INTERVIEW: Richelieu Dennis Talks Essence Festival; Online Criticism, Target Boycott, Black Businesses +More

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Breakfast Club – INTERVIEW: Richelieu Dennis Talks Essence Festival; Online Criticism, Target Boycott, Black Businesses + More

Episode Details:

• Title: INTERVIEW: Richelieu Dennis Talks Essence Festival; Online Criticism, Target Boycott, Black Businesses + More
• Host: DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, Charlamagne Tha God
• Guest: Richelieu Dennis, Executive Chairman of Sundial Group of Companies
• Release Date: July 14, 2025

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1. Introduction and Guest Background (00:37 - 02:17)

The episode kicks off with the hosts warmly welcoming Richelieu Dennis, highlighting his multifaceted role within the Sundial Group of Companies. Richelieu provides an overview of Sundial, detailing its diverse portfolio which includes media assets like Essence, Refinery29, Afropunk, and Beautycon, as well as financial ventures through Sundial Financial’s New Voices Fund, which is one of the largest investors in Black-owned businesses and people of color.

Notable Quote:

"Sundial Group of companies consist of Sundown Media Group and Media and Technology Group... We play across the economic landscape of culture." – Richelieu Dennis [01:16]

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2. Essence Festival Overview and Recent Issues (06:09 - 12:12)

Richelieu discusses the recent 31st Essence Festival, addressing the mixed responses it received. While acknowledging technical issues during performances, particularly with Lauryn Hill's late arrival, he emphasizes the complexities of organizing such a large-scale event. Richelieu takes full responsibility for the production mishaps, affirming ESSENCE's commitment to accountability and improvement.

Notable Quotes:

"We're not gonna sit here and say, hey, you know, because she's taking the heat for it. We're gonna be quiet because that's just not... That's not what we're building." – Richelieu Dennis [08:45]

"One scale, right? And when you have... there's a way of having domino effects, and they impact other things." – Richelieu Dennis [14:00]

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3. Online Criticism and Production Challenges (12:12 - 29:22)

The conversation delves into the online backlash ESSENCE faced post-festival. Hosts and Richelieu address various criticisms, from sound issues to perceived favoritism towards certain artists. Richelieu stresses the importance of learning from these mistakes, highlighting ESSENCE's dedication to refining its operations and ensuring a better experience in future festivals.

Notable Quotes:

"Our job is to train them up. It's not their fault. It's our fault." – Richelieu Dennis [11:13]

"We've given that to them for 30 years. This 31st year we didn't do as good a job as we normally do. And next year we'll do a better job than we've ever done because we've learned what the issues were." – Richelieu Dennis [08:36]

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4. Target Boycott and Its Impact on Black Businesses (31:13 - 40:18)

Richelieu addresses the ongoing boycott of Target by prominent Black activists and its ramifications on Black-owned businesses featured at ESSENCE. He explains the difficult decision to continue Target's sponsorship, citing a pre-existing four-year contract and Target's commitment to supporting Black communities through a $2 billion pledge. Richelieu underscores the unintended economic consequences of the boycott, highlighting the significant revenue loss for businesses that rely on Target as a major retailer.

Notable Quotes:

"Our value proposition is to help them build their businesses and to help them build the infrastructure that supports their business." – Richelieu Dennis [32:01]

"If they don't get these opportunities, what happens to them? I can't pay my mortgage, I can't pay you back... I'm worried about healthcare." – Richelieu Dennis [38:16]

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5. Future Plans, Resilience, and Community Focus (40:18 - 66:17)

Richelieu emphasizes ESSENCE's resilience amidst criticism and economic challenges. He discusses strategies to sustain the festival, such as seeking new sponsors, enhancing marketing efforts, and maintaining the festival's free accessibility. Richelieu reiterates the organization's long-term vision of building economic infrastructure within the Black community, ensuring continued support and growth for Black businesses.

Additionally, he touches on the importance of accountability and grace within the community, advocating for constructive responses to mistakes rather than punitive measures. This approach, Richelieu believes, fosters innovation and growth, crucial for sustaining ESSENCE's mission.

Notable Quotes:

"Our vision for this is not for next year. Our vision for this is 100 years out." – Richelieu Dennis [47:04]

"We've got to bring that back. If we run away from these things, it doesn't come back." – Richelieu Dennis [58:35]

"We owe it to ourselves to say, hey, this isn't working, and B, for us to correct it." – Richelieu Dennis [16:52]

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6. Conclusion and Final Remarks (66:17 - End)

As the interview wraps up, the hosts and Richelieu reaffirm ESSENCE's commitment to overcoming challenges and continuing to serve the Black community. They acknowledge the valuable feedback received and express confidence in ESSENCE's ability to evolve and improve future festivals.

Notable Quotes:

"So all criticisms are valid, and ESSENCE is just going to try to do better next year." – Charlamagne Tha God [66:11]

"But nobody's bigger. So our revenues don't match everybody else's revenues because they charge it." – Richelieu Dennis [65:22]

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Key Takeaways:

• ESSENCE Festival: Despite production hiccups and online criticism, ESSENCE remains committed to delivering a premium experience and learning from past mistakes to enhance future events.

• Target Boycott: The boycott's impact on Black-owned businesses is significant, with Richelieu advocating for balancing activism with economic resilience to protect and sustain these enterprises.

• Community Investment: ESSENCE, under Richelieu's leadership, focuses on building economic infrastructure within the Black community, fostering business growth, and ensuring long-term sustainability.

• Accountability and Growth: Emphasizing accountability, Richelieu promotes a culture of learning from failures, offering opportunities for growth, and maintaining grace within the community.

• Future Outlook: ESSENCE aims to navigate current challenges by seeking new partnerships, enhancing marketing strategies, and continuing to support Black businesses, with a vision spanning the next century.

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Notable Quotes Recap:

• Richelieu Dennis: "Our job is to train them up. It's not their fault. It's our fault." [11:13]

• Richelieu Dennis: "We've put on lives on the world stage... But nobody's bigger." [65:18]

• Richelieu Dennis: "If we don't have sponsors... there’s a resolution to everything." [47:40]

• Charlamagne Tha God: "All criticisms are valid, and ESSENCE is just going to try to do better next year." [66:11]

---

Final Thoughts:

This episode provides an insightful look into Richelieu Dennis's leadership and the complexities of managing a culturally significant event like the ESSENCE Festival. Balancing community needs, economic challenges, and external pressures, Richelieu underscores the importance of resilience, accountability, and unwavering support for Black businesses. The conversation offers valuable perspectives on navigating activism's economic impacts and the continual effort required to uplift and sustain the Black community through strategic investments and inclusive practices.

Transcript

[Unknown Host]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[DJ Envy]

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[Rich Dennis]

Wake that ass up early in the morning.

[DJ Envy]

The Breakfast Club. Morning everybody. It's DJ Envy. Jess. Hilarious Charlemagne the guy. We are the breakfast club. Lauren LaRosa is here as well. And we got a special guest in the building. He has so many titles. Ladies and gentlemen.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Yeah, Richard. Well, go ahead, Go ahead. I was gonna say he's the executive chairman of Sundial Group of companies.

[DJ Envy]

That's right. We have Rich Dennis here.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Yes, it is a group of companies. Tell them some of the companies, Richard.

[Rich Dennis]

Well, good morning.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Good morning.

