INTERVIEW: Dr. Rheeda Walker On 'Unapologetic Guide To Black Mental Health' Anniversary, Faith, Therapy + More

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Breakfast Club - Interview with Dr. Rheeda Walker on 'Unapologetic Guide To Black Mental Health' Anniversary, Faith, Therapy & More

Release Date: June 2, 2025

Introduction

In this compelling episode of The Breakfast Club, hosted by DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, and Charlamagne tha God, iHeartPodcasts welcomes Dr. Rheeda Walker, the esteemed author of The Unapologetic Guide to Black Mental Health. Celebrating the fifth anniversary of her influential book, Dr. Walker delves deep into the nuances of Black mental health, the intersection of faith and therapy, and the ongoing battle against stigmas within the community.

I. Celebrating the Fifth Anniversary

Dr. Walker opens the discussion by reflecting on the profound impact her book has had over the past five years. Charlamagne tha God shares his astonishment at the book's reception, stating, "I never would have expected that the book would have had the impact that it's had... it's been a blessing." ([02:50])

II. The Book's Broad Reach and Impact

While The Unapologetic Guide to Black Mental Health is tailored specifically for the Black community, Dr. Walker reveals that its insights have resonated across diverse populations. "People from many different communities have said that the book has helped them," she notes, highlighting the universal aspects of mental health challenges. ([05:04])

III. The Necessity of a Focused Approach

Angela Yee probes the importance of the book's unapologetic focus on Black mental health. Dr. Walker emphasizes, "Black people have a very specific and unique way of just living life... dealing with racism, dealing with microaggressions," underscoring the need for resources that address these unique experiences. ([04:13])

IV. Addressing Stigmas and Misconceptions About Therapy

A significant portion of the conversation centers on the pervasive myths surrounding therapy in the Black community. Charlamagne tha God confronts the stereotype that therapy is exclusively "white people shit." He explains his approach: "I talk to them about things in their language... wondering what their depression looks like for them." ([05:25], [14:14])

V. Suicide and Mental Health Crisis

The discussion takes a poignant turn as Charlamagne addresses the sensitive topic of suicide. He shares his initial reservations about starting his book with this subject but recognizes its critical importance: "That suicide death rates were increasing for Black children age 5 to 11... we need to normalize these conversations." ([07:05], [08:17], [09:35])

VI. Integrating Faith with Therapy

Dr. Walker and Charlamagne explore the harmonious integration of faith and mental health treatment. Dr. Walker advocates for therapists who can "integrate your faith in with the therapy," ensuring that spiritual beliefs are acknowledged and respected within therapeutic settings. ([10:56], [11:48])

VII. The Role of Self-Diagnosis and Awareness

The conversation touches on the rise of self-diagnosis, especially among younger generations. Charlamagne cautions against stopping at self-identification, urging individuals to seek professional help: "If you're sad for two weeks or more, then you could be depressed. Go see a professional." ([12:30], [14:37])

VIII. Confidentiality and Ethical Boundaries in Therapy

DJ Envy raises concerns about therapist confidentiality, especially in cases involving crimes or personal harm. Charlamagne clarifies the boundaries, explaining that while therapists maintain confidentiality, there are exceptions, such as imminent danger to oneself or others: "If there's a danger of abuse... that information might have to be disclosed." ([16:11], [17:00])

IX. Coping Mechanisms and Mental Health Strategies

Dr. Walker shares practical techniques for managing anxiety and improving sleep, emphasizing the importance of cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT). She recommends strategies like progressive muscle relaxation and keeping a notepad to jot down racing thoughts before bedtime: "Write down everything that comes to mind to release it, because otherwise you're gonna ruminate about it." ([25:08], [33:26])

X. Introducing Psychological Fortitude

One of the standout concepts discussed is "psychological fortitude" (PF), introduced by Charlamagne tha God. PF serves as a personalized metric to assess one's mental capacity to handle daily responsibilities and stresses. "It's a 0 to 10 rating of a few different things... What's your PF right now?" he asks, encouraging listeners to regularly evaluate their mental well-being. ([35:27], [37:03])

XI. Vision for the Future of Black Mental Health

Looking ahead, Dr. Walker envisions a future where conversations about mental health are normalized within the Black community. She hopes that, within five years, stronger communities will actively support individuals in need, fostering environments where asking about someone's PF becomes a routine check-in: "We need to normalize these conversations. Get folks the help that they need so that everyone can contribute to a better functioning society." ([38:50])

XII. Conclusion and Call to Action

As the interview wraps up, Dr. Walker passionately urges listeners to embrace mental health resources and support one another. Charlamagne tha God and DJ Envy reinforce the importance of the book, encouraging everyone to acquire their copy and spread its message. "It's the book that we all needed... lay it down quite flat," Dr. Walker asserts, emphasizing the book's role as a vital tool for the community. ([40:11])

Notable Quotes

• Charlamagne tha God ([05:25]): "God bless you, and then I talk to them about things that in their language."

• Dr. Rita Walker ([07:05]): "I wanna just ease folks into that conversation, maybe at the end of the book, rather than starting there."

• Charlamagne tha God ([10:56]): "You can have God and therapy. Because if I break my arm right now, you might pray for me, but you still gonna send me to a doctor."

• Charlamagne tha God ([35:27]): "Psychological Fortitude is the 0 to 10 rating of a few different things. It's basically your capacity to function."

