← The Breakfast Club
The Breakfast Club
INTERVIEW: Good Mom Bad Choices Podcast Talk Uncensored Motherhood, Couples Retreat, Co-Parenting +More
00:49:19
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- [00:00]
Charlamagne tha God
Listen to me. This is Charlamagne tha God talking. If you're not on prime, you're missing out. Prime's not just fast free delivery, although that is definitely a big perk. It's a collection of excellent services that help you get more out of whatever passions you're into or getting into. Like right now I am really getting into past life regression therapy and there's so many books about it on Prime. So you can order books with prime or even listen to content on Amazon Music. Whether you're binge watching the latest on prime video, listening to music on Amazon Music or getting those last minute gifts dropped at your door with prime, same day free delivery with prime, customers get closer to what they care about. Whatever you're into, it's all on Prime. Visit Amazon.comprime now.
- [00:39]
DJ Envy
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- [00:58]
Just hilarious
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- [01:14]
Jon Stewart
Jon Stewart is back in the host chair at the Daily show, which means he's also back in our ears on the Daily Show Ears Edition podcast. Join late night legend Jon Stewart and the best news team for today's biggest headlines, exclusive extended interviews and more. Now this is a second term we can all get behind. Listen to the Daily Show Ears edition on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [01:41]
AJ Stephens
$1.4 billion in NFL quarterback Contracts the untold stories behind the biggest deals in football history I'm AJ Stephens, Vice President of Client Strategy at Athletes First Introducing the Athletes First Family Podcast, the Quarterback Series. My co host Brian Murphy, Athletes First CEO and I are sitting down with the agents who have negotiated contracts for Justin Herbert, Deshaun Watson, Dak Prescott, Tua Tugovailoa and Jordan Love. Listen to athletes first family podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [02:15]
Charlamagne tha God
Wake that ass up early in the morning.
- [02:17]
DJ Envy
The Breakfast Club Morning everybody. It's DJ Envy. Just hilarious. Charlamagne, the guy. We are the breakfast club. Lauren LaRosa filling in for Jess. And we got some special guests joining us today.
- [02:28]
Charlamagne tha God
Yes, indeed.
- [02:29]
DJ Envy
Season two of their podcast. On the Good Mom Bad Choices podcast, we have Erica Dickerson and Jamila Mapp. Welcome, ladies.
- [02:37]
Erica Dickerson
Thank you.
- [02:37]
DJ Envy
How y'all feeling?
- [02:39]
Jamila Mapp
Great. Feeling really good.
- [02:40]
Erica Dickerson
Yeah.
- [02:41]
Charlamagne tha God
I love the. The name of y'all podcast, Good Moms Bad Choices. What is. What does that mean?
- [02:48]
Erica Dickerson
You know, I think society has deemed women and moms in a certain light, and historically, we're not really allowed to make bad choices, but really bad choices are relative. You know, like smoking a blunt is a good choice for me, but for other people, that might be a bad choice, you know? So I think it really kind of just flips the narrative around what bad choices actually are and allows moms in particular to give themselves grace and prioritize whatever the fuck it is that they want to prioritize. It's funny though, because a lot of people really hated that name. All of our friends told us that.
- [03:19]
Jamila Mapp
Was a bad idea.
- [03:20]
Erica Dickerson
That was a bad idea. Why?
- [03:22]
Jamila Mapp
I don't know. Because I think bad choices and good moms don't go together. And you assume that that means something terrible. But, I mean, I'm sure we've all made some choices that some other person told you were bad, but they were actually fun or good or exciting. And sometimes you gotta make your own choice. And I think, you know, people put moms in a box. You can only behave a certain way, you can only dress a certain way. It's like you give birth and suddenly you're fucking Martha Stewart or something. But the truth is, is you had a baby because you had sex. So, you know, there's just like the humanness of it.
- [03:52]
Charlamagne tha God
That's what I thought it was. I thought when you saying the bad choice is the baby daddy.
- [03:56]
Jamila Mapp
No, not necessarily. Sometimes that's relative. That wasn't why we made the name. But did we make some choices that could have been better? Yes, but you learn from those choices and then you find a second baby daddy that's better.
- [04:13]
DJ Envy
He's still looking for the baby daddy.
- [04:15]
Lauren LaRosa
First of all, husband, that is true.
- [04:16]
Jamila Mapp
Yes. You gotta start there.
- [04:17]
Lauren LaRosa
Yeah. Well, man, wait.
- [04:20]
DJ Envy
You don't know what she wants.
- [04:20]
Charlamagne tha God
Okay, it gotta start somewhere. You find a man first, and then it evolves.
- [04:23]
Lauren LaRosa
You gonna let me know how to do that? You don't know what she wants?
- [04:25]
Charlamagne tha God
No, I don't know how to keep him in.
- [04:26]
Lauren LaRosa
Yeah, I'm shopping. Exactly. Don't mind him. What was I going. Dan, you made me. Oh, you said second baby. Sometimes people find a second baby daddy. I don't know you guys personally, and I'm new to watching and listening to your podcast, so forgive me. Or are you guys on the journey of finding the second baby daddy? Are you still with the first baby daddy? Like, where y'all in your journey?
- [04:46]
Erica Dickerson
Let me tell you about the journey.
- [04:47]
Lauren LaRosa
One is engaged. Okay.
- [04:48]
Jamila Mapp
I just got engaged last week.
- [04:49]
Lauren LaRosa
Okay.
- [04:50]
Jamila Mapp
So I have found my second baby, my husband. Congratulations. Yeah, congratulations. Yeah, thank you.
- [04:54]
Lauren LaRosa
Love that for you.
- [04:55]
Jamila Mapp
And I think that's another thing is, like, women, there's, like, the stigma that you have to say with your baby daddy or you're on. You're undeemed, unworthy, or unmarriable after you're a single mom. And it's just not true. It's not real. And, like, sometimes you gotta. You gotta do better the second time, and sometimes you gotta leave the first one for your happiness and for your peace, and that's okay.
- [05:14]
Charlamagne tha God
Can you walk us through the engagement? How long. How long were you dating the guy and all of that type of stuff? I just want to make Lauren feel bad about not having nobody.
- [05:19]
Lauren LaRosa
Jesus, you ain't gonna make me feel better. Because let me tell you something.
- [05:23]
Jamila Mapp
This is a hopeful story.
- [05:24]
Lauren LaRosa
Let's get back on you. Let's focus on you. So tell us about the engagement and how it happened, because I saw that trending last week on, I think it was Twitter. There was a girl that was like. And for all the guys that keep saying, just because you have a kid, nobody's gonna want you. My stepdaddy. DMs is lined up, baby.
- [05:38]
Jamila Mapp
And, you know, that was a big fear of ours. I think that was how we, like, kind of formed our podcast too. Is like, as black women, it's so like, the stereotype of being a single black mom is. Is. It's crazy, you know, like. And no, but no woman wants that, to be a single mom, but particularly for black women, there's this heavy burden of, like, oh, my God. And the truth is, is, like, you learn. You get better when you're a mother. You take. You get dating gets taken more seriously. I don't have time to play. I don't have time for bs, you know, I know what I need and what I want. So, yeah, I met my. My man four years ago. We dated for three years. He's from New York. I imported him to la, cuz LA men are not so great. But, yeah, we dated for three years. We lived together for two, and, you know, we've been engaged two weeks. So, you know, we did a little. I did the adult thing.
- [06:23]
DJ Envy
Congrats.
- [06:24]
Charlamagne tha God
Congratulations, man. Congratulations.
- [06:27]
Jamila Mapp
There's hope. Ladies.
- [06:28]
Lauren LaRosa
Why you keep looking at me?
- [06:29]
Charlamagne tha God
I'm not. Cause you in the room, looking across the table, making eye contact with everybody.
- [06:33]
Lauren LaRosa
Eye contact with Envy, not me. Okay, this podcast. What about you?