[DJ Envy]

Good morning.

[Rich Dennis]

As I was saying earlier, feels like, you know, every couple of years.

[DJ Envy]

Talk to the mic. Talk to the mic.

[Rich Dennis]

You should know this every couple of years. No, I only do this like once every two years. Explain myself to y'.

[Jess Hilarious]

All.

[Rich Dennis]

But so Sundial Group of companies consist of Sundown Media Group and Media and Technology Group. So that's Essence, Refinery29, Afropunk, Beautycon and a few other media assets. Sundial Financial, which is New Voices Fund in which we, we invest in, in businesses. One of the largest investors in black owned businesses and people of color. So that's, that's the. And then the consumer, we have Sundial Consumer. So some of you guys know us for the brands that we've built like Shea Moisture and Heritage and Madam C.J. walker and now some of the newer brands like Lafayette and some of those things. So, so we, we, we, we play across the, the economic landscape of culture.

[Charlamagne tha God]

And also if I'm not mistaken, you said Afro Con. Did you? I mean Afro Tech.

[Rich Dennis]

Afro Punk.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Afro Punk, okay. And beautycon.

[Rich Dennis]

And Beauty.

[DJ Envy]

He said all that. You're not listening.

[Charlamagne tha God]

He said all that. Okay, I'm just making sure, man. The reason I want to stress that is because you said you got to come in here every couple of years to explain yourself. But I want people to know who you are and I want them to know how important you are to a lot, not just, you know, yourself, but to a lot of other black companies in black.

[Rich Dennis]

Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we've invested in probably at this point, well over 100 black businesses. We've focused in on. We started with a keen focus on women owned black businesses and then we spread that out to men. So we've invested in and helped build companies like Mielle, Honeypot, Square Squire, Rather not Square Squire Solo Fund. So we go across everything from consumer to deep tech with the lens of trying to solve vexing problems in the black community. Investing in businesses that solve vexing problems in the black community. We see ourselves as building the cultural infrastructure and monetization engines that allow us to keep ownership of our intellectual property as a community and to build and scale businesses that can then reinvest back in the. In the community. One of the last times I was here, now, one of the last times, with the time before, the last time I came in here and we're talking about me selling, selling Shea moisture. And I said to you guys, I'm selling this company because I am going to unlock wealth that's never been seen in our community before. I'm going to invest that wealth back in our community.

[Charlamagne tha God]

And you did it.

[Rich Dennis]

I did that.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

Six years later, seven years later, not only have we done that, we've now had four or five exits that have delivered more than a billion dollars. Wow. Back into black families in this country. So very, very proud of the journey that we're on. And. But every once in a while, you know, we don't get it 100% right. But what we do do is come back and fix it and get it 100% right. So that's.

[Charlamagne tha God]

And I do want to say it's very important. What you do and have done is so important. And even more important now, when you see all these DEI initiatives getting rolled back, when you see these fundings, when you see this funding for these black organizations and black companies getting cut, all we gonna have is us.

[Rich Dennis]

That's it.

[Charlamagne tha God]

To invest back in each other.

[Rich Dennis]

That's it. That's it. You know, and. And part of that is if you don't create wealth, we don't have us to invest back in each other.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right?

[Rich Dennis]

Then we're. We're constantly needing to have other people support us to. I mean, look, you know, we've got, we've got changes in health care coming, right? We've got changes in our abilities to, to get an education. It's going to cost. We're going to have fewer opportunities and higher costs.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

The only thing that we can control is our economic destiny.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

And so I'm fiercely protective of that because if we don't have that, we've got. We've got nothing. And to do that, we've got to build big businesses, we've got to build infrastructure to support those businesses, and we've got to train up people so that they can run those businesses.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

All things that we all know are missing from our community infrastructure today. So we've got a lot of work to do, and we're here to do the work.

[DJ Envy]

Now, of course, trending over the last couple of days was the essence festival.

[Rich Dennis]

Yep.

[DJ Envy]

31St essence festival. Some people were upset, some people were mad about timing. Some people said it wasn't as packed as it usually is. They were mad that Target was a sponsor. So I know you're here today to break some of that down. So, yeah, what, what happened? I guess Essence Festival weekend.

[Jess Hilarious]

Yeah.

[Rich Dennis]

So first of all, a lot of the criticism is warranted. A lot of it is not right. There's always an explanation for things that go wrong. And people always excited to take credit for things that go right.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

My job is to balance that all out.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

So we have an incredible team that's running Essence Festival. They have built something that, when you look at it, if you look at the scale of what it is today, that competes against the best in the world.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

Without the resources of the best in the world.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

And without the access that the best in the world has.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

So I'm extremely proud of that team. I'm also proud of the fact that they took risks that we don't normally get to take in order to build something better. And some of those risks worked out exceptionally well. Like you go into the convention center. Extraordinary, Right. We had problems in production with. With the mics. That happens. Seems. Seems to happen more in the Superdome or in domes rather. But we had problems there. Those problems will be addressed because they are easily addressable. There's reasons for why that happened at some point. We can get into that if you want to, but they. Look, we had over 40 acts over the three day weekend in the Superdome.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right?

[Rich Dennis]

Best talent in the world. And they deserve the best acoustics. They deserve the best production. And we'll give that to them. We've given that to them for 30 years. This 31st year we didn't do as good a job as we normally do. And next year we'll do a better job than we've ever done because we've learned what the issues were.

[Charlamagne tha God]

So why was Lauryn Hill so late? She said it wasn't her fault.

[Rich Dennis]

It absolutely was not her fault.

[Charlamagne tha God]

She said she thanked y' all for actually stepping up and saying it wasn't her fault.

[Rich Dennis]

Well, our job is to protect black women. We're not gonna sit here and say, hey, you know, because she's taking the heat for it. We're gonna be quiet because that's just not. That's not what we are. That's not what essence is about. That's not what we're building. There were. There were production issues with the audio video system that caused the delay in her performance. We own that.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

Those delays, you know, were primarily because we've been very aggressive in. As I said earlier, our job is to develop the infrastructure that drives black businesses.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

So we also want to make sure that we're investing in the local businesses in New Orleans.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

And so our partner, our production partner from our mandate and my team's directive, which, again, we're very proud that we're able to do this. You know, one of the things that is also satisfying but scary is that there are no more black festivals around. We're about the only independent one left.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

And so what that means is that the people that get to produce these festivals, fewer and fewer and fewer of them have the resources and the access and the ability to run these large festivals because they're not getting those opportunities.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

I said to my team a year ago is we need to go out and find the types of partners that we can develop and grow so that they have the opportunities to do these.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

So we probably should have been a little bit more thoughtful in the execution of that.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

But at the end of the day, I'm proud of the fact that they took the risk.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

Next year we will have a local, well trained, well developed partner in that area because we got the experience we had this year.

[Charlamagne tha God]

So y' all just didn't have the right production team to pull off a show, a concert of that scale, basically, for the sound.

[Rich Dennis]

Yes.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right. However.

[Rich Dennis]

Sorry, sorry, I just grabbed that.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right. However.

[Rich Dennis]

Our job is to train them up. It's not their fault.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

It's our fault.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

We have to. We have to. If we. If we're going to go that route, we have to continue to make sure that we're investing in their development and in their training. And we're going to. We're going to continue to do that. And rest assured, that will not Happen again. I'm sorry, Lauren, I was going to.

