridget Todd (There Are No Girls On The Internet podcast host)]

I created There are no girls on the Internet because the future belongs to all of us. New episodes every Tuesday and Friday.

[Bozoma Saint John]

Listen to.

[Bridget Todd (There Are No Girls On The Internet podcast host)]

There are no girls on the Internet on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Bozoma Saint John]

So in real life, like, once you guys do things like the reunions and the show is over and then. Cause it seems like y' all are up and down.

Yeah.

What's your relationship with her in real life when these things happen? Because then she's posting the billboard.

Right, right, right.

Okay. So they cool again.

Let me tell you something. These feelings are all real, okay? That's the one thing I didn't know going into the show, was that if you are, you know, not feeling somebody, you're not feeling them for real. You know what I mean? And I think the other thing that confuses people about these shows and I didn't know that when I went in is how much time, how much intense time you're spending with them. You know, it's like we filmed for three And a half months, you're spending eight hours, day, six days a week with these people. And it's not like you go in and you're like, oh, what's the weather like? No, you're like, what's happening with your divorce? Yep. You know what I mean? And you're talking deeply about these things, and so, of course, like, your emotions get caught up in it, and you get to know people so much better than you would in your regular life. I mean, at that time, it's like, look, I talked to my. I have three sisters, and I was talking to them less than I was talking to these women every day. And so last year, Kyle and I had a tough time because I just felt like she should be more open and honest about her life. I was like, hey, look, we're all sharing, you know, like, I'm going through a lot and I'm sharing, you know, why don't you share what's going on with you? And the thing is that, like, if we are meant to get to know each other or meant to be friends, like, if you're gonna keep it light with me, then I'm keeping the light with you. Right. You know what I'm saying? Like, why am I gonna tell you all my business and you don't want to tell me anything? And she felt away about it because I said she was cold, you know, but that was the truth. That was the experience I was having. But in this current time, we've crossed that bridge, you know, And I think maybe to, you know, give her some grace, it is that she also is going through a hard time, and she wasn't necessarily open to being like, oh, here's a new girl. Let me just tell her everything. And not everybody's the same. You know, Dorit was very open with, like, all of her drama. And so, yeah, we became closer, and I wasn't as close to Kyle, but we're in a much better place now. And so the joy that she feels about my success in this show with Fallon is real.

Now, on the show, you're basically like, tag teaming with Fallon, but he's the boss of the agency and you are the chief marketing officer, right?

Yeah.

So, I mean, you explain how you got there, but how real are, like, the campaigns? I've only watched some of the first episode.

Yeah.

And I know they're really dealing with the brand. You guys are working with Dunkin Donuts in the first episode?

Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Are they really taking these strategies and actually applying them, or is it just for the show.

Yes. And that's the hard thing is that they're spending millions of dollars. So after I leave here today, I'm going over the Dunkin Donuts, because the episode that just aired was about, you know, essentially recreating what the. Like, a deal would be, right? You walk into Dunkin Donuts, you want a breakfast deal. What is it gonna look like? And it is in the store right now, you know? And Dunkin, like, spent millions of dollars on this campaign, and every single brand that comes does that. And so these are real briefs. They have real business issues that need to be solved. And so, you know, it's like they're. They're trusting us as much as we are putting faith into what these creatives can do.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

It was so. It's so wild that you said that last night. I get at night when I have six kids, right. So at night when the kids are sleeping.

[Bozoma Saint John]

Yeah.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

I just have random thoughts, kind of like. Like, you do sometimes, right? And my random thought you last night was like, look, if I was trying to get in the marketing industry, in the commercial industry, I was like, what I would do is I would shoot commercials for every brand I could possibly do.

[Bozoma Saint John]

Yeah, that's what she was supposed to.

Use Instagram for, right?

[Charlamagne Tha God (The Breakfast Club host)]

But, like.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

And I would, like. Cause I'm watching the Yankee game, I would, like, I would do a commercial on Yankees to get more people in the seats, and I would just post it. And I said I would do every brand. One brand's gonna hit me. One brand's gonna hit me.

[Bozoma Saint John]

And I'm thinking to myself, why don't some of these kids that are getting.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

Out of college, why don't they do guerrilla marketing like that?

[Bozoma Saint John]

It's money.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

Like, what you've done. What you've done was guerilla marketing.

