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The Breakfast Club
INTERVIEW: Mickie Sherrill Speaks On New Jersey Gov. Run, Black Maternal Health, Generational Wealth + More
00:49:45
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- [00:00]
Mikie Sherrill
You're listening to an iHeart podcast.
- [00:05]
Dan Bush
What happens when we come face to face with death?
- [00:08]
Charlamagne Tha God
My truck was blown up by a 20 pound anti tank mine.
- [00:11]
Mikie Sherrill
My parachute did not deploy. I was kidnapped by a drug cartel.
- [00:16]
Dan Bush
When we step beyond the edge of what we know, I clinically died.
- [00:19]
Charlamagne Tha God
The heart stopped beating, which I was.
- [00:21]
DJ Envy
Dead for 11.5 minutes.
- [00:23]
Dan Bush
In return, it's a miracle I was.
- [00:25]
Charlamagne Tha God
Brought back Alive again.
- [00:26]
Dan Bush
A podcast about the strength of the human spirit. Listen to Alive again on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
- [00:35]
Charlamagne Tha God
Wake that ass up early in the morning. The Breakfast Club.
- [00:39]
DJ Envy
Morning everybody. It's DJ Envy. Just hilarious. Charlamagne, the guy we are the Breakfast Club. We got a special guest in the building.
- [00:46]
Charlamagne Tha God
Yes, indeed.
- [00:46]
DJ Envy
She's U.S. representative for New Jersey's 11th congressional district and she's running for governor. Mikey Sherrill. Welcome.
- [00:53]
Mikie Sherrill
Thank you so much.
- [00:54]
Charlamagne Tha God
And for the record, we're all residents in New Jersey, so we will be voting, so.
- [00:58]
Mikie Sherrill
Oh, okay.
- [00:58]
Charlamagne Tha God
We're having this conversation as constituents and.
- [01:01]
Mikie Sherrill
Potential voters been raised. Got it.
- [01:02]
Charlamagne Tha God
That's right.
- [01:03]
DJ Envy
Well, how are you feeling?
- [01:03]
Mikie Sherrill
First and foremost, I'm feeling good. I'm feeling very tired, but you know, it's just that time. We have 21 days today until the election, so it's that final sprint now.
- [01:15]
DJ Envy
I was gonna say New Jersey Transit this morning, finally it looks like people can go back to work. The strike is over.
- [01:22]
Mikie Sherrill
Yes, but the traffic this morning was horrible. So maybe people weren't quite ready to go back to their normal transit option. So hopefully now they're there.
- [01:36]
DJ Envy
Now. What was your involvement with the negotiations? Were you involved with the negotiations with that? Were you involved with getting that deal done at all or no?
- [01:44]
Mikie Sherrill
Yes, I did everything. No, my involvement was just constantly touching base with NJ Transit and the unions and just saying, look, guys, the commuter, I mean, this is. The commuters can't take it. Like, yeah, we gotta get people to work. And it just, you know, you guys are in New Jersey, it feels like everything is falling down. I mean, Newark Airport, I mean, when you just can't even count on an airport, an international airport, one of the most trafficked, you know, airports in the nation, that, that can't function. And then your train line, I mean, everything just starts to feel like it's falling apart here.
- [02:25]
Charlamagne Tha God
You said something the other day that you know, is so simp. And I can't believe more elected officials aren't saying it, but you were criticizing the lack of urgency in regards to Newark Airport. That's what I don't understand. Like, what, are we just waiting for something bad to happen?
- [02:39]
Mikie Sherrill
It appears so, because it really. The Secretary of Transportation just doesn't seem to be moving on this. And again, you know, I'm a former Navy helicopter pilot. I've flown in really crowded airspace. So in that D.C. airspace where that helicopter crash happened, I flew through there as we were taking people up from Norfolk to the Pentagon. And I'm telling you, 90 seconds outage in crowded airspace where you've got, you know, people on visual, flight rules, and then you've got people landing. That's a lifetime. And the fact that that's happened more than once, the fact that the Secretary of Transportation has canceled his wife's flight out of Newark and yet hasn't surged personnel in, hasn't said, here's how we're gonna make the system more redundant so it doesn't keep breaking down, hasn't come up with a plan of attack for this again. It's just the constant incompetence from this administration that just not doing the basic work of government is what, as much as anything, is just putting everybody at risk.
- [03:49]
Charlamagne Tha God
Yeah, I saw a statement from him this morning where he said, now is the time to install a state of the art, you know, air traffic control system in the Newark. But my thing is, like, you're the Secretary of Transportation, like, do it. Get it done.
- [04:02]
Mikie Sherrill
Yeah. What is he just saying that? Hoping somebody does it? What the hell? I totally agree with you. And if that's gonna take a minute, what are we gonna do in the meantime? We can't just say, okay, we're just gonna take this airport down for the summer. What's the plan until that is installed?
- [04:18]
Charlamagne Tha God
Is it worth shutting down Newark Airport right now?
- [04:21]
Mikie Sherrill
Well, no, we don't want to shut down newer care part. I mean, imagine, like, just think about, okay, people have, you know, kids that are graduating, people have parents that they have to go see that are sick. People have to get around. People have business.
- [04:35]
Charlamagne Tha God
Yeah, I'm a comedian. I travel every weekend. I get on a plane and fly somewhere every Friday.
- [04:40]
Mikie Sherrill
So just. And I don't know, I love Newark normally.
- [04:44]
Charlamagne Tha God
Yeah, I do.
- [04:45]
Mikie Sherrill
I go way out of my way not to have to fly out of JFK or LaGuardia, right?
- [04:51]
Charlamagne Tha God
Same.
- [04:52]
Mikie Sherrill
Yes, ma' am. So the idea that somehow we're just going to take that out of service. No, we can't. We got to fix it. We got to fix the problem.