- [06:38]
Erica Dickerson
I have a partner. And so, you know, we're still. We're. We're not anywhere near where she's at, but it's. It's been a journey. You know, as a single mom, I think that, like you said, there's a lot of shame. I remember when I first, When I, When I, Me and my child's father broke up. I remember I joined Tinder and I always tell our listeners, like, new moms that are trying to get out there, I'm like, dating apps is the shit when you first, like, become single. Like, for me, I really needed the confidence boost because I felt so disconnected from my sexuality. I felt so disconnected from just my value in so many ways. And unfortunately, not fortunate. Well, unfortunately, unfortunately, I really did. I needed that confidence boost to being like, oh, swipe right. Okay, okay. But I think that for me in this, in this period, in this time and in my journey of being a single mom, I have learned through the people that I've dated, which, you know, things haven't worked out, but I've evolved so much and been able to, I think, manifest this person that I'm with now who accepts me holistically. Because one thing that we were told, and we've been told a lot because of our show and the content of our show, we talk about sex very candidly. We talk about our dating experiences very candidly. We talk about our bad choices very candidly. And you're not gonna find a man like that. No man's gonna marry that. You like your titties out. Like, you wear. You don't like shirts. Like, we literally.
- [07:58]
Charlamagne tha God
You don't like shirts that like crazy.
- [08:01]
Jamila Mapp
You don't like shirts.
- [08:01]
Erica Dickerson
She doesn't like shirts, you know, and her titty makes an appearance. I was like, bitch, they can't make an appearance today. Okay. The right titty likes to make an appearance. And. But there's a lot of. There's a lot of narrative around just being too confident and in your body and to you. Yeah, being to you. You have to compartmentalize yourself to be a wife, to be a high valued woman, which is a conversation that I feel like is. Has always Been part in. It's been on the Internet for a long time. But now women are pushing this narrative of being high valued women. And I feel like that's very dangerous and very violent against women, specifically when it's pushed by women. And so rest in peace, Kevin Samuels. The goddesses did their job.
- [08:41]
Jamila Mapp
Damn.
- [08:42]
Erica Dickerson
So I just feel like we're in a time now where women are realizing that their value is not linked necessarily to how they dress. Their value isn't linked to how they talk. It's linked to how deeply they've met themselves. And, you know, through this process, I've been able to meet myself. And I mean, we always talk about this. We're continuous in works of progress. Like, I ain't healed. Like, I'm very vocal about, like, where I'm at. And even with the women that we work with at our retreats, because we now we know we do international retreats with women. We've brought hundreds of women out of the country to do the work that we do. And it's really about that is meeting yourself, empowering yourself, finding your tribe. Me and Mila, we weren't friends when we started our podcast. Like, I saw her on the Internet, I judged her because her titties were out and we were both pregnant at the same time. And I had subscribed to this narrative of what motherhood was supposed to be like. Like, I couldn't smoke weed anymore, even though, like, my baby daddy was a rapper. Like, I was going to be put together and I wasn't gonna. Those parts of myself had to die. And I saw her and she triggered the fuck out of me. I was like, wow, she can show up as herself just as she is. Thankfully, my hating didn't deter me from.
- [09:51]
Lauren LaRosa
I was about to say, what was the first interaction like? Cause was the hate all the way gone or was it like, no.
- [09:56]
Erica Dickerson
Well, my friend kept posting her and I was like, who is this girl you keep posting? Like, none of my friends had kids. And so I was desperate. I was like, you know what, I need to meet her. She seems like she's cool. And so, you know, my friend was like, we're going to a bar tonight. You want to come and meet her? And which is like, so out of. I would never just go and try to, like, now I would, but I. At that time, I would never go out of my way to go meet a stranger friend at a bar. But I was desperate. I literally pumped in the car because I was. My daughter was three months old and went in to find Jamila. Cause I knew only had, like, 90 minutes before my mama started calling me and judging me for being out too early after giving birth and cornered her and was like, hey, I heard that you have a kid. My friend posted you on Internet. And she was like, yeah. And, like, she had also saw me on the Internet, made preconceived notions about me, my lifestyle, and what I do. And thankfully, we pushed past that. We pushed past the judgment, which I think a lot of times women, we have a hard time doing that. We judge each other so much, and we hold each other back. And so the work that we do on the podcast at the retreats in our book is really about bringing women together and understanding that we are so much stronger together.
- [11:01]
Charlamagne tha God
And, yeah, you said a lot of shit. Just not Erica that I want to talk about.
- [11:05]
Erica Dickerson
Okay, let's do it.
- [11:06]
Charlamagne tha God
I never heard somebody refer to dating apps and said that it gave them confidence. Can you expound on that a little bit?
- [11:12]
Erica Dickerson
Yeah. I mean, I was. I felt so unattractive in my relationship. I felt so undesirable in my relationship. I was. I was desperate for validation, and my partner was like, that's not my job. And granted, maybe that's not his job holistically, but I felt like, Nick, I just pushed out your baby. I'm feeling a little. I need some help here. And so when we broke up, I was really nervous to get on a dating app.
- [11:37]
Jamila Mapp
A.
- [11:37]
Erica Dickerson
Because, like, I was like, oh, my God, what if someone sees me on there? What if he sees me on there? But then it became kind of, you know, dating app is kind of like they've gamified it. So, you know, you're swiping and, like, people are, like, wanting to match with you. So I'm like, it's giving you confidence. Whether it's a false sense of confidence, it's the beginning. It's the path towards really believing it. And so for me, dating apps really led me into really feeling like, okay, I'm. I am desirable. Oh, I do deserve pleasure. Oh, I do deserve to be taken out. And so I think a lot of women, they don't know where to start. And I'm not necessarily saying that's where everyone's path needs to start, but for me, that was really healing for me. And in the path of this dating app is really. I think we always say, like, two moms walked in a bar and met each other. But really, the story began when I went on this dating app, and I ended up swiping on what I thought was A woman, because I was going both ways. And then I swiped, and it was. She was pictured with her husband. And I was like, why is this man in this picture? And I kept swiping. It was like. And then I read and was like, what? We're a couple looking to spoil someone special? And I was like, huh, okay. Well, this is something I always kind of wanted to explore with my cheating baby daddy, but couldn't trust him, so maybe now is the time. And so I did. And. And even in that exploration with this couple, I felt excitement, but I also felt shame because I'm a mom. So I was, like, going and having threesomes with this married couple and then going home and tucking my daughter into bed and being like, what life am I living? Is this okay? Like, I feel really good. I feel like I'm like, I feel confident. I feel excited about what's happening. But am I a good mom because of this? And so when I shared this story with Jamila and this was, like, maybe our second interaction, it really opened up the door for her to feel comfortable sharing with me. And I know it sounds silly, like a threesome brought you together, but. Yeah, actually, in conversation or not conversation. No, Calm down.
- [13:39]
Lauren LaRosa
No, I was just. When she said that, I'm like, whoa, hold on. Where did we just go?
- [13:42]
Charlamagne tha God
The dating app thing. It seems like it's the new school way of, like, putting on a nice dress, getting your head done, and going out to the club. Back in the day, when your man pissing you off, you go out to the club just to get the.
- [13:52]
DJ Envy
But you said your man didn't give you something. So the dating app. So y'all was still together. Y'all weren't together?
- [13:57]
Erica Dickerson
Oh, we weren't together.
- [13:57]
DJ Envy
Oh, but you still wanted him to give you that because you had just had his baby.
- [14:01]
Erica Dickerson
Yeah. I mean, I had gained a lot of weight in pregnancy, and so I just didn't recognize myself. I really needed my partner to empower.
- [14:08]
Jamila Mapp
Me in the end of the relationship before it ended. And that's where she left.
- [14:11]
Erica Dickerson
No, no, I wasn't on dating apps while I was with him. No.
- [14:14]
Jamila Mapp
For clarity.
- [14:14]
DJ Envy
And I always wanted. You know, when you have situations like that, and I'm sure you talk about it on the podcast, right? But when your child gets to, like, 15, 16, and they start clicking, is that a conversation you had beforehand? And you'd be like, I'll let them find out on their own.
- [14:27]
Jamila Mapp
My daughter, I think you need to warn your child. So in 2000, let me tell you, in 2020. Your mama had threesome. I'm just letting you know in case you read about it.
- [14:36]
DJ Envy
Just in case you read about it.
- [14:37]
Jamila Mapp
So in 2023, because, you know, in.