[Unknown Host]

Ask you, the production group company that you're talking about, is that separate from the Solomon Group company? Because there was articles about them working with you guys and people throwing a lot of blame on the Salomon Group people, too.

[Rich Dennis]

Yeah. You know, at the end of the day, it's not any of our partners fault. It's our fault because we engage them, we hire them, we pay them, we manage them, and it's our job to make sure that everything is delivered properly. I'm not gonna sit here and say that it's the Solomon Group's fault or is this group's fault or is that group's fault?

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[DJ Envy]

Rich, you're a nice guy.

[Rich Dennis]

At the end of the.

[DJ Envy]

If I pay you to do sound, I'm not a sound guy. The sound's supposed to be right. I'm paying you a certain amount of money. The sound's supposed to be perfect. That's what you're paying for. You don't sit there with the mics and adjust levels and stuff like you pay somebody.

[Charlamagne tha God]

What about tardiness of the artist?

[Jess Hilarious]

Yeah.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Thing I kept hearing. I kept hearing people was, you know, late.

[Unknown Host]

But Lauryn Hill said she wasn't late.

[Rich Dennis]

Though, so let me get to that. But first, let me take this, right? It's not that I'm a nice guy, is that I am trying to build something that's lasting. If I don't invest in people and I don't have the patience with them, plenty people allowed me to fail, Right. And because they allowed me to fail, I'm where I'm at today, Right? My job and the role that I see myself playing is to make sure that when somebody fails, I'm there to pick them up.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

Because that's the other thing that we don't have the luxury of as black people. We get one shot, right?

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

And then you walk away. So we're going to take the hit. It's our fault. It's our responsibility. We will deal with our internal partners. Our internal partners will step up, and if they then don't step up to the plate, then they will be gone. But it will not be because they made a mistake here. It will be because they haven't been able to learn from those mistakes.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right?

[Rich Dennis]

So that. That's. That's the answer there. I think you.

[Jess Hilarious]

You.

[Rich Dennis]

You were asking the tardiness. Tardiness?

[Charlamagne tha God]

Yeah, because, you know, I read the open letter that, you know, Stephanie Mills wrote, and you know, I love Stephanie Mills.

[Rich Dennis]

God bless her.

[Charlamagne tha God]

God loves Stephanie Mills. And what she said was, you know, she's a professional. This is an OG veteran in the game.

[Jess Hilarious]

She.

[Charlamagne tha God]

She said the challenges I encountered were multifaceted and, in my view, indicative of broader organizational shortcomings. The scheduling and time management were severely lacking, creating a chaotic and stressful environment. Backstage disorganization cascaded onto the stage, impacting the flow of the event and ultimately diminishing the quality of the performances. Then she got into the logistical issues and. Oh, she said, beyond the logistical issues, the technical difficulties, which is what we just talked about, the sound system, she said all of that was deeply problematic.

[Rich Dennis]

Yeah, well, I mean, she. She said it. There's nothing. There's nothing to argue there.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right?

[Rich Dennis]

The.

[Charlamagne tha God]

I guess the why is what I'm asking.

[Rich Dennis]

Well, I think. I think the why is one scale, right? And when you have. When you start with the technical issues, as you guys are in this business, things have a way of having domino effects, and they impact. They impact other things, right? So we're tracking all of that down. We've got, you know, folks that have been working nonstop around the clock to make sure that we not just identify these. So whether it's Ms. Mills or it's the security guard on the floor or whether whoever it is, we're talking to everybody and we're making the adjustments that we need, that we need to make. This isn't a matter of, hey, you know, we. We're oblivious to these issues. This. It's not. This isn't a matter of, hey. We don't understand that. There were challenges. We understand there were challenges. We're getting to the bottom of it, and we're correct.

[Charlamagne tha God]

I. I think I understand what you saying as far as production, because, you know, we deal with that, especially in radio a lot of times, right? You're giving people an opportunity. You're giving people a chance, but they may not have the experience. And you said you gotta train them up, but, man, when you got something that needs to hit the ground running, I can't teach you how to run. I need. You already know how to run.

[Rich Dennis]

Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, and a lot of times, too, because we don't get the opportunities. We may know how to run, but we may be rusty, right? I may not have done it in a year, a year and a half. So things slip, right? I may have. I may have new team members that haven't really run it with me before. So I've got it. I've got to figure out how to do that. So this is not. This is not. This isn't anything new to this business or to the. To the. The music or the festival business. But I think it is particularly heightened because we care about the people that we care about, and the people that we serve care deeply about what it is that we're doing.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right?

[Rich Dennis]

So this, this criticism. I don't take it as criticism to criticize, although there is some of that, right? There's some piling on. There's all that, but that's. That's part of the game. But people really care about what ESSENCE means to them, and it's a source of pride for them, right? So we have to deliver that. That's why I'm here, right? So we have to be able to deliver that. We have to deliver that excellence every day. And so, you know, 500 things may go right, and one thing may go wrong, or 2 things or 10 things may go wrong. We owe it to ourselves to say, hey, this isn't working, and B, for us to correct it.

[DJ Envy]

I do have to ask, you know, I go to ESSENCE every year, right. And I was there this year. I actually spoke on one of the stages, the Suede Lounge.

[Rich Dennis]

How dope was that?

[DJ Envy]

It was dope.

[Jess Hilarious]

Yeah.

[DJ Envy]

It was really dope. I mean, I love that, because you get to see your core of people that you don't usually necessarily get to see. Right? Everybody comes in one place, and you.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Don'T see that at the Puerto Rican Day Parade.

[DJ Envy]

I'm not Puerto Rican. I'm black.

[Jess Hilarious]

Stop that.

[DJ Envy]

But I really get a chance to see people, and not just at the convention center, not just at the concert, at restaurants, at day parties, at just being out and about.

[Jess Hilarious]

But.

[DJ Envy]

But I did notice that it wasn't as packed as it usually is. Right?

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[DJ Envy]

Some people say it was maybe because of the boycott of Target. Some people say maybe people can't afford it right now. What do you say to that? Was it Target? Was it cost?

[Rich Dennis]

Yeah. Look, I think we live in a world right now where there's so much uncertainty, right? And people are trying to figure out where this is all headed, right?

[Jess Hilarious]

They're. They're.

[Rich Dennis]

They're hurting financially or they're. Or they're unsure of what's going to happen to them financially. So they're.

[Jess Hilarious]

They're.

[Rich Dennis]

They're taking a beat on things and say, hey, how am I going to do this? There's a sort of deep sense of. Of responsibility for. To just share everything, right? And, and to be. And to be as. As loud and as. And as Vocal and as visible as. As possible. So. So things that may not be fully understood get discussed in ways and in places that sound like they actually know what they're talking about. But, so the convention center, again, phenomenal success. Here's why. Last year, there was a lot of lines, a lot of blockage of the aisles. Our elders couldn't move freely. They couldn't get from one place to another. So we made a strategic decision to increase the size by 100,000 square feet, right? What that enabled us to do was wider aisles, right? Spread the place out, tuck lines on the sides and away from the center aisle so people could move more freely, right? So when you look at that, you say, oh, there's fewer people here, right? And you couple that with an active boycott that's going on, right? And you couple that with all of the uncertainty that I just talk about. And, and then it's easy to come to that conclusion. Well, you know, we had almost 50,000 people a day go through the convention center and some days more, right? That's the first thing. So same numbers as last year, right, in the convention center. Same numbers at last year. Better organized, better plan. That's the lessons that we learned last year, right? Now we got to turn our attention to our production, the Superdome, and make sure that that's just as tight. You don't have any issues in the, in the, in the convention center. And we're engaging with that many people a day, right? I think it's something like, I don't know, like 400 panels, right? 20 something thousand minutes of content, right? Like, like, like massive stuff, right? Scale stuff. The last part about that is it's all free, right? So when you come into that experience, the other thing that I think you noticed this year, for those of you that have been, is the elevation of the experience, right? The, the, the, the. The visuals, right? The, the content, the, the, the. The quality of the presenters, right? The quality of the presentations. Extraordinary, right? I was extremely excited about the programming at Suede, right? For the first time, it wasn't an afterthought. A men's experience wasn't an afterthought. It was a real intentional experience and execution, right?