• Dr. Rita Walker ([38:50]): "We need to normalize these conversations. Get folks the help that they need so that everyone can contribute to a better functioning society."

Final Thoughts

This episode of The Breakfast Club sheds invaluable light on Black mental health, breaking down barriers and challenging longstanding stigmas. Dr. Rheeda Walker's insights and strategies provide listeners with both understanding and practical tools to navigate their mental well-being. As the conversation underscores, fostering open dialogues and supporting one another are pivotal steps toward a healthier, more resilient community.

Transcript

[Charlamagne tha God]

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[Angela Yee]

So good.

[Dr. Rita Walker]

Your bill, ladies.

[Charlamagne tha God]

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[Angela Yee]

Shoot.

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[Dr. Rita Walker]

Early in the morning, the Breakfast Club.

[DJ Envy]

Morning, everybody. It's DJ Envy. Just hilarious. Charlamagne the guy we are the Breakfast Club. We got a special guest in the building.

[Dr. Rita Walker]

Yes, Indeed we have.

[DJ Envy]

Dr. Rita Walker. Welcome back.

[Angela Yee]

Good morning. Thank you.

[Charlamagne tha God]

It's great to be here with you all.

[Dr. Rita Walker]

Great to have you. Dr. Rita Walker is the author of one of my favorite books ever, the Unapologetic Guide to Black Mental Health. I recommend it to everybody. And you are celebrating the fifth anniversary of the release of the Unapologetic Guide to Black Mental Health. Jesus Christ.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Time.

[Dr. Rita Walker]

Don't be playing, boy.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Yeah, I mean, five years. God is good. And I never would have expected that the book would have had the impact that it's had. You know, meeting you, you know, being able to talk to you. All the folks who have, you know, come to me and said the book has changed their life, you know, that they buy the book for their family members and for friends, they have book club meetings. It's just, you know, it's been a blessing.

[Dr. Rita Walker]

I remember when I read it, Debbie Brown, our good sister Debbie Brown, she gave me the manuscript and I read it on vacation. And I remember reading it and saying to myself, where has this book been all of our lives?

[Charlamagne tha God]

Well, it's been, you know, it's been a process. So I earned my PhD more than 20 years ago. And, you know, working on trying to understand specifically for black people, you know, our experiences and trying to integrate that into the larger landscape of mental health that you all know, has exploded. You know, trying to merge what I know as a black woman, and I'm a first generation college student, my parents didn't go to college. And merging my reality with what I was learning and the research that I was engaged in and trying to train PhD clinical psychology students, you know, that's. It took time. So it took a little time for me to get here, but I'm here.

[Angela Yee]

Yeah, I noticed that it's not just about mental health. It's specifically for black mental health. Right. Like, why is it. So why is it important to be unapologetic about who this book is for?

[Charlamagne tha God]

I'm so glad that you asked that because as you all know, oftentimes, you know, black people get lumped in with my minorities. One of the labels that we use in academia is bipoc, so black. And we include folks with indigenous people of color. But we know that black people have a very specific and unique way of just living life, of doing things. We've learned mental health from the generations before us and in ways that weren't always helpful. You know, we learn not to talk about our feelings and emotions. Like, we learned that, like, what we learned is impacted who we are, while at the same time dealing with racism, dealing with microaggressions. You know, folks saying, you know, pull yourself up by the bootstraps and we don't even have boots. You know, that is a reality for Us and we need to be able to talk about that. And that's part of what makes the book unapologetic, is that I said, yeah, we're not talking about everybody, we just talking about black people.

[Angela Yee]

Yeah.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Now that's not that it hasn't helped other folks. And I've had people from many communities, you know, gay, straight, black, Asian, we've all people from many different communities have said that the book has helped them, which is fine, you know, great, get what you need from the book. But I wrote it for us.

[Dr. Rita Walker]

How do you handle black people who still think therapy is just white people shit?

[Charlamagne tha God]

Well, I say, you know, God bless you, and then I talk to them about things that in their language. And I think that's part of what made the book resonate is talking to folks in ways that make sense to us. And that's one of the reasons it had to be for us because we talk a certain way. And I use that in the book. And so, you know, I ask folks about their worry, I ask folks about problem sleeping. Like in the black community, we have a lot of problems with sleep and don't even. We normalize it. And so I talk about the day to day kinds of things that people experience but have normalized. And then they say, hmm, and then we can start to have a conversation from there. I gotta, you gotta meet folks where they are like. And that's, that's one of. I introduced the idea of psychological fortitude in the book because we say mental health. As you all know, folks start thinking, oh, someone's crazy, they hearing and seeing things that aren't there. Okay, let's just move by that. Let's keep it moving. Let's figure out how I can help people with a different kind of language.

[DJ Envy]

It's been five years. What surprised you the most about the impact of the book?

[Charlamagne tha God]

Oh, my goodness. I think probably the degree to which people who are not black have said that the book has helped them.

[DJ Envy]

Really.

[Charlamagne tha God]

And I think it's because there are some dimensions of mental health that are universal. You know, people worry. You know, people have difficulties with sadness and low moments. And so what I do in the book is to talk about what do you do with that? So given those moments and they, you know, they're transient, like, sometimes it's here, sometimes it's not. If we don't address it, it can escalate. And so I talk about that because we're humans. So it relates to, it relates for a lot of different communities.

