← The Breakfast Club
The Breakfast Club
INTERVIEW: R.T. Thorne & Danielle Deadwyler On Black Storytelling, Independence, '40 Acres' Film + More
00:37:15
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- [00:00]
Host
This is an iHeart podcast.
- [00:04]
Alabama A&M University Announcer
Alabama a and M University One of The fastest growing HBCUs is your launchpad to an advanced degree all online. Earn your MBA through flexible 8 week courses with live instruction from top tier faculty or take the next step with our new online PhD in social work. Preparing Change makers to lead with purpose At Alabama A and M, we don't wait for the future. We created affordable access, accessible, unstoppable. Discover your path at aamu.edu Online Alabama A&M University Start here. Go anywhere.
- [00:36]
State Farm Announcer
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DJ Envy
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- [02:19]
Danielle Deadwiler
Hold up.
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Charlamagne tha God
Every day I wake up.
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Alabama A&M University Announcer
Wake your ass up.
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Charlamagne tha God
The Breakfast Club Y' all finished or y' all done?
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DJ Envy
Y morning everybody. It's DJ Envy. Jess. Hilarious Charlemagne the Guy. We are the breakfast club. Lauren LaRosa is here as well. We got some special guests in the building.
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Charlamagne tha God
Yes Indeed.
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DJ Envy
We have Danielle Deadweiler. Welcome.
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Danielle Deadwiler
Good morning.
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DJ Envy
And we have Artie Thorne.
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RT Thorne
Welcome, brother. Thank you.
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DJ Envy
How you feeling this morning? How y' all both feeling this morning?
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Danielle Deadwiler
Beautiful. Really great. Yeah, man, we're happy to be together.
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RT Thorne
Yeah.
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Charlamagne tha God
You know, I know y' all here to talk about 40 acres, but I gotta tell you, phenomenal job until.
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DJ Envy
Oh, my goodness.
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Charlamagne tha God
Phenomenal job until. You know, I always wondered about that role because it tells one of history's most painful stories. How did you prepare emotionally for that role?
- [03:05]
Danielle Deadwiler
The way I prepare for anything. It's rigorous research. I. I just grew up in Atlanta, and so the civil rights community in Atlanta has reared me. I did volunteerism with the Southern Christian Leadership Conference as a kid, went to Cascade United Methodist Church, which Dr. Reverend Lowery, who partnered with Dr. Martin Luther King during that pivotal time. Those are people who were critical in defining my life and understanding of society and community. And so all of that kind of like that intuitive personal history as well as, you know, academic knowledge and history about that, the era went into creating that, that, that role and, And. And just staying rigorous with the relationships with Chinoya, who directed it, and, And. And the family and just. It. It's been such a palpable thing for me.
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Charlamagne tha God
Once you tap into a role like that, like playing the mother of Emmett Till, how do you get that out of you? Like, how do you just go back? You don't, right?
- [04:10]
Danielle Deadwiler
No, no. Anything that. That is visceral like that, that stays with you, it's a wound, a scar of sorts, and you walk with it. And I mean, that's. That's the beauty of it.
- [04:20]
Host
Right?
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Danielle Deadwiler
Like, I get to talk about this all the time. I get to talk the. The history of. Of the work and how it's supposed to have this residual effect, this kind of echo. And it'll be in conversation with any work that I do moving forward. So I'm curating in that capacity.
- [04:35]
DJ Envy
I wanted to go back, if you don't mind. I wanted to. What made you want to be an actress? Like, what was the thing? What did you see on television? What play did you go see? What did your mom instill? You say, this is what I want to do.
- [04:45]
Danielle Deadwiler
It's just been in my life. I've been acting and performing since I was a child. My mom made sure that myself and my siblings were always a part of arts oriented things. Atlanta, Black Atlanta, Black arts. Atlanta in the 80s is just pivotal. Right. So I started in dance and naturally segued into theater through critical cultural markers in the city. Total Dance theater. Gary Harrison Studios saw Jamandi Productions all the time. I grew up as a Kenny Leon's True Colors Theater Company young artist. So this has just been it, which it should be right for children. It should be for people in general. The arts is just a part of our lives. It came a critical moment after Academic Pursuits that, oh, I'm missing something, and I had to return. And so one of the first things that I did when I was making the Professional return was for Colored Girls, and Jasmine Guy directed it, and so it just whooshed from there.
