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The Breakfast Club
INTERVIEW: Havoc Talks New Mobb Deep Album, Prodigy's Legacy, 50 Cent, Jazmine Sullivan + More
00:39:57
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- [00:00]
Host 1
This is an I Heart podcast.
- [00:04]
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- [00:32]
Hunter (Black Effect Podcast Host)
I'm Hunter, host of Hunting for Answers on the Black Effect Podcast Network. Join me every weekday as I share bite sized stories of missing and murdered black women and girls in America. Stories like Erica Hunt, a young mother vanished without a trace after a family gathering on 4th of July weekend, 2016. No goodbyes, no clues, just gone. Listen to Hunting for Answers every weekday on the Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [01:09]
Havoc
Every day.
- [01:09]
DJ Envy
I wake up.
- [01:10]
Havoc
Wake your ass up. The Breakfast Club.
- [01:14]
DJ Envy
Morning, everybody. It's DJ Envy. Just hilarious. Charlamagne, the guy. We are the Breakfast Club. Lon Laros is here as well. We got a special guest in the building. We have Havoc here. Havoc. What's up, brother?
- [01:25]
Havoc
What's going on?
- [01:26]
DJ Envy
How you feeling?
- [01:27]
Havoc
Real good, real good.
- [01:28]
DJ Envy
Havoc from Mobb Deep, of course. New album Infinite, out on this Friday.
- [01:33]
Havoc
That's right.
- [01:34]
DJ Envy
So many questions. So many questions. So let's start off with. With first, how did you put this album together?
- [01:40]
Havoc
Oh, man, it was. It was a long time in the making. Cause, you know, after the untimely death of Prodigy, you know what I mean, it was something that I wanted to do, but it took me a minute because, you know, the family was in the grieving process. But to make a long story short, linked up with Alc Alchemist and we knew we had to start, you know what I mean? Start the album. So flew out there, I had a couple of songs already, you know what I'm saying? Some verses from Prodigy's family. And Alchemist had a ton of verses already, so we just started putting it together and just breaking it down.
- [02:11]
Host 1
How did you. I was gonna ask, how did you pick which verses? Like when you're going through Prodigy, you know, verses that we've never heard.
- [02:18]
Havoc
Right?
- [02:18]
Host 1
How you pick which ones? Because people are anticipating hearing it.
- [02:21]
Havoc
Right, right. I mean, it was kind of hard. Cause to me, you know what I'm saying? All Prodigy verses is dope, you know what I mean? So it. It was hard. I mean, cuz we ended up with like what, 25 songs, you know, you know, ended up with 15, but I don't know, you know, just the best ones, you know, I mean, out of Prodigies verses if, if I could pick was really hard though.
- [02:40]
DJ Envy
Now, were any of these songs done already from y' all already or these were all you had to get every new verses from? You know, whether his. His daughter. I see his daughter raps with family or. Or Alchemist.
- [02:50]
Havoc
I mean, you know, I thought that I was getting most of the verses was like unheard verses, but like one of them was like, you know, released like 14 years ago. So, you know what I'm saying? We took wipe the dust off and you know, rocked with the songs or whatever. But most of them is just verses that nobody never heard before. Especially, you know, saying some, some that Al has, like, it's like crazy versus like for real. But you know, I was given some verses from the family and I just, you know, technology, you could just take a verse. If it's like 92 bpms, you could put it down to 88 or you can speed it up to 100. So it's like kind of seamless.
- [03:26]
DJ Envy
How was the. The family with doing this? Did the family want a new Mobb Deep album out? Were they cool with it or they were like.
- [03:31]
Havoc
Yeah, they was cool with it, they was cool with it, but they just wanted to make sure that they was part of the process and that they wasn't left out. So, you know, the first time that we started working on the album, we had Prodigy's daughter there, you know what I'm saying, and getting her blessings. And she was, you know, she was kind of got a little emotional when she was hearing her father, you know what I'm saying, as me. And I was getting emotional listening to Prodigy talk, like, you know, acapella talk about, yo, I see you on the other side and you know I love you. It's crazy.
- [03:59]
DJ Envy
What was your relationship with before he passed?
- [04:02]
Havoc
It was actually. I felt like I got my friend back, you know what I mean? Cause right before he passed, like real talk, we was shopping at Whole Foods, you know, trying to get on a healthy path. And he, after we did that, he knocked on my hotel though, like he never comes to my room, came to my room and we was just kicking it, like, just trying to go down a healthy journey. Cause you know, we had had, you know, a little dust up before that.
- [04:24]
DJ Envy
What was that dust up for? Cause I always would say Like, Mobb Deep is that one crew, right? I'm like, them. They are never like, they just so from the same area. They didn't been through beefs and this and that and problems with money. Like, they didn't been through it all. So I figured y' all were that one group that was like, nah. But y' all had a little situation.
- [04:42]
Havoc
At one point, I just say this, like, when it comes to alcohol, just stay away from social media. You know what I'm saying? Just leave that alone. Some things, like brothers go through things, but that's supposed to be behind the scenes. You feel me? So it was just built up frustration and me taking the social media. Like, I wasn't taught to go to social media. And they are my differences. So that's something that I did. And Prodigy kept it, like, real classy. Like, with it, he was, you know, saying a class general with it. He didn't even engage in that little dust up. But, you know, it was a little strain on the relationship. We broke up for like a year, then we came back together, toured, and then slowly but surely just kept building that brotherhood back.
- [05:23]
DJ Envy
And after that breakup, how did y' all get back together? Like, what was that conversation? Who reached out first or who put y' all together?
