INTERVIEW: Dr. Joel Tudman Talks New Book 'The Fight to Find Yourself', Healing, Building Relationships + More

Summary

The Breakfast Club – Dr. Joel Tudman on 'The Fight to Find Yourself,' Healing, and Building Relationships

iHeartPodcasts | November 20, 2025

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Episode Overview

This special interview features Dr. Joel Tudman (mistakenly introduced as Dr. Joe Barnett due to a transcript error), author of the new book The Fight to Find Yourself: Moving from Uncertain to Unstoppable. Hosted by DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, Charlamagne Tha God, and Lauren, the conversation delves deep into healing from past wounds, battling depression and suicidal thoughts, the importance of therapy and faith, and building healthy relationships—including marriage, parenting, and self-reflection.

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Main Themes and Structure

• Dr. Tudman’s Personal Journey: Breakdown, Healing, and Faith
• Mental Health Struggles and the Realities of Suicide
• The Role of Faith and Scripture in the Healing Process
• Parenting, Generational Trauma, and Raising Emotionally Healthy Kids
• How Relationships and Partnership Aid (or Complicate) Self-Discovery
• Vulnerability, Boundaries, and the Evolving Self
• Honest Reflections on Support, Mentorship, and Communication

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Dr. Tudman’s Breaking Point & Journey to Healing

• Trigger Moments: Dr. Tudman discusses hitting multiple breaking points where outward success couldn't cover inner pain. He describes stepping away from public speaking by his pastor’s advice for 9-12 months, during which he faced severe depression and suicidal ideation.

  “Every accolade, every award, every stage…could not solve the inner pain. … The pain had gotten pretty bad. I think I put a gun to my head twice during that process, trying to figure out how to maneuver through. … Once I found a pretty good therapist, things started changing.”
  — Dr. Tudman [04:02]

• Impact of Personal Loss: The back-to-back losses of his father and son were pivotal, forcing him to reassess and rebuild his emotional life and identity.

  “Those two deaths broke down everything I knew... My own blueprint and I had to come up with a new one.”
  — Dr. Tudman [06:40]

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2. Confronting Suicidal Ideation with Honesty, Empathy, and Faith

• Chemical, Personal, & Spiritual Factors: Dr. Tudman resists oversimplifying suicidal ideation as solely “the devil’s work,” pointing to chemical/biological contributors and the complexity of each case.

  “There are some things that happen to us internally, chemically…that only scientists can answer. … I think it involves a lot of study, a lot of interpretation, and the opportunity to really converse with people that have the problem.”
  — Dr. Tudman [08:31]

• Defying Stigma in Faith Communities: He calls out religious communities that default to condemnation, advocating for dialogue and empathy:

  “It’s a lack of empathy and compassion to have a conversation with the person to find out why they felt that way… The missing piece…is the person. Why do you feel that way?”
  — Dr. Tudman [10:26]

• Immediate Support Matters: DJ Envy shares his own history with suicidal thoughts, stressing intervention and authentic conversations over dismissal, which can pressure someone to prove their intent.

  “The worst thing you can do…is kind of sign them off. … Because they almost feel like, I have to show you I was gonna do it. … And once they do it, there is no oops.”
  — DJ Envy [11:49]

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3. Faith, Scripture, and the “Right” Fight

• Faith as Daily Practice: Dr. Tudman encourages “loading yourself up daily” with scripture for emotional resilience, not just relying on faith in crisis. He demonstrates using modern tools (like ChatGPT!) to find Bible verses for emotional struggles [15:08–16:27].

  “Find me a scripture that’s encouraging for depression. … It’s just that simple.”
  — Dr. Tudman [15:53]

  Verses cited: Psalms 34:18, Matthew 11:28, 2 Corinthians 1:3–4.

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4. Addressing Youth Mental Health & Parenting

• Parents as Emotional Detectives: Dr. Tudman urges parents to see past behavior as signals, not weakness:

  “Your children are not weak. … They’re confused, and they don’t have an answer, because if they had an answer, that wouldn’t be the choice. … Build your relationship so you can actually see the changes.”
  — Dr. Tudman [17:44]

• Staying Engaged in Children’s Worlds: He recommends monitoring not just what kids consume, but also what they enjoy, and joining them, not controlling them:

  “Try to stay lock and step with them. … I don’t expect them to be me, I expect her to be a child, and I want to go through that experience with her.”
  — Dr. Tudman [19:36]

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5. Discovering the Self through the Lens of Faith

• Can You Know Yourself Without Knowing God? Dr. Tudman says the answer depends on the individual’s discipline, but for him, self-knowledge is impossible without understanding the Creator.

  “Vulnerability and openness…was our existence from the beginning. But…now they're hiding… That’s how doubt and hiding seep in.”
  — Dr. Tudman [20:20]

• Journey vs. Destination: Emphasizes continual evolution and self-work as more important than any static “arrival point.”

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6. Partnership, Marriage & Shared Fights

• Support in Relationships: Dr. Tudman and the hosts explore the imbalance that can happen when one partner is “fighting for themselves” harder than the other. The ideal isn’t constant 50/50.

  “Sometimes it’s going to be 80/20, sometimes…70/30. Love is love. … The journey to becoming who you are together will be based off…the two of you remaining honest and open.”
  — Dr. Tudman [23:17]

• Role Flexibility & Individual Paths: Both Dr. Tudman and Lauren discuss how their relationships and expectations have shifted as they matured, prioritized intentionality, set boundaries, and grew deeper connections by discussing values, practicalities, and vulnerabilities.

• Importance of Honest Conversations: Dr. Tudman advises before physical or financial entanglement, couples should talk about faith, conflict resolution, parenthood philosophy, and more:

  • How do you handle conflict?
  • What are your triggers?
  • What are your expectations for children and parenting?
  • What do you believe?

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7. Vulnerability, Mentorship & Communication Styles

• Communication Dynamics: Lauren and Charlamagne discuss how differences in delivery (direct vs. soft) affect the uptake of advice and mentorship. DJ Envy notes, “If he doesn’t love you, he’s not gonna be on you at all…he's very hard on people he loves.” [56:32]

• Processing Feedback, Validation & Triggers: Lauren reflects on her journey to feeling secure in her career and communications, and how previous traumas and mentors’ feedback intertwine with self-worth.

  “You got to get to the point where you can have those conversations without having to do this [defensive gestures]… There’s a possibility you’re gonna get hurt, and there’s nothing you can do about it. So live. … Do the surgery, go into the fight.”
  — Dr. Tudman [53:13]

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8. Healing as a Lifelong Process

• No Finish Line: Both Dr. Tudman and Lauren reinforce that “finding yourself” is an ongoing process; self-awareness changes the way we relate to our own past and others’ struggles.
• Boundaries in Difficult Relationships: Dr. Tudman gives practical advice for disengaging when others aren’t ready for healthy dialogue.