- [05:43]
Charlamagne tha God
Oh, this is a question for both of y'.
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RT Thorne
All.
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Charlamagne tha God
Right. Because, you know, going back to the Till thing a little bit, but Also talking about 40 acres, what did Till teach you about the responsibility of storytelling?
- [05:54]
Danielle Deadwiler
I. I don't know if Teal taught me that responsibility. I think it's just always been present. Our history is integral. Our history is just a brilliant thing that's a part of everything that I do, everything that we do, and which is the way that it works in 40. She is teaching the children not just about how to survive, but how to synthesize history with culture, with agriculture, with, you know, all of the qualities of life. It's a spherical thing. Everything is connected.
- [06:34]
RT Thorne
Yeah, They're. They're roots of survival in the film. It's not just rooted in, you know, they can kick some ass. Yeah, they got military might. But the important thing is, is that it's rooted in their. Their preservation of their culture. You know what I mean? That's also surviving for them. And it's very much. That's why in the film, it's like, you see the family, they're all about their. Their culture, their. Their history. Like the book reports that she gets them to. You have to know yourself as you're surviving, as you're moving forward, because you're the only ones that are going to do that. It's, you know, the language that they have. You know what I mean? Galen, the father's passing down his language, the agricultural practices, it's all rooted in their history. And that's how this family is truly surviving in the future.
- [07:22]
Danielle Deadwiler
And yet they're truly joyful. Right. Just sitting down, telling stories while she's doing their hair or. Or the games at dinner time. Like, critical things that people talk about that they don't necessarily get anymore. Like, let's just sit down and be a family and. And play and enjoy each other. Like, those things are. Are what people are fighting for.
- [07:41]
RT Thorne
Yeah.
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Host
You know, and in a time right now where like, so many of our spaces and, like, the things that you guys are talking about, passing on, like, our stories, our history are being, like, quieted by. By certain people creating this film for you guys. How did you pick and choose what you wanted to teach us through it? Because we learned so much, but there was so much we need to know in order to be able to preserve our history at this point.
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RT Thorne
I mean, for me, yeah, for me, it. Honestly, it came very organically. It really wasn't, like, choices. It was just like, you know, my mother. You know, the echo of the relationship in the film between Haley and Manny is like. It's an echo of me and my mother. And, you know, she came to Canada as a Trinidadian immigrant. You know what I mean? And she. You know, as much as people love to think that Canada is, like, this bastion of, like, you know, racial whatever, it wasn't in the 70s, you know what I'm saying? So when she came here, it was very much like she experienced a lot of discrimination, and she was like, you have to be prepared for this world. And from the jump, my mom was like, I don't trust these institutions to teach you your history. So you're gonna do book reports while you're going to school. Why are you doing whatever. You're gonna do book reports. You're gonna learn some culture. You're gonna read. You know what I'm saying? You're gonna read parable. You're gonna. You're gonna. You know, so. So all of those things were directly from my life that I just. I gave to Haley to pass down to her children, you know what I mean? And. And just that. That understanding of who you are will preserve you as we move forward, because as they try to erase us, we are the only ones that gonna keep our stories prevalent and important to our. To our descendants, you know?
- [09:22]
DJ Envy
So now you tell a lot of stories. Canadian directors tell a lot of stories. You started with music videos. Why is the Canadian eye so good at telling those music videos which go into television, which goes to film? Why is that eye? Cause we can name a list of Canadian directors.
- [09:36]
RT Thorne
Yeah. You know, I don't know. That's. That's a real good question. Because I think. I think I took my influences from some of the greats, some Hype Williams, you know what I mean? And I know you're talking about the legacy of Director X, you know what I mean? But I think Canada has a very interesting perspective. We're very close to y', all, and our culture is heavily influenced by America. But we're very sort of diverse, and we is this. There's people from all over the world that come to Canada. And in Canada, you bring your culture and you. You keep your culture, and we celebrate people's culture. So the influences come from all over the place, and we look at the world in a way, and so, you know, we're picking and choosing different things. And so the influences come from all those places. And I think that's why that in a way, we can. We can kind of pull from everybody, you know. Yeah.
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DJ Envy
And was it difficult for people to take you serious because you came from music videos? Was that difficult?