[DJ Envy]

Well, break down what Suede is for people that don't know it and worry there, because they might not know.

[Jess Hilarious]

Yeah.

[Rich Dennis]

So Suede is what is now essence's men's platform and experience that we're, that we're slowly building up. Because if you go out, then you look in, in the media landscape today, there's nothing that's really focused on, on, on black men in an elevated and aspirational way. And so Suede was actually a, a magazine that was owned by Essence, that was launched by Essence back in the.

[Jess Hilarious]

Day.

[Rich Dennis]

And was then shuttered shortly thereafter. And I looked at and I said, you know, what a cool name for men, right? And so we're gradually building that up. But I think from your experience there, you can see where we're headed with it.

[DJ Envy]

I thought it was dope. And I think a lot of women all the time always look for men at essence, right?

[Rich Dennis]

Because there's a lot of relationships, there's.

[DJ Envy]

A lot of women there and they're looking for relationships, looking. So that suede lounge was a great opportunity for men.

[Charlamagne tha God]

You was looking for men?

[DJ Envy]

I was actually on the panel, sir. I was on the panel, sir.

[Charlamagne tha God]

The best way to find a man. But I, I do want to say too, I want to stay on the, the economic point that MB bought up. I saw people complaining about the BBIP Super.

[Unknown Advertiser]

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[Charlamagne tha God]

I guess they said the super Lounge used to be a part of the standard ticket price, but then they had to charge extra for the vvip. So a lot of people was like, damn, that prices me out. So I was just one. How do you balance like financial sustainability with accessibility?

[Rich Dennis]

Well, and, but I think that's also part of a, part of what I was saying earlier about people having an idea, but not really fully having all of the information to make, to make decisions.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

So that Super Lounge experience was a free experience where the convention center had. Not the convention center, the Superdome had these spaces inside of them that ESSENCE used as a way to showcase up and coming talent, right. Give them opportunities, and went quite for the main stage. For the past three years or so, the Superdome was under construction and those spaces went away. So we haven't had that for three years. The way that we solve for that was doing Super Lounges early on the main stage.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

That didn't change.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

But what we also are dealing with is one, we should talk about the economics of it, right? We'll come back to the economics of. Of how an event like this gets pulled off and what it takes and what it requires. But what we then did was said, hey, we're trying to over deliver on the value proposition of why you come to. Why you would go to the Superdome, why you would buy a ticket.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right?

[Rich Dennis]

And what has happened is for our community, they get charged more, they receive less. We're guilty of trying to give more for the same price.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

And that has to then be accompanied by other sources of revenue in order to sustain that free convention center.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right?

[Rich Dennis]

How about.

[DJ Envy]

I didn't. I've been going for so many years. I didn't know the convention center was free. I had no idea.

[Rich Dennis]

Convention center.

[DJ Envy]

I had no idea.

[Unknown Host]

Well, you'd be working everywhere because I usually go through. When I went, I just was an attendee and I just went. And you just.

[DJ Envy]

I had no idea it was free. That's crazy. I had no clue.

[Rich Dennis]

No. Nowhere else on this planet, which is amazing, is anybody giving us that. I mean, think about who you got to see and they got to see and talk to you, right? They got to see on that same. They got to see and talk to Maxwell. They got to see and talk to.

[DJ Envy]

Let me explain it just a little bit. So the convention center, of course, it's. It's a huge convention center and they have different stages, podcasts, artists performing. And I didn't know all that was free, but all that is free, so, like, you can go there. And when I was there doing one stage, Lloyd was doing another stage, performing. So there was like 10,000 people at Lloyd's stage. There was a couple thousand people at our stage, people doing podcasts, conversations with Maxwell. And I didn't know that was free.

[Rich Dennis]

That's.

[DJ Envy]

That's.

[Charlamagne tha God]

I didn't know that. I thought y'.

[Jess Hilarious]

All.

[Charlamagne tha God]

I thought you had to buy tickets.

[DJ Envy]

Yeah, I thought so. Too, but that's, that's dope.

[Rich Dennis]

No, but in order to maintain that, that money has to come from somewhere, right? So, so we're, we're trying to find other ways that we can monetize so that we can continue to provide that experience so we don't have to charge. Because our community is going through a. I don't know if people know this, right. Unemployment rate for black women in this country right now is skyrocketing.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

Unemployment rate for black people in this country is skyrocketing.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

The opportunities that we were promised just two years ago have evaporated.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

We're going to stand by our community and we're going to build. We're going to use our business acumen to build a sustainable business that will be here 100 years from now.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

We're going to make those investments. We need our community to come along. We also, though, taking full accountability, need to make sure that our community knows that that's what we're doing.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

I think we take for granted that they know what we're doing. The fact that you guys in here have been there, I don't know how many times. You've probably been there 15 times that you didn't know that all of those experiences were free, right?

[Charlamagne tha God]

So I've only been once.

[Unknown Host]

I'm sorry, I've been once too.

[Rich Dennis]

Once.

[Charlamagne tha God]

And once actually there when it was in Houston.

[Rich Dennis]

Oh, so you went right to Katrina. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But that's. That's a million square feet that we produce in that convention center for our community, serving anywhere from 50 to 70,000 people a day.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

For three days straight. It's where we bring black businesses in the so called market so they can sell their products. And when they come to that so called market that one weekend, many of them make more money in that one weekend than they make the entire year.

[DJ Envy]

But the only other thing that I would say that I did not like is every night at that convention center. Well, at the concert when people were performing, I didn't know who was really performing till I got there. You guys had, I mean, think about it. You got Glorilla, Patti LaBelle.

[Rich Dennis]

I think we had the best lineup in the history of lineups.

[DJ Envy]

Lauryn Hill, Nas, Nas, Boyz II Men.

[Rich Dennis]

Boyz I Men, Dougie Fresh, Dougie Fresh, babyface, babyface, Patti LaBelle.

[DJ Envy]

So many times, Stephanie, it was so cool.

[Unknown Host]

So you feel like that wasn't properly promoted, but I didn't know until I got there.

[DJ Envy]

I didn't know until I got There about all those artists. And I feel like it would have been a bigger push if you'd have known, like, you got to see all those artists in a week, and you've never seen nothing like that. Old and new coming up artists. Like, it was a dope show.

[Rich Dennis]

But that's what we do every year, right? And that's the idea.

[DJ Envy]

So usually, you know, when New Edition is closing out, you know, when Mary's. Before, like, you know, it was this year. I didn't. I didn't. I didn't know Nas was there until I got there.