- [14:40]
DJ Envy
This day and age, they'll pull it right up like, we know your mama. We know your mama did this. It ain't like before where it was off the Internet. Like, I don't know nothing going on with my mom or my grandmama. Like, you just don't know.
- [14:49]
Jamila Mapp
I think it's.
- [14:50]
DJ Envy
But this age, our kids are know.
- [14:52]
Jamila Mapp
But I think that's been. Not that everybody. Your kids need to know your whole sex catalog. However, I think it's detrimental. Like, there is a. There is a misconception that parents, fathers included, are these perfect superhero people. And to our kids, we are. But I think most importantly, when our kids get of age and start exploring our catalog, first of all, I hope you have a lot of time. Babe. We have over 300 episodes. But I want my daughter to remember, like, my mom is exactly who the fuck she says she is. There's no gray area. She knows my titties be out. She knows who I am. She loves me. She respects me because I. I'm a great mother to her. So what I do sexually as an adult is never going to sway how she feels about me as an adult. I'm a. I'm a parent. I'm an adult, and I can indulge. And I'm. That's my rights, my birthright. Pleasure is my birthright, and it's medicine. And I don't like. That Is not a narrative that I intend on keeping that we intend on keeping from our daughters. So I think, like, the transparency a is like, has been medicine for us in our friendship and for our community, because other women are like, damn, I needed to know other women are smoking a blunt, and I'm not a terrible person. Oh, I needed to know other women are out here dating, and I'm not a terrible person. No, you deserve to live, and so do our kids. And I hope that we're setting that example and that our catalog is so much more than just, you know, the 50 probably sex stories that are in there, but that there's a. You know, there's a deep understanding of who we truly are.
- [16:12]
Charlamagne tha God
What is this titties out thing? Y'all keep talking about these titties out because. And I'm trying to make eye contact, but I'm like, she don't have her titties out.
- [16:20]
Lauren LaRosa
You know, they're in today.
- [16:21]
Jamila Mapp
They are in today. I.
- [16:22]
Charlamagne tha God
What is it? What does she mean? Like, you walk around shirtless or something?
- [16:25]
Jamila Mapp
Yeah, I do.
- [16:26]
Charlamagne tha God
Like, Like.
- [16:26]
DJ Envy
Like in public, shirt off?
- [16:28]
Charlamagne tha God
No, in.
- [16:29]
Jamila Mapp
Yeah. And I mean, where I can. I'm like, at my house. In her house. If we're in and we're on vacation, we travel a lot. My family, my friends know my titties will be out because it's usually a house that I live in or I paid for. My friends are my friends, and so I've created a community who are. Who are okay with that because I'm comfortable in my skin, and that's how I feel comfortable.
- [16:48]
Charlamagne tha God
Did you have a traumatic experience with.
- [16:50]
Jamila Mapp
A shirt or a turtleneck when I was in fourth grade really overcame my neck.
- [16:57]
DJ Envy
I want to go back to the bad choices. We were talking about the bad choices, right? So all the bad choices are parenting choices. Are they men choices or all of the above, Right. Because I always say. I have six kids. I always say the first two are like the guinea pigs, right? Because you got to learn what to do, what not to do, and then the next four, you kind of get. So what are the bad choices?
- [17:14]
Jamila Mapp
I mean, there's definitely some bad choices. And I think, like you said, the first two are guinea pigs. Like, everything's trial and error, and hopefully you learn. And I think that is the thing in bad.
- [17:23]
DJ Envy
I still ain't learning. No, we still. Yeah.
- [17:25]
Lauren LaRosa
I mean, apparently you got six of them.
- [17:27]
Jamila Mapp
From zero to six, it got better. And that's the thing. We're. We're ever evolving, and, you know, and, like, you. You trip, you fall down, you get the back. That. That is life. And we don't talk about that enough. We only show the result. And, like, the bad choices sometimes are. Are bad. Actually, really bad. And then you. You can, you know, re. Re.
- [17:44]
Erica Dickerson
Hopefully they lead to better choices.
- [17:45]
Jamila Mapp
Realign. Like, okay, that was fucked up. I did too much this way. It's a constant sway of balance, and that is how you get better, by acknowledging what you've done and being. And being able to have conversations and reflect upon it. But if you don't have friends that you could be honest with and be like, bitch, I had this threesome. I probably shouldn't have left last night. You know, she can't be like, girl, get it together, because we're. We're so afraid to be judged. But if you can say the thing, then you can. You can be better from it.
- [18:09]
Lauren LaRosa
Erica, a question for you. I know you, and only because you mentioned this earlier, I know what your kid's dad with Freddie is a little bit different for you too, because he's an artist. Like, people know Freddie Gibbs, right? How do you deal with the judgment? Because yours is, like, probably 50 times more. Because your relationship and everything that happened out of it was so public. Like, is that harder for you? Is it harder to talk about? Is it, like, how does it.
- [18:32]
Erica Dickerson
No, it's not hard for me to talk about. I mean, early on in the show, it was. I mean, when we started the podcast, I was relatively, like, maybe five months out of our breakup.
- [18:41]
Lauren LaRosa
Whoa. How did. You were mentally okay enough? Your breakup was pretty.
- [18:45]
Erica Dickerson
No, I was not okay, which is why I need to sit with this bitch and talk.
- [18:48]
Lauren LaRosa
Okay, so wait, so back it up then. Talk me through that. So you're five months out of. You were engaged. Y'all just welcome your baby. Then you find out there's a. Another woman, another baby. Then you decided to go get on a public platform and start a podcast. What was your thinking around that? And, like, mentally, outside of just talking to her, what else did you do to be able to get through that? That's rough.
- [19:07]
Erica Dickerson
You know, I didn't have a lot of thought, honestly. People ask us why we started the show. It was really. I just needed someone to talk to. And I had started listening to podcasts, actually, really murder mystery podcast. And then I started looking up podcasts in the, you know, single mom podcast, black podcasts. At the time, there were really none. Like, the spirit. The space has changed and evolved so much. But before that, it was like, white moms drinking wine, calling their kids assholes, and, like, nerdy white guys, like. And murder mystery shit, which is why I was there. And so, you know, I felt like, wow, this space is wide open. I wonder if, like, my friend that I just met, because I didn't know Jameela really at all would want to sit and, like, let's just talk about being single moms. And then as we started talking and just being vulnerable, things just started pouring out.
- [19:55]
Jamila Mapp
She told me this story, and I.
- [19:56]
Erica Dickerson
And, yeah.
- [19:57]
Lauren LaRosa
Oh, about the. The threesome.
- [19:59]
Jamila Mapp
And I immediately was intrigued because I. We'd hung out, but it was very surface, and I was like, oh, this is kind of spicy.
- [20:04]
Lauren LaRosa
Okay.
- [20:04]
Jamila Mapp
I kind of like her. I was like, okay, I can kind of get with this. Because at first it was very like, how are you liking motherhood? It's great. I love it.
- [20:10]
Lauren LaRosa
Yeah.
- [20:10]
Jamila Mapp
You know, and not being real. And when she said that, it immediately made me feel close to her. And I asked her at that moment, I said, okay. I'll do the podcast. I don't even know what the fuck that is. Like a radio show. I was like, but are you gonna tell the story about your couple? And. Because that's the only way I could do it on or off. I don't really have a gray area. And she was like, okay, black couple or white couple?
- [20:28]
Erica Dickerson
Black and white. Oh, black woman, black and white husband.
- [20:32]
Charlamagne tha God
Oh, Dr. Umar would be so disappointed. Dr. Umar was like, this white man got three queens. Three or two.
- [20:42]
Erica Dickerson
But like, his wife is beautiful. Yes.
- [20:44]
Lauren LaRosa
But like, putting that into perspective for you of that, I guess, being like a liberating experience. And you start this podcast, you have this friend now, this homegirl who can support you in a different way. Because was your first mom friend, you said, Right. How did you guys talk through? Even you talking to your daughter eventually about, like, what you went through and your decision to put on a podcast?
- [21:01]
Erica Dickerson
Well, well, to go back to your original question, I think that I didn't really give a. Because he didn't really consider me at all.
- [21:09]
Lauren LaRosa
Right.
