INTERVIEW: Erick Sermon Clarifies Diddy Incident, Owning His Publishing, Iconic Sound + More

Summary

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The Breakfast Club — INTERVIEW: Erick Sermon Clarifies Diddy Incident, Owning His Publishing, Iconic Sound + More

Date: December 11, 2025
Hosts: DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, Charlamagne Tha God
Guest: Erick Sermon

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Episode Overview

In this candid, wide-ranging interview, hip-hop legend Erick Sermon sits down with The Breakfast Club to clear the air about his involvement in the recent Diddy documentary, explain his unique approach to business and publishing ownership, reminisce about his influential history in hip-hop, and reflect on personal hardships—including addiction and grief. The conversation is loaded with behind-the-scenes tales, advice for new artists, and an unfiltered view into both the music industry and Sermon's storied journey.

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Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Diddy Story and Netflix Documentary

[03:21 – 11:13]

• Erick Sermon clarifies the viral story from the Diddy doc, emphasizing he never embellished events and never intended disrespect toward Misa (Diddy's then-girlfriend) or Diddy.
  • "What I said was the truth. I never capped... Me and Misa’s friends... I was just giving my story." — Erick Sermon [03:43]
• Breakdown of the actual incident:
  • Sermon and Misa (in the driver’s seat of his truck) were talking outside her house; Diddy approached, angry but no physical fight ensued ("He never touched me. Come on, stop it now.").
  • After tensions cooled, they discussed music, including Keith Murray and upcoming artists.
• Media Misrepresentation:
  • Sermon notes the Netflix doc “looks crazy” and “I look crazy, like I didn’t belong there, you know, when you see everybody else.” — [11:13]
• Documentary Appearance:
  • He was unaware that anecdote would be kept, and stresses his friendship with both Misa and Diddy.
  • “I would have never, ever tried to put Misa in a situation on that… it was just like a friend thing, you know?” — [09:42]
• Aftermath:
  • Misa is upset, hasn’t spoken to Sermon, but he hopes to clear the air (“I didn’t mean to do nothing to her because she is my friend.” — [10:44])

Memorable Quote

“Since 1989... this is my first time being this on fire... number one Netflix, 49 countries... and the album coming at the same time. I didn’t have this.” — Erick Sermon [11:26–12:28]

2. Resurgence, New Album & Industry Evolution

[12:28 – 14:22]

• Sermon discusses the postponed release of his album "Dynamic Duos," originally made during the pandemic. Signed as a partner with Kevin Liles' label, the album faced years of industry “politics,” including estate clearances (Prodigy, Nate Dogg, Sean Price).
• When the record finally dropped, it coincided with global Netflix exposure from the documentary.
• Charlamagne insists Sermon has a long record of reinvention: “You reinvented yourself so many times.” — [11:55]

3. Legacy, Influence, and the East Coast Sound

[14:22 – 19:01]

• DJ Envy and Charlamagne laud Sermon’s underappreciated impact as an architect of the East Coast sound.
• Sermon reflects on his idols (Larry Smith, Marley Marl, Jermaine Dupri), mixed musical influences from upbringing (“Parliament, Zap, BT Express, Led Zeppelin, Van Halen”), and the origins of the EPMD sound—blending genres and pioneering sampling despite being unaware of the ‘producer’ title as kids.
  • “All the records that mom had against the speaker... you just picked whatever you picked...” — [16:04]
• The effortless chemistry between EPMD (“It was all Run DMC... Everything that we did was Run DMC...”) and their DIY approach to getting signed.

Memorable Quote

“EPMD was a mixture of stuff that we grew up with and stuff that we... found in the crib. And that became whatever the sound was...” — Erick Sermon [17:49]

4. Financial Wisdom, Publishing, and Artistic Ownership

[23:01 – 25:57]

• Envy highlights Sermon as a rare example of sustained wealth, asking why other hip-hop figures encountered financial pitfalls but he did not.
• Sermon explains his early real estate lessons from Parish of EPMD, and the value of owning publishing:
  • “After the breakup, I started buying all type of shit... but then I had so many groups, so many deals... I ended up selling my half... and giving 40% away. But Clive Davis came in... $4 million... kept on doing what it was doing. Publishing is what you see now, don’t forget, I never sold because I didn’t have to.”
• On the value of publishing:
  • “Weekend does I Don’t Want to Know... 1.9 billion streams brings you $250,000 every quarter for 4% on one record.” — Erick Sermon [25:57]

Financial Reality for Artists

“If you own your publishing... here’s what can feed you, like a 401k or some type of retirement... if you own your publishing.” — Erick Sermon [25:57]

5. Personal Struggles: Addiction and Recovery

[27:01 – 39:19]

• Sermon speaks openly about his 12-year battle with painkiller addiction, triggered by an accident and back surgery (“from my balls all the way down to my legs was all numb” — [33:07]).
• Initially prescribed Vicodin in 2001, later Percocet after surgery in 2009, he details how rehab in 2022 finally helped him get clean.
  • “I went to rehab in 2022... not celebrity rehab, a rehab upstate with regular people.” — [34:24]
  • "The first five days is you doing detox... you get this shit called the shake... restless legs. So your leg is kicking, and then your arm starts kicking so you can't sleep." — [35:26]
• His mother’s illness and words kept him from relapsing:
  • “My mother said if you do that, I’m not going to make it. So once she said that, there’s no way I’m going to touch the pill.” — [37:06]
• Finding healing in work and support (“Kanye called and said, it happened to me too... he was there for me”), music, and new beginnings after tragedy.

6. Business Models: Ownership, Streaming & Merch

[40:22 – 46:47]

• Sermon critiques modern streaming rates and advocates for artists to monetize directly via websites, merchandise, and exclusive releases.
  • “The president of Spotify… made $425 million [in 2025]… and we still making less than a penny.” — [42:44]
  • “If I get 8,000 fans to give me $200, that means merchandise, records, the whole night, I made $1.6 million. I don't need a million people.” — [43:14]
• Encourages established artists to reclaim value by selling directly on their own platforms; contends that “the website is back. Make it dope again, make it colorful... Shopify, Bandcamp, whatever… that’s the model.” — [44:10]
• Pushes back on the industry idea that music is just promo for touring or merch:
  • “You should be getting paid off the music too.” — Charlamagne [47:04]

7. Missed Opportunities & Legacy Acts

[48:13 – 50:53]

• Sermon recounts almost signing (but not) artists like 50 Cent, Rick Ross, Akon, and the Fugees—explaining that he was caught up with his own massive Hit Squad roster at the time.
• Reflects on artists who fit the Sermon/Hit Squad mold but left (Cannabis, Raekwon) due to bigger deals elsewhere.
  • “I was really going to sign Raekwon by himself first, but again time go by, you know...”

8. "Dynamic Duos" Album & Hip-Hop Collaborations

[50:53 – 54:03]

• Sermon previews future volumes, hints at tracks with The Lox, CNN, Blackstar, Eightball & MJG, Raekwon and Ghostface, and more.
• Shares vision for curating duos (Wish-list: OutKast, UGK, Slick Rick & Doug E. Fresh).