- [04:59]
Charlamagne Tha God
But in the meantime, like, you don't want people to die, and that's when you know, we had Mayor Baraka here yesterday and he was saying that, well this morning and he was saying that people walked off like, you know, air traffic controllers left because they didn't want to be responsible for somebody potentially dying.
- [05:13]
Mikie Sherrill
Well, they Also, in the 92nd delay, I mean air traffic control is really difficult and they, you know, that was traumatic to be responsible for people's lives to have flights in the air and you can't talk to them and just be watching them, you know, as you're like, holy crap. So they are now on trauma leave, many of them. So they are down 20%. And then we saw the reporting. They're supposed to have 11 to 14 air traffic controllers and they had two or three.
- [05:48]
Charlamagne Tha God
That makes no sense.
- [05:50]
Mikie Sherrill
It really doesn't. And this is why we need strong Democratic governors. I mean it really is why I'm running for governor. It is so critically important now because as governor we need to then have, have partnerships with our colleges and universities that fast track people through the air traffic control training and then just start to surge them in. So governors are now having to take on the work that traditionally we left to the federal government because this is a federal government in free fall.
- [06:20]
Charlamagne Tha God
So if you were governor of New Jersey now, would you, I don't know, would you declare a state of emergency at Newark airport? Like what would you do?
- [06:26]
Mikie Sherrill
So this is the problem as we start to reorient our system, right? So what I would do is immediately get up a pro, stand up a program so we could start to train people, send them to that fast track them through the air traffic control school down in Oklahoma, get them back as quickly as possible and start to develop this out and have that so that we have our own pool of people. But again, you don't anticipate if you're, that you don't anticipate that the federal government is just going to start abdicating all responsibility for things. So this training pipeline would take time to get them trained up. But yes, I declare State of Merchant. Get that done quickly, as quickly as possible so that we could stand this up and at the same time be working towards, okay, what's it going to take then? If you are going to put in place the equipment that's going to be necessary to run these and is, you know, how does a governor do that? I'm at this point I am for a hugely expansive role for a governor because we can't count on our federal government. And that's. I make even that statement coming out of my mouth sounds Crazy. But how do we avoid the facts?
- [07:39]
Charlamagne Tha God
It's the reality. Yeah.
- [07:40]
DJ Envy
I wanted to ask something that you said earlier. You said that you were in the Naval Academy, and at the time you were at the Naval Academy, there weren't many women at the Naval Academy. So what made you want to join the Naval Academy? And what did you think when they banned Maya Angelou's books from the Naval Academy?
- [07:58]
Mikie Sherrill
So I wanted to fly from the time I was in elementary school. My grandfather was a pilot in World War II. And I went to my dad in about the fifth grade and said, I want to be a pilot. And he said, well, that's really expensive. You have to go in the military if you want to get that training. And I said, okay, I'll go to the Air Force Academy. And my dad goes, you don't want to go to the Air Force Academy. That's new. You want to go to one of the cool ones. He said, you want to go to West Point or the Naval Academy? I said, I want to fly. He goes, I think the Navy flies because my grandfather was in service, but my parents weren't. So I said, okay, I'm going to the Naval Academy. And he said, well, I don't know if they let women go to the Naval Academy. And I think as much as my desire to fly, being told that they somehow weren't letting women go to the. I think as much as anything that made me say, well, I'm going there, right? I'm doing that. And then he said, well, I don't know if they let women fly. And so when I went, women in the military were sort of like a second class citizenry because they weren't able to go into combat. And if you're in the United States military, that's a second class role. That's the difference between saying, like, okay, we're going to put you on a destroyer or we're going to put you on a hospital ship. Who's going to make admiral? And so even the role that women there was a separate track for women that was called General Unrestricted Line Girl. That was the pathway for women. So opening up combat to women actually changed everything. And so it took time. But the first person, the first woman who was the commanding officer of an aircraft carrier came from my class. That would have been unthinkable. In fact, the first woman chief of Naval Operations, we just had Lisa Franketti. And when I was at the Naval Academy, the Chief of Naval Operations spoke to the Brigade of Midshipmen and was directly asked, when will Women serve on subs. His response, not in my lifetime. And he got a standing ovation from the Brigade of midshipmen. So this change I saw in my lifetime was amazing and. And validating because none of us, like, want to be treated like crap. Like, I didn't go to the Naval Academy to be treated like crap so that, you know, one day my daughter could be treated like crap. Right? You do this because you think you're breaking barriers. You think you're making life better and setting the table for future generations to do better, and that's why you go through some of that. And I thought it was working. And now we have this president, and one of the very first things he did was fire the black chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, CQ Brown, and the woman chief of Naval operations. That was almost day one. And then he goes after the Naval Academy. And so he seems to think it's more dangerous to read Maya Angelou than Adolf Hitler's Mein Kampf. And again and again and again, attacking the service of women, attacking the service of people of color. And so here you feel, so what have I accomplished, right? All that. All that fight, you know, all. All that women have gone through, to see that momentum, to see it working, I mean, I think that's why I was able to become a member of Congress, because I. I had the opportunity to take on roles in the military that were seen as powerful roles, as opposed to girl. And I think that's what led to me being able to compete and have my resume and do this job. And so to see all that being attacked in this way is really. It's really disgusting, and it's heartbreaking.
- [11:51]
Charlamagne Tha God
What about Pete Hexseff, Secretary of Defense? He said, I'm straight up just saying we should not have women in combat roles. It hasn't made us more effective, hasn't made us more lethal, has made fighting more complicated. He said that on a podcast hosted by Sean Ryan on the newspaper.
