INTERVIEW: Chuck D & Kurtis Blow Talk Hip-Hop Ethics, The Problem With Battles, Radio Armageddon + More

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Breakfast Club – Interview with Chuck D & Kurtis Blow Release Date: May 20, 2025

In this enlightening episode of The Breakfast Club, hosted by DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, and Charlamagne Tha God, legendary hip-hop figures Chuck D and Kurtis Blow delve deep into the ethics of hip-hop, the complexities of rap battles, the inception of "Radio Armageddon," and the evolving landscape of the hip-hop industry. The conversation offers a rich exploration of hip-hop's past, present, and future, providing invaluable insights for enthusiasts and newcomers alike.

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1. Introduction of Guests [02:29 – 02:57]

DJ Envy introduces the esteemed guests, Chuck D of Public Enemy and the Godfather of Hip-Hop, Kurtis Blow. The hosts warmly welcome them, setting the stage for a profound discussion on hip-hop's trajectory.

• DJ Envy [02:37]: "We got the legendary Chuck D, of course, from Public Enemy. Welcome, brother."
• Charlamagne Tha God [02:38]: "Come on now."

2. The Legacy of Chuck D and Kurtis Blow [03:02 – 05:34]

The conversation begins with Michael Kasin highlighting Kurtis Blow's pioneering role in hip-hop as the first solo artist to be signed to a major record label. He underscores Blow's significant contributions to the genre's foundation.

• Michael Kasin [03:02]: "He's the pioneer because he is the first solo artist to record with a major record label of rap music and hip hop."

Kurtis Blow pays homage to the forefathers of hip-hop, mentioning influential figures like DJ Kool Herc, Afrika Bambaataa, and groups such as The Furious Five and The Treacherous Three.

• Kurtis Blow [05:00]: "People like Pete, DJ Jones and Cool Herc, Africa, Bamba, Grandmaster Flash, Melly Mel... we will move forward to the future and inspire the future generations to come."

3. Hip-Hop's Corporate Evolution: Gains and Losses [05:34 – 11:26]

Charlamagne Tha God poses a critical question about hip-hop's transformation as it became more corporate, asking what the culture lost and gained in the process.

• Charlamagne Tha God [05:34]: "What do you think the culture lost when hip hop went corporate? And what do you think it gained?"

Michael Kasin responds by discussing the commercialization's impact, highlighting the loss of grassroots authenticity and the dilution of the genre's original message.

• Michael Kasin [05:42]: "It grows big on the top, heavy side, but all the bottom in the middle started getting gutted out."

He draws parallels to other industries, noting how major entities can overshadow individual artists, leading to diminished creative control.

4. Challenges in Modern Hip-Hop: Screen Age and Netiquette [07:19 – 11:26]

The hosts transition to the challenges posed by the digital age, particularly focusing on the lack of netiquette among today's "netizens."

• Michael Kasin [07:33]: "What has taught them how to engage on their devices?"

Charlamagne emphasizes the emotional disconnect fostered by social media, making genuine human interaction more challenging.

• Charlamagne Tha God [07:28]: "But it's hard to have that now because of the social media, because you got human emotion and then an ability to be able to go directly to the consumer."

5. The Role of Rap Battles in Hip-Hop [48:26 – 49:35]

DJ Envy steers the conversation towards rap battles, questioning their influence on the hip-hop culture.

• DJ Envy [48:39]: "What do you think about the rap battles of today and how it affects hip hop? Like the Kendrick and Drake and like those big battles that we've seen. Is it helpful? Is it worse? Does it hurt? Does it help?"

Michael Kasin critiques the superficial nature of modern rap battles, advocating for more substantive lyrical content.

• Michael Kasin [48:23]: "The topics ain't vast. If you want to get at somebody, vast your topics and also vast your vocabulary."

6. Hip-Hop's Intersection with Social Issues and Civil Rights [62:46 – 67:24]

The discussion deepens as they explore hip-hop's roots in the civil rights movement and its role in addressing social injustices.

• Kurtis Blow [62:46]: "The alliance is an organization that is a labor force organization. There needs to be a system to monitor to actually communicate and educate to the youth, to our community."

Kurtis shares anecdotes about interactions with influential leaders like Jesse Jackson, emphasizing hip-hop's responsibility as a voice for the black community.

• Kurtis Blow [46:23]: "This thing called rap, you guys are the new icons of our people, the new heroes of the civil rights movement."

7. Hip-Hop Alliance: Protecting Artists' Rights [77:50 – 80:44]

Curtis Blow introduces the Hip Hop Alliance, a labor organization dedicated to safeguarding artists' rights, ensuring fair wages, royalties, and healthcare benefits.

• Curtis Blow [77:54]: "We are out there fighting for you to make sure this journey that you are on in your career is successful."

The alliance offers resources for dealing with managers, agents, record companies, and handles publishing, streaming, and trademarks.

8. The Influence of Technology and Social Media on Hip-Hop [74:09 – 91:40]

The panel discusses the pervasive impact of technology and social media on hip-hop, touching on issues like ageism, information overload, and the challenges of maintaining authenticity in a digital world.

• Michael Kasin [81:21]: "You're in the disinformation age... it's a non-stop blizzard."

They explore how artists can navigate the digital landscape, leveraging technology while preserving the genre's core values.

9. The Future of Hip-Hop and Its Role in Society [91:40 – 93:27]

As the conversation draws to a close, Chuck D and Kurtis Blow reflect on hip-hop's future, stressing the importance of empowering the next generation and using hip-hop as a tool for positive change.

• Curtis Blow [92:30]: "Hip hop is the number one stream music around the globe right now. We are the voice of the people. And let's take it further."

They encourage young artists to embrace authenticity, responsibility, and community engagement.

10. Conclusion: Empowering the Next Generation [93:24 – End]

The episode concludes with heartfelt acknowledgments and a call to action for listeners to support and uplift the hip-hop community.

• Kurtis Blow [92:49]: "The future is yours... any time is the right time to do the right thing."
• Michael Kasin [93:58]: "The Hip Hop Church, coming June 5th up in Harlem. 160 West 146th Street."

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Notable Quotes:

• Michael Kasin [05:42]: "It grows big on the top, heavy side, but all the bottom in the middle started getting gutted out."
• Kurtis Blow [05:00]: "We will move forward to the future and inspire the future generations to come."
• DJ Envy [48:39]: "Is it helpful? Is it worse? Does it hurt? Does it help?"
• Curtis Blow [77:54]: "We are out there fighting for you to make sure this journey that you are on in your career is successful."
• Michael Kasin [81:21]: "You're in the disinformation age... it's a non-stop blizzard."
• Curtis Blow [92:30]: "Hip hop is the number one stream music around the globe right now. We are the voice of the people. And let's take it further."

Key Topics Discussed:

• Hip-Hop Ethics: The importance of maintaining authenticity and responsibility within the culture.
• Rap Battles: Their role in fostering competition and skill versus promoting superficial diss tracks.
• Radio Armageddon: The creation and impact of Kasin's innovative radio project.
• Corporate Influence: How commercialization has both expanded hip-hop's reach and diluted its original message.
• Technology's Impact: Navigating the digital landscape, combating misinformation, and the challenges posed by social media.
• Hip Hop Alliance: Advocacy for artists' rights, ensuring fair compensation, and providing essential support services.
• Social Responsibility: Hip-hop as a modern extension of the civil rights movement, addressing societal issues, and empowering youth.
• Future of Hip-Hop: Emphasizing the genre's potential for positive change and the responsibility of established artists to mentor the next generation.

Conclusion

This episode serves as a profound exploration of hip-hop's rich history, its current challenges, and its promising future. Chuck D and Kurtis Blow offer a blend of historical perspective, personal anecdotes, and critical analysis, urging listeners to uphold the genre's foundational ethics while adapting to an ever-evolving cultural landscape. Their insights underscore hip-hop's enduring power as a voice for the marginalized and a catalyst for societal transformation.

Transcript

[Michael Kasin]

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[DJ Envy]

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[Michael Kasin]

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[DJ Envy]

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[Michael Kasin]

Or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Michael kasin, founder and CEO of 3C Ventures and your guide on Good Company, the podcast where I sit down with the boldest innovators shaping what's next. In this episode, I'm joined by Angeli Su, CEO of Tubi. We dive into the competitive world of streaming.

[DJ Envy]

What others dismiss as niche, we embrace as core. There's so many stories out there and if you can find a way to.

[Michael Kasin]

To curate and help the right person.

[DJ Envy]

Discover the right content. The term that we always hear from our audience is that they feel seen.

[Michael Kasin]

Listen to Good company on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. The number one hit podcast, the Girlfriends, is back with something new, the Girlfriend Spotlight. Each week you'll hear women triumph over adversity. You'll meet Tracey, who survived a terrify attack. I remember that feeling of okay, this is how I die and turn that darkness into light. I want to take over the world and just leave this place better than I found it. So come and join our girl gang. Listen to the Girlfriend Spotlight on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. Wake that ass up early in the morning. The Breakfast Club.

[DJ Envy]

Morning everybody. It's DJ Envy. Just hilarious Charlemagne.

[Michael Kasin]

Tha guy.

[DJ Envy]

We are the Breakfast Club. We got some special icons and legends in the building.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Come on now.

[DJ Envy]

We got the legendary Chuck D, of course, from Public Enemy welcome, brother.

[Michael Kasin]

Hello. It's good seeing y' all.

[Curtis Blow]

Now.

[Michael Kasin]

This is.

[DJ Envy]

This is a great surprise.

[Michael Kasin]

Yeah, man. I had to roll up here with the Godfather.

[DJ Envy]

That's right. We have the Godfather, Curtis Blow. Welcome, brother. How you feeling?

[Curtis Blow]

I'm feeling mighty fine. Thank you for having me.

[DJ Envy]

Great to see both of you brothers.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

What does Curtis Blow mean to you, Chuck? But also the culture of hip hop.

[Michael Kasin]

He's number one. He is the pioneer because he is the first solo artist to record with a major record label of rap music and hip hop, and at the same time, was the first to be on a major record label. So he left that indelible mark, 1979 and 1980, just to, you know, and that was the jump. And you're talking about a city that has had a million MCs and rappers and DJs. That's why it's important to be here at Power today. Just to say everybody else has been in this city that would have been born and have. Have passed on since.

[DJ Envy]

That's right.

[Michael Kasin]

You know, this is the city that made it. Just like I had to represent, just for a quick second. The Nixon.

[DJ Envy]

That's right.

[Michael Kasin]

Nixon 6.

[DJ Envy]

That's right.