- [10:47]
RT Thorne
That's interesting. I never really looked at it like that. I mean, honestly, it's like, you know, anything's a hustle, you know, and you pour your heart into something, and I expect challenges, you know, and I expect. I expect to be able to have to prove things to people. That's just. That's just part of when you go with your heart into something, that's just something that you have to do. So I never really looked at it like that. I didn't feel that way. And I think coming from Canada, I was just like, you know what? My voice is as equally as important as everybody else's voices, and the story that I want to tell is equally as important as that. So I'm just going to go out there and do it.
- [11:23]
Danielle Deadwiler
I think it's all just doing your thing.
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RT Thorne
Yeah, right.
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Danielle Deadwiler
Like you segued into television and this is his first feature, and so you just. I think it's just being. Stick to it. If.
- [11:32]
RT Thorne
Yeah.
- [11:32]
Danielle Deadwiler
Making it freaking happen.
- [11:33]
RT Thorne
Yeah.
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DJ Envy
And being good at it.
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Danielle Deadwiler
And being good at it, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Charlamagne tha God
Rt how do you balance creating entertainment but also having deeper messages in it?
- [11:42]
RT Thorne
I think, again, that it's just something that's organic to me, you know, coming from the history that I just talked about with my mother and stuff like that stuff is in me where I realize the importance of it because of what she instilled in us. So I want to make sure that, you know, it's reflective of that, knowing that our history and things should. They should be infused in what we do to make sure that I get a chance to tell a story. I'm going to make it count. I'm gonna make it. You know what I mean? Like, I'm not wasting it. But at the same time, I grew up on Spielberg and, you know, I'm saying Spike Lee and, and. And. And James Cameron, you know, so I'm a comic book nerd. You know what I mean? So I grew up on X Men, you know, so. And these things were entertaining. So I'm like, well, I want to do both. I want to entertain. And then I want you to. I want you to walk away. I want you to take the movie home with you. I want you to walk away thinking about it the next couple of days, you know, I want you to want to talk about it with people. You know, there's a lot of films out here. You know, people are craving that. I feel there's a wave happening right now. You know what I mean? People are craving original stuff. They're tired of seeing such and such four and five, you know what I mean? And you see the brother Ryan cooler coming with Sinners, you know, you. You see, you know, even. Even Zach Kreger with, With the weapons movie, you know, it's just like people are interested in. Give me something different.
- [13:14]
Charlamagne tha God
Very frustrating, though.
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RT Thorne
Yeah.
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Charlamagne tha God
Because that should have always been the way in Hollywood because whenever you see the things that really pop off and break through, it's really something new. I've never had seen Game of Thrones before. Yeah, right. You know what I mean? Like, I never, like it's the thing, of course, Sinners, but I've never seen those type of things. I never understood why Hollywood didn't want to be original. Like the, like, it was a time where originality seemed to be like, yeah, I don't want to take a risk on that. Yeah, I'm gonna go with what's considered safe. Another superhero movie.
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RT Thorne
It's turned into theme parks. Right. It's just like, this is for everybody. Come on the ride. You've seen it before, you know what it is, so come pay your money for it. And I don't know, it's.
- [13:51]
Danielle Deadwiler
I mean, there's something to serial. I think the serial framework is interesting to people. I just think that there isn't. That era is shifting. There is a great level of fatigue and the world is wanting something that is more rupturous, something fresh, something that is more political or deeply personal and just more queer and strange and weird. Those kinds of things are. Have always been in the. In the. In the framework. You know, it's just about those things rising to the surface for folks.
- [14:27]
Charlamagne tha God
Do you feel like you get presented like nothing but dark Rose?
- [14:30]
Danielle Deadwiler
No, not at all. Okay, so I have a slate of madness coming. Like the last three things I've done have been straight up comedy. Dark, grounded, slapsticky, kind of like I. I get the gamut and I Am curating for that. I mean, we're not. There is no one dimensionality ever, you know, And I'm interdisciplinary in all of the work that I do.
- [14:55]
Charlamagne tha God
You do that on purpose because you don't want to be like, typecast as the person that just.
- [14:58]
Danielle Deadwiler
You can't. Who? Typecasting. Who? Ain't nobody gonna type. Guess. Me. I get to. I'm creating. I am working with a team of people who know who I am at my core. I'm building from my inner world and I select accordingly, you know?
- [15:10]
Host
And you do. When you say that, you mean you're also creating projects too, that put you in different lights. Cause I know you're ep.