- [05:28]
Havoc
Because we both got friends in common, right? So it wasn't like, yo, okay, today y' all gonna meet up. It was like that gradual graduate, graduate, graduate. Then we just end up in the studio together, you know what I'm saying? And it was like nothing never happened, right? Like, the beat is up and we just like, yeah. You know what I'm saying? So we're gonna do X, Y and Z, and you know what I mean? But we did get a chance to kind of like, talk, you know? You know, we. I knew him since I was 15, you know what I'm saying? So that was like my brother. Brother for real, you know what I'm saying? And it was just crazy when he passed, how close we was getting before that.
- [06:03]
DJ Envy
And y' all were in Vegas when he passed, right?
- [06:05]
Havoc
Yeah, we was in Vegas. We had just did a, like, you know, one of those shows, I think Ice tv, throwing those tours with a lot of the old school artists or whatever. Nori was there, Raekwon and Ghost, and he wasn't feeling well. And, you know, I just thought it was just like one of those regular sickle cell crisis and he'll, you know, be back home in New York.
- [06:26]
Host 1
Yeah, is there? Because I know that this is. You work with Mass Appeal to drop this. Is there anything just because this is also. People are looking at this as like a comeback project or like a return project, but it's also a tribute as well.
- [06:39]
Havoc
Right?
- [06:40]
Host 1
Is there anything when people are listening to the, the music from Prodigy that we haven't heard? Like, when you were putting together and producing all of this, like, what was the message you wanted his fans to get from him and hearing him again?
- [06:50]
Havoc
Well, you, you know, I don't think that it was so much of me, like wanting a message to be put out there about Prodigy. The fans know what they wanted, you know what I mean? Like, I'm constantly getting harassed by the fans, like, yo, when you putting out that Mobb Deep album, I mean, look, I don't got no control over that, you know what I'm saying? Like, I don't own Prodigy verses. So it was a process, you know what I mean? But, you know, I hope that, you know, the supporters get from it. Like, yo, you know, P was one of the illest MCs out there and I think that, you know, he has some unfinished business.
- [07:21]
Host 1
Was there. What was the pressure like for you, if any? Because it's been, what, since 2014? Since.
- [07:27]
Havoc
Yeah, the pressure was crazy, you know what I'm saying? Because of course, you know, the music landscape been changed, you know what I'm saying? Omar Deep. But we, we stay in our lane, you know what I mean? And I just kind of like, that's all I wanted to do is just stay in our lane. I try to go above and beyond and trying to sound like I'm doing some drill music or something like that, you know what I mean? I just wanted to stay Mob deep.
- [07:48]
DJ Envy
Now you did this deal with Nas's Mass Appeal, she just mentioned.
- [07:51]
Havoc
Yeah.
- [07:52]
DJ Envy
How involved was Nas with this project and why did y' all decide to sign with the Nas and do the collaboration with Mass Appeal?
- [07:58]
Havoc
Nas kinda like took the hands off approach, you know what I mean? We trusted Nas, you know what I mean? We know him, of course, obviously since the beginning, you know what I mean? From the top. And he in position right now, you know what I mean? So we like, tons of people would have did the Mobb Deep album, you know what I mean? But at the end of the day, it was like, who do we trust? I trust Nas, you know what I mean? I'm like, okay, he over there. Mass Appeal, we sat with them and it wasn't about the money, it's just more like who would do justice to the project, you know what I mean? And we trusted Nas for that. And, you know, he took a hands off approach, but when it was time to, you know, give a little bit of critique, he gave it.
- [08:34]
DJ Envy
He did two verses on it as well.
- [08:36]
Havoc
Three.
- [08:37]
DJ Envy
He did three verses on it?
- [08:38]
Havoc
Yeah. I mean, three verses for Nas. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? I think that's a good way to go out, you know what I mean? On a Marv Deep album. That was cool, you know, featuring her, Georgia Smith, you know, do two phenomenal artists. And Porter Henny, y', know, Eclipse as.
- [08:56]
DJ Envy
Well as on the album as well. Hell, yeah, I wanted to. I see a lot of your stories have been going viral the last couple of days, right? Of course, the PAC stories always go viral, the Jay Z stories go viral. But the mind frame back then when you felt like the west coast was taking a stab at the east, right? And y' all said, nah, this can't happen. Break that down. Because y' all were probably one of the first to jump out the window and be like, we riding all day long. And how difficult was it when y' all were touring and going to these markets and seeing these people? And did you ever run into any of the people that you shot at on. I mean, on record, I should say.
- [09:28]
Havoc
Yo, check it out. Like, when you in places like Minneapolis and you see people throwing up gang signs and holding up Tupac posters, you don't even know if you gonna make it outta there. You understand what I'm saying? So that's that, you know what I mean? Never mind going to the west coast, you know what I'm saying? But, you know, back in them days, we was in our 20s, you know what I'm saying? We invincible. We like what we got. Beef is on. I'm surprised more artists in New York didn't come out swinging, you understand what I'm saying? This is nyc. And yeah, we love our west coast brethrens for sure. But we gonna let you know, if you clap at us, we gonna clap back, you know what I'm saying? You know, a couple of artists came representing New York, but not in a way where we like, yo, y' all kick it down the buildings. Like, nah, you know what I'm saying? We're not letting you do that. But it was, it was. It was a test, you know what I'm saying? Because it was serious back then. People was getting shot and things of that nature. But we came out, we survived it.
- [10:21]
DJ Envy
And I never ran into anybody on the West Coast. Y' all never ran into a PAC back in the day.
- [10:25]
Havoc
Nobody Nah. And it's not like we was hiding, you understand what I'm saying? Like, we went to. We was in la. We had to be in la, you know, to promote the project. But he passed, you know, like, when the Beef was about to be on, we came out with a project that's. We was about to hell on earth. And he got shot. You know what I'm saying? That kind of just made everything like.
- [10:45]
DJ Envy
And y' all even switch singles because that. They said the single was LA la, Right? He got killed or shot, right?