- [12:05]
Mikie Sherrill
Oh, I know he's on the House Armed Services Committee. I'm well aware of what that nitwit says. And he seems to think that if you can just do 100 pushups, that you are ready to lead. I mean, I think if there is ever an example of why everything he said on that podcast is completely incorrect, he is a living embodiment of that. This is a guy who projects tough guy imagery, who does his hundred pushups and who can't lead worth a damn. I mean, that guy has run more organizations into the ground, and now he's working to do the same thing at the Pentagon. He has put out classified information on an unsecure platform in a way that would get like a petty officer court martialed. And he's the Secretary of Defense and he has no accountability for himself or others. And he also said that he just wanted a meritocracy. I'm thinking to myself, yeah, me too, me too. I'd like to see a meritocracy and not your butt in this office. Because he has been the most incompetent Secretary of defense this nation has ever seen. As he preaches, oh, you know, others can't compete.
- [13:20]
Charlamagne Tha God
You're running for governor of Jersey. What's the first thing you do to show that this isn't like you're just not another politician chasing a title?
- [13:28]
Mikie Sherrill
Yeah, I think that's why I talk about my background. I think we've gone through a lot of debates and forums and I think my colleagues are a little sick of hearing about my background. I joke, but I say it all the time because I think having that lifetime of service, I tell people I took my first oath to the Constitution when I was a teenager.
- [13:47]
Justina Valentine
What is that?
- [13:49]
Charlamagne Tha God
So when I. I know what it is, I'm joking. Like, is the Constitution. I feel like we're in a post constitutional society.
- [13:54]
Mikie Sherrill
I'm like, oh, I took a no, I raised my hand no. Yeah, I hear you. But that centers me and it centers my work and it centers my belief in what this country should be. And so I talk about that background in the Navy, at the U.S. attorney's office, in Congress, and having four kids. So I care about the future. I talk about that a lot to show people this is not some Johnny come lately ideal. I have that suddenly I'm worried about X, Y or Z. This is my life's work. And serving people is what I love to do and I care deeply about. And I think I'm pretty good at it and can really affect change in a powerful way. And that's why I'm running for governor, because I say in the Navy, we're trained to run to the fight and to run to the crisis. I think the front lines of what we've got to do in this country, that's taking place at the state level. It's taking place with powerful Democratic governors, expanding state power, figuring out a pathway through this as something unforeseen happens as the President of the United States attempts to ruin the economy of the United States, to enrich himself, and attempts to attack all of our rights and freedoms. We need strong Democratic leadership in the state houses. And that's not gonna be enough. It's not enough to say, I'm gonna fight Trump. That's necessary. But you also have to then lay out a path of Democratic, competent governance, because there's a lot of people out there that rightly would say, mikey, that's great, I want you to fight Trump, but you're also running for governor of the state of New Jersey, and I can't afford anything. Nobody around here can buy a house. Nobody can afford their rental prices. Utility costs are set to go up, and, you know, healthcare is a mess. So that's great. I want you to fight Trump, but I also want you to fight for me and govern. And I think sometimes as we get drawn into the fight against what Trump is doing, we also don't talk about the ways in which we're actually envisioning governing in a better path. And I think now more than ever, as we see this complete incompetent, some of which we've talked about today coming from the federal government, competent Democratic government. I know that doesn't sound sexy, but that is going to be really, really powerful. And so I believe that I need to lay out a vision, if I'm running for governor of two things, how I'm going to protect this state against the cast from Washington. But also I need to lay out a vision of how your life is gonna be better, because I'm governor. And I think that's a piece that sometimes, as we get caught up in our fears from what the future might hold as we take down the Constitution, we don't always talk about how we're gonna actually impact people on the ground, how we're gonna impact their lives.
- [16:49]
DJ Envy
You talk about fighting against Trump and going against him, but some people would say, to get things done, you have to work with Trump in his White House somehow, some way. So you wouldn't work with Trump in his White House at all.
- [17:00]
Mikie Sherrill
Look, if Duffy comes in here and says, okay, I'm gonna work with you to. Actually, I'm trying to think of something that I can say on radio.
- [17:09]
DJ Envy
You can say whatever you want.
- [17:11]
Mikie Sherrill
Unscrew up this situation.
- [17:16]
Charlamagne Tha God
But you need the federal government, right? You do.
- [17:18]
Mikie Sherrill
As a governor, we need to find as many pathways as we can. But I think when people say they want you to work with Trump. Cause a lot of. A lot of people say, I want my governor to work with Trump, what they mean is, I want you to stop him from doing this crazy stuff. I want you to fix the tariff situation that's making my small business go under. I want you to go talk to him because we need the Canadians to come to Wildwood because we're a tourism industry. I need you to make sure he's not arresting a family member of mine in the middle of the night without charges. I need you to make sure that they're not cutting funds to Medicaid and the Department of Education. So I need you to go work with Trump. That is fair. What's. I think a false proposition is if you think that by saying, okay, I'm just gonna give up on diversity programs in my state, I'm not gonna try to get people in my state to succeed that aren't already there because I'm working with Trump, that's a false proposition because that's when the bullying starts. Because that's when it's. You know, what I say is it's not as if these law firms that have caved to Trump or these schools that have caved to Trump, that's not gonna be the last ask. It's not a one off thing like, okay, I'm gonna cave today and then he's gonna leave me alone and I'm just gonna run my game. That's not how that goes. I say, he's like that bully on the playground, right? So you give your lunch money on Monday, they're coming back Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. No parent says, just give your lunch money, just work with them. I mean that no parent has ever said to their kid getting bullied on the playground, just work with them. Just give in. That's not how you deal with this. And I think it's a false trap to suggest that somehow it's the responsibility of a governor to undermine our values, to get some thing from the federal government. The federal government is supposed to be working in service of the people of this country, not the state government working in service of Trump. I think that's a false idea.