- [15:15]
Danielle Deadwiler
Yes, yes, yes. Developing works. I. I'm in a performance art realm. I'm in an experimental film realm. I'm. Things take time to come out, right? Like a project could develop over the course of two to five years or. Or more or whatnot. But I am intentionally circling a lot of different genres because I want us to be witnessed in all kinds of lights. Everything that I do will not be the lovable woman. Right? Everything that I do will not be the villain. However, I. Everything in that spectrum that. The full range of that is my interest.
- [15:51]
Charlamagne tha God
I've heard you referred to as a multidisciplinary artist.
- [15:55]
Danielle Deadwiler
Yeah, multi disciplinary. I mean, just multiple inter between. Moving between worlds. We all do sometimes, you know, folks, because of capitalism in a certain kind of way, laying you. But you can veer off. I mean, it's just. Don't hit no other cars in the midst of doing it. You know what I mean?
- [16:13]
DJ Envy
Now, y' all spoke about the movie a little bit, but how did y' all connect and what made you say this is what I wanted?
- [16:17]
Danielle Deadwiler
Oh, that man hit me with a letter. And I was just at a pivotal moment where I was connecting to land, particularly my farmland, my family's legacy in Athens, Georgia. And he sent that letter. If the pandemic didn't happen and the strikes didn't happen, it wouldn't happen. Not the pandemic, but if the strikes wouldn't have happened, I don't know what would have occurred. But he sent a beautiful letter just to your house?
- [16:45]
Host
Like, mailed it to your house?
- [16:46]
Danielle Deadwiler
No, not to my house. He sent it to my people.
- [16:52]
RT Thorne
I was outside the house.
- [16:55]
Danielle Deadwiler
That would have been peculiar. But he sent the letter and I read it and I read the script and. And then the work, the. The time flipped for the industry and I just. I was endeared to it. He got. What is it? The, the, the joints because no one could do films at the time.
- [17:13]
RT Thorne
Oh yeah, we got a waiver.
- [17:14]
Danielle Deadwiler
A waiver?
- [17:14]
RT Thorne
Yeah, got a waiver for SAG strike going on. So we got a waiver for that.
- [17:17]
Danielle Deadwiler
And it was just serendipitous that it happened. And we shot it up in north, north of Toronto in like.
- [17:25]
RT Thorne
That was trippy because it was, we were, we were, we were two weeks away from camera. And me, and me and her, that conversation on the phone, we finally did it two weeks away from camera. So we were moving forward with production regardless. Regardless. Because we had to be because we were the farm up, up north is a specific time when corn could grow. And that was it. So we were barreling forward and just hoping that, you know, she would jump on.
- [17:52]
DJ Envy
And so wait a minute, so if she didn't jump on, it was somebody else. So what happened to that person without saying her name? So she's in the wing waiting to go. And then you'd be like, excuse me.
- [18:00]
RT Thorne
I'm gonna let you know, we didn't have nobody.
- [18:02]
DJ Envy
Oh really?
- [18:05]
RT Thorne
I'm gonna tell you right now. You just gonna put on the wig and do it. I don't, you know, look, that's an alternate universe, you know, this is the universe that we're in right now. So I just, I just, I just, I just had, I just had this feeling, man. I just had this feeling like, you know, I, I've been following Danielle's career for a long time and I just, I just felt she was just the absolute perfect person to ground this film in like that sense of family and community and reality. And like, so I just, I was just, and I was praying every night.
- [18:42]
Charlamagne tha God
The movie starts off with, with stating that farmland is the most valuable resource due to the circumstances. How true is that in our present day condition?
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RT Thorne
I still think that's absolutely true.
- [18:54]
Danielle Deadwiler
It is, it is.
- [18:56]
RT Thorne
It's been true. Land is everything.
- [18:59]
Charlamagne tha God
Absolutely.
- [19:00]
Danielle Deadwiler
I mean, food is critical right now. The economics of it, like, who is able to pay for what, who has access to what, the freshest food or not, whether it's genetically modified or not, who knows how to actually grow food? And I mean, RT delved into this because during the pandemic, what was happening, yeah, we couldn't.
- [19:23]
RT Thorne
The grocery stores around my place, I couldn't even get fresh fruit, couldn't even get fresh vegetables. You know, it's like it was scarce and it really, at that time, my wife and I were thinking about to have this child, my little boy. And you're like, do I Actually know how to grow.
- [19:42]
Charlamagne tha God
That's right.