[DJ Envy]

And if you could add one chapter Now, Right. It's been five years. If there's something that you missed and you just wanted to add one chapter to discuss, what would that chapter be on?

[Charlamagne tha God]

Oh, my goodness. You know, what I have thought about, I will say the most, is when I talk about suicide. So I start there in the book. I didn't necessarily want to start there, but the publishers wanted to start there because that's my area of research. So that's the research that I have been doing for more than 20 years, is trying to understand risk and resilience related to mental health crisis when someone decides they don't want to live anymore. And so the publisher said, you need to start there. And I was like, oof, I don't think that's a good idea. You know, not for my community. And since then, we've had conversations and they say, you know, okay, yeah, we kind of get it. And so that's one thing I would definitely do, is to ease folks into that conversation, maybe at the end of the book, rather than starting there. So just so you're prepared, I kind of start there. Okay.

[Angela Yee]

Besides, you gotta tag head on.

[DJ Envy]

I wanna ask one thing about suicide before you move on. You know, I was talking to my wife about suicide. Cause you see the suicide rates increase, especially with young kids. People blame it on social media. They blame it on so many different things. Do you feel like a lot of times suicide is based off of people not believing somebody's going through? Like, almost like, I'm gonna do it because I'm gonna show you. Do you see that a lot?

[Charlamagne tha God]

I don't. What I do see, though, is people who are in crisis and don't have the language to communicate one or they don't think people will believe them. You know, so people are struggling, and there are a lot of folks who are struggling, you know, especially. Especially now and increasingly. And they don't have the wherewithal to manage what they're going through or to be able to talk to folks who are not going to judge them. Because, y' all know, there's a lot of judginess in our society, unfortunately. And the sad thing about that judginess is that it does keep people from getting help. But the reality is, and you know, and I talk about it throughout the book, that if we had a more informed society. And so this was my thinking. I wrote the book because the suicide death rates were increasing for Black children age 5 to 11. It was decreasing at the same time for their white counterparts. And so in my mind, because I know when people are in crisis, it's hard to get help. And so they need the folks around them to be able to say, hey, you know, you don't quite seem like yourself, or, oh, I. I know you've been going through some things recently. I just want to check in on a 0 to 10 rating, you know, where. Where are you? And so in my mind, if we have a community around the struggling person, then that's going to help them so much more than asking them to reach out for help when they're already in crisis.

[Dr. Rita Walker]

I'm glad you brought up.

[Angela Yee]

I'm sorry you called out beliefs like just pray about it, right, as being part of the reason that black people don't get formal help. What backlash did you face from that?

[Charlamagne tha God]

You know, it's funny because I did have a couple ordained ministers to read that chapter before it went into the book, and one of them thanked me and the other one said, Dr. Walker, we just going to have to agree to disagree. And that was fine because I needed to be unapologetic in calling out some of the things that we do in the community that are problematic, like saying pray about it. You know, when someone is really very depressed, and if you say that to them and then they start to think, well, maybe it's something wrong with me and my relationship with God because I have been praying, like, why would you think I haven't prayed? And so telling someone to pray about it, well, tell them what to pray for. Ask them to, or advise them to pray for a mental health professional who's going to help them. You know, ask them to pray for someone who's going to give them a good, strong reference or something that they can do or hold onto. But to say pray about it in good luck, that's not helping people. And it saddens me and it's almost heartbreaking when I still hear that, you know, in 2025. And I hate hearing it.

[Dr. Rita Walker]

I'm sorry, I hate how people think it got to be an either or. Like, you can have God and therapy. Because if I break my arm right now, you. You might pray for me, but you still gonna send me to a doctor?

[Charlamagne tha God]

Yes, absolutely. And there's someone who's made a T shirt that said, you know, that I pray. I pray and go to therapy.

[Dr. Rita Walker]

Yeah, I pray and go to therapy.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Like, please do. And even, even better, pray for a therapist who has some spiritual mindedness that they can help you to integrate your faith in with the therapy. And that's something that I trained PhD psychology students to Be able to do, you know, you gotta first ask someone because not everyone is a believer, but ask them, you know, are you a person of faith? What does that mean to you to be a person of faith? Let's work together in order to be able to help you using one of your resources. Because yes, having faith is a resource and having faith has gotten black folks through a lot when there was nothing else. And I talk about that. So one of my newest books, you know, no Racial Elephants in the Therapy Room, I talked to specifically to therapists to be able to work with their clients and including their faith.

[Dr. Rita Walker]

I think the Potter's House has done a fantastic job of combining the two. You know, Bishop T.D. jakes, Sarah Jakes, Roberts Torre, they always talk about God, but then also you got to bring in the mental health professionals when there's actual mental health crisis is going on.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Yes, because a lot of folks don't understand, you know, the psychological and the psychiatric part of it. They, you know, we can't expect for pastors and ministers to do that. That's not, that's not their training. For some of them it is, but for most it's not.

[Dr. Rita Walker]

You were talking about the language earlier and that's a conversation we always have, you know, here on the show about how everybody has learned a lot of the language. Right. Whether it's, you know, depression, you know, anxiety. Do you think that people are self diagnosing too much or is that just how awareness starts?

