INTERVIEW: Jess & Rome Talk 'Til Death Do We Parent,' Co-Parenting, Life’s Struggles & Lessons +More

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Breakfast Club – Jess & Rome on "’Til Death Do We Parent," Co-Parenting, Life’s Struggles & Lessons

Episode Date: May 1, 2026
Hosts: DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, Charlamagne Tha God
Guests: Jess Hilarious, Rome (Ashton’s father)
Main Topic: Honest conversation about co-parenting, lessons from their new book ’Til Death Do We Parent, personal growth, and navigating family challenges.

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1. Episode Overview

This episode brings together comedian Jess Hilarious and her co-parent, Rome, for an honest, vulnerable, and often humorous examination of co-parenting after their breakup. The discussion centers around Jess’s new book, '’Til Death Do We Parent', reflecting on past mistakes, personal evolution, navigating different parenting styles, family dynamics, and how honest dialogue and support can foster healthy co-parenting—even after deep hurt.

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2. Key Discussion Points & Insights

A. Immediate Reactions to the Book ([02:16]-[04:28])

• Rome admits the first chapter of Jess’s book could paint him negatively, especially regarding the postpartum period.
  • “[After] women read it, they gonna hate me… if you read the first chapter, it’s gonna be like I was a dog… I didn’t do any of that during postpartum.” (Rome, 03:04)
• Rome clarifies the timeline, stating certain events were mischaracterized but praises the book’s transparency and their shared growth.
• Charlamagne: “If people read past the first chapter, you get to the growth and evolution.”

B. Public Perceptions & Social Media ([04:27]-[04:39])

• Rome laments how people may only see social media clips, misinterpret them, and form unfair judgments.

C. Honest Accountability & Growth ([04:42]-[05:33])

• Rome acknowledges his actions and choices:
  • “None of it really hurt me, because I own up to what I do. I ain’t never been ashamed… I decided to make those choices.”
• He admires Jess’s ability to now talk openly about their difficulties.

D. Revisiting the Past & Family Dynamics ([05:33]-[08:28])

• They reflect on early years, initial relationship motives, and the pain of realizing the family “picture” wasn’t real.
  • Jess admits she initially wanted to keep Rome more than the child, wanting family fulfillment.
• Rome confesses he wished things were different but doesn’t regret choices as they both needed to grow.

E. Staying Together for the Child ([07:37]-[08:40])

• Rome admits that without their son Ashton, he and Jess wouldn’t have stayed together. Ashton was “the glue.”
• “If there was no Ashton, we’d have went our separate ways. It was easy to go separate ways with no tie.” (Rome, 08:40)

F. Cheating, Double Standards & Communication ([09:28]-[14:43])

• Rome describes his cheating as reactional to relationship difficulties, not premeditated.
• Rome recognizes the emotional pain in their conflicts, especially around accusations regarding Ashton’s paternity.
• Both admit to actions and double standards (“I can do it, but you can’t”) and discuss overthinking, assumptions, and communication breakdowns.

G. Men’s Vulnerability & Societal Pressure ([15:06]-[16:16])

• Rome talks about society’s lack of support for men expressing feelings:
  • “Nobody cares about how men actually feel… when men try to open up… y’all laugh at me until it’s too late.”

H. Co-Parenting Philosophy & Grace ([16:16]-[22:53])

• Rome’s book title idea: “Let a flower be a father. Not when it’s convenient for you.” ([16:26])
• Both emphasize not using kids as weapons (“I gave Rome a lot of grace… I was doing my ish too… but once we started going back and forth… I got tired of that.” - Jess, [18:41])
• Jess’s mother played a key role by not enabling negative dynamics and advocating for fairness.

I. Evolution of Co-Parenting; Setting Aside Ego ([21:20]-[22:16])

• Co-parenting improved only once Rome removed feelings and ego, trusting Jess to handle new relationships appropriately.

J. Exploring Childhood Trauma and Its Impact ([23:00]-[24:22])

• Rome discusses the profound effect of losing his mother young, how it shaped his need for affection, and how it influenced his approach to relationships and parenting.

K. Handling Multiple Households & Co-Parents ([25:04]-[33:43])

• Rome has five children with multiple women and addresses the challenges of maintaining healthy relationships with each co-parent.
• He admits sometimes his only way to see his child was to rekindle things with the mother.
• Humor and real talk about mishaps at family events (e.g., bringing a new woman to his son’s first birthday party) ([33:06]-[34:01]):
  • “So the song was… ‘That b*tch don’t belong to me…’” (Rome, [34:16])
  • Jess: “You walk in a party late… wearing all white, looking bad… you thought you was Stevie J…” ([35:09])

L. Family & Friends’ Role in Conflict ([41:20]-[42:46])

• Rome cautions against involving family/friends in co-parenting disputes—it complicates matters and impacts the child.

M. Differences in Parenting Styles ([45:17]-[47:38])

• Jess is structured and strict during the week; Rome is the “fun,” lenient weekend parent:
  • “There’s no rules on the weekend… the weekends just fun, man.” (Rome, [45:47])
• They discuss the need for “deprogramming” Ashton after weekends of leniency.

N. Ongoing Reflections and Growth ([49:58]-[52:10])

• Both acknowledge they see things differently as they mature and strive to give each other grace.
• Jess: “I always was able to give grace and see the bigger picture… this is my friend.” ([50:42])

O. Money, Manhood & Mother Wounds ([53:36]-[54:42])

• Rome candidly shares how a financial windfall led to womanizing as an unhealthy coping mechanism for unresolved emotional wounds.
  • “When that money came, oh, I can get women to do whatever… that was the goal. Cause it made me feel better. It blocked all the pain and hurt that I had.” ([54:03])

P. Unique Success & Support ([55:47]-[61:07])

• Jess and Rome credit their relative success in co-parenting to open communication, difficult conversations, and putting Ashton first. They contrast their dynamic with Rome’s more challenging other co-parenting relationships.

Q. The Importance of Having Difficult Conversations ([56:37]-[61:07])

• Jess pushes Rome to acknowledge that unresolved issues with other mothers hindered healthy co-parenting.
• Rome shares his willingness to be present for his children no matter the friction with parents, especially after one co-parent’s cancer diagnosis.

R. Hope for Healing and Growth ([62:13]-[66:32])

• Jess: “This book should show you that healing is possible, because y’all weren’t always in the best.”
• Rome: “Give me my kid. That’s all I got. But if you’re using that against me, obviously it’s something you… that ain’t right.”

S. Plans for the Future ([66:08]-[66:32])

• Rome hints at a sequel to the book with a working title: “Let a father be a father.”

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3. Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Rome on transparency: “None of it really hurt me, because I own up to what I do. I ain't never been ashamed of anything… I always had a choice. I decided to make those choices.” ([04:42])
• Jess on grace and maturity: “I gave Rome a lot of grace… my mother always instilled that in me. Give a person grace… you don’t know what [they’ve] gone through.” ([18:41])
• Charlamagne on energy: “I never had the language to explain you and Jess’s energy, but I feel like I have it now… she’s literally trying to heal that mother wound.” ([30:03])
• Rome on co-parenting: “When you let a father be a father, you’re gonna see the finishing product of it… I shouldn’t have to fight my child mom to take care of my kid.” ([52:10])
• Jess on co-parenting success: “We were already past each other once we sat down and talked… we would still be best friends.” ([50:42])
• Rome on self-awareness: “Looking back, yeah, I fucked up… that wasn’t the way to go… all you’re doing is creating something that costs, and it’s going to cost you over time.” ([54:41])
• Jess’s message to women: “I encourage women to never do that… never show up to a baby shower or first birthday party with a whole other girl unless you with that girl and not your baby mama.” ([38:29])

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4. Important Timestamps

• [02:16] – Rome’s reaction to Jess’s book; initial discomfort
• [04:42] – Accountability and growth after mistakes
• [07:37] – Rome admits staying together was for their child
• [13:37] – Double standards in cheating, trust, communication
• [16:26] – “Let a flower be a father. Not when it’s convenient for you.”
• [23:00] – Impact of childhood trauma and mother’s death
• [33:06] – Comedy & pain: first birthday party drama
• [41:20] – Family and friends’ negative role
• [45:17] – Deprogramming child after weekend with the other parent
• [54:03] – Money, manhood, and mother wounds
• [61:07] – Hope for healing with other co-parents
• [66:08] – Plans for a book sequel

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5. Tone & Style

Throughout, the conversation is real, unfiltered, and at times raw—blending humor, reflection, candid admissions of fault, and deep empathy. Both Jess and Rome speak in their own words and with unmistakable authenticity, offering listeners not only entertainment but also wisdom forged from pain, growth, and persistence.

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6. Conclusion

This episode gives listeners rare, honest insight into co-parenting after hurt, how childhood trauma shapes adult relationships, and the power of honest, sometimes uncomfortable conversations. Jess and Rome lay bare their missteps and their growth, showing that—given openness, grace, and time—broken bonds can be rebuilt for the good of children and for personal healing.

The book ‘Til Death Do We Parent is available now.

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For anyone navigating co-parenting, this episode offers hope, humor, practical lessons, and a powerful reminder: “Let a father be a father—not just when it’s convenient for you.”