- [19:43]
RT Thorne
Food. If I cannot get this. If this fragile thing that we call, you know what I mean, falls apart, do I know how to actually grow things and provide? So it was how to hunt. Yeah. So I know how to survive. And so it became very real during that time. And that's very much infused into the script. That's, that's really, you know, the heart of it. It's like when, when all this stuff that they say is taking care of us, whether it is or not is a debate as well. Do we know how to take care of ourselves?
- [20:13]
DJ Envy
Did you learn?
- [20:14]
RT Thorne
Oh, yeah. Okay. Oh, yeah. And there's, and there's a lot of that in there. You know, there's the, there's the, you know, the three sisters is sort of an indigenous practice of, of growing corn and squash and, and beans together because they serve each other throughout the year. And so you'll see some of that stuff. It's not explicitly talked about, but it's. There's a garden where they're actually working, that garden, you know what I mean? So we, we. I did so much research and, and brought that into the film.
- [20:43]
Danielle Deadwiler
And Michael Gray Eyes.
- [20:44]
RT Thorne
And Michael Gray Eyes, the great Michael.
- [20:45]
Danielle Deadwiler
Gray Eyes plays Galen, plays my husband. You know, so much knowledge.
- [20:49]
RT Thorne
Yeah.
- [20:49]
Host
The film talks or is very loud about black women or black mothers fighting for their families, protecting their families to the end. And I think that's always a conversation with black women about, like how protecting and nurturing we can be. But what do you want black women to take away from this film about how to protect and take care of themselves in order to take care of the family.
- [21:07]
Danielle Deadwiler
That's so appropriate because in one of the scenes, Galen talks about her deserving reprieve and that kind of joy and release. And we've, I mean, over the slate of films that I have done, which is the assumption that, you know, I do things that are trauma driven or, you know, just black women in complete turmoil there. I think that there's a diversity of things emotionally that are happening and we deserve to explore the other emotions just as much. I don't think that it's a take your hands off and completely live in utter soft era life. That's, that's, that's. Sure one would love that. But I don't think that struggle is ever. There's never an end mark to it.
- [21:56]
DJ Envy
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- [23:07]
Alabama A&M University Announcer (Alternate)
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- [24:08]
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- [25:03]
DJ Envy
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- [25:36]
Danielle Deadwiler
All?
- [25:36]
DJ Envy
I'm DJ Envy. When I get up in the morning, the first thing I do is look in the mirror and say, you are somebody. Sorry to give yourself a little confidence now. Suddenly I'm not just washing off yesterday. I'm stepping in today with purpose. Empower to take on the day. Moisturizing suds. No parabens. No phthalates. Cruelty free. Free. Method transforms you. Turn your everyday shower into a moment to remember. And try Method body Wash. Now you.
- [26:03]
Danielle Deadwiler
Know, just like healing isn't. There's no end. There's no. There's no. There's no. This is the death. This is it. You've made it. It's continuous. And so I think there is. It is a continuous effort to. To diversify the manner in which you distribute labor. To encourage others to have a greater independence and autonomy in the way that they move through the world and just. And giving that over and still doing our work for ourselves. So love that.
- [26:37]
DJ Envy
I was gonna ask you, when numbers are concerned, right? Everybody looks at box office when it comes to movies. That doesn't necessarily say how successful a movie is, but for some people, it does. How does that affect mind frame when you're doing these type of movies?
- [26:50]
RT Thorne
I mean, I don't. I mean, I'm not in Hollywood, so I'm an independent filmmaker. You know what I mean? So that's not what defines it for me, you know, and money comes and goes. So I think about legacy and I think about telling a story that's going to stay with people. Like I said, I want to make a film that you take home. You walk with it in your head. And to me, that means the most important thing. And if it's there and. And people talk about it, you know, independent film lifeblood is word of mouth. That's how independent film has always been. So people start talking about it, they spreading it, and. And other people find it. And, you know, that's a beautiful thing when that happens. So I don't mind that. You know, like, look, you know, when on. On other projects, it may be the benchmark. And that's cool. You doing something with a studio, that's cool, sure. But with this, it's just about, does this film resonate and stay with the people and does it spread and make people think? That's the most important thing for me.
- [27:52]
Charlamagne tha God
But you're an independent filmmaker, so you still gonna need funding.
- [27:56]
RT Thorne
Fair.