- [10:51]
Havoc
Because. No, it was Drop a Gem on him.
- [10:53]
DJ Envy
Drop a gem on them.
- [10:54]
Havoc
It was Drop a Gem on Him. We put that out and it was going on fire, like, you know what I'm saying? Hot 97, you know, part of saying another station, but I'm just saying this history. Yeah. So it was. It was. It was going viral, so to speak, for back then, you know what I mean? But then he got shot, and it's like, yo, son, let's pull the record. Like, me and Pete, like, yo, let's pull it. Not even the label saying that. And we pulled the record. And then eventually, he. He definitely passed away. So it was like, damn. But we put it on the album.
- [11:21]
Host 1
And pulling the record, I mean, I know it's common sense to be like, okay, you pulling it. Because now things are, like, so serious. But in that moment when y' all made that decision, the conversations, like, I think a lot of people hear these stories, too. And it just sounds like it's like kind of like almost like a folktale to us. But you were like, in that moment, like, what's the feeling of, like, is it okay we want to pull it? Because we just don't even want to be involved in this anymore, even though you already there. Or is it, like, out of respect? Like, what's the real.
- [11:47]
Havoc
Like. Like, for real, for real?
- [11:48]
Host 1
Yeah.
- [11:49]
Havoc
Like, why?
- [11:49]
Host 1
Why pull it? Because at that point, y' all are already like, we here. We doing this. Like, we poking out our chest.
- [11:54]
Havoc
Look, at the end of the day, he was a brother. He was our brother. Like, we might have had beef with him and all of that, but we don't wish death on nobody. You understand what I'm saying? And we not that thirsty. Like, to be like, whatever he did, like, keep it moving. Like, that would have been bad taste anyway. You know what I'm saying? It would have been tasteless. So we just was like, nah, just pull it. You know what I mean?
- [12:14]
DJ Envy
You know, your relationship with Big was not the best.
- [12:20]
Havoc
What you what do you mean?
- [12:21]
DJ Envy
Like, was it. Was it good? Because I thought the relationship wasn't necessarily the greatest. You and B. I G. Oh, for real?
- [12:25]
Havoc
Me? Me and B.G. we got the same birthday.
- [12:27]
DJ Envy
Oh, I didn't know that. Did y' all ever have conversations the same. Because y' all were both getting shot at like crazy. Did y' all ever have conversations like, let's do this together right now?
- [12:37]
Havoc
Unfortunately, that's another one that passed away so early. You understand what I'm saying? Because, you know, Puff said, yo, come to the studio. I need you to do some music with Big. I didn't even know the locks gonna be on the song Last Days. So I'm in there doing that he room because I guess he was recording like crazy back then, you know? You know what I mean? So we never got a chance to really have a conversation. We went on tour together. You know what I'm saying? The last memories I have of Big is being in Ohio, and we supposed to go on. But Big was like, f that I'm going on before y'. All. Cause they spraying mace in the crowd. Like. Like. Like, you know, like, the gang members is wilder. I didn't even know Ohio had gangs like that. But those are the memories I have with him. So we didn't get a chance to, like, really kick it, kick it. But I think if had he lived longer, we'd have probably been partying together. You know what I'm saying? Same birthday, Gemini twin.
- [13:30]
Host 1
How did watching, you know, the death of Tupac and then of Biggie change how you felt about just being an artist at the time? Like, were you scared?
- [13:37]
DJ Envy
But did it change? Because y' all ain't stopped beefing. Y' all kept going. Y' all never stop.
- [13:41]
Havoc
Nah, you know what? To be honest with you, it was like. I felt it was mad disrespectful. You understand what I'm saying? For, like, it's like, no. Like, you just killing artists. Like, y' all just. You know what I'm saying? I understand. You know what I'm saying? Artists as human beings. But it's like, no respect for the artist. Like, y' all just murking the artist. So that had me super concerned. Like, you know, I'm like, wow. Like, it's. You know, you already got your concerns when you going on tour and making sure you safe. But now just. People just get out of here. Like, bye. You going. You. Nah, that was crazy.
- [14:15]
DJ Envy
You know what I always wanted to ask? I always tell everybody, if we have a hip hop Conversation. My favorite beat ever, and I think I told you before, is shook ones, right? It's just when you think of hip hop, there's nothing that out hip hop, Shook ones, just a raw, just uncut. It doesn't sound like it's ever filtered. It just doesn't feel like it's never mixed. And it just feels like that. But I also feel like when. A lot of times when they talk about some of the greatest producers in this industry and in the game, they don't mention you, right? How does that make you feel? Cause they'll mention the drays. They'll mention, right, so many other people. But I never. A lot of times I don't hear havoc.
- [14:51]
Havoc
I mean, you know, it could get frustrating. You know what I'm saying? It get frustrating, you know, when. When your name is not being mentioned, when you feel like it should be mentioned. But at the same time, we never got nominated for Grammys, and I'm sure we had albums that was platinum and gold during the time when other artists were platinum, gold and that, you know, and we never got nominated. So I just feel like it's in the same vein. But you know what? My peers, you know what I'm saying, When I see them, like, I just seen Dr. Dre the other day. He like, yo, you inspired me. And I'm looking at him like, what? Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, you inspired me. But I feel him. I understand what he's saying. Cause we all inspire each other. So things like that kind of negate the frustration I feel of not being mentioned. Because I could see somebody like Dr. Dre and they be like, yo, son, like, you know what I mean? That's all I be needing.
- [15:39]
DJ Envy
That's all you need. Same thing with Prodigy. With lyrics, though. I think a lot of people don't necessarily understand how nice he was lyrically. He doesn't get into a lot of those conversations as well either.