Transcript

[Jessica]

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[Rome]

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[Jessica]

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[Jessica]

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[Rome]

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[Podcast Host (e.g., Cheryl Strayed or Maya Shankar)]

Hi everyone. I'm Cheryl Strayed, author of Wild and Tiny Beautiful Things. I'm excited to share that I have a new podcast called Mind Over Mountain. In each episode, I interview athletes, adventurers and adrenaline seekers to discuss the inner LA landscapes that informed and inspired their extraordinary feats. So we too can better understand how to face our own seemingly insurmountable challenges. Listen to Mind Over Mountain every Thursday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Rome]

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[DJ Envy]

Morning, everybody.

[Jessica]

It's DJ Envy.

[DJ Envy]

Just hilarious. Charlemagne, the guy. We are the Breakfast Club. We got a special guest in the building.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And first of all, make sure the door is locked. And I'm glad that her phone is in here because she can't use her phone to get in the room. So make sure the door is locked correct. Jess. Hilarious. Can't get in. We got our guy, Rome.

[Rome]

Rome here.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Who is Jess? Baby's father.

[Rome]

That's right, Ashton's dad.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That's right, Ashton's dad. And you know Jess put out her new book this week, Tell Deaf Do We Parent. It's available everywhere. You buy books now and it talks about how they got to a healthy place of co parenting with each other.

[DJ Envy]

That's right.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

And I haven't even talked to Rome. I ain't reach out to Rome. I wanted to talk to Rome face to face. Rome, what did you think of the book? Word Tell Deaf to each other.

[DJ Envy]

What was your first feeling?

[Jessica]

First Honest.

[Rome]

Honest, Honest. First when you read the book, first chapter. I feel like some things wasn't explained the correct way.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

We're not supposed to let her in.

[DJ Envy]

Yeah, you wasn't supposed to let her in.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You're supposed to keep her out for a little bit.

[Jessica]

Okay.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Let Rome talk. Rome has the floor. Rome has the floor. You can sit down, Jess.

[DJ Envy]

You can sit down, Jess.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Unless you want to leave. You can also leap. Okay.

[Jessica]

Yes, I'm a leave.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

All right. Okay. We just asked the first question. All right.

[Rome]

It's too late. It's too late.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Okay, now.

[Rome]

Now, back.

[DJ Envy]

Back to what you said of the

[Charlamagne Tha God]

book, Till Death to Repent. You said first chapter.

[DJ Envy]

You were saying it was Cap.

[Rome]

Honestly, not even Cap. I just think after women read it, they gonna hate me. And why? Because, of course, you know, men can't go through that. But when women are going through, like, postpartum, those stages and stuff, stuff like that, if you read this, the first chapter, it's going to be like I was a dog. Like, I did everything during those times when I did it. So you weren't.

[DJ Envy]

You weren't a dog?

[Rome]

No. I feel like she fabricated it far as putting it too early. It was late. It was later than that. I didn't do any of that during postpartum. But it was a dope book. Interesting. Very transparent. The see that we've grown so much and to share other. To share with other people on, you know, that co parenting is not a bad thing. I think that that's. That's the biggest part and the goal that we always talked about, and that was for years, even when we started co parenting therapy back in, it was Covid. So I want to say, like, 20, 21, when it was shut down. But yeah, man, the book is.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah, but see, that's what I got from the book. That's why I say I don't think people will hate you if they read past the first chapter. You know what I mean? Because you do get to the growth and the evolution of both of y'. All.

[Rome]

Yes.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You know what I mean? Not just. Not just you. Both of y'. All.

[Rome]

Yeah. And. But you got some people who ain't gonna read through the book. Right, Right. They gonna pinpoint and take out parts, and they're gonna run with certain narratives.

[DJ Envy]

I see the captions and highlights the

[Rome]

same way they do clips on Instagram or Tick Tock, whatever the case may be. They hate you off a clip and didn't even let you elaborate or explain

[Charlamagne Tha God]

yourself, which after hurt your feelings the most. And don't lie, because I know you read it more than one time.

[Rome]

What chapter was it? None of it really hurt me because none of it really hurt me. Because I'm. I'm. I own up to what I do. I ain't never been ashamed of anything. I'm tell you why. Because I always had a choice. I decided to make those choices. But what was hard warming to me was that she's able to talk about it now. Cause a lot of times she wouldn't ever open up about it. And just to share that light on how much I've grown as a man and as a father, I just was, you know, a part. I was not even a part. I was really. Yeah, I was. I was just excited, man. I really was excited.

[DJ Envy]

You could tell she has a lot of love for you.

[Rome]

Regardless, you know, a lot of love is always there. I'm just excited because if anybody who really know me, truly and genuinely know me, that's my dog.

[DJ Envy]

How did you feel when you know. She recently. Excerpts came out of the book, and she talked about not necessarily wanting your first child, but wanted to keep you more than anything. So to make you happy, she was willing to do anything for you. How did that make you feel?

[Rome]

I felt in a moment. I don't know if it was no feeling. We was kids. Looking back, reading it, as a father of five now, I understand. And I say that because even when I go back to her and I be like, if you gonna leave me alone, don't go get another me. It's one of those things where, okay, well, if you having a child, make sure that, you know that this is gonna be a family. And I never wanted a lot of kids. I always wanted a family. But, you know, I was emotional. I would say dumb, not thinking, vulnerable in those moments, even as a kid. But I think. I don't know, I think it just shaped her to be the wife that she is now.

[DJ Envy]

Do you look back at it and say, I messed this family up? Cause she talks about she thought that y' all had a perfect family. Y' all were taking pictures and y' all were doing things as a family and a couple. And then all of a sudden, she got a comment that says, rome, oh, he here with you. But he play a house on this other house. And matter of fact, he got a baby coming.

[Rome]

Did you ever look back at that

[DJ Envy]

and be like, damn, I effed that up.

[Rome]

I look back sometimes and say, I wish I'd have did things different. I ain't never gonna say I wish I fucked it up. Because who knows? If I wouldn't have did what I did, then we still would have been together. Because it goes both ways. And a lot of things that I've done, it was out of reactions. You know, it's three sides of every story. Their side, your side, and the truth. Me, I just wasn't that heartless to just go out and do these things I didn't even have access to. So that's why we gonna dive dead. We gonna dive deeper into those things. But I wouldn't say I fucked up. I would say I just wish I'd have did things different just to give us a. Just to give us a chance. Because I never even gave us a chance. Gotcha.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That's a great question and just a great framing of it. Like, if there were no kid involved, right, if there was no Ashton, would y' all still choose each other, you think?

[Rome]

At that moment?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah.

[Rome]

No. Why? Because Ashton was the glue. Ashton was the one that kept it around. And me, I'm low tolerance. And Jessica speaks on that. She'll speak again on it. We spoke on that on the podcast. When women don't do. And it might sound controlling, or it might sound like I'm a narcissist, you know, at that moment, not now. Cause I'm a changed man, you know, at that moment, it may sound like I'm being controlling, but I felt like at the time, younger days, if women wasn't in my. If you weren't in compliance, I, I. It wasn't no benefit to me.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

So just. Just walk back in the room. I want. I want to expound on the question I just asked you. What was it about Jess that would make you not want to be with her? If there was no action? Because he said he wouldn't be with you if there was an actual.

[Rome]

At that moment, at that, like I said, I'm gonna repeat, at that moment, we was children. So it wasn't really. It wasn't really nothing to be with her own. Especially after all the things I did and I say that to say at that. At that time. Of course, you know, a lot of men live with women for conveniency and stuff like that. I didn't need any of that. I'm living at home with my stepmom, so if there's no child, we'd have went our separate ways. Because it was easy to go separate ways with no time. It's easy to go separate ways when you're not married. Marriage and children. Is the towel on? Okay, let's see. Because you don't really want to start over. Like, it's hard starting over. Not even hard. Just Too much timing. You got to relearn a person and then you don't even know if that person gonna be the person for you. So it takes time.

[DJ Envy]

Now you said it was reactional, the fact that, you know, you cheated. Was it reactionable because you didn't want to be in a family at the time, or you didn't want to be tied down? Or was her. This was, you know, what was reactional?

[Rome]

No, just did shit.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah. Okay, now let's get to it.

[Jessica]

Oh, Charlemagne.

[Rome]

Just did things. And there's some things I said I would never speak on. I'm taking that to the grave with me because.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah, that's why you believed Ashton might not be yours at one point.

[Rome]

No, I never believe that. Oh, and I seen him. He was mine through the sonogram. At the moment. At the moment. I never really even believed it. It was more so I was upset because of the heat of the moment, but.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Oh, you just said that to piss off. Yeah, okay. Okay.

[Rome]

Yeah, yeah, she said it to piss me. I'm emotional. Damn, Jess.

[Jessica]

Yeah, I know.

[Rome]

I mean, told him that it might not be his. But she. Yeah, and she. But she. And I read that four or five times again on the train today, that particular part. But then I fell asleep. But no, how did it feel when

[Charlamagne Tha God]

she said that to you?