- [27:57]
Charlamagne tha God
So how do you, you know, get these people to continue to fund this great work that you're doing if it's not a roi?
- [28:03]
RT Thorne
Well, I'll say this like, I think for this being my first film, the important thing is to. Is to let them know that I got a voice. And this is what I'm interested in saying. And I think people understand in the movie business, they understand, you know, this was independent, this wasn't backed by a studio, didn't have a promo budget. You know, normal studio pictures have a budget equal to their budget to promote the thing. So people understand that and they go, cool, he's got a voice. Hopefully, God willing, they want to work with me. And then. And then, you know, that other money part that'll come when the bank comes. You know what I mean? So that's.
- [28:40]
Danielle Deadwiler
And films are made at different budgetary levels.
- [28:43]
RT Thorne
Yeah.
- [28:43]
Danielle Deadwiler
And I think people can be. I just think folk can connect to film in all kinds of ways and stretch out the lifeblood of it. So Teal is having a conversation every time I go to London. They're interested. They're having a conversation about what was. Okay. So then that connects to how are the. How are they thematically connected to 40, right. And you can see stuff on certain streaming where the lifeblood of it extends and is exacerbated in a certain kind of way because it. It registers for a particular moment. Digital has just done something else for life. Right. Like when it hits a streamer, it can. It's a light in a. In a completely different fashion. And so that enables the residual nature of a thing to live in a. In a greater way. And So I think that that's critical for indie filmmaking, and I think that there will be new manners in which for folks to be connected to a thing and so that it can live extensively. In the same way that, like, we think about, you know, visual or fine art, right? Like, we should be having a conversation about works across the board. Don't let. It's not gonna fizzle out just because it's not in the theater anymore. It's not fizzling out just because, you know, the digital frame has, has closed. It's never closed. Everything's always open. So keep connecting the dots and, and, and, and just, you know, build from there.
- [30:09]
Charlamagne tha God
Do you think great work is sometimes pointless? Because I even think about, like, Till, right? Like they talk about, you know, Till got snubbed by the Oscars, and they talked about, you know, Till might have suffered from wokeness fatigue. And, you know, they were saying it was a box office at this point. They were saying all of these different things in regards to this just great body of work. Do you think that that can play a role into it too?
- [30:32]
Danielle Deadwiler
Anybody listening to that? What's the snub? We're having continuous conversation about the work, about the themes, about, you know, you, you, you dealing with it in the frame, right on the computer, on, in the theater, wherever you're watching it. And then people are connecting to it outside. They just, you know, August was just here. You know, I just talked to Ms. Deborah, who helps with the, who runs the, the Emmett Till Foundation. They're having continuous, you know, conversation about it. This is since 1955, you know, and so, you know, extending what this means to think about survival. I don't know when 40 takes place, but 40 is in the dystopic future, which feels very like now. And so just the ability to bring this end of the spectrum to this end of the spectrum, that's what's happening. You know, it's not. There's no snubbing. Snubbing isn't possible if we are creating something and we are creating the conversation around it.
- [31:36]
Host
I know when the snub happened, I don't want to get her name wrong, but the director of Till.
- [31:39]
Danielle Deadwiler
Chinoya.
- [31:40]
Host
Yeah, Chinoya. She had posted. She had posted on her Instagram. It wasn't directly response, but the timing, people took it as a response where she talked about how Hollywood treats black women horribly and they push this white male stereotype. Do you feel like that's changing, has changed since the snub? I know you don't care about the snub but has that changed in the work that you're doing, or do you think it will change?
- [32:02]
Danielle Deadwiler
I think that we have always been present, creating the significant works for ourselves. The funding may not look the same. The ubiquity of it and the marketing of it may not look the same. But there are plenty of black women and a variety of other people of color joining the fold of making the stuff that we want to see. There is no true idea of us, like, not being able to push, you know, towards the center. We are the center, period. Right. And should there be more support? Yes, but you can't. You can't hold down what's already, you know, that's real moving up, moving.
- [32:46]
Charlamagne tha God
That's dope. How do y' all see storytelling as a tool for social transformation? I feel like the arts are going to be very important to us moving forward, especially with them just taking history out of everything.