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Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• On the Diddy Story:
  "He never touched me. Come on, stop it now. Stop. Come on now. Just me, okay? He... he swung on me. So now at the end of the day, me being respectful... I didn’t want to do that in front of her." — Erick Sermon [04:51]
• On his documentary inclusion:
  "I look crazy, like I didn't belong there, you know... Everybody who saw said the same, 'What is Eric doing in that documentary?'" — Erick Sermon [11:13]
• On publishing and generational wealth:
  “I never sold because I didn’t have to... 1.9 billion streams brings you $250,000 every quarter for 4% on one record.” — Erick Sermon [25:57]
• On artist independence:
  “The website is back. Make it dope again, make it colorful... Shopify, Bandcamp, whatever… that’s the model.” — Erick Sermon [44:10]
• On musical influence:
  "EPMD was a mixture of stuff that we grew up with and stuff that we... found in the crib. And that became whatever the sound was...” — Erick Sermon [17:49]
• On addiction recovery:
  “My mother said if you do that, I’m not going to make it. So once she said that, there’s no way I’m going to touch the pill.” — Erick Sermon [37:06]
• On almost signing major artists:
  “50 Cent, Rick Ross, Akon, Fugees... at the time... I had my own groups, so I didn’t look at what somebody else was doing.” — Erick Sermon [48:13]

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Light Moments & Camaraderie

• Sermon and the hosts joke about his childhood footwear and earliest days with Paris (“He snapped on me… What kind of sneakers you got on? These are Pumas. ‘Nah, those ain't the real Pumas’”—[19:01])
• Several playful "pause" moments about health stories, dancing, and in-studio banter—keeping the vibe both nostalgic and humorous throughout.
• Running jokes about clickbait, documentaries, and internet rumors regarding the Diddy doc for comic relief (“I need to make sure that we got clickbaits. So start something up real quick.” — Sermon [54:05–56:10])

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Segment Timestamps

• Intro/Ads: 00:00–03:01
• Diddy Incident Clarification: 03:21–11:13
• Album, Documentary, Career Highs: 11:26–14:22
• Legacy, Sound Creation, EPMD Origins: 14:22–19:01
• Financials & Publishing Mastery: 23:01–27:01
• Addiction and Recovery: 27:01–39:19
• Dealing with Grief, Kanye Collaboration: 37:06–40:29
• Streaming Economics & Direct-To-Fan Model: 42:21–47:04
• Stories of Almost Signing Major Acts: 48:13–50:53
• Dynamic Duos Project, Hip-Hop Legacy: 50:53–54:03
• Wrap-up, Clickbait Banter, Final Jokes: 54:05–57:30

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Conclusion

Erick Sermon’s session with The Breakfast Club is a compelling blueprint for both emerging and established artists: Value your story, your relationships, your business, and your health. His candor about struggles—be they personal or professional—reminds listeners of hip-hop’s enduring spirit and the ever-evolving importance of true ownership and self-worth, both in and beyond the industry.

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Transcript

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

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[Danny Shapiro]

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[Marcus Grant]

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[Danny Shapiro]

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[Eric Sermon]

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[Charlamagne Tha God]

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[Charlamagne Tha God]

Hold up every Day I.

[Eric Sermon]

Wake up.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Wake your ass up.

[Eric Sermon]

The Breakfast Club. We all finished or y' all done?

[DJ Envy]

Morning, everybody. It's DJ Envy. Just hilarious. Charlemagne the guy. We are the breakfast club. Lauren LaRose is here as well, and we got a special guest in the building. The legendary Eric Sermon, ladies and gentlemen.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Now, you know you're one of the greatest producers of all time, but we're gonna get to that in a second. We need to get to this ridiculous ass story that you told on the Diddy documentary.

I've been wanting to talk to you about this since I started.

[Eric Sermon]

Okay, I got you.

[Robyn Dixon]

Now.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

When you sat down and told this story right, and then went back and watched it right, did you say to.

[DJ Envy]

Yourself, I told him wrong?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That sounded ridiculous?

[Eric Sermon]

No, it's just not ridiculous. I'm gonna tell you what. What I said was the truth. I never capped. So what I did say was the truth how it went down, you know, because again, me and Misa's friends, I love Misa to death. I would never put do something to try to disrespect that, because behind the scenes, I gave her the number to call Alex, and she wrote in the text, too. Oh, yeah. If it wasn't for Eric, I wouldn't even reached out. She told Alex no about the documentary. So I wouldn't even did that if I was trying to disrespect her. On. I was just giving my story two of what I said. Me and her are sitting in the.

[DJ Envy]

Car, she in the driver's seat.

[Eric Sermon]

She's in the driver's seat. Right. So if something was going on, I wouldn't be in the car talking. You know what I'm saying? I'll be, you know, whatever. So somebody knocked on my window and it was him, Diddy. So of course he goes with her now. So of course anybody will be angry and be mad because that's his girl.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

But wasn't it your car?

[Eric Sermon]

Yeah, but I'm saying, as far as him being angry.

He never touched me. Come on, stop it now. Stop. Come on now. Just me, okay? He. When I got out the car, he was angry, so he swung on me.

Yeah, I got out the car. Right. Can't swing in the car. And then he made it seem like he swung on. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no. I got out the car and we started talking. Then he swung on me. So now at the end of the day, me being respectful, knowing that too. I didn't want to do that in front of her. Cuz I know you to swing back either. I I listen envy, you understand? You would have dragged him. I'm asking why exactly? Because of the respect for her.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Or was me saying, the car. So Misa was in the car.

[Eric Sermon]

She got out the car.

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

She said she got what?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

So you told her get out and told Diddy?

[Eric Sermon]

No, I told her because she's got out. Of course you're gonna get out.

[Robyn Dixon]

Right?

[Eric Sermon]

Talking, you know, so forget. Don't forget.

[Danny Shapiro]

We.

[Eric Sermon]

We. He's yelling. You know what I'm saying? So. But me and him is also friends, though, too. Don't forget. I. I was in the intro of the Mary J. Blige album. Yeah, right. So automatically. And then he had. Did come and talk to me, too, which is epmd. So I had to get the clearance for that, though, too. So we was already, you know, kind of friends. He befriended me, so it wasn't like. I'm like, yo, I couldn't believe that it happened to begin with. So my thing was, let's go around the corner so we won't have to do that in front of my friend. And you're angry, so y' all really was cool. I was cool with that.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

So that's like me and Envy getting into something, right? See, that's not how the story look on Netflix again.

[Eric Sermon]

That's on Netflix. It looks crazy. So let me. Let me fix the other part about the Biggie Smalls. Of course, Biggie Smalls is not out yet, so it's new music. So when somebody says, oh, it don't add up with the baby and this not being born, I'm saying, no, it was new music. So again, after you finish going around the corner, you calm down now, because now there's no reason for you to get hyped now, because now this. This situation is all calm. So now, like, yo, check this out. And then he. Then we talked about Keith Murray because he was a big Keith Murray fan. So he's like, yo, Eric, what's up with Keith Murray? I'm like, keith Murray signed to me. So again, the conversation that people don't know about this is what happened.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

So what was the ride around the corner like when he got in the car? What did y' all talk about as y' all was driving around?

[Eric Sermon]

No, we didn't think about nothing until we stopped.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

So y' all stopped and realized we don't really want to fight.

[Eric Sermon]

It was never gonna get there for him.

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

You know, y' all had already talked outside the car and kind of cooled it down, is what you're saying.

[Eric Sermon]

No.

[Robyn Dixon]

Can I please ask God damn. All right, hold up. Why was she driving your truck?

[Eric Sermon]

She's in driver's seat.

[Robyn Dixon]

Why was she in the driver's seat of your truck? That's his girl.

[Eric Sermon]

No, I just. She just wanted to be in the driver's seat.

[Robyn Dixon]

Oh, what kind of truck was it?

[Eric Sermon]

It was a.

What the hell was it? Forerunner.

[Robyn Dixon]

She just wanted to be. So you weren't trying to get her back or nothing? No, let her hop in the driver's seat.

[Eric Sermon]

No, I wasn't trying to do that.

[Robyn Dixon]

All right. And so when she got out, y' all left her just right there.

[DJ Envy]

Left her outside.

[Eric Sermon]

She was in front of her crib.

[Danny Shapiro]

Oh, all right.

[Robyn Dixon]

So this was at the crib? I ain't know.

[Eric Sermon]

Oh, yeah, we parked in front of the crib, right?

[Robyn Dixon]

Cause I'm like, why would you go around to another.

[Eric Sermon]

Nah, nah, nah, nah. We in front of her house.

[Robyn Dixon]

All right, so what was this?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Was the song fucking you tonight?

[Eric Sermon]

No, Would you stop?

