INTERVIEW: Gov. Wes Moore Calls Out Congress, Talks Kilmar Abrego Garcia, Enriching Black Businesses + More

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Breakfast Club – INTERVIEW: Gov. Wes Moore Calls Out Congress, Talks Kilmar Abrego Garcia, Enriching Black Businesses + More

Episode Details:

• Title: INTERVIEW: Gov. Wes Moore Calls Out Congress, Talks Kilmar Abrego Garcia, Enriching Black Businesses + More
• Host: The Breakfast Club with DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, and Charlamagne Tha God
• Release Date: May 2, 2025

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of The Breakfast Club, Governor Wes Moore of Maryland sits down with hosts Charlamagne Tha God, Jess Hilarious, and Lauren LaRosa to discuss a range of pressing issues. From economic strategies and racial wealth gaps to criminal justice reforms and confrontations with the Trump administration, Governor Moore provides insightful perspectives on his governance and national politics.

Economic Strategies and Maryland’s Success

Governor Moore opens the discussion by highlighting Maryland’s robust economic performance despite federal challenges. He emphasizes the state’s strategic approach to job creation and economic diversification.

Gov. Wes Moore (01:05): "Maryland has gone on 14 straight months of among the lowest unemployment rates in the entire country, with an unemployment rate of 3.3%, well below the national average."

Moore attributes Maryland’s success to aggressive budgeting, strategic cuts, and investment in new industries such as life sciences, IT, aerospace, and defense. He underscores the importance of state-level initiatives in fostering economic growth without relying on federal approval.

Gov. Wes Moore (03:26): "The money comes from building coalitions with the private sector and being creative about our partnerships."

Racial Wealth Gap and Support for Black Businesses

A significant portion of the interview delves into Moore’s initiatives to address the racial wealth gap in Maryland. He discusses policies aimed at supporting minority-owned businesses and ensuring equitable distribution of state resources.

Gov. Wes Moore (08:30): "We've passed the most comprehensive procurement reform bill in Maryland's history, allocating over $3 billion to Black businesses and Minority Business Enterprises (MBE). Now, 86% of all Maryland contracts require MBE participation."

Moore also touches on criminal justice reforms, including the largest mass pardon in U.S. history for misdemeanor cannabis convictions and comprehensive expungement reforms to give individuals a second chance.

Gov. Wes Moore (09:52): "We've signed the largest mass pardon in U.S. history, 175,000 pardons for misdemeanor cannabis convictions, and the most comprehensive expungement reform Maryland has ever seen."

Critique of the Trump Administration

Governor Moore is openly critical of the Trump administration, particularly its executive orders and handling of federal agencies. He emphasizes the limitations of presidential power without Congressional support and calls for stronger state-level responses.

Gov. Wes Moore (04:43): "Donald Trump has over 150 executive orders, most of which fall into being ineffective, performative, or illegal."

Moore argues that Trump’s actions, such as attempts to eliminate the Department of Education, are unconstitutional and highlights the disconnect between federal policies and state-level governance.

Gov. Wes Moore (07:14): "Donald Trump is violating the Constitution by not allowing due process. He cannot unilaterally eliminate departments like the Department of Education; that's Congress’s role."

Kilmar Abrego Garcia Case and Due Process

A focal point of the conversation is the case of Kilmar Abrego Garcia, whom Moore defends based on constitutional rights. He stresses the importance of due process regardless of an individual's immigration status.

Gov. Wes Moore (19:29): "Due process matters. Garcia needs to come home and stand trial, not because of Trump's arbitrary decisions."

Charlamagne probes further into the implications of Garcia’s case, prompting Moore to reiterate his stance on upholding the Constitution above presidential whims.

Gov. Wes Moore (21:53): "The Constitution still offers guidance on federal and state responsibilities. We must follow due process."

Collaboration with Local Leadership

Governor Moore praises the collaborative efforts with Baltimore’s Mayor Brandon Scott, highlighting Maryland’s overall positive trajectory in economic growth and reduction in violent crime.

Gov. Wes Moore (11:31): "Baltimore is generating the seventh fastest-growing economy in the country, and we're seeing historic drops in violent crime."

He credits this success to intentional investments and strategic partnerships that prioritize the state's most significant urban centers.

Criminal Justice and Public Safety Initiatives

Moore discusses Maryland’s comprehensive approach to public safety, including funding for local law enforcement, violence prevention programs, and support for offenders seeking rehabilitation.

Gov. Wes Moore (32:24): "Our Second Chance Act isn't automatic; it allows people to petition for a second look, ensuring those ready to reintegrate can do so."

He addresses concerns about public safety by balancing second chances with stringent measures for those convicted of serious crimes.

Personal Reflections and Leadership Philosophy

Throughout the interview, Governor Moore shares personal anecdotes that shape his leadership style. He emphasizes authenticity, resilience, and a deep connection to the people of Maryland.

Gov. Wes Moore (38:45): "I'm about the people. A political party does not give me my talking points."

Moore reflects on his upbringing and experiences, underscoring his commitment to public service and dedication to improving the lives of Maryland residents.

Upcoming Initiatives and Future Plans

Looking ahead, Governor Moore outlines future initiatives focused on workforce development, education, and economic resilience. He is optimistic about Maryland's prospects and advocates for replication of the state's successful models on a national level.

Gov. Wes Moore (26:52): "Leadership matters. Maryland is moving from a structural deficit to a surplus, with increasing labor force participation and new business starts."

Conclusion

The interview concludes with Governor Moore reaffirming his dedication to Maryland and his commitment to upholding constitutional principles. Hosts and guests express admiration for his leadership and express hope for his influence on a broader national stage.

Charlamagne Tha God (45:07): "We love the work you’re doing in Maryland. Somebody needs to replicate it on the national stage."

Notable Quotes:

• Gov. Wes Moore (03:26): "The money comes from building coalitions with the private sector and being creative about our partnerships."
• Gov. Wes Moore (08:30): "86% of all Maryland contracts now require some form of MBE participation."
• Gov. Wes Moore (19:29): "Due process matters. Garcia needs to come home and stand trial."
• Gov. Wes Moore (32:24): "Our Second Chance Act isn't automatic; it allows people to petition for a second look."