[Rich Dennis]

So let me. So I'll tell you, I didn't know.

[DJ Envy]

LL was there until I seen him on a plane.

[Charlamagne tha God]

So that is the truth, by the way. He's being biased. All those people are from Queens, okay? I bet y' all promoted Patti LaBelle. Them crazy. All you care about is them rappers from Queens.

[DJ Envy]

But if you ask me about it, I did not know.

[Jess Hilarious]

So.

[Rich Dennis]

So that's another learning, right? So. But I tell you, more than that, more than. Than, hey, we need to. We need to really amp it up because, you know, people need to know more than that. We need to be earlier so that people can plan. Because in this economy, in the world that we're in, right? People need to plan. And people. This is. This is some people's vacation, right? Like, some people are like, hey, I'm gonna save up my money this year so I can go. So I can go to Essence, right?

[Jess Hilarious]

Great.

[Rich Dennis]

We need to make sure that we give them enough of a window for them to plan. The other part of it is where the music and the festival, the concert part of it is an important part in the celebration. But that convention center is where the nourishment and the learning and the nurturing comes in. And so we've got to make sure that we tie those closer together so. So that people know all of what's happening and they can understand just exactly how massive it is. So we'll do a better job of marketing so that people know more and that they know earlier. So that's certainly something that we can improve on. And that feedback is very well taken.

[Charlamagne tha God]

I want to talk to you about Target. I totally get. You need Target's dollars to even do this event. You don't have to explain that. But was that a tough decision being that, you know, the Jamal Bryants, the Tameka Mallorys, the Nina Turner's have, you know, staged this boycott against Target that a lot of people are participating in?

[Rich Dennis]

Yeah. So those are always difficult decisions, right? And this wasn't a, hey, we decided to go with Target against the boycott or hey, we decided to go with the boycott against Target, right? You've got to remember what our value proposition is to this community, and that is to help them build their businesses and to help them build their, build their, build the infrastructure that supports their business.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right?

[Rich Dennis]

We build the infrastructure. They, they, they build their businesses. So it wasn't a, it wasn't a, a decision around here's, you know, here's this boycott that we want to go against or here's this retail partner that we want to support, right? It was, it was the decision, first of all, was we already had a contract right, prior to all of this, four years now. And they've been good partners, right? They've, they've done what they've told us they were going to do. And even recently, not recently at, at festival, Brian Cornell, their CEO, came on the ground. He's like, look, I want to see the people, I want to talk to the people. I want to understand. But he also shared that we haven't stopped doing the things that we had committed to. We're going to complete. We've made a $2 billion commitment that was to who?

[Charlamagne tha God]

To the black community.

[Rich Dennis]

Black community.

[Charlamagne tha God]

But isn't that the whole point of, the whole point of the protest is that because they rolled back the DEI initiatives, but they haven't, you know, done those things from what I've been told, no.

[Rich Dennis]

So what he shared was that they actually never stopped those things, right? They're, they're 2 billion dollar commitment. He said that they are going to complete that 2 billion dollar commitment at the, by the end of this year.

[Charlamagne tha God]

They just can't label it DEI because.

[Rich Dennis]

They'Re scared of Trump. I'm not going to get into the politics of it, but what I will say is that they've committed to and have exercised and from what I've been able to see, they have done what they said they would do, certainly with the businesses that are in there, that are in their retail environment, which is where I think the bulk of those dollars go anyway. But that's for, that's not for me to, that's not for me to answer.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

What I, what I can say though is that they have shown me and provided evidence that they have continued, that they've continued those programs, they've continued the HBCU program and the scholarships, they've continued their dollar commitments.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right?

[Rich Dennis]

So for our decision making was based on the economic impact or the inadvertent economic impact that we're seeing in the black businesses that. So if that convention center didn't happen, there's 200 vendors that would have lost their income for that weekend.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

Which as I said earlier for some of them is the bulk of their income. There are retail, there are brands that have been preparing all year to have a showcase to get retail distribution.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

So there's other retailers that, that come there because we also have a program through the New Voices foundation that trains up our vendors to be ready to go into retail. So that's the other thing that we do. We have almost 30,000 black businesses on our platform and women owned businesses on our platform that we're providing developmental services to every day and also at, at the festival.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

So that, that's everything from preparedness to go into retail to business planning, supply chain development, all the things that it takes to that. So we've also then as a result of that really curated the, the so called market so that when our guests come in, they're getting the best of the best and that when retail partners come in, they're able to then say, hey, they're ready to do business and go and go to the next level.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

So we don't want to deprive them of that opportunity. Greater than that is they've already made the investments.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

Some of these people have. Not some of them, many of them. Because where do we go to get funding in our community when we need to build a business today?

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Charlamagne tha God]

GoFundMe.

[Rich Dennis]

Right, right. So part of what they use this weekend for is to recoup the investments that they've made. So how do they get these investments? They're taking our second mortgages on their homes. They're drawing down on their 401ks. They're borrowing from their, their neighbors and their friends and their family. Every single person here.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right, right.

[Rich Dennis]

And if they don't get these opportunities, what happens to them?

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

So we've got to think about. So it's, it kind of, you know, it's. I'm a, I'm older than all of you guys. I grew up at a time where it was, you know, it was, it was, we had MLK to follow and learn about. And you had two sides to MLK's platform. The first one was the civil rights platform. The second one, which he didn't get to see all the way through, unfortunately. And we can all speculate as to why was the economics rights platform. That's right.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

So the boycott is focused on the civil rights platform. I'm focused on the economic rights platform. That's what I've done my entire career, right? 30 something years now, almost 40 years. This is what I've done, right. I started, I started when I was 19 years old, right? So almost 40 years. It's kind of crazy to think, right? But that's all I've done, right? All I've done is build businesses that invest back in black communities and develop new businesses that can then stand on their own. So I'm looking, I'm faced with this and I'm seeing the impact that this is not just having here, but also on shelf. So, yeah, the boycott, can we. Our voice has been heard. There is no doubt about it. Our voice has been heard. Fantastic.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right?

[Rich Dennis]

My question is, what next?

[Jess Hilarious]

Right?

[Rich Dennis]

And how do we now, how do we now protect those businesses that have been impacted? Because Target's traffic may be down, right? Their revenue may be down. But think about those. I don't know how many there has. I know that we're involved with maybe 20 businesses in that, that sell to Target at other retailers, but we're talking specifically here. Some of them, their businesses are down more than 50%. Some of them, their business, the average is around 30%.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Charlamagne tha God]

The black owned businesses that are in Target, right?

[Rich Dennis]

Because the traffic isn't there. And the, the, so the impact of that is the longer this goes on, I can't pay my mortgage, I can't pay you back the money that I borrowed you from you.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

I can't send my kids to the schools that have not put them in because I thought, hey, I've got this business that's, that's ramping up.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

I'm worried about healthcare because there's all kinds of changes coming there. There's, there's an undue amount of stress that goes on those businesses as a result of this.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right?

[Rich Dennis]

The boycott, I think, has served its purpose. I think it has been one that showed our economic might, it showed our voice, it showed that we can be, we can be united. I'm all for that.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right?

[Rich Dennis]

But what I have to think about is how I make sure that these people and these businesses that have made these investments survive through this until all of that is resolved.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Can you move on from a boycott if a demand hasn't been met, though? If you have, the whole point of boycotting is because you have demands. If Target hasn't met those demands, why should we tell people to move on.