[Bozoma Saint John]

No, that's true. And you know what's so about that is that regardless of the company I've worked for, I've always been pitched like. And when people know that I work there, right? Because I've been a public figure in the business world for some time. And so if they know, it's like, oh, I'm the chief marketing officer of Netflix. You know how many films and TV shows I've been pitched over the years? A lot. You know, when I was at Apple, people like, oh, you know, I got a new idea for some technology. I got a new app that I want that I want to pitch you, you know, or at Pepsi, people be like, oh, I have a new drink flavor. Nutmeg. Pepsi. No, that disgusting. You know what I mean? Like, everybody has ideas. And so you're absolutely right. I don't know why people don't take it upon themselves to be like, you know what? Let me try something. Let me put some creative out there. And this is what now this show is doing is that these folks aren't, like, they're not practiced industry leaders. You know, there's a swim instructor in there. There's a real estate agent in there. Cause you can type it in with a phone.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

You have an iPhone. You can edit it on a computer. It's not like before where you needed a camera and you needed a red camera and had to. No, you can do everything on your phone. And like you said, if I'm looking for a business, I'm like, if I do 20 commercials, hopefully, if they're good, one of those 20 people reach out.

[Bozoma Saint John]

Exactly. And I think that's the opportunity right now. And I'm actually hoping that that's what happens, is that, like, people see this, because the only challenge with, like, up and doing something is that if you don't know what the brief is, you don't know what the business's strategy is or what they're trying to accomplish, you're gonna miss the mark, even if you have a great creative idea. But in this case, it's like, we' telling you, this is what Dunkin Donuts is trying to do. This what Southwest is trying to do. This is what KitchenAid is trying to do. And so I'm like, every week you should be, like, doing your own pitch and posting it and engaging and tagging everybody in it and being like, hey, KitchenAid, I got a better idea than these 10 people that are on the screen. That's right. You know what I mean? Because now you heard the strategy, you might as well, like, try and hit it. So for me, it's like, this is a real opportunity for new people to get into the industry and into the idea of marketing.

[Charlamagne Tha God (The Breakfast Club host)]

Going back to what you said when you said you were. You were at Netflix and people were trying to pitch films, or you were at, you know, Pepsi, somebody had a different flavor they wanted to pitch you every single time. What was the process to that? Like, what was it? Just no, or you gotta email somebody or whatever.

[Bozoma Saint John]

Yeah. That's the hard part is that before, it was almost impossible. You know, it was impossible for me to get into the building. You know what I mean? That, like, I mean, I crawled through the window in order to get into those rooms. It wasn't like, you Know, anybody opened the front door for me. Right. And so it's like, yeah, sometimes you. You know, I would see a great idea or hear a great idea, and I'd be like, all right, here. Call me, you know, or email me. Most of the time, the ideas weren't great because, yeah, they didn't know the strategy, and so it's impossible to then have the idea. But it's. It's interesting. There have been a number of times where I remember at PepsiCo, there was a. A janitor who would often be like, hey, like, you know, I have some ideas, you know, and he eventually is the one who created Flaming Hot Cheetos.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

I remember. I think we spoke.

[Bozoma Saint John]

Yeah.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

Or did I see a doc? I think I saw.

[Bozoma Saint John]

You might have seen a doc.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

I love his story. You know what I mean?

[Bozoma Saint John]

It's like, so the ideas really can come from everywhere, but you kind of have to have some insight into what's happening on the business in order to. To make it happen. Now, the good thing about this current time is that most brands aren't keeping their strategy behind closed doors. You know, if you go on their Instagram, you're probably gonna figure out their strategy real quick. Yeah. You just see, who are they targeting? What is the message that they have? What's a tagline? I mean, it's. It's almost easy. So to Envy's point, it's like you should have the gumption, you know, to try it. Like, that's the way greats are made. It's like, you try, and if you don't succeed, what they say, try and try again.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

Do you think AI is hurting a lot of the jobs that require thinking? Right. Because I can see somebody saying, yeah, Bose is good, but she's gonna cost us too much money.

[Bozoma Saint John]

Let me put this in the AI app and say, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

Dunkin Donuts Marketing. What would Bose do?

[Bozoma Saint John]

Enter.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

It's gonna come up with something that they've seen you do before.

[Bozoma Saint John]

Yeah, yeah.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

And they base it off things. So do you think that hurts the industry? Cause a lot of people, they live and die. By AI, I mean, AI artists. You got so many things right.