[Rome]

Of course, you know, as a man, you hurt in the moment. Oh, and mind you, you Shane in my face. So I think it went different if she was in my face, shit like that. But I did not never thought Ashton was. Wasn't mine. I just think she of all people, at that moment, even now, know how to get under my skin. There's only two things that really bothered me. My children and my mom. It ain't really nothing else you can really say to me that would really move me.

[DJ Envy]

Why didn't you fight for the relationship after? You know, Jess was like, it's over. You know, you had another baby on the way. Why didn't you fight for.

[Rome]

Let's clear that up.

[DJ Envy]

Okay.

[Rome]

It was over before I had a baby on the way, Jessica.

[Jessica]

I know, Rome. I just was trying to, like, be with you and give my family like. Cause that's what I wanted, ultimately. I wanted that family. I wanted to grow up. I wanted Ash to grow up in a house with me and you together, you know? And yeah, it was over. I had mentally checked out. You was like moved. Like you had moved on and everything, but like, you were still selfish. Cause I couldn't be with nobody. You didn't want me But I couldn't be with nobody else.

[Rome]

No, we cleared it up. Cause in the book, it make it seem like I had a baby on you.

[Jessica]

Well, you were dealing with.

[Rome]

Ashton is three number two. I mean, Ashton is 14.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Okay.

[Rome]

Aaliyah is 11.

[Jessica]

Yeah.

[Rome]

Okay. When did we split?

[Jessica]

When he was like, about two or three.

[Rome]

No, one.

[Jessica]

We split once and. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I took you back. I got back with you.

[Rome]

Remember?

[Jessica]

When I met yo?

[Rome]

Correct.

[Jessica]

You know, I can't say his real name, but yeah, when I met Emmanuel, we was.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I can't say his real name.

[Jessica]

No.

[Rome]

But that's not his real name.

[Jessica]

Yeah, yeah. Cause I was about to say his real name.

[Rome]

But why did you fight for it?

[DJ Envy]

Why didn't you fight for that family back? If that's what you want, if that's what Ashton meant to you, why didn't you say. You know what? I'mma cut the BS out and I'm gonna fight for my kids.

[Jessica]

Colin.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Jess.

[Rome]

Music.

[Jessica]

He was rapping.

[Rome]

No.

[Jessica]

Oh. Cause of music.

[Rome]

I use music a lot. It's a therapy for me.

[DJ Envy]

It was influenced by it.

[Rome]

Yeah. And it's one person. Hov. No.

[Jessica]

No. You talking about Webby?

[Rome]

No.

[Jessica]

Oh, Boosie.

[Rome]

No. Who wrong? Yo Gotti.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yo Gotti.

[Jessica]

Oh, yeah, that's. Yeah.

[Rome]

But one thing he said.

[Jessica]

Yo Gotti.

[Rome]

One thing he said.

[Jessica]

And you can curse and say it.

[Rome]

One thing he said was a nigga can do a thousand one things once that girl, that one person, we can't take it. So at that moment, and then even at that time, like, you know, still, it's peer pressure, people around you. Oh. And then at that time, I really cared about what my friends thought. So it was basically. And then it was like a manhood. And, you know, like, my father ain't really say too much negative, but, you know, he said the things he said. But, you know, I think I was more so heartbroken because of, you know, certain things that she did do with Emmanuel. Not even just Iman. You know, you might as well. If I see you texting five or six men, you might as well done fucked all of them. Cause in my mind, you dead.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

How many yo's you had?

[Rome]

No, when I'm. No, no, no, no, no. I'm not making it seem like that. What I'm making it seem like is if you. Even if I see you texting or talking to over him, you might as well.

[Jessica]

In my mind, you already had sex with them.

[Rome]

Yeah, but that's a double standard because

[DJ Envy]

you was doing it.

[Jessica]

Even if.

[Rome]

But it's almost like I can do

[Charlamagne Tha God]

it, but you can't. Yeah.

[Jessica]

Even if you didn't have sex with him, like, have sex. Even if I'm just talking to somebody and he go on my phone and he said, oh, he looking over and I'm texting him because, you know, I was going pretty hard. You know what I mean? But he would look over and see. He already just assumed, like, oh, yeah, if you got balls enough to sit right here and text the nigga right in front of me, you sleeping with him. And it's like Rome overthinks. Like, he creates these scenarios in his mind, and he overthinks, and he thinks himself out of the relationship.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

He's not wrong for that.

[Rome]

Yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Even though we shouldn't make assumptions. He's not right.

[Rome]

But when I'm right, I'm right. When I'm wrong, I could have been right. But when I'm right, I was wrong, but I wasn't wrong.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Okay, okay, okay. I see what you know what I'm saying. No. Yeah.

[Rome]

I ain't gonna hold you. But no, she. No, you know, you. You did some things to me too.

[Jessica]

Yeah. I believe. Okay, let's. All right, that's fine.

[Rome]

Yeah.

[Jessica]

And I'll take accountability for that.

[Rome]

You did a lot of things in me. I done pulled up on Jessica a couple times.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Pulled up on her way yo in her neighborhood.

[Jessica]

Tell me.

[Rome]

I mean, and then that's one thing, too. I don't like when you ignore my phone calls.

[Jessica]

Control.

[Rome]

Don't ignore my phone calls. And then don't hang up on me when I'm trying to explain

[Jessica]

because you're not.

[Rome]

Let me get my point across. Cause then that means you don't care about how I feel. And that's one thing about this society. Nobody cares about how men actually feel. And then when men try to open up and I looked at. And it's on the same track that Michael Beasley and Shannon Sharp. I felt a lot of things Michael Beasley said when a man tried to open up. Y' all laugh at me until it's too late. I'm just glad he was able to get the help he needed to be able to tell his story. But it's a lot of other men who ashamed to do it. But this book. And that ties everything to this book. This book is a great book because his father's out there, and it's hopeless because you got a lot of types of dip beats. You got dip beats who? They don't do something the baby mother say. That did beat. You got dibbies who just actually don't give a. You got dibbies who said, oh, don't get the. Don't. Don't have that child. And then you still have the child. It's so many different ones. But for the men who actually want to be in a father's life and their kids life. Yeah. And they kid. I'm sorry. For the men who actually want to be in their kids life, I just don't understand why women don't want to allow that.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Let's say. Stay there for a second. Because I asked Rome, I said Rome, if you had a title for your book, what would be called. You had a very interesting title. Second one.

[Rome]

I got two. So I'm the second one. Let a flower be a father. Not when it's convenient for you.

[Jessica]

That's that.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Not when it's convenient for you is what got me. Yeah. Do you feel like she only wanted you to be a father when it was convenient for her?

[Rome]

No.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Okay.

[Rome]

Not with. No, not with her.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I got a lot.

[Rome]

Of course, you know, I got a line. Yeah. But no, with me and Jessica, it was never about. This was before this to be. That's why it's most genuine. Because she didn't keep a child because of her status or some. Some money or whatever the case may be. We just was honestly thought we was in love. And then when I grew up, I didn't grow up on Spin your hot blocks and that type of music. I grew up on Bow wow and Lil Romeo and Sammy. So like it was. It was love music. And you just. I always just wanted those fairy tales. Like my favorite show growing up was sweet life and Zack and Cody because of the family dynamic. So it's like for a young man to want that and then you see, my life didn't get that. That's one of the things I'd be like, damn. I don't say I up. But I'd be like, well, why? Why? I couldn't get what you want. Those cars. And I used to always A lot of my friends, I used to be jealous of my friends growing up, they had a mom and dad and I didn't. And I told them, bro, like, I don't like you. Love you, but I don't like you.

[Jessica]

Your friend or your dad.

[Rome]

My friends.

[Jessica]

Your friends.

[Rome]

Because they had what I wanted. And then I just used to see how they just never appreciated they mom

[DJ Envy]

was the co parenting way that y' all co parent now was that always there or they had to get there like, at first was just not letting you see your son or you didn't

[Rome]

want to see your son, because it's never been the case.

[DJ Envy]

How did it originally start?

[Rome]

So it was always co parenting. It's just. I was co parenting with her mother. With my mother, yeah, With Mama Robin.

[DJ Envy]

Cause Jess didn't want to see you.

[Rome]

Cause Jess was.

[Jessica]

Jess, I didn't want to see you. Why didn't I.

[Rome]

She had to see me, though, because she was living at the daycare, so she was going to see me. But it's never been a point where I couldn't see my son, or he's keeping away from me because she. She has that family dynamic. Who. This ain't that.

[DJ Envy]

And why Jess?

[Rome]

Why didn't you.

[DJ Envy]

Because most people would have been like, he did me dirty. He cheated on me. He did all these things. I'm gonna use my son to hurt him. A lot of people do that. We see that a lot in relationships. Why wasn't your mind framed that as hurt as you are?