- [15:48]
Havoc
He don't. But then you have somebody like Jay Z, if you ask him a question about Prodigy, he'd be like, prodigy was one of those ones. You understand what I'm saying? So when people don't involve them in the conversation, but they rapper's favorite rapper is screaming, they, like not screaming they name, but giving them the credit. I think sometimes that's the just do. Sometimes eventually the generations that's gonna come after us when they start doing a little investigation like we used to do with the. Maybe not y', all because they're a little younger, but, you know, with the 70s. Like, we pulling, like James Brown. We pulling all these stylistic Blue Magic. They gonna start pulling those Mob Deep records and being like, damn, what's this? This sounded crazier than all that other stuff that's supposed to be top 40, you know what I mean?
- [16:30]
DJ Envy
Yeah. And how you mentioned Jay. How did that beef ever start? And do you ever regret never producing for hov? Is that one of the things you say off top?
- [16:38]
Havoc
Of course. You know what I'm saying? As a producer, you want to produce.
- [16:41]
DJ Envy
For the best, you produce for every New York. Great.
- [16:44]
Havoc
But that one, right? That's the one I'm chasing, you know what I mean? But shout out to hov. But look, when that beef happened, I had to stand with my brother.
- [16:55]
DJ Envy
How did it start?
- [16:56]
Havoc
Oh, it started because back to what we was talking about with the, you know, Snoop. And so Snoop came through and crushed the buildings and crushed the buildings. And then we came with LA la. And then I think Prodigy seen an article with. Wait, matter of fact, I think Jay Z says something in his line about New York Miss off since he didn't appreciate it. And then he said something in a magazine and called hold out his name. Hov, is it, you know, saying this is a contact sport. He. You know what I'm saying? He in his prom, he going right back at Prodigy. So it. It just started right there, right?
- [17:30]
DJ Envy
Do you feel like that beef hurt my deep?
- [17:34]
Havoc
I'm not gonna say that it. It hurt Mal deep, but it. It could have did a little. A little nice little delay, you know what I mean? Because when you got somebody like that just coming at you, you know what I'm saying? It's like it start chipping away at, you know, that armor.
- [17:49]
DJ Envy
I always wanted to know what Nas said during that time when y'.
- [17:51]
Havoc
All.
- [17:51]
DJ Envy
Cause y' all were all beefing together, right? Did Nas ever say, yo, let's do this together? Like, what was that conversation like?
- [17:56]
Havoc
Nah, he was on his lone wolf real quick, you know what I mean? He came out with that ether. It was like, you know what I mean? Nobody saw it coming, you know what I mean? We never ever had a conversation about, like, yo, yeah, man, let's go get him.
- [18:09]
DJ Envy
Let's jump him. Let's jump him. Nah, that was never the conversation.
- [18:13]
Host 1
What myths about Mobb Deep do you hear and you don't correct or you hear and you kind of laugh at. I know there's the one with the hi hat sound and, like, the burner, and I'm still kind of confused about that. Was it A real burner. Or was it not? I saw two different answers at one point in time. But there's a lot of myths out there about you guys that you sometimes you say are better than the actual story, so you just let it rock.
- [18:35]
Havoc
I mean, the one that you just said with the stove, like, you know what I mean? Everybody keeps saying, like, it's the stove, it's the stove. I'm not gonna tell them if it's the stove or not. I just love the mystique of the stove. It's like, that's a dope stuff. Break down the stove.
- [18:47]
DJ Envy
Cause people are like, what the hell y' all talking about?
- [18:48]
Host 1
So in Shook Ones, part two, there's the flicking sound, and it sounds like you, You. You know how you crank up the stove and it's like, click, click, click, click, click. Yeah. So at one point I thought I saw an interview from you, and you said that it was a stove and you recorded it. I think that was drink champs. And then I saw another interview where it was a high hat that you used, right?
- [19:06]
Havoc
Yeah, yeah. I be messing with them. You know what I'm saying? I just be messing with them. Like, I'm never gonna reveal that one.
- [19:12]
Host 1
Why?
- [19:13]
Havoc
Because just the, you know, it sounds better, you know, than the actual truth, so.
- [19:19]
Host 1
And I know you guys got the comic book series that kind of leans into all of the myths about Mobb Deep as you guys, Slick Rick, Ghostface, Nas. It's like a one time only series. So are y' all talking about more of the myths in that limited comic book series, or is it just something that they're putting?
- [19:34]
Havoc
Well, when they was making it, they was asking me, like, what you think your strengths would be if you would be, you know, saying a, you know, a superhero or whatever. And he was asking me what I think prodigy strengths would be. And I just kind of gave them that. Like, you know, everybody wanted to fly, be like Superman or have some kind of secret power. You know what I mean? So I don't think it added to us like any kind of myth, but more along the lines of, like, if you had superpowers, what would you. Which one would you pick?
- [19:59]
Host 1
Gotcha. I thought it was gonna lean into, like, all of the old, like, the hip hop stories that we hear that we don't ever get real answers to.
- [20:04]
Havoc
That's a good angle. I like that. Might have to massive pill up and start, you know what I mean? Revamp some of the ideas with the.
- [20:12]
Host 1
Rollout right now that you're doing. Because a lot of those conversations are coming back up. People are learning it for the first time. How different is. Is it for you now promoting your music and having these conversations with social media versus, you know, not even the last album, but like, early on days when y' all were running around, I.
- [20:27]
Havoc
Mean, it's way different because now, you know, back in them days, we didn't have no social media. We didn't have none of that. So, you know, the things that we doing now, like hitting mad podcasts up and things of that nature, it feels kind of different. But it's the work that you put in when you putting out a project, you know what I'm saying? I love doing it. I love this time. You know what I mean? I get to really show what Mobb Deep is all about.
- [20:51]
DJ Envy
What artists came to you for a beat and you turned them down, and then you kind of went back and like, damn, I should have did that beat. Was there any one of those artists?