[Charlamagne tha God]

I think it's good for awareness because some of the feedback that I've gotten about the book is folks saying they didn't know what was going on with them. And so they appreciate having language to be able to communicate what's going on for them. So that's definitely a good thing. But I do think that there is a lot of self diagnosis and it ends there. So if your diagnosis is I have higher than what is helpful level of anxiety, go see a professional. If it is my depression keeps me from being able to cook meals for my family, I don't know what to do. Go see a professional who can help diagnose and give a roadmap for what needs to happen next. But yeah, the TikTok therapy is kind of concerning the kids is what scares.

[DJ Envy]

Me because the kiddos say I'm depressed and then if you ask the kid, well, what does depressed mean? I don't know.

[Angela Yee]

He can't even tell you.

[DJ Envy]

I don't know. I'm just upset I failed the test and I'm depressed. No, you're not depressed. You know what I mean? But that's my only fear. I wanted to ask. We had.

[Dr. Rita Walker]

I'll stay on that for a second. Isn't that how we. Isn't that a thing, though? Cause, like, when we were young, we knew we were feeling something, we just didn't know what it was. We didn't even have the language to say, I'm depressed.

[DJ Envy]

But you could be sad. Depressed is different than just being sad. Like, it's different.

[Dr. Rita Walker]

But doesn't certain. Can't sadness lead to depression in a lot of cases?

[Angela Yee]

Well, constant sadness, right?

[Charlamagne tha God]

Yes. So if you're sad for several weeks.

[Dr. Rita Walker]

That's why I turned to Dr. Peter Walker.

[Angela Yee]

Yeah.

[Charlamagne tha God]

If you're sad for two weeks or more, then you could be depressed. I mean, there's certainly levels to depression, and that's why it's helpful to go to a licensed, trained professional to be able to disentangle what might be happening. So, yeah, if you failed a test, I want you to be sad. I'm sad for the day.

[DJ Envy]

I'm sad for a couple hours. But that doesn't mean depressed because tomorrow you're back outside playing soccer.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Exactly, exactly.

[DJ Envy]

But those words are very dangerous. Even anxiety. Like, when I hear the kids say it, I'm like, I just realized what anxiety was a couple of years ago. How? You know what it is.

[Charlamagne tha God]

They're smart. But, you know, so for those of us who are, you know, who are older, who can talk to young people, we can just ask, what does that mean for you?

[Angela Yee]

Yes.

[Charlamagne tha God]

What does that look like for you? Because even as a professional, if I'm seeing someone or a client for the first time, I'm asking them, because they come in, they watch TikTok. You know, they come in and they're saying, I'm depressed. And I still need to know, what does your depression look like? Because your depression might be, you know, not being. Not wanting to eat. Maybe you feel really very sad and you don't want to be around people, but your depression might be like you're doing too much, you know, because you're trying to compensate for the depression. And your depression might look like you're overeating and everyone is experiencing depression. And so we have to be able to ask, not just for our clients, but for everyday people who. What does that look like for you? Because it also gives us a point of intervention, you know, so if you're feeling more like you need to be isolated from folks, then, okay, maybe I'll let you go be to yourself for a little while and Then I'll check in and say, okay, how are you doing today? We don't even have to talk about the situation that you're going through. I just want you to know I'm here for you. People need to know that someone is going to be there for them and that they're not going to judge them.

[Dr. Rita Walker]

I think whatever. I think basically you're just telling people, don't self diagnose. If you think there's something there, then go seek help from a professional.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Yeah, please.

[Dr. Rita Walker]

Gotcha.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Please.

[DJ Envy]

I wanted to ask too, what are some of the myths that our community still have with therapy? Right. We had an artist, his name is Rob49. You heard of him? What the helly? Okay. Don't worry about it. But he was saying basically that he feels like he needs therapy, but he doesn't necessarily want to go because he can't. He doesn't see himself talking to you.

[Dr. Rita Walker]

Don't trust them.

[DJ Envy]

You know, he doesn't trust them. So what are some of the myths that you still see?

[Charlamagne tha God]

Well, that's certainly one of them. They gonna tell all my business. And that's important. We, you know, you can't have folks, you can't have your business in the street. Like that's something that is unacceptable in our community. And so for that person. And I encounter a lot of those folks who are struggling. You see it, you know, we see it. But if they're not ready, then you can't force them to go and talk to someone. That's one part. And there's so many folks. And that's why we have to be nonjudgmental. Because if we say this is what I see, just want you to know I'm concerned and then back off, then they know who they can go and talk to. Like this person expressed concern. They seem concerned about me. I will go to them. But yes, those big myths that are those people are going to tell all my business. That's one part. The other part is what can they tell me? They're not gonna be able to tell me. They don't even know me. But that's part of the process is getting to know the client. There isn't a single person who would sit in front of me that I would say, I know their life story, I know how to help them. I'm gonna start with questions. I got questions first. And then the other part is something I think that is they're gonna make me someone that I'm not and I need to maintain myself. Like I don't know A professional who has the power to be able to magically make someone different. The goal would be to make them a better functioning person, you know, to take on their responsibilities and do the best that they can, but not to make them a different person.