- [19:25]
Charlamagne Tha God
Yeah, I just wonder, I'm just asking, I wonder how effective it is for, you know, officials on the state level to kind of, you know, curate their campaigns around being anti Trump. Because you're not going against Trump on the ballot. You might be going against people who support Trump, but I feel like, shouldn't y' all be aiming it more at the people you're going at on the state level?
- [19:47]
Mikie Sherrill
Yeah, no, I think it's really important again to lay out the actual vision on the state level. Like, I've gone over and over and over all the ways in which we can build Houses and drive down costs. How we need to build out a clean energy future in New Jersey that actually increases capacity, drives down costs and drives down carbon. Fix our broken healthcare system again and again and again, because people need to hear that. And then also pointing out, to your point, I think that Jack Cittarelli, the Republican, I think the Republican opponent in this race has basically, according to Trump, become 100% MAGA, has said himself he's not going to oppose any of Trump's executive orders. So these could be things like taking down Social Security, and has said that he is going to put in place an abortion ban and defund Planned Parenthood. So I do think it's important to go after the actual people on the ground because we know that if Jack Cittarelli's the next governor, New Jersey just becomes a little annex of Washington. So much like Mar a Lago, we now have Bedminster, and that's kind of White House 2.0, which is not what we need in New Jersey.
- [20:59]
DJ Envy
And as governor, what will you do specifically for the black and brown community? What are you, what are your thoughts and goals for our community?
- [21:07]
Mikie Sherrill
So I think that comes, I mean, I don't want to sound like a broken record, but that comes back to housing too, largely because that's the number one thing I hear from the black and brown community is housing. And we know how important it is. I think housing is critical to building generational wealth. And I say that just looking, you know, even on my own team, one of the guys on my team, his dad died unexpectedly when he was young. And it was their equity in their home that saved the family as they kind of went through that change. So we can see that operating on the ground. And we know in New Jersey that 70% of white families own their own home and under 40% of black families. So that's why I think driving down the cost of housing, but then beefing up that first time home buyers program, right now it's at 15,000 to help defray the cost of the down payment. But you guys are from Jersey, you know that's not going to cut it, right? Like with cost of housing right now, 15,000 is just not going to help you afford that home. So that's going to be really important. The other issue that comes up a lot in the black community is black maternal health. And so I held a maternal health roundtable and I was talking to a woman who was actually a patient advocate in the hospital she was giving birth in. And even as a patient, somebody who helped other patients in the hospital, she did not get the care she needed as somebody and you know, she was told, oh, you'll be fine, you know, this hospital. But she still did not receive the care. She had two miscarriages before she took her, basically took her health care into her own hands. And was, it was, you know, from what she was talking about dictating then to doctors, no, I want you to do this. No, I want you to do this. But how many people, you know, I'm not one of them. Have the background in medical care and have the access. I mean, she worked in a hospital to do that, to say, okay, I'm doing all my own research and I'm basically becoming, you know, somebody who's well versed in medicine so I can take on my own care. That's not the normal. So that's why I think it's really important to have resources pushed in. And the Black Caucus has highlighted this. And chavon.
- [23:20]
Justina Valentine
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- [24:15]
Mikie Sherrill
Panoramic moonroof, ambient lighting, bows and massaging leather. Appointed seats are optional features.
- [24:20]
Justina Valentine
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- [25:16]
Dan Bush
Come face to face with death?
- [25:17]
Charlamagne Tha God
My truck was blown up by a 20 pound anti tank mine.
- [25:20]
Mikie Sherrill
My parachute did not deploy. I was kidnapped by a drug cartel. I just remember everything getting dark. I'm dying.
- [25:30]
Dan Bush
When we step beyond the edge of.
- [25:32]
Mikie Sherrill
What we know to open our consciousness to something more than just what's in.
- [25:36]
Justina Valentine
That western box and return.
- [25:39]
Mikie Sherrill
I clinically died.
- [25:40]
Charlamagne Tha God
The heart stopped beating, which I was.
- [25:42]
DJ Envy
Dead for 11.5 minutes.
- [25:44]
Dan Bush
My name is Dan Bush. My mission is simple to find, explore and share these stories.
- [25:49]
Mikie Sherrill
I'm not a victim. I'm a survivor.
- [25:51]
Charlamagne Tha God
You're strongest when you're the most vulnerable.
- [25:53]
Dan Bush
To remind me what it means to be alive. Not just that I was the guy.
- [25:56]
Mikie Sherrill
That cut his arm off, but I'm.
- [25:58]
Dan Bush
The guy who was smiling when he cut his arm off. Alive Again, a podcast about the fragility of life, the strength of the human spirit, and what it means to truly live. Listen to Alive again on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
- [26:15]
Angela Yee
I have a question for you and I want you to be honest with me. How are you? It's a really hard question to ask. It's a harder one to answer. But taking care of our mental well being has never been more important. All of May is Mental Health Awareness Month and on the psychology of youf 20s podcast we are taking a vulnerable look at why mental health is so hard to talk about and all the science and psychology behind some of life's hardest moments and transitions. Prepare for our conversations to go deep. Everything from grief to heartbreak, career burnout, anxiety. All of the things that you would only talk about with your closest friends.
- [26:53]
Mikie Sherrill
I spent the majority of my teenage years and my twenties just feeling absolutely terrified.
- [26:58]
Charlamagne Tha God
I had a panic attack on a.
- [27:00]
Mikie Sherrill
Conference call knowing that she had six months to live.
- [27:02]
Charlamagne Tha God
I was no longer pretending that this.
- [27:04]
Mikie Sherrill
Was my best friend.