Key Takeaways:

• Maryland’s proactive economic policies have led to low unemployment and economic growth despite federal challenges.
• Governor Moore is committed to addressing the racial wealth gap through substantial support for Black and minority-owned businesses.
• He fiercely defends constitutional rights, particularly in cases like Kilmar Abrego Garcia, advocating for due process.
• Moore criticizes the Trump administration’s overreach and calls for stronger state and Congressional actions.
• Personal authenticity and a people-centric leadership approach define Moore’s governance style.

This episode offers an in-depth look into Governor Wes Moore's strategies, challenges, and vision for Maryland, providing valuable insights into state-level leadership amidst national political turbulence.

Transcript

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[West Moore]

Wake that ass up early in the morning.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

The Breakfast Club. Yes, it's the world's most dangerous morning show. The Breakfast Club. Charlemagne. The God. Just hilarious. Envy is out, but Lauren LaRosa is in. And we have the two. A 2028 presidential candidate and the governor of Maryland, West Moore is here. How are you, my brother?

[West Moore]

Back, man. It's good to be back.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Good to have you back, man. How you feeling? First of all?

[West Moore]

I'm feeling great.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Okay?

[West Moore]

I'm feeling great, man. Listen. And you know, contrary to everything else going on in the country, Maryland's doing great. Yes, we continue pushing, I mean, and honestly, like getting really big wins for our people. And so we're, we're excited.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I wanted to talk to you about all of that because, you know, I know that you're implementing a lot of great things in Maryland and I wonder what could be replicated on a national level to protect us from a lot of things that this administration is doing hurt working class people especially.

[West Moore]

Well, here's the thing. I mean, I think right now we're seeing, you know, people, you keep on talking about what's the power of the president and the power of the presidency. I think people all see right now what's the power of governors, you know what I'm saying? What's the power of states? We have a whole lot more authority than people sometimes give us credit for, but frankly, a whole lot more power and authority than think a lot of governors understand and can take on. So, for example, you know, Maryland has more exposure to these federal cuts, the federal public service cuts that the Trump administration is just arbitrarily and in many cases, by the way, illegally doing. And so what Maryland has done, we've come up with the most aggressive plan to be able to say how are we going to streamline and support our federal workers, create advanced supports for them, but also making sure that we can streamline them into available state jobs that we need. So, for example, there are tens of thousands of vacancies when it comes to Credentialed educators inside of the state of Maryland. We have thousands of people in health care, nurses, et cetera, that we have as vacancies in the state of Maryland. So I'm like, so five people who are qualified and who are interested, we're going to streamline them, get them trained up, credentialed, and get them inside of the classrooms, get them inside of our healthcare facilities. Because you're solving two problems, right? You're solving a fact that we have a shortage of people in education, healthcare, and at the same time creating jobs. You're creating jobs, right? So I look at how Maryland has moved now in just these first months where Maryland now is going on, really the 14th straight month of amongst the lowest unemployment rates in the entire country, Maryland has now has an unemployment rate of 3, 3%, which is below, well below the national average, despite the fact that we've had more federal cuts because the Trump administration than most other states. And so I'm just like, as, as governors, you can be creative about making sure that you can get your economy moving. You can be creative about how you get new businesses on board, about how you're supporting your small businesses, how you're supporting your minority owned businesses. And you don't have like, I don't wait for permission from the federal government to do anything. And that's the thing. I think that's the kind of posture that you're watching governors now able to move in this moment.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

So how do you, how do you continue to do that if somebody like Trump says, you know what, we're not sending no more federal aid to Maryland?

[West Moore]

Well, I mean, he's, where does the money come from? He's done that.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Okay, so where the money coming from then?

[West Moore]

Well, the money comes from you're actually having to build coalitions with the private sector.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Okay.

[West Moore]

You're building coalitions with, with, with your, your other independent partners. It also comes from making sure that you're being creative about who your partner's actually going to be. So for example, you know, I've said very clearly, we've got to make sure that we're focusing our economy on growth. You know, I, you know, we, we've gone from, this year alone, Maryland has gone from a three and a half structural debt, three and a half billion dollar structural deficit that I inherited to now Maryland has a structural surplus. Right. And part of the reason we're able to do it is two reasons. One, we're able to be very strategic about our budget and really have some strategic cuts. There's about two and a half billion dollars of cuts in Maryland's budget. The largest amount of cuts that we've seen in 16 years. But also what we're doing is investing in new industries. You know, I just came back from a trade mission in, in Japan and Korea where we were talking with companies in life sciences and IT and aerospace and defense. I'm going anywhere and everywhere where we think there's unique opportunities and partnerships to build our economy and then build an economy that diversifies off of Washington, D.C. and so we've just been very intentional and focused. When I've said, listen, I will work with, with anyone, that includes the federal government, but I will bow down to no one. And we are going to make sure, we're going to protect our people and make sure that our economy grows.

[Jess Hilarious]

And you all be wondering why I act like that. Me and him act the same way.

[West Moore]

Come on now, Come on now.

[Lauren LaRosa]

That was his version of Instagram Live.

[West Moore]

You already know. You already know.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Now, how would you grade Trump's first 100 days back in office?

[West Moore]

I mean, listen, I don't even need to, cuz I talk to the people.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[West Moore]

You know what I mean? They tell me the grade.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah, you can't lie to the people.

[West Moore]

When I'm talking to the farmers in the Eastern Shore who watch all their prices get jacked up, whether you're the poultry farmer, whether you're the barley farmer. Farms that have been around and agriculture is actually Maryland's largest industry, farms that have been around for over 100 years who now say, I don't know if I can survive the next six months. Right. I go talk to the port workers down at the Port of Baltimore, you know, and it's one of the largest and most effective ports in the entire country. Two thirds of the country gets their goods from the Port of Baltimore, either import or export. Right? And I talk to them who are now watching a significant pullback in goods, which means less hours for them, which means less work for them. I talk to everybody who's going out to grocery stores and watching rising prices. I talk to people whose job it is to make sure that our food is protected. Federal workers making sure that they're doing, focusing on cybersecurity, making sure that veterans are, are getting a proper burial who now are out of a job. Ask them how Trump is doing. Yeah, ask them how the first hundred days is going.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I'm no Joe Biden fan, but when I heard Trump say yesterday that the gdp, the falling gdp, was Biden's Fault. I'm like, well, that's just not true. What would you say to people? Because you know more about this than any of us. What would you say to people when you hear that? When people say, well, that's Biden's GDP.