[Rich Dennis]

On if they have not met those.

[Charlamagne tha God]

If they haven't met those demands, why should we tell the protesters to move on.

[Rich Dennis]

Yeah. So I haven't told anybody to move on.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Sounds like you're saying that just a little.

[Rich Dennis]

No, that's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that my responsibility, the place that I've lived my life is in building out that ecosystem.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

So my job is to ensure that our ecosystem survives.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

That's my job.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

And that's what I'm doing.

[Charlamagne tha God]

I guess real quick, I just want to, just from a, just from your standpoint, just essence, right? Not the black owned businesses within Target, just ESSENCE and Essence Festival. If you would have said, you know what, I'm listening to the protesters, Target, I don't want y' all to be a sponsor this year. How would that have impacted y' all business? Because I know y' all had a contract.

[Rich Dennis]

Well, we have a, we have a contract so that, that would, that would impact our business. I tell you something else, right? There's many others that have either pulled out of supporting black media and black businesses. There are many others that have cut down what they have, what their commitments had been or where they have invested before. So it's not just, this isn't just a issue that's related just to Target.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

This is an issue that, you know, we've had partners, you know, that didn't come back. Ford didn't come back.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

You used to be able to, you know, do the ride and drive and they've cut back, they didn't come back. Delta didn't come back. Right. So there's partners in it. But we still put on the same, the same show, we still put on the same event. So we're going to ride for our community.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

We knew we were going to take a loss going into this, but it's better to me that we take a loss and that, those, those, that community, that business community, the broader community of New Orleans, the broader community that comes to Essence Festival has an extraordinary experience. We did have hiccups, yes.

[DJ Envy]

Why didn't those companies come back?

[Rich Dennis]

Well, I mean, you know, some of them have, some of them have, have. Yeah, I mean, they've, they've, they've, they've, they got rid of, they got rid.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Of their black programs.

[Rich Dennis]

There's no money, there's no, there's no black quota.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

So, so, you know, but this is the new world that we live in and I think it's very important that we are, that we're moving forward. Like, we can't just, we can't just Go to sleep or we're not going to wake up and it's going to be better. We got to work through it.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

And so I think that, like I said earlier, you've got the civil rights part, the civil rights and civil justice part, and you've got the economic rights and economic justice part of it. The two have to work.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

And so I'm looking forward to us getting the two to work. But in the interim, you've got to sustain what's there, otherwise it's not recoverable.

[DJ Envy]

Do you bring it back next year? And, you know, with the difficulties that you had this year, especially with sponsors pulling out, do you bring it back and have manifesto?

[Rich Dennis]

That's not even a question.

[DJ Envy]

The reason I ask is you said you took a huge loss this year, right?

[Rich Dennis]

Yeah.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[DJ Envy]

And you don't have the sponsorship. So how do you sustain that without raising prices and making sure that people can still enjoy what they enjoy without hitting the consumer in the pocket? You know, especially since you lost a car company, you lost Delta and whoever else lost that. Those are big hits.

[Rich Dennis]

You never know. Next year they may be back.

[Jess Hilarious]

Gotcha. Right? You.

[Rich Dennis]

They may be back. And there are other brands out there who value our community, who want to engage with our community.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

There's new revenue streams to find, there's new partners to go find. It's like, we can't just give up because it's hard, because otherwise we won't be here.

[Charlamagne tha God]

You know, I agree with you. And, you know, yes, there is going to be criticism for any event, but based on what you just said, I. I wonder if people realize that, let's say next year, these companies that pulled out this year for DEI initiatives, they want. They might want to come back, but they're not going to come back to something that is getting so criticized. They're not going to come back to something that's getting so slanted on social media, that's when they'd be like, I want to stay away from that. Like, you know.

[Rich Dennis]

Yeah, you know, and the thing is, it's, look, what we did this year was an extraordinary success. It had faults and issues like everything else.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

But I can go through the stats with you. Same number of people in the convention center.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

We're dealing with what feels like a recession, especially in our community. We're dealing with, hey, you know, the conscious decision of, do I support this or not support this, because I want to support my community, but I also want to support this, this economic stance that we're taking. We're dealing with all of those things.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

I don't think we'll be dealing with that next year.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

I have, I have faith and confidence that we won't be. I can't speak for the economy, but I think the, the, the, the inner dialogue that we're having with ourselves around do I do this, Do I not do this? I don't think we'll be dealing with that next year. And yes, the criticism doesn't hurt but.

[Charlamagne tha God]

You can't dismiss the economy, Rich.

[Rich Dennis]

No, that's not, I'm not going to get.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Yeah, they.

[Unknown Host]

Target thing has been going on for a while. So if next year the, the boycott is still there. Do you guys, I don't know how long your contract is. You guys will still be in contract next year. So they'll be back next year.

[Rich Dennis]

Yeah, so, so the answer to that question is we have a, we have a responsibility to our community to deliver to them the best product that we can deliver.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

Every year we get better at delivering that product.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

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[Rich Dennis]

To your point, the criticism doesn't help at all, right? Doesn't help at all. But it's not going to deter us from doing the work that needs to be done so that we can get those partners right and we can grow and we can scale and we can do the things. Like I said, our vision for this is not for next year. Our vision for the this is 100, 100 years out. So we're building the infrastructure that allows us, that allows us to do that. We'll do the work, we'll make the, the adjustments from the, that we see from the criticisms, the one that, the ones that are, that are reasonable and that work will do that.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right?

[Rich Dennis]

So as far as, you know, what happens next year with partners, right? We have to go through the process to see what happens, right? We have to go through the process to see what other partners come through. We have to, we have to look at who, where, what's going on with the boycott, what changes are made to it, how things get resolved. So to your point, there is a resolution to everything, right? We have to come to a resolution. I think that will happen.

[Unknown Host]

How did you feel when they, they turned the conversation because of Target and Caroline, your, your CEOs involved, past involvement with Target, they turned it into a black American versus Black African conversation and that whole thing exploded of like essence is losing its focus on black Americans.

[Rich Dennis]

I mean, those are one of the, I mean, I, I'd love to hear how you guys think about that, but that's one of those ones that I struggle with understanding intellectually, right? For a host of reasons. Just from. Let's just talk about the actual facts, right? So we had 40 plus acts and performers, right? We had one Jamaican act, Buju performer. Buju, and we had one African performer, Davido, right? That to me doesn't say that we're losing our center, right? We remain extremely centered on African American culture, right? And on black women. That's our center. That doesn't mean we can't expand out from our center. All it means is we can't lose our center. So if you were on the ground, if you were there, you see that that center is very much there, right? You go into the convention center, right? You look at, you look at what happened on the stages. You look at what happened. If you were there, you know that we're still centered, right? But if you were there, you also know that we're growing and that we're broadening because everybody has to grow, broaden, otherwise you won't be around, right? There's also sort of the philosophical approaches to these, to this is I view myself as black. I've benefited from being black and I have also lost from being black. When I walk in the room where people see, if they don't know me, when I walk in a room, I walk down the street, they see a black man, right? My entire life has been dedicated to uplifting black. I focused it on, on the economics on the economic side of black. Because that's what I know how to do. That's what I'm skilled at. The thing that I've learned from that is we're much better off when we're focused on our commonalities and we're building on those commonalities. As I said earlier, I grew up King Garvey, Lumumba, right. That the thinking around, hey, we have a much better chance of developing and growing our communities when we find the commonalities and the alignments and we're working towards shared goals and shared objectives. When we don't do that, we become much smaller.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

And much more. Much more volatile and much more vulnerable.