- [27:05]
Angela Yee
So this Mental Health Awareness Month, take that extra bit of care of yourself and your brain. Listen to the psychology of your 20s on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [27:18]
Mikie Sherrill
Sumter has worked on this. The first lady of New Jersey has made this a real issue. And so putting in resources and communities that need care like Trent is really important. But it's sort of necessary but not sufficient because you can't just build a resource center and then keep doing things the same way and expect different results. So that's why I think getting doulas in and midwives in is important, because a doula could be your advocate all through the birth process. And I really, you guys seem like really nice guys and maybe you're really tough, but it's been my experience in the healthcare system that women are just a lot tougher. And so we go in.
- [28:01]
Charlamagne Tha God
My wife used to doula our last two, our last two births and she salute to Latham. She's amazing.
- [28:07]
Mikie Sherrill
But women don't advocate for themselves like they should in healthcare. So I have learned over time. But now I'm in my 50s, like this was not something I was doing in my 20s and 30s. So when people, and when I was giving birth. So people say to you, like, what's your pain level? Is it one to, you know, ten's the worst, one's the worst. And I'm always like, I guess it's like a three. You know, I've now learned that if I'm gonna get any attention whatsoever, you have to be like, it's like a 10. Yeah, I'm always a 10. I'm like, it's a 10. I'm like, It's a 10. Uh huh. Like, come on. That's what a doula can do is like, okay, this isn't right. You, you know, I know you can take a lot, but this isn't right and you need more care and I need a doctor in here or you need some anesthesia or, you know, let's get this going because this is gonna get right.
- [28:57]
Charlamagne Tha God
And they fuck your mouthpiece like, you know, like they talk for you because you're busy in pain trying to give birth. But doulas are expensive too. Like they, they're not affordable for everyone, you know what I mean? So.
- [29:10]
Mikie Sherrill
Right. So that's why I support the governor. Yeah, the governor has a program to have Medicaid cover doulas and I think that's really important. And then as governor, I'm also going to make sure that we are pushing through certified doulas into the system because many hospital, you know, people, it's a change in the system and systems don't like Change. So making sure that that's there and then not stopping there. So that helps with the actual birth process. But we also know that a lot of things can happen in that first year. There's a lot of postpartum depression, for example. And when you give birth, it's a really weird experience because you're with your OB right before, as you're pregnant, you're with this OB kind of nonstop. And they're monitoring everything. I mean, you're getting every test known to man, your blood pressure's being taken every minute, and as you get really close, you're there. It feels like hourly, right? You're doing all this stuff. And so then you give birth and that person just disappears. Not there, they're gone. I've had that experience, right? It's so weird. And suddenly you're asking, you're like talking to a nurse or you're talking to the pediatrician and you're like, I'm really like. And they're like, oh, yeah, I don't know, they're taking care of the baby suddenly. And so if you're struggling, if you're having postpartum depression, if you're even starting to hemorrhage in a way that you're not sure because you're supposed to have some level of bleed, all of this is suddenly just on you. And so that's why again, having the check ins, having telehealth, so people can do remote monitoring and making sure that somebody is keeping. Because the thing you do when you're depressed, right, is you isolate yourself. And so you need to make sure. Or we need to make sure that we have people pushing in to say, how you doing? How are you feeling? Have you gone for your checkup? Have you done this? And then some of the basic like stuff that's just basic, like, here's a stroller, get out of the house. You know, here's how you do that. Or look, I'm just gonna come and I'm gonna help you pack a diaper bag and I'm gonna help you get out of the house with this newborn. Because, you know, by my four, I have four kids. By my fourth kid, I was like taking a newborn, throw them in a baby carrier. I was living in the city at the time, throwing them in a baby carrier. I had like a couple diapers in my purse and I'm ready to go. That first kid, I mean, I have my husband come with me to the pediatrician. I have this huge stroller. I have everything known to man in the Diaper bag. And I'm like a nervous wreck, like, I don't know, you know, what am I doing? So having somebody kind of say, hey, look, I've done this before, you're fine, this baby's fine, do this, we're okay, you know, that too, I think is a really important piece of this and what many people in this space have been advocating for. And so as governor, I'm going to make sure we also have that first year program to make sure people are successfully having outcomes too, even in the first year, not just up to giving birth, but the postpartum.
- [32:11]
Charlamagne Tha God
When you talk about, you talk about the housing, the black maternal health rate, but you know, you think about Newark, you think about Camden, think about Patterson. Like those cities have been overlooked by Trenton for years. So how you gonna make sure your agenda doesn't just serve the suburbs and it hits those hoods like Newark, Patterson and Camden.
- [32:30]
Mikie Sherrill
Ironically, Trenton has been overlooked by Trenton for years as well. So I think as you're making sure that we're building out the state, and really a big agenda of mine is to build houses. And by housing, I mean all means of property that a person can develop ownership over. So as we're building out, I think pushing into places like Newark and Patterson and Trenton and building out like Trenton, for example, is a great place to start to build out. In their heyday, I think 190,000 people, now they're down to about 80,000. So that's a great place to build. They have the capacity which a lot of areas of our state don't. You can build densely, they have a great transportation system, but you need to push in resources you need to address. And each town that you're mentioning has slightly different issues that would need to be addressed to help that town grow and have businesses. So for Trenton, for example, a lot of their problem is that it's the only business in town is the state. And when state workers aren't going to work, then every restaurant goes out of business if they're not working from the state building. So the state, I think needs to take a strong look at like, do we need all these office buildings? Can we give some of them up for other business development? Can we move in? Because you know, the great thing about a lot of our urban areas is that they have great transportation. And so really building transit oriented development is a great opportunity. But the thing that I think we need to do better as we build out a lot of these cities is create opportunities for ownership. So apartments are really important, right? Like A lot of people, I lived in apartments when I was young. That's great. We need them. You know, the cost of rentals is incredibly high here, so we need to build more to drive down the cost. But we need condos. We need people to be able to start to develop that generational wealth.