[West Moore]

That, listen, you can't, when, when, when the stock market jumps, you can't take credit. And when the stock market falls, you can't, you can't deploy, you know, deploy blame. That's not the way this game goes. You know, when you're the chief executive, you take the good and the bad. That's part of the job. That's what leadership actually means. And you cannot look at the policies that have come on board thus far from this administration, the impact that it's had on people, and pretend like, well, that's someone else's fault. It's just, it's fundamentally not true. And if Donald Trump wants to try to take credit for things that go well, he also has to take blame for the fact that this is the first time that we've seen our economy contract, our economy gets smaller since 2002. So if, you know, if Joe Biden in 2002 could have turned around and said, well, that's actually Trump's economy, but he didn't because he actually chose to lead. Well, Donald Trump take on that same responsibility. Understand, this is yours.

[Lauren LaRosa]

What things? Because I know you did the, the service year option. Yeah. So, you know, workforce is really important to you. But within the first hundred days, I'm looking at an article that says one of the big effects to Maryland is that 1 in every 10 workers in the state is employed by the federal government. And almost half of Maryland's federal workers live in Montgomery and Prince George's County. A lot of those who are going to lose jobs, it's going to heavily affect black people.

[West Moore]

That's right.

[Lauren LaRosa]

So what, what initiatives are you preparing now? Because they got those hits are happening, they're going to fill it and they are, you know what I mean, in real time. They going to need money and work.

[West Moore]

They are. And you know, and we've actually been really aggressive when it comes to not just protecting federal workers, but also looking at the, you know, when you look at the racial wealth gap that is in the state of Maryland, for example, you know, when I was first inaugurated and we've actually been able to address it when we come on board, but it was 8 to 1 when I first became the governor, and I'm the, you know, I'm the only black governor in the country. The first black governor in the history of the state of Maryland and only the third African American ever elected governor in the history of this country. And so when I came on and said we have to address the racial wealth gap, the fact that in our state it's 8 to 1, I was like, the reason we have a racial wealth gap is of eight to one is not because one group is working eight times harder.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Right?

[West Moore]

I mean, like, these are policies, these are systems that are put in place that have allowed certain groups to be able to gain wealth and certain groups not.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Right?

[West Moore]

And so we came in very clear that we are coming with a focus of work, wages and wealth. When we came on board and when we talked about work, it meant doing things like investing in the service year option for every high school graduate. Now is a chance to have a paid year of service to the state of Maryland. That we have made historic investments in apprenticeship programs. We have quadrupled the amount of apprentices in the state of Maryland. Basically saying that while four year college degrees are great when not everyone needs to have one in order to be economically successful. And we got to pipeline people into real occupations, trade school, trade schools, you know what I'm saying? Like, and starting early with that process with young people, because that not every per, like, listen, I, I, I, I joined the army when I was 17, you know what I mean? Like, and, and you know, I went to a two year college and things worked out pretty well. So we have to make sure that everybody knows that their path doesn't have to be the same, but their path can be uniquely theirs and they can benefit from it. That we've been able to pass, not just the most comprehensive procurement reform bill in the history of the state of Maryland, making sure that we're actually properly and evenly allocating capital to small businesses, Black businesses. Over $3 billion have gone to black businesses and MBE since I've been the governor. Right. 86% of all Maryland contracts now require some form of MBE participation in it. And that number was at 35% was MBE. Again, sorry, minority business enterprises.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Okay, yeah.

[West Moore]

So, so making sure we're being very clear that if we' to use state dollars, which by the way, oftentimes is capital that's coming from, from African American taxpayers, that we need to make sure that we're being even and we're being fair about the way we're talking about allocation of that capital that we have done and not just signed the largest pardon in the history of the United States, 175,000 pardon, the largest mass pardon in the history of this country for misdemeanor cannabis convictions. I just signed a bill on expungement, on spungement reform, the most comprehensive expungement reform that our state has ever seen, on a bill that I introduced and that I proudly signed, that focused on making sure we can give people a second chance and actually clean their records. And so we've been very clear that being able to add a culture of repair is something that is really important to us. Because when we all do better, we all do better. And racism is really expensive. And we're really trying to address that in the state of Maryland. I'm proud of the progress we're making.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Jess, you're from Maryland. You live in Maryland.

[Jess Hilarious]

Yes, I am. And I want to ask you, how is it working with Mayor Brandon Scott, Baltimore?

[West Moore]

Yes, that's my guy.

[Jess Hilarious]

Maryland is leading right now with black excellence. Shout out to Angela. Also, Brooks, shout out to yourself. The most talked about, most loved ag. And we got a lot going on in Baltimore. We got the ciaa. Is that continuing, do you know?

[West Moore]

Yes, we want ciaa, and we want that to be ciaab. Yeah, it was out of Baltimore at the end of it.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

It was better in Charlotte, though.

[West Moore]

No, it was not.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yes, it was a lot.

[Lauren LaRosa]

I'm not going to hold you. A lot of people said it was better in Charlotte.

[West Moore]

Why?

[Lauren LaRosa]

I'm sorry.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Y'all better.

[Jess Hilarious]

Don't. Don't talk about sorry.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Not sorry.

[Jess Hilarious]

How about has never come to Delaware? So.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Okay, you got that one.

[West Moore]

Baltimore's got a better buildup right now. Baltimore is going to generate more economic activity. Baltimore City, for example, right now has the seventh fastest growing economy in the entire country. If you look at what's happening in Baltimore City, Baltimore City is on a rise. And we were very clear. You know, it's funny, when I first ran, I was like, we gotta put a real focus on Baltimore. And people was like, of course you say that. You're a Baltimorean. You're a homer. I was like, I'm not saying it because I'm a Baltimorean. I said it because I'm very good at math. Tell me a single state that is clicking on all cylinders and the state's largest city is not. And the answer is it doesn't exist. That you've got to invest in your largest city. In that case, in the state of Maryland, it's Baltimore. And so Baltimore, if you look at what's happening again, the seventh fastest growing economy in the entire country, the homicide, the violent crime rate in Baltimore City in the state of Maryland. Maryland's having amongst the fastest and most impressive drops in violent crime anywhere in the entire country. Baltimore City, before I became the governor, went eight straight years of 300 plus homicides in Baltimore City. Now the homicide rate in Baltimore City, the last time it was this low, I wasn't born yet.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Wow.