[Michael Kasin]

This goes out to my man CP. The franchise over there. So. But basically my talk today on the radio station, I cannot have the brand associated with all the things I say. I say the Godfather's right here. And yeah, I came up here to talk about a recording that was released on Def Jam called Radio Armageddon. I'm. But I'm over at Def Jam, sort of like the consigliere, like the, like the Tom and the Godfather, you know, like what Tunzi. Belonging is done, right? And anytime they, they, they run into a situation, I. I remind the major labels and Def Jam and everybody else, you got accountability and responsibility. And 1979, this man recorded with Mercury Records. I had to been, you know, and I benefited off to that because I did a solo record with Mercury in 1996. Wow. Thank you, Kurt.

[Curtis Blow]

Oh, you're welcome, man. I just want to shout out all the legends who have pioneered this thing before myself.

[Michael Kasin]

Name them.

[Curtis Blow]

Kurt inspired me.

[Michael Kasin]

Name them, Kurt.

[Curtis Blow]

People like Pete, DJ Jones and Cool Herc, Africa, Bamba, Grandmaster, Florida Flash, Melly Mel, you know, DJ Hollywood, Love, Buck Starsky, Eddie Chiba, the Furious Five, the Funky Four, the Fantastic Five, the Treacherous Three, the Fearless Four. So many groups, man. I love you all, man. Thank you, thank you. Thank you for inspiring me. And we will move forward to the future and inspire the future generations to come.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I want to ask you, Mr. Blow, like, what do you think I'm gonna ask both of y' all, what do you think the culture lost when hip hop went corporate? And what do you think he gained?

[Michael Kasin]

You want to answer that? Well, number one, you know, the, the. It grows big on the top, heavy side, but all the bottom in the middle started getting gutted out. Don't you all get a little envious when you see every single NBA player? Well, 90% of them, they carry themselves on interviews. We learned in the beginning when Curtis Blow did an interview, he spoke for us on tv. Whether it's Don, he's the first to get interviewed by Don Cornelis. He's the first to get interviewed by Dick Clark. So we come from the rap circles doing our DJs and MCing and all that. And here's this man being interviewed. He's speaking for all of us. Now, he could go up there on some goon squad issue, right? But, but what would that do? Would that, would that have elevated the art form into an area where we started discussing what, you know, what we gained and what we lost? You know, every time you look at an NBA player, 85, well, 95% of them an NFL player or major league baseball player, even if they doing English or Espanol, and a lot of it's Espanol, they sell the. They have to sell the game. They have to sell the game to the fans. And the thing that we've lost back to your question to God, is that it's been piss poor in public relations and human resources. Every big business makes sure that they're tied and tight with their public relations and their human resource department. If not, I mean, this radio station probably does it. You know, a letter from an old lady probably still works in this building. Old white lady.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

But it's hard to have that now because of the social media, because you got human emotion and then an ability to be able to go directly to the consumer.

[Michael Kasin]

Screen ages have never been taught netiquette.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Screen ages.

[Michael Kasin]

You don't have citizens today. You have netizens. They're not citizens anymore. They're netizens. They're screen agents. They're engaged by everything in and out of the screen. Their life goes through a screen. But what, but what has taught them how to engage on their devices?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That's true.

[Michael Kasin]

What has taught them how to engage on their gadgets? At the end of the day, there's only two phone companies is Android and Apple, right? At the end of the day, they're the keeper elves looking at everybody. It's like, yeah, you know, saying, do whatever you want. Still going to roll down our river. So when we start to understand, you know, what's behind what, you know, we can, okay, this is the way everybody lives. Okay. How do we manage that? Same thing with life. And, you know, Curtis Blow is instrumental with Scott, actually. He'll tell you he'll speak for himself because he taught all us the first hip hop union. So the whole thing is all the information that we say that we have in these gadgets and devices. Oh, oh, we could get it quick and all that. You know, we are not equipped on how to navigate that information. Oh, yo, we need a union. I've heard how many people we've heard talk about we need a union.

[Curtis Blow]

Oh, yeah.

[Michael Kasin]

When it's easy to go, boop, boop, boop. Hip hop union, Hip hop alliance. So we have these things, we really don't know how to use them.

[DJ Envy]

But why don't you think. Why do you think it's so difficult? Cause I think about it all the time. I think about the sacrifices that you brothers made in this music industry. Right. That a lot of these younger generation have no ideas. But they eat off of.

[Michael Kasin]

Right?

[DJ Envy]

And they're eating a lot of them.

[Michael Kasin]

You got people that play ball all the time. They wear the kicks. Also, they wear jerseys. They might not know what the jerseys are, but the NBA wear the Bill Russell jersey. It's like, yo, I'm wearing number six.

[DJ Envy]

But NBA, they have a union where they pay back and they make sure their athletes pay.

[Michael Kasin]

So you think that came from the players, or you think that came from the administrative body that was protecting diminishing? The players forced it, huh?

[DJ Envy]

I think the players forced it.

[Michael Kasin]

No. In 1979, the NBA was almost called the N I G G E R Basketball Association. White folks were starting not to come in the seats. David Stern came along, 1980, said, we gotta make some changes. 1984, when this man made the song. What's the name of that song, Kurt?

[Curtis Blow]

1984, 40 years ago last year. And we actually did a remix of the song for the anniversary. And it's called basketball 2.0. I remember where I'm shouting out the new players of today. You know, like LeBron James and Steph Curry and Jai and Jalen Brunson and Cat and all the whole team of today. And it's incredible.

[Michael Kasin]

1984, David Stern also took the jewelry off the player's necks and earrings out. Cause he felt that there was a overlapping of black culture, especially northeastern black Culture, he didn't include the West. West wasn't at that point yet.

[Curtis Blow]

Right.

[Michael Kasin]

I gotta take this. These Duke, you remember with ballplayers used to have dookie gold chains, especially Dow Dawkins earrings and all that. David Stern says, we gotta stop that. You're scaring the white folk. So that corporation, which will probably lead into being fantastic or bigger than ever, has managed itself, it's governed itself to, you know, to. To the good and the bad and indifferent. But you're gonna let the Knicks win tonight. You're gonna have 15,000 gooning out over there on 7th Avenue because. And people gonna be what, 12, 13 years old. They don't know nothing unless it's taught to them. So yeah, 1999, Allen Houston and all that. What does that mean to a 14 year old?

[DJ Envy]

Nothing.

[Michael Kasin]

Yeah, but you know what? If they really want to ball out or, or be considered knowledgeable about ball, either they're going to learn or they're going to be fighting. That's real, you know, so, so hip hop is, you know, like it's got to come from a responsible administrative body. Hasn't been there, y' all Name five managements in hip hop right now. And I didn't come here to bash hip hop because.

[DJ Envy]

No, no, we just love having this conversation.

[Michael Kasin]

Every generation, of course has its, has its thing. You know, even Curse Christmas rapper said, you know, don't you give me all that job about things I wrote you things you wrote before I was alive.

[Curtis Blow]

Because this ain't 1823 or even 1970.

[Michael Kasin]

So every generation has its favorites and has its way. But if you go and say I'm doing rap music and hip hop and especially you doing it in New York and what's the thing in New York that's teaching you? So the union is also a thing that, that is more than just a union because when I came up with the. The radio Armageddon, which is basically like the mc DJ aspect of Public Enemy, works with that. And it, it's a. A way of introducing people like from Daddy O to Miranda Rights. So it's, it's a quirky project. It's like, like the weirdness in my head. I don't make records or sell records. I make records that almost like we're not too far from Momo. Right?

[Curtis Blow]

Right.

[Michael Kasin]

It's got to be an art and a craft somewhere before everything. Look, Bob Dylan. How long has Bob Dylan been. And. And Kurt recorded with Bob Dylan? So we got to be no knowledgeable about this fact. Bob Dylan has been with Columbia Records. I'm sick. I'm gonna be 65, God willing. Bob Dylan has been there for 63 years. Wow. And you know when Bob Dylan releases a record, do you think he's paying bills in there? No, he's like, oh, Bob just turned into masters. So we just gotta. So I think one of the accountabilities and responsibilities in rap music and hip hop on a recording in is how do you curate and caretake the masters of. Of the things that help build it as far as from the rap end, right? There's only three majors. There's Sony, that used to be down the street in Blackrock, where I signed to, where it was, cbs. There's Universal, right, Which all is Def Jam and Mercury and all those masters. And there's what? There's one of Time Warner, Warden Brothers, I should say three. What can they do? Curate, caretake. Because if you don't, then what? Then it's there for the undertaker. And our culture, our music, our people have been undertaken. So some of the things I address in. In when I do music, the. The ism that has grown larger than ever and. And when everybody's a screen ager is ageism. Ageism is deep. Like, everybody ain't as young as they think they are. I mean, y' all. Y' all not as young as you. I know. I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. So. So the whole key in life is to maybe give thanks, but also brag about the currency of the years that you get in revolutions around the sun.

[DJ Envy]

Absolutely.

[Michael Kasin]

Marketing works the other way around. Flip the naive kid, sell him anything. Cause they don't know enough, try to sell it to him again. That has diminishing returns on a society. It has the diminishing returns in the world. Cause we even see it reflected in government.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That's how you was able to get the executive producer of Celebrity Apprentice elected.

[Michael Kasin]

Yeah, exactly.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I wanna say I love the song New Generation. And you say on that song, I've been your age. You haven't been mine yet. But I wonder, even though we've been these kids age, we didn't grow up in their generation, didn't have access to the things that they have now. So how much can we truly relate? Even though we have been their age, we just haven't been their age in this timeframe.

[Michael Kasin]

Gotta work on it. I mean, I don't know what it's like to pull an egg out chicken's ass either. You know what I'm saying? I mean, to me, milk means Go to the store and get a carton. So that generation before me looked at me like, yo, you don't know what that is. So we have to do our. We got to do our best on logic and practical sense. I mean, common sense is rationale, deductive reasoning. And. And I forgot the other one right now because I have age bra brain lapse. But we have to work on these things at all times. And we can't probably rely on systems and school system. Before we had an area of culture that snuck it in covert hip hop was. It was a covert operation, remember? Because at the time, they. They totally gave up on school systems. You know, they talk about, oh man, Columbine. But we had a 10 to 15 year period once guns and drugs came in our community, where high school shootings in major urban cities, especially in the United States, they, you know, they became like a little bit of an epidemic before it became a national epidemic. Across the board, it's very easy to say, oh yes, the culture, you know, no, but there's. There's some lapses that, you know, planted the seed. So anyway, to bring it full circle, the Hip Hop alliance evolved with Kurt. Reached out some years ago. Yeah, but you could speak for himself.