[Charlamagne tha God]

I can't even believe you took the time to explain that. I mean, some people, me, Boojoo, Bonton, and DeVito are walking down the street, and a white supremacist see us. Guess what? He see black niggas.

[Rich Dennis]

That's it.

[Charlamagne tha God]

What are we talking about here?

[Unknown Host]

Do you feel like, though, with criticisms like that and, like, you know, just some of the stuff that you. You would feel like, we're not gonna. Cause y' all took ownership for a lot of things even before the articles hit, right? The things that you're like, this is nonsense. We're not gonna take ownership for that. Do you ever feel like it's kind of, like, unfair? Are you ever hurt by it? Cause you do so much centered in black people.

[Rich Dennis]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host]

Regardless of where they come from.

[Jess Hilarious]

Yeah.

[Rich Dennis]

I don't have the luxury of being hurt by it.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

I think the first couple of times that it happened, you know, there was. Oh, you know, I think the first time I was here and very, very similar circumstance.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

We did an ad for Shay.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

And that ad had run for months, and they cut it down for social, and the person that cut it down from social for social cut it. Where there was a. It ended. There was a white woman in the front and a white woman in the back, and then there was a very small glimpse of a black woman.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

And that wasn't intentional at all. And it wasn't the message we're trying to.

[Jess Hilarious]

To.

[Rich Dennis]

To convey. But, you know, people got hurt by it, right? And. And because we build. We build brands, and we're involved with brands that are all about our culture and all about our identity, and we ride hard for it.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right?

[Rich Dennis]

So the person that made that mistake, right. I could have walked in and fired that person.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

I chose not to because that was a person that was trying to do something and trying to create something. And that deserved an opportunity to fail. And they got that opportunity to fail. They are today running one of the most acclaimed agencies out there.

[Jess Hilarious]

There, right?

[Rich Dennis]

If we had not, if we had reacted differently, they probably wouldn't have gotten that opportunity, right? So it's our responsibility to give them an opportunity to fail. I have chosen to spend my career trying to develop businesses and economic engines in our community. I can't. If, if, if, if I were so thin skinned that, you know, every time I did something wrong or every time people perceive me to do something wrong, I walk away from what the mission was. We wouldn't be here, right? We wouldn't have these hundreds of businesses that are now on the shelves of Target or Walmart or cvs. If I had listened to the criticism when I sold Shay, I would have gone off into somewhere and hidden away and gone and done my thing there. I wouldn't have.

[Charlamagne tha God]

But then Honey Pot wouldn't have been.

[Rich Dennis]

With Honey Pot wouldn't have been here. My own wouldn't have been here. Lip Bar wouldn't been here. Solo Funds wouldn't have been here. I mean, you name it, list goes on and on and on. So, you know, I don't have that luxury, you know, And I have to take the other thing is because of, because what we're doing is so novel in our community, right? I have an accountability to say, hey, this is what's working and this is not what, this is what's not working, right? People have the right to decide whether or not they want to rock with us, right? But we're going to keep doing what we, what our intentions are. We're going to continue to share what those intentions are and we're going to continue to do the work and be accountable for what we get. Like I said earlier, when something goes wrong, when something goes right, you know, I'll be here for both.

[Charlamagne tha God]

And I'm glad that you're open to all this criticism. But the reality is it's hard to explain business to people who don't run one, especially corporate business. Especially when you are, you know, a black person running a business trying to do things specifically for black people. We are so hard on each other, man. I haven't heard ESSENCE talked about, I haven't heard ESSENCE be talked about this much in years, at least essence, in probably decades, you know what I'm saying? But now everybody's talking about it so much because we got so much negative things to say. And like you said, some criticism is.

[Rich Dennis]

Valid, some is valid, not all of it.

[Charlamagne tha God]

That's Right.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

And the levels of criticism is definitely not warranted.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

I will tell you that.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

But if we hurt Ms. Mills, Stephanie.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Mills, got to make that right.

[Rich Dennis]

That's what we're here for.

[Charlamagne tha God]

You hurt Lauryn Hill. You got to make that right.

[Rich Dennis]

Got to make that.

[Charlamagne tha God]

But those are actual valid issues. Like that letter. She has actual valid issues.

[Rich Dennis]

Valid issues.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Y' all got too much Africans. It's not a valid criticism.

[Rich Dennis]

No, child.

[Unknown Host]

They argue like crazy. But I like the way that y'.

[Jess Hilarious]

All.

[Unknown Host]

I like the way that you guys responded to things because it curved the headlines like the headlines about Lauryn Hill. Had to include festival says it's not her fault. Here's exactly what happened. A lot of festivals. Most festivals don't do that because she said that this has happened to her before.

[Rich Dennis]

But this isn't most festivals. This is essence. We're accountable to our community and to those black women that we're here to serve and protect. And when we get it wrong, we're going to say it right. Caroline, you just brought up Caroline. Caroline Wanga had nothing to do with this.

[Charlamagne tha God]

I was going to bring that up. I saw people blaming her, but I told. I was told. She's not even really.

[Rich Dennis]

She's on leave. Yeah, yeah, yeah, she's on leave. She's just. She'd go buy her book, guys. She. She just. She just dropped a phenomenal book. She's. She's been an incredible leader for. For essence, and we're grateful.

[Unknown Host]

Is she still in the CEO seat?

[Rich Dennis]

She's still in the CEO, but she's on leave.

[Unknown Host]

Got you.

[Jess Hilarious]

Yeah.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Why was it so quick? Why was people so quick to blame her when she had nothing to do with this year's festival? I mean, look, it's because she's just.

[Rich Dennis]

I don't know.

[Charlamagne tha God]

We editing.

[Rich Dennis]

We live in a world. We live in a world now where it's. It's easy to do that, right? And so people do that. And you can. You can shy away from it, right? Or you can face it head on. I choose to face it head on because I think people get an opportunity to learn from my mistakes. They learn from my team's mistakes. My team gets to learn from their mistakes. And the greatest blessing is to be in a position where you're allowed to make mistakes. That's the greatest blessing. Because if you're not allowed to make mistakes, you shrink, right? You don't try things.

[Jess Hilarious]

You're. You're. You're.

[Rich Dennis]

You're stuck in one thing. And that's the only place you can be. For our community to grow, we've got to be able to afford to make mistakes.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

We've got. And. But the other thing is, we've also got to be able. That. The thing that I'll notice that I'll say now as I've gotten on in years, is my community no longer has the grace it once had for each other.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Not at all.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

We go on these platforms and did we ever. I don't know if we ever. No, we.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Maybe I'm.

[Rich Dennis]

Yeah. In my day. Okay. Yes, there was Grace. You know, if. If something went wrong, somebody pulled you aside and said, hey, you know, this is going wrong. If your kid did something wrong, they're.

[DJ Envy]

Like, hey, it was grace. 2000s. There was grace.

[Unknown Host]

Like the community that these people have, like, it takes a tribe.

[DJ Envy]

It was Grace. Yeah, absolutely.