[DJ Envy]

I do have a question. What is a therapist allowed to talk about? Right. So if I see a murder, if I murder somebody, if I see domestic violence, if I see somebody getting hurt, it always brings me back to the Mendez brothers, right, where they were talking to the therapist, and the therapist used some of their stuff on the court case. So when you see stuff like that and something is going through my mind, I'm like, I ain't gonna tell nobody, because what if they use it later? But then I might have to tell somebody to heal. So what can you guys tell? And what, you know, what is just, you know, patient crimes, Privilege.

[Dr. Rita Walker]

Yes. You gotta go to prison for us, if you kill crimes, you can heal the prison. You can heal in prison.

[DJ Envy]

But I'm sure there's people that have seen crimes, have done crimes, and they're going through things like, I'll just use rod 49 again. He said that he's seen so many things in his past. He's seen death so much in his past, but he might not want to tell because he might not want to get somebody in trouble.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Well, in that example, he can say, I've seen.

[DJ Envy]

Take it out of Rob 49, just in case. Just take it out of here.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Okay? So anyone can say they've seen something without giving, you know, facts or specifics and not expect for the police to come in and haul them off. But what I will say is, so we talk in the first session about confidentiality. Like, confidentiality is part of the bedrock of what we do as licensed professionals. Like, you can't just go out and yap about what people have been sharing or what they've disclosed in therapy. Now, the other thing that we emphasize is if someone says that they could be a harm to themselves or danger to themselves or to someone else, then that information might have to be disclosed in order to be able to protect that person's life or to protect the life of someone else. If there's a danger of abuse of children, elderly, or people who have disabilities or different abilities, then that would have to be disclosed. And to be honest, it varies by state, but that's kind of a minimum threshold to be aware of. Because at the end of the day.

[Unknown]

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[Charlamagne tha God]

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[Unknown]

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[Dr. Rita Walker]

Your bill, ladies.

[Charlamagne tha God]

I got it. No, I got it. Seriously, I insist. I insisted first. Don't be sick. You call me silly. Silly. People with the Wells Fargo Active Cash credit card prefer to pay because they earn unlimited 2% cash back on purchases. Okay. Rock, paper, scissors for it. Rock, paper, scissors.

[Unknown]

Shoot.

No.

[Charlamagne tha God]

The Wells Fargo Active Cash credit card. Visit Wells Fargo.com ActiveCash terms apply. The client has to be able to talk to their therapist because they aren't going to be able to get the healing and the help that they need. And if they can't get some stuff off of their chest. But then once they do that, then there has to be some understanding about what's gonna happen next.

[Dr. Rita Walker]

You ever met somebody so toxic, like, they made your therapist energy say, yeah, I can't help you. Ain't that nice?

[Charlamagne tha God]

So there have been a couple of occasions. And so what I have done for the most part is supervise PhD students in training. And there have been occasions, as an example, where the client was. Right. Racist or the client was doing harm to animals and the therapist was having a really difficult time because of. I mean, that would be hard for. Hopefully anyone and supervisors do approach this work differently. I will say that. And that's one of the reasons you may get different stories and different narratives from different professionals, because folks approach some of the work differently. But for me, you can't have a client who is disrespecting you or who is making you feel nauseous or uncomfortable on the inside and do your work like that's. You can't do that. And so we're human first. Like, you know, therapists, professionals, we are human first. But we still also have a responsibility and obligation to be able to provide the best possible care.

[Dr. Rita Walker]

Absolutely. We got a good friend, a good friend of mine, his name is Humble, the poet. He put out a book called Unanxious 50 Simple Truths to help overthinkers feel less stressed and more calm. And I want to read a. Just a quick little line from it because I Want to know what you think about it. He says life doesn't begin after the obstacles. Life is the obstacles. And we have to unlearn the idea that we need or would even want a life free of chaos, stress and anxiety. We grow from facing challenges and exploring our limits. And the book encourages people to face their stressors and triggers head on with research backed techniques and journal prompts. And we had a discussion here on Breakfast Club because I'm like, if I know something triggers me, I, I feel the, I reserve the right to disconnect from it and set my boundary and not deal with that thing. He feels like you should sit with the thing so the thing doesn't trigger you anymore.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Well, I think you know how I feel about the word should, so I, I avoid it at all cost. And so if there is something in you that says in this moment I need to avoid this thing, I'm going to honor that. But I'm also going to ask you questions about what is happening for you. What are you telling yourself? So I'm a cognitive behavioral therapist and so for me, you know, thoughts connect with behaviors connect with feelings. So it all starts with, yes, something happened, but what is your thought in response to the thing? So is your thought in that moment. I can't deal with this. This is going to hurt me, this is going to harm me. I can't survive this. Because, because it happens, it plays out automatically before folks recognize. And so we have to slow down the process. Okay, tell me the facts, tell me what happened. Tell me what your next thought was. Because most people don't have a sense of what was the next thought. And as a therapist, I have to slow things way down to understand. However, in order for you to feel like I can deal with this, whatever this situation is, or I need to be able to deal with this in order to be successful in life. Then we got to figure out how to allow you to be able to do that. Because yes, I think what I heard him saying was, you know, people need to be able to adapt to new and novel situations and circumstances in order to grow, in order to feel like, okay, I got this, you know, I can be successful in life. But I would, I would pause, I'd hit the pause button. Something happens, person wants to avoid. And I'm like, okay, tell me what just happened. Because again, I'm asking questions, I want to know what's going on for you. Because I don't assume anything about anybody.