[Curtis Blow]

Well, you know, the Hip Hop alliance is just that.

[Michael Kasin]

The.

[Curtis Blow]

The alliance is an organization that is a labor force organization. There needs to be a system to monitor to actually communicate and educate to the youth, to our community. You know, we're out on a mission fighting for fair wages and fair royalties and strong health and retirement benefits for all of our people. And, you know, we specialize in IPS and publishing and trademarks. And you can go to hiphopalliance.org and check us out. It's free to join, support us. We are out there fighting for you to make sure this journey that you are on in your career is successful.

[DJ Envy]

I want to ask with Def Jam, of course. This project is under Def Jam. Will you always sign the Def Jam or was it a re sign? Have you been with Defto that long?

[Michael Kasin]

Break that down first. I was the first rapper. They had a bit. They didn't have a bid more. No such thing. I turned Rick Rubin down for two years.

[DJ Envy]

Why?

[Michael Kasin]

I didn't want to do records. My thing was radio. We. We felt my guys one of the first. And Kirk will tell you, I mean, we broke so many records in Long island. Wbau. We did records, right? We did hip hop, right. We were scientists. We were ESPN of hip hop and rap music. We just ain't from the city. So we had the outside in. We promoted gigs, we concerts, we did it all. So we used to compensate for the lack of rap records by making incredible tapes and promo tapes. And Rick was starting Def Jam with, you know, Curtis Bro's friend Russell, and. Two years.

[Curtis Blow]

Not your friend.

[Michael Kasin]

He's my friend. Oh yeah, Russell's my friend. I mean, but. But he started out with. With Kurt, matter of fact, more trivia. Kurt and Russell used to throw gigs in the 70s under. And then in Kurt's Russell's first artist.

[Curtis Blow]

Yes, yes. We had a. A club in Hollis, Queens.

[DJ Envy]

Hollis, Queens.

[Curtis Blow]

Called the Night Fever disco back in 1977. 78. And I was a DJ playing every weekend. And I used to stay at Russell's house over in Hollis, 2 Fifth street and when I was there, I met his younger brother and he used to beat him up all the time. I used to protect. Why my big brother used to beat me up all the time. So I was like, yo, leave him alone. He's a good kid. You know, I took him under my wing and made him the son of Curtis Blow. And that was D.J. run, of course, taught him how to D.J. and he became incredible on the mic. He was my DJ when I released Christmas rap in 1979. And.

[Michael Kasin]

And nasty too.

[Curtis Blow]

Yeah, we had 8 million stories about that whole situation. Run was incredible. I love the family. Danny, Joey, Russell, his dad, rest in peace. His mom, rest in peace. And that was people disco. I mean, I remember we bought Flash out to the Night Fever disco. The first time Flash ever played in Queens. And that was incredible. Just to be that liaison to the Bronx and represent early, early hip hop in Queens with that whole crew, the Hollis Crew. I love you guys.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I want to ask you, Mr. Blow, was there ever a time in the 80s where you knew hip hop was about to explode, but you didn't feel ready for what came next?

[Curtis Blow]

Oh, yeah, I was definitely a visionary. I hate to talk and brag about that, but I'll do was incredible. And just the feeling. I remember Chuck D saying, that whole energy, that spirit before records, between 1975 and 1979, was the most incredible spirit. I mean, it had spread throughout the whole five boroughs, from Harlem to the Bronx to Queens to Brooklyn. And it was just an. An energy that everyone knew that this is something special, very special. And we capitalized on it, you know?

[Michael Kasin]

Yeah, you couldn't. You couldn't even describe it. It's hard to describe already, that era before records, because before that it was inconceivable to put rap on records. I, you know, It's a three hour thing. Like got dancing, it got all like how you put rap on records. Yeah, you Mike. But I mean how long the record got beat? Three hours, you know like. But then in 79, King Tim III, right, Sugar Hill Gang, which took two records. Not just people say oh it's good times. No, it's, it's two records that made Sugar Hill Gang Love deluxe. And then yeah, Curtis Blow with Christmas Rap which just took it took it into the stratosphere. And, and like I said back to your new Jen's thing. It's like youth is an excuse that I don't let young people do because it's easy to. You gotta, you, you can't. I mean I'm triple og. There's no way I'm going to convince a person, a teenager. It's like that communication got to come from the next step up that they want to get to. So all I do is just I, I weigh them against themselves. Somebody think oh I'm too young for that. They'd be 16. I'm like, okay, your 12 year old brother is going to actually get all your props and everything that. Well, I earned that. So everybody in their life wants to use tenure. You know, the drug game changed all that. Flipped that up because they say oh, overnight, boom, boom. And we, we saw what happened to that. And when that was introduced, a lot of things came during the era of R and B. That's Reagan and Bush. And when that came in, we're still recovering off of those. That scar tissues. But hip hop is a beautiful thing, man. It's got layers and layers and like I said, we started from a radio environment. I mean I've, I've been running rap station for 16 years. I built two apps. One is the Bring the Noise app, which is, it works like TikTok 35 and over. Apps are difficult to make, especially when you have E Commerce. I've only built two and I know and I'm not the guy that just sits in the other room. I'm kind of like checking in with my developer and all. And we did the rap station app which has 12 radio stations all dedicated to things around the world of rap. I've broken, we've broken at least 500,000 songs over 16 years.

[DJ Envy]

Wow.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

So did you, did you approach Radio Armageddon like a broadcaster, a prophet or a rebel?

[Michael Kasin]

Sound like three man, all three. Charlemagne dipped in acid with Wu Tang axes in the back and hammer shoes and all that, you know, it's like in my head, I mean My first records, Public Enemy number one, which is a tone which is blow your head by. By, you know, the JB's, right. You know, a very familiar break beat, but nobody could figure it out. I'm from skater culture and not the skater culture today. Roller skating culture. Roller rinks dominated, so we moved to music. And we didn't have to move to music. Music moved us. I mean, seriously, it make you want to move. I mean, Roosevelt Roller Rink, man, I'm. I'm the dude that's skating back. I mean, I did a concert in Queen in Cleveland one year. Just me going up in the spot of roller rink. And I skated backwards doing all my songs while they were skating towards me. I was a. That. That little card in the wallet that says Bad mf. One of those.

[DJ Envy]

Are you from the hot skates? The. The Roosevelt rig. What else was out there back then?

[Michael Kasin]

Babylon. Further Babylon. You had in Brooklyn. You had. Damn, I just have that.

[DJ Envy]

There was the rink. There was. What's the one in Brooklyn?

[Michael Kasin]

Oh, my Empire.

[DJ Envy]

Empire. You see the shot up all the time Empire.

[Michael Kasin]

And then in other city. I believe. And this depends on the music too, you know, I believe that skating rinks can be a possibility for enjoyment of future music and future cardio. Because one thing being the screen agent. You said in Terry, you said this screen all damn day long and you'll. And trust me, I mean a song that's on the album. I want to attack ageism in the sedentary life and all that is black don't dead. Because you hear the talk we take for granted. You so South Carolina. So you know, a lot of talk of, you know. Yeah, yeah. Black don't crack. Yeah. But it could die, right? Yeah, yeah. For real. And one of the five fingers of death. Diabetes, cancer, hypertension with stress and stroke, you know, heart disease. It's like, boom. So with all this, we do a great job of the exterior and covering up, but it's a grind. Especially when you have the things out here and you've got plenty of people on these shows that you bring up here that will tell people what's out there and what to avoid and all that.

[DJ Envy]

Yeah, well, we try to make sure people know about it. Cause the worst thing that I always hear is don't you wish you could.

[Michael Kasin]

Talk 24 hours a day to them?

[Curtis Blow]

Yes.

[DJ Envy]

When DJs that come up here that I don't go to the doctor or rappers, you hear, I don't go to the doctor. And you see them get sick and you was like, Damn. That could have been prevented. So we try to talk about those things, about eating healthy and all that. Things that I didn't. I mean, I grew up in Queens. White Castle was two blocks away. That's what I ate. Most of the junk, heard the time, you know what I mean? So we definitely try to preach to those people.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I'm glad you brought that record up, because I listen to records like Black Don't Dead, and it makes me wonder, did making Radio Armageddon feel like a spiritual purge or a final Warning?

[Michael Kasin]

No, none of that. I say that for Public Enemy record. This is taking a radio and throwing it down a flight of stairs and seeing it still work. It's not meant for people to like, Remember, I made Public Enemy Records, man. Not for nobody to like. I didn't. I told Rick Rubin. No, he's the greatest producer. Rick Ruben's the greatest. One of the greatest producers of all time.

[DJ Envy]

Yes.

[Michael Kasin]

Whoever told him, no, you. I was wanted. There's certain qualities back in the day that Kurt also knows, too. If you didn't have a voice that rocked the mic, I mean, sounded good, you wasn't getting the mic. I don't care how many verses you got, bars you got. If you sounded like you was 15 years old, you had to take up something else. You had to dance, maybe DJs and stuff like that. You had to command the crowd like Hollywood Curtis Blow, you know, Starsky. They command Melly Mel. When they grabbed the mic, people just sat down. Because I don't. I can't sound like that. Studios balance that stuff out and this and all that. But, yeah, so that. That's, you know. And your question was, again, a spiritual.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Purge or a final one, the people.

[Michael Kasin]

Yeah, yeah. My point was, it's like I never, ever, ever made a song for somebody else to like. That's like asking yourself, asking somebody else, how do I look after you? You went to the mirror brush yourself and asking somebody else, how do you look? But being screen ages, people listen with their eyes today a little bit too much with their eyes. You could tell them they might listen, but did they hear it? So there's a lot of COVID now happening when you could be told the truth, but if you don't see it, you know, now it's. It's the flip verse with that. It's like, believe none of what you see and half of what you hear, man, because people ain't listening. So believe at least half of what you hear and dissect that. But as far as seeing, especially with AI And I've been dancing and boxing with AI for like the last five years. I'm trying to tell you it don't go backwards. It ain't gonna get dumber. And yes, there is an issue there in real life and regular life and in culture and music and art and all that. You're not gonna stop it. But you can dance with it and you can manipulate it, you can flip it, but you better know how to dance and you better know what it is, because I think you could dance.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

With it if you already have some knowledge itself, if you already have some.