  “Now that I fought to find me, there’s no need for me to fight you, because you don’t know you.”
  — Dr. Tudman [45:15]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Suicidal Thoughts & Faith:

  “Most pastors will straight up tell you, ‘you’re going to hell…that’s the devil’s work.’ Again, I think it’s unprofessional…it’s a lack of empathy and compassion to have a conversation with the person to find out why they felt that way.”
  — Dr. Tudman [10:26]

• On Scripture as a Tool:

  “Let it give you a word. It’s coming from the Bible, man. If you don’t trust it, go pick your Bible up and trace it…But at least attempt, at least attempt to speak into your own life.”
  — Dr. Tudman [17:09]

• On Parenting:

  “Your children are not weak. Your children don’t have an answer.”
  — Dr. Tudman [17:44]

• On Partnership:

  “Marriage is not 50/50. It's going to be 80/20, 10/100, 70/30… There’s always going be one that's weak, one that's strong. … That’s the power of love.”
  — Dr. Tudman [23:14]

• On Starting Relationships:

  “All those things need to be talked about first—what makes you happy, what makes you sad, how do you argue… All those little things we avoid because we’re attracted.”
  — Dr. Tudman [28:18]

• On Healing and Growth:

  “When you actually find you, it opens your eyes so much that you start looking at all your choices and all your decisions, and you can see the unhealthy picks, the unhealthy partners, the unhealthy conversations now.”
  — Dr. Tudman [43:33]

• On Acceptance and Validation:

  “If I didn’t think you were good, you wouldn’t be here. So quit worrying about that. Be you. … Throw everything at the glass door.”
  — Dr. Tudman [61:13]

• Who is the Book Written For?

  “Both. I wrote it for both. The person I used to be needs to see it, and the person that I am needs to see it.”
  — Dr. Tudman [63:17]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Dr. Tudman’s breaking point, therapy, and healing – [04:02–05:22]
• Faith and mental health, understanding suicide – [08:31–13:27]
• How to fight depression with scripture/technology – [15:08–17:20]
• Messaging for parents and kids on mental health – [17:44–20:11]
• Role of faith in self-discovery – [20:20–22:52]
• Relationship and marriage honesty, expectations, finances – [23:11–28:18]
• Lauren and Dr. Tudman dive deep on vulnerability, boundaries, and healing – [39:44–46:40]
• The lifelong journey of healing – [54:22–56:14]
• Mentorship, communication styles, and validation – [56:14–62:46]
• Who the book is for/final reflection and prayer – [63:13–64:18]

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Takeaways

• Healing and self-knowledge require honesty, vulnerability, and breaking unhealthy cycles.
• Faith and scripture can be daily tools for mental resilience, especially when accessed with modern resources.
• Relationships—romantic or otherwise—flourish with authenticity, intentionality, and ongoing dialogue about emotional, financial, and spiritual alignment.
• Parents and loved ones should watch for signals of pain before a crisis, responding with empathy, not condemnation.
• Everyone, regardless of stage, is evolving; support and boundaries empower healthier connections.

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“Throw everything at the glass door. … They want you here, bring you to The A game. Bring your A game to the game. That’s who you are. They cannot be who they are without you.”
— Dr. Joel Tudman [61:13]

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Recommended:

• The Fight to Find Yourself: Moving from Uncertain to Unstoppable is out now.
• If you or a loved one is struggling with mental health, reach out to a professional or support network.

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Summary prepared for listeners of The Breakfast Club who want the heart, wisdom, and candid takeaways from Dr. Joel Tudman’s impactful appearance.

Transcript

[Lauren]

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[Dr. Joe Barnett]

All.

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[Dr. Joe Barnett]

Hold up.

[DJ Envy]

Every day I wake up.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Wake your ass up. The Breakfast Club. Y' all finished or y' all done?

[DJ Envy]

Morning everybody. It's DJ Envy. Just hilarious. Charlemagne the guy. We are the Breakfast Club. Lon Larose is here as well. We got a special guest in the.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Building we told you we was gonna have.

[DJ Envy]

That's right, Dr. Joe Elton. Welcome back, brother.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

Thank you for having us back. I didn't get to talk to you last time.

[DJ Envy]

Nah, I wasn't here. I was out of town. How you doing, brother?

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

Great. It's an honor to meet you, brother.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

New book, the Fight to Find Yourself Moving from Uncertain to Unstoppable is out now.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

Yes, sir.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I want to ask you, Dr. Joe, what was the moment like, that real breaking point that made you realize you weren't living as your authentic self?

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

Several moments. I don't think I can categorize it to 1. I think it was a breakdown for me. Chain of events, a lot of success. And the success couldn't solve the pain. And so once all the breakdowns started to accumulate, I started realizing this stuff is just a band aid. Every accolade, every award, every stage, every opportunity could not solve the inner pain. And so having a good community, of course, Jay, of course, other brothers and other ministers that knew that I was hurting started looking into the inside, saying, hey man, pull yourself back. We need to talk to you. My mentor who became my pastor, he began to talking to me. He told me to stop speaking. So for I think nine months to a year, I didn't travel, I didn't go anywhere. He made me stay home and minister at the house so he could watch over me and check over me. But the pain had gotten pretty bad. Pretty bad. I think I put a gun to my head twice during that process, trying to figure out how to maneuver through. But then Once I found a pretty good therapist, things started changing and I started journaling, started documenting, and seeing things change for myself.

[Lauren]

You talk about in the opening of the book going through the motions of things and how it just feels so empty. Yeah, but you also have such a big platform, and you're speaking places. You can fall back into the motions easily, even at certain points in, like, how do you kind of stop yourself from falling back into the motion of things? Because you know, you're entertaining at the same time, too.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

That's a great question. Let's do it like this. When the anointing comes on, you speak, comes on you for the task, for the moment. So the anointing comes on you to do what you need to do. You study yourself, you prepare, you do what you need to do. You pray. That's God doing his thing through you. When that's over, it's over. And you can walk off the stage and feel like you absolutely failed, even though people were absolutely blessed. You can walk off the stage, get a phone call that just rips everything away. After all those people have given their lives to Christ. And that's what I'm talking about, that moment. You're anointed for that moment. And then when you come off, you don't have the badge to live. And that's what I was experiencing. So it was a massive fall off. And I got tired of that, Real tired of it.

[DJ Envy]

What changed? What gave you the feeling of wanting to live again?

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

I lost my father and my son back to back. Both of those relationships were difficult. Having my son when I was 16 years old, he came to live with me his sophomore year, and then my father. We had a good relationship, but it wasn't like what you want a father and son to have. I respected him very much so. And he wasn't an absentee. We just didn't have a relationship. And so that thing grew, grew, grew and grew. So in the process, I built all these walls that protected me emotionally. And the last two weeks of my dad's life, I spent with him in the hospital. And I got to know him like I never knew him before. I held his hand, washed him, shaved him, I fed him, scratch his back. It was a different feeling for me that unleashed this avalanche of emotions that I had never felt before. And I needed to figure out how to deal with them. For a little bit, I felt like it was great. And then for a second, I was like, God, how could you do this? How could you wait till the end? And I'm this old to give me the feeling of being a son. I'm already a man. And I've already mastered the way I do life, you know, and so it may not be perfect, but it's mine. And when that happened, those two deaths broke down everything I knew, it broke down. My own blueprint and I had to come up with a new one.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

So you lost yourself because of what you lost?

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

100%.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Man. Man.

[DJ Envy]

When people hear you, you at your lowest, and you're feeling like taking your life, most people will say that is the devil working and it's not anything but the devil trying to get you to take your life. Do you agree with that?

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

I don't know if I agree with it or not. I'm gonna be honest with you. I know that Satan comes to kill, steal and destroy. I don't think God does that. But what I will say is that there are some things that happen to us internally, chemically, that we are born with or born without that only scientists can answer. I don't think the scientist is God. Not saying that, but I don't think that's a question that you could just easily answer from a five or six minute conversation. I think it involves a lot of study, a lot of interpretation, and the opportunity to really converse with people that have the problem. Not people are just sitting around the table discussing it.

[DJ Envy]

Because when most people feel like they want to take their life, it's a lot of times they feel worthless, right? They feel like that they don't have an answer. They'd rather. They feel like life would be better without them in it 100% than with them in it. And it's learning that complete opposite. Did you have that feeling?