[DJ Envy]

See, I was like, when he was there, I was like f that adapt right And I explained to you, if I don't like you because you're a negative person. You're always putting me down, and I just don't feel good energy around you. You don't affect me in any which way. So I can cut you off and say, you know what? I'm not answering your phone anymore. I don't work with you. I don't have to see you. And that should be my right to do that. Because my energy is more important than this friendship. I don't have to sit in it. I don't have to adapt. I don't care if you like me or not, but that's how we should be. I think a lot of times we try to adapt to things, and we try to make things right. And I think a lot of times it hurts more than help.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Yeah. You know, and I respect that 100%. And I can say that there have been maybe the middle ground, because you never know. You just. You never know if someone says something to you or they bring you a certain kind of energy, and maybe you do have some relationship with the person that you're willing to consider and preserve. Why not say to them, you know, when you do X, Y, and Z, when you do that thing right there, when you do this. This is how I feel when that happens. Maybe they didn't know. You know, maybe they thought they were doing a good thing. And I think that's. That allows us to be more in community. Because y' all, we. We need more and more community. I hear what you're saying.

[DJ Envy]

I used to try that. And Thickem's over there. Show me something different. Right? I used to do that, too. Like, you try to adapt to people. You do things that sometimes you don't want to do because you feel like it's the right thing to do. Right? And Short Thickens over there would be like, no, I'm not gonna do it, because that doesn't make me happy. It might make you happy for what you do. I work hard, but I want to protect my piece. And I didn't understand it for a while, right? Cause Short Thickums just wouldn't go. He was like, I'm not doing it. You're not catching me. And I wouldn't get it. But then after a while, I understood, and I'm like, yeah, if this is gonna eff up my piece, if this is not gonna make me happy, I'm at a stage in my life where, you know what effort. And I agree with Short Thickens.

[Dr. Rita Walker]

That's his little pet Nickname for me. You see how men can't even just say my name? He can't even say my name. He gotta give me a little cute nickname just to be vulnerable, just to express himself. You know what I mean? That make you feel better?

[DJ Envy]

Yes.

[Dr. Rita Walker]

Okay.

[Angela Yee]

Thank you, baby. Mental health floor.

[Dr. Rita Walker]

Thank you, my waffle colored Negro. Thank you. It's my beige babe over there.

[Charlamagne tha God]

That's such a beautiful moment.

[Dr. Rita Walker]

Yes.

[Angela Yee]

Dr. Walker.

[Charlamagne tha God]

No.

[Angela Yee]

Look, so this is my question. I don't know if maybe you can help me with this, right?

[Dr. Rita Walker]

You don't even know what the fuck you just said. That's the funny part.

[Angela Yee]

That was a moment for him to get at short thickums. Look, I need. So just last night, right, I could not go to sleep. I could not go to sleep. I have problems sleeping. And I noticed you said at the beginning of the interview, right where. But my thing is I can't turn my mind off. That's the main thing. I don't know how to turn my brain off. I'm thinking about things I could be doing rather than getting sleep. I'm thinking about, damn, I forgot to do this today. It's not enough hours in a day, you know what I mean? Like, I have like a whole schedule in my mind. I never get it done. I feel guilty when I'm just sitting around. Right, but you're not supposed to feel like that, right? Because also with the guy, the guy that they were just referring to, humble poet, he was also saying we're not designed to take in as much that we take in now between like the social media, everything that we're fed, like, even the algorithm. Like, I. Cause I've been thinking about it since he said it and it's like, yo, like first thing I do, I wake up, you know, I will pray, but I don't pray till I get in the car. I check my phone and then like, even when I'm scrolling, there'll be a video, say it'll be comedy, then it'll be another one about church. Then it'll be nothing about something else. About Donald Trump, it'll be something about the gays, you know, they everywhere. And then I scroll up again and it'll be something else. And then, you know, it's like. But I'm not getting a chance to process each and every video, right? So it's so much information that I'm downloading is like, I'm not a robot. I'm supposed to be okay with silence for a while, you know? Then I got a 9 month old, then I'm a wife. And then I got. It's so much. So when I'm laying down, I cannot silence my mind, my thoughts to go to sleep ever. You can't ever silence yourself most of the time. Not. Not ever. Cause weed will help me do that. Just being honest with you. Like, I will hit a blunt and I will laugh and then I'll be out for a minute. But that's really the only thing that helps me get good rest. Weed.

[Charlamagne tha God]

So, you know, and I've heard you talk about your schedule, you know, and, you know, getting up, and I think you said like 4 in the morning, but then you go to bed late at night. And so, you know, so. So there's so many different layers to this. Because, yes, you are doing a lot, but one of the things that I heard you say just now was even when you're kind of sitting, you feel like you're supposed to be doing something. And so you're also telling yourself, I'm supposed to be doing something other than resting.

[Angela Yee]

Yeah.

[Charlamagne tha God]

So that's, that's one thing for you to be mindful of. But then, you know, I think it's. Especially in this day and age, it's easy to wake up or not to fall asleep because your mind is racing. I was telling my husband that this morning I woke up at 3 o' clock and I started to think about this conversation. And then I was thinking, okay, I can say this, I'll say that. Ooh and ooh. And I was like, okay, stop. And I know better, right? I have the tools and the resources. And I was like, quit it. And then that didn't work. And I said, okay, we're gonna do 10 more minutes. And then that didn't work. And I was like, okay, we have to start doing our progressive muscle relaxation in order to be able to calm down. So there are strategies. Progressive muscle relaxation. So for me, it's when I close my eyes and I'm breathing deeply and I tell myself that with each exhalation to release the tension. And I start with my forehead and eyebrows because I'm literally sometimes like this in bed. Who is in bed?