[Michael Kasin]

Information of your own, or better yet, you have an understanding of, of things before you, right? And you have to practice. Like I said, I never pulled the egg out of chicken, but at least I know and I seen it, I did it. You know what I'm saying? So this is something with AI, technology, gadgets, computers, you know, unfortunately, that, that bumps up into areas like artillery and, you know, all kinds of doom machines and, and weird weirdos that just think all of a sudden, you know, they, they got the mic in the camera for me. Everybody got the mic in the camera. Everybody got the mic in the camera at the same damn time. So triple OGs and OG, sometimes with some wisdom, sometimes choose to be silent because everybody on the mic, sit my ass down and listen. Because the key is listening if you're going to even be able to protect your, your surroundings. So it's not something where, you know, we were innately born with these qualities to be leaders and, and wise people, though this came from the shoulders of giants. We stood on this man, made a sacrifice that I had to take advantage of. But then it's all about, okay, you got to break it back. And when you break it back, then that makes that side stronger. And you and the isms, the ageism that's taken place was intentionally poured over black life in the modern world. And, and I, I would think a lot of it started during, you know, like I said, R and B, Reagan and Bush. Because I am a product of the 60s and the 70s and in the 70s, with all the BS that was going on in the United States at that time. Look, in 1974, you had an impeached president. This, this country was, was rocky as hell. Black folks was figuring it out. We knew, like, okay, this is what we have. We're going to make this work. We might have not been, you know, we, we might have been broke, but we wasn't broken. That was the key. Black folks, right? Black folks were together no matter what they threw at us. The only thing they could do, throw at us in the 80s was a plethora of guns, drugs, and then also a lot of things they poured in there that caused division between the young and old. You go to other societies and that even that start to crack down because you go to Amazon, and they screen ages, too, in the Amazon. So. But. But elders are revered, and it also. Elders, or they don't get that. That term of, oh, yo, they just bitter because they ain't getting it. Number one, the old school, listen, they didn't measure themselves with money. That's where the term came from. It's like, I don't want your money. You know what I'm saying? I mean, I'm saying in the best New York vernacular, right? Where you go, yo, man, take. I don't want your money. Because their levels, their statuses was different. Their statuses was like here. It was like, deep within this is the core that no matter what machinery they came up with, they couldn't penetrate the core here. You know, you go to places like Philly, it's like, damn, man. I wonder when they're gonna get some urban renewal. But Philly was called a city of brotherly love. So within all the drama, people like, yo, we like here of the Bronx. Bronx was left to ashes. Left, Left for dead. What comes up out of that?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Hip hop.

[Curtis Blow]

Hip hop, hip hop. Yeah, The Bronx is burning. Yep.

[Michael Kasin]

So, I mean, the 80s came with a whole bunch of, you know, so now it's about like, what does hip hop got in his toolbox? How many tools can you put in the Hip hop toolbox to be able to. To wedge out some future path? You know, it ain't about going back. It's all about going forward. Who the hell want to go back?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Is hip hop still the best weapon for revolution?

[Michael Kasin]

No. Everybody got a gadget. From your grandmother to the child being born. Something better come through that. We don't know what that is. Remember I said hip hop was covert? Was that. That. That. That was done before. Fight the Power, bro. Fight the Power became. Listen. Fight the Power became what it was because of Spike Lee, okay? So, I mean, who does that play? You know, plays a song in a movie 500 times and nobody did that. Yeah, Spike made that record happen.

[DJ Envy]

What was your relationship with Spike for him to do that or. He just wanted to.

[Michael Kasin]

He felt at that time in the 80s, man. And like I said, this comes from the seed of Curtis Blow. It was a renaissance period of filmmakers, artists. You know, hip hop, that Were all being independently creative and using those tools out of the ashes that. That, you know, was bestowed upon us. Look at the key. People talk about fight the Power, like, because it's. Because it's the headline buzzword, you know? You know, decades later. Oh, yeah, yeah, cool. You know, we buy that. They. They fail to realize or they wasn't taught. I had to always tell people there was a first fight to power by the Isley Brothers in 1975 that me and Kurt was influenced by. Yeah, Fighting power by the Isley Brothers.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Oh, I didn't know that.

[Michael Kasin]

Yeah, 1975. Remember I told you the country is rocky, you know, and. And Isley's came up with tired. All that BS going down. First record I ever heard on pop radio with a black radio with a curse word in it. Wow. Really? Yeah, I thought, Whoa, be on WWRL, Super 16. And then I'm gonna play some fight the power people like in the Hotel Bird. This city right here. Here's another thing about OG's. This city right here. When you have a. When you have like a tenured lens of any place you go to, whether it's where you're from or whatever, Queens, you still see the old buildings that was there. I still see the old buildings, although they've been replaced by new buildings. This. That's third eye vision, man. You're able to see the past, present, and the. And the future that they're building. New heads come along in their generation, probably only could see what they see. That's why it's, you know, deeper than your ear can hear or your eye can see. I go around, walk down this street. I'm saying, oh, that place used to be there. Boom, boom, boom. The whole key is that, is this. Keep your. Your. Your recognition or what they call your. Your cognitive.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Cognitive dissonance.

[Michael Kasin]

Right. Thank you, sir. Yeah, keep that because that will help you. Kurt. Kurt says, you know, like, you know, like I said, I'm not in the business of wellness. You have people like, you know, Griff, who taught wellness for years. You know, look at Flav. Flavor's gone through his. His ninth life, you know what I'm saying? Like, I went down to Penn Station the other day and ran into the. What's the. The canes. I didn't know what the cane's chicken was.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Or Ray the King, right, In Penn State.

[Michael Kasin]

He's all over the place. But it's like, so. So the whole key is about getting to the 100 yard line, not dying at the 50 yard line in football you know, getting to the other side of the scrimmage. And that's what Kurt was talking about. And so hip hop could be useful and beneficial in adding some of these things. It's not going to be a total revolution running through it because it's rent, but it's been ran through. Anytime they mention hip hop, it's always from the catastrophic end. To make its news today, they called. What do you call it? Brown. They called him a rapper, you know, because he got in trouble in the uk.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Chris Brown.

[Michael Kasin]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Rapper. And they. They used to call Bobby Brown a rapper. Yeah, it's very easy to. But okay, if you. If you know what it is, then try to figure out how you can run your play. I'm a sports head, so my thing is like this. Like, even. Like, if we roll out as a group, I say, well, this is the starting lineup. You know, the rest of the crew got to figure other things out to do. That's how the sports world. Next man up. Boom, boom, boom. It's hard sometimes with people in the music business because that sports thing will teach your ass. I mean, oh, yeah, by the way, you're not gonna make this team. You cut. When you gonna come back and shoot the coaches, dog? Work on your thing, man.

[DJ Envy]

Come back.

[Michael Kasin]

Same thing in hip hop. Work on your thing. And then I look at. Here's another thing. It's not talking about anybody but the. The rap battles and beefs is like, you don't want to get into an area where you. You rhyming in circles, man. Rhyming in circles means like the dog chasing his tail. It's rhymes that go nowhere. You know, it's cool. It's cool to get into, like, lyrical acrobatics and all that, but at the end, you got to process something into something. And if the best processes is somebody just, like, seriously disrespecting you, how does that not leave a stain? Over decades, when the last time you said I came from a hip hop song and this joint was refreshing? I mean, P Rock CL Smooth. You throw a P Rock CL Smooth record on, be like, yo, man, this is like nutrition Troy Rakim. Rakim has never done a failing song ever. I've never heard Rakim do a song, let's say. But where's the support in it? KRS1 is never, ever, ever, ever, ever lost. But, you know, it's very easy to excuse it because this is what's happening now and all that. Cool. But I feel like that with a.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Lot of people, though, like, Like, I feel like that with Kendrick. I feel like that with like Rhapsody. Like just this week I was watching Joey Badass and Absol and Big Sean do A Cipher and I thought that was. I got. Until you used the right word. I was like, that was refreshing.

[DJ Envy]

That was dope.

[Michael Kasin]

People like LA Russell, promoters look back in the day and Curtis tell you. Promoters will tell you exactly how it rolls. They'll give you a top. Let's say you got six rappers, six groups. What do the promoters say? Kurt? The one that's closing it out is the one. The one that closes out the building. Not just cause people came to see. Because look, there's a difference between spectacle and spectacular. I tell people this all the time. There's big difference, you know. And the rock guys, remember I was in rock group four years. There's a night and day between us, right? I don't care how much money a rapper make. It ain't about the money. It's about how much you can really put impact on that building and then on a fan's head.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That's why I like seeing Kendrick the other night at MetLife, like, literally, I'm sitting there watching like, yo. And because he's just an emcee, you gotta.

[Michael Kasin]

That's just rash. You gotta smash a crowd. You got to smash a crowd if you can be an emcee. And at the end of the day, f all the slang, heck, all you know, all the. All the. All the goon rhythm. You're like this bravo like Pavarotti. Yo, man. And that's what the rock. That's what the rock boys strive for. Me, I'm rap music and hip hop. I learned from this, man. I'm trying to beat their ass. The stage is the places where you really, you know, you gotta, you know, take somebody's crowd and stuff. Like the battles on wax and all that stuff. It's cute, man. But you could go in the studio, you can record it in front of a person, a human being. Man on mano. Let's go. And it could be like, you could be doing the ugliest shit over there, excuse my language. Or somebody else doing something totally different. How are you going to win that? Human being? And that's what our genre started out as. It didn't start out with a lot of things in the toolbox, but at the same time, they had to, what, Leave the audience in awe. That's how you spell audience. Awed. And somehow that was also lost because what's the proving ground in boxing? The proving ground Was what person in the ring? Person in the ring, right. Excuses out the door. Hip hop's a little different. Promoter's gonna say, the one that's gonna close out the building is the one. Is the one. The one that's gonna open up is gonna. You know, hopefully you could get people coming through there and stay in their seats. Yeah, you got somebody in the middle that can't hold it. They off the tour, they out of there. Forget how many. Forget how many records they sold. If they can't be better than they record outta there. But audiences and this. It's changed over the years because they. They. They're happy. I mean, why? I used to take my oldest kids to. To, like, Coliseum and places like that. And they had eight acts on the bill. And I asked when they all come back in the car, I ain't going in there with them. They're like, did you like it? No, no, no. You're saying I could. But, you know, like, we're not mixing like that, right? This is another thing.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

So if you would like a Kendrick show. He's an emcee.

[Michael Kasin]

He's an emcee.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And to see him perform in front of. In that arena, in that football stadium, just rapping, no gimmicks, no nothing.

[Michael Kasin]

This is the first man that came out as one man. And I thought being one man could never beat a group. And he came out as one man because back in the day, it was like, what? Cruz? Cruz? Yeah.

[Curtis Blow]

Oh, yeah.

[Michael Kasin]

And then this man begat the next M solo mc, who was a superstar as LL Cool J, Right? Raps first superstar, raps first superstar.

[DJ Envy]

Absolutely.