- [21:10]
Erica Dickerson
So I didn't really have a lot of consideration for. For him. Although I did protect. I did protect him a lot. I didn't share a so much until, like, maybe like a year in, like, because I. I wasn't. It wasn't confirmed even for a while, even when I was recording the show, whether, you know, this was his child or not. And, you know, as I started to share more, I. I felt empowered because a lot of women were writing in and telling me, me too.
- [21:35]
Lauren LaRosa
Been there, done that.
- [21:35]
Erica Dickerson
Yeah. And so when you have that support, you feel more brave, you know, And I feel like that's why our show has been so successful is because we've been really brave in sharing our testimony and sharing our truth. And with that becomes the community. With that comes the support. And so I felt very supported. And luckily, we haven't. People always ask us, like, have you gotten a lot of backlash on your show? Not really. Like, we have a very supportive community of men and women. And so, you know, obviously me and my child's father, our relationship has evolved over the years. We're cool, we're co parents, you know, but there was a lot of hurt, there was a lot of anger, there was a lot of confusion, and I really needed a place to heal. And honestly, behind the mic was healing. Sharing stories and talking is a major form of medicine. Yes. And even when I step away from the mic for too long, I kind of miss it. I'd be like, damn, I got some shit to Say, I gotta get this off, you know? And so. I'm sorry, what was the second question?
- [22:27]
Lauren LaRosa
I think just having her as a support system. I don't have a kid, but I've been through the whole my person having a baby with another person, and I decided to stay after, and it was really tough because you don't have people that really understand it. So you as a friend, my question was, what was that support system like, just having another mom that's like, yo, I got you. And we publicly doing this together. Like, what was that like?
- [22:46]
Erica Dickerson
Yeah, I mean, we were kind of in similar spaces. We met each other, like, I always say, like, God just. It was God's timing. We met each other at very crucial moments in our motherhood. She was just. She had just broken up with her child's father. I had just broken up with mine, and it was like, bitch, we outside. So, like, the first two, three years of our show was really about, like, our. Just all the things, all the journeys, and, like, rediscovering ourselves as these new women, as these new. As mothers, but mostly Erica and Jameela. Like, who are we outside of just that? And then how do we come back to motherhood and be able to nourish our children and be good moms? So I think just being honest, really saying the thing, and even in our friendship, like, our friendship has gone through trials and tribulations as well, and we've been vocal about that on our podcast as well. And just saying the thing has been, I think, really important because specifically, women. We're really quick to cut off women if they irritate us or they say the wrong thing or they're doing too much, you know, and that's just not. That's just. This has been, honestly, like, the best relationship I've had. It's also been one of the most challenging relationships I've had because we always talk about our friendship as platonic. We're in a platonic marriage. Our kids, you know, travel together, they go to camp together. We share bank accounts. Like, I've made more money than with her, than anyone in my entire life, you know, and share bank accounts is real.
- [24:07]
Lauren LaRosa
Y'all real friends? Yeah. I mean, we have even in it still. I know business. Business partners who still. They have a business account, but, like, they keep their little stashes.
- [24:15]
Jamila Mapp
I mean, we have separate accounts, but most of our accounts be together. Yeah, we do a lot of things.
- [24:19]
Erica Dickerson
And I think we realized when we started to just be honest and tap into ourselves, we. We were the most Successful we had ever been. Like, all of our.
- [24:27]
Jamila Mapp
Honest.
- [24:27]
Erica Dickerson
Yeah. All of our businesses have our. All three of them are very successful. And I think a lot of that is a testimony to us being honest with one another and. And sharing and. And also, I think when you start tapping into your pleasure and when I say pleasure, because I think pleasure also gets a bad rap. People always associate pleasure with sex.
- [24:47]
Lauren LaRosa
Yeah.
- [24:47]
Erica Dickerson
But pleasure is a full spectrum of emotions. It's everything. It's grief, it's shame, it's love, It's. It's all the things. There's a journey that you go on, and there's a healing that happens that opens you up and expands you. And you become a better mom, you become a better businesswoman, you a better wife, you become a better girlfriend. Like, all these things start to unlock in yourself. And like, I think for us, it became just like this ritual weekly doing that. And so, I mean, Jamila's my best friend. She's my sister. She's my platonic wife. Although I don't know if I'm supposed to give up that title now that you're going to be a real wife.
- [25:18]
Jamila Mapp
Never. Never.
- [25:20]
Charlamagne tha God
Purple.
- [25:21]
Jamila Mapp
It's very.
- [25:23]
Charlamagne tha God
What is a sexologist and tantric practitioner? Because that's what y'all are, too. That's what y'all. That's what your retreats are about. Right?
- [25:28]
Jamila Mapp
I know, I. Retreats. I mean, somewhat. Yeah. Tantra is about, like, starting the dialogue with your body, using pleasure as medicine, like she said. I think a lot of times people think pleasure is just like sex. You're just solely in the bedroom. You lock the door, you turn the lights off. You don't talk about it. But there's pleasure in all things, right? Like, you probably. I saw you with your little Snuggie on this morning.
- [25:47]
DJ Envy
I was cold.
- [25:48]
Jamila Mapp
But you. You know, like, sometimes there's those things.
- [25:50]
Erica Dickerson
That just like lighting a candle, setting.
- [25:52]
Jamila Mapp
The vibe, eating a good meal. And like, I think sometimes we reserve those intimate pleasures for, like, you know, we just put everything in a box. And so it's just like. It's a. It's a practice, a spiritual, like, technology that is like a practice of being in tune with your pleasure and not like removing. Not removing the divinity from intimacy and from sex, you know, because it's very. It's given to us by God. And I think it's just about teaching and practicing other people to do that too.
- [26:19]
Charlamagne tha God
That's what. That's. That's the definition of tantra.
- [26:21]
Jamila Mapp
The definition of tantra is weaving sound and Light.
- [26:25]
Lauren LaRosa
So, like, how you play good. Well, see, that's going back to sex. I was gonna say, like, how you play a good playlist and, like, you set the mood. But that's going back to.
- [26:31]
Jamila Mapp
Well, it's like sounding like with form, right? So it's like, it's. It's literally like compounding all. All the things. All the things that bring you pleasure and weaving them together and understanding, like, the whole. The totality of it. One thing is not just here. Sex and pleasure, not just here. This is not just here. It's all in. It's all blurry. It's all watercolors.
- [26:50]
Charlamagne tha God
When you said that, I envisioned like a candle lit and like you smoking a blunt and the smoke is going. But then, like, some music might be playing.
- [26:56]
Lauren LaRosa
Like, all of that lights.
- [26:57]
Charlamagne tha God
Like, the vibe. It's fine too.
- [26:59]
Jamila Mapp
Like, yeah, like, whatever is gonna, like, interact with all your senses, your taste, your sound. Like, like you said to sound bath, too. Yeah, yeah.
- [27:07]
Erica Dickerson
And, you know, we're actually doing our first couples retreat in June, which is.
- [27:12]
Charlamagne tha God
June 14th in Costa Rica.
- [27:13]
Lauren LaRosa
So I have a person or you meet the people there. You got to have a person to go to that, right?
- [27:17]
Erica Dickerson
Yeah, this one. But I was thinking. I was think dat like a matchmaking situation. Singles I threw. You know, by then you might have one. But you know what? I encourage people that are just starting to date to come to. To. To tap into these type of experiences as well, because it really helps set the foundation for the rest of your relationship. Like, don't wait till you have some up going on your relationship to be like, let's. We need to go on a retreat.
- [27:40]
Lauren LaRosa
But how do you know?
- [27:41]
DJ Envy
You got to find a man first before.
- [27:42]
Lauren LaRosa
First of all, it is a couple's retreat. No, what I was about to say is, if you got a couple, how you know which one like or which.
- [27:49]
DJ Envy
Dude you want to take?
- [27:50]
Lauren LaRosa
Yeah, how I'm gonna lean in?
- [27:51]
Jamila Mapp
You always know.
- [27:52]
Lauren LaRosa
No, you might have, like, one in a good one in a possible, right? But it's like, then you lean in the wrong way too much, and then that messes up and you done went to the cup.