This was ready to die.

Think about. So let me tell you about. About. With Puff. I was just telling my story, you know? It wasn't like I was trying to even diss him neither. Don't forget Puffy came and got Keith Murray for every remix, every song. He called me for Josie's remix, so if you that angry with somebody, I wouldn't be getting phone calls. He called for Redman. He cough every time something came out on Bad Boy, one of my artists was somebody who he called or he called me to remix it. So again, I understand how it might look, but it wasn't like, that's why I couldn't wait to get here.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Y' all was friends. I get it now, now. Now I get it.

[DJ Envy]

So the next question is, why the documentary? Because I didn't see that on my bingo card. When I seen the documentary and I.

[Eric Sermon]

See Eric the documentary.

[DJ Envy]

So who reached out for the documentary? And why did.

[Eric Sermon]

They asked. They asked me the questions. You know how 50 is again? I had 50 with Bernard in the beginning, you know, don't forget Corey Rooney. Brung 50 Cent to my crib next door. Like, walked over with him. Be like, yo, here's my artist. Whatever. I end up doing Heat Wave, you know, And I end up doing a couple other songs, though, too. So I'm also friends with him, too. So when they ask me the question, I'm like, yo, okay. I do it not knowing it was going to be, you know, how you put stuff together. I was just. I told a couple of stories. Envy. This is a story that they. They End up keeping, you know? So again, I'm not here to envy you. If anybody knows me, it's you.

[DJ Envy]

That's what I said.

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

He was very surprised.

[Eric Sermon]

And you know my crew and you know me as far as just how. How I roll again in the day. I'm not trying to debunk or make everything sound nice or whatever it is. People don't know the friendship of Misa and me and. And him. We was actually friends. And I would have never, ever tried to put Misa in a situation on that. And I said friends. I didn't say we was like that and we was doing all that. Said, yo, that was my friend, you know, because we never really put together as being boyfriend and girlfriend. It was just like a friend thing, you know?

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

Have you talked to. Damn.

[Danny Shapiro]

Yep.

[Robyn Dixon]

Have you talked to me?

[Eric Sermon]

Okay, now. And this is the part that, again, at the end of the day, I didn't. I was at Art Basel. I heard that she was there, but I didn't see. I didn't see her out, but. But again, I know she wasn't gonna pick up my phone call, because, again, you have to let somebody calm down and be like, whatever. And see, because she was getting so much stuff. Whatever. But she text my. My best friend Bernard and didn't say some nice things.

[DJ Envy]

Of course not.

[Eric Sermon]

You know, so again, but it was in the beginning, you know what I'm saying? So hopefully, you know, she sees this, and then I'll be able to talk to her, you know, and say, you know, I didn't mean to do nothing to her because she is my friend.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Well, I guess. I guess for this new generation, every damn near every man on that doc looks like a victim.

[Robyn Dixon]

Yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You know what I'm saying? I know that, but that's what I'm saying. You got guys on the top, but they. They butts got touched and everything. So when people see you on the.

[Eric Sermon]

Dock, they're like, yeah, I wasn't supposed. Yeah.

I look crazy, like I didn't belong there, you know, when you see everybody else, I know you was like. I was like, yo, I didn't bel. Your envy. I swear. I want to do. We want Superman going around the world again. Be like, you know what? I can rewind this all back.

[Robyn Dixon]

Yeah.

[Eric Sermon]

You know what I'm saying? And do it. Do it over. Because everybody who saw said the same, what is Eric doing in that documentary? You know? But at the end of the day, it's like this. I can't even take this, though, too. Since 19. Whatever. 89, though, Jess. The 90. This is my first time being this on fire. Like, really.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

No, it's not.

[DJ Envy]

Just, like, music, right?

[Eric Sermon]

Yeah, no, no, that's.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You reinvented yourself so many times.

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

Explain what you need.

[Eric Sermon]

Charlamagne. One second. I'm telling you, man, this right here is a different type. Like, I felt like, Nah, I'm telling you. Like, this is the whole world. Like, you couldn't have a hit record and be around the world, but you talking about 23 countries. Number one, Netflix, 49 countries. Yeah, okay, whatever. Yeah, you got it. Just all this and then the album coming at the same time. I'm number one, you know, on. On itunes. Like, I didn't have this, though.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Charlotte, I don't want them to know you for the docket. Not that story. That story sounds.

[Eric Sermon]

No, no, no, no, no. Listen, I'm not saying that. I'm just saying as far as the. Yeah, as far as me being. Listen, I don't want to be hot for that neither. I'm saying. But it did. It helped the project of dynamic duos purposely align album. They kept pushing back. The album was. Listen, Jess, this album is four years old, okay? It was doing Covid, whatever. Kevin. L came and got me in two, two, shout out. 1920. 19, 20, 20. Then after that, two years went by Covid, and then all of a sudden, they buy 300 for 400 million after that.

[DJ Envy]

So you assigned the 300, right.

[Eric Sermon]

I was signed with Kevin Artist, but as a partner. Okay.

[DJ Envy]

Oh, I didn't know that.

[Eric Sermon]

You know, Envy. I'm too old for to be signed to somebody.

So after that, whatever. Time went by. All of a sudden, three and a half years went by. Then I had to get the politics of Prodigy's estate, Nate Dogg's estate, Sean Price's estate. So all this stuff took a little time. So now we ended up here. It kept coming back, going back, going back. And then December 5th, it finally happened. They was calling me Dr. Dre. Oh, Eric is lying is never coming. And I understand. Cause I was telling this lie since, you know, not to them for four years, you know.

[Robyn Dixon]

How did you get Denzel Washington to do the intro?

[Eric Sermon]

It wasn't Denzel, you know, it's C King, Yo. That's my homeboy. Exactly. Yeah.

[Robyn Dixon]

Yo, he does the impressed impersonation so good. I literally thought, I'm like, yo, Eric, he got Denzel. Like, I'm like, damn.

Intros.

[Eric Sermon]

Okay.

[Robyn Dixon]

Shout out to cko.

[Eric Sermon]

He is crazy. Okay.

[DJ Envy]

You know, you talk about your history in this music industry, right? And I think you're a forgetful person, right? Because people forget all the hits that you have, the artists that you have. And when they have a lot of.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Times, these conversations, the sound that he.

[DJ Envy]

Created, the sound that you create. I feel like when they have these conversations, they don't mention Eric Sermon enough, right? Do you feel that way?

[Eric Sermon]

Yeah. I mean, listen, man, there's people that don't know who Larry Smith is, right? And Larry Smith, I know y' all know, suck MCs, Houdini, you know, you talking about, you know, Slick Rick, you know, whatever. This man was a genius. So when I look at that happening and then Molly Ma too, not being talked about, knowing that if he didn't sample, this would not be where we at now, too. So Envy, sometimes I look at that, but I look at the ones that came before be like, damn, they ain't talked about neither. Then Jermaine Dupree, though, too, is one of those two. Who somebody be like, you know, who was underrated, you know what I'm saying? But again, as long as, you know, and my colleagues, like, when I see Pharrell and he starts bowing and stuff, you know, it makes me know, like, okay, yo, you know, I did something. So in actuality, it doesn't matter, as long as y' all know, you know what I'm saying? I'm cool with that.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Well, we got to show the new generation, like, you're one of the architects of the east coast sound period, correct? Like, what inspired that sonic identity?

[DJ Envy]

And artists on the east coast, people.

[Eric Sermon]

Them little kids don't care about who's what.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yes, they do, because they think you Buffy victim number three.

We're not gonna have that.

[Robyn Dixon]

Number five.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Not let them do that to you.

[Eric Sermon]

All right, so what inspired that again?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

What inspired that? That that sounded. Did you know at the time you were creating something new?

[Eric Sermon]

Well, again, EPMD was just. Stop it, okay?