[Michael Kasin]

You make Prince and Michael Jackson turn their head. Curtis made all the funk bands and all people recognize, yo, this thing is real. I mean, look, why am I talking for the man? He played with Bob Marley, he played with the class and all that. He dug tomatoes from rock groups.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I wanted to ask Mr. Blow. Cause, you know, you spoke about the Ronald Isley Fight the Power. And my daddy used to always tell me James Brown was the first rapper, right? So I think about a song like say It Loud, I'm Black and I'm Proud. That was revolutionary for his time. Stuff like that influenced you 1968.

[Curtis Blow]

Oh, yes, yes, yes. And that's straight out of the civil rights movement, you know, that inspired all of us. And in many ways, multiple number of ways, not only the lyrics, right, but the beat. That beat was what we call boom bap today. So it changed the whole sound. It was a revolution to the Motown sound.

[Michael Kasin]

Would.

[Curtis Blow]

The snare every 1, 2, 3 and 4, right? But now we have that boom, bat, boom. And when James Brown did it, we lost our minds. Everybody started break dancing, trying to be James Brown on the dance floor with the splits and the twists and the turns and the flips and everything. And that's where break dancing got inspired. But the whole thing was, it was the civil rights movement. So after 1968 into the 70s, we have the flower child and the peace and love movement. And forget about your troubles, forget about your cares we're gonna dance the night away. And dancing became a national craze, right? So then here comes a dj, Curtis Blow. All right, I'm hearing all this stuff and. And so I got an opportunity to make a couple of records. Christmas rap in 1979, right. So when I did that song, I was signed to a major label over in Chicago. So I went to Chicago. Chicago, the first flight out of Harlem, I went to Chicago and I was there. I was hanging out with the record company and I did a show, a couple of shows, and Jesse Jackson came to one of my shows and he sat me down backstage, he said, ben, I want to talk to you. I want you to. When I'm going to say to you, I want you to go back and tell the rest of the. Your whole crew and everybody. Now this thing called rap, you guys are the new icons of our people, the new heroes of the civil rights movement.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Wow.

[Curtis Blow]

And you need to keep it clean if you ever want to see it be successful on the pop market and be accepted by everyone. So I was like, oh, wow, okay, I hear you, I hear you. And it was Jesse Jackson. So I'm like, oh, whoa. I went back to the Sugar Hill Gang, Grandmaster flashing, the Furious 5. And our first interview, we did national interview on radio Scope. And before the interview, I said, man, I just talked to Jesse Jackson and he told me, man, we are the new heroes of the, of the black community and we need to keep it clean if we want to ever want to see it go far and be successful. So right then we had the code of exit ethics that we established. Like, we would not curse, we would not dis each other, and we would keep it clean. Right? And that was my sacrifice. That was a sacrifice I made. I made 240 rap songs and never used profanity. Wow. And that was my sacrifice to open the door so everyone else could come in and do what they do, AKA.

[DJ Envy]

Public image, because of that conversation with Jesse Jackson.

[Michael Kasin]

And you gotta take the mentorship humbly too, because I'm here doing a concert. I'm holding the mic. Kurt says, you hold the mic. So you got it, right? Right? So you got it like when, When. Like when the master. Teacher, teacher. You're always a student, and the teacher's always learning. So I, you know, and I told Kurt, I said, you know, one time I was behind Ice Cube leaving, and Ice Cube backed up into me and my mic chipped my tooth. So that's why I hold it like that. And Kurt said, I'll give you a pass.

[Curtis Blow]

I wanted to ask about real quick.

[DJ Envy]

To what he said, though, fast. You talking about the rap battles and how that made hip hop how it was.

[Michael Kasin]

Right?

[DJ Envy]

You talk about. We could talk about Kumo D&LL and we could go further back.

[Michael Kasin]

Cause they dealt with vocabulary and vernacular.

[DJ Envy]

What do you think about the rap battles of today and how it affects hip hop? Like the Kendrick and Drake and like those big battles that we've seen. Is it helpful? Is it worse? Does it hurt? Does it help?

[Michael Kasin]

The topics ain't vast. My thing is, like, if you want to get at somebody, vast your topics and also vast your vocabulary. But then again, I'm from New York and somebody. Like, a lot of times, like, for example, I didn't battle. I wasn't a battle person. But. But because I had a voice, so what somebody got to use like three verses for. All I got to do is say four sentences. They were hear me. So I didn't have to, like. It's more like. Like in Shaq and basketball, I ain't got to shoot a threat, you know, So I got to do dunk you. But that's rap talk. You know what I'm saying? I just think that Kendrick was very vast, though. But. But you got. But look, you got guys out there like that got 20 albums that under the radar that should never be under the radar, especially from New York, like sky Zoo. Got 27 albums.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Actually, my cousin.

[DJ Envy]

That's his cousin.

[Michael Kasin]

Oh, really?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Real cousin?

[Michael Kasin]

Yeah. Wow. But see, there you. There you go. It's like, okay, so he's out of the. He's out of the discussion because he doesn't have a rep. Bring him. Bring him to radio stations and stuff.

[DJ Envy]

Like that before a long time ago, right?

[Michael Kasin]

Yeah. Like, he got 27 albums, though. You're right. So can he actually hang with the person that's the anointed one? Probably. Come on, man. We talking about city has this. City's had a million rappers, MCs since 1974. Right?

[Curtis Blow]

Right.

[Michael Kasin]

You look every time you're on the radio. I bet you there's a 70 year old dude out there. Like people are 55 years old. Like that kid's garbage. And then, you know, and then he probably. I rate. I mean people, moms got verses now, they got bars, as they say, you know what I'm saying? So it's a beautiful art form. And listen is not to itself. It's a culmination of all the art because it started from records. So whether it's rock, it's soul, R B, not the regular Bush one, you know, reggae, well, it's, it started from records. So that's where that mixology comes in. That's why I tried, you know, I do a radio Armageddon. You can't listen to that thing for, for like 10 seconds in a row and, and think you got a steady thing happening. Nah, it's meant to be fragmented and fragment your brain. It's, it's, it's a fun piece of art for me and, and I will continue to make more Radio Armageddon like records as not a soul. It's not a solo album, it's a solo project. But once again, when you put it out there in the world, you got to put Chuck D's name on it to make it do whatever a stream or get eyeballs there. I don't care nothing about that. You know, saying in case of emergency, you know, tunes, he says, chuck, I, you know, break glass, you know what I'm saying? And because like I said, the comparison is other art forms. Bob Dylan, Bob Dylan don't really, you know, I mean, whether you show up to Bob Dylan's thing or buy his music, it don't matter. Bob Dylan is Bob Dylan. And the day that Bob Dylan transitions on, it's going to stop the world for two days. And music and culture, we could do the same in hip hop and rap music. Look at you guys. How long you guys been doing Radio 16?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I've been doing, I've been doing it 27 years. But we've been doing Breakfast Club almost 15 years.

[DJ Envy]

Yeah, I've been doing it 27 Years.

[Michael Kasin]

Something like that is revered. Where is it revered other than the occupation? Where is it embedded into the foundation of New York radio? Sixth Avenue right there. If you might have not known the name, but we do. They named it, you know, 6th Avenue. That part over close to here. Cousin Brucey way. Did you know that?

[Curtis Blow]

Right, right, right, right.

[Michael Kasin]

Cousin Bruce. Bruce Morrow is one of the legends in New York radio. Got so many records played in his city Black, white and whatever, you know, on WABC 77 radio and AM dial in New York and then went to WCBS. Super legends that are revered in the Northeast forever. You guys are the same. So the whole thing is. And also, I don't get into the flower talk. I mean, you could plant flowers and have plastic flowers. Like, what it is is certain reverence for necessary foundations that move our craft forward. These are the things we need. Administrators, managements. You could build a lamb. You could build a Lamborghini or have one, right? What good. What good is a Lamborghini on a mud road or a swamp? People are building great vehicles in the culture and rap music and hip hop. The roads are swamp. What Kurt has done with Hip Hop alliance, we could have some solid ground. Okay, you're an artist. You don't get a lot of fanfare. Whatever. You've done five or ten albums, you should be part of a union. A union comes up and the thing about the union, it's not like the thing like we just started a union. No, it's actually tied in legitimate. Amy Robach and TJ Holmes here, Diddy's former protege, television personality, platinum selling artist Danity King alum Aubrey o' Day joins us to provide a unique perspective on the trial that has captivated the attention of the nation. Aubrey o' Day is sitting next to us. Here you are. As we sit here right up the street from where the trial is taking place, some people saw that you were going to be in New York and they immediately started jumping to conclusions. So can you clear that up? First of all, are you here to testify in the Diddy trial? Aubrey will offer her opinions and expertise based on her firsthand knowledge from her days on making the band. As she emerged as the breakout star, the truth of the situation would be opposite of the glitz and glamour. It wasn't all bad, but I don't.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Know that any of the good was real. I went through things there.

[Michael Kasin]

Listen to Amy and TJ presents Aubrey O' Day covering the Diddy trial on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Hey, it's Jay Shetty and I'm thrilled to announce my first ever On Purpose.

[Michael Kasin]

Live tour presented by Chase Sapphire Reserve. That's right. I'm coming live to a city near you. Come and see me. Join me and surprise guests for meaningful.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And insightful conversations to spark learning, experience.

[Michael Kasin]

Growth, and build real connections.

[Curtis Blow]

I'll also guide you through live meditations.

[Michael Kasin]

Share groundbreaking insights, and create powerful moments of inspiration designed to deepen connections, spark growth and foster learning.

[Curtis Blow]

Chase Sapphire Reserve is the gateway to.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

The most captivating travel destinations and offers exclusive rewards and experiences so you can explore the world your way. Discover more with Chase Sapphire Reserve.

[Michael Kasin]

I'm Andrea Gunning, host of the podcast Betrayal. Police Lieutenant Joel Kern used his badge to fool everyone, most of all his wife, Caroline. He texted, I've ruined our lives. You're going to want to divorce me. Caroline's husband was living another life behind the scenes. He betrayed his oath to his family and to his community.

[DJ Envy]

She said, you left bruises, pulled her.

[Michael Kasin]

Hair, that type of thing. No? How far would Joel go to cover up what he'd done?

[Curtis Blow]

You're unable to keep track of all your lies.