[Jessica]

I just. Yeah, I just couldn't do it. I gave Rome a lot of grace because, you know, I was doing my ish, too. But, you know, it's not about who. Well, actually, it was. It was about who started it, but whatever. But once we started going back and forth, trying to hurt each other and trying to make each other feel the pain that each one of us felt, I got tired of that. And once I wanted to sit down with Rome and just put everything on the table like, yo, all right, let's admit everything. Things that I did that I was lying to him about, he admitted things to me. Well, he explained things to me because that's the thing. Rome never really told me. All he did, I would find out, and I'm going, I'm coming to him like, yo, this is what happened. Ain't no AI AI was not. It wasn't even at our fingertips back then. So, no. But I was able to give him a lot of grace. And then also, like, his trauma, he went through a lot when he was younger, and I realized I'm like, yo, I'm a lot more mature to see that. And my mother always instilled that in me. Give a person grace. Everybody comes from different walks of life. You don't know what he's gone through. And it's hard to operate in this world without a mother, you know, and then with an absent father, you know, father who you see, but he. Not really. There is no real bond. So I felt the need to, like, be more of a friend and a confidant, you know, because I think I was like the only one that you can open up to about a lot of things that happened in your childhood. A lot of things that, you know, you didn't, that you, that you didn't get as a kid after your mom's passing. So I think that's what it was.

[DJ Envy]

Did she use that against you? Because you talk about being vulnerable. Did she ever use that?

[Rome]

So that's what I was going to say next. But the big umbrella of with everything she's saying, her mother, Ms. Robinson.

[Jessica]

Okay.

[Rome]

Because she wouldn't allow it. You have women, you have men, you have human beings itself who when shit don't go their way, they got enablers around them telling them that. That's right, that's right. When her mother. I loved her mother so much. It reminds me her mother used to go through hell and hot water because I was always rebellious. And then as I got a certain age, I'm already defensive because of what my dad did. So you can't tell me, but I had to take myself step back. She's not trying to hurt you. Wrong. And yeah, she, she just, you wrong, wrong. You wrong. Yeah. So it wasn't. No. Oh, that's my daughter. I'm gonna take her side.

[Jessica]

Right.

[Rome]

Because it was, it was. And honestly, like, I think because the co parenting itself, it got, it was, it wasn't bad, but it got great after a while. It didn't just happen overnight.

[Jessica]

Right.

[Rome]

It really started happening when I took my feelings out of it, like I stated in the past, like when, that, when that, that narrative, oh, I don't want this around my kid. I don't want this. I don't want that. I allowed it to happen, though, because when I decided to hurt that woman or not want to be with that woman, that opens up the door so she can have whoever the fuck she want to have around that child.

[Jessica]

Yeah.

[Rome]

So the logical part that I went with was, okay, just long as they ain't trying to hurt my kid, I'm okay. And I, I, I, I respect my child. Mom enough, and I trust them enough and even now, all of them to not allow that to happen.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I want, I want to ask you something. Wrong. Cause you said what you wanted growing up was a two parent household, right. And a lot of people would say, how can somebody with that mindset end up with five baby mothers? Because it's impossible to give those kids what you wanted growing up. So why would you create the same type of environment?

[Rome]

So Let me, let me elaborate and piggyback. So I never really. That two part household now is, is new. I never really cared for a two part household. I just wanted my mother. So mind you, I was fine with going with my dad on the weekends, going back to my mother. Until that last weekend, I didn't get to go back to my mom. So the two parent household dynamic come from, like I said, shows and stuff like that and reality and the stigma that society put on you. Always supposed to be like this when two point household produced some of the most upest people in the world.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

But you are not a fucked up person.

[Rome]

No.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You're a brother with high emotional intelligence. So clearly I know you wanted to be better than your pop.

[Rome]

Correct. And like I said, I made. I mean, I made, I made decisions. A lot of decisions I made was out of vulnerability. A lot of decisions I made was out of hurt, you know, And I'm not ashamed to say that people like, oh, oh, that's me.

[Jessica]

Can I ask you, and you just tell me if you agree that I feel like you are looking for maybe your mom and these women. And that's why, you know, because you had lost her at a very young age. And that nurturing and that, you know, all that nurturing and affection stopped at a very early age. And you went from that household, that's all you knew, love and positivity and just, you know, all of that to a very different type of household. You know, it wasn't much affection, it wasn't nurturing. And I feel like that actually shaped how you

[Rome]

look at women in relationships.

[Jessica]

Yeah. Like it affected your love life in a way. Do you agree with that?

[Rome]

We're gonna be very transparent. Yeah. I never looked in my. I never looked for women and I never looked for my mother in women. I did look for the love and affection. Right. Why I never looked in my. I never looked for my mother and women because I'm put on tape. My mother wasn't a saint. My mother did shit like, you know, like.

[Jessica]

But who she was to you, who

[Rome]

she was to me was. She was great. But it was like once she left, it was just that, that affection, that love, that holding a person. Because I used to hold my mother every night. She put me out every night, but I used to hold her. It really didn't affect me until I got older and started dealing with women. Because while I'm going through school, I'm. I'm always busy. Maybe that's why it didn't affect me. I'm grades Baseball, basketball. I really had no downtime to really think about. I know my mom and at the, like, probably like 13, I'm, you know, I'm washing cars. That's, you know, my mother loved cars, so that's where I get that from. So it's like, I don't think that it. I never really say, oh, I want my mother and this woman, because my mother ain't know how to cook. My mother cleaned up.

[DJ Envy]

But you know you have five baby moms, right? And of course, Jess had relationships before she recently got married. How did you co parent in that situation?

[Rome]

Right?

[DJ Envy]

Because Ashton to be at his house, he has women there, you know, or, you know, just might have a guy like, how did y'.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

All. It's crazy how you just cut that man off talking about his mom.

[Rome]

No.

[DJ Envy]

Cause I'm asking.

[Rome]

No, it's gonna come back now. Okay, So I can see where you going at. Go ahead.

[DJ Envy]

So I'm asking, so how did you deal with that? Because that's what you seen with your life.

[Rome]

Mm. So how did I see with my son there with her and her man?

[Jessica]

Like, how do we co parent? Like, how did you. You know, like.

[Rome]

So we speaking on. We speaking on the husband now? No, not.

[DJ Envy]

No, before the husband.

[Rome]

Before the husband.

[DJ Envy]

That's totally different.

[Jessica]

My relationships and Ash would be home with me, but then he come over to the house. Yeah, like, how was the co parenting relationship between you and I when that was going on schedule? You had girlfriends and I ain't gonna hold you.

[Rome]

I took my feelings out of it. A couple men that. One, two. One and a half.

[Jessica]

You literally only liked one and a half.

[Rome]

I ain't like the other one, but.

[Jessica]

And you didn't like him first?

[Rome]

No, I didn't, but. And we going, yeah, yeah, one and a half.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Because. Why the half? Because the half.

[Rome]

I ain't really care for him, but he loved her, so he loved my son. So like I said, it's times where Rome just take him to the house when they was. Them two was, you know, in one household and I would drop them off, no problems or none of that. So that was it. That was the only transaction for us that really wasn't as high about whatever. None. I ain't really careful because of what he was saying to the other women who was coming to me, if that makes sense.

[DJ Envy]

I'm confused. We gotta break it down a little bit.

[Rome]

Okay. So he wasn't a saint in this. That. In that relationship neither.

[DJ Envy]

Okay.

[Rome]

And we didn't came across a couple of the same women. I ain't disclosing anything. But did you ever tell Jess that? Like you're doing it?

[Jessica]

No, he didn't.

[Rome]

That's not my business. She figured that shit out on her own.

[Jessica]

Now it's not your business.

[DJ Envy]

It's not what your son did.

[Rome]

Yeah, that's my son, but they wasn't in the household. He was doing what he did on his free time. Wow. When he was doing. How I know that? Because my son was with me majority of the time when he's doing it on his free time.

[Jessica]

Well, a cheater would support a cheater anyway.

[Rome]

I'm not supporting a cheater. You chose him, and that's on you.

[Jessica]

I didn't know he was cheating.

[Rome]

Well, I didn't either, but.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Nova.

[Rome]

I didn't either, but it was no problem. That's after the.

[Jessica]

I'm sorry real quick. Yeah, you said it was no problem. So you answered this question. But he was saying something earlier when I came in. Envy was asking you, did I ever use, like, anything against you? Like, as far as your mom passing?

[Rome]

No. So I think it's more comfortable, but

[Jessica]

I have not done that.

[Rome]

It was more comfortable with talking to her about it because she never used it against me. Got you. But of course, you know, I deal with that every day. Like, I think the worst that my child mom has said to me was, kill yourself and lay next to your mother. Damn. Wow.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That's.

[Rome]

That's.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That's beyond porn.

[Rome]

But then call me and ask me for a hot shot the next day. And I did it.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Damn. Have you ever. Have you ever gone to, like, a therapist or somebody to talk about, like, the clear mother wound that you have? You know, the mother.

[Rome]

Yeah, I talked to the. I actually was consistent until I felt like I ain't. I'll never need it no more. But it was consistent. The therapist that you. You gave to me a couple years ago.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Okay.

[Rome]

I was using him and it just was over the phone. I don't really need the face to face. It just be just listening. You listen to me and then you give me everything you can to just help me. Like, so did that therapist. Yeah. So that's why I always even. It'd be. Sometimes I might text you, like, peace and blessings, King. Because I got that from you, the peace and blessings part. But yeah, I did. And why do you feel like you

[Jessica]

can't go in person?