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

100%. 100%, I felt it, but because I had understood the word of God and had enough left in the tank, I had enough to kind of come back and forth and talk to myself. When I was younger, I didn't. I just took the pills and. But I didn't die. When I got older and I pulled that trigger. I pulled that trigger to. To die, but I didn't. I felt that way. But I will say I was going back and forth, dialoguing in my head. Now this is something I want to say straight up. Most pastors, most people in church are going to straight up tell, you know, you're going to hell, you know, Absolutely. And that is the devil's work. Again, I think it's unprofessional and it's a lack of empathy and compassion to have a conversation with the person to find out why they felt that way. Why do you feel that way? I think that's a part of the conversation. I understand the eternal security and eternal damnation. We got that, the religious perspective, the walk with God. But somebody still needs to get in your walk, get in your shoes with the word of God and help you walk through why you feel that way. I think that's the missing ingredient. Great question, great debate. But the missing piece of the question and the conversation is the person. Why do you feel that way?

[DJ Envy]

See, because I've been there before and I write it in my book of me being. Feeling worthless, right? Me doing things, making me feel like an embarrassment to my family 100%, and me feeling like not being here would be better for my family. Took a lot of praying, a lot of talking, a lot of discussion. But when somebody ever tells me that they're thinking about it, I jump to it immediately. Right? And the reason I jump to it and jump to have a conversation. I have conversations with so many people online. But the reason I jump to it is because another thing that also gives me great fear is sometimes people feel like, I gotta show you I would do it. You know, I mean, like, I'm thinking about it. And a lot of times we write that person off like, ah, yo, just, just go sleep. Yo, yo, just go take a shot.

[Lauren]

Just.

[DJ Envy]

Just go talk to somebody. And I feel like the worst thing you can do to somebody in that position is kind of sign them off 100% because they almost feel like, I have to show you I was gonna do it.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

Yeah.

[DJ Envy]

And once I have. Once I show you, there is no oops, there is no.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

You don't fix that.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah.

[DJ Envy]

Can't fix that.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

Yeah. That's why I said the person. The person matters. I love the theological conversation, the. The church conversation. It's great to have. But put the. Put the collar down and talk to the person and then we'll navigate there. Why do you feel that way? What caused you to get that way? That's more important right now, you know, And I love what you said about it, because some people say, I'm just going to do it. And if you. And if. And if they do it, we don't get an opportunity to come back.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I love this conversation because, you know, the fight to find yourself. What if you feel like, you know, that fight is no longer. That fight should no longer be fought here on this earthly plane. And what I mean by that is like, I had a friend commit suicide a few years ago, and this. She was so Intentional about everything. So strategic about everything. And then when you go look at her, like social media posts, she was asking questions like, I wonder what my next life would be like. And it was during COVID and she was saying things like, you know, one thing Covid taught me is that I would have, you know, jumped off the slave ship a long time ago. Like, so she knew she was ready to go, and so she, you know, committed suicide.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

She felt like the other side was better than this side. I mean, which is what I don't.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I can't say her caller.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

Was that what you're saying, or you just.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah, that's how I kind of feel.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

You feel, but don't know if she felt that.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah, I don't know if she felt that.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

Yeah, I think for me, I have felt that. I have felt that because there's no dying over there. That's what we teach. There's no more murder over there. You know, it's eternal life over there. Eternal security. And I'm better off gone than here. We don't know. That is the point of the conversation. If you can have the conversation. If you can pause from your daily life, from your routine, and have the conversation with the person. We just got through talking about one of Jason Wilson's posts that we miss the red flags, and sometimes when the white flag is pushed, it's too late. We miss the red flags because of our routines, because of our life. It's not that it's our fault, but we have to slow down. If we're going to be in a relationship with people, be in covenant with people, then the relationship has to be deeper than us kicking it. It has to be deeper than us just making it. I think Jay and our relationship is incredible. We're both making it in our field. We're making it in what we do, but we pause to find out about our mental. Yo, how you thinking? Why are you thinking that way? What's going. And then I have to be comfortable enough to be vulnerable with them and tell the absolute truth. I'm broken. And then I find the scripture that says he's close to the brokenhearted. That's in the Bible. So I need the scripture now. I don't need the scripture to talk about suicide. I need the scripture before suicide. I need the empowerment before thinking about taking my life. So the Word starts talking to me when I feel like doing it.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

So stay on that.

[DJ Envy]

What.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

What does it look like to fight, right?

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

Oh, man. Fighting, right is with scripture. Loading yourself up daily because you want to make Your plans from your faith, not your feelings. Your feelings are going to change. They're going to ebb and flow based off of who you're connected with, based off of what happens to you. We fight wrong all the time. We fight wrong with the wrong people. We fight wrong with our diets. We fight wrong with addictions. We fight wrong by just our thinking. And so the scriptures talk about us capturing every imagination, every thought and bringing it under subjection. You know, that is how you fight. But you have to learn how to do that through the word of God. And I was just sitting there and I told Jay, I said, when I get there, because I know that your audience is full of church people and not church people.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Salute to the good brother Dr. J. Barnett.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

So I always. Let's just say I'm on Chat GPT. Find me a scripture that's encouraging for depression. Find me a scripture that's encouraging for depression. It's just that simple.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And what does the Bible say about Chat GPT? I don't know. I'm just asking.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

Get out of here. Let's see what Chad say. Chad took me to Psalms 34, 18. The Lord is close to the brokenhearted and save those who are crushed in spirit. I got that like what, 30 seconds?

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

Matthew 11:28. Come to me, all you are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 2nd Corinthians 1, 3, 4. Praise be to God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of compassion and the God of all comfort, who comforts us all in our troubles. We have to take it upon ourselves, no matter what our level is in study. You may not be a theologian, you may not be a doctor in, in biblical studies, but you can grab this technology. And this technology just like it's teaching us how to go everywhere across the world. You can grab it whatever you feel. I'm telling this to you, brother sister. Whatever you feel, grab it. Speak what you feel. Let it give you a word. It's coming from the Bible, man. If you don't trust it, go pick your Bible up and trace it and make sure that's what it says. But at least attempt, at least attempt to speak into your own life.

[DJ Envy]

What do you say? This is a two part question. One, people always say that people who commit suicide or thinking of committing suicide or tried to commit suicide are weak, right? And for parents out there, seems like the suicide conversation and depression conversation is a lot more frequent than when we were kids. What do you say to parents in those situations?

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

Your children are not Weak. Your children don't have an answer. Your children are not weak. Your children are beautiful. Your children are strong. Your children are confused, and they don't have an answer because if they had an answer, that wouldn't be the choice. And I would say to the parents, continue to build your relationship with your children so you can actually see the changes. When the diet changes, when they stop doing the stuff that they love, when they stop training, when they stop talking on the phone, when they stop smiling, when you see those shifts, that's when you got to act. You can't act when the white flag goes up. They are not weak.

[Lauren]

What do you say to parents about learning how to find what they need for themselves to be able to give to their children? Because I know you talk about that in your book like you had to do a lot for yourself in your fight to then be able to fill your daughter up.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

Reading, reading, reading, reading, reading, reading, reading, reading, reading, reading everything that you can read and then reading what your children are reading. Okay? What are they actually putting into them? One of the things I had to watch, my daughter, one of my daughters, she watches a lot of television on her phone, okay? So the TV could be playing just as loud as day. She's got a headset on, and she's in a whole nother movie. So I had to take the movie. I said, what are you watching? Everything she's watching is, like, ghosts, goblins, demons, witches. Not spooky, but it's fun little movies that's giving her different ways of dealing with life. So I said, hey, let's watch something else. I have to. What are you listening to? What is the music you're listening to? So I started listening to their music. Now they laugh because they're like, yo, dad, why you listening to that? Cause I want to know what you're.