[Michael Kasin]

Quite frankly, I question how many other women may bring forward allegations in the future. This season of Betrayal investigates one officer's decades of deception. Lies that left those closest to him questioning everything they thought they knew. Listen to Betrayal Starting on May 22nd on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[DJ Envy]

The American west with Dan Flores is the latest show from the Meat Eater Podcast Network. Hosted by me, writer and historian Dan Flores and brought to you by Velvet Buck, this podcast looks at a West available nowhere else. Each episode I'll be diving into some of the lesser known histories of the West. I'll then be joined in conversation by guests such as Western historian Dr. Randall Williams and best selling author and Meat eater founder Stephen Rinella.

[Curtis Blow]

I'll correct my kids now and then where they'll say when cave people were here.

[Michael Kasin]

And I'll say, it seems like the.

[DJ Envy]

Ice Age people that were here didn't.

[Michael Kasin]

Have a real affinity for caves.

[DJ Envy]

So join me starting Tuesday, May 6th where we'll delve into stories of the west and come to understand how it helps inform the ways in which we experience the region today. Listen to the American west with Dan Flores on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts.

[Michael Kasin]

Or wherever you get your podcasts. Lee to systems that work at in the Screen Actors Guild in Hollywood. You don't ever hear a person from Hollywood talking about, oh yeah, there ain't no union. No, they films people. They might be a bit part. They don't. They don't play around. They don't play around in Hollywood. That's the thing that got me. Also too, before I actually have Kurt explain Hip Hop alliance because I know we're running out of time.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

No, we not keep talking. We go.

[Michael Kasin]

And in Hollywood, you, you hear about a lot of things. How rap rules the world and all that. However, when somebody goes to another area, they might wild out and rap. They're not wilding out in the other areas. That's true. Oh, they feel. Oh, yeah. Be on set. 6:00 clock in the morning, your ass ain't on the set. Get them out of here. You know why? Yeah. Because people think white ice is cold.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

They don't act up in front of them white people.

[Michael Kasin]

That's true. But I'm saying in all other realms, they treat it seriously if it's white or not. I mean, this is. There's organizations out there that are black. You know, they don't play that. You know what I'm saying? But, you know, okay, I won't be part of that. But people say I want to be in the movies and all that. I want to be in this thing over here. I want to be in the NBA and all that. You could be the best player, but if you. You ain't right in the NBA, you ain't even making G League. Yeah. Go overseas. Go to China. And that ain't gonna be easy in a minute either. So I think in every area, it's not about you. It's what you can continue to have the road underneath you. Solid. Tell them about the sag, aftra and how it's hard before we do that. Yes, sir.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Cause you said something a little while ago that I can't not let.

[Michael Kasin]

There's something.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

A lot of things. But you said Jesse Jackson told you and that you and the other brothers and sisters in hip hop were the.

[Michael Kasin]

Next another South Carolina.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yes, that's right.

[Michael Kasin]

Greenville.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

The new leaders. Right. You took that responsibility serious.

[Curtis Blow]

Yes.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

But Malcolm X said no community has athletes and celebrities as leaders except for black people. And he don't. He didn't like that. So I want to know. I really want to know what both of y' all think about that.

[Curtis Blow]

Oh, my gosh. I just want to shout out his family right now.

[Michael Kasin]

Yes, you're right. Exactly.

[Curtis Blow]

His birthday is coming up Monday on May 21st.

[Michael Kasin]

May 19th.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

19Th. May 19th. May 19th.

[Curtis Blow]

Right. He's going to be 100 years old, everyone. So there's.

[Michael Kasin]

We had the Minister's birthday on May 11, so that's how close their birthdays are.

[Curtis Blow]

I think I got a shout out to Ilana.

[Michael Kasin]

Yes.

[Curtis Blow]

Elasa and. And Atalia, the family. They're doing a big function coming up on the 18th and 19th up in Harlem, where he was killed at the autobond. And they're doing a big function over there celebrating his. His Past and his history in legacy. But, yeah, what did you think when he said.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Because like I said, Malcolm said, no community has athletes and celebrities as leaders. He didn't like that. But Jesse was telling y' all, no, y' all are the new leaders. And you took that responsibility serious.

[Michael Kasin]

So.

[Curtis Blow]

Well, this was a whole thing about the civil rights movement from Martin Luther King and to Mr. Russell and John Lewis. Lewis.

[Michael Kasin]

John Lewis, too, Right?

[Curtis Blow]

Not John Russell.

[Michael Kasin]

You made. You made the King holiday song back in 84 too.

[Curtis Blow]

Right, right, right. And so, you know, that whole mindset was to reach out to the youth. And it's like, we are fishers of men. This is what Martin Luther King told. And John Russell. I mean, John Lewis told Jesse, and he extended that whole mindset of, let me reach out to the youth and tell them, you guys are the new civil rights movement. And this is where hip hop came from. And this is our power. This is our legacy. This is our beginning. The truth of the beginning, it is an extension of the civil rights movement. So, you know, I love Malcolm, actually. I grew up right next door in Harlem. 260 Convent Avenue. The building with 10 floors. I lived on the ninth floor. And when I was like, 14, 15, guess who moves right next door? Italia Shabazz.

[Michael Kasin]

Wow.

[Curtis Blow]

And I had a big crush on her. She was beautiful, incredible. I used to see her walking down the hill. You know, Amsterdam and then Convent, we lived on. Conway was a little hill. So I used to see her walking down the block with her bags and everything. And I used to run and go get the bags and carry them for her. Or I would see her come to the building. I'll open the door, press for the elevator and ride upstairs.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yo, your wife's sitting right there, my brother.

[Curtis Blow]

She knows the whole story.

[Michael Kasin]

Royalty. A million times royalty, right? Royalty.

[Curtis Blow]

Yeah, you know, she was incredible. So I. I mean, you know, that whole mindset of just being an activist, being the voice of the people, comes from the civil rights movement, comes from Malcolm X, comes from Martin Luther King and Jesse Jackson.

[Michael Kasin]

When you have knowledgeable people, you know, you always could agree to disagree. You don't have to get in a. You know, like you. You don't have to have the goon moment. You gotta look at it Charlemagne like a toolbox. You know, if Malcolm's a flathead, then. Then, you know, Dr. King's a Phillips head. I'm saying both of them are screwdrivers that open up the closest situation and tighten it so the toolbox is what you want to have back in the day before, before screens. Being well read is meaning that, okay, you ain't gonna read everything but one thing. You start to learn how to read people. You'll be able to get stories head to head, face to face, and you do your reading. But then again, you know, knowledge is power, but it ain't because if you can't use it and you can't share it. And that great, that great song that the group Third World did that Heavy D covered, now that we found love. But yeah, we talk love, but what are you gonna do with it? So, so, so back in the day, you know, wordsmiths, people always, you always had like the hip cats. Whether they, they talked in rhymes, whether it was just cool. I mean, back in Roosevelt, Long island, man, home of Dr. J. I grew up down the street from Eddie and Charlie Murphy, man. I mean, we just had whole different thing in the 70s, but you had guys this serious big fro ride a, a, a stingray backwards, right? With a record player in their arm with a rake in their hair. And they, you couldn't buy them. You could, it wasn't about. You couldn't buy their money. They were just cool and they were stuck in their thing. Get their brew, get their weed. Now that, that's all they did. But everybody gravitated to because what they did, they reigned with knowledge, wisdom and understanding. Even in the 80s when the 5 percenters had more muscle, their whole striving was to be civilized, even with all the drama that was bestowed upon them. That's why I don't also make a mockery of prisons, because that's the beginning of the mass pushing in of prisons. So I don't, I don't look at crime or the created criminal as a thing to take lightly. People serve real, real time for, for offenses that were like yo man, manipulated their way. Then you also got people that are going to do the dirty because they do the dirty, but everybody just wasn't. They wasn't dirty, criminal minded like that. But they was forced in their situation to be criminal minded. Whatever it was, I'm not making excuses for it. I just never went that way because it wasn't something to glamify knowing the seed that it came from. So when somebody said gangster, I'm like, they play gangsters. The real gangsters are government. That's real. And they get a chance. Yeah, really, Really. I mean, and governments plural. That's why on the first Public Enemy album it said the government's responsible. Plural. Not, not singular. Every single one of them. I mean, look, right now that the games that they're playing and where people's heads and minds are court cases or you know, maybe somebody goes around, it's. I won't even even get into the beginning of it because it'd be sound bites for years, of course. But you all know what's out there. You know what you see. Yep. And once again, what I say, difference between spectacle and spectacular. You know what spectacle gets you in the building. Spectacular keeps you coming back for more.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That's real.

[Michael Kasin]

That's why Public Enemy, like anytime that me and Flavor would say, we could play anywhere in the world, we could be out on tour six months, we could play stadiums and arenas. But then again, what kind of life is that? We, you know, we, we Sexagenarians, man. The whole key is being where you gotta be and then do. Doing that when you want to do. Not that you have to go around and do that. So this year we're playing and opening with Guns N Roses. But I ain't gonna do that for like three months. I'm gonna do it up to my birthday, bring my ass back home, man. Like, people like, oh, man, you build tour, man. Like, oh, you coming out this way? Nah, I ain't coming that way.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Well, you know, I do agree that, you know, hip hop artists, you definitely are the leaders, especially then. And I started paying attention to Minister Farrakhan because of you, Chuck. Because my dad would always try to get me to watch Minister Farrakhan speeches. You know, you sit in front of the tv but you're not really paying attention. When I heard you say, I'm bringing noise, fire, kinds of profit. And I think you ought to listen.

[Michael Kasin]

To him like, oh, or don't believe the hype, you know, but that was my job at that particular time to say in the midst of R B. I'm telling you, that was a reign of terror. The 12 years, that was a dozen years. And not to say that, I mean, we had the 1996 Communications act where it consolidated and got rid of all the black radio stations. So that meant that you could not as a company or music and records, could not individually or regionally negotiate with a region to get your music across. It single handedly wiped out radio stations and it wiped out black independent record companies. You had the right kind of guy go down in the, in swamp level, under the, under, under the radar to be able to get some organic growth in music. And I. If that's the only thing that's actually getting around, of course, you know, and this is What I mean by the positive, negative thing, plus, minus, let's say, right, Basketball talk. To go up a hill, man takes what? Energy, inertia. You got to break gravity. That's what making a pot. That's what. Kendra Lamar. Okay, I'm gonna try to at least go here. I know I gotta, you know, go up here in a certain way, but, yeah, to get to that mountaintop, you gotta break a lot of gravity. But also to come down easy, you can just freefall. And that's what I thought that a lot of times it's like, yeah, you taking the. You taking the free fall away. I mean, anybody could come up with that tactic to rhyme about that and get that. Ooh. And then it depends on how mature your audience is. If you got a whole bunch of 18 year olds, they're gonna look at it different than a whole bunch of 36 year olds. Seriously. I always used to take a group of young kids, I said, next time, man, tell me the amount of time your parents smile, and that shows you how they ain't playing as many games as you playing. You know what I'm saying? Just count their smiles. And the older they rank up, you less and less of them. We have music and culture, man. Keep it. You know, the music and culture, man used to keep you smiling, just being a fan. And I think that could come in. It's like. And years ago, I got into, you know, into it with Hot 97. Not into it because people don't want to get into it with me because I left it alone. But go to, you know, do a concert, and you got. The guy said, yeah, these are the ends to actually start the revolution. And I'm like, all right, half this place full of white people over here where they play football and they hearing the N word, right? And not to say that we didn't use it. It's just like, that's what they used to call pool room language on the streets, on the corners. But now corporate America is going to use it and not be accountable for what happens afterwards. So I had to be able to say, yo, man, yo, a radio station, man. Y' all. Y' all need to be more accountable in this city with MCs. The million MCs wouldn't condone that, especially coming out of a white company.