- [27:58]
Charlamagne tha God
You're telling on yourself for four days.
- [27:59]
Lauren LaRosa
And now you can't talk to the other one?
- [28:01]
Jamila Mapp
Wait, what happened?
- [28:02]
Charlamagne tha God
She's telling on herself.
- [28:04]
Lauren LaRosa
How do you know which one to go? Like, how am I bringing you to this couples retreat? It's gonna isolate just me and you for these days and cut off my conversation to any and everybody which nigga.
- [28:13]
Charlamagne tha God
To bring to the couple retreat. She got Two is what she.
- [28:15]
Lauren LaRosa
No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm asking for women who are dating multiple men.
- [28:20]
DJ Envy
If I'm the possible, I'm. I'm super upset.
- [28:24]
Erica Dickerson
Who is number one on the roster? That's who you bring.
- [28:26]
DJ Envy
She don't know.
- [28:27]
Erica Dickerson
That's who you bring.
- [28:28]
Lauren LaRosa
I don't even have a roster.
- [28:31]
Jamila Mapp
There's never a solid tie. I've had many rosters. There's never a solid tie. It's always someone you want to spend more time with and the other one's just available.
- [28:40]
Lauren LaRosa
Have you guys ever had someone come. This is your first couple retreat or you doing another one?
- [28:43]
Erica Dickerson
It's our first one.
- [28:44]
Lauren LaRosa
Okay. I was gonna say, but if somebody shows up with the person you're not supposed to be there with, how do you guys handle that?
- [28:48]
Questlove
Like the new year is here and you want to stay locked in on whatever you're into. Amazon prime is a cheat code. See, a lot of people think Amazon prime is just about getting those packages delivered faster than you can say I forgot to order that. But really, prime is not just one thing. It's all things. A place to stream movies and shows with Prime Video, Amazon Music and that free one day, same day delivery is everything you need to make make the season stress free. Picture this, you're watching Thursday Night Football in Prime Video and the friends are coming through. You need the last minute snacks and drinks. Prime's got you. You want to kick back and chill after the game. Prime Video's got the movies and shows to keep your night rolling. And if you want to wind down, Amazon Music's got the playlist to keep the vibe just right. So whether you're hosting, chilling, or just trying to make it through the hustle of the week, I know I'm doing all things above. Just know Prime's got your back. It helps you explore, discover, and get more of what you love all in one place. So visit Amazon.comprime to get more of whatever you're into. Whatever you're into. It's on Prime. Visit Amazon.com prime now.
- [29:57]
DJ Envy
The world is constantly changing. It's up to you to decide how to respond. Choose to be bold. To try something new. Choose to reinvent yourself. That's what Nissan did with the all new, totally reimagined kicks. The dynamic new exterior styling immediately announces that Nissan isn't messing around. The interior, a completely redesigned cabin with premium features like wireless Apple Carplay and a panoramic moonroof make driving a kicks immersive and exciting. And with new performance and safety features Like Intelligent all wheel drive, the Kicks is both fun and safer to drive than ever before. It is the dawning of a brand new era for the Nissan Kicks. Only one question remains. Is it a new era for you as well? Drive the all new reimagined Nissan Kicks.
- [30:38]
Just hilarious
Today Available Features Compatible device service and consumer activation of Nissan Connect Services package Required use only when safe and legal. Subject to third party service availability. For more information, see nissanusa.com connect legal Apple CarPlay is a trademark of Apple Inc. Intelligent all wheel drive cannot prevent collisions or provide enhanced traction in all conditions. Always monitor traffic and weather conditions.
- [30:54]
DJ Envy
AT&T has a new Guarantee because most things in life are not guaranteed. Like actually getting the rental car you requested or your wedding turning out just like you dreamed it would. And someone making another pot of coffee in the break room after drinking the last drop of the last one. Yeah, don't get me started. Not guaranteed. In a world where Nothing is guaranteed, AT&T is bringing something new to the table, AT&T is introducing a guarantee with connectivity you depend on, deals you want and service you deserve or they make it right. So if you want to know more about the AT&T guarantee, head to att.com guarantee AT&T connecting changes everything. Terms and conditions apply. Visit att.comguaranty for details. Sup y'all? This is Questlove and I'm here to tell you about a new podcast I've been working on with the Story Pirates and John Glickman called Historical Records. It's a family friendly podcast. Yeah, you heard that right. A podcast for all ages. One you can listen to and enjoy with your kids. Starting on September 27th, I'm going to toss it over to the host of Historical Records Nemeni to tell you all about it. Make sure you check it out.
- [32:06]
Erica Dickerson
Hey y'all, Nimini here. I'm the host of a brand new history podcast for kids and families called Historical Records. Historical Records brings history to life through.
- [32:17]
Charlamagne tha God
Hip hop, smash, slam, another one gone.
- [32:20]
Erica Dickerson
Bash, bam.
- [32:21]
Charlamagne tha God
Another one gone.
- [32:22]
Erica Dickerson
The cracker, the bat, and another. Each episode is about a different inspiring figure from history. Like this one about Claudette Colvin, a 15 year old girl in Alabama who refused to give up her seat on the city bus nine whole months before Rosa Parks did the same thing. Check it. And it began with me. Did you know?
- [32:45]
Lauren LaRosa
Did you know I wouldn't give up.
- [32:47]
Erica Dickerson
My seat nine months before Rosa? Get the kids in your life excited about history by tuning in to Historical Records. Because in order to make history, you have to make some noise. Listen to historical records on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [33:09]
Jamila Mapp
I don't know.
- [33:11]
Charlamagne tha God
Well how you know who's one and two?
- [33:12]
Jamila Mapp
No, I don't. We haven't, we haven't.
- [33:15]
Lauren LaRosa
But also like you, you get the vibe through like the different things that you're doing throughout the weekend that like I don't think y'all should mesh well.
- [33:21]
Erica Dickerson
Well for me, I'm not gonna do that. I'm gonna allow them to self discover and through the practices they're going to, it's going to be crystal clear. Very, very clyster clear, you know, but hopefully, you know, hopefully that's not the case, you know, and, and I know you don't have a partner right now, but we do have women's retreat, so we're actually zero.
- [33:41]
Charlamagne tha God
You have to reset it.
- [33:42]
DJ Envy
Vibe retreat.
- [33:44]
Questlove
There you go.
- [33:45]
Erica Dickerson
And we actually just released our dates for the summertime and we're actually doing a giveaway and we want, we're giving away a free spot. So if anyone listening is interested in coming to a women's retreat in Costa Rica, it and vibe retreat. This is really about really resetting your vibe, resetting your nervous system, tapping in, meeting a group of like minded women.
- [34:02]
Jamila Mapp
Manifesting the man of your dreams.
- [34:05]
Erica Dickerson
It's playful, it's healing, it's Jamila's titties will be out. There's. There is a lot of nudity at the retreats. Women are like, is it a nudist resort? No, we take over the property. We take over property so we have a pool and people. Women are just like, want to be confident in their body. Some women have literally never even walked around their house naked, you know, so this is a safe space for you to like explore all the facets of you. You don't have to do that. It's not a requirement. This is not a nudist retreat. I want to be clear. But this is a place for you to show up however it is that you want to. Whoever you are, when you're here in New York or wherever the hell or when you're with your homegirl that you've known since you were 12 and she's still holding you to this archaic version of yourself. When you come to the retreat, you can be whoever the you want to be. You can rebrand yourself, you can be the loudest girl in the room, maybe you're the quietest one at work, you know, and this is a place where I have seen such incredible, incredible transformations from the women, from the, from the, literally from the beginning when they walk on property to the end and, and then it keeps going. And not, not only that, the women stay connected.
- [35:05]
Lauren LaRosa
Right.
- [35:05]
Erica Dickerson
So you know, when the work that we do, we get so many questions of like, I don't have any female friends. I don't trust women. You know, I don't fuck with women like that. Well, you need to. You know, I don't think that's really an option now. Like, we really need each other. And so I'm excited because we are away a spot to our retreat. So if you're listening and you're interested, join our Patreon. And all the details are in our Patreon of how to enter the giveaway. And it's, it's an all expense paid trip minus the flight, but everything there, once you arrive, everything's handled for you. And that's the thing too is like, as women, we're such a doers, we want to like plan every little thing when you arrive. Me and Mila, Me and Mila take care of everything.