[West Moore]

It is literally having amongst the fastest drops in violent crime anywhere in America. So, so shout out to, to Mayor Scott, shout out to the entire team. Because, you know, this is, this really is, this is going to be, this is going to be Maryland's decade. But in order for it to be Maryland's decade, it's got to be Baltimore's time.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Salute to Baltimore. Salute to Nick's Fish House in Baltimore. They just showed me some love when I was. I want to shout them out.

[West Moore]

Shout out to in the middle of.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

An interview with the governor just because.

[Jess Hilarious]

The only thing that can hurt you in Maryland right now is the pollen stuff. So what are we doing about that?

[West Moore]

The pollen is bad. I wish there was an executive order I could sign on that one. The pollen is bad.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You know what I love about Maryland? About a couple of months ago, I was in Maryland for my daughter's cheerleading competition. I was at. What's that place called? Just National Harbor. Was it National Harbor?

[West Moore]

National Harbor, George County.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And literally that's the first time people were coming up to me saying, yo, with everything that Elon Musk and Doge is doing, I don't, I don't know if I'm going to have a job. My wife don't know if she, she's going to have a job. And these were regular, everyday working class people that was so concerned and they probably did ended up, end up losing their jobs because tens of thousands of jobs got lost. And so I was like, damn, man. That's what, that's what really made me realize what they were doing was impacting, you know, everyday working class people in that way.

[West Moore]

And what they're doing is illegal.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yes.

[West Moore]

I mean, listen, if you look at every one of these decisions that Donald Trump is making, and let's be clear, when people say he's passing all these bills. No, he's not. Actually. There's hardly any bills. Yeah, it's just executive orders is executive orders. Right. Over 150 executive orders. And all of his executive orders can really fall into three different categories. Right. It's ineffective, it's performative, or it's illegal. Right. Those are the three buckets that every one of his executive orders really pretty much fall into. And the problem is, is when you're talking about all these cuts, you're talking about the elimination of the Department of Education, do you know what? Donald Trump does not have the authority to eliminate the Department of Education unilaterally. That's Congress, right? Because Congress is the one that allocates the capital for it. So this is actually a moment when we need to see Congress have a spine. We need to see Congress step up. Because right now, Congress, the president is chumping you. He's pretending like you don't even exist. So I'm really curious to see, is Congress going to step up and do its job?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Oh, no, they already. I mean, a lot of them have already bent the knee completely.

[West Moore]

Bent the knee completely bentany.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Do y'all have conversations like that? Is it worth you calling them out publicly? Especially, you know, Democrats in Congress?

[West Moore]

Oh, yeah. And not only is it worth it, we. We do.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah.

[West Moore]

And. And I think. And, and actually. And shout out. I mean, our congressional delegation, you know, actually led by Senator Chris Van Hollen, Angela, also Brooks, is actually doing a really good job because I think our congressional delegation is really helping to hold the line on a lot of these things, on a whole collection of different issues. But Congress is the one that fundamentally has to pass a budget. Congress is the one that fundamentally has to make sure that laws can get to a president's desk. Congress is the one that needs to make sure they actually hold onto their authority. And we need, in this moment, we need leaders to lead. That's what we need. And that's, again, one of the really, I think, unique things that we're seeing about governors right now, is that we have a chance to uniquely show a different way. We have a chance to show, you know, what, even in this time of chaos, we can still drive the fact that in Maryland, we're having historically low unemployment rates, that even in this time of chaos, that we are having historic drops in violent crime within our state, that even in this time, even in this time of chaos, we're still able to pass legislation that is not just important, but also is scalable and can be. Can take place around the country. So that's a great thing about being a chief executive in this moment, but we still need Congress to do its job.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Well, when you see the power that Trump wields, right? Like we had Congressman Al Green up here, and I was like, I said to him, I said, man, I didn't even know presidents had this kind of power. And he was like, neither did I. So when you see the kind of power that he wields. Does it make you push the levels of your power as governor? Do you like? Well, damn, let me see what I can do.

[West Moore]

Well, you know, I actually, I think the, the things that we were doing even before Donald Trump came out is I've always been one to say I'm always going to put push to make sure that we are doing justice to a job. You know, I, I keep a clock that sits on my desk every single day that tells me how many days I have left in my first turn. And I'm gonna run it back because I'm running for reelection 26. But it tells me, in fact, right now it's. It's 634 days left before my reelection. The reason I keep that clock on my desk is it reminds me, do not waste a day, man. You got 634 days right now. Until this time is up and someone else eventually will sit in the seat as the governor of Maryland, I'm not going to waste a day. And so I do think that our ability to be able to be creative about the levers that we're using to make change the levers that we're using to make sure that we were doing important things like raising a minimum wage in the state of Maryland, because gone should be the days when you have people who are working jobs and in some cases multiple jobs and still living at or below a poverty line. Right. That we are gonna make sure we are aggressive about doing things like funding, having historic funding of childcare because parents shouldn't have to decide between, is my kid gonna be okay, or can I go back to the workforce?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That's right. That's why Jess was off for so long.

[West Moore]

But this is real. This is a, this is a real thing. I mean, it's situations like my mom. My mom, I was raised by an immigrant single mother who worked three different jobs and did not get her first job that gave her benefits until I was 14 years old.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

She was Jamaican, right?

[West Moore]

That's right.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah. That's common makers to have more than one job.

[West Moore]

That's the fault. That's the fault. She wanted to do that. All right, Jobs is part time. But I mean, like, but, but, and, and here's the thing about it. This is a woman who went on to earn a master's degree and didn't get her first job that gave her benefits until her son was 14. So when people are having conversations about inequitable pay between men and women or the racial wealth gap, I tell people Like, I don't need a white paper to explain it. You know, I mean, like I grew up in this.

[Jess Hilarious]

Yeah.

[West Moore]

That when we're doing the work that we're doing right now in the state of Maryland around young men and boys about making sure that we are protecting our young men and boys and making sure we are lifting them up. Because it's not just because when you look at the data, how, how, how, how drastic and staggering some of this data is that we're seeing right now around our young men and boys. It's because I came up in this, I was 11 years old when I had handcuffs on my wrist. So I get this. And so our ability to now use these seats and use these moments and not waste a single day is something that I take very, very seriously. And frankly, I didn't need Donald Trump to show me the power of the executive because I think in Maryland, we've been showing the power of executive for the past two years.

[Jess Hilarious]

What are your thoughts on Trump not wanting to bring home Kilmar Garcia? Cuz he was living in Maryland. That was the guy that was wrongfully deported.