[DJ Envy]

So they introduce y' all like that.

[Michael Kasin]

Yo, man, I let them know that's good. Sure enough. But you know what? They're checking it. Oh, yeah. Well, we didn't get any feedback from any kids. Kids ain't gonna Give you no feedback. You gotta come in and set precedent. Oh, we just won't play your records no more. And so you have to say. You have to be able to say, you know, Harry Belafonte told me. He said. Chuck Paul Robeson told me this. He said, every generation has to fend for itself. But you can go in there, borrow and also lend. And when you lend, man, don't try to be hanging with them like you part of them. They could see you coming a mile away. And. And last, lastly on that, it's just like the thing that cracked me up with all the stuff that's going on. You got people in their 40s and 50s, right, that don't think that they old. I said, no matter how young you look or whatever, man, it's like somebody's 18, 20, 21, you hanging with them, they can see you. They see the age coming at you.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That's right.

[Michael Kasin]

So they, you know, I've been your age. You ain't ever been mine. You could always say, that's your currency. That's your currency is the years that you're able to get and be lucky at that. And the trouble, in fact, is that before you used to say, oh, yeah, oh, dude, you got less years ahead than you got behind you. That's true. That's. That's mathematics. But I don't want to see that happen with you at 41 and 39 and 32 and you got all these ailments going on. It's like, that's just something that we all have to look at for this following generation. So I. I really commend you all for being able to. To issue out, like, some governance in that, you know, Because, I mean, you don't have to do it. But at the end of the day, everybody turns around and said, damn, I could have. Damn, I could have did that. We all do that.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And trust me, we are the old guys that they trying to push out, okay? Oh, yeah. Some people have reverence for it. Some people are like, oh, my God, they've been around too long.

[Michael Kasin]

But you know what? You know what alleviates that? Find out their names. Let everybody know their personal name, and leave a horse head in the bed.

[DJ Envy]

Jesus Christ.

[Michael Kasin]

Listen, man, listen. Let me tell you this. Whenever I say something, right? Whenever I say something, Chuck D's name is signed with it. Like, there's a whole bunch of Boston Celtics fans butt hurt. Cause I told him it was karma. And they think I'm talking about Jason Tatum's injury. And I was like, no, I was talking about their style of play, coward ball shooting trades. But they have a. Oh, that's. That's some sucker move, Chuck. They say on, on X or Twitter, whatever the hell, like they blaming me. I said, listen, I own what I said. I meant what I said. But one thing, you know that up there, Chuck D, or it might be an avatar up there. I sign everything I say. Everybody that does everything in this business did not sign their name next to their word. That's right. That's back in the day. Kurt said, listen, number one thing, whether it was somebody on some goonish or, or somebody just on straight, straight up, they say your word gotta be your bond.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That's right.

[Michael Kasin]

That's a New York thing. That's a New York thing. I don't know if it's an Albany thing, I don't know if it's an eerie thing. You know what I'm saying? New York, which is the coolest place, you know, 5% back you say, yo, Mecca, New York, all that, center of the universe and all that. Okay, but if it is, then okay, what's the accountability factor? That it's gotta, it's gotta roll like kings and queens.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

A word is born and your bond is life and you shall die before your word shall fail.

[Curtis Blow]

Ah, I heard that before.

[Michael Kasin]

Yeah, yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Now the alliance in the. As you were talking about hip hop.

[Curtis Blow]

The hip hop alliance is. Well, first let me shout out KRS1, who is our chairman on the road for seven months, y' all, out in Europe and, and, and I just seen.

[DJ Envy]

Him body somebody in Europe too. I guess the sound man was messing with the sound.

[Curtis Blow]

Oh yeah.

[DJ Envy]

Chris turned off the music and did like a, a seven minute freestyle just going at him. Destroy. It was. The crowd was going crazy. But that was nothing.

[Michael Kasin]

There's nothing like him.

[DJ Envy]

That's crazy.

[Michael Kasin]

Listen, man, I've been watching this dude, man, 40 years, man. He's the only dude I've ever seen, only mc, you know, and also my, my, my, my buddy. Buddy. Brother. Brother is Kumo D, who really kind of like opened the door to the scientific execution of vernacular and vocabulary.

[Curtis Blow]

Smart Chris Karras.

[Michael Kasin]

One man's the only dude I ever seen that will walk in the room and change the molecular composition of the room of MCs. Because he'll go in a room with no matter what age and say, yo, who MC in here? And everybody's like, nah, y. I just work for ups. I used to do it. But yeah, you know, straight up and down he'll go in a Room and like, who's the emcee in here? And Cats would be like, yo, that's the thing that he do. You know, me, I'm a songwriter, you know, and I'm. I'm a historian. I'm a voice person. I like to consider myself an administrator, a builder, a creator, and. And somebody who could bring the ball up and then divvy out the rock. That's what I like to do. And so we. You also, you know, I know my lane. I know my roles and my role. When Kurt asked me to be one of those. Those people in the Hip Hop Alliance. Yeah. Being a magnet. If people gonna ask me, I'm gonna talk about what I'm doing, but can I actually put a little bit in there? You know, back in the day, the Cooley High, they say, can, you know, put a little bit in for the. For the. For the ones that ain't here.

[Curtis Blow]

Right, right.

[Michael Kasin]

And that was always the ethic of. Or at least the goal ethic of hip Hop.

[DJ Envy]

That's right.

[Michael Kasin]

To put a little bit in. To say that unionizing is a necessity. And also the structure that was built. It's not just talk. It's real. And get those numbers. It might not have a flashy time. We thank you for the time that you was able. You could have said, yo, I don't know. We just want to talk to you, Chuck, about radio Armageddon. Right. And we're so beyond that. But like I said, my brother over there at Def Jam and the work that Tunzi as a brother, being able to carry the mantelpiece, we know that it's a shell, and they got Justin Bieber and people like that over there. But, you know, but Def Jam, I was there at the be. Well, not at the beginning. This man was there at the beginning. You've seen the movie Crush Groove, all that jam. But my guys, you know, the Public Enemy guys, Hank Shockley Flav, you know, Terminator all the way down. Well, I would like to think after ll, we. We put electric. Electric fixtures in the building. You know what I'm saying? Also with grace by the Beastie Boys, who never get enough talk either for what they're able to do. So being able to take that light. What I've been able to be in this. In this. In this industry is a prism. And if you know anything about a prism, the light goes to the prism and then it bounces all different areas. And that's my responsibility and my goal.

[Curtis Blow]

Like a diamond.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

How do they support the alliance?

[Curtis Blow]

And well, well, this is Chuck D, everyone. He is our president. I just want to say, you know, I got a call from the founder, one of our founders, actually, Chuck D is the founder, along with myself and Scott X. So I got a call from Scott X, who is one of the presidents of the naacp and he said, man, we need a union. So I immediately called Chuck and we started this thing back in 2007, but we got railroaded, we got sidetracked. And so we started it again about 2000, 19 or something. 2000? Well, 20, 22 actually. We formed the organization and I want to shout out Chub Rock, who is our vice president as well.

[Michael Kasin]

There's a lot of people doing real work. You know me, I'm, I'm, I'm more like a recruiter out there. I do a lot of things. But this is the thing when Chuck, you know, try to bring light to the situation and I'm involved whenever they want to call me when an emergency break glass.

[Curtis Blow]

Gotcha. Yep, yep. So we have a whole team. It's Cynthia Horner, you guys know her from right on magazine back in the Right on and Beverly Page, and there's Tara Martin. There's so many people that we have on board helping out with this organization, a labor force organization, and we specialize in IPS and trademarks and publishing, trying to fight for the fair wages and fair royalties. Very, very important. And in health care, you guys were talking about the black don't dead track, right? And it's, it's. Health care is the number one issue out there for all artists across the world right now. These, they have millions of dollars that they're making for record companies and don't have health care, physical and mental, you know, and, and as it's critical, it's very important that we establish that, that we can find you health care to help you out in your time of need. So that's the hip hop alliance. Hiphopalliance.org Anything that you need from hip hop, dealing with your manager, dealing with your agent, your record company, publishing, streaming, trademarks, you know, all of that stuff. We have the experts working for you. And so just get with us. It's free to join right now. And yeah, what's the website? Hip hop alliance.org hip hopliance.org I do.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Have one more question for Chuck D.

[Michael Kasin]

Well, number one, my, my, my, my. One of my maintaining year by year goals is never to be donkey of the day. That'll never happen.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That'll never happen.

[Michael Kasin]

No, no, no, no. My goal is to never be Donkey or donkey of the day, ass with no pass, you know, addicted to the screens or screaming for the laughs. You know what I'm saying? Not trying to be that.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

No, I, I, I've learned so much from both of y' all today, man. I, I just want to ask, are we in an information war? Are a culture war and, and which one is radio Armageddon fighting?

[Michael Kasin]

You're in the disinformation age and that started at the turn of the century and it's had several different technological and cultural and, and also societal bumps in the road. Nobody really can explain, nobody can't explain what the pandemic was. They still people, there's some people out there that don't even remember it. That's true.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah.

[Michael Kasin]

There's some people out there say they might be bad. Oh, I'm this, I'm that. Yeah, I remember your ass stayed in the crib during April 2020. No, but nobody was on the block. Yeah, yeah, right. You know, so you're in a, a disinformation blizzard of data coming at the human mind that might not be and has probably never has been able to handle it. Now new, new people will be born and maybe they'll decipher and handle information that's coming like a blizzard. But for people from the last century, last centurions, probably not. So the information and data and all that, it's, it's a non stop blizzard. And how to navigate that. I think people have to be taught how to be netizens because if they, they're not citizens anymore, citizens is like, hey Charlemagne, shake your hand, look you in the eye, mama, where's blonde and all that. You got people that think that it's something right now. You always got to look at seven year windows. So the answer to your question is that there's been some things that's been unexplained. Usually when I tell people something's for gazy, I said, oh man, that's Butler Pa. Man, let me stop. But you know, but it's, there's things that we're not going to be able to come up with answers for that we got to go inside ourselves, build a shell and build a tunnel into those with like mindedness. Because you're not going to be able to have your like not mindedness get to somebody who's paying you no mind. Mind over matters. A terrible thing sometimes. You know when it's when they say you don't matter and they don't mind paying you no mind. Damn.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And what are those Books.