[Bozoma Saint John]

I know. Here's the interesting thing about AI. First of all, I'm not afraid of AI. You know, I've worked in tech for a decade, and all of the companies that were always pushing the limits, I mean, look, I was at the cusp when we started doing personalization and algorithms. You know what I mean? It was like, it was scary for people. They're like why do you know so much information about me? I'm like, because you'll be mad at me if I give you Metallica when you're looking for Snoop Dogg, you know what I'm saying? But whatever, now everybody's used to it, so it's okay. It's the same thing with AI. It's like, look, we use it constantly anyway, it's been used now. It's like in the hands of consumers. And so it feels a little scary or it feels like, oh my gosh, it's gonna take this job or that job. But honestly, it's been in existence for some time. And on top of that, you gotta remember that AI uses information that already exists. It doesn't create things that don't exist in the world. And so that's where I feel like humanity is at its best. Like, we are the dreamers, we're the imaginers. We're the ones who are thinking about what could be the possibilities. AI doesn't have that. That option. And so it's, it's pulling from data that already exists and then putting it together and then sort of guessing and estimating what could happen. You know, there's this idea of like a hallucinating AI, right? Or ChatGPT, where it's like it makes up something because there's no space, you know, and it's usually not accurate. And now I'm not saying that AI is not going to get better. It certainly will, and perhaps at some point is going to do a good job of predicting. But I still think that from a creative standpoint, there are nuances that are going to be hard to solve in tech that humans can't do.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

The only problem with AI, the biggest problem I have with AI is a lot of people don't fact check, right? They think AI is fact check, right? That's A and B. And I can't. And I can't hate on this too much because I think I would do it too when I'm in college. And you have to write a paper, right?

[Bozoma Saint John]

Oh, Lord.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

You had to research, right? You had to go to the library or you had to look it up. You had to Google. You had to find out what the information.

[Bozoma Saint John]

Yes.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

Think about it like this. You have your daughter here, right? She could just say, I have to write a paper on this, that and the other. Enter. It's gonna give you 10 pages.

[Bozoma Saint John]

Yes.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

Now, as a smart student, all you gotta do is go through the 10 pages and change words to make it sound like yourself. But pretty much it's done. But how does that help you? It doesn't, because you're not necessarily learning the subject. You're not learning. You're just printing and you're getting an A on a paper. Does that help you in the long run?

[Bozoma Saint John]

See, now here's where I have a controversial point of view. I actually do think it's. It's. It's good.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

Okay?

[Bozoma Saint John]

Because it is like, and this is why I disagree, when people say that they don't want to give their kids iPads or have them on the computer or this and that. Because I'm like, But then you are depriving them of understanding how to cope in a world that does that. Facts, you know? So the point is that AI, ChatGPT, all these programs are here to stay. And so I would prefer that my daughter understand how to utilize ChatGPT, AI and all these other programs and get the right answer, because you're only gonna get the right answer if you put in the right questions. And so she doesn't have that practice in 10 years. She will be lost. That's true. Because everyone else out here would have perfected how to get the right answer out of AI, and she won't know.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

I would have been slutting AI out.

[Bozoma Saint John]

When I was in college.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

What's crazy, Hampton University would have been aiu. I would have been using that all over.

[Bozoma Saint John]

Yes, but now that's a challenge for professors.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

You're right.

[Bozoma Saint John]

Right.

And teachers. It's like, okay, how are you going to modify the way that you teach so that you can make sure that your students are retaining information and knowing how to utilize these subjects? Because, look, now I'm gonna. I already told you, I'm 48 years old. When I got to college, we didn't have a computer lab. Okay? There was no. There was no such thing.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

What broke ass college did you go to? Look, we went to college around the same time. Hampton had a computer lab.

[Bozoma Saint John]

No, there was no computer lab. I was there with the computer lab open, and you had to sign up on the sheet. You know what I mean? To go in. Everybody don't get their own computer.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

We have our own computer.

[Bozoma Saint John]

No, we were in the library out here. No, look, it didn't exist. It did not exist. And so you have to go to the library. We had the encyclopedias. He had to find to. L. You know what I'm saying?

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

Had to go to encyclopedia.

[Bozoma Saint John]

It was terrible.

[Charlamagne Tha God (The Breakfast Club host)]

But even from that standpoint, right, you don't want. You don't think it's important for kids to know that part of it too have a foundation. Cause like what if.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

No, now she sound old.

[Charlamagne Tha God (The Breakfast Club host)]

No, you gotta think about it though.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

Because my kids don't know nothing about no damn encyclopedia.

[Charlamagne Tha God (The Breakfast Club host)]

All technology, all technology. We know with one it's glitches.

[Bozoma Saint John]

Yes it is.