[West Moore]

And here's the thing, for me, this actually has nothing to do with immigration because people talk about this as you know, I love what he's doing around immigration. I said, well, first of all, if Donald Trump really wanted to fix immigration, he could do it simply by calling up Speaker Johnson and saying, I need a comprehensive immigration bill on my desk next week. And you know what will be on his desk next week? A comprehensive immigration bill. Because Donald Trump has the votes. He's got the House and he's got the Senate. This has nothing to do with immigration. This just simply has to do with violating the Constitution. That's what this is. And so when I think about the case of Kilmar Abrego Garcia, my point is this. Due process matters. In this, he needs to come home, he needs to stand trial and then let a judge decide what the long term, what, you know, what is what is what his long term situation is going to be. Not Donald Trump. You know, if they say, well, he was doing X, Y and z, okay, fine, let him come home, let him stand trial and let him do what basic due process offers to every single person. And if all of that determined is true, then absolutely he should then face consequences and face his sentencing. But not because Donald Trump looked at a photoshopped picture and said, this is gonna be his fate. Cuz that is a very, very dangerous slippery slope. And so my whole thing is this, just follow The Constitution follow due process and follow what the Supreme Court in a 9.0 decision said that he needs to come home and stand trial. I just. I stand with the law on this, and I stand with the Constitution.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Correct me on some things. Right. Because Mr. Garcia has acknowledged that he entered the US illegally.

[West Moore]

Correct.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

In 2012. So was he. He was here illegally.

[West Moore]

That's. He was undocumented. That's right.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

So if he's undocumented, does the Constitution still apply to him?

[West Moore]

Yes, there is. There's still constitutional protections.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Okay.

[West Moore]

And not only. And especially because what he is being held for or tried for right now are things that he has not. Not only not been convicted for, not even had a formal accusation of. So this is the problem, is that. So Donald Trump right now is trying to rewrite the Constitution. Donald Trump right now is violating the Constitution by not allowing him to come home and have due process. So. Yes. So the Constitution still offers, you know, still offers what is the guidance around the federal government's responsibility, around state's responsibility. And that still does fall under the situation of Kilmar Abrego Garcia.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I think that's what's missing in this whole conversation. The fact that, you know, like Martin Luther King Jr. Said, Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. So if you see somebody not receiving due process when they're supposed to, that could impact any of us at any given time. And none of us want to just be snatched off the street and deported to another country just because.

[West Moore]

And listen, here's the danger. Today it's Kilmar Abrego Garcia. Who's it tomorrow?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Lauren LaRosa.

[Jess Hilarious]

Oh, my gosh.

[West Moore]

Don't.

[Jess Hilarious]

That's your last name.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

No, I'm just saying it could be, is what we're saying. I'm using an example because, you know.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Trump tried to get him, and you.

[Jess Hilarious]

Can'T tell them that you're from Delaware because they'll be like, oh, please.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah, he don't.

[Jess Hilarious]

Nobody's gonna even respect that.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Why would y'all put me in it?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

No, but we're just using it as an example to say it could be anybody.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Charlamagne, the guy.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

No, but it could be anybody.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Does he know he coming for you?

[West Moore]

Why you gonna come for me?

[Lauren LaRosa]

Did you watch the interview that when Trump said Down with Terry Moran?

[West Moore]

I didn't watch the whole thing.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Okay, but did you see the part I said, the tattoo thing? Because they were going back and forth about the tattoos or whatever when you see stuff like that, because then media picks it up the other way and uses these tattoos that Trump. That there's evidence that doesn't support what Trump is saying, but they use it as a, well, he deserved what he got. And how do you guys in the government then fight that? Because the public opinion sways so much.

[West Moore]

It's. I didn't see the whole interview. I saw. I did see clips of it, and I saw that part. And what's really sad to me is it isn't just the fact that we have a President of the United States who is literally buying into conspiracy theories and Photoshopped pictures in front of our eyes. What really also bothers me about it is it's the people around him who enable this. It's the people around him who tell them this is true. The people around him who feed him these pictures and say, yes, Mr. President, you know, he had Ms. 13 on his knuckles when he didn't. And so it's. And this goes back to. And this goes back to the idea that in many ways, this has nothing actually to do with Kilmar Virgo Garcia. This has nothing even to do with his situation. This just simply has to do with. Are we willing to follow the law? Are we a country of laws? Or are we now a country where President of the United States gets to pick and choose which laws we follow and which laws we don't? Are we a country that actually follows the Constitution? Are we a country that listens when the Supreme Court in a unanimous decision. And let me be clear, this Supreme Court hardly ever decides anything. Unanimous.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Trump's court.

[West Moore]

Exactly. This is Trump's court.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

He put three people on it.

[West Moore]

9, 0. The man needs to come home and stand trial. And we have an administration right now that's literally using the Constitution as a suggestion box.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You know what I'm saying?

[West Moore]

So that's fundamentally the problem and what we continue to deal with and the fact that the relationship between the federal government and our states really has been ruptured.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

So when you run for president in 2028.

[West Moore]

I have not run for president.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

When you run for president in 2028 and Trump runs again for his third term, what is the point of even running? Because, you know, it's just gonna be all for show, Wes. Like you know it. Cause literally the thing that bothers me the most is people are normalizing that conversation. Like Trump running for a third term. Well, then Obama can run again. If. If Trump runs for a third term, it's over. The fight is fixed. We know this.

[West Moore]

I so one, I'm not running, okay? But also, I also believe that anyone who's talking about 2028 is really delusional because they don't understand what's going on in 2025.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I agree.

[West Moore]

I think anybody that's talking about 2028 right now doesn't understand the situation we are in right now, where we have people who are getting laid off, who have devoted their life to public service, who are getting laid off because someone who wasn't willing to take the same oath that they took now tells them their job is useless. Right. That we have situations where we have small businesses, some cases generational small businesses, that are going to go out of business simply because we have these arbitrary tariff policies that have nothing to do with economics but have everything to do with ideology. Right. That we have. That we have children who rely on the Department of Education, kids who are, you know, children who are receiving special needs. Right. Kids who are in rural areas and parts of my state who now are going to watch their. Their funding not just cut, but in many ways evaporated because we have a president of the United States who somehow believes that the Department of Education is not important anymore. Right. So I think for anyone who's talking about 2028 or trying to make moves for 2028, my answer is this. I really hope you wake up and realize the world we are living in right now and understanding what's at stake.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I think that they're talking about 2028 because they really don't have any plans for now. Like, they don't even. They've never seen this before.