- [21:00]
Havoc
Damn, I don't think so. I. I don't think so. You know, when I. When I do work with artists, you know, nine times out of ten, I'm feeling them, you know what I mean? But if I didn't want to work with an artist, they definitely didn't hear back from me. You know what I'm saying?
- [21:15]
DJ Envy
What beat did you give away? You wish you didn't give away? You would have kept to yourself.
- [21:19]
Havoc
Nah, I. Oh, every track that I gave away, I was fine with. You know what I mean? I don't think I gave away anything.
- [21:26]
DJ Envy
Now I always like to ask. Cause these are my two favorite beats. My two favorite hip hop beats. I want you to break down when you created shk ones and when you created Choirstore.
- [21:36]
Havoc
Right?
- [21:36]
DJ Envy
And whose choice was it to put of every artist out there? Why Lil Kim? So let's start off with breaking out Shook ones. So where were you when you made Create. When you made Shook ones. And did you know that was gonna.
- [21:45]
Havoc
Be what it was? Shook ones. I made that in my. In Queens Ridge, in my mom's apartment, where I grew up at, right? Dirty records all over the floor. Scratch pop vinyl. Didn't even really know what I was doing. Then the crew came in the crib, Prodigy all. And they said, what's this? I was like, oh, it's whatever, whatever. I'm about to turn the computer, you know, the drum machine. No, no, no, no. Don't, don't, don't turn it off. Keep it. Kept it. We did a song to it, actually. We had a Shook once part Two and then part one, and then. Then this became part two, and it took off. I had no idea it was going to do that. Quiet Storm. I ran out of samples. You know what I mean? I ran out of anything to sample. So I'm just looking at this Sugar Hill Gang record, like, damn, let me just try you for now. Because I. That's a record that I always pass, like, you know, white lines and all of that. Nobody's not putting that on. You know what I mean? So put that on, Sampled it. I said, let me slow it down. Maybe, like, you know, slow it down, throw some rim shots to it. And just did it. Didn't think nothing of it. Prodigy used to come to my house, go in the basement to the studio while I'm asleep. And then when I went down, he's like, yo, have. What's this? I was like, it's whatever. It wasn't nothing. And he did a whole solo song to it. And then we ended up making it the first single on. I Believe it Was Murder Music. And I was kind of a little upset by then. Cause Chris Lighty, God bless the day, he was like, yo, we making this the first single. I'm like, yo, I'm not on it. You know what I'm saying? He was like, but you made the beat. And I think that was the time when. Now everybody's just looking at me as a producer and not even a rapper. So that was a. That's another story, you know what I mean? That I'm getting looked at just as a producer, when I just be trying to, like, you know, write my life away on the paper. But it's all good.
- [23:28]
DJ Envy
And then how did y' all get. What was the decision to put Little Kim? Why Little Kim? Of all the female MCs at that time, why Kim?
- [23:34]
Havoc
I mean, come on, Envy. You know what time it is. We go in the club right now, Mobb Deep's in the club. It's a sausage fest, Right? You know what I'm saying? So we like, yo, we need to. We need to get the chicks involved. Who we could get. Who we could get. Little Kim. And she agreed to do it. I went to the studio. I seen her in there writing her verse. She sung my hook over. I'm telling you, that record took off. Off like you couldn't.
- [23:56]
DJ Envy
It was genius. It was to the day where you could put out a street record and it could be a single. And to this day, it's one of Kim's biggest verses. It just connects. Hot damn. Ho. Here we go again.
- [24:07]
Havoc
And she got that little. The dance that she do.
- [24:09]
Host 1
To this day still. To this day.
- [24:11]
DJ Envy
To this day.
- [24:12]
Host 1
Yeah. I was thinking about. You mentioned, like, going in the club and, like, using that and bringing that back into the music. Maybe some artists do that now, but I think a lot of artists are geared toward, like, TikTok and numbers and research because the industry has changed.
- [24:23]
Havoc
Right.
- [24:23]
Host 1
Envy always talks about how lit the club scene in New York was and all the artists and all the things.
- [24:29]
DJ Envy
Like, I always tell her that everybody used to be outside when we was. Like, it was. There were no. I would say rich or broke. It was the dude from the block on the left side, right Mobb Deep on the right, Hov in this corner, Kim and him on this side. You would see Nas was always in a cup by himself somehow, some way, wiggling in and out. You would see the Lost Boys. You would just see so many. You would see everybody in the club, and you would see how music reacts. And like you said, it wouldn't matter. You play the gangster's record, Girls is rapping, dudes is rapping, and we would go from club to club, night to night, and it was just a feeling. In New York, I always tell about that. You just could never change.
- [25:09]
Havoc
It was just.
- [25:10]
DJ Envy
Just something about that.
- [25:12]
Havoc
I mean, it was an amazing time, you know what I mean? Like, when street records was. You was able to dance to it. You didn't have to make a. A radio record, you know what I mean? But once your record took off in the clubs, you was kind of like, pretty much out of there. I think the clubs dictated hits, which.
- [25:32]
Host 1
Is not as much anywhere. And I know you got the. The tour that you're going on with Raekwon.
- [25:36]
Havoc
Yep, we got that. The 30th anniversary of the Cuban Links and the infamous album we're gonna do, the US, you know, about like 18 dates or whatever, and. And that's dope. Actually got rehearsal with Raekwon later on today. You know what I mean? Cause we taking it serious. Like, you know, we some OGs, you know what I'm saying? Gotta do our two steps, make sure we good.
- [25:54]
DJ Envy
I wanted to know, too, when you signed with 50, when y' all did the deal with 50. Yeah, break that down. And why y' all decided to sign that deal? And where were y' all at that point as far as Mobb Deep to go?