[Charlamagne Tha God (The Breakfast Club host)]

It can shut down, it can be taken away. I know it's here to stay. But like say if it's a glitch or something, or something don't go right.

[Bozoma Saint John]

And stuff can go wrong too, then.

[Charlamagne Tha God (The Breakfast Club host)]

Stuff definitely can go wrong. We would need to be able to know how to go and search for stuff in books or whatever, you know.

[Bozoma Saint John]

But I believe in humanity. I'm like, if something happened and all technology failed, I think we would find our way back, you know. However, I do believe that tech is here to stay. So my example with like going to the library and looking through the encyclopedia is that once Google was at our fingertips and search engines were at our fingertips. When was the last time you looked in encyclopedia? You know, you need to understand how to search for the right thing and get the right answer and discern what is truth from fiction. Now that's the skill you need today. You don't need to understand how to like find llamas in the encyclopedia, you know, I need to know that a llama does not look like an alpaca, you know, when I search for it on Google and if I see a picture of the two, I can discern which one is which. And that is the trick that we need to instill in our children and in educators and everybody else is that like we've got to teach the new skills. We can't just depend on what happened 15 years ago.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

You can take a picture of an animal right now, put in ChatGPT and say what is this in there? That's exactly what it is. Oh my God, that's crazy.

[Bozoma Saint John]

Matter of fact, I'm great. Fanta. Tell me. And also what is this bump on my toe? Tell me what that is then.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

That now that's where it gets dangerous.

[Bozoma Saint John]

You see what I mean?

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

Cuz now you got a bump on your toe, you think it's cancer and.

[Bozoma Saint John]

You should take your ass to the doctor, you know what I'm saying? ChatGPT is just like, this looks abnormal.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

You think you got cancer for the.

[Bozoma Saint John]

Weekend, go to the doctor and you died yesterday and you didn't go then that's your fault. You know what I mean?

There's a woman on the show speaking of age and different like gender just eras knowing. No, because look There's a woman on the show, and one of the things that stuck out for me, for me with her was she says, I can't believe I'm here and I'm doing this at 50.

Yeah. Yeah.

Are marketing agencies hiring younger because they expect you to know all the stuff y' all just talked about? Is that so? Yes, people are getting aged out of hiring.

For sure. For sure. Because the thing is that marketing and a lot of creative industries are young people's games, you know, Because I think the challenge with being older and more mature is that you've lived life and so you censor yourself. You know, you'll be like, oh, this idea is not good because I tried it 12, 12 years ago and it didn't work. Or like, oh, I saw this other person do it, you know. You ever met like a 17 year old with an idea?

[Charlamagne Tha God (The Breakfast Club host)]

Yeah.

[Bozoma Saint John]

Look, they out here, they think it's the. They think it's the best thing to ever happen. And it probably is, you know, because they have gumption and they have imagination and they are fearless because they haven't seen it fail. But us, you'll be like, oh, try and do this new thing. I'm like, ah, that's not gonna work. Because XYZ thing, it's not gonna work because we already tried it. Meanwhile, the 17 year old is like, I'm gonna try it. I don't know any different.

[Charlamagne Tha God (The Breakfast Club host)]

Yeah.

[Bozoma Saint John]

And so, yeah, I think the creative fields and for sure, marketing and advertising is geared towards younger people. But you do need the maturity of time to be able to have discipline, you know, and be like, okay, look, here's a business problem. We gotta focus on that. And so that's why I feel like it kind of balances itself out because you need more mature people who have time on the books. Right. To be able to drive the business. Any young people who are fearless to come up with the ideas.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

That's right.

[Bozoma Saint John]

Did you. Were you at all nervous? I know you guys talk about marketing and numbers and stuff on your show, but were you at all nervous when all of the Kimmel stuff was happening?

Oh, yeah.

Just because. Because I know you guys bring some of those talk show hosts onto your show. You're like, dang, I just got this job.

Yeah, yeah, no, of course. I mean, I think we should all be working. Yeah. You know what I mean? I'm like, yeah, for sure. When it's like, Colbert got fired and then Kimmel got suspended, I'm like, looking at Fallon like, hey, they don't tell the story now, you know what I mean?

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

What you doing?

[Bozoma Saint John]

What you talking about?

[Charlamagne Tha God (The Breakfast Club host)]

Right?