[Lauren]

Listening to, what they listening to.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

They listen to everything, and I like it. They listen to everything, and I like it. So it's to me, is trying to stay lock and step with them. I don't expect them to be me. I don't expect her to be a pastor. I don't expect her to sing in the choir. I expect her to be a child. And I want to go through that experience with her. I know what it's like to have churchy parents that don't have a clue what you're thinking, what you're listening to, where you're going, and what's actually feeding your spirit. So that's what I would say to the parents.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I want to Go a little deeper on the role faith plays in finding yourself. Because can someone truly discover who they are without first discovering who God is to them?

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

That just depends on the discipline of that particular person's faith. That's a big, broad question. You're talking to a Christian. So I'm going to view life through a Christian lens. And for me, because I believe that God created us, then I believe the path to understanding self is going to come through the Creator. Okay? When you look at how we were made, I think I opened it up in the book. When you look at how we were made, Adam and Eve are in this perfect situation with God. It's when Eve listens to what the devil says about, did God say that? Which puts this question in her head, this doubt in her head. Did he? Did he really say that? Which is what we say now. Did he really say that? Did he say it? Did he not say it? Am I saying it or is he saying it? This question. She gives the fruit to her husband. They eat it. The scripture says, I think in chapter two of verse 25, if I'm not mistaken, that they opened their eyes and they were naked. All right? And they realized it. They had been naked and unashamed, but now they realize that they're naked and unashamed. So their entire existence was based off of vulnerability and openness and transparency from the beginning. But that same openness, that same transparency becomes questioned now that they actually know they've eaten this fruit and they have this knowledge of good and evil. So now they know. And now they're hiding from the God that created them. And from that day, every last one of us are warped into ancestry and history. So all of us are shapened in sin, born in iniquity, born in sin, shaping in iniquity because of their decision, ancestry. So this is how we get there. Doubt creeps in. Is God talking to us, then our own family history, what we say we are, who we've become, that has evolved over years. I think that we're a combination of history and a combination of ancestry. So in the Christian lens, I believe that is important to know what God says about man so that you can find yourself. Because there's some wonderful things God says about us and. And if we can build off of what he said, then you're not looking for what everybody else says to build your life and to figure out who you are. You start with the word of God and take this journey. I think the journey is more important than the actual destination. That's what I believe.

[Lauren]

I love that you also talk about two in the book. Just how your wife has coached you through so many different moments in your fight for the partners out there who are like, everybody's finding themselves. But I think when I hear how you speak about her, there are certain parts and certain things you couldn't have done without her.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

Oh, God.

[Lauren]

But it has to be heavy on her as well.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

How is she balancing her own fight with helping you through your fight?

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

It's. Sometimes it's unfair. It's unfair because she had to stop fighting for herself to help me fight. But I think that's the power of love, and I think we evolve in time. I don't think that Marriage is a 50, 50. Sometimes it's going to be 80, 20. Sometimes it's going to be 10, 100. Sometimes it's going to be 70, 30. I think love is love. And whatever number adds up, that's based off of the try, the push between the two people. And there's always going to be one this week, and there's always going to be one that's strong. And so to each couple, I would say that the journey to becoming who you are together will be based off of the two of you remaining honest and open. That I can carry you today. I may not be able to carry you tomorrow. I can carry you today.

[DJ Envy]

People don't talk about a lot about how important a good partner is, right?

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

Yeah.

[DJ Envy]

Cause when I've been at my lowest many times, if it wasn't for my partner, I don't think I would be able to come out of it the way that I did.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I'm happy to be here for you.

[DJ Envy]

This guy's crazy. This guy's crazy. You know?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You know what's so crazy about this?

[DJ Envy]

I see him yesterday in the street. Right? Just happened to see him in the street. I'm with my wife and my daughter. Yeah, he's with his wife. He walks up to me, he start going, start blowing kisses at me.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

How'd your wife handle that?

[DJ Envy]

My wife didn't see his wife seen it. And his wife's like, really? Like, enough with this clown. Like, what's wrong with you?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That's not what she said. You just blow kisses at him. That's what she said. Okay, but.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

But talk about the importance of one.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

More part of that. His wife goes, did somebody just blow kisses at you? I heard somebody blowing kisses. And he goes, that was Charlamagne.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

She goes, oh, my God. I think that's beautiful that your spouses can laugh at that.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

They Can.

[DJ Envy]

I don't know how long it took them to laugh. That was funny at first. I don't think they thought it was that funny. But talk about the importance of a good partner and a good spouse when you're going through those things, because, you know, Charlamagne and myself talk about when you're really faithful in your marriage and life, it opens up a whole nother. Another life, another category, another.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

A whole nother round of favor. Absolutely. That comes upon your life. Yeah, it's a whole nother round of favor because sometimes you feel like yours ain't worth nothing and we're living off the other. Having a good spouse is the opposite of having a bad one. Okay. And I think a lot of the world is experiencing bad relationships, but you hear so much about what it takes to be in a good one. To be in a good one means you survive a lot of bad things. I don't know anybody that's been in a great relationship that doesn't have stories of wounds and cuts and memories where things have gone bad. That's what makes it good, that you can go through the storms and go through the rain and still remain. And there'll be times where you feel like walking away. There'll be times when you feel like departing. You take yours, I take mine, or you just take it all and I bounce. But the love, the commitment, the responsibility to become the one that you want to be drives everything. My. My. My wife, her name is Latasha. She's been with me. I didn't have anything. Well, that's not true. I did have something. My credit was bad. That's what was bad. Yeah, I had things, but my credit was bad. And I was able to get things without the credit. But she looked at the credit and said, yo, your credit is terrible. I can fix it for you. I said, what? She said, I can fix it for you. So she fixed my credit. Credit went up, and she's like, yo, I can handle the money. And that was different for me because, I don't know, I've never been socialized into manhood where the woman handled the money, but she could handle the money. So I let our relationship be our relationship. At first, I was a little bit embarrassed. I had this myth of manhood that if she's doing this and she's doing this, it's going to make me look stupid. But I realized my marriage is my marriage. It is not yours, and it is not yours. And it's not until I matured as a man that I understand that what goes on in my house is my house. I don't care what's happening in your house. So your spouse has to have the ability to endure with the worst of you and the best of you and likewise. And just make sure that you guys are on the same page with raising children. All right? Make sure you're on the same page with raising children so that you can recreate something beautiful and not create something that's going to be a monster.

[Lauren]

But what's the steps of that for people? Like, if you both don't have children or even if one person does have children, sometimes you don't know how a person is until they're in a situation. Even if you have conversations prior to. Like, what are the real steps to know?