- [32:59]
RT Thorne
Always, always been, always has been. You know, it's a foundation of, like, as we. As we're talking about, of our history and inspiring the future. You know what I mean? It's, it's. It's vital, you know, and, and for people to see things and reintroduce them to ideas that maybe they don't. That's, that's. The important thing is, like, as, as. As a younger generation comes out, they don't have to fight the, the. The. The trials and tribulations. They're like, my mother had to fight. I didn't have to fight some of those things. But it's important to make sure that people understand them, because if they don't understand it, then they coming out with a certain sense of ignorance to the world and may not think that certain things are present and racism and discrimination and the isms are there. Whether you recognize them or not, they're there. So I think it's vital for, for art to keep speaking from our perspective so that it's like, oh, no, you gotta know how to handle these things for future generations. It's vital.
- [34:10]
Danielle Deadwiler
No, it's just a beautiful poetic looping. Right. I remember doing this. It wasn't technically a play. It was like a dance exhibition that was called Women Hold Up Half the Sky. Right. As a kid with Total Dance Theater, and I learned about four little girls in that piece. And then there was also this poem from Nikki Giovanni. Capitola Williams delivered that hard. And then that makes me connect to. Okay, then I'm doing till. Right? Like, these stories, these fragments jump, you know, between us, right? And. Oh, okay. Nikki Giovanni, she loved Tupac. Right. And so then Tupac raps about this and then this. You are to find the fragment and then expand upon it. I think that it's not just in the art, right? The art that whatever it is that you connected to, whether it's in hip hop or whether it's in a film, you take whatever is magnifying for you in your mind and then you are to. To. To dig deeper. You are to read more about it. You. This is the. The beauty of art. Art takes a single thing and it is to. It is to make. It's. It's supposed to enable you to loop things further into the fold. For everything is deeply connected. If we but seek it out, if we but make the effort.
- [35:29]
DJ Envy
Absolutely.
- [35:30]
Charlamagne tha God
How do you decide when a story is worth the emotional toll it takes on creators and the audience? Because art can be healing, but it can also reopen old wounds too.
- [35:40]
Danielle Deadwiler
Yeah. You mean for me.
- [35:43]
Charlamagne tha God
Yeah.
- [35:47]
Danielle Deadwiler
Where Trina at? I'm gonna. I'm gonna. I'm gonna give everything to a thing if I choose to do it. And we talk a lot about recovery. I mean, I think it's something for me now I'm on sabbatical, y'. All, man. We. Was I supposed to be here. Like, it's, It's. I'm making conscious choices even more along, you know, just along the trajectory of the career, right. Like trying to make sure that I am well and I'm okay in the midst of the things that I choose to do. That's why I did three comedy based things over the course of the last year. But the other things are really valuable because you have to refill the cup or you have nothing to give or it suffers or whatnot. But I am consciously moving things around to do stuff so that I can be okay. I also have a child. I also have a family. I need to be with them. I need to. This is not just for me. This is for a greater community and knowing how the community responds to that thing. I mean, we constantly referring back to teal, but like Chinoya talked about not wanting to traumatize or trigger in the experience of things. There are all kinds of ways to tell a story and not take people down into an experience. In a certain kind of way, you can. You can tell a story and, and, and with nuance and modification in a certain kind of way, bring them into the fold of the thing. It doesn't have to be utterly, you know, drudgery and treacherous. The way that it makes yourself or the audience feel.
- [37:36]
Charlamagne tha God
What did you. What Did Till change about you as a mother because you're already a black mother.
- [37:41]
Danielle Deadwiler
Oh.
- [37:41]
Charlamagne tha God
But, you know, the night I went to go see Till, I saw it at a premiere, and Sybrina Fulton was there tonight. So that was like, wow. You know, just watching that, what happened to, you know, mother Till? But then seeing Sabrina there, I'm like, yo, this, you know, it's still happening right now.
- [37:58]
Danielle Deadwiler
I feel like it changed. I had a different understanding of the rigor of the era of woman. To live in that kind of femininity, to live in that kind of presentation of self. That shifted for me. My motherhood is straight up. It was continuous. We have to protect our children in a certain kind of way, in the same way that Haley is in here. Like, you about to learn how to shoot this gun, and you about to learn how to beat these niggas up. That's the kind of thing that is always present. But how do you present it? How do you. I think the value is showing the diversity of your womanhood so that your children know that you are a human. That was critical in from. From teal to 40. And so you always gonna, you know, mother tiger over your kids.
- [38:50]
Charlamagne tha God
But, you know, I want to ask you, rt, I'll go back to the question about when do you decide when the story is worth the emotional toll it takes on. I think it's on you as a creator and on it.