[Rome]

I ain't. I ain't saying I can't. I just. I ain't saying I can't. I just saying that it's. It probably is, but it's like, I don't feel like I would need to. To go in person. Like, even now, we're in a world now where everything is virtual, and a lot of things are virtual and stuff like that, so.

[Jessica]

But sometimes that's not the best, because there's that human connection. You can't get that through a screen all the time. You know what I mean? The atmosphere is different in an actual therapist's office now, if you need to. If you want to roll on the go all the time, I do understand that. But I think that you would truly benefit from, in person, that whole atmosphere. Like, a different atmosphere, a different environment where you can feel safe enough to open up about things, because it's things that you probably haven't even confronted. You know, you never know. Like, the trauma. A lot it could be other traumas that stemmed from, you know, before Keisha, before your mom passed. You know, it could be things that you didn't deal with or, you know, you don't know about until it's activated. So the trauma is, like, activating. You gotta face it. You know what I mean?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I never had the language to explain you and Jess's energy, but I feel like I have it now. Like, when I see Jess with you, she's literally trying to heal that mother wound. Not by trying to be your mother in any way, but I, I. The way she talks to you, the. The concern she has for you, I'm sure that the deep conversations y' all have. I constantly see her trying to put Neosporin, and, you know, all of the things that help treat that mother wound that exists in you. And it makes sense when you're telling me that you have had other baby mothers who poured salt in there, they

[DJ Envy]

use it against you.

[Rome]

Yeah, she just keep me mellow. If y' all know this, my. I'm. I'm. I'm more relaxed. I'm always on an uppity because I'm always in defense mode.

[Jessica]

Yeah.

[Rome]

It's like I'm always trying to prove myself. And that's why a lot of times you. You stress yourself out.

[DJ Envy]

But how. How did it affect you when she got married?

[Rome]

Right.

[DJ Envy]

Because they said it was boundaries. And the reason I ask is if I'm marrying somebody, I know y' all might have a relationship, and I know y' all might be tight, but you kinda gotta find your own person to lean on. Cause that's mine. You know what I mean? That's my wife now. You know what I mean? But y' all were so tight for so long. How did those new boundaries affect co parenting and y' all relationship?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah. Cause somebody had to build a wall.

[Rome]

It ain't affect nothing.

[Jessica]

Shut the up.

[Rome]

Hold on, hold on. Guess what? Guess what? It wasn't a wall built. I'm a man. So when she leaped and mind you, I knew step by step. But. And it wasn't even overwhelmed. I want you to meet Chris. It just a genuine. And it wasn't a wall. I'm a man. I always had respect. How did I deal with not being around her more or talking to her? It's almost like you're losing your best friend. But I never thought about that. Because you're selfish if you don't want your best friend or your person that you love to be happy. So if this is what makes her happy, okay. I got one child mom that's happy one found the Russell Wilson. Thank you.

[Jessica]

Is what you used to say.

[Rome]

Don't go. Give me your future.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I'm like, yo, yeah, you wanted somebody. You wanted her to get somebody better.

[Rome]

I want her to get a Russell Wilson.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Let me ask you. That's a good. That's a good segue into this. What's one thing just. I don't want to say exposed but said about you in the book that made you say damn. I didn't realize I was that toxic.

[Jessica]

Definitely think about it.

[Rome]

The baby, the. My son first birthday. That's one a lot of them. When she stated that sound like I did it. I don't remember that part though. But she said I brought the girl in the birthday party. Her friends made the girl leave or whatever the case may be.

[DJ Envy]

You brought your new chick to your son.

[Jessica]

Cute little chick.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Don't get up. The man tell his story.

[Rome]

I'm just asking.

[DJ Envy]

Cause I want to be clear.

[Rome]

I'mma explain all that. Okay, listen. I'm explaining all that.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

She was fine.

[Jessica]

Yeah, she was.

[DJ Envy]

Yell at me.

[Rome]

But they gonna give you right?

[Jessica]

She was cute, yo.

[Rome]

Like at. At that time, toxic wasn't thrown around. So I ain't looking at it as toxic. Then it's rah. We just got my way. So that son shit. If you saying how that made me feel, I said, all right,

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I'm bring this bad teeth.

[Rome]

And my craz part is I didn't even tell a DJ to play that song. I think my brother or somebody did.

[Jessica]

What song was played? It was. I think it was Yo Gotti.

[Rome]

Yeah, but I'm telling you.

[Jessica]

Yes, you did.

[Rome]

Oh, oh, yeah. No, I don't think I did that thing with my brother. I ain't.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Not at the time.

[Rome]

Cuz I came late on purpose. Cuz I wanted to make a grand entrance.

[Jessica]

Yes.

[Rome]

So hold up at this time. Action one. I'm only 20, so just imagine I've been. So the song was a homie was wrong with you? That bitch don't belong to me. Don't belong to you?

[Jessica]

Yes. CM5 or CM4, one of them cocaine music projects.

[DJ Envy]

Damn.

[Rome]

CM3 or CM4. She threw my out the window. I meant. I think I told y' all that before she threw that CD out the window.

[Jessica]

But you walk in a party late, we were supposed to show up together

[DJ Envy]

wearing all white, looking bad.

[Rome]

Yeah, she. Yeah, she forgot to leave out the book that she inserted herself in me and my son pictures.

[Jessica]

What are you talking about?

[Rome]

When we took baby pictures, me and

[Jessica]

him, I inserted myself.

[Rome]

Yeah. You weren't supposed to be with us.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Damn.

[Rome]

Wow. That's how I knew that it wasn't. It was over. Because when I scheduled for them pictures. Yeah. Me and her wasn't together.

[Jessica]

Well, I was trying to force the relationship. Wrong. I really, really wanted to give my son. Give our son that family dynamic. Like I tell the truth about it. I take accountability. Like I was really trying to force.

[Rome]

Oh, you don't wanna really hurt me.

[DJ Envy]

I wanna know what happened to me.

[Rome]

You don't wanna really hurt me because.

[Jessica]

Because he don't want to admit. Like he talking about he don't remember. And it didn't happen like that. Shorty came. Listen. And this was the time when love and hip hop was hot. He thought he was Stevie J. He thought he had walked in with Jocelyn Hernandez and Shorty.

[Rome]

I never will walk in with a woman who's illiterate.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Damn.

[Rome]

Psych. No, my God.

[Jessica]

Because that is my friend.

[Rome]

Do not play around like that. Let me take that back.

[Jessica]

That's my girl.

[Rome]

Let me take that back. That's not what I meant to say.

[DJ Envy]

She'll fight you, but go ahead.

[Rome]

Go ahead.

[Jessica]

Oh my God. So yeah, he walks in.

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[Rome]

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[DJ Envy]

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[Jessica]

You can have opinions, you can have like a strong stance, and then there's your body having its own program.

[Podcast Host (e.g., Cheryl Strayed or Maya Shankar)]

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[Jessica]

I wish that I hadn't resisted for

[Podcast Host (e.g., Cheryl Strayed or Maya Shankar)]

so long the need to change.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

We have to be willing to live

[DJ Envy]

with a kind of uncertainty that none of us likes.

[Podcast Host (e.g., Cheryl Strayed or Maya Shankar)]

Listen to a Slight change of plans on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jessica]

The story I've told myself about love or relationships can then shape my behavior and that can lead me to sabotage the poss of connection.

[Podcast Host (e.g., Cheryl Strayed or Maya Shankar)]

This mental health awareness month. Tune into the podcast Deeply well with Debbie Brown and explore the journey of healing, self discovery and returning to yourself. We explore higher consciousness, emotional well being, and the practices that help you find clarity, peace and self mastery in a world that can feel overwhelming. The world is becoming lonelier. We're not becoming more social and connected, we're becoming more individualized, but we actually need people in connection. If you've been searching for a soft place to land while doing the work to become whole, this podcast is for you. To hear more. Listen to Deeply well with Debbie Brown from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jessica]

Girl, you can obviously see she don't really. She know where she at, but she didn't really like understand until she got

[Rome]

in there like, oh wow, she ain't even speak English.

[Jessica]

This is his kid, whatever. This is. This, this is his kid's first birthday party. And everybody's looking at me like I'm not supposed to be here. He told her that I was gonna, that we were broken up and I was gonna have my boyfriend there. You was just my boyfriend, stupidy. Why would you tell her that? And he come in there, he got his shades on, he dressed just like our son or whatever. He walks off, leave her right there in the middle of the party. So now me and my friends, well, my friends. Cause I'm, you know, I'm not about to Walk up to him and fight her. Like, my friends are like, yo, let's get this bitch out of here. You know? Instantly, my father grabbed me, like, come on, come on, let me talk to you. Let me talk to you. And he had told my father, Yo, Mr. Kevin. She told me that Ashton wasn't mine. And so my father understood, like, wow, okay, you don't do this, but damn, I do get it. I don't know why she would tell you that. So that was his reaction to me saying that, but it was like, yo, you can't look at this little boy and say that he's not yours. Obviously, I was trying to press the button. I shouldn't have said it. I apologize for it. And I encourage women to never do that. You know what I mean? But I encourage men to never show up to a baby shower or first birthday party with a whole nother girl. Unless you with that girl and you not with your baby mama.