[West Moore]

Right.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And they don't know how to fight it. So they're just resorting back to what they know, which is the next election, midterms in 2026, you know, presidential election in 2028.

[West Moore]

But that's why I think leadership matters. Right. And that's why I think if you. That's why I'm really proud of the work that we're doing inside of the state of Maryland. Because in the state of Maryland, we basically just said, you know, I'm. I'm going to lead regardless, and our state's going to lead regardless. And so when you're looking at the momentum that we now have within the state of Maryland, the fact that we have gone from a structural deficit to a structural surplus, that for the first time in 10 years, we're watching labor force participation actually increase and new jobs, new business starts actually increasing in the state of Maryland, the first time in 10 years, the fact that we are watching new partnerships and new builds, things like the Service year option. You know, things like making sure that we're giving people second chances when they're coming back home, like, that kind of stuff matters, because I think people. One thing I always learned in the military was this. No one pays attention to how you perform when times are easy. Because when you're easy, you can show me anything. You know what I mean? If you ever want to learn anything about anybody, watch them. When it was hard.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That's right.

[West Moore]

Watch them when it was tough, Watch them. When the heat got turned up, watch them. Did they curl up in the fetal position and just sit there and take it, or did they actually mobilize? And I think what you're seeing in the state of Maryland, when we knew we had this crisis, for example, of violence that I walked into and saying, I refuse to be a governor that will just sit there and attend funerals and. And offer thoughts and prayers while my people are dying on the streets, right? And so we came in and we said we were going to have the most aggressive push to be able to curtail violence in our state. And now Maryland has amongst the fastest drops in violence anywhere in the country. When we saw what happened in the Key Bridge, when we saw a ship the size of three football fields slam into the Key Bridge, knocking out the Port of Baltimore, and when people said, it's going to take 11 months to be able to clear the channel, and we got together, we supported those families of the six people who we lost that day, and we got that channel cleared in 11 weeks. And when we watch this onslaught we're now seeing from the Trump administration, where it is very clear my state has become public enemy number one for these folks. I get it.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Why is it because of you?

[West Moore]

Well, I think Boston is a lot of proximity, and just look at the decisions that they're making. When you're going out, when you're going after the nih, the National Institute of Health, when you're going after Social Security. Right. You know what? Those also are? In addition to things that are. That are some of America's crown jewels, they're also Maryland assets. When you stand up there at a press conference and say, yeah, the FBI building, which, by the way, was going to be responsible for about $4 billion of economic activity, 7,000 jobs, something that we worked on for a decade independent of politics, and Maryland won that bid fair and square. And to watch a president of the United States in a press conference stand up there and say, yeah, that's not going to the state of Maryland because they are a liberal State. At least he showed. At least he showed himself.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Have you, have you met him yet? Have y'all spoken?

[West Moore]

We have.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Okay. And we have all those conversations.

[West Moore]

Like, you know, they're interesting.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You never see the photo ops. You stay away from the cameras when you're around him, huh?

[West Moore]

Well, no, you know, it's funny. I actually. I actually met with him during the Army Navy game because, you know, because I go to the Army Navy game every. Almost every year.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Okay.

[West Moore]

And when he came to the Army Navy game last year, we had a chance to. To meet and we talked about the bridge. And I explained to him why the hundred percent financing, why the cost share for the bridge was so important, because this was a port that really serves the entire country, that this was a unique situation because we are currently in litigation. The reason that the port, the reason that the key bridge collapsed was not because of an act of God or because of a storm. It was because of negligence, because a ship the size of three football fields slammed into it. Right. And we're currently in litigation. And so the American people are going to be made whole on that. So I walked him through it. I talked about the economics. I was thankful that Congress actually passed the 100% cost share. And so we're in the process right now of making sure we're going to fulfill the commitment to the. To the American people. But I've met with him before, and again, I will work with anybody. But partnership only works when it's both ways. Partnership doesn't work when you're given and you're getting nothing back in return.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah. I've heard you talk about the importance of finding common ground with the Trump administration, but when you think about all the moves that they've currently made, what opportunities do you see for y'all to collab? I don't. I can't see it personally.

[West Moore]

Partnership only works when it's both ways. And if you're coming after my people, if you're. If you're. If you're literally trying to crater our economy, that's not partnership. And so it's just very, very difficult to be able to say that this administration has been a good part and forget about to me, to my people, to the people of Maryland. And I think when you go around the state of Maryland, you will hear exactly what I am saying. There is a level of frustration that people have right now about the situation where we as a state are actually moving, not because of our relationship with the federal government, but in many ways, in spite of.

[Jess Hilarious]

Yeah, you signed into The Second look act and the Expungement Reform Act. Right. And some people feel that expunging records may heighten the sense, like heighten the public safety. You know, giving people, giving some people a second chance and you give some criminals a second chance, they feel like, you know, they're gonna make it, it's gonna make it hard for certain people or hard for those who, you know what I mean, like they shouldn't get second chances. You know what I'm saying? A lot of times that's the case. A lot of times it's not. What would you say to the people that feel that way?

[West Moore]

Yeah, I mean, first I would say I, I, I understand the concern of some, I really do. I also know this like I'm a, I'm a child of God. And my faith teaches me that, that we, we believe in second chances and we should offer second chances. I also know that when you look at things like the Second Chance act, not only are there, there are certain crimes that are not eligible for, for the second, for the, for the second chance at. So, so there are some specific carve outs about, you know, people who is, you know, when it's had something dealing with, you know, sexual assault, dealing with children, or, you know, you, you know, something dealing with law enforcement, like, so there's certain things that do not fall into the category, but also what the Second Chance act does do, it says, it's not saying it's automatic that you happen, it's just simply saying you have a chance to petition to have a second chance and have a second look. And so it's just simply giving an opportunity for people who in many ways, you know, have, have now been caught up in this system for a long period of time. And for us to say that, that, you know, that, that we don't believe that every sentence should be a life sentence. And that again, my faith does teach me that second chances should actually mean something and there should be pathways for it in certain cases. And people should have again, just the opportunity to petition. This is not automatic, but it is the opportunity to petition. And I do think for the people who then will then qualify, these are people who are ready to enter back into society and be contributing members to society.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You know, forget, you know, people forget about the, the second chance, they forget the number after that.