[Angela Yee]

Intense. Like.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Yeah. And so I have to tell myself to release. And I go every body part, ears, nose. And then I allow my body to be able to relax into the moment because I'm literally not just thinking, but I'm feeling it in my body and I have to be able to relax. That the other thing that I recommend, and I put this in the workbook. So I did the unapologetic Guide, and I have the Unapologetic Workbook is giving folks permission to. Before you go to bed, like some people need to keep a notepad and a pen, not the phone, but a notepad and a pen by the bed. So that when all of these thoughts come to mind, you write them down. You write them down before you get into bed. Like, everything that comes to mind. Okay, write it down. And then, okay, try that. If that, you know, you wake up. Okay, write somewhere down. I didn't have a notepad last night. I was like, okay, we just gonna thug this out. But be able to write down all the things that come to your mind to release it, because otherwise you're gonna ruminate about it. And that rumination will absolutely keep you up for hours.

[Angela Yee]

Hours. Yeah.

[Dr. Rita Walker]

I learned a lot of those techniques from you. And it's funny because, you know, my three year old will look at me, say. She'll say, daddy, why you doing like this? And I don't even realize I'm doing it. And then when she tells me that, that's when I do those. I try to do that technique to just relax. But another thing I want you to talk to Jess about, when you go to your website, it says, reclaim your mind. What does that statement mean to you?

[Charlamagne tha God]

We are a very, very powerful people. And this is what I'm hoping that we eventually get to. You know, maybe not in the next five years or even 10 years, but for the next generation, that we get back to knowing who we are as black people, as people of African descent. You know, there's so much negativity associated, folks like, I don't want to be African. You know, some folks now say, I just want to be American. But the brilliance, the collective brilliance in our community is there where. But it is weighed down by anxiety and depression. And for those who don't know, we talk a lot about anxiety and depression because those are the two most commonly diagnosed challenges. When we are weighed down with that. And sometimes it comes from racism, microaggressions. Out of nowhere, you know, you're at your job, just trying to mind your business, working on a project, and somebody says, oh, how'd you get that job? And then you're like, what do you mean by that? And then you're ruminating about that. Like, we just get weighed down by so, so much stuff that when we can get back to a place, when we recognize that we are a brilliant people, that when we can come together, maybe sometimes kneel together if need be, when we can come Together, then we can reclaim who we are and we can use our immense talents and gifts that we have, then we can use them, and then we will live collectively much more fulfilling lives. Like we weren't meant to exist as individuals. Like, that's a Eurocentric way of seeing the world. We are African people. You know, we don't have brother and, you know, we don't have cousin and distant cousin and in laws, you know, we have brother and sister. Like we are family. And so we need to get back to that in order to kind of resist the stuff that's happening out there.

[Dr. Rita Walker]

I got a couple more questions because you talked about psychological fortitude earlier, which is a concept you introduced in the book. And to clear up confusion around mental health, you talk about psychological fortitude. Can you break down what that is just for people and why that's a game changer?

[Charlamagne tha God]

Absolutely. Because, you know, just think on a day to day basis, you ask somebody how they're doing and they say, I'm good, I'm good. You know, they may or may not mean it, but that's the answer that they give. Because oftentimes, you know, we think people don't want to know. Maybe we don't know how well we're doing. But psychological Fortitude is the 0 to 10 rating of a few different things. It's basically your capacity to function. So take care of your work responsibilities and or school responsibilities because this can apply to children and teens. Also, to be able to take care of your family, maybe you got the in laws at the house, you got other cousins, you got folks at the house. To be able to take care of your physical health, you know, health. Health is a serious concern in our community for a number of different reasons. We gotta be able to exercise and eat right and do all the things while not sleeping. You know, you want a bag of chips sometimes when you can't sleep and you're stressed out. I love dessert, you know, and then we also need to be able to withstand the threats like the things that are coming after us while we're still trying to tap into our gifts and talents. You know, in some communities, not using your gifts and talents is a sin. But for us, it's kind of like, you know, you're just going through the motions and hoping for the best. So if I say, you know, I say envy. You know, 0 to 10, you don't have to tell us, but you could if you like, you know, on a 0 to 10, you know, 0 mean you have nothing in the tank and 10 is you cooking? You know, where would you say you are on your capacity to be able to do all those things right now?

[DJ Envy]

Nine.

[Charlamagne tha God]

You're at a nine. And so you're at a great place. And so I might say, okay, you know, envy's good. You know, we're gonna keep it moving. But if he said like 4 or lower, then that says to me as someone in his community that I need to just check in and say, hey, you know, you're at a 4.