[Rome]

How can you control.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I'm trying to hurt you. Cause you hurt.

[Rome]

How can you control how somebody react or what you did to them?

[Jessica]

You are so right.

[DJ Envy]

Have got that girl's ass.

[Jessica]

She was ass.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

She ain't even speak English.

[Jessica]

She was bad, too. You could tell she didn't even know what was going on.

[DJ Envy]

You paid for her to come or that was your girl?

[Rome]

Man, I ain't paying for that.

[Jessica]

Wasn't his girl. He ain't say her after that. Why?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

She didn't speak English, though. So both of y' all got a thing for Latino.

[Rome]

Oh, my God.

[Jessica]

I don't know where. I don't know where he got it from. Whatever. But, like, that was a big statement. That was a big statement on his end, you know, and it. It rocks the feathers of the guest in the park.

[Rome]

Always been troll, right? Because. Yeah, I always been a troll because it was going to hurt her more if I did it publicly like that. Opposed to her telling me what my son silently. Because you told me solidly. But it hurt me big. So you. Okay, all right. I set that up, too. I said it. I said it. A real nice home run. But looking back, I wish I wouldn't have did it because I didn't. I never meant to humiliate her. But this is the thing that I tell people all the time. It's so easy to co parent when you keep your family, your friends out of. I've never had that problem on my end. My people. We're not saying I control them. My people in compliance. You overstep that boundary, you cut off. I Ain't married, but that's how I carry things. Because we said last time when I was here, you can say what you want about this person. I'm still gonna be with them. Sometimes that messes up relationships because you can still love this person and be with this person, but yet you don't want to be around this person. Family, because you know that they don't like you. I can't sit and fake. I love you. But if I don't want to be around your family, I'm not going. So that means no functions. I don't want them at none of our functions. So where does that leave us? You gonna have to make a decision. But where you got to choose and don't choose me.

[Jessica]

But where is the compromise, though? Because if you love that person, then you would.

[Rome]

You love that person. The compromising is. I'm compromising for you. But that family don't want. That family ain't compromising. They not compromising for the person that they love.

[Jessica]

But it's not for them.

[Rome]

It's not. But guess what?

[Jessica]

To love the person, the ultimate goal is that you will go to this wedding or you will go to this cookout, you know?

[Rome]

No, I feel like that's fake. And you there, that's fake. You can't relate because we never had that. We've never been in that situation either.

[Jessica]

No, we haven't.

[Rome]

We haven't.

[Jessica]

But I've been in situations like that.

[Rome]

But so you can't relate to me because me and you haven't been in that relationship, that type of environment because it was always more of a family narrative. So even when we was beefing in those times, like, we still was a family, like, I didn't really just push you to the curb because we still was a family.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I. I think a lot of this is gonna get conflated when people are watching it, only because a lot of this ain't you and Jess.

[Jessica]

Yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

It's you and your other correct baby mothers. Correct.

[DJ Envy]

Correct.

[Rome]

And it's, it's. It's the, the. The co parenting part about that is it's times I don't even want to talk to them. I should tell her to go talk to them, right?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

The other baby mamas. What? Wow.

[Rome]

Right, Man. Jessica helped me get a child support. I mean, I went back on, but she helped me get off child support. I tell her what I tell her I say, I say, you, I don't want to talk to you. And walked off. Yeah, here she go. No wrong, no wrong. No wrong. I'M like, I don't want to talk to her, she don't want to talk. It's okay, let it go. But you know, it was, you know, it's a beneficial right? And I think, man, I ain't hold you. If more men had child mom like this one, I think the world would be better because when you're not together, that's the, that's the biggest problem. When you're not together, everybody want to be just controlling or bitter. Wow. If you really love that child, you would. The best interest, the best interest is not just for the father to just pay for shit. The best interest is for the father to be around the child, allow that man to love his kid, allow that man to take care of his kid. One of the biggest things I don't like today is people calling dads weekend dads. Jessica mother helped me understand that. Okay, if the child lived with his mom Monday through Friday and you working Monday, Friday, and you get him Saturday and Sunday, which my mom did that with me and my dad, that's your time.

[Jessica]

Yeah.

[Rome]

You're a dad. Like this weekend that is doing a weekday. Okay, you want then, then here's the contradiction here. Weekend dad. But yet you want full custody or you want the full time or you want the benefits of being a full time mom? Okay, so if you want the benefits of being a full time mom, well, take on the benefits of being a full time mom. It just makes no sense to me. Like how, oh, I never get my kid up. But yet you complain about the dad getting a child Friday through Sunday or Monday, you pick, you picking the child, you picking the child up from school or daycare Friday. And if you want to be technically honest, the dad spend more time with the child on Saturday and Sunday because the child's are in school during the week or daycare. And by the time you get off work and get them from school daycare, what you do, you get them ready for the next day. Where the dads on a Friday night, we can have fun. They can be on the phone all night, be on the iPad, go to sleep whenever. Saturday we go to the mall, we go shop, we go wherever you want. Sunday we probably relax or not. Or we do, we do. Then Monday is back to business. So it's like I just don't, I don't get all of that, man. It's just so much man. I feel like the dad is just fathers. We go through hell and high water.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Jess, what did you mean when you said, and I saw you say this on Tamara. Then of course, I read it in the book. When you talk about having to deprogram and reprogram Ashton after spending weekends with Rome.

[Jessica]

Yeah. So when he goes to Rome house. Because we have.

[Rome]

Right there.

[Jessica]

We have. Yeah, we have two different co parenting vibes. Right? Two different co parenting styles. I am the Rome is the lenient parent. I am the. I'm strict. I have rules. I have structure. I'm not saying there's no structure, but there is definitely a lot more rules and discipline in my house during the week.

[Rome]

There's no rules on the weekend. I'm sorry. During the weekend.

[Jessica]

Yeah. So, you know, he kind of lets, you know, Ash just be and just do whatever he wants. He let him stay up all night, you know, just talk on the phone all night. He's on the Internet all day. I don't really like that. So when he comes back home with me, he's on the phone. He's nonchalant. I'm asking him to do something, I gotta tell him more than once. And I'm like, okay, you were just there for three days. You gotta get it together. Because the things that you do at dad's house, you can't do here. You know what I mean? Like when. When you get up and get out got. When you get up and get out of your bed and make it up, you got your own bathroom, got your own balcony. You got a big space in this house. You need to clean it up. You know what I mean? Like, I just make him do certain things. And that's the deprogramming, reprogram, having to remind him where he at and which house he in.

[Rome]

I just think that's just mom and dad, right?

[Jessica]

And it's good. It's a healthy balance.

[Rome]

A child is going to do a child. A child is going to do what they do with their mom and they're going to do what they do with their dad. But fathers, not. Not you, Jessica. So I'm gonna speak in general when I'm saying this, but as fathers, we always. When you go with your mom, you need to do this. Respect your mother. I tell my son Christian had to take that trash out. You are to. And mind you, and I don't even have to text her when it comes to him. Me and him did deprogram, debrief about what Ash and Eve was the best things for him. If we need mom, then she come in. Other than that, she stay our ass out of our business and that's that. But like, it's never bright hoes man, the weekend's just fun, man. Like, I understand as a child, man, you going to school. My son got a. My son got a 4.2 that's hard to maintain in the life he living. 4.2. Like, my son has never made honor roll. It's principal's. Honorable Principal's list.

[Jessica]

Yeah, the principal's list. Yeah.

[Rome]

And get it honest. You know, his dad is, you know, the man that is. I graduated salutatorian eighth grade at a 99 average. Top 10% at Denver High School at ranking number seven. And I graduated with 3.5 from college. It's talk that talk, talk that talk. It's stitching stone that my son gets his brains. Not saying his mother not smart.

[Jessica]

Right. Because I graduated with a 3.9 from a preparatory school in Dallas Town, Pennsylvania.

[Rome]

Play with me.

[DJ Envy]

Don't talk that talk.

[Jessica]

You know what I'm saying?

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Don't play with me.

[Rome]

I ranked number seven, top 10%. Only people that beat me was all nerds.

[DJ Envy]

What was the most difficult thing when it came to ash? Like, what was the one thing that your guys kept bumping heads or y' all couldn't agree on when it came to co parenting?

[Jessica]

I wanna go first. When he was younger, you wouldn't send back the clothes that I bought when I was sitting here with you. And you would go on Instagram, you would post it like, yeah, I got my son first.

[Rome]

I never took your clothes.

[Jessica]

I bought it. I.

[Rome]

What do you mean I never took your clothes? I always had his own wardrobe with me.

[Jessica]

Wrong. That was when he got a little older. No, that's what we made with bumpheads about. I'm like, yo, send back.

[Rome]

Are you talking about three?

[Jessica]

That. Yes. Send back the bag. I said earlier, send back the bag that I sent.

[Rome]

I'll be rushing now.

[Jessica]

I'll be rushing. He kept the clothes.

[Rome]

I washed them, fold them or put them in the cleanest.

[Jessica]

Okay, Kehlani, but I'm saying it's still my stuff that you guys.