EPMD was something that, like I said, for me and Paris, didn't know, Charlie, I mean, that we was. Was producers. We thought every record that we heard was done by the artist. So. So we didn't know about the name producer. So whatever that we was making, we made thinking that this is how it's supposed to go. So all the records that mom had against the speaker, because you back then, you know, you too young to know about this, but they used to put the albums and stack em up against the speaker or stack em up against whatever wall unit you had. So that was all lined up. So you just picked whatever you picked. My dad had all these albums, you know, just the Whispers, you know, Earth, Wind and Fire, BT Express, of course, Parliament, the whole nine. And Paris father had Zap, so that's where more bounce came from. So he had all that. Then all the stuff coming from Brentwood. We had a mixture of white, black, and Puerto Rican that we grew up. So I knew all the rock songs. Led Zeppelin, I knew about, you know, Genesis. I knew about, you know, Van Halen. So we mixed all that. ZZ Top is your customer. I want to say it out there, but the. But at the end, when he says. When I say at the end, you hear the guitar playing, you hear the Banette. We played it for the hood. The hood said, take the guitars out. So you a customer became plain with just a beat in the bass line. But we had the ZZ Top cheap Sunglasses sample in it. So we had, you know, Godzilla by Man Blew us the cult. All these songs we had and we knew. So EPMD was a mixture of stuff that we grew up with and stuff that we. I found in the crib. And that became whatever the sound was with the Roger. Because once we got the more bounce, we kept that going. And then the Parliament, we kept that going.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

The thing I loved about epmd, y' all had, like, a chemistry that just was. Was effortless.

[Eric Sermon]

It was all Run dmc.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Okay?

[Eric Sermon]

Everything that we did was Run dmc because Run the. Don't forget, when we made the demo record, pieces of my demo, me and Paris really built a 68 Camaro car, you know, stripped it, the whole nine. Got it, you know, painted up by Earl Shives. You're too young for that, too. Earl shot was 99. So you get the car, go through the paint machine, get it all painted up. You know what I'm saying? And we drove it. The car overheated, though. But, you know, we got to Manhattan and. And we walked to the. To three labels that we found on the albums. See, back then, on the albums, they had the addresses, so we walked. We giving some old. I'm 56 years old, so. So you look at the situations, and we got the address and we walk. And then we got to Fresh Records, and that's when we met, you know.

Juggie Gales and Will Sokoloff and. And. And next thing you know, three days later, we got signed on that, you know, from doing that part.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

What was the secret to y'?

[Danny Shapiro]

All.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Y' all partnership, though. And, like, how did you and Paris challenge each other creatively?

[Eric Sermon]

Yeah, see, Paris didn't rhyme. When I met him, really? The. Paris was a dj. So I came from another part of Brentwood, which was kind of like, you know, say, if the Bronx was the Bronx, that was my side I came from. We had graffiti, breakdancing, DJing. The whole shit was hot where I was at. So when I came to Paris's neighborhood, I was. I moved to my grandmother's house. I met Paris at the bus stop, and he snapped on me, too. Like, you know me. He didn't even know me. But he was like, yo, what kind of sneakers you got on? I'm like, these are pumas. He's like, nah, those ain't the real pumas, so. And he was bold for that, though, just because I didn't know. But I paid $30 for them, though, Charlemagne. But they didn't have the hoes, so they was. So Baskets was the real one. I had on the Puma Invaders. They didn't have the holes.

[Robyn Dixon]

They sound like the ones.

[Eric Sermon]

I know, I know.

[Robyn Dixon]

The Puma Invaders.

[Eric Sermon]

Y' all, come on.

But I didn't know. I had on the leaves. I had on the Latika shirt. I had the outfit on, but I had on the wrong sneakers.

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

That had to hurt. You thought she was flying.

[Eric Sermon]

I know. Just walking. Killing him in the Invaders, I. I thought I was. I was right. And he's like, yo, what else you got on? And again, people laughed, and I was, like, kind of embarrassed. But then after a while, he found out that I knew how to rhyme, so he was like, yo, you know, So I rhymed, and I had the Jane story. I had Jane since I was 12. So when I rhymed, the Jane story, Charlotte, man, he was like, yo, damn, you got something else. I'm like, yo, I got this story about this guy named Bernard Getz, you know? So I had the Bernard guest story, too, by him shooting the train up. So those are my first kind of rap. My mother, Godbuster dead. She brung home Rapids Delight and a break called Apache. Apache had the green label on it, right? So she brought these two records home, so already knew. And again, my big ass used to pop, too, when I was younger, but I was, of course, more.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

God damn.

[Eric Sermon]

What?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

My big ass used to pop.

[Eric Sermon]

Dancing, man.

Enough with the pause.

[DJ Envy]

Dancing.

[Eric Sermon]

Dancing. All right, so listen. So other man, will you stop? Come on, man. Me and you are good friends. So I'm sorry.

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

Stay focused.

[Eric Sermon]

Jess, stop it.

[Danny Shapiro]

All right.

[Eric Sermon]

On Soul Train was a. A guy called the Papalon Kid, right? And he was in the Shalimar group, so I used to watch him on when he was on Soul Train. So I became the Papalon Kid, too. So at the time, you know, this is what I was doing, and the whole neighborhood was rapping. But they would let me get, like, 10 seconds on the mic, the whole. Not this and that, that and this. So I really wasn't getting off as far as on in my neighborhood because I was young. Till I moved to my grandmother's house. And then Paris gave me the shot. Paris gave me the shot. Without Paris giving me the shot, I would never, ever been or even tried to make a record. Because I had. I had a strong lisp, Like a real way stronger than this. So you heard my records. You know, I used to say it's like I got golf balls in my mouth. Pause.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I got a list. So growing up, like, people like you.

[Eric Sermon]

Yeah, yeah. But you can still hear you. Yeah, my. You couldn't hear the words. You know what I'm saying?

[DJ Envy]

And I always want to know. You know, Nyla, our niece, she comes up here, and I told her one time, next time I'm in Queens, I'm gonna take her to some of the big spots in Queens. LL's house, the Rock and all that. I said, we gonna drive out to Long island, go to E's house. And the reason I said that is the first mansion I ever been to and seen was Eric Sermontine.

[Eric Sermon]

Yo, why you always bring that up?

[DJ Envy]

Because it's inspiring.

[Eric Sermon]

Yeah, but then he forced on me on the last interview. He said, yo, Eric. But now I got one, too. But it was inspiring.

[DJ Envy]

Cause he was letting. He let me in his house. And you seen where Keith Murray made records and where Red man made records, where he produced. You've seen the. The landscape. And I'm like, black people could really have mansions.

[Robyn Dixon]

You know what I mean?

[DJ Envy]

So it meant so much. So I always wanted to know when it came to that. We've never heard Eric Sermon having financial problems, but I've never heard, right. What did you do differently than most of these people in the industry? Cause you always hear this person lost, this. This person that. I mean, you even see Dame, who just went into court for bankruptcy or whatever it was he went to court for. How come we never heard that with you?

[Eric Sermon]

Like, what makes you think that again? I watched Parish in the beginning get houses early. Paris was already getting houses early before me. You know what I'm saying? So he was always already into real estate. So then when I was able to get some bread after the breakup, because during the breakup, I really didn't have that much money. You know, with epmd, you didn't really.

[DJ Envy]

Make that much money during EPMD days.