[West Moore]

Three.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

There's a three strike law too, dumbass.

[West Moore]

Dumbass.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Don't learn. Okay, Maryland does have the three strike law, right?

[West Moore]

Well, and here's the thing. It's like we have to, who of us haven't needed second chances. That's right.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And if you mess that up, that's on you.

[West Moore]

I mean, like, again, I'm a person who has needed second and third and eighth chances, and it's because people gave me a second chance. It's because people helped me to understand that the world was bigger than what was just directly in front of me and that not all of my prior decisions helped to determine my future, that I'm now standing here as a 63rd governor of my state. Right. I believe in second chances, and I believe that people should earn the right to be able to have a second chance as long as you have those certain things that are in place and people should have the right to petition for it. And so I just. I just find it really, you know, at times when I'm being. When people like, no, no, no, no, no. I just find it really rich because for a lot of times, the people who are like, no, no, no, no, no. Who are people who are standing there because someone in their life said, yes, that's right.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That's right.

[Lauren LaRosa]

Talking of second chances. Right. Going back to Kilmar Garcia. So I know that Senator Haaland is like, he went and visited El Salvador. El Salvador. And people were upset that you quickly said that you weren't planning to go there. Why were people upset about you not going there when you already have boots on the ground?

[West Moore]

Yeah. I mean, and that's the thing. I've been in very close touch with Senator Van Hollen. I applauded him when he went. We spoke before. Before he went. And so I know that as a member of the Senate, there are certain responsibilities and there are certain pathways that they have that I, as a governor, do not. That they have certain jobs that they can do. As a governor, there are certain. I know my job is different. We have always been completely aligned on making sure that due process is followed, making sure that we can bring Kilmar back home so he can then stand trial. And so I've been standing in lockstep with Senator Van Hollen the whole time. I applaud him going down and making sure that he could come back and report back to the family that he had, that he put eyes on him and said that he's. That he's. That he's physically okay. Because, remember, when Chris went down there, nobody was sure because no one had heard from him. And so Chris going down there to say, I now have seen him, I know he's okay, was a really important thing, not just for the large society but was really important for the family. But I also know as a governor, I have certain responsibilities and, and restrictions on things that I can do. And I'm going to make sure that we're leading from, from the perch that I sit at.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I think, I think y'all have to stop making it about Garcia and just start making it about. Making it about the issue of due process.

[West Moore]

That's all it is.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah. Because people. Because it's too, you know, they love to do that to folks. They'll point to things in his character. And we. I really don't know. But let's talk about the constitutional violation that's happening.

[West Moore]

And Charlamagne, you're absolutely right, because I'm not. I am not. And I won't defend him. I don't know his situation. I don't know his background. I don't know. I have never met with him. So I'm not defending the person. I'm defending the Constitution. Right. I'm defending the fact that there is due process and we've got to be able to follow that. And frankly, once due process happens again, if a judge rules that no, you know, he is a threat society. He is this, he is that, he needs to be set back, then you know what, Go ahead. Because there is nothing that I care about more. And I think people are seeing that with our track record in Maryland, there's nothing I care more than about, than public safety. Like I make sure that our people are safe. I will make sure. We have made historic investments in local law enforcement. We have made historic investments in, not just in, not just our state's attorneys, but also Maryland's one of the only states that actually puts balance sheet into the U.S. attorney to make sure we're getting trigger pullers off the street, to make sure we're getting violent offenders off the street, that we've made historic investments in violence prevention programs and violence interrupters, people like We Are us and safe streets that are down in Baltimore. So no one can ever question my commitment to public safety. But also I think you can be committed to public safety and committed to the Constitution. And I don't think that those two things are at odds with one another.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I got two more questions because I know you gotta go. I love the fact that governors have their boots on the ground. And I saw Governor Josh Shapiro on Bill Maher and I forgot what Bill asked him, but he was just like, look, I'm not focused on what they got going on in D.C. i'm focused on what I got going on in Pennsylvania. So I like that. How do we keep you from being a corny DC Type? He will never be a corny dude. Them DC guys are so corny, man.

[West Moore]

Listen, you know how I guess is, I didn't come from that. You know what I mean? Listen, when I first ran for governor, I ran against statewide elected officials. I ran against cabinet secretaries. The former head of the dnc, the former head of the Democratic Party ran or governor. And then me, a guy who'd never run for office before in my life. But I was connected to the people, right? It was the people that made me the governor. It wasn't a party. It wasn't a political establishment. In fact, the political establishment was somebody else. So when I got into that seat, I decided I'm not going to turn into something that I never was in the first place. You know what I mean? So the way I have continued to lead is I am about the people. I will always stand with the people. A political party does not give me my talking points.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Good. Don't let them change you, because, you know, they already talking about you with 2028. And they'll be like, wes, come over, start saying this and start doing that and meet this person and take money from this person. And then, you know what I mean?

[West Moore]

Like, I don't. I don't. I don't play that game because I didn't get here. That's not how I got here in the first place, man. Like, I mean, like, I'm. I. I am. I am. I am the most improbable governor in this country. When you think about my journey, right? When you think about my life path and, you know, and again, I'm a person of faith. And Hezekiah Walker, he's got a line where he says, when I think about my story, I can't help but give God glory.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

There you go.

[West Moore]

I know where my strength comes from. My strength doesn't come from a political party. My strength don't come from political bosses. I don't follow that. I follow the people that got me here in the first place, the people who buck the political system, which was the people. And so I'm not at all concerned about becoming a creature of something that didn't create me in the first place. And actually, I think that the main thing that people can do right now is stay true and stay committed and stay authentic. You know, when people say, well, what direction should people go in? Or how should people talk or whatever like that, I always find that question so confusing. I'm like, be Authentic. Because if you're not authentic, the people will suss it out and the people will snuff it out. And they'll take care of you the way they take care of you.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

My final question. This is something that I love about you is something that Dr. Umar Johnson loves about you. The fact that you have a black woman. Because so many people in positions of power like you in government, especially black people, they don't. Now love is love. Love who you want to love. But as a man who loves to see black men with black women having beautiful black families, I love it. What is the importance of that?