- [26:04]
Havoc
I mean, if you get offered some Ferraris, you not gonna sign a deal?
- [26:07]
DJ Envy
Absolutely.
- [26:08]
Havoc
But, nah, 50 called me. We was free agents at that point. I Think we had been on Jive.
- [26:13]
DJ Envy
Yep.
- [26:14]
Havoc
We sold 150,000 records the first week. That wasn't good enough. A job today, I mean, that's like, probably platinum or something like that, you know?
- [26:20]
DJ Envy
Absolutely. But it was happy with 30,000.
- [26:23]
Havoc
Exactly. So I guess we was ahead of our time. Or not, whatever it is. But 50 called me. I. And I had already worked with 50, like maybe a year before that. He was bubbling on the mixtape, I remember. And he was one of my favorite artists, you know what I'm saying? We did bump dad and clap those things or whatever. And that was supposed to be for my solo album. Loud folded. Never came out. And then the next, you know, a year later, somebody named 50 Cent is just going bubbling right. So we kept that relationship going, and by the time we became free agents, he gave me a call, said, I want to sign y'. All. He swept us up into the G Unit umbrella, went on tour, and the rest was history. Why?
- [27:02]
DJ Envy
How come you never signed more artists? Cause you. You were the producer.
- [27:05]
Havoc
You were the artist.
- [27:06]
DJ Envy
How come you did? Because you could have, I'm sure, signed 50 early on. Besides Big Noy, who did?
- [27:09]
Havoc
Y' all true. You know what it is? I guess I haven't ever found an artist that I truly like. Yo, like, I can. I just don't want to sign somebody just to sign some, like, I guess my. My. My bar is high, you know? I really want to sign that artist now. There's an artist that I did want to sign that she wasn't signed at the time. It was a Jasmine Sullivan. She just came in to, like, write, because back then I was, like, getting people to throw reference vocals. And Steve, I was working with Stevie J, and he knew her and got her to the studio, and I was like, God damn. I was like, yo, she's nice. You know what I mean? But she's one of those artists that, you know is gonna get a major record deal and get signed. You gotta come with the business if you wanna sign a Jasmine Sullivan. But, for instance, like, I don't run across artists like that all the time. And those are the artists that I really wanna. You know what I mean? And they few and far between.
- [28:01]
Host 1
So you didn't sign her only because the deal situation wasn't gonna be what you thought it should be. Or, like, how did that not move forward?
- [28:06]
Havoc
I wasn't ready, you know what I'm saying? I ain't gonna lie. You know, female artists is, like, high maintenance, you know what I'm saying? It come with a Lot, you know what I'm saying? Not to. You know what I'm saying?
- [28:14]
Host 1
I mean. Cause you got glam and branding and Jasmine jeans.
- [28:21]
DJ Envy
That's it.
- [28:21]
Host 1
Yeah. No, our T shirt and jeans is a little different, but Jasmine Sullivan is one of the best singers, period, in the game. Right. But I feel like it took people so long. It was hotels for me when people even started recognizing her the way that they should have. And she had been working for so long before that, so I'm sure a lot of money was poured into that.
- [28:38]
DJ Envy
Absolutely.
- [28:38]
Host 1
So I understand what you're saying, but y' all didn't even have a conversation and attempt to see, like, what she would save to your offer.
- [28:45]
Havoc
I had the conversation in my mind, you know what I'm saying? Like, I. I wish that I. I, you know, because I was just, you know, I was in my own way, you know what I mean? But the artists in me wanted her to shine, you know what I mean? And not even, you know, try to get in her way. But, you know, that's what it is. Like, I never come across artists of that caliber. It's really hard, right? Like, you know, so that's why I.
- [29:08]
Host 1
Want to go back to the 50 Cent signing y' all conversation. I know when you guys signed with 50 and Drop Music, a lot of the fans were happy about that.
- [29:16]
Havoc
Yeah. Because you know why I always say it like this? Fans are like your parents, right? They never want to see the. The kids grow, right? Oh, I want you to stay, my baby Please don't get older. And that's what artists are to the supporters and fans, right? They never want to see them go outside the box or grow or a little bit commercial, right? Because it just ruined, you know, that. That relationship that they have. And I believe that the. Our fans, right, because it probably was a mix of the audiences together. Like, on one hand, 50 is grimy, right? Like, he got the streets on lock, but then he went super commercial, right? And sometimes, you know, the streets, they. They kind of resent that commercialness, you know what I'm saying, Of an artist going that big because they just want that foundational music. And they probably was scared that once we signed the G Unit, that we was probably gonna become this commercial group. But it couldn't have been further from.
- [30:08]
Host 1
The truth, because the point of y' all signing that deal was you wanted that expansion of the brand and the business. Do you feel like at that point, y'. Because when you released from the contract, there was no more business with 50 after, right? No, and was that because of the way that the fans reacted or.
- [30:21]
Havoc
No, no, no, no, it wasn't because of that. I think it was a lot of different factors surrounding that whole G Unit, Interscope thing. You know, I think 50 was getting pushed back at Interscope regardless of anything because he was just so, you know, strong minded, you know what I mean? And at that time, it's like, okay, we sold this amount of records. All right, go ahead. Do. Do what y' all need to do. Because 50 was fighting really hard to push us, and he was getting a lot of pushback. Like, MTV wasn't having it, you know, I mean, they was like, play what? Mob Deep Weird. You know what I'm saying? And he would just sneak us on TRL with him, you know what I mean? Like, come on, you know, I mean, they didn't want us there.
- [31:01]
Host 1
Why not?
- [31:02]
Havoc
Because we.
- [31:03]
Host 1
We.
- [31:03]
Havoc
We don't fit into the genre of.
- [31:05]
Host 1
Music y' all wearing.