[Eric Sermon]

I didn't have it, you know, I'm just saying. But you know, somebody. But I didn't have it. And plus I was young like Russell gave when he came and got us some fresh records. He spent the $1.6 million to get us, but again, we didn't see it, so. And then we toured a lot though too. So I was able to get me a crib and get me a bins, you know, but it was like I didn't really see anything as far as bank account type situations until I moved to Atlanta and the group broke up. And once the group broke up, I started buying all type of shit. And I wasn't even living in the cribs, you know, I was getting apartments, getting houses, whatever, just doing whatever at the time. All of a sudden, though, envy, you see what I was doing. I had so many groups in so many places. I think Angie Martinez had said one time, how does Eric get all these deals? Because I was going to the labels winning. So it wasn't like I was going there and taking money. So that means Reggie was winning there, Keith Murray winning that jive, you know, Dave Halster was winning at, you know, at DreamWorks. You know, I had people. Fonza Hunter was at EMI, you know, then I've had the Death Squad came out. Then Rudder Meth came out. You know how many deals I had, how much upfront money I was getting, you know. Yeah, but that was Paris more too. But I ended up selling my, my half, which is. I don't know why I did that at the time, But I gave 40% this and that, that and this. Then Clive Davis came, you know. You know, that was $4 million. This is like, you know, again, at the end of the day, it was like it just kept doing what it was doing. Kadar Mossenberg at one time too. So it was the fact that. And then publishing what you see now, don't forget, I never sold because I didn't have to. So now at the end of the day, the publishing is doing what it is. You know, you probably saw the, saw the, the. The Post after so many years. Weekend does I Don't want to Know by, you know, whatever. 1.9 billion streams. 1.9 billion streams brings you $250,000 every quarter.

[DJ Envy]

So every quarter you get 250,000 for them sampling you.

[Eric Sermon]

Jesus Christ. For 4% on one record. So this is what I try to tell people. I Never told the people to flex. I was trying to tell artists, like you said, if you have your publishing and you own it, here's what can feed you, like a 401k or some type of retirement type of thing if you own your publishing. But I get it. If you don't have the money, you have to sell it and people are cashing in for the big money. I understand that. 200 million 200. I'm going to do the same thing too. If I was Dre and Neo and Dream and all of them, I do it too. But again, but in the, in the small scheme of things, I never had to do that. So. So when I sit back and I be at home and years go by, I took off 12 years because I was on drugs for 12 years. So again, at the end of the day, them Percocets had me at home anyway, you know what I'm saying? So this is 12 years of being able to sit down because you got publishing checks from all that music that I was able to do. Was able to have me sit down. That's how I live and be. Without me doing work is publishing.

Percoces was when, you know, well, when I had that thing in 2001 when they said I fell from the window whenever. That was my first time on Vicodin.

[DJ Envy]

Do you ever tell the story of that or you never told a story?

[Eric Sermon]

Yeah, I mean, people know it wasn't that, you know, I was in the wrong place at the wrong time, but.

[DJ Envy]

They said it was suicide and everything.

[Eric Sermon]

But Vicodin is what you get first. That's why I said Michael Jackson. It was the pills before he got to PO4 whatever. But I had the Vicodin first. Once I had the Vicodin, I'm like, you know what, Charlemagne? I'm like, this, this is cool. So I was off of the Vicodin once I got.

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

The holiday season is the most wonderful time of the year. Filled with joy and laughter, a little bit of the festive chaos we all secretly love. From long shopping lists to travel plans to family dinners. It's a lot happening all at once. But this season, Coca Cola wants to remind everyone that the magic isn't in the hustle and bustle. And it's finding joy in the little moments, like laughing over old memories, playing holiday games, or taking that first sip of an ice cold Coca Cola that cuts through all the holiday frenzy and brings the cool comfort to your soul. Because that's the good stuff. The joy hiding in plain sight. The sound of laughter mixing with the clink of glasses, the calm between the songs and the stories, and when things start to feel like they're doing the most, that crisp, delicious taste of Coca Cola can be the reset everyone needs. Just a little reminder that the season isn't about rushing, it's about refreshing. So wherever the holidays take you, slow down, take a breath and savor the moment. Enjoy a Coca Cola refresh your holidays.

[Marcus Grant]

Hey y', all, it's me, your man, M.G. marcus Grant. And I'm Michael F. Florio.

[Eric Sermon]

And I'm Laquan Jones.

[Marcus Grant]

If you're looking to win your fantasy football league, you need to tune in to the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast. It's right there in the name. Every week, Florio, LQ and I bring you the latest news from around the league. We break down every matchup, give you our analysis and advice so you know who to start, sit, drop and trade to bring that championship trophy home. I just want to remind everyone how good Rasheed Rice was last season. In these three healthy games, he was the wide receiver. Two in Fantasy I think Rasheed Rice just goes off this week.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

The Chiefs come on a flip pass to Rice near side.

[Eric Sermon]

Touchdown.

[Marcus Grant]

Ramandre Stevens is my sleeper this week. This is a matchup where I think I can slot in my flex position and he could deliver double digit points this week.

[Eric Sermon]

Drake takes the snap, hands it off for Monterey, running it right and running into the end zone.

[Danny Shapiro]

Touchdown.

[Marcus Grant]

It's never too late to turn your fantasy season around. Subscribe to the NFL Fantasy Football podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

Welcome to Decoding Women's Health. I'm Dr. Elizabeth Poynter, Chair of Women's Health and Gynecology at the Atria Health Institute in New York City. On this show I'll be talking to top researchers and top clinicians, asking them your burning questions and bringing that information about women's health and midlife directly to you.

[Eric Sermon]

100% of women go through menopause. It can be such a struggle for our quality of life. But even if it's natural, why should.

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

We suffer through it?

[Eric Sermon]

The types of symptoms that people talk about is forgetting everything. I never used to forget things. They're concerned that one they have dementia.

[DJ Envy]

And the other one is do I have adhd?

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

There is unprecedented promise with regard to.

[Eric Sermon]

Cannabis and cannabinoids to sleep better, to.

[Gisele Bryant]

Have less pain, to have better mood.

[Eric Sermon]

And also to have better day to day life.

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

Listen to Decoding Women's Health with Dr.

[Gisele Bryant]

Elizabeth Poynter on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you're listening.

[Robyn Dixon]

You know the shade is always shadiest right here.

[Gisele Bryant]

Season six of the podcast Reasonably Shady with Gisele Bryant and Robyn Dixon is here dropping every Monday as two of.

[Robyn Dixon]

The founding members of the Real Housewives Potomac. We're giving you all the laughs, drama, and reality news you can handle.

[Eric Sermon]

And, you know, we don't hold back.

[Gisele Bryant]

So come be reasonable or shady with us each and every Monday, I was.

[Eric Sermon]

Going through a walk in my neighborhood. Out of the blue, I see this.

[Gisele Bryant]

Huge sign next to somebody's house.

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

Okay.

[Gisele Bryant]

The sign says, my neighbor is a Karen.

[Eric Sermon]

No way. I died laughing.

[Gisele Bryant]

I'm like, I have to know.

[Robyn Dixon]

You are lying.

[Eric Sermon]

Humongous, y'.

[Robyn Dixon]

All. They had some time on their hands. Listen to Reasonably Shady from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app.

[Gisele Bryant]

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Danny Shapiro]

Hi, I'm Danny Shapiro, host of the hit podcast Family Secrets.

[Marcus Grant]

We were in the car like a.

[Eric Sermon]

Rolling stone came on and he said.

[Marcus Grant]

There'S a line in there about your mother.

[Eric Sermon]

And I said, what.

[DJ Envy]

What I would do if I didn't.

[Eric Sermon]

Feel like I was being accepted is.

[Marcus Grant]

Choose an identity that other people can't have.

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

I knew something had happened to me in the middle of the night, but.

[Eric Sermon]

I couldn't hold on to what had happened.

[Danny Shapiro]

These are just a few of the moving and important stories I'll be holding space for on my upcoming 13th season of Family Secrets. Whether you've been on this journey with me from season one or just joining the Family Secrets family, we're so happy to have you with us. I'll dive deep into. Into the incredible power of secrets, the ones that shape our identities, test our relationships, and ultimately reveal who we truly are. Listen to Family secrets on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Eric Sermon]

Better. 2009, I had back surgery as far as like one of them L5s or whatever. The. The. My. My nerves had wrapped around my spine, so it had numbed my whole. From my balls all the way down to my legs was all numb. So I was 72 hours away from nerve damage on that. Right.