- [38:59]
RT Thorne
Yeah, I think. I think it's. It's a. It's a gut thing, right? Like, it's. It's. It's something that you, you know, I mean, when you get into a work and you know that this. This is something important for you, you just willing to take on what that process is going to bring. And you know that any process that we dive into with our whole selves is going to. Is going to. Yes, it's going to. It's going to hurt us some days, and some days it's going to be challenging, but it's also going to make you grow at the end. And I think at the end of the day, it's like you. You look forward to that growth, truthfully. You know what I mean? I look forward to coming out the other side and learning from what the process brings me and know that I'll be. I hope that I'll be a better person from the interaction and the community that you do. When you build these things, you come upon a community and you learn your lessons. You know what I mean? Like, you learn your lessons through that process and you say, okay, Cool. Never gonna do that this way again. You know what I mean? But, like, you have since memory.
- [40:01]
Danielle Deadwiler
Yeah.
- [40:02]
RT Thorne
You know what I mean? So you just.
- [40:03]
Danielle Deadwiler
You.
- [40:03]
RT Thorne
You know those things. And so there's a beautiful thing when you come out the other side because you. You're a stronger person for it, and that makes it worthwhile, you know, that makes it go, okay, next one. I'm. I'm gonna learn some more. I'm grow a little bit better, you know what I mean? So it makes the process.
- [40:19]
Danielle Deadwiler
This is a baby. You're making a baby. You can ride with that thing for a few years, Right? Like, whether you're riding it. Like, I mean, we're talking. This is from pandemic. It's 20, 25 now. This man's been riding with this thing for that long. And so you want to make an extremely conscious decision about what you are, what you are rearing. Yeah.
- [40:40]
Charlamagne tha God
What do you. What do you hope future generations of artists, especially black creatives, take from the work that y' all are creating right now? What you want me to take from 40 in particular?
- [40:48]
RT Thorne
Mm. I just feel like, you know, I think it's all there. I think it's all there. I think it's like, you know, I want people to mine the past, make sure that they have that expression, you know, because we're the only ones that are going to tell our stories, you know, like, the whole interaction between the indigenous and black community is, like, rarely talked about across history, because history has been presented in kind of one way, from one perspective. So, you know, we wanted to pay tribute to some of those things in this film. And I just think it's important that we keep doing that, go back to our past and remind people. But then also, I'm about creating stuff for the future, and cinema, for me, has always been a beautiful art form of entertainment. You know what I mean? Of visceral thrills. Like, there's nothing I love better than being in a theater and the whole audience moving with you. You feel it. It's like a concert. Like, you feel that, you know, you people, you feel everybody tighten up when something's about to happen. You feel that release when, you know when it does, and this. There's something really beautiful about that. And I encourage, you know, future generations and other directors and storytellers to, like, embrace that feeling that you get from whatever that art form is for you. You know, whatever that art form is for you.
- [42:17]
Danielle Deadwiler
I would throw things. Three things out. Rigor is critical. I mean, we're getting this from. From the film to just in real life too, like rigor and discipline is the utmost imperative and essential for any kind of art making. Learn the craft so that you can therein move to intuition. The intuitive spirit is, is, is, is. Yeah, it's, it's pivotal. You have to have that so that it can have your stamp, your unique imprint and then love. Michael Gray Eyes taught me one of the indigenous terms for love. It's cassock teen and it's to grow into oneself. Like love isn't just this romantic notion. It's. It's about seeing something flourish. I think that's an inner thing and an outer world thing. And so to have the utmost of, of rigor and discipline and thing in the thing that you do, but move that into the intuitive spirit and your own inner world and do it with the utmost, with love.
- [43:15]
DJ Envy
Well, definitely go check out the film 40 acres. And we appreciate you guys for joining us.
- [43:20]
Charlamagne tha God
Thank you so much. Apple TV Prime Digital.
- [43:22]
RT Thorne
Apple and Apple and Amazon and everywhere, you know.
- [43:25]
DJ Envy
All right, well, Danielle Deadweiler, RT Thorne, thank you so much for joining us.
- [43:29]
Danielle Deadwiler
Thank you.
- [43:29]
RT Thorne
Appreciate y', all, man. Thank you.
- [43:31]
DJ Envy
Breakfast Club, Good morning.
- [43:32]
Danielle Deadwiler
Hold up.
- [