[Rich Dennis]

But we've got to bring. We've got to bring that back.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

It's like if we run away from these things, it doesn't come back.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

If our kids grow up and don't see, they think that this is. This is the way it should be. So where did we get some things wrong? Absolutely. But I think if you measure us against any festival that happened this year, I think we, we, we. We rise to the top.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

I don't know of one festival that happened this year that didn't have some sort of production issue.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

Ours is amplified because people care.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

Ours is amplified because our community is under a lot of pressure. Ours is amplified because we have a boycott going. Ours is amplified for a whole host of reasons. That doesn't mean that we run away from it.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

It means that we got to talk about it. Absolutely.

[Charlamagne tha God]

I think the valid criticisms. And I know you got to get out of here. I think the valid criticism are the production issues, the lateness, the cost for people. And I do think the target. The target conversation is a valid conversation to have. It's a valid criticism for people that are boycotting to bring up. But I think what you. The way you're explaining it makes sense to me.

[Jess Hilarious]

Yeah.

[Rich Dennis]

Because if, if, if we don't have sponsors. But here's. Here's the other. Here's the other bigger thing.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

Is we don't know.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

And it hasn't been shared. And we probably need. All need to do a better job of that, of the impact, as I said earlier, that it has the. The unintended consequences.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

That it's having on the dozens, if not hundreds of businesses that do business in Target.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

We don't We. We don't. We don't know that.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

So there's two sides to this. And as I said, my job is to make sure that those companies are protected. Those people. Those people are protected, and that our community continues to get the opportunities. Because the other thing that happens, and I said this on one of the other times out here, because this is something that I believe to be extremely true, is if we make people scared to do business with us, they already have a reticence to invest in us and to do business with us. If they're concerned about, hey, you know, if I do business with this person and something goes wrong between them and their community, they're going to burn the house down. They won't. They have plenty of places to put. To put their money, and they have plenty of choices as to who to put that money with. We have to. And that's it. You know, when I was growing up, I used to tell, you know, you have to be three times better than the next guy.

[Jess Hilarious]

All right?

[Rich Dennis]

In the world that we're growing up in today, we have to be five times better. It's just that. Nobody's telling us that.

[Charlamagne tha God]

But that's the point I brought up earlier when I talked about, you know, the criticism, because your people will go on social media and they might think about, okay, let's put some money there next year. But if they go on social media and see a bunch of backlash, they'd.

[DJ Envy]

Be like, no, I'm not going in.

[Rich Dennis]

Why am I doing that? I don't want my brand associated with that.

[Unknown Host]

We talked about this on my podcast, and my thing was the criticisms are valid, like Charlemagne said. I just wish that we understood how we shape what conversation and impression is. But when you say that, like, people don't want to do business with us because they say that we can burn the house down. What's the happy medium of? But at the same time, you want people who feel like they need to boycott for whatever reasons to get what they need and feel respected, too, because that's an obvious pushback, someone would say. But, like, you don't want people to run all over you either.

[Rich Dennis]

Yeah, And. And that's fair, right? There's no. I'm not arguing that. I'm just saying that there's another side to it. Two things can be true.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right?

[Rich Dennis]

So I'm not arguing that. All I'm saying is that there's a side to it that has a consequence.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

And as a community, we're going to have to figure out what the balance is because neither side is good. If I feel like I'm being disrespected here, let's. Let's. Let's dive into it and understand what that actually means. And if I feel like I'm not getting an opportunity here, let's dive into that, understand what it means. Not just jump on a platform. That. And then just spill. And I personally think a lot of this stuff is driven by bots, right? I don't even think it's.

[DJ Envy]

Well, not only that, a lot of people weren't even there. Like, the people that left those. They weren't even there. And they do those type of things. I say this and I tell me and Charlamagne talk about it all the time. The bad thing is we reward this type of behavior, right? And the way we reward it is there's likes, there's views. They get paid for the amount of views. So if I get a million views for Isshin on Essence, and I get paid $1,000 for it, know what I'm gonna do tomorrow? I'm gonna do it again.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Well, you're probably right, everybody, but let's not dismiss the people who are there.

[DJ Envy]

But there were people there. But there were people there. And he said they did have some problem. But what I want you to do, too, Rich, is instead of coming when Ish is effed up to talk about fixing it, we want you to come before and talk about what you're doing so we can get that good word out to the people.

[Charlamagne tha God]

But you're too busy doing the work.

[Rich Dennis]

I was gonna say yes. So let me tell you what I.

[Jess Hilarious]

Grew up by, right?

[Rich Dennis]

My mother would always tell us, let's do the things we're going to talk about. Let's not talk about the things we're going to do. Oh, so that's my mentality, right? If it's something. If I have something to share that, that I think like this conversation, I'm happy to share it. But other than that, I'd rather be. I'd rather be working with my team solving these problems, right? And now, you know, I'm executive Chairman. We have CEOs in different roles. You know, they're. They're doing that so I can sit here and. And talk. But the reality of it is we have to give each other more grace and we have to build more businesses, right? That's our only way out of this, right? We have to build more businesses, and we have to treat those things that allow us to build those businesses with that mindset, right? So I'll say this. Those sponsored dollars that come in go into the investments to put on the free experiences that you get and allow us to pay for the talent that we won't be able to pay for just by ticket sales.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

There's nowhere else on this planet that you can go and get what Essence Festival gives you. And that's why I believe people are so protective of it.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

And so I appreciate that, and I understand that, and we will continue to do the work to make it continuously better. But I will say this. What we put on lives on the world stage, right? It's not. It's not. There's no. Nobody's bigger.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

It's just that a lot of what we do is free.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

But nobody's bigger. So our revenues don't match everybody else's revenues because they charge it. The other thing is, when you go. When you go to Coachella or you go to any one of these other places, you're just there for the act that's on the stage. When you come to essence Community, you're there for community, Right? So I think we did a great job with community. We didn't do a great job with the production.

[Jess Hilarious]

Right.

[Rich Dennis]

But I think that just the community of the talent that was there, and we need to communicate more frequently, earlier and more frequently who's here, who's not here, what's happening. Right? So those are. Those are things that. Those are things that are fixable. And we're here to. We're here to do the work.

[Charlamagne tha God]

All criticisms are valid, and ESSENCE is just going to try to do better next year.

[Jess Hilarious]

There we go.

[Rich Dennis]

That's it.

[Charlamagne tha God]

That's it.

[Jess Hilarious]

Yeah.

[DJ Envy]

We appreciate you.

[Unknown Host]

I said, God bless you. You have a lot of patience.

[Charlamagne tha God]

No, I like what you said. I don't. You don't have the. You said luxury to be luxury of being hurt.

[Rich Dennis]

No, I don't.

[Jess Hilarious]

I don't.

[Rich Dennis]

I don't have that luxury.

[Jess Hilarious]

All right.

[DJ Envy]

Well, we appreciate you for joining us this morning.

[Charlamagne tha God]

Oh. Caroline Wang is the president and CEO. I called her editor in chief.

[Rich Dennis]

I wanted. No. Yeah. Of Essence Ventures, which is the. The Essence business. All right.

[DJ Envy]

Well, it's Rich, Dennis. It's the Breakfast Club. Good morning. Thanks for joining us.

[Rich Dennis]

Wake that ass up early in the morning.

[DJ Envy]

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[Unknown Host]

This is an iHeart podcast.