[DJ Envy]

What's wrong with you?

[Eric Sermon]

They gotta say pause.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Clearly.

[Danny Shapiro]

Clearly.

[Robyn Dixon]

Just talking about balls. So it's just.

Sorry.

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

Sorry.

[Eric Sermon]

Listen.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I'm stupid.

[Eric Sermon]

That's crazy. You're a big kid, man.

Wait a second. It was a delay. It was a one man delay.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And he wanted me to catch him.

[Eric Sermon]

And laugh, but I would not.

[Danny Shapiro]

Look at it. He was.

[Eric Sermon]

But I said no.

I didn't say. I said I was. I was. I was numb.

[Danny Shapiro]

You couldn't.

[Robyn Dixon]

From the balls down, like.

No action.

[Eric Sermon]

So they gave me 120 percocets.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Damn right.

[Eric Sermon]

So the bottle is this tall.

Right? So. So it's 120. So for the first two days, I didn't. With him, you know, because I didn't know what it was. I wasn't. I'm like, where the Vicodin at? You know, whatever. But then the pain started. So now I take the Percocets. Now the pain stopped, but I like the feeling. And after that, it was over 10 years.

[Robyn Dixon]

12.

[Eric Sermon]

12.

[DJ Envy]

How did you finally get off?

[Eric Sermon]

I went to rehab in 2022.

[Gisele Bryant]

Thank God.

[DJ Envy]

Who was your rehab?

[Eric Sermon]

Was it me?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Thank God.

[Eric Sermon]

And I didn't go to no celebrity rehab. I went to a rehab upstate with regular people. And they talk about it though, too. They hit me on the thing like, yo, can't believe you was in here the whole nine. Because I figured if I went to one of the celebrity ones, you allowed to leave and say, if Charlamagne is a fan, I could ask him to get me some Percocet. He'd get it for me. You know what I'm saying? So again, this place was really kind of locked down. They really didn't play. It was a girl and a guy situation. So it was 22 girls up upstairs and 40, 40 men downstairs. So in every day, you go to. To a class from seven to. From seven to eight. So you have classes and you have people who come in on Tuesdays and talk for you.

[DJ Envy]

So you couldn't leave it all?

[Eric Sermon]

No, no.

[DJ Envy]

So during that time, you couldn't produce, you couldn't do nothing.

[Eric Sermon]

You just. None of that.

[DJ Envy]

Just reflect.

[Eric Sermon]

Because the first five days is you doing detox and you doing.

What's that? That should they use for whatever. They give you that for the first four days. And after that you start rehabbing.

[DJ Envy]

How was detoxing not having that after having it for 12 years?

[Eric Sermon]

The four days is crazy. Cause you get this shit called the shake.

[Robyn Dixon]

The bukes.

[Eric Sermon]

Yeah. Well, it's restless legs. So your leg is kicking, and then your arm starts kicking so you can't sleep. So now I'm up for 72 hours doing this arm punching, like I said, for. Sometimes I used to get emotional, but again, not now. But your leg is kicking and your arm is kicking. It's called restless legs. So that happens in the beginning. So now they want you to take some Shit called Suboxone. But Suboxone is another drug. So I was not going to put myself back on something else to calm this down.

[Robyn Dixon]

I never understood why they do that in rehab. They'll give you something else, another drug to wean you off the one that you want. But it has the same shit, same thing.

[Eric Sermon]

So if I would have came home, I would have been on that. I'm like, fuck it. I'll just wait 72 hours, this and that, whatever, whatever. So I ended up taking some Benadryl out of everything, too, to put me to sleep after the 72 hours and not work after that. It was pretty cool. I was just going through it. But then they tell you, don't go back into your environment. That means if you go back home, that driveway is going to remind me of my. My dealer coming to my driveway. If I go around the corner, that store is going to mind me because I always had them meet me somewhere. Like, my kids didn't know. My kids didn't find out. They didn't know nothing for a while. All of a sudden, though, Charlamagne, I'm looking at this situation like, yo, I can't get out of here because again, I'm gonna have to go someplace else. Because if I stay here, it's gonna call right after that. My mother's in stage five.

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

Yeah.

[Robyn Dixon]

Oh, wow.

[Eric Sermon]

So now for the whole year, I'm taking care of her. Now, I don't supposed to be in that environment because now I'm gonna get stressed, and the first thing I'm gonna run to is.

My mother said, if you do that, I'm not going to make it. So once she said that, there's no way I'm going to touch the pill.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Oh. So he was talking to her about the challenges you was facing.

[Eric Sermon]

Well, well, she. No, she's not that. She just knew that I came up from rehab and I wasn't supposed to be in that environment or any type of stressful environment. She knew that. But again, I had to take care of her, you know? So at the end of the day. So once that happened.

From June to May, when she passed away. Right. My mother was so ill because my mother knew that how. How. How it was gonna hurt me for me to see her die.

[Robyn Dixon]

Yeah.

[Eric Sermon]

So I got the call from Kanye west to go produce. I knew I was leaving that week. Charlemagne. All of a sudden, she tells my sister, tell Eric to get on the plane and don't miss that opportunity. She's dying. And she like, you know, well, go do that So I go on the plane. I. I land me and B, soon as I land, he passed me the phones. My sister, my mother transitioned.

[DJ Envy]

Wow.

[Eric Sermon]

Kanye calls and says, eric, it happened to me too. My aunt called me. Don't worry about that. Come to the studio tomorrow. So when niggas talk about ye too, he was there for me.

[Robyn Dixon]

Yeah.

[Eric Sermon]

You know, so that whole seven months with him had me off of what just happened. Even though I went home to bury my mother, I went home and buried her. I flew to Italy where he was at, you know, so we worked in Italy and I came back home again. And after that, whatever, I knew that it had left me. Because believe me, those shit called. It's called pause post acute.

[Danny Shapiro]

Look it up.

[Eric Sermon]

Stress, something, whatever, where you get the symptoms of it. Calling you Chris Rock post acute withdrawal syndrome. There you go.

[Robyn Dixon]

Okay, okay.

[Eric Sermon]

It's. It's calling you. So now it's like, okay, well, damn, you know, how can I get this? But I know I don't want to do this, but something going to have to stop me, because if not, that pause is coming in.

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

What was that first, like, meetup with you and Kanye as you're going through all of this stuff about your mom and he's there with you and he's been through it, like, what was that first initial like? Come here, I got you.

[Eric Sermon]

He just told me that when his mom's died, he went to work too.

[Robyn Dixon]

Yeah.

[Eric Sermon]

So the music helped all of it. I went into the studio. He had a big 25,000 square feet warehouse in Slauson. Right. So we went in there, and next thing you know, it was him and 88 keys, whatever. And the engineer and I just started playing music, and he was just like getting excited, and we was like, whatever. And the producer came in and said, yo, Eric, before you came here, we had no vibe. You know what I'm saying? So whatever was working at the time was just working. And we just kept just doing what we was doing.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

What came from those sessions? Because I remember you had said that Kanye was putting out an album called Y3 and Kanye was like nine putting out, right?

[Eric Sermon]

Yeah. Listen, Charlie, man, you would have. The stuff that we was doing was classic. Yay. Samples, beats, rhymes, the whole nine. Once I came back from burying my mother and our food in Italy, I saw a Todd dollar sign. And I looked on the board, I saw my songs, but all the rest of them was him and Todd dollar sign. So they switched. The whole situation when I was gone.

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

That turned into vultures.

[Eric Sermon]

Right.

[DJ Envy]

You got any of Those songs.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Anything.

[Eric Sermon]

I mean.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

So did anything come out?

[Danny Shapiro]

I don't know.

[Eric Sermon]

Now they leaked a couple of songs.

Worship and something else came out that I did. But it was a leak.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I always wondered, man. Because I don't know. For the people who don't know. Eric Sermon discovered Red man. You heard him mention Keith Murray always wondered if EPM D doesn't break up, do we still get.