[Rome]

It's not your stuff. It's not your stuff. It's his stuff. And you didn't send a bag every week because if I kept something that you sent, you ain't need to send it the following week.

[Jessica]

And then another time.

[Rome]

How many times? Excuse me? How many times? Every pair of tenants. I bought them. I bought them two pair. One for you, one for me.

[Jessica]

Okay?

[Rome]

I mean, how many Gucci belts you don't lost?

[Jessica]

Well, why are you buying a kid?

[Rome]

How many? How many?

[Jessica]

Like, designer stuff that young and they Grow out of it.

[Rome]

Okay, I would. That's just been me.

[Jessica]

Okay.

[Rome]

I'm sorry. I. That was my mother logic. I felt like that logic was a great life. Okay. Yep.

[Jessica]

That's how you grew up. Yep.

[Rome]

He would always.

[Jessica]

He was in design at a very young age. That's not mine.

[Rome]

It didn't say, oh, $500.

[Jessica]

Damn fast for you to be sitting on. And she was like, oh, well, yeah, it didn't matter. And I was hating a little bit. But so what? Like, no, like, how you mad he

[Charlamagne Tha God]

got your kid designing?

[Jessica]

I mean, because I was out here in TJ Maxx, but that's you. You.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

You was removing different. Did either one of you have a reflection that made you see a situation differently now that y' all older? Like when you go first?

[Jessica]

Well, I feel like. I feel like I've been seeing things different for a while. Since Ash was like five, you know what I mean? I feel like once we got past our feelings, I always saw you in a different light. Like, I always was like, okay, this will be. This is gonna be my friend. I feel like nobody else got this young man any help. Nobody ever, you know, tried to guide him, you know, properly. Even when you came into, like your big settlement, you was getting money, you was out here, you feel me? I felt like nobody was trying to help you in any way.

[Rome]

I wanna speak on that too. I'm gonna let you finish, but I wanna speak on that because that's a big part in the womanizing and stuff like that too. Oh, it finished.

[Jessica]

You know, so, yeah, that's how I felt. I've always was able to give grace and see. And see the bigger picture. Like, yeah, this is my friend. And I honestly feel. Going back to the question that Charlamagne asked you when I first walked in, if we didn't have Ashton, I know we would not be together. Cause that wasn't our story. But we would be friends, you know, we would be best friends still, you know, so. I do feel that way. But yeah, I've always been reflecting. What. What were you gonna say?

[Rome]

I agree on that. I do. Because your mother hold all my stuff.

[Jessica]

It always goes back to my mom. What's the good that I've done?

[Rome]

Yeah, I'm just saying your mother plays a big part. I just wish more women had mothers like you.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

What Rome is saying is true because it's always. It can always be a mother putting a negative battery in a woman's bag.

[Jessica]

Absolutely.

[Rome]

Or. Or she just ain't here for the child. You act just like your mother.

[Jessica]

Yeah.

[DJ Envy]

But Jesse seemed like she feel like you. You give a lot of profits or kudos to her mom, but none because she's great.

[Rome]

No, I give kudos to both. But as children, we speaking. We ain't speaking right now. We speaking on then. We was kids. I didn't have that.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah.

[Rome]

I didn't have nobody to show me or teach me how to be a father. It ain't no rulebook. I gotta figure that out my own. You. You know how I feel to go to college and you got your son in your left hand and you gotta do work. No.

[DJ Envy]

I don't know what I feel like.

[Rome]

Yeah, that's why I bought Ashton iPad at that young age. And beats don't nobody know the hard work that I put in. And then for the other children, I do the same. So like I said, when you let a father be a father, you gonna see you. You gonna see the finishing product of it. Like, I shouldn't have to fight my child mom to take care of my kid. I helped you make them right or her right.

[Jessica]

Yeah.

[Rome]

Why is it you. Oh, you shut the fuck up. When? Oh, here, here, here, here, here, here, here. No. Cause you know, like, I know I just had my boys at the market the other day. We was having moving night. We was on the cartoon. I took. You know, I'm a big kid, especially when I'm bringing babies around me, man. My NX kid come out, I'm on a cart, I roll from the top with a mark of that all the way down on the cart with Bryson and Prosper boys. Had the best time of your life. It's little things like that, yo. Money can't buy that.

[Jessica]

Yeah.

[Rome]

So it'd be like, damn, you do damn if you don't.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

He's talking about his other baby mothers, right?

[Jessica]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Rome]

I'm talking about fathers, period.

[Jessica]

Yeah, you're talking about babies.

[Rome]

So I don't call Jessica my baby mama. That's my sister. So, you know, we, we. You know, we. We clear on that. So feel about that like the world know when I'm talking. I ain't talking about her. She's excluded. She's actually. Yeah, she's excluded.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

So I can start saying, just got a baby from her brother.

[Rome]

Yeah.

[Jessica]

No, please.

[Advertisement Voice]

What?

[Jessica]

Damn.

[Rome]

Yeah. Please don't say no. No.

[DJ Envy]

He was about to say something about the settlement. He was like, yo, you'll get back.

[Rome]

Yeah. So the settlement. Honestly, man. The settlement. The settlement, really?

[Jessica]

Nobody taught you to invest or any of that?

[Rome]

Investing? I'm a Hurt young man. And I already got aura. I already got a little style. Nice teeth. I ain't buy these teeth. So, you know, whatever the case may be, when that money came, oh, I can get women to do whatever the fuck I want them to do.

[Jessica]

But why was that the goal?

[Rome]

That was the goal. Cause it made me feel better. It blocked all the pain and hurt that I had.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Mother wound.

[Rome]

The mother wound. It blocked all that out. Yeah. So you know, at that time we talked about that. I didn't went broken. Had to really sit down and really, you know, back to the draw. You want that? Okay. Okay, cool. But looking back at. Yeah, I up. That wasn't the way to go. Because all you doing is creating something that cost and it's going to cost you over time. And you got to maintain to be able to afford that cost. If not, where they going? Out the door.

[Jessica]

Yeah.

[Rome]

So I created a problem for myself and that's where I went depressed at a long time ago as well. Trying to maintain a lifestyle that I really couldn't keep up with because of I had more children.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

I love that you're self aware of it though.

[Jessica]

Wrong.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Because like a lot of people have the mother wound and don't even know that they're turning to external things to self soothe like the alcohol, the sex with the other women. Like they don't even realize I'm. I'm only doing this because I'm actually hurt.

[Rome]

And there's no disrespect to my lady now, but like. Well, it was no disrespect to my child. Mom, everyone's him. But it was a time I went on a rampage. Felt like one of them athlete type. And it's not. I'm not a. It's not good. I'm not ashamed of it, I'm not glorifying it, but that it just. I don't know. I don't know if other men feel like that. But yeah, it was a different woman every day for probably two months. Didn't care about it, didn't know their names, didn't nothing.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Sometimes you gotta let a legend be a legend.

[Rome]

And it's like. Because like bro, like people don't understand people. They judge you so much, but people don't understand. So like I said.

[Jessica]

And I do feel like he has a lot. Well, I'm gonna talk to you. I do feel like you have issues with your other co parents, the other moms of your children. Because y' all never got past all the hurt that y'. All that you know that. That they had endured in the relationship. Y' all never got past.

[Rome]

Yeah, no, y'. All.

[Jessica]

Y' all never sat down. Okay, so we never sat down with you. Yes, we.

[Rome]

You and we sat down after the fact.

[Jessica]

Well, yes, yes.

[Rome]

We already been co parent. No, don't put on you on them. No, I'm over everything. Over them.

[Jessica]

Okay.

[Rome]

They don't want to. And honestly, I can't figure it out. And I'm done trying to figure it out. That's why I lost hair.

[Jessica]

I'm done.

[Rome]

But no, no, I'm one for five. I'm good.

[Jessica]

No, I know, I understand. But I was just saying that's why it's not a healthy co parenting team there. Because y' all didn't get through the issues. Y' all never really sat down and had those uncomfortable conversations and got the closure on the relationship side to move forward on the co parenting side. That y' all never did what we did. You know what I mean? We were already past each other once we sat down and talked. But y' all were always just bickering. Every relationship after, you know, you and I, when you had a kid, it was just a bunch of bickering. And now that you're here saying that, yes, I was hurt. I was hurt. I was hurt. They didn't understand that. They didn't understand that, you know, and you got bitter. Baby moms, like I say in the book, it's okay to be bitter. Just don't stay there. But you kept them there because you kept going back, dealing with this one, then you're dealing with that. When you never close the door with this one and then you dealing with this one, this one gotta be, why

[Rome]

did I keep going back? Why did I keep going back and going back?

[Jessica]

Because it was convenient.

[Rome]

No, for you. Why did I keep going back? And going back was because that was the only way that I can get my child. I went back three times to two different women.

[Jessica]

I do remember why.

[Rome]

Because that was the only way that they would be out of their feelings. And I can see my child.

[Jessica]

I do remember that.