- [35:47]
Charlamagne tha God
So how do you subscribe to the Patreon?
- [35:49]
Erica Dickerson
What do you do? You go to patreon.com goodmomsbadchoices and then you will see all the details there. And once you just subscribe to Patreon, you get access to our Discord community, which is really like, that is like the most like rich, intimate tribe.
- [36:04]
Jamila Mapp
There's a lot of moms and women. There's men there too. But you know, it's a lot of honest talking and so it's like tender for friends.
- [36:12]
Charlamagne tha God
The reset plus vibe in Costa Rica, that's February 1st through the 6th.
- [36:16]
Erica Dickerson
Yeah, but that's done.
- [36:19]
Charlamagne tha God
Okay. Okay.
- [36:20]
Erica Dickerson
That's sold out. Yeah. This is in the summertime. So this is July 31st through August 5th. So it's the summer time. Get the babysitter. You have time. Stop making excuses. Come by yourself. 90 of the women, actually like 98 of the women come alone to our retreats. And I recommend it. Like I said, like, when you go on trips with friends, sometimes you feel like you got to take care of bitches. You feel like you can't be. You're like this new version you're trying to be.
- [36:44]
Lauren LaRosa
Who got friends like that?
- [36:46]
Jamila Mapp
Some people.
- [36:47]
Lauren LaRosa
That's crazy.
- [36:47]
DJ Envy
They're usually taking care of you. That's why you don't understand it.
- [36:50]
Lauren LaRosa
First of all.
- [36:50]
Erica Dickerson
It's true.
- [36:51]
Lauren LaRosa
It's like, girl, they all do.
- [36:53]
Erica Dickerson
People are always, you're always like, not You. But, like, women are always asking for permission. Like, do you want to go? Do you want. What do you think?
- [36:58]
Jamila Mapp
You don't want to go?
- [36:59]
Lauren LaRosa
You don't want to go?
- [36:59]
Jamila Mapp
If you don't want to go, I'll wait.
- [37:00]
Charlamagne tha God
You want more shots? You want shots?
- [37:03]
Lauren LaRosa
That's what your friends be asking.
- [37:04]
Charlamagne tha God
That's what you be saying all the time, over and over and over.
- [37:09]
Lauren LaRosa
You made a good point earlier about the mom friend. Her being your first mom friend. I have a friend who is the only one out of our friend group that has a kid. And I remember she was going through a point where she was trying to figure out mom friends. She has them now. And I used to be, like, why you want to have other friends? Like, we your friends. What can you talk about that discovery journey and, like, why that's important? Because I think she did need that now that I'm older. But then I was like, girl, who don't. People.
- [37:31]
Erica Dickerson
You've gone through this incredible rite of passage that you can't explain to anybody else. Like, you have to. It's kind of like you had to be there, you know? And I think sometimes, of course, like, the aunties matter, and we need the aunties all the time, but I think, like, when moms find their mom friend, it creates a place where there's, like, a very true understanding of where we're at, what we're doing, what we're dealing with. You know, the aunties only want to hear about you bitching about your kids so long. They're like, girl, she gonna come around and talk about this baby again.
- [38:02]
Lauren LaRosa
Oh, my God.
- [38:04]
Erica Dickerson
You know, So I feel like moms have a little more tolerance for that.
- [38:10]
Charlamagne tha God
So moms can't be aunties. Break that down for me. So.
- [38:12]
Erica Dickerson
No, no, no. They can. I was just saying that. I was just saying that she was asking about the mom friend situation. So I'm saying, like, that aunties matter, but, like, having a person that's actually going through the same thing, going through the same thing is. It's a different. It's a different type of support. Yeah.
- [38:28]
Charlamagne tha God
You know, it's interesting because, you know, I'm sure people judge y'all just because of the content. That's what they do. Especially in the podcast space. If you two black women and you're sexually liberated and you're talking about it, people judge. But the reality is y'all are just having conversations out loud that people have in private all the damn time. Like, mama gotta have a life, too.
- [38:46]
Erica Dickerson
Yeah.
- [38:47]
Lauren LaRosa
After the baby is here.
- [38:48]
Erica Dickerson
Yeah.
- [38:48]
DJ Envy
I gotta get the man first.
- [38:50]
Lauren LaRosa
No, I'm not talking about me. I'm talking about my friends that I make sure I have a good time that he was trying to play me about earlier. Mamas want shots too.
- [38:55]
Erica Dickerson
Mama wants shots too.
- [38:57]
Jamila Mapp
Mama needs shots more than videos.
- [38:59]
Erica Dickerson
Bring the shots.
- [39:00]
Jamila Mapp
Actually, I only have three hours. Let's go.
- [39:02]
Erica Dickerson
Oh, yeah. There's no one more drunk than a mom on a Friday night. On a Friday night without her kid.
- [39:07]
Jamila Mapp
Paying for a babysitter. This counts.
- [39:10]
Charlamagne tha God
How do you think y'all are breaking the old stereotype of pleasure deprived motherhood?
- [39:15]
Jamila Mapp
I guess, being an example. You know, I think like she said, like, we genuinely do give people permission and it's because sometimes you don't even. I think women don't even realize that it's an option to show up as yourself. When you hear two people and you're like, like, oh, oh, they did that. Oh, they're talking about it. That's crazy. Oh, she's talking about the threesome. And she's also talking about putting her kid in camp. You know, like, those are, those are real. It's real. But I think sometimes we, especially as black women, we actually need to see it done. We need to see, to have the permission or else we just automatically sweep it as all one thing. It's all bad because we've been told we've been given a lot of rules and like, unfortunately, black women have the most, you know, we have to fit into the square the most. A lot of white women can up. They could, you know, overdose and then host the Grammys the next day and everybody's fine. But black women, there's. We don't. And brown women, we don't get as much, you know, like, leeway. And so I think people, women genuinely needed to see us do the thing and hear about us during the thing to be like, oh, I could do that shit too.
- [40:11]
Charlamagne tha God
Absolutely.
- [40:12]
Lauren LaRosa
I read an Essence article on you guys and you talked about apologizing to your kid and how good that has been and how freeing that is. And we always had this conversation, me with my mom, like, I'd be like, you need to learn how to apologize. But you guys are doing it early. Why and how has it worked in your relationship with your kid?
- [40:28]
Erica Dickerson
Because I didn't get it. I didn't get no apologies, you know, and so, and I realized how. I realized that as. When. As I was. As I was evolving in motherhood. And I always tell people I'm a 10 year old mother. Like, I only know as much as I know of a 10 year old mother, you know, I'm new ish at this point. Maybe a little seasoned, not quite. But I've seen the power of apologizing. I've seen how much my daughter feels safe talking to me because her mom is willing to say, hey, I kind of fucked up. I'm sorry about that. Hey, I lost my temper. And I think a lot of times we've pushed things under the rug and like, all those things, they, you don't forget them as kids, you know, they. And then they show up in different ways in your life where you now have a problem apologizing. You can't acknowledge the things that you've done wrong. And now it's holding you back. And so I just didn't. I don't want that for her. And so I think it's really important for, for parents overall to, to get used to that idea. Not idea that, that. That thing and, and, and do that. And like, why wouldn't you, why wouldn't you want to apologize to your child if you know you fucked up?
- [41:35]
Charlamagne tha God
I do it all the time.
- [41:36]
Erica Dickerson
Yeah. And it feels good. It feels good to like, reverse whatever it is that, you know, didn't work for you. You know, I think about like, I had like a recent, like, parenting moment with my daughter because she was getting bullied at school, and I was like, oh, no, so we're here because I'm gonna beat all these little asses. I was like, okay, you can't do that. Don't do that, Erica, you can just record it. Well, now I'm on Breakfast Club talking about it, so it wasn't me. And you know, at first I was like, all right, I'm just gonna, like, talk to the school and have them deal with this because I don't know what to do. And then I was like, no, I have to face this head on. And so, you know, I was just. I, you know, I sat with her and talked to her and she had a really hard time telling me because I think she's. My daughter's gonna be 10. And right now in her life, like her. So her social circle is very important to her. You know, she's just building these friendships and like, it feels like her whole world. And so stirring the pot feels like it's not a, it's not a big deal. It's fine, you know, and so I was just empowering her to stand up for herself. And after that moment, like, us talking it through, I was like, damn, that was good.