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

I don't think that there is a cookie cutter step, because we're all different. I think when we spend time with each other, what are you actually doing? If you're just having sex, smoking and drinking and without having a real conversation about who you are, where you come from, what do you like? What don't you like? I think all those things need to be talked about first. What makes you happy? What makes you sad? When you get angry, do you throw things? Do you cuss? Do you go off? Do you belittle me? Can you encourage me when you don't like me? Can you still show up for me when you want to leave me? If we have to go to a function, will you embarrass me even though you're upset with me? How do you want to be appreciated? How do you want me to leave you alone? How do we argue? What are the. What are our parameters for arguing? Ours was, listen, if you leave, you come back, don't stay gone, and don't go to nobody else's house to spend the night. If you don't want to talk to me, go in the other room. But at some point in time, there must be a resolution. I think all those things matter because then we have people that get married because the sex is great. We get married because we got money and the kids are going to be pretty because we both look good. But we've done none of the other work to discover what we like. If you're Catholic and I'm Protestant, if you're Catholic, do you want the kids to be all of that little bitty stuff that we avoid because we're attracted? Those things need to be discussed. Then let's go to counseling. Let's go to counseling and see what happens. If we're Christian, let's also go visit the Christian counselors. It doesn't have to be the pastor. What is it that they're saying about our relationship and our walk with God? Because I don't want to get in our relationship, in our marriage and find out you don't believe the way I believe. Why am I just not finding that out? All of those little things need to be discussed before we ever even talk about kids. Then we start talking about it. How are we going to raise our children? How many children do you want? What kind of school do you want them to go to? Do you believe in corporal punishment? I think that's the right word. Or beating your kids or soft parented, whatever the correct words are. I think all those things matter before we do it. But we're backwards. We have sex first, we like the feeling first, then we get together, then we stay together and either end up with common law marriage or we go ahead and get married because we're already pregnant. And then we wrestle with all the other stuff later. Just flip the script. We know what to do. Just reverse the order. Too late for you to flip the script, huh?

[Lauren]

No, I don't know how my script been going. We are very intentional about a lot of the things.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

Intentionality. There we are.

[Lauren]

This is probably the first time ever. I mean, I'm 33, so I'm pretty young, but this is the first time that I feel like my intention is actually like matched. And even when it's not the best thing, like I'm not the best person and vice versa, it's still like a no. We going. We sit down. We this. We about to talk about this. And I've never, in certain conversations, I've never had. Like we had a financial conversation the other day and I was like, no one has ever.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

That's the first time you had it ever.

[Lauren]

Yeah, that was.

[DJ Envy]

Well, they knew. Their relationship is new.

[Lauren]

It's very new.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

But how new?

[Lauren]

So it's been some months, but we've been dating for longer than that. But we've been dating for about a year. But officially that's not new. Yes, it is.

[Annabe Sofa Announcer]

Yes, it is.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You need to be honest with the pastor. Be honest. Be honest with the pastor.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

That is not new. I wish I had a computer so I could do you like you doing me?

[Lauren]

Listen, the only reason why I knew is because two. She had two first of all.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And she just thought so one of them fell off and she picked up another.

[Lauren]

No, that's not true.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You gotta tell the truth to the past alone.

[Lauren]

No, that's not. He's framing this completely wrong. Okay. So the only reason why I say it's new is because I think I've had to learn. I've had to learn how to be very different in this stage in my life. Not even relationship, just because of like career and a lot of things. So I took a lot more time with certain things this time around.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

Such as sexual. Give me three things.

[Lauren]

Sexual sex.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

Okay. What'd you do different about it?

[Lauren]

We just. It took some more time before it happened, which is very different for me. We also. We also public like being in public with each other. I took time before I did that.

[DJ Envy]

It's still not all the way.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I ain't seen it all in public all.

[Lauren]

I guess sneaky videos from people still taking our time.

[DJ Envy]

Only because he got pictures.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

So you met with this guy with the past. You've been with this guy one year?

[Lauren]

Yeah, we've been dating for a year.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

Yeah. That's a long time. It is. It's 365 days.

[Lauren]

It's still very new though.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

Have you slept with him within 365 days?

[Lauren]

Yes.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

Okay. You have had sex with this man multiple times?

[Lauren]

Uh huh.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

Look at your smile.

[Lauren]

Can you tell what are you showing him?

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

What is going on here? This is not her.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yes, it is.

[Lauren]

No, it's not. He keeps showing people this video. That's not me.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Boy, you are just lying for. No. You know, God watching you.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

This is not.

[Lauren]

You don't know that person.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Don't.

[DJ Envy]

That was her birthday.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

All right? I'm posting it since this is you.

[Lauren]

I'm tired. That has nothing to do with me nor the situation we're having a conversation about.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

That was your birthday. Is that him?

[Lauren]

No. Like two years ago.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

That's not the same him. That's another him.

[Lauren]

I don't know why he.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

What about the guy you was kissing in the restaurant?

[Lauren]

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[Lauren]

The guy that I was kissing in the restaurant and the guy that just got posted kind of at the Eagles game. That is where we are. That is my man. And that's the only thing we should be talking about.

[DJ Envy]

You keep bringing in fighting for her life right now.

[Lauren]

I don't know why you keep bringing up things that are not important. Good lord.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

What I'm saying is this exactly what you just said. You've slept with this man. You have a smile on your face. You're enjoying that. You have slept with this man multiple times. You should be that enthusiastic about everything else.

[Lauren]

But I'm saying this is the first time that I am like in other situations. There have been things that I've.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

When did you find out about his credit? At what month?

[Lauren]

Probably like within the first month.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

Then when did you sleep with him? You don't want to tell me?

[Lauren]

Okay, well this is not about so how are we.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

No, I'm just, you know, I don't even want to go there. This is not about.

[Lauren]

I think so for me also too this situ.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

I think you asked the question.

[Lauren]

No. And I want to have the conversation. That's how we having it.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

But I think we should just pray now. Let's just get this. No, let's just get this.

[Lauren]

I want to get this because I want to hear what you have to say because one of the things I enjoyed learning was how you and your wife are in your fight. Because one of the things I've Realized with us is we're both in kind of like the trying to figure out our life separate of a relationship. But it just so happens that we're together doing it now. And I thought that it was great how she know. She knew how to support you and because sometimes things can feel like she's my wife.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

You're his girlfriend.

[Lauren]

Yes. But still, even in friendships, it's not a steal.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

Even in friendships, it's a completely different responsibility and a completely different role.

[Lauren]

But take out relationship, like boyfriend, girlfriend, even in friendships. Right. There are times where you feel like you're giving more to a friendship than you're receiving. You talked about vulnerability and vulnerability being a bad thing. That was the first time I've ever heard somebody say that. And the reason why I brought it up is because in situations like this, when things do feel good, you're always wondering, am I allowing certain things to happen because it feels good, or is this really where it's supposed to be? Relationship, friendship, whatever. How do you deal with that thought?

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

I don't want to go to that thought because I want to go back to your first original thought. This is an escape. Let's go back to where we were.

[Lauren]

Go ahead.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

When did you find out about his credit?

[Lauren]

First month. Oh, first month of us being in a relationship. Not the first month of us dating.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

What's the difference?

[Lauren]

Because when we were dating, it was casual stuff. So it was like dinner. It was phone conversations. It wasn't, you know, had y' all.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

Talk about your faith.

[Lauren]

Yes.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

When?

[Lauren]

That was probably like one of our first in person conversations.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

So how long did it take from phone to in person? What you mean you did phone first, then you went into in person?

[Lauren]

We did in person first because this is someone that I already knew. Like, we went to college together for a bit, so we did in person first and then the phone kind of.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

You guys were friends?

[Lauren]

Yeah, we were cool before that.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

Did y' all sleep together when y' all was cool?

[Lauren]

No.

[DJ Envy]

Mm. Mm.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

No desire?

[Lauren]

No. There was desire, but it didn't happen. And that's what I'm saying. I took the desire.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

This is a long conversation.

[State Farm Announcer]

Yeah.

[Lauren]

Like, there was definitely desire.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

Yeah. So you wanted this guy already?