[West Moore]

You know, it's funny when. When I got married. We've married now about 18 years. My wife, she's beautiful, man, and she's just an amazing human being. And I remember when we said our vows. This shows you how corny I was when we first got married. We give our vows and I'm like, you know, my vows. I'm gonna keep it fresh and sexy.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Jesus Christ.

[Lauren LaRosa]

That's what you said.

[West Moore]

That's what I said. My vows. I'm gonna keep it fresh and sexy. That's.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Thank you.

[Lauren LaRosa]

All you had to do was hit a little two step after.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That sound like a $2 Tuesday. That sound like someone to fly at a party. Jess was not that sound like someone.

[West Moore]

Fly at a party.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Come to Fresh and Sexy Friday. Fresh and Sexy Friday in Baltimore.

[West Moore]

But you know what her vow was to me? She said, I will be your greatest offender.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Wow.

[West Moore]

I will be your greatest offender.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That's what black women are for us, though.

[West Moore]

And that's what they've always been like. I'm telling you, man, when you think about what black women have meant to us, you know, the whole, you know, we was, you know, raised by women, got a game for women, you know what I'm saying? Like, black women have always been our anchor. Black women have always been our guide. Black women have always been the ones to. When the whole world denied us, they defended us and they lifted us up. And you know, and I think about this where even the work that we're doing right now in Maryland around our. Our young men and boys, do you know who beautifully have been some of the greatest champions of the work that Maryland is doing, that really the nation leading work on supporting our young men and boys, women, because they know that's talking about their sons and their husbands and their fathers and their uncles and their friends. And it's so beautiful to watch because it is very indicative of how black women and women as a whole have always been our greatest offenders. That when the whole world came at us, oftentimes it was women who stood in front of us with shields and say, not today. And I'm so. I cannot be more lucky about the fact that I married my best friend. I married someone who I love and who I respect and who I adore. And someone who, you know, I'm so thankful is on my side because I never want to be on the other side of her spirit, ever. But someone who I. Who I will ride for because she's always wrote for me.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

She ever had to slap the shit out you for something?

[West Moore]

Oh, my God.

[Lauren LaRosa]

He said, what? 18 years old this morning. She's the first African American, first lady of the state.

[West Moore]

She is. She sure is. She sure is. She's a beast, too. She's a beast. Yeah, y'all gotta come down. Y'all gotta come.

[Lauren LaRosa]

In fact, you gonna have crabs if we come.

[West Moore]

Oh, absolutely, absolutely. And in fact, she is the co chair of the Preakness Festival. So for y'all. So, you know, you know. Preakness. So Preakness.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Is it Freaknick. I'm like, what?

[Lauren LaRosa]

I'm like.

[West Moore]

Yes, it's the second leg of the Triple Crown, the one of the biggest horse races inside of the entire country. But it's. But it's also. It's a big deal because it's a whole festival around it. And it's in beautiful Park Heights, Baltimore.

[Jess Hilarious]

Yep.

[West Moore]

The home of Brandon Scott. But my. But my amazing wife, our state's first lady, is the co chair. You got to see what she is doing. The build out. She's having. Club Quarantine de Nice is coming down there, bringing all. Bringing Jada kids, bringing. Too short. I mean, bringing everybody.

[Jess Hilarious]

It's gonna be a party from May 10th to May 17th.

[West Moore]

Come on now.

[Jess Hilarious]

Yes, I'll be there. Me 14th. Whole week of stuff.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Governor Westmore, thank you, brother. We appreciate you, man. We love the work you're doing in Maryland. I mean, you know, somebody need to replicate it on the national stage. And I hope that, you know, somebody gets the opportunity to, you know, because I don't know if we will have a democracy in 2028 or not, but we'll see.

[West Moore]

Oh, we will. As long as we don't. As long as we don't forfeit it.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah.

[West Moore]

Now that's what I'm saying. Like, like, I mean, like, we have to understand, man, it's like the power does belong to the people. That's the beauty of where we're at right now. And I'll say this one thing for our close, too. And this is why Maryland, I think, actually is really important in this situation. I'm a big history buff, so, like, especially in really difficult times, I generally tend to lean on history. And I like a lot of Maryland history. And, you know, in really difficult times like now, I'll read about famous Marylanders like Harriet Tubman. Right. Or Frederick Douglass or Thurgood Marshall. And I think to myself, imagine having a conversation with Harriet Tubman, who, by the way, one of the great things about being governor is I have the power to commission. And I made Harriet Tubman a general last year. So she's now General Harriet Tubman. And I think about what would a conversation be like with General Tubman, telling her about the dangers of this moment. And I think about the way she would look at me and say, do you know what I've been through? Do you know what it was like when I had to run from my life for my freedom in the middle of the night running from dogs and people with guns? And then when I finally made it to Pennsylvania and I got my freedom, I then decided to go back to bring more people and where she became one of the greatest conductors in the Underground Railroad. Right. And I think to myself, what a conversation with Harriet Tubman would be like, telling her how tough my job is, how difficult we've got it, and watch her look at me and say, I.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Would have shot him.

[Jess Hilarious]

Yeah, that's right.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah. Why are you arguing with him? Exactly. Why you arguing with these people in Congress? You know what I mean?

[West Moore]

In the middle of the night.

[Lauren LaRosa]

In the middle of the night.

[West Moore]

In the middle of the night. In the middle of the night.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Now, I get what you're saying.

[West Moore]

You know what I'm saying? But, like, let's. Let's not forget where we come from.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That's right.

[West Moore]

Like for all these people who like, oh, this is tough. And, oh, this we going to get. Please don't forget our history.

[Jess Hilarious]

Yeah.

[West Moore]

Please don't forget our ancestors.

[Jess Hilarious]

Yeah.

[West Moore]

Please don't forget what they had to go through. And listen, I. You know, as K says, we gonna be our.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And don't take the Harriet Tubman thing out of context. That was a nice black joke. It was an inside joke. We all got it. We're not trying to shoot anybody.

[West Moore]

Okay. No.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Okay.

[West Moore]

He loves it.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That was Fox News. That was an inside black joke.

[Lauren LaRosa]

I didn't think about how I could be proceed because, I mean, I'm black and I'm here. But you know, Fox News be on your tail. Okay?

[Jess Hilarious]

I know you got to go. Do you listen to vato?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Shut up, Jesse. I just. Thank you, Wes. Appreciate you, Wes. Thank you for coming as governor Westmore.

[West Moore]

Wake that ass up early in the morning.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

The Breakfast Club.

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