[Michael Kasin]

These books. I'm an artist. I'm a illustrator.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yes sir.

[Michael Kasin]

It's the beginning of my. And I, I could get all my. I've. I've created 12 books. I have one for you, Kurt. I'll send the whole thing. But okay, I have, I have 12 art books and I started out as an illustrator and politically and cartoon wise, I'm actually two artists at the same time. But that's a whole nother story. But I, my. My company is called Enemy Books. It's Kashuk is a book company that publishes my. My book label. And Johnny Temple is a great guy because he's put out books by Glenn Freeman and Black Flag and all that stuff. But he's right there in Brooklyn. And I have had art shows around the world. Look to have some stuff down in MoMA one year because I like a lot of people talk pop stuff like Basquiat, but no Basque. But they'll wear some basket because hip, cool thing to do. But it has to be made to be hip and curated to a point where like. Oh yeah, I think that's cool. I was, you know, we were coming up when Basque. I was there doing this thing more. So you. Because you was in the city. Me, I was at Delphi and I was. I wanted to just like I could take that kid, you know, that's, that was, that's that competitive. I was more. I'm more competitive as an illustrator and I do kind of like, I don't caricatures. It's like I don't care if they exact or accurate. I could do that paint scope. But it's all about style in art, right? And everybody has art in them. It doesn't mean that you're trying to compete against your iPhone and filters. So I think that also got to be developed also high schools could do a better job and. And trying to curate their drama classes because everybody want to be in the movies, right? But what happened to, you know, the football or the basketball team gets supported but the arts programs don't.

[Curtis Blow]

That's right.

[Michael Kasin]

But at the end of the day everybody's buying art or led to consume art. And you can't have companies and corporations control art and they don't let companies and corporations control sports because in the high school and the college level, although now you have the nil and stuff like that, but there's always that balance and there's a flow there in the arts, we've seen it truncated. So the arts, health union, music, I'm a culturalist, a raptivist and a culturalist. I am good at the things I'm good at, and most of the things I am not good at. So when one thing that saves you most of the time, that doesn't make you a donkey of the day asks me a question, is the thing that always is cool. I don't know that's right. Or. Or, like, I got no words. Or. When you ain't got nothing to say, say nothing.

[Curtis Blow]

Well, I say. I say this, that Chuck D is a great artist. I have seen his work. I mean, we have this group chat that we have for the Hip hop alliance. About 10, 15 people on the group chat, and we're discussing business and. Or traumatic situations that happen or who we can help next. And Chuck, when there's a death in our community, Chuck will do a art piece right quick and post it before we get off the chat. Yeah, I'm like, this man is incredible.

[Michael Kasin]

I don't think it's incredible is I trained myself and I won't talk long about. I trained myself back in the day to be a courtroom artist. And we're starting to see, like, with my man's case, now you're seeing only courtroom drawings, right. Back in the day, the courtroom illustrator would have to do the illustration and then do jet down to the TV station to get it for the 6 o' clock news, right? But then now with, you know, with phones and gadgets, and you can actually send it through the text and all that's different. But as you see in the New York case, no photos, no cameras are allowed. So they still, like in last century on that tip. But what's coming out of there is illustrations, Right. So I trained myself especially like, this is what you do with tour downtime. But then I created things.

[Curtis Blow]

Then again, you have your own style.

[Michael Kasin]

Yeah, style just like what I'm seeing. You got. You like. No, if you have your own style, nobody can bite you. I mean, they gotta bite you, but you're not competing against anybody. So. Yeah, I could do something like draw this whole room off a memory right to the accurate. But, you know, I ain't spending a long time doing that.

[DJ Envy]

I mean, Chuck ain't listening on them calls, though. Do you know when y' all talk, he just. On the tag.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Oh, he can multitask.

[Michael Kasin]

Oh, yeah, yeah, I multitask. I gotta draw this whole room and not even look at that or y' all. That's crazy, because it's like, I could. But then it ain't about me on that tip. I just. You guys Enjoy my book. I'll send you all my whole thank you catalog. You can see. You see that I bought your book. That's all right. Let me give you mine. I got books. I'll send you guys.

[DJ Envy]

Well, Chuck D, ladies and gentlemen, Curtis Blow. We appreciate y' all so much for joining us, man.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And not just for joining us, man. Just thank you for, you know, existing and thank you for, you know, all the. The fights y' all fought for. Hip hop for black people. We really appreciate y' all.

[DJ Envy]

Absolutely.

[Michael Kasin]

Thank you. I appreciate y' all are giants. And. And I really appreciate, once again, for. For. For being able to offer your throne to the Godfather.

[Curtis Blow]

Oh, man, no, no, no. My. My gratefulness is extended to you guys. This is the first time I've ever met you in person. Charlemagne. I think.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I think so too.

[Curtis Blow]

Yeah, yeah, I've heard about you. You are a big, kind, big time cat.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

God is good. I'm doing okay. Yeah. Thank you, brother.

[Curtis Blow]

And mv, you know, we go way back and my man, it's good to see you always. You know, I shouting out the five boroughs. I gotta shout out my Knicks, you.

[Michael Kasin]

Know, I just stay off of 7th Avenue. The lead increased in the fourth quarter. It's us. Stay on the 7th Avenue.

[Curtis Blow]

I talked to Bernard King the other day, and he is a good cat, man. He is very. You know, he was like MVP for the NBA a couple of years and, you know, it's just amazing to still be in touch with people like Patrick Ewing and John Starks and Alan Houston.

[DJ Envy]

Starbury, I see over there.

[Curtis Blow]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Alan Houston. Big, big shout out to him and my boy Unk and the New York Knicks. I hope we get this game six tonight, everyone.

[DJ Envy]

We got it.

[Michael Kasin]

When you name check people in basketball, that had to be something. When you run into those players and they're like, man, you name check me. Like Dominique Wilkins and people like that.

[Curtis Blow]

Oh, man. Yes, yes, yes. It's always great to be a part of that whole scene, you know? So shout out to Jalen Brunson and Kat and og, My man, OG Bridges, man. What a great team. What a great team.

[Michael Kasin]

I like to leave with one note just. Just to say that we want to be able sometimes to use social media for all the power that it has been in its creation. It's always better to shine somebody's day up by congratulating instead of it being used for hating.

[DJ Envy]

There you go.

[Curtis Blow]

There you go.

[Michael Kasin]

Absolutely. I mean, the compliment, when you receive a compliment, if you can open your day, when you open up whatever if you receive a compliment, just give a compliment on just gp, Right? And, yo, man, I love that. That's cool. I could dig it. Boom. Like that. It goes a long way because we're gonna have to figure out, you know, a certain life cycle with these gadgets and devices because they. They here to stay, you know, even when they get implanted into your. Into your gums.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Oh, that's coming. That's right. Norlink is right there. Absolutely.

[Curtis Blow]

And shouting out the five boroughs, y' all. We can't forget that, man. I love you all. Queens, you know, my heart is in Queens. Long Island, Brooklyn. I love you, Harlem. You know, I was born and raised.

[Michael Kasin]

In Harlem, Connecticut and Jersey.

[Curtis Blow]

And the Boogie down, you know, we can't forget the boogie Down. Bronx gave us hip hop, this whole movement, and the future is yours. I just want to tell all the young people listening, the future of this planet is in your hands, you know?

[DJ Envy]

And don't forget about Staten Island. Come on, you talk. Everybody.

[Michael Kasin]

Everybody.

[DJ Envy]

Forget about Statin.

[Michael Kasin]

I was going to say Richmond County. That's right.

[Curtis Blow]

Right.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Curtis Blow.

[Curtis Blow]

Chuck D, man, I love you guys. And thank you, bro. Thank you, thank you, thank you for the movement. Thank you for the support and Hip Hop Church, y' all. Coming June 5th up in Harlem. 160 West 146th Street. Y' all see the. You saw the Godfather? Harlem.

[Michael Kasin]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Curtis Blow]

You know that building that he lives in right next door is the Hip Hop Church. Okay. All right, so big shout out to all my people up in Harlem as well as the Boogie Down. I love you all. Let's go continue this movement. Hip hop is the number one stream music around the globe right now. We are the voice of the people. And let's take it further. Let's leave them with these words of Martin Luther King that any time is the right time to do the right thing.

[DJ Envy]

That's right. And it's the Breakfast Club, y' all. Good morning.

[Michael Kasin]

Wake that ass up early in the morning. The Breakfast Club.

[DJ Envy]

Why is a soap opera western like Yellowstone so wildly successful? The American west with Dan Flores is the latest show from the Meat Eater Podcast Network. So join me starting Tuesday, May 6, where we'll delve into stories of the west and come to understand how it helps inform the ways in which we experience the region today. Listen to the American west with Dan Flores on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts.

[Michael Kasin]

Or wherever you get your podcasts. The number one hit podcast, the Girlfriends, is back with something new, the Girlfriends Spotlight. Each week you'll hear women triumph over adversity. You'll meet Tracey, who survived a terrifying attack. I remember that feeling of okay, this is how I die and turn that dark darkness into light. I want to take over the world and just leave this place better than I found it. So come and join our girl gang. Listen to the girlfriend Spotlight on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. I always had to be so good. No one could ignore me, carve my path with data and drive.

[Curtis Blow]

But some people only see who I am on paper.

[Michael Kasin]

The paper ceiling the limitations from degree screens to stereotypes that are holding back over 70 million stars. Workers skilled through alternative routes rather than a bachelor's degree. It's time for skills to speak for themselves. Find resources for breaking through [e-mail] brought to you by opportunityatwork and the Ad Council. The culture's favorite reggaeton historian, public scholar and recording artist. Yes, that means I've done the work on my show, the Regatta Podcast. I'm not only talking to Flor Mior, who has the number one reg track in the world right now. I'm also going beyond PERO to speak with music innovators like R Now, who is known for her media Hogera tracks and collaborating with artists like Baby. We're also giving you the cultural breakdown straight from the source. Listen to on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast. You're listening to an iHeart podcast.