- [31:06]
Havoc
Yeah, we don't. We from the streets. Like, you know what? You know, they, you know, they gatekeeping a little bit up there. They like, nah, we good. You know what I'm saying? Give us somebody else.
- [31:16]
Host 1
Do you feel like, because I asked the question to get here, do you feel like because of the box, I guess, that the fans kind of put you guys in. It hurt Mobb Deep as a business. Looking back then to where. Where things are now, man, it's different.
- [31:29]
Havoc
Ways to look at that. I would say no, right, because staying true to your fan base is cool. You know what I'm saying? I mean, you don't really want to do nothing outside of that. Like, I'm not trying to make no pop records with, like, Christina Aguilera and all of that stuff. I mean, you know what I mean? Because it's not who I am now. The music just becomes fake. You understand? But if I was of that, then sure, we'll make it. Like, certain artists was able to do that, but that wasn't Mal Deep now. And if we was gonna go that direction, we should have started that early on. But that. That wasn't Mal Deep. We started grassroots from the bottom. Like, you know, I do got a question.
- [32:04]
DJ Envy
You produce for Big 50, Nas, Meth, Kanye West, Eminem, ll, Mariah, just to name a few. Who was your favorite to work with besides Prodigy? Who was your favorite to work with, with production, and why?
- [32:17]
Havoc
My favorite artists to work with that I produce for, I would have to say probably was, like, Jadakiss. Why a little Kim? Because those are artists that I really respect and Reveal. I mean, like, Jadakiss is, like, one of the best lyricists out there. So, like, to work with him, you know, is. It's a pleasure because he compliments your beat so well. You could give him a trash beat, and he'll make it sound good. You understand what I'm saying? So it was. It was really a pleasure because he. And he, you know, he's kind of humble when it comes to, you know, being in the studio and the artist, he. He wanted the producer to take him in that direction.
- [32:58]
DJ Envy
Now you're very humble. And now with production, what was your favorite beat to produce?
- [33:02]
Havoc
My why, you know what I'm saying, by Jadakiss? Because I just, you know, it wasn't really too much of a big deal for me when I made the beat. I mean, the beat is not don't got crazy bells and whistles, but as you can see, it's minimum production. But he just turns it into this whole big production, you know what I mean? With Anthony Hamilton, then he's questioning, going, why? Why this? Why that? You know, at times when we got a. So I love doing that for him.
- [33:30]
DJ Envy
Also wanted to ask, right, besides why, what was the most difficult track to get cleared?
- [33:36]
Havoc
To get cleared? To get cleared. The most difficult track to get cleared probably was. We did a print sample one time.
- [33:49]
DJ Envy
Did he clear it?
- [33:50]
Havoc
Hell, no.
- [33:51]
Host 1
I was gonna say. Cause he ain't clearing nothing.
- [33:54]
DJ Envy
So you had to send it to Prince.
- [33:55]
Havoc
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we sent it. And he was like, hell, I was in the studio with you. And. But, little bro, we ain't cleared that.
- [34:01]
DJ Envy
You was in the studio, Prince.
- [34:02]
Havoc
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was me playing the studio where you Havoc and Prodigy was in the studio, and Snoop was there, too.
- [34:08]
DJ Envy
Explain that how Prince.
- [34:09]
Havoc
Snoop made the post.
- [34:11]
DJ Envy
So what happened?
- [34:12]
Havoc
So I was in the studio one time. Electric Lady. Electric Lady, Electric Lady. I think he even owned the studio at one point. It's right there on West 4th street or whatever it was. So I'm in there, we working on an album. I forget what album it was. And one of my homeboys that I used to just have driving me around was like, yo, Prince is outside. I'm like, get the F out of here. You crazy. You bug it. Yo, Prince walked in my session, yo.
- [34:33]
DJ Envy
Like, leather pants on.
- [34:35]
Havoc
N. He didn't. No, he didn't. He didn't have leather pants on. But he was like my height, and I'm short, like, you know what I'm saying? I was like, damn. But, you know, but his presence is just, like, crazy and he started helping me with the keys and playing on the keys, and then just whisked away, just left that. Didn't even get a picture with him. No, nothing back then. I don't even think the phones was ready for pictures back then. You know what I mean? But that was my Prince story.
- [35:00]
DJ Envy
So what was the beat?
- [35:01]
Havoc
So he.
- [35:01]
DJ Envy
So y' all.
- [35:01]
Havoc
Actually, it was some song that ended up, I think Thou Shalt Not Kill. Yeah. Yeah. I forgot where it ended up at. But, you know, it was Snoop on the record, Prince on the keys, and we just rapping. And you wouldn't even be able to tell that Prince played any keys on it, because it was just really simple. But the fact that he did, you know what I'm saying, is something that I definitely would never forget. That's crazy.
- [35:26]
DJ Envy
I thought you're gonna say Godfather Part three because.
- [35:28]
Havoc
Well, that was a hard sample to clear, too. That. That. How did you.
- [35:32]
DJ Envy
How did you. Because that was my movie.
- [35:34]
Havoc
I mean, that's. That's Steve Rifky Magic, you know, say Steve Rifky, he know how to do business to clear some samples. So we definitely cleared that.
- [35:42]
Host 1
I saw a report that that song actually wasn't that on the infamous archives, but you guys didn't approve it.
- [35:48]
Havoc
Maybe it was. I. I. So long ago, I don't even remember. But you. You probably right. You know what I mean? So fuzzy.
- [35:55]
Host 1
Y' all got some memories?
- [35:57]
Havoc
No.
- [35:57]
DJ Envy
You got so many memories. Yeah, I would say you do. You get paid. Every time I see one of these stores sell a Mob Deep, the infamous Mob Deep shirts. Do y' all get paid over that?