- [34:28]
Charlamagne Tha God
You gotta be able to afford those though. Like it starts with, you know, putting some money in their pockets so they can even afford a condo.
- [34:33]
Mikie Sherrill
Well, that's why we have to put, that's why the first time homeowner program is so important that we beef up so we put money in their pockets so they can afford at least the down payment, building out more. It's a supply and demand issue. So we can drive down the cost. And then also I think making sure that we fully fund the Affordable Housing Trust Fund because building out some of these places, we have to defray the cost because the cost of building here is too high and that leads to prices being hiked. And then finally we've got to cut through the permitting and regulatory process that drives up costs, it prevents building because the costs get so high. So if you look at like Fort Monmouth, great place to build out, right? I think they were bracked and was it 2011 maybe that they, that they went out of business of being a base. And so we've had programs in place for years that we've tried to build out. I think two, at least two housing programs have fallen under because the permitting just took way too long. This is a place that was built out, that had housing that we just want to repurpose and build denser housing. And we can't get through the permitting process. So that drives up a whole host of costs. So that's why the, that's why we need to drive down the, the permitting times and the regulatory times, but also push in to the Affordable Housing Trust Fund to defray the cost of building so we can keep those home prices down as well.
- [35:58]
DJ Envy
What are your thoughts on the congestion pricing and how it's affecting especially people from New Jersey, super duper expensive. They're saying that it cuts down traffic, but it's cutting down a lot of business in the cities. What are your thoughts on that? And is there any way to maybe file a lawsuit against New York to stop all this bs?
- [36:13]
Mikie Sherrill
I am smiling so much because I'm feeling like I'm in a safe space because usually when I'm in New York and somebody brings up congestion, they're like, why aren't you for congestion pricing? It's so good I'm like, really? In New York, New Yorkers, I thought they hated.
- [36:28]
DJ Envy
I hate it.
- [36:28]
Mikie Sherrill
Yeah, well, they don't. They don't pay it. They're in New York. They're not. You know, it's just paying for their transit system. I mean, paying for the mta. But I always tell them, I'm like, look, no governor, nobody who wants to be governor of New Jersey could ever be for the congestion pricing as is. It is just basically taking money out of New Jerseyans pockets and putting it into New York infrastructure like the mta.
- [36:53]
Charlamagne Tha God
And.
- [36:53]
Mikie Sherrill
And then they're like, well, a lot of New Jerseyans take the subway. I'm like, hmm. A lot of New Jerseyans take New Jersey transit. And a lot more would take New Jersey transit if we could run it better, if we had money for it. And so the congestion pricing, in my mind, if you really want to run a no kidding congestion pricing program and you want people off the street, and that's really your goal and not just, you know, using New Jerseyans to pay for New York infrastructure, then you put it into New Jersey infrastructure. Because then if we could run buses and trains more often, if they were more reliable, then people would take them more and you could get people out of cars. But to do it this way to me is just a cash grab. So I've been very opposed to it.
- [37:33]
Charlamagne Tha God
When you think about Lionsgate, you know, coming to Newark and you think about Netflix coming to my mouth, what do you, what do you think that's going to do for those communities? And how do we have, how do we make sure the communities are a part of all of that money that's going to be generated from both of them?
- [37:48]
Mikie Sherrill
Yeah, I think they provide a bunch of great jobs. I think that's, you know, that's awesome. And I think they're really good jobs for New Jerseyans because so many people in New Jersey are in the arts. We have, I think in my district, I have some of the most members of IATSE in the nation. So we have just tons of people involved, not just in, you know, in acting and directing and producing, but also in camera guys and, you know, the whole host of jobs that go with this. And they're great, and they're great union jobs. So they really can provide a really good quality of life for people. So I think it's awesome that they're coming. I'm really a big supporter. But to your point, we need to make sure that as we're developing these out, we're providing pathways. So I was just. We had a debate, not last night, but the night before, and we had the debate at the Donald Payne Technical School in Essex county in Newark. And it was amazing. I mean, this is the kind of school we need for our kids if they're going to get into good jobs. If you guys, you guys should go look at it, because I was just walking by and they have this whole studio there to build out, you know, training for these jobs. And so what we need to do then, if we're going to ensure that the people in the towns that they're serving, like in Newark, get access to those jobs, making sure that those kids that are getting that great training, I mean, this is like nothing at Montclair High School, right? It was like a huge technical studio, looked awesome. We need to make sure that we're working with Lionsgate, for example, and then walking it back and saying, what are you guys going to need? What's the training you're going to need? We're going to develop a program that's going to get kids right out of high school, if they want, into jobs right away. And then what we want to develop in New Jersey and what we are developing through our community colleges and other programs is this idea that you don't graduate from high school and make a decision that's going to be like the rest of your life. You don't have to decide the rest of your life the minute you graduate. So in other words, you can either go to college or you can go straight to work at Lionsgate because you have the capacity. And then maybe you have, you get there and you get some training and you get a certificate which can be a credit at a community college. You can go back to the community college for some higher training as you develop your career. So that, you know, we want to stack the degrees because that's what life is now, right? Even if you go and graduate from a four year college, the odds of that being like the last training you ever get in your life are really low. So I think having these options for kids as they graduate and, you know, I have four kids, they're all very different. Some are more ready to go off to college than others. Some are ready to just go off and build things, right? And so having that option and then, you know, sometimes when you go off and build it, you're like, the people that sort of build things are kind of entrepreneurs. So oftentimes you can see, like, you go there and you're like, gosh, this guy's running this company. But I Could run it better and I could actually add this to it. So if I have the opportunity. So is Essex County Community College training offering the exact training? And we see like I work with Morris County Community, the County College of Morris, and we have a lot of base manufacturing that goes on there, high end base manufacturing. So they offer these training and they work with the manufacturers to get people in and out of those jobs and higher and higher degrees. So I think that's exactly what we need to do to make sure. To your point that those jobs are going to the people in Newark, I think that's exactly working directly with them to kind of walk back. Okay, exactly what training do you want? And we're going to train your workforce for you.