[Lauren]

Mm.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

Did he want you already?

[Lauren]

I don't know if I've ever asked him that. I don't think so.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

What made you. Did he ask you out or did you ask him out?

[Lauren]

We got together as friends. Just, he was like, you know, you're in Jersey, would love to take you out to happy hour, celebrate everything. You got going on. It wasn't even.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

So how did it turn? Who initiated the turn? Me.

[Lauren]

I initiated the turn.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

You are aggressive.

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Especially on that Casamigo. I'm sure she leaving out a lot of shit.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

There's a lot being left out.

[Lauren]

It wasn't even about. No, it wasn't me being aggressive on Casamigos. It was when we sat our first time in person, that happy hour conversation. I was sitting there and I'm like, man, this man is amazing. Like, I would love to get to know more about him. Not just as my friend.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

Now, let me ask you this. When you said that, where were you psychologically, emotionally? Did you know yourself before you made that decision?

[Lauren]

No, I don't think I fully know myself now.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

Okay. How much of yourself do you know? What do you know about yourself? Where are you?

[Lauren]

I know a lot about myself, but I don't think that I'm fully through, like, my fight. Like how you're.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

So you're still fighting 100%.

[Lauren]

I didn't even begin the fight, honestly, probably until this year. Cause I didn't know that it was a fight to be had.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

I just figured that's so powerful because I just told him that. That sometimes when you're in a relationship, this is not your relationship.

[Lauren]

Go ahead. I'm enjoying this.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

I think sometimes when you're in a relationship, when you get healed, when you actually find you, it opens up your eyes so much that you start looking at all of your choices and all of your decisions, and you can see the unhealthy picks, the unhealthy partners, the unhealthy conversations now. And it's hard to speak to sick people. And I'm not pointing at anybody specific. It's hard to have a conversation with sick people because you yourself didn't know you were sick. And now that you realize that, hey, I'm better, but I created this sickness, or I played a part in the sickness, that becomes difficult. Which is what I know we probably talk about with the holidays. When you're going into the holidays, should I be trying to discover myself right now? And that's twofold. It's juxtaposition. If you have a safe place, yes. If it's not safe, no. Because those conversations will turn into wars, and it'll create a horrible holiday experience. But if you have a safe place and there is enough health in the room, mom, uncle, sister, therapist, somewhere, there has to be some safety for you to retreat. And then not necessarily isolation, but some alone time for you to actually process and come out and talk. You can move methodically through it. But if you are healed, you're who and you are connected to someone that is sick, it's going to be a difficult path. How then? My question to you. How do you have a healthy conversation with an unhealthy person.

[Lauren]

Right now? I just be doing it.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

You just be doing it?

[Lauren]

I think a lot of. Yeah. I mean, because I'm thinking about people in my life that I love, that I know they're not. Have. They don't even.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

They're not okay to say, I don't know, Lauren.

[Lauren]

No, I'm. I'm telling the truth. Like, I'm literally every day, I'm engaging with people that I know are not in the best spaces, like, in their fight, you know, But I don't have a choice because these are people I love. Like, it's my mother. It's my. You know, like, so you. You literally just get through it. You set boundaries for. For certain conversations. But I'm literally just doing it some days because I don't have a choice. Like, what do you do in a situation like that?

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

It's very difficult. It's going to be a war, and you have to be prepared. And here's what I'm saying to you. Once you go through your journey, and you're going through your journey right now, I've gone through mine now. I'm evolving. All right? Because like you said, you don't just get there and stop. You're not the same man you were at 35 or 45, 55. You're going to change. You're going to evolve. But coming into self, coming into knowledge of self, knowing who I am, knowing that I know why I get upset about certain things. I know why certain things trigger me. I know when I need to remove myself. I know when I need to go in stronger because I'm aware of me now. Because I'm aware of me, it helps. I help myself in the unhealthy conversation. I don't make it more unhealthy. I don't make it more toxic. Because at one point, I was. I would keep pushing and keep pushing and keep pushing because I'm trying to get you to understand. Understand what I'm saying. But what I realized, you're never going to understand. You don't have the capacity. So what I've learned now is that now that I fought to find me, there's no need for me to fight you because you don't know you. I need to retreat and let you be you and come back on another time to have a conversation.

[Lauren]

Do you do that differently in different situations? Because, like, for instance, with my dad, I do that all the time, but with other people, I go all the way. Like, that's not happening. Like, so do you feel like you're more in your fight you further along with certain people in certain situations? Okay, so that's different.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

Yeah, because they're different people, different relationships, different levels of covenant. Yeah, definitely. Definitely.

[DJ Envy]

I will say this, though. Y' all having that conversation depressed the ish out of me. Why? I'm gonna tell you why.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

It's depressing me, too.

[DJ Envy]

I'm gonna tell you why. I met my wife at 16. I didn't care about credit. I didn't care about how much money she had. I didn't care about religion at the time. I just was close to somebody that was my friend and that we were starting a relationship, and we did it all together, right now, later on, we did everything together. We built our credit together, we built our businesses together. We built religion together. Right? But I couldn't imagine dating somebody and all that in my mind, you gotta think credit, you gotta think religion. You gotta think, you know, what does he think about kids and this, that and the other, where all I want to do is see if I'm compatible.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

You were 16, though.

[Lauren]

You were young, and there's a lot left on the line at that age. But also, too, you want to see.

[DJ Envy]

Somebody that you love, and then you grow into 16. He's a Baptist. Y' all could figure it out later.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Doctor, tell me, like, me and my wife have been together since teenagers, you know, Even though we may not have been discussing those things, we were discussing our. Some. Some sort of interest even at that age.

[Lauren]

It's just not as heavy.

[DJ Envy]

They're talking about big things like credit.

[Lauren]

And 33, and you don't come out at 33. Start building a friendship first. So first I was just like, let me see if I just like him as a person.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You felt like this. But I knew I was gonna marry that woman when I was a teenager.

[DJ Envy]

Absolutely.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Like, from the moment I came there, I knew.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

I said, I didn't have all that.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah, I knew that immediately. My first letter was my wife.

[Lauren]

She. Did your wife know?

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

No.

[Lauren]

So neither one of you guys knew?

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

No, we were older, too. You see what I'm saying? So 16. I was in my 30s, so it was nothing like that. And I had already had a divorce. She had had terrible relationships, about to be married. Marriage crashed out. So she was in a different place. Our situation was like this, yo, we gonna date for about a few months. If this thing ain't working, let's just depart. She said, I think you're a great speaker. I like your church. If it don't work, I want to keep going to your church. I'm like, okay, cool. So when we met, we met at some of the most craziest places, like the Waffle House. I would back in at the Waffle House. She would pull in at the Waffle House. So I'm on the driver's side, she's on her driver's side. And we'd be talking. If we went to eat, she'd pay for her bill. I paid for my bill. I don't owe you nothing. You don't owe me nothing.

[DJ Envy]

We were grown.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

We were grown people. And then when we got into the relationship and we were like, hey, really like you? Well, at that time, a grown man. I'm like, okay, look, I gotta make sure everything is tight because this woman already has a house. So I'm not gonna take her to an apartment. She owns her home, she has a car, she has a great job. I had a great job. So I needed to make sure that I moved her up and not moved her across.

[Lauren]

There's nothing wrong with that. But how did that stifle you guys relationship?

[DJ Envy]

But if your guy had credit, it never stifled it.

[Lauren]

It didn't. Because I feel like if your guy.

[DJ Envy]

Had bad credit, you wouldn't date him.

[Lauren]

No.