- [42:47]
Lauren LaRosa
Yeah.
- [42:47]
Erica Dickerson
You ever had Those moments in parenting.
- [42:49]
Charlamagne tha God
You'Re like, yeah, I had one apologizing to my. She's 16. Apologized to her. I can't even remember what I apologize for. And she said, it's okay. This your first time doing this? Just meeting your first time as a father? Like, you know, I was 16 or so I was like, oh, okay, that.
- [43:03]
Lauren LaRosa
Would make me cry.
- [43:04]
Jamila Mapp
But it's true. Like, I don't know, we're winging it. You know, maybe you're a professional over here.
- [43:12]
DJ Envy
My girl goes from 23 to 3, so it's all over the game. It's all over. But, you know, I got lucky with a lot. Like, so I was an only child. So the bullying thing, I had to deal with myself as a kid being bullied. But see, they got siblings now. So where, you know, if my 10 year old, I got an 11 year old that's gonna go to the school and hold it down where it's not daddy, I could push it, be like, yo, go look out for your sister. But you know, some of those things I have, because we have those conversations. But I think the best thing is like you said apologies, right? My dad and my mom never apologized to me. If they were wrong, you ate it. Pause. But I think with me it's like, come here, let me talk to you. You know, dad was a little upset. This was the reason why this happened. And they respect you and look at you a lot differently and they're able to be free. Like, my kids have conversations with me that I'm surprised that they tell me stuff and I'm like, I'd, like, I would never tell my mother this, I would never tell my dad this. But they feel so comfortable and sometimes I gotta take a step back and be like, I have to understand, you know, which is great.
- [44:05]
Erica Dickerson
Well, and it's a testament that you're doing a great job. Envy, you know, if your kids are talking to you in that, it's a, it's those little like, like confirmations along the way. You're like, okay, I'm not up.
- [44:15]
Jamila Mapp
They're safe. They feel safe.
- [44:16]
Erica Dickerson
They feel safe. Yeah. And, and you know, it feels, it's like I said, it feels good to apologize to my daughter. And I've actually even said to her, listen, I, I'm. I don't really know what I'm doing. That's right.
- [44:25]
Jamila Mapp
And do things different, figuring it out. You know, we've only, we can only reference our parents, our parents parenting. And ultimately, like, they've, they could use some improvement. But if you don't have the space to, to like reflect and be like, okay, well this could have been better. And then apply it, you know, without. You have to be able to question what has happened in order to improve the systems. And, you know, it's true. Sometimes I'm reacting in a way. I'm like, why the fuck am I talking like this? I'm like, oh, that's how I was talked to. But then I have to pivot and shift and it takes work, you know, like mothering a child while also mothering myself, parenting myself, reprogramming myself is like, I'm sure you've all experienced it. Like, it's difficult. But it's necessary for our kids to inherit different habits. And so when they're parents, hopefully that we're changing generationally each time and getting better instead of just doing the same shit over and over again.
- [45:14]
DJ Envy
I think that was the most difficult to not do what my parents do. Right. My kids asked to go out. No.
- [45:19]
Erica Dickerson
Why?
- [45:19]
DJ Envy
Cause I said so. Cause that's what I heard. But then you have to come back and be like, well, let me explain why I think it's a bad idea. But as a kid you just took it because you was like, I'm not arguing with my mother and pops. But now you gotta come back like, well, the reason I really don't want you to go is because it's not a safe environment if you really think about it. This, that and the other, yada da. And it's like, damn, I'm really explaining myself to my 3 year old. But it is what it is, you.
- [45:38]
Jamila Mapp
Know, but now they feel respected as a human being because our kids are human beings, you know, And I think we forget that as parents because we weren't always treated that way. You're a child, you stay in your place.
- [45:47]
DJ Envy
Correct?
- [45:48]
Erica Dickerson
Yeah.
- [45:48]
Charlamagne tha God
Y'all have a book too Good. A Good Mom's Guide to Making Bad Choices. Explain why we. They need a guide to make bad choices.
- [45:55]
Jamila Mapp
You know, I think I. When we were writing this, I realized like, there are so many books about parenthood. Like, how do you care for your baby? How do you swaddle the baby? What do you do? You know, like, there's all these, these, there's all these things about how you care for a baby and there's rarely, there's no books really about how the. Do I care for myself after this huge thing that's happened, my body has changed, my life has changed. I'm, you know, implementing a new human and I'm caring for Something. And there's a lot of fear, there's a lot of anxiety in that that nobody talks about. And even for us, our book is. Talks about, like our journey in single parenting. There's a lot of mom experiencing that. A lot of mom's fighting it, like trying to put a square in a circle. Like, sometimes it just don't work. And that's okay. And so I think this book is really about the guide to finding yourself, whatever that is for you and being authentic in it. And also, like, how do you care for yourself in this process of parenting? Because there are no books about that. It's always about the child. And that's the thing about motherhood. It's so like, it has to be self sacrificing, but it doesn't and it shouldn't be. And that's really what the book is based in.
- [46:54]
DJ Envy
I wanted to ask, you know, did you ever resent your, your baby fathers? And the reason I ask is, you know, she said, you know, because if you really look back and I think Charlamagne could say the same thing.
- [47:05]
Charlamagne tha God
I never had a baby father.
- [47:07]
DJ Envy
No. I don't know what you've had. I don't know what you identify as. But, you know, if our wives ever leave the kids with us for a long time, you realize I really don't have control as a father. Right? Your wife does everything for you. And the fact that she has. And I always say the main thing that she has is patience. Right. I don't have the patience. But do you ever resent, like, he's not here, he's not here to help. I don't know if he was there or not there. He's not here to take to school. He's not there for that time where I just need a break and just say, you know what? I need a shot. Let me go walk around the block one time. Do y'all ever resent that? And if you did, how did y'all get over it?
- [47:41]
Erica Dickerson
It's a work in progress. I think that, you know, early on, of course there was more resentfulness. I think there's acceptance too. You just have to kind of accept the person you chose. And this is. This is it, you know, and then from there, build the tribe. And that's really what I've done. I have an incredible support system that will show up when he can't, you know, and granted, both of us have very busy careers. He's out of the country, out of town a lot. And so 98% of everything has fallen into My hands. So I would be lying to say there's no resentment like, or there hasn't been resentment. But I also just. I also like, have. Have to humanize him as well. If I'm gonna give grace to the women that I, that I serve and give grace to myself, then I also have to understand where he's at, what happened, like, where what wasn't, what needs were not met in your childhood, what things are you combat. Battling with that you're not confronting and avoiding, you know, and so that doesn't always come. Cause sometimes I wanna curse him out, but then I have to kind of bring it back and say, okay, well this work doesn't just to this. I have to be able to apply it to both. And, and it does my daughter. No, it doesn't. It doesn't do my daughter any, any benefit by, you know, me, you know, bad talking him, especially in front of her. I try my best to. For her to feel like we are still a family. You know, we pray, we pray for her dad, we talk about her dad. Like, I ask it, I ask even like, you know, he had another child. The reason we broke up was because he got another woman pregnant. And, you know, I never in a million years thought that I would be able to be like in the presence of that child ever. And I know there's a lot of women listening that have maybe experienced this or maybe going through this.
- [49:30]
Lauren LaRosa
My heart dropped because I know the feeling.
- [49:32]
Erica Dickerson
Yeah. And it was. I literally. I just. There was no way. I remember the first time he brought his son into my house, like, unannounced. And I was like.
- [49:40]
Lauren LaRosa
Did you cry? How was the. Did you cry? Like, what was your.
- [49:44]
Erica Dickerson
I didn't even know how to cry. I was frozen, you know, Like, I.
- [49:46]
DJ Envy
Did you say get?
- [49:48]
Erica Dickerson
Of course not. Because it's a baby.
- [49:50]
Lauren LaRosa
You don't want to react to the baby.