[Eric Sermon]

Oh my God. Jesus Christ, man. Yo. Of course. Because Reggie was there.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Okay. Okay.

[Eric Sermon]

Murray was there too. But I can imagine the five years. Don't forget this is. This is Headbanger and crossover just. And we out. So imagine the five years in between. I wonder what would have happened. You know, what was. Was there other groups that would have came. Was the Wu Tang and the Chronic would have been, you know, able to. You know. The reign that we had was. Was Keith Murray would have been the new added addition at that moment. Now we. Oh my God. You know. Another one. You know. So five years in between. I asked that question all the time. I wonder what would have happened.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

How's Keith Illegal people.

[Eric Sermon]

Forget about it. Jamal.

[DJ Envy]

How is you speaking to.

[Danny Shapiro]

How's Keith?

[DJ Envy]

How's Keith doing?

[Eric Sermon]

Yeah, he's doing. He's doing good. I don't really talk to him or see him as much though. But he used to hit me all the time. I haven't heard from Keith in a minute.

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

Yeah.

[Eric Sermon]

Yeah.

[Danny Shapiro]

He.

[Eric Sermon]

Well, Keefer had moved down south. You know what I'm saying? But again, I know that the Death Squad is in the talking right now as far as the Death Squad lp. So hopefully that does happen. You know what I'm saying? Again, right now where music is at to me is fun. But I'm not with the system of putting my music at this time with a name through platforms. Now this album right now is going through a platform because I'm happened at 300. I was signed to and Warner took it. So it's going through the platforms. But that's not my future one.

[DJ Envy]

I like Mass Appeal though. I like what Mass Appeal is doing.

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

You talk. I saw you talk about Mass Appeal and Rolling Stone.

[Eric Sermon]

And listen, I like that too. I just. I just don't. I want to make all the money.

At this time. Because again, listen. The president of Spotify, not the owner. The president makes. He made $300 million in 2024.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Damn.

[Eric Sermon]

In 2025 he made $425 million. Not the owner. The president.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

President. Wow.

[Eric Sermon]

So we still making 000 for less than a penny. Right. Congress just passed A bill that we get $0.01 now, but $0.01 is 1 million streams is 14 grand, right? If I get 14,000 people to give me $1, I made $14,000.

I don't know how. Jay said numbers don't lie. This is just the truth. So if I get 8,000 fans to give me 200 bucks, that means merchandise, records, the whole night. I made $1.6 million. I don't need a million people. I don't need 200,000, 100,000. I need 8,000 people. If 8,000 people give me $100, it's 800 grand.

This doesn't make any sense. DJ Envy is already a name. You already a name already. So at the end of the day, you know you got people who are going to support you is the fact that you don't want to take that shot because again, you don't trust it. But why not? You already popular, so they're going to support whatever you show them.

[Danny Shapiro]

You.

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

You talked about in a Rolling Stone article bringing back, giving people a blueprint to certain things.

[Danny Shapiro]

Right.

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

So with what you just said. So the blueprint that you're telling artists now, even new artists, is what, create a dot com. Like create their own streaming. Like, what is that business model?

[Eric Sermon]

The same thing that you doing right now that no matter what, Everybody has a www.it doesn't matter. That never left. We left the websites because nobody talks about them no more. Yeah, but on your website, you can have Bandcamp and Shopify and it's the same thing no matter what. So this is what you do. You direct them to that same marketing promotion that you would spend how you would market and promote something. Now you send them to your website. Every major show you watch, every major person with a. That is pop. No, that's.

Clothing line, whatever has a www. And once and when they want you to look at something, they direct you to their website. That's the whole thing. The website is back. Make it dope again, make it colorful, make it the fact that whatever. Make it whatever. And then put your on there. Shopify in the band camp or whatever you can use for them to purchase a situation. And that's the model that I would use. I'm not saying the new people because it's going to be harder for somebody who doesn't have a name, but somebody who already has a name. Yeah, I'm just telling you the numbers again. If you got a thousand people giving you $5, just the numbers, you can't lose on that. And you see the people making you Sleep just. And you making $30,000, whatever. And you resting because this that you put out, hat is moving while you're sleeping.

[DJ Envy]

She didn't killed it with sunglasses.

[Eric Sermon]

Okay.

Yo, yo. But people don't want to do that because they like, this is what I heard from some artists. I'm gonna mention his name. Somebody just said, yeah, that's dope though. But I want people to hear my music worldwide. Nigga, you already famous.

Meaning that they want to put their music on the platforms so everybody can hear it. Yeah, you passed that already.

[Robyn Dixon]

But you know what, what some people get, you know, I could understand that artist because like, if you're. If your fan base is used to just getting it anyway, yo, it's so many subscription based shits going on. It's like, yo, I gotta ask for. They gotta pay for something else.

[Eric Sermon]

And somebody.

[Robyn Dixon]

And people, the fans, like, even in the Twitch chat, they always like, somebody always selling something. And it's like, you know, how many subscriptions do you want or can you pay for?

[Eric Sermon]

But, yes, but you work hard. We get up in the morning, we go to work, I press them buttons, I do all that shit. And all of a sudden somebody, would you buy something? Would you give away something for a penny?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Nah, I'm with you. I get it.

[Eric Sermon]

That's what I'm saying. Like, yo, I'm giving away something for less than $0.01.

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

Yeah.

[Eric Sermon]

That's all I'm saying now, like at this stage now, I'm selling my ship for less than a penny. No, I can't do that.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And it feels like robbery. When I hear artists say the music is the promo for the tour and the merch, I'm like, nah, you should be getting paid off the music too.

[Eric Sermon]

Charlamagne. I'm glad you mentioned that. That's. That right there is so true. That's to what they be saying, which is crazy. That's also crazy. No, makes no sense.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I went to the master pill shop the other day. I dropped some coins.

[Eric Sermon]

You did what?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Because they had the NAS Illmatic jacket. That shit's so fire, you know, Ghost Face, my favorite artist. So when you walking around the store, you like a kid in a candy shop, it's all of this different merch. You want the merch.

[Eric Sermon]

You know, certain things I did do, like next year I got Levi's, got the EPMD jacket, EPMD shirt. They signed Nas and they signed epmd.

[DJ Envy]

That's dope.

[Eric Sermon]

I did it for like jean jackets. Yeah, jean jacket. But I did it for.

The leverage of stuff. Knowing that there was no money. You know, I don't know. I don't know what Nas got paid, but they didn't give me a dime. Now, I'm Levi, I'm cool.

But again, the leverage of me having this and then being able to use that, everything's usually too, though. I know y' all all know about leverage.

[Robyn Dixon]

Yeah.

[Eric Sermon]

Leverage is the money will come, but certain things you do to get into the second door and the third door.

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

Yeah.

[Eric Sermon]

You know what I'm saying? So, again, at the end of the day, you know, Levi called people, you know, I'm like, hell, yeah, it. You don't give a fuck what it was. But, you know, they giving me two things. The shirt was just the first thing. It's like, oh, we want to give you a jacket too. Yeah, let's do that. It.

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

You know, so well, all this business success, I also saw you talk about the artists you could assign that you didn't sign. So, like, 50 Cent, Rick Ross, Akon Fujis, like, looking back at that now, like, first of all, how did you not think to just do the label and then keep all those artists close to your chest?

[Eric Sermon]

Because, you see, this is what I said on one of my posts that I'm sorry for. Keep repeating the stories. But then the beautiful lady asked again, so you're gonna hear it again for the third podcast. You know, at the time, I was just. I had my own groups, so I didn't look at, you know, what it was, what somebody else was doing. I had my own crew. The Hit Squad was my own crew. So when. When. When they was. When all of them was coming to me at the time, I wasn't, you know, focused on them like that. I. I kind of. Listen, man, the guy got him say, but not Envy. Going to know too. But no, back there is like two. He bought me the Fujis, whatever. I just wasn't at the time paying attention to it at the time, you know? But again, lucky I didn't, because Salon Remy, without that, probably wouldn't have heard the Fugees.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You know, none of those artists that you mentioned excited me. There's one artist that I always wish was with Eric Sermon and Hit Squad. Cannabis.