[DJ Envy]

You wouldn't say, let me help you accredit. Because maybe that's the part of his life he just did not know yet.

[Lauren]

But you have to be. I think me establishing I like him as a person.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

The like him is big.

[Lauren]

I don't care. We were sleeping on the floor. We gonna figure it out. But I had to be know that for sure. And then after that I'm like, okay, now let's do all the dancing up things. What's your credit? Like? What you. How are you as a father? Like all those type of things.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

The likability part is a fact. If I don't like you dumb, we ain't going nowhere, you know, so we gotta like each other. I get you on that. Yeah, but I. But I just wanted to make sure you start evolving into those other pieces. Cause your face lit up about the sex, but it didn't light up about nothing else.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Damn.

[Lauren]

I think it was just kind of like too. Is you a pastor?

[DJ Envy]

Don't make an excuse.

[Lauren]

No, it's a Little weird. It's a little weird talking to you. No, it's weird talking to you about sex or even him showing you that video. It's like you're a pastor.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

What? So am I not a pastor? Because I'm having the conversation.

[Lauren]

No, you still are a pastor. But there is. I'm not the first person that has reacted like it's a little weird talking about certain things because you're a pastor.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

You brought it up. I did bring it up.

[Lauren]

Yeah. But then when the reality hit, it's like, this is a pastor.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Let me ask the pastor a question. Pastor.

[DJ Envy]

Usually.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

Lord have mercy.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Usually somebody who is lost doesn't know that they're lost. So how do you identify being in that space?

[DJ Envy]

Oh, boy.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

Lost in what regard?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Just in life, period. Still figuring it out. Fighting to find itself.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

I don't think you. I don't think it's. You're supposed to identify if they're lost. We're talking about. You're talking about being in a relationship with somebody you love or you're talking about. This is your friend. What's the context? A friend.

[Lauren]

He trying to talk to me.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

What you mean?

[Lauren]

No, your eyes keep lighting up over there about everything else. But when he asks you directly who you talking about?

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

It cannot be generic. If it's a friend, you know, somebody.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Who I look at is a niece on one.

[Lauren]

You think I'm lost in life. I don't think I'm lost in life. I think that there are certain things that I am figuring out, but I.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Think that it's easy to get lost in the life that you are trying to live.

[Lauren]

100%, yes.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

Are you lost?

[Lauren]

That's a very loaded. Like, in what part of this life.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I'm trying to live to her, and she's learning how to do a lot of different things.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

I think that's normal.

[Lauren]

Yeah. And I'm very vocal about when I'm confused, when I do feel lost or.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

No, you're not.

[Lauren]

Actually, I am. I do ask a lot of questions.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

But you try to tell the pastor what he want, you'll try to tell the pastor what you want.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

Just call me Joel.

[Lauren]

That happens, too. But I think that that is me. When I've learned from talking to you, most of the time it's you. When I am in those situations, what I've learned from it is. I think it's because I've never had to engage with. Because my dad and me are like, we. We talk here and there, but it's not like a consistent thing. So I've never had to engage it with a man in a way where, like, I take. I take things in and I listen and I trust it. It's always been, I hear you, but, like, yeah, whatever.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

Yeah, you need to find that out. You need to find out why.

[Lauren]

And those are. See, and that's what I'm saying. Everything is evolving and changing at this level of life.

[DJ Envy]

It's past traumas, too, though. Past traumas that she's dealt with, which I understand why she keeps one eye open. Sure. I think anybody would. They want to protect their heart, and I think that's her.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That's the most honest thing she said.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

I think that's what this is about, because that's what this is about. You intentionally, because you use the word intention, intentionally going into those dark places and unearthing all of that to actually deal with it so you can go forward. Okay. You got to get to the point where you can have those conversations without having to do this. Okay. Understanding that there is a possibility that you're going to get hurt, and there's nothing you can do about it. So why keep crippling yourself? Just live. He could hurt me today. I could hurt him today. I could hurt my spouse today, my wife today. There's nothing she can do about it. Nothing. She wouldn't see it coming, or she may see it coming, but there's still nothing she could do about it. So live. And the way to live is to do this surgery. Go into. You go into the fight, and you got to dig underneath all of that success, because that's where it is, and that's what makes it hard. When you have actually been successful, you're successful at what you do. People know there's a demand for what you do. Forget what everybody's success definition is, there's a demand for you, and you get paid to do what you do very, very well. And when you have to push all that aside and dig down into stuff that's old, it'll make you tremble. It'll make you want to quit.

[DJ Envy]

I love these conversations.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

It'll make you need it. It'll make you want to stop. But that's the point. You need to get it now, because you're going to go higher than this.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That's right.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

That's right. At some point, you're going to blow past them and you have your own show. Yes, Right. But you gotta. You have to do the work now. You don't want to do it, then do it now. Dig. Now struggle. Now cry. Now scream. Now holler. Now you're going to have answers for other women and other men, I promise you. But you got to do the work.

[DJ Envy]

And she's evolved.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I don't sound that elephant.

[Lauren]

No self accountability. But I've been hearing you, though. I hear you. That's the biggest thing is I do hear you. I just don't always just like to hear it from you.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

Why?

[Lauren]

I think the way he goes about it, sometimes it's not the best.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

Tell me how he goes about it.

[Lauren]

It's very loud. It's very.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

Have you ever told him that?

[Lauren]

Yes.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

And what does he say? He doesn't care.

[Lauren]

No, he cares. We've had conversations with kids.

[DJ Envy]

He'll be like, lauren, I love your bald spot, ass head. Like, he'll say something like that.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That's not true.

[DJ Envy]

I'm gonna try to help you out. Like, what are some things he would say?

[Lauren]

No, like, we've had conversations. Cause I look at them as like mentors. And a lot of times I feel like in a space that I'm in, because I don't have anybody I can directly point to that's doing exactly what I'm doing. I ask them questions or I just watch what they do or how they talk or whatever. So when they sell. When they say things to me, I. What they say to me matters. So if he says something and he may not understand how I took how he said it, he's like, oh, you're emotional. It's not. Maybe it is emotion, but I think it's emotion because I value. There's value. Yeah. What you're taking your time to say, even if you don't know you're taking your time to. I value that. So I think sometimes the disconnect is how he sees my. He thinks I'm just like. And I'm not always. Sometimes it's like, no, I'm really listening. I'm taking in what you saying. You just.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

So how often do you all have the conversation of how you're actually taking it in?

[Lauren]

We had it yesterday.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yesterday?

[Lauren]

Yeah.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

How did it go?

[Lauren]

I feel like it went forever for.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Her just to come around to the point that she took it wrong.

[DJ Envy]

So I will say this. He's very hard boss.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

Right.

[DJ Envy]

He's very hard on people that he loves. It's just who person. I've known him for 15, 20 years. That's who he is as a person. Right. If he doesn't love you, he's not gonna be on you at all. He gonna let you slip. He gonna let you Fall. He gonna let you trip. That's the way he talks. No gloves on. It is what it is. Me, I'm more. I'm gonna have soft gloves on you, right. Because I want you to understand what I'm saying.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

Got it.

[DJ Envy]

And it's two different styles of the way we communicate. That's just who he is.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

And so how you. How are you navigating, knowing, or did you already know or not know?