[Rome]

And I'm gonna speak on my last child, mom, we will never be like you, but we moving in that direction. Charlemagne. We talked about it earlier. You said, why did you move back from South Carolina? And I stated at that time, me and my last child, mom, we wasn't seeing eye to eye. We wasn't talking. I couldn't even FaceTime them then. It wasn't till I brought the kids back up here for school before it hit Me that damn. I'm just down here by myself. I don't know how to function without just going to work. Might get some free time to myself and get my kids. I don't know how to function like that. So I try to do everything I could with them for them to one and a half months before they went to school. But Prosper, I wasn't talking to Prosper. I couldn't see Prosper. I couldn't FaceTime. So I'm in the back of my mind, I'm like, damn. He said he a baby. Is he. Did he even know me? It's crazy you said that. Do you even know me like that? Is he? I don't know. And, and that hurt it so no, my uncle tough love. And I'm glad that I had my uncle around. He like, man, suck that shit up. You'll be all right. So that kept going. My son mom get diagnosed with breast cancer. Sat on it for like two weeks if I was wanting to move back or not because I felt like. And she said no, she had moved on, she had a friend or whatever the case may be. But I wasn't moving back for that. I was moving back because I wanted to be closer to my son. And I felt like she needed me more to be there physically for my son because of the transition that was

[Jessica]

about to happen because imagine what she's

[Rome]

going through and that transition is long chemo, radiation.

[Jessica]

Yes.

[Rome]

And she decided to take that route instead of going. I know some people that went to was the natural holistic route.

[Jessica]

So which I moved back and Prosper was a baby, he was young. So that was a lot of pressure on her. You know what I mean? So yeah. Although she has family, they're not always there for her. She has to do a lot by herself too. You know, she has another kid and

[Rome]

then they say when, you know, when she explained that to me, when you're going through that you need as much support as you can.

[Jessica]

Yes.

[Rome]

So no, I didn't think, oh no, I'm gonna be with this woman. No, I said this woman need me. Yeah. She do have another child as well. But I said this woman needs me. And I moved back, got to see my son and that was history. And now we. Like I said. So I'm saying I don't have another co parenting with all of them but my last one. And they, the twins, Ash and the Prost, they look just alike. Yeah. So I got a co parenting with her and yeah. But I feel like if she didn't which Wasn't diagnosed, I might have not moved back so fast. But, yeah, that was one of the things. And I'm dealing with that now. Of course, you know, I was hurt about that because I projected my. Once again, I projected another. My trauma on my son as well. I'm like, I don't want baby to be without his mother. That's all I'm thinking about. Like, I don't want that phone call and I'm not there. Gotcha.

[Jessica]

Right. That's what I wanted you to say. I ain't gonna say yes. You didn't want him to lose his mom.

[Rome]

Yeah, but she. She healthy now and she needed. She doing. She's in a gym. She's fit, beautiful. She's high spirit. Still chasing her dreams. But, yeah, that's what's up. Prospers. You know, you about to turn four, June. Yeah, but it's two for five. I ain't mean to keep saying one. It's two for five.

[Jessica]

Yeah, I do see it being five for five with. With like, this negative, this book. No, seriously, it's the space that y' all in right now. I understand, but I do see it being that way.

[Rome]

Oh, I'm cutting you off. No. Prosper Three.

[Jessica]

Yeah.

[Rome]

Them other ones is still young. No Proxy three. And it happened. Them other ones is nine, ten, seven.

[Jessica]

No, y' all not gonna hate each other forever. Trust me.

[Rome]

Check this out. Check this out. I just wanna take care of my kids. I don't care if you hate me or you don't.

[DJ Envy]

I got.

[Rome]

Hey, everybody ain't gonna be like you. Everybody ain't coming to save me. Everybody don't care about if I'm happy or not. Because when I'm happy, everybody around me happy. So I get it. But I don't think like that no more because that burns me up and eats me up. It's night. Swear, you know, whatever the case may be. But no, I take my first and last, and I'm good with that. Now, when the mother ones start to be mature. Oh, here, take your kid. Don't just.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Yeah, I get what both y' all are saying. I get what Jess is saying. I get what you were saying. Just is like, you know, this book should show you that healing is possible because y' all weren't always in. In the best.

[Rome]

But we ain't never been like this. Yeah. I never not seen my kid for this long. I don't give a. About not having a relationship with the woman. I don't give my kid. Yeah, give me my kid. That's all I got. But if you take. If you're using that against me, obviously it's something you. That ain't right. You're a up person.

[Jessica]

Right. But at one, at some point, y' all loved each other.

[Rome]

That's in the past.

[Jessica]

Yeah, I know, but I'm saying it's still. It still existed, you know, so if you can. If you not. I'm not saying get back to that place, but at one point, if there was a point where you did love a person, then you can actually see the good in them. You know what I mean? To try to start to mend that. And that just starts with confronting the things that eat you up about that person. That's all it is. It's just an uncomfortable conversation. But I ain't gonna get you riled up no more. There is one thing before we end, there's one thing. I know

[Rome]

because. No, no, because this is a topic that now the world is talking about it. Yeah, I talked about it before, but you know. Yeah.

[Jessica]

I mean, we've been doing this since the pandemic.

[Rome]

The funny part about it is because even right now I'm talking and I. I'm going through this like. Yeah, I moved back clearly a year and a half ago. Seen my 9 year old daughter twice. When I came back, twice a mother text called me probably 11 o'. Clock, 3, 4 last week. A night. You calling this leaf for. I missed it because I was sleep next morning. What up? Oh, I'm ready to have a conversation about our daughter. Are you free? I said, well, I said, what would the conversation be about other than her you went missing. I didn't. I did. I own it. So here's a father trying to be a father.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

That's real.

[Rome]

Guess what I said. Hey, she like, can I call? I'm like Ash and Bryce in the process. Sleep. Talk to you tomorrow. I can meet you tomorrow after I dropped him off to school

[Jessica]

and that's it. Did you.

[Rome]

Did you 30th went missing again. Okay, text. Hey, Free.

[DJ Envy]

Hey.

[Rome]

So it's like. But she'll call me a deadbeat. You see where I'm going at with it? I'm not bashing her. She's a great mom.

[Jessica]

All of them are.

[Rome]

But she'll call me. Yeah, all of them are.

[Jessica]

Yeah.

[Rome]

I would never take that. I got a nice line up full of great moms. So with or without me, I think my kids, you know, besides the traumas. But whatever the case may be, I think they've been. They've been Taken care of. Well, yeah, but. But you see the type of things that fathers that actually care. I know some niggas that just don't give a fuck. Hey, I'm free. Want to meet up? Go missing again.

[Jessica]

Yeah.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

What I want to know is why I haven't just sent her a copy of the book.

[Jessica]

They just came out the other day. I'm gonna get four of them.

[Podcast Host (e.g., Cheryl Strayed or Maya Shankar)]

I know.

[Jessica]

I'm gonna send four of them out.

[Rome]

I'm honest, bro. I don't think she can read. No.

[Jessica]

Oh, my God.

[Rome]

What do you mean, no? I don't think they'll read it.

[Jessica]

You don't think they'll read it? Yeah. Two of them probably won't.

[Rome]

Two, three might want.

[DJ Envy]

Yeah.

[Rome]

Processing. My brother already read the whole book.

[Jessica]

Amazing. Thank you.

[Rome]

She read it. We was in court.

[Jessica]

Yeah.

[Rome]

Yeah. Whole thing.

[Jessica]

But that's good. That's the one that you're on good terms with. Like that? Yep.

[Rome]

And it's like. It's like. It's one of those things, man. For men. I'm protecting my mental. It is what it is. It ain't what it ain't. I'm a control. I. If I can't control. Only control what you can control. That's my logic. It is what it is. And when you. And when you go by that on a man or your peace part, things would be. It just come to you. It'd be easy. So like I said, if it happens, it happens. But I'm not expecting it to. Because if it don't, I won't be hurt again.

[Jessica]

Yeah.

[Rome]

I look so forward.

[DJ Envy]

Till death do we parent to the one that you writing.

[Rome]

And honestly, that's what it is. Hopefully I ain't gonna say it. Cause I don't want nobody try to steal my shit.

[Jessica]

Nobody gonna steal it.

[Rome]

It's not patented yet. Okay, but you have to be parent to part. What is it? Part two.

[Jessica]

It'll be part two.

[DJ Envy]

Yeah.

[Rome]

No, it's two. You have to be parent part two. Let a father be a father.

[Jessica]

Yeah. I love it. And I love you too.

[Rome]

Yo, are you more.

[Jessica]

I really do.

[DJ Envy]

The book is out right now.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

Make sure you get it, man. Suits my guy. Room sending room healing energy all the time, man.

[Jessica]

Yeah.

[Rome]

Hey, fellas. Protect your peace man.

[DJ Envy]

All right. It's the Breakfast Club.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

It's big room.

[Rome]

Not the little one.

[DJ Envy]

It's the Breakfast Club.

[Rome]

Good morning.

[Jessica]

And Jess. God damn. Okay.

[DJ Envy]

Sometimes. Sometimes.

[Jessica]

Shut up. No, that was good.

[Rome]

Yo. What? Hold up. Every day I wake up.

[Advertisement Voice]

Wake your ass up.

[Charlamagne Tha God]

The Breakfast Club.

[Rome]

Y' all finished or y' all done?

[Jessica]

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