- [41:34]
Charlamagne Tha God
Love that. I was watching msnbc, cnn, something I forgot which one it was. And I saw an ad that may have a rock and ran about you. And it said that you took $30,000 from Elon Musk's campaign fund and that you made millions on the stock market tripling your net worth while you were in Congress and you were fined for unreported trades. What do you say to that?
- [41:56]
Mikie Sherrill
So I've never taken money from Elon Musk.
- [41:59]
Charlamagne Tha God
There were people, I thought you took it and then donated it to charity.
- [42:02]
Mikie Sherrill
People from SpaceX, which was one of his, they donate. Individuals from SpaceX donated to my campaign. And I, yes, donated in kind to a food bank because I wanted people to know where I stood on it. And I have since offered legislation to have Elon Musk drug tested and to get him out of doging everything. But I also don't trade individual stocks. It's been widely reported. My husband doesn't trade. We don't trade individual stocks. I don't think anyone in Congress should, quite frankly. And I've been on legislation for that. So I don't hold individual stocks.
- [42:41]
Charlamagne Tha God
So when Newsmax claims that you made $7 million from stock trades, what are they talking about?
- [42:48]
Mikie Sherrill
Newsmax is first of all a very questionable organization that is paying multiple fines. I'm not sure what they're talking about. I would guess that the root of that would be because some of my husband's payments from his company of vintage, which are immediately and automatically sold. But there is no individual stock trade. It's not as if I go sit on the House Armed Services Committee and suddenly I'm trading Boeing or something. There's none of that. I'm totally out of individual stocks. And like I said, I think every member of Congress should be, well, did.
- [43:23]
Charlamagne Tha God
You make 7 million in stock trades at all?
- [43:27]
Mikie Sherrill
I haven't, I don't believe I did. But I'd have to go see what that was alluding to again. What kind of came from.
- [43:35]
Charlamagne Tha God
It was a report.
- [43:37]
Mikie Sherrill
No, I know it's from Newsmax, which.
- [43:38]
Charlamagne Tha God
Again then another one in the Washington Free Beacon, which is a conservative leaning platform, but they said you had increase from between 733,209 to over 4 million in 2019 and then between 4 million to 13 million in 2024. So that's where they got the 7 million increase.
- [44:00]
Mikie Sherrill
Yeah, yeah. Look, I, I, both my husband and I come from very middle class families. My parents were the first in their family to go to college and his were both teachers and then we both went into the military. And afterwards he got a good job and I, we've been really lucky. I really, I really deeply feel like this country has provided an incredible amount of opportunity to us. And that's why I think I feel a responsibility to sort of pay that forward. And that's why I think opportunity is so critically important. And I often when I think about what democracy means, to me it means opportunity. And it means not just opportunity for me, like Trump might say. And it doesn't mean opportunity to enrich myself. It means opportunity for the greatest amount of people possible. I think that's what democracy at its best offers. I love that idea that some political philosophers of democracy have, that you should create a society so that if you don't know how you're going to be born, if you don't know if you're going to be a man or a woman or rich or poor or black or white, you have no idea. You create a society and then get dropped into it because if you create that kind of society, then you're going to create something that gives everybody the best chance at opportunity. And we've had, we've been lucky. And so right now what I see is a president and Donald Trump who is trying to stop all opportunity, who's taking, you know, who's enriched himself and his billionaire cronies and is continuing to try to do that and then pulling up the ladder of success behind him. And I see that at every level. And that's why to kind of take it full circle. I think as Democratic governor running a state that creates that opportunity, like just with Lionsgate and creates pathways for opportunity pre distribution of wealth, like giving everyone that opportunity. Because we know like my parents weren't in the military. I have to tell you that the kids whose parents were admirals like, they knew that system. They did really well. Right? And all of the instructors knew their dad. And so I think creating that, what you're doing when you create opportunity and you're trying to create generational wealth is you're creating an opportunity for not just the individual, but that person to then get into a good job and then give their kids the kind of, you know, hey, I'm in this job and my buddy is running the summer internship and I'm going to get you a summer internship. You know, that's the kind of opportunity we're talking about. And that's what I think we have to create in New Jersey. And that's the exact opposite of what's happening in Washington. And I talk a lot about the military because that's my experience. But when I'm telling you that they're doing what they're doing to women, what they're doing to people of color, it's again, trying to like, say, these are the people that we see as succeeding. These are the people that are on the pathway to success and we're pulling up the ladder for everybody else.
- [47:19]
DJ Envy
What makes.
- [47:19]
Charlamagne Tha God
I agree. Hold on. I just want to be clear, though, because I agree with what you're saying, but I just want to be clear because this, this ad is running and I'm sure you'll be asked about this a million times. So, you know, if you get an opportunity to just clear it up, I think you should take it. Now. It says she made millions on the stock market, tripling her net worth while in Congress and was then fined for unreported trades. Is that true or false?