- [36:05]
Havoc
Well, if it's official merch, yes. But I combat infringement every day, yo. I mean, they just. They. I mean. And it looks so good. Like, I want to buy it.
- [36:15]
DJ Envy
I don't know if I should support it or not.
- [36:18]
Havoc
I'm like, wow. You know, sometimes I go to shows and they be having on this merch that I know Mal Deep didn't sanction. I don't want to say nothing to him, but if we having problems, imagine Wu Tang. It's the most. No. So these are things that we got to combat every day that people don't even understand. Like, they say, oh, it's so easy to be an artist. And you. Y' all just sit back and go to shows. Nah, there's a business aspect where you got to protect the trademark. It's serious.
- [36:45]
Host 1
What's the fight? I mean, it is very serious. Especially because y' all have so many years of so much History. And y' all fans spin across so many age ranges. What's the fight like right now, though? Like, are there certain stores or people? Like, where are you even aiming to. Because y' all stuff is everywhere.
- [37:01]
DJ Envy
Everywhere.
- [37:02]
Havoc
I mean, look, we, we do license deals with, with certain brands, whether it be, you know, whoever, like supreme or things. And that's another story, you know, I mean, we had a horrible time over there that something happened and they used the image and we got sued. It was like crazy. But those are things that you have to like, kind of watch out for. But we license out the brand sometimes, you know what I mean? But more than not, infringement is rampant.
- [37:33]
DJ Envy
So what's supremely. Y' all used a picture that y' all didn't take. And the photographer came back and was.
- [37:37]
Host 1
Like, it was the dragon image.
- [37:39]
Havoc
It was the dragon image. You know what I'm saying? And I kind of fucked up, forgot about it because I got the tattoo. So I'm not even really thinking about it. I think in the late 90s, early 2000s, they had used the image in some group, I'm not going to say their name, said, oh, that's out. And nobody knows them. They probably got like, no lie, 200 followers on Instagram. Nobody knows them, you know what I'm saying? But they took advantage of an opportunity. It is a federally trademarked image, you know what I'm saying? They got the rights. And they told us back in the 90s, hey, stop. And then I forgot. Supreme was like, yo, is this yours? I was like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. But, you know, the lawyers was like, okay, we're going to check it, right? That's the lawyer's job. They didn't check it. The lawyer said, like, I'm a check it. You understand what I'm saying? I'm like, all right, cool. You know, go check it. I'm making beats like, you know, I mean, go ahead. But you got to really be diligent because getting sued is not fun. It's not funny, it costs a lot of money. You have to answer it. And we settled, of course. And it's just you giving away free money, right? You understand hard working money. So.
- [38:51]
DJ Envy
And I meant to ask, you know, with all the stuff that, that you produced and, and all of the records that you've done, do you get all your money from that stuff? Cause you hear a lot of times that, that when artists do something, they don't get their money. Somebody else gets the money. Do y'. All, do you get all your money from that?
- [39:05]
Havoc
I was fortunate enough to do a publishing deal early. That was super fair, right. I didn't sign away all my publishing. And I'm down with people that collect diligently, you know what I'm saying? Things. But, you know, of course there's going to be corners, pockets in the world where you're not collecting and then new forms pop up. They like, oh, yeah, back in the days, y' all didn't know that this was over here and y' all could collect the bag. And there's a bag sitting over there, right, like overseas somewhere for whatever it is. But for the most part, we get our bread, like for. For real. You know what I mean? I hear horror stories and I feel bad for artists and whoever took advantage of them, you know what I'm saying? They need to be, you know, it's a special place for them.
- [39:42]
Host 1
I was going to ask, what's the biggest bag you ever. You ever missed out on? Because just business wise, you didn't plan for that.
- [39:48]
Havoc
The biggest bag I missed out on was for a Super bowl commercial. They wanted to use the Mob Deep music in the super bowl commercial. And for whatever reason, a lawyer took too long and we missed out on the opportunity. So, yeah, that hurt. Still hurt.
- [40:07]
DJ Envy
So you're doing this album as a passion project. Cause obviously you don't need the money if you're still getting paid, like you said.
- [40:12]
Havoc
I ain't say that.
- [40:14]
DJ Envy
Infinite is out this Friday, and we appreciate you for joining us, man. I love these stories and I just love to see the growth because I was a kid in Queens and I watched what y' all did and we admire that. You know, I mean, from the driving the cars, the shooting the Shook Ones video to all that, we got a chance to see it. So the fact that you're still heavy and you're still doing it, man, we appreciate you, bro.
- [40:34]
Host 1
And this is how we got a date for the Method Man Covid album.
- [40:37]
Havoc
Oh, yeah, the Method Man Kobe. We don't have a date, but me and him are actively in the studio. And he tried to put me in the headlock. I didn't let him. But he said we gotta finish this album. Yeah.
- [40:46]
Host 1
Actively, for a couple months. We wait for a date, but. Okay.
- [40:48]
Havoc
I know we'll have one soon, though.
- [40:50]
Host 1
Thanks for joining us, though.
- [40:51]
Havoc
Thank you. Thanks for having me.
- [40:52]
DJ Envy
Album comes out this Friday. It's havoc. It's the Breakfast Club. Good morning. Every day I wake up.
- [40:59]
Havoc
Wake your ass up. It's the Breakfast Club. Y' all finished or y' all done?
- [41:04]
Hunter (Black Effect Podcast Host)
I'M Hunter, host of Hunting for Answers on the Black Effect Podcast Network. Join me every weekday as I share bite sized stories of missing and murdered Black women and girls in America. Stories like Erica Hunt, a young mother vanished without a trace after a family gathering on 4th of July weekend 2016. No goodbyes, no clues, just gone. Listen to Hunting for Answers every weekday on the Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [41:39]
Host 1
This is an I heart podcast.