[DJ Envy]

But that's today. Tomorrow it could be a 2.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Tomorrow it could be a 2. Right. And if you stayed at a 2 for weeks, then we know it's a problem. But we have our two moments because we're human. And then also for me, for myself, if I ask myself my own rating and if it's too low, then I know that I probably need to be working on a boundary. Like, I definitely don't need to be taking on anything else. I don't care who it is. I don't care what they ask. I cannot take on a single thing if I'm at a 6. For me personally, if I'm at a 6 or lower, I'm not doing anything else. I appreciate you. I can't today, check in with me in three to four or five months and. Or I need to add some sources of joy, you know, maybe reach out to someone that I haven't talked to in a while who makes me smile, who I know isn't going to judge me. And I do have, you know, friends and folks who reach out to me and just say, like, hey, what's your pf? So PF for Psychological fortitude. What's your PF right now? And depending on where I am, you know, I don't think about it for too long because, you know, we can think we want to get the right answer. I don't. I don't know what they're going to say. Like, just give a number. Like, a number is so much more neutral than saying I'm good when I'm not, or risking saying, you know, maybe someone else isn't ready for what all I might be going through. That get of a number. That tells you a lot.

[Dr. Rita Walker]

Absolutely. My last question is, you know, I love the Unapologetic Guide to Black Mental Health. I swear by it. I think it's more than a book. It's a call to action. So what would progress look like in another five years from now if everybody really embrace the call to action that's in this book?

[Charlamagne tha God]

Wow. I love that question. So in another five years, we would have stronger communities where we're able to ask someone, what's your PF right now? And if they say something that is a 4 or 5, then you say, hey, do you have time right now? Let's check in. Let's, let's sit down. Or if they say something like a two or three, then someone in the community says, let me help you find a professional who can work with you, that it helps to build our communities and that we have folks who are suffering less because, you know, there are a lot of people who are suffering needlessly because they don't know whether or not this is mental health related or am I going crazy? Like, we have legitimate language and understanding about what our psychological fortitude is. And I introduce that in part because, and I think I mentioned this because when we hear mental health, we think something else. We need to get beyond that. Like, we really need to get beyond this person is crazy. This person is having a nervous breakdown. Like, that doesn't matter. We need to be able to function. But there are people who for sure have serious challenges and are hearing things that aren't there. And they do need to be able to connect with someone who's going to get them some medication. But I want us to normalize these conversations. Get folks the help that they need so that everyone can contribute to a better functioning society.

[DJ Envy]

All right?

[Dr. Rita Walker]

Absolutely.

[DJ Envy]

Well, Dr. Rita Walker, we appreciate you joining us.

[Angela Yee]

Thank you.

[DJ Envy]

If you haven't got the book, pick up the book now. It's the fifth anniversary of the release of the Unapologetic Guide to Black Mental.

[Dr. Rita Walker]

Health and the workbook, the workbook that goes with it, the Unapologetic Guide to Black Mental Health. I tell everybody it is a must read. It's one of them books that you have to have in your household. This is the book that we all needed. You know, growing up, like, you know, when our parents didn't know how to talk to us about it, our adults around us didn't know how to talk to us about mental health. This book right here lays it down quite flat.

[Angela Yee]

Yeah.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Can I, can I just add just two brief things? One, thank you so much to you because, you know, there have been a lot of people who said they got the book because of you didn't know anything about it. So I am beyond grateful to you, Lenard, for getting the word out about the book. And also, folks can follow me. I'm most active on Instagram dritawalker.com maybe I can get 500 more followers to get me to 20,000 for my birthday.

[DJ Envy]

My birthday.

[Dr. Rita Walker]

When's your birthday?

[Charlamagne tha God]

It's Saturday.

[DJ Envy]

Oh, Saturday. That's.

[Angela Yee]

Yes.

[Dr. Rita Walker]

Go follow Dr. Rita Walker.

[DJ Envy]

Right.

[Angela Yee]

Happy birthday, Dr. Walker. You turn up. Okay.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Happy birthday, world.

[DJ Envy]

It's Dr. Rita Walker. It's the Breakfast Club. Good morning.

[Dr. Rita Walker]

Wake that ass up early in the morning. The Breakfast Club.

[Just Hilarious]

If you're not watching BMF on Stars, you're seriously missing out from executive producer Curtis 50 Cent Jackson. The new season is coming and Meech and Terry are leveling up. They're expanding their empire, launching a music label and even hitting the 1995 Source Awards. Oh, and did I mention Lamar is back. BMF is where drama, hustle and hip hop collide. The drama top tier, the stakes higher than ever. This is the season everyone's going to be talking about. Don't miss the season premiere June 6, only on Starz and the Starz app.

[Dr. Rita Walker]

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[DJ Envy]

Vibe, 64 colors of personalized lighting and a Bose premium sound system have you covered.

[Dr. Rita Walker]

Hands down, the all new Nissan Murano is your stress free getaway. Because sometimes the greatest rush isn't rushing at all. Drive the all new Nissan Murano today.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Panoramic moonroof, ambient lighting, bows and massaging leather. Appointed seats are optional features.

[DJ Envy]

Okay, have you heard about this? Last year the green changed the formula for their Cool Rush deodorant. Their fans rebelled and wanted the old scent back and degree. Listen, that doesn't happen often. They admitted they effed up and are bringing the original Cool Rush scent back now. It's exactly how you remember it. Cool, crisp and fresh. It's the reason it's the one men's antiperspirant. And it's back in Walmart, Target and other stores now for under $4. So try it and see what the fuss is about. Head to your local Walmart or Target to try the OG degree cool rush for yourself.

[Unknown]

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[Charlamagne tha God]

This is an iHeart podcast.