- [47:40]
Mikie Sherrill
So I think we made money from my husband's job. He gets paid in stocks. They're automatically sold. So I think we made money there. We don't make any individual money stock trading. We are out of all individual stocks because I want people to know that I'm not somehow gaining information and enriching myself because of my work in Congress. So that's really important to me. And I think every member of Congress should do that and am on legislation for that, because those stocks get immediately sold. We do a lot of reporting and at the end of the year, we did an audit of our reporting and I found. I didn't. The lawyers found a stock trade that had been automatically sold, and so we self reported it and paid a fine for that. But I think that's what that's alluding to. So certainly all of this, though, I think I'm one of the most transparent members because everything has been reported. And I'm continuing to try to always have transparency there because, again, I don't want anybody to think that I owe anything to anyone other than the people I serve or that I'm somehow enriching myself, because I think people have really low faith in government right now. I mean, you guys know this. And I think it's really incumbent. The standard has always been in my work in public service, whether it was in the Navy or at the U.S. attorney's office or in Congress. It's not just impropriety, it's even the appearance of impropriety. So I try to do things so that people can. Can check my work and make sure that there's nothing nefarious going on. And so, yeah, I was surprised by that attack ad because I was with Mayor Baraka at a debate for two and a half hours the night before it came out, and he hadn't raised any of this. And I would have liked an opportunity to sort of discuss it there before that ad. But we're in the final 21 days, so I'm sure things will get spicy. But I'm just really working hard to push out what I want to do for people and my positive agenda.
- [50:02]
Charlamagne Tha God
I saw an Emerson poll that had you in the lead, but I also saw that Same poll said 56% of all people in New Jersey in the Democratic primary are undecided. Do you believe that number?
- [50:15]
Mikie Sherrill
No, we have. We've been all running, really, a long time. I think Sean Spiller was running, like, running a campaign this past summer. Philip has been in for a long time. So, no, I don't think there's 56% of the people. And there's been a lot before I even got in and started spending. I think other candidates have spent about 40 million in the race, which means. And you spend money to communicate. So people have been communicating heavily in this race. If you guys are in New. Even if you're in Manhattan, you've probably seen the commercials. So I don't. I haven't seen polling, other polling that suggests that seems really high to me.
- [50:57]
Charlamagne Tha God
Yeah, it was Emerson or college poll. That's what the man said, too. He said he feels like the poll. What did he say? I forgot what he said. He felt like the poll was off. Basically.
- [51:04]
DJ Envy
He said it was off. Basically. I wanted to ask what makes you different than the other opponents running against you, and why should people vote for you?
- [51:12]
Mikie Sherrill
I want to be snarky because I'm the only woman messages in the medium. No, look, I really Think it is incredibly important that we have a Democratic governor in our state that not only can push back against what's going on in Washington and has federal experience to do just that. And the fact that I'm also former federal prosecutor, understanding what people like Alina Haba are doing right now and the ways that the federal government's acting to undermine rights and freedoms is really important. And the way they're acting to take away Medicaid and Department of Education funding and understanding what's going on there is really important. But I also think having an agenda to actually make change in the state, having somebody like myself who comes from a little bit of a different background than a career politician, I think that's really important right now because I like to say that there's the right way, the wrong way, and the New Jersey way. And too many people are, like, stuck in the New Jersey way. Like, even when I hear people talk about building houses or driving down utility costs, they keep talking about it in the framework of, well, this is the frame in place, and this is why it's going to be impossible, or this is why it's going to be so hard, or this is why we can't do it. And that just drives me insane, because how is there a world where we can't get permitting down less than four years to build a house? That. That does not make sense and it doesn't happen in other places, and we know we can do better. So I think having a different kind of leadership to cut through the status quo, to take on entrenched interests, which I think I have a really good capability of doing, because I'm not from, like, entrenched politics in the state. I come from a different type of place. I come from a proactive place in the military. I've got four kids. So it's not going to be enough for me to sort of make a little change around the edges, because their future is at stake, and their future feels really tenuous right now to me. So fighting for my kids, fighting for everyone's kids is incredibly important. And I think that's a different kind of approach and leadership than anyone else in the race offers.
- [53:25]
DJ Envy
Well, we appreciate you for joining us this morning.
- [53:27]
Charlamagne Tha God
Yeah, man, you gotta come back before June. Yes.
- [53:30]
Mikie Sherrill
Well, I appreciate you guys.
- [53:31]
Charlamagne Tha God
Absolutely. And if you. And if you. If you do win and become, you know, governor, like, I think that you should use platforms like this to talk directly to the people on the regular.
- [53:39]
DJ Envy
Yeah, that affects.
- [53:40]
Angela Yee
Yes.
- [53:41]
Mikie Sherrill
No, I'll be too important.
- [53:45]
Charlamagne Tha God
I believe you absolutely believe you.
- [53:48]
Mikie Sherrill
No, no, no. I will make a commitment right now. If I become governor, I will be back on your show if invited.
- [53:56]
Charlamagne Tha God
Absolutely.
- [53:56]
DJ Envy
Now, I don't know why you worry about the traffic. You were a helicopter. You might as well just fly the helicopter.
- [54:00]
Mikie Sherrill
Just fly right over. Just fly right over. Yeah. I don't know what I'm thinking, Mikey.
- [54:06]
DJ Envy
Cherelle, ladies and gentlemen, she's running for governor. Get out there and vote. It's the Breakfast Club. Good morning.
- [54:09]
Charlamagne Tha God
Yes. Wake that ass up early in the morning. The Breakfast Club.
- [54:18]
Dan Bush
What happens when we come face to face with death?
- [54:21]
Charlamagne Tha God
My truck was blown up by a 20 pound anti tank mine.
- [54:23]
Mikie Sherrill
My parachute did not deploy. I was kidnapped by a drug cartel.
- [54:28]
Dan Bush
When we stepped beyond the edge of what we know, I clinically died.
- [54:32]
Charlamagne Tha God
The heart stopped beating, which I was.
- [54:34]
DJ Envy
Dead for 11.5 minutes.
- [54:35]
Mikie Sherrill
In return, it's a miracle I was brought back.
- [54:38]
Dan Bush
Alive Again. A podcast about the strength of the human spirit. Listen to Alive again on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
- [54:47]
Mikie Sherrill
You're listening to an iHeart podcast.