- [49:52]
Erica Dickerson
Yeah. And like, as a, as women, like, we are territorial around this role of mother and like this space that we share with this person, like, this is what we decided to do and this is an interruption. And. But, you know, but, but now, like, I have so much love for that child. You know, I wouldn't be a good mom who makes bad choices without that child. Like, thank you, baby mama, for, you know, breaking the family up. Because, because, no, truly, because I didn't know myself then. I was really like, living for him. And, and so I think that, like, to answer your question is just like, about. Or answer your question. It's just about, like, allowing grace and knowing that yes, there are times when I want to curse that man out, but also I love him because he gave me my daughter.
- [50:35]
DJ Envy
Gotcha.
- [50:35]
Charlamagne tha God
You know, what if the other child was a daughter who looked just like the woman that he had?
- [50:41]
DJ Envy
Jesus.
- [50:41]
Charlamagne tha God
The baby with the other.
- [50:43]
Erica Dickerson
That was a dog. Well, it's a son.
- [50:44]
Charlamagne tha God
I know, but what if it was a daughter who looked just like the woman who he had another baby with?
- [50:49]
Erica Dickerson
I don't think that would have. I don't. I mean, I probably would. I mean, again, like, it would probably been jarring at first, but, you know, like, I think that I would have accepted that as well. All of Freddie's kids look just. Look just like him, you know?
- [51:01]
DJ Envy
Did you have to have those conversations with the other mothers, like, hey, let's. Even though this is not the situation, but we all have kids, let them be siblings together or.
- [51:08]
Erica Dickerson
No, I only have rapport with one. And, you know, it's not because I don't want to. It's like I could reach out, I guess, but that just hasn't been my ministry yet. But there's no hate, there's no resentment. Like, we're all moms trying to do the best we can for our kids. And, you know, she made her choices, and all of them have made their choices because, you know, my. My baby daddy been busy with creating life since. Since our first one. But. Yeah, so.
- [51:44]
DJ Envy
And Jamila, you about resentment, if there was any, or No.
- [51:47]
Jamila Mapp
I know it's like she said, acceptance. You know, I. I knew who I had a baby with. I'm accepting of that. And then honestly, there is a level of.
- [51:56]
DJ Envy
I just sound so crazy. I knew who I had the baby with. So it is what it is.
- [51:59]
Jamila Mapp
I mean, it is. I know you gotta get to that point.
- [52:01]
Lauren LaRosa
And so what you gonna do?
- [52:02]
DJ Envy
You gotta raise the baby because you expect different, right? If you KN gonna be the situation, you would. Did something different, right?
- [52:08]
Charlamagne tha God
If your aunt had a penis, she'd be your uncle.
- [52:12]
Jamila Mapp
But there's. There's a level of pride.
- [52:15]
Erica Dickerson
Oh, yeah. I had to think about that hard.
- [52:17]
Lauren LaRosa
I think he's saying it is what it is. But I would say talk about that level of pride in. In that. Because the resentment can. That can cause some women to stay and y'all chose to step away.
- [52:26]
Jamila Mapp
Well, yeah, yeah. You could be resentful and you can let that shit like, fester, or you could walk away and move on and accept the person you had a baby with. And even in this chapter of my life, I'm like, you know, do what you Can. There's a lot of drop offs at the grandma's house, which, you know, if my child is safe and fed, I'm happy you're around. But I also find joy in like I am the primary provider. Hey, you gotta take the kid. I'm going to the breakfast Club tomorrow, traveling. You know, like, I, you know, I have won so much in this, like, I have evolved so much in this, this relationship with my friend and this brand and this business. Like, I have really discovered something that I wouldn't have been able to discover had I stayed in that relationship. So I'm grateful. I'm grateful for the, like, the awareness of myself to be like, this ain't gonna work. I can't see this forever. I'm out. And, and just honoring that and accepting him for who he is and accepting that that is not something that I can accept in my life in a romantic partnership and just letting it be because, you know, karma is a. And you have to deal with that with your child when she gets of age. Because we have kids who are very well aware, very intelligent. We never disrespect our child's intelligence. So we're honest in an age appropriate manner. And so I give, you know, I give you the love and I know that you are going to have to deal with that relationship as, as she gets older. And I, you know, good luck.
- [53:40]
Lauren LaRosa
Did the baby daddies ever come to y'all and apologize for what Envy's kind of referencing like that flack of like, dang, I'm sorry or I put you.
- [53:47]
Jamila Mapp
Through or denial, denial, denial.
- [53:50]
Erica Dickerson
If you ask them, they probably would would say they have. But I mean, you know, most dads.
- [53:56]
Jamila Mapp
Like, I'm doing great. Like, you haven't seen her in two weeks.
- [53:59]
Erica Dickerson
Our baby daddy tried to link up a few times, once and we were like, what the hell are they talking about? They were gonna start a podcast.
- [54:05]
Charlamagne tha God
Dad bad choices.
- [54:12]
Jon Stewart
That's right.
- [54:13]
Charlamagne tha God
That'd be a conflict of interest. I do have one last question, Erica. How did you break up with that couple that Dr. Umar wouldn't approve of? How did you not?
- [54:20]
Jamila Mapp
That's what Dr. Umar wouldn't approve.
- [54:21]
Charlamagne tha God
How did you break up with him?
- [54:23]
Erica Dickerson
You know, it became a thing because I real not I realized I knew this begin to begin with. I don't really. I'm not into white men. I'm just not. You know, I really, I was trying because they were cool and he was handsome. But I realized that over time, it just wasn't like I was more into his wife than I was to him. And I respect it too, because I.
- [54:45]
DJ Envy
Told him you tried to break up that happy home.
- [54:47]
Erica Dickerson
Well, no, I was not trying to break up the happy home. But she did ask me like, Erica, like, where you at? Like, you haven't been responding to, to the calls. Dah, dah. And I was like, honestly, like, I'm more attracted to you. And she was like, okay, thanks. And she cut it off. And I was like, respect. Wow. Like, respect. And that's why I really respected their dynamic. They showed me. I learned a lot from that relationship. I learned how much they loved, like, how expansive their love was for one another. I felt honored to be able to come into their relationship and, and, and spend time with them and then also peace out. But yeah, it was more so it was just like, and also like I wanted to, it was just, it was kind of like a, I got what I needed out of it and then I was done with it, you know, But I, but I have a lot of love for them and they're a great couple. They're still together to this day, but.
- [55:34]
DJ Envy
We appreciate y'all for joining. Make sure you subscribe Good Mom Bad Choices podcast on the Black Effect Network. Jamila Mapp Every Wednesday.
- [55:42]
Charlamagne tha God
Every Wednesday. They drop. So check them out.
- [55:44]
DJ Envy
That's right. It's the Breakfast Club. Good morning.
- [55:46]
Charlamagne tha God
Wake that ass up early in the morning. The Breakfast Club Foreign.
- [55:53]
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Jon Stewart
Back in the host chair at the Daily show, which means he's also back in our ears on the Daily Show Ears Edition podcast. Join late night legend Jon Stewart and the best news team for today's biggest headlines, exclusive, exclusive extended interviews and more. Now this is the second term we can all get behind. Listen to the Daily Show Ears edition on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [56:55]
Lauren LaRosa
What if you ask two different people.
- [56:57]
Erica Dickerson
The same set of questions? Even if the questions are the same, our experiences can lead us to drastically different answers. I'm Minnie Driver and I set out to explore this idea in my podcast, and now Mini Questions is returning for another season. We've asked an entirely new set of guests our seven questions, including Jane Lynch, Delaney Rowe, and Cord Jefferson. Listen to Mini questions on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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AJ Stephens
7 Questions Limitless answers $1.4 billion in NFL quarterback Contracts the untold stories behind the biggest deals in football history I'm AJ Stephens, Vice President of Client Strategy at Athletes first, introducing the Athletes First Family podcast the Quarterback Series. My co host Brian Murphy, Athletes first CEO, and I are sitting down with the agents who have negotiated contracts for Justin Herbert, Deshaun Watson, Dak Prescott, Tuathungavailoa, and Jordan Love. Listen to Athletes First Family Podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.