[Bozoma Saint John]

And the thing that I respect about him so much is that he definitely wasn't trying to censor himself. He's like, hey, this is what I do. This is all I know. I've got to keep going. And I respect that because for me, it's like, look, I've been in playing rooms where it would be easier not to be black. It'd be easier not to bring my perspective that is so unique to everybody else's in the room. But you do it anyway, even though you know somebody's gonna be like, ah, you said the wrong thing, and you should be fired. You know how many threats I've had around that? And that had nothing to do with the president, you know? And so I feel like at this moment in time, there is so much to be concerned about. And I wish that more people were anxious about that and saying, like, well, how do we make sure that we protect all of these, like, areas that we've created so that we can actually continue to be creative, to be funny, to be a little outlandish, you know, without having to censor?

I feel you. I got one last Housewives question. Okay, taking a left turn. But I just thought about this Garcelle. I'm following you guys. After she left the show.

Oh, gosh. Yeah.

So she really did unfollow y'.

All. Yeah.

Wasn't, like, a fan theory.

No.

Why?

You know, that's a really hard question. I wish I knew. I really do like, this. Not even, like, me being politically correct. Like, I wish I knew. When I went on Watch what Happens Live with Andy right after she decided to resign, and, you know, he asked me how I felt about. And I was like, man, I just. I wish she didn't, because I would like to actually work out whatever the challenges were that she was having on the show or with me personally. Right. And it just. You just don't have that option. And so it's a lot like having a breakup where you don't get access to the person anymore, and you kind of have to have closure on your own. And a lot of times people are like, oh, they're not over the thing because they didn't get their closure. But I'm like, you could close that door yourself, too.

[Charlamagne Tha God (The Breakfast Club host)]

Yeah.

[Bozoma Saint John]

So if that's what she needed to do, then good for her. I mean, I still follow her. I know I'm still interested in what she's doing. I'm still cheering. But, you know, you attempted to Try.

And reach out to her and talk to her.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I did nothing.

No, no, no. She responded, but it wasn't. It wasn't like, oh, let's go. Grab.

[Charlamagne Tha God (The Breakfast Club host)]

Glad you want to follow me.

[Bozoma Saint John]

You know what I mean? Yeah, no, no, I was just like, hey, look, like I w. The very best, you know, and I. I want you to succeed and I wish this would have worked out. And she said, thank you, Bose, and that, you know, that's it. So it's amicable.

Yeah.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

I do have a question now. Now you're engaged.

[Bozoma Saint John]

Yes.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

How much do you think y' all gonna spend on the wedding?

[Charlamagne Tha God (The Breakfast Club host)]

Oh, God.

[Bozoma Saint John]

A lot of money. A lot. Because I want two weddings. Well, we want two weddings. One in Los Angeles.

[Charlamagne Tha God (The Breakfast Club host)]

You said it right first.

[Bozoma Saint John]

I know, girl, you got it. I slipped up like a bow.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

I want two weddings.

[Bozoma Saint John]

I'm eating weed. Why are you calling me out?

[Charlamagne Tha God (The Breakfast Club host)]

I'm sorry.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

Damn it.

[Bozoma Saint John]

Yes. Well, we want one. We both want1 in LA. I really want one in Ghana. Okay, so we're gonna do both and it's gonna cost a lot of money. Yeah, I mean, look.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

Jesus, who pays for that?

[Bozoma Saint John]

Well, we both do. Damn.

[Charlamagne Tha God (The Breakfast Club host)]

Look, this man said, look, you got the wedding. I took. I flew to Ghana for the third date. Yeah, you got the wedding this Saturday.

[Bozoma Saint John]

And when to go get the ring.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

Right.

[Bozoma Saint John]

Let's go get the ring in Mumbai. I mean, you know, he knows who he's marrying.

[Charlamagne Tha God (The Breakfast Club host)]

Yes.

[Bozoma Saint John]

You know what I'm saying? There's no surprises. There's no surprises. Like, we gonna do it big. Yeah. I want everybody there.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

Jesus Christ.

[Bozoma Saint John]

If he would have just got engaged and he about to have to spin.

Oh, that's the thing. Yes. Oh, yeah. You're gonna have to pay for it.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

Gotta gauge in Greece and he can also.

[Bozoma Saint John]

Oh, my God.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

Yeah.

[Bozoma Saint John]

So, yeah, you're gonna have to pay for that.

[Charlamagne Tha God (The Breakfast Club host)]

You see, he doesn't look excited because he's already counting his pockets right now.

[Bozoma Saint John]

That's a lot of money.

[Charlamagne Tha God (The Breakfast Club host)]

And his daughter and her fiance want to get married at the same castle that the Casey's was married at.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

I got married 24 years.

[Charlamagne Tha God (The Breakfast Club host)]

Exactly.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

So the price was.