[Lauren]

I've learned it. I kind of feel like meeting him. I kind of saw behind, like, when I started thinking about what his intention was behind things, and I had to do that because when you're on a public platform like this, people don't know our internal, like, vibes, Right? They only see what they see. So when I'm out in the world and people are talking to me about them because I know their intentions, there's not really much you can tell me about them. Right. So that helped me kind of understand it. But I think, if I'm being honest, I'm just not used to receiving that. So a lot of times my instinct is, like, what? Or I'm not trying to hear that, or, yeah, but you need to correct the way you're talking. And sometimes it's like, yeah, but I just want you to hear what I'm saying also, like, there. I feel like there should be accountability on both sides, because even if what you're saying is correct, sometimes the way that it's said, it's not emotion. It's just, what's your end goal? If your end goal is to direct and make sure that I'm not slipping, so I don't. I'll turn off. Like, I'm just like, okay, well, whatever. I don't care. We don't got to do it. And I don't want to get. I don't want to be in that space. So for myself, the accountability I'm taking is like, yesterday, at the end of it, I was like, you know what I did? Even if it was emotion, I did say, you know what? I'm turning everything off. I don't care. We'll just get through the rest of the day. I don't want to show up like that, because my life and career depend on me not showing up like that. But also, it felt good to be able to be like, yeah, but you see what you just said here and how you said it? That's why I took it this way. And maybe you should think about that.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I didn't even say nothing. That's what made it even.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

Crazier to you.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

No, no. I didn't say it was an action.

[Lauren]

I'm so happy we had it on video because any other time to you.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

You didn't because it's just you. But to her body language, tone, temperament.

[Lauren]

Presence, tone and body language, everything speaking.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I was talking to Twitch, right? So it was a bunch of people. So I'm already in mid conversation. She comes in to tell me something. I answered the question. Then I go, oh. I go, is this what you want to talk about? And then Enby responded to her and was like, oh, you want to talk about? And then she walked out and told me.

[Lauren]

And I was like, whatever, we ain't gonna do it. I'm not fighting. I'm choosing my fight, and I ain't doing this one today.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And she was like. Cause you acted like you didn't want to do it. Like, what did I do?

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

Were you already upset?

[Lauren]

No.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

So this whole situation turned. It triggered you.

[Lauren]

Yeah. It was very. Yes. Instant.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

So my question to you is, what in that trigger is in you? Because that's normal for you.

[Lauren]

I think it was the dismissiveness.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

Okay.

[Lauren]

That it was the we just said, even though it was very small. It was just like, I'm not good at, like, what was it?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I didn't dismiss it.

[Lauren]

You know what it is?

[DJ Envy]

We probably won't even add this part. It's the acceptance. Right. And I'm gonna tell you why.

[Lauren]

Okay, I can agree with that.

[DJ Envy]

And I'm gonna tell you why. I told her. She's amazing at what she does. Right? You come with your chest out and you do your job.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

Yeah.

[DJ Envy]

You do what you know is right. Now, mind you, there's some things we'll miss. I said, but you do what you know is right. That's why you're here.

[Lauren]

Right?

[DJ Envy]

I play my mix. I play the songs in my mix because I'm the DJ now. There's times where Charlamagne be like, yo, it's so and so's birthday. Did you do the mix? Okay, cool. Yo, did you hear that song? Yes. Cause you're always open to hear things. Same thing with Charlamagne's donkey. He picks that donkey. But if there's somebody that comes in and be like, yo, you should check this out. He's not gonna be like, nah, I ain't come up with that idea. It's a community.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

Yeah.

[DJ Envy]

Sometimes I feel like she's worried about, are they gonna like these stories? Is this cool to do? Are we okay?

[Lauren]

Yes.

[DJ Envy]

And what did I tell you yesterday?

[Lauren]

Don't worry about that. And it's so crazy because.

[DJ Envy]

Do what you gotta do. That's why you're here.

[Lauren]

In the beginning, I didn't even like. I was just like, okay, I know who will like and who won't like, and it doesn't matter. But now I think I'm so invested into. And I don't know what the thing is, but I'm so invested into, like, this thing that I'm trying to make sure. Yes, yes, yes. Like, in the balance of it be driving me crazy sometimes. I'm like, do I not know what I'm doing?

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

No, I know what I'm doing with my mentor, my pastor, when I move to speak there for him. And he says, hey, you up tonight? It was the most scariest thing ever. Okay? So it's 20,000 people watching. And he watched. I ain't even worried about the 20,000. I'm worried about the one. Him. He's sitting at home doing this. And when I got done, I looked at the phone. He says, what are you doing? I said, I'm packing my thing. Come to my house now. When I got there, he says, what was you thinking? I said. I said, you're gonna fire me? I got scared immediately. He said, no, I ain't going to fire you. He said, why do you always think I'm going to fire you? Because I'm talking to you, trying to figure out what's going on with you. I'm trying to help you. I've never had anybody of his status, his caliber, even invest in me like that. And I didn't know what. It even looked like. He was the best. At one point, I was trying to make sure that he was pleased more than I was, that God was pleased. Okay? And hear me. I know people are going to hear what I said and try to throw it anyway. I love God, but God gave me this amazing teacher. So I'm taking notes, trying to. I understand exactly where you are. I don't want to slip. I want this dude to still want me to be here. And at some point, he said, listen, if I didn't think you were good, you wouldn't be here. So quit worrying about that. Be you. Yeah. You got to get better. Yeah. You got to study. Yeah. Take notes. But throw everything at the glass door. Everything. Don't. Just halfway through it. Throw everything. And that's what I'm here to tell you. Throw everything at the glass door. Don't worry about if they like it or not. They want you here, bring you to The A game. Bring you to the game. Bring your A game to the game. That's who you are. They cannot be who they are without you. And you're gonna have to fight to do that, period. Not them.

[DJ Envy]

Find yourself Joel Tubman, ladies and gentlemen.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And I just want to wrap the show. I said that to you verbatim. The fight to find yourself literally said if you weren't good girls.

[Lauren]

Chill out, girls.

[DJ Envy]

Letting it know to find yourself is out right now. Make sure you go get.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Oh, I do got one more question. Just one more. Oh, boy, that was a perfect. I was ready to do.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

I was. I was gonna clip that clothes and put it up. You gotta do it again.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Did you write this book for the person you used to be or the person you're becoming?

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

That's a great question. Both. I wrote it for both. The person I used to be needs to see it and the person that I am needs to see it. Because there are stories in there that keep me grounded, that says, hey, it ain't always been the way it is. God is blessing you. And it is because all of these stories, what helped propel you to get you where you are. Keep me grounded.

[DJ Envy]

Now close us on a prayer. That's how we gonna end it.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

Father, we thank you for this amazing opportunity to be with my brothers and my sister. We ask that you bless her as she continues to fight to find herself and move in this industry, that she is more than enough and she's capable of taking it to the next dimension. We thank you for both of our brothers who have been staples in this industry for a long time, continue to allow their minds to evolve. Bless their families, bless their children. Everyone is connected to them, God, as they continue to soar in their fields. Father, we thank you for the day. We thank you for another opportunity to praise your name. We ask that you seal it. We thank you for your glory and your divine grace in Jesus name. Amen.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Amen.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

Thank y', all, man. You got to do it one more time, man, so I can tell you one more time.

[DJ Envy]

It's the Breakfast Club. Good morning.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Every day I wake up.

[DJ Envy]

Wake your ass up.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

The Breakfast Club show y' all done.

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[Dr. Joe Barnett]

All.

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[Charlamagne Tha God]

Is there Ah, greetings from my bath festive friends. The holidays are overwhelming, but I'm tackling.

[Dr. Joe Barnett]

This season with PayPal and making the.

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[Dr. Joe Barnett]

See paypal.com promoter points can be redeemed for cash and more. Paying for subject to terms and approval.

[DJ Envy]

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