[Eric Sermon]

Yeah, he was with me.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I know. But I wish he would have stayed with y' all and did his debut album.

[Eric Sermon]

I know we have.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

We'd be having a whole other conversation.

[Danny Shapiro]

But.

[Eric Sermon]

But again, Ross was bought me to me by Tony Draper, you know, and. And he was Teflon, so I did put him on the 99 album as Teflon though, you know what happened with cannabis?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Why didn't that, why didn't he stay with you?

[Eric Sermon]

He signed Wyclef so he just. Oh yeah, yeah. But again, yeah, the money, the money was offered, I think it was like a million dollars, something like that was offered to him.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You know, I wouldn't have took the money. Take the sound. Yeah, that sound would have been totally different.

[Eric Sermon]

But all those groups, the Wu Tang's, the whole 9:2 again. Bernard, his father had a church in Staten island, you know, for over 30 years. And he took me to the whatever project he was at, whatever. And I met all of them. There's a picture, I told you that's out Park Hill. There's a picture that's out with me on my IROC with all them on it. You know, it was out there somewhere. Now we can't find it. But. But again, you know, I was really going to sign Raekwon by himself first, but again time go by, you know, and I ended up getting robbed and stuff now. So they got you back. They got it, you know.

[Robyn Dixon]

So with this album is titled Volume one. You got other volumes coming.

[Eric Sermon]

Yeah, volume two is coming though too. And I just like looked at. It's kind of crazy because I played a Locks record by mistake on the. On another podcast on. You know, on his podcast on Joe and Jada. Yeah. And I didn't know that they were going to keep it. So it's playing. My daughter said, yo dad, what's up with the Locks record? I'm like, well, how you know about that? She said, oh no, it's on the podcast at the end. So at the end it played. So I had that as a surprise. I might be got to make something else if I don't get popular. But I already do cnn, you know.

[Robyn Dixon]

Oh, it's gonna get popular. Yeah, you number one in 49 countries.

[Eric Sermon]

Stop it. No, no, no. But, but I have all the stuff. Cnn, Black Star, you know. You know I was getting the locks. I told you before.

Damn it. Eight Ball, mjg.

Rayquan and Ghostface.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Helter Skeleton.

[Eric Sermon]

No, no, no, this is.

No, this is what? Whatever. Illegal.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Oh, you got illegal?

[Eric Sermon]

Yeah.

[Danny Shapiro]

Okay.

[Eric Sermon]

It's a, it's a. Don't forget it's 23 groups. Right. The reason why I put on Lil Wayne the Game and Conway is because I'm also doing making up dynamic Duels too. The Little Wayne is not on the one that you hearing, but they played that on Joe and Jay too. And that's also going I'm like, damn, I can't even bring the remix back. You know what I'm saying?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You know, Wayne and Birdman.

[Eric Sermon]

Yeah, yeah.

[Danny Shapiro]

But.

[Eric Sermon]

But no. What about Big Timers?

So. So people ask me too, where's the south groups? You think I don't want to get. You know. You know, ugk, Pimpy's not here. Think Want to get Outcast, if I could. This is impossible to get those. So, yeah, you know, I didn't want to go all New York. I used three West Coast. I did Dog Pound, Snooping, the Nate Dog, and Cypress Hills. In the game, you know? In the game. Yeah. Four. Right. So. But I didn't want to go all East. I could have went that way because my first thing I wanted to get was Slick Rick and. And Dougie. I wanted to make another show part two, just differently, you know, just. I had it. I called them first and nice and smooth. I. Again, I didn't. I couldn't get Smooth. I couldn't get the. The things going at the time. But. But I want to do.

Common and. And. And.

Oh, my God, Blackstar. I got. Yeah.

[DJ Envy]

Is it Common?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Common who?

[Eric Sermon]

Black Dog?

[Danny Shapiro]

Okay.

[Eric Sermon]

So I want to make my duos put them together, though, too, and make sure. Hey, Envy, you know what? I was playing the Stylus P record on your album. Yo, that beat was. Yo, yo, way before it's time. Tough. Okay. Is there anything. Listen, Charlie, Eric was supposed to sign me. Listen.

[Robyn Dixon]

Oh, you're supposed to sign him?

[Eric Sermon]

Yes. Listen, I need you to. Yo, this right here is going to sound crazy, though, but I need to make sure that we got clickbaits. So start something up real quick.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

As soon as you sat down, all of the young people here, when they talk about the Diddy doc, they be like, yo, man, I ain't know Diddy was messing with dudes. So they be like, Lil Rod, Kurt, Eric, Sermon. I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You ain't watch the doc if you say Eric.

[DJ Envy]

I never heard nobody say. Nobody said no, Eric.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

It's just the perception of the DOC because the guy that. No, I'm serious. Listen to me, Eric. Eric, listen to me.

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

Is crazy.

[Eric Sermon]

I'm not even. I'm not mad. He my friend, but this. I'm not. I'm not even mad. This is him. I'm not even mad.

Right.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You know what?

[Eric Sermon]

Listen, listen. I don't want to be the interview where it was like, okay, like, y' all have the biggest stars in America and, like. And like. And have the people up Here that be saying some other shit that you.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Got a story already. You don't have to.

History.

[Eric Sermon]

You good. Let me. Let me do. Listen, man, what you about to do? I need to have the click. I need the. To be. I need something.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

There was another young Eric. There's another young boy up here that was talking, and he was just talking about the diddy dock. And he was like, yeah, man, dude didn't pay the producer 250, 000. And the producer say, sometimes he woke up with girls, sometimes he woke up with boys. And I'm like, what's the producer? He was like, eric, sermon. I said, no, that was Lil Rod.

[Eric Sermon]

Oh, you said that?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yes, that's what I'm trying to say.

[Eric Sermon]

These young people. Yo, listen, Solomon, I'm going to believe you for a quick second.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You just told me to make up some clickbait. You just told me to make up some shit.

[Eric Sermon]

Now you think you believe it, but the document is going to say that, though. No, that's my point. Why you giving me.

You don't even know I'm doing clickbait. Okay, my bad.

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

Okay. All you trying to do is address it.

[Eric Sermon]

Let's get into a record on that.

[Marcus Grant]

What you want to hear?

[Robyn Dixon]

Eric is so funny.

[Gisele Bryant]

It.

[Eric Sermon]

Oh, man.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Let's do sidewalk Executives.

[Eric Sermon]

Manop.

[DJ Envy]

All right, let's get into it now.

[Eric Sermon]

E dou.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

We appreciate you for.

[Eric Sermon]

No, listen. No, cuz Charlamagne is not being fair. This right here is. That's a cool one. But now you usually do a lot more and I feel like I'm getting shorted. But.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Icon, you have real story.

[Eric Sermon]

I was here back with 1997.

[DJ Envy]

You wasn't here. No, 97.

[Eric Sermon]

I was here 99.

[DJ Envy]

I got 199.

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

You said it was stories you. You told in a doc that didn't make it. Tell us one of those stories.

[Eric Sermon]

Oh, no, no, I can't. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Robyn Dixon]

What's the other four?

[Eric Sermon]

No, I didn't do that. I'm not doing that. But. But je. I can't do that. Hey, Jess, listen. Jess, are you going to make me viral or you not?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

All right, here we go. I already did it earlier, but I'll say it again. When Diddy drove me around the corner.

[Eric Sermon]

Was he in the back seat behind you? Thank you. I love it. I love you.

I love you.

Peace. We love you. Thank you. We love you.

[Danny Shapiro]

Bye bye.

[Eric Sermon]

Thank you. Bye bye.

Wake that ass up early in the morning. The Breakfast Club.

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

This is an Iheart podcast. Guaranteed human.