[Bozoma Saint John]

I'm like, there's inflation.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

So what I got to do.

[Bozoma Saint John]

Yes, this is a lot of money.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

And they was like, yeah, that's for the venue. I still gotta do.

[Bozoma Saint John]

Yep. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God (The Breakfast Club host)]

They done renovated and everything.

[Bozoma Saint John]

Yeah, Exactly. We need 100 racks. You know what I'm saying?

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

100 racks.

[Bozoma Saint John]

I wish it was just. Sorry. Yes. That's the starting price.

Price of just the.

You saying yeah. Of just getting the things.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

The other day they was like, we give you 10% off. I like 10%.

[Bozoma Saint John]

What the. Yeah. What's 10% going to do?

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

Damn. Oh my goodness.

[Bozoma Saint John]

Yeah, no, I don't, I don't mind spending. You know, I just feel like these moments are. They are so special, you know, so hard. Yes, yes. And been through so much. I'm like, I want to celebrate. I want everybody to be there. I want to have a great time and I'm going spend the money to do it. So. Yeah. Yes.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

Extra workers on the weekend. I can help. I need extra money. If you have a dog, I clean up the dog poop, you know, at the wedding.

[Charlamagne Tha God (The Breakfast Club host)]

I'mma do the concert at the wedding.

[Bozoma Saint John]

I mean, you might need a host at the reception. Jess could do the comedy.

[Charlamagne Tha God (The Breakfast Club host)]

There we go.

[Bozoma Saint John]

You see, this is what I'm talking about. You know, black people, we need. We need a work. Wait invoices.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

I just told we working.

[Bozoma Saint John]

I said this ain't no favor. You know, I love that. I love that. Cuz I do believe in paying for your friends businesses. You know what I mean? Support your friend.

I got LLC you can support.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

I charge 100,000 an hour for the castle. That's right, Ozma. We appreciate you for joining us.

[Bozoma Saint John]

Thank you. It was always a pleasure.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

Make sure you check out on Brand with Jimmy Fallon. It's out right now on abc. And thank you so much at the Breakfast Club. Good morning.

[Bozoma Saint John]

Thank you. Ah, y', all, I love you so much. Hold up.

[DJ Envy (The Breakfast Club host)]

Every day I wake up.

[Bozoma Saint John]

Wake your ass up. Y' all done.

[Hunter (Hunting for Answers host)]

Short on time, but big on true crime. On a recent episode of the podcast Hunting for Answers, I highlighted the story of 19 year old Lachey Dungey. But she never knocked on that door. She never made it inside. And that text message would be the last time anyone would ever hear from her. Listen to Hunting for answers from the Black Effect podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Stephanie, Beatriz, and Melissa Fumero (More Better podcast hosts)]

Hey guys, it's Stephanie, Beatriz and Melissa Fumero. And this is more better. We are jumping right in and ready to hear from your thoughts, your questions, your feelings about socks with sandals. And we're ready to share some possibly questionable advice. And hot takes.

[Bozoma Saint John]

God sucks so hard though. I'm so sorry.

[Stephanie, Beatriz, and Melissa Fumero (More Better podcast hosts)]

Can you out petty them? Can you match their pettiness for funsies? Yeah, all the things. Because aren't we all trying to get a little more better? Listen to more better on the Iheartradio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Dr. J (Just Heal podcast host)]

I love that you created this system that revolves around you, creating pockets of of peace. World Mental Health Day is around the corner. And on my podcast, just heal with Dr. J, I dive into what it really means to care for your mind, body and spirit. From breaking generational patterns to building emotional.

[Bozoma Saint John]

Capacity, I'm going to walk away feeling like, yes, I'm going to continue my healing journey.

[Dr. J (Just Heal podcast host)]

Listen to just heal with Dr. J from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

[Dr. Leslie (Forensic psychologist, Intentionally Disturbing podcast host)]

Do you want to hear the secrets of psychopaths, murderers, sex offenders? In this episode, I offer tips from them. I'm Dr. Leslie, forensic psychologist. This is a podcast where I cut through the noise with real talk.

[Bozoma Saint John]

When you were described to me as a forensic psychologist, I was like, snooze. We ended up talking for hours and I was like, this girl is my best friend.

[Dr. Leslie (Forensic psychologist, Intentionally Disturbing podcast host)]

Let's talk about safety and strategies to protect yourself and your loved ones. Listen to Intentionally disturbing on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts us or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Bozoma Saint John]

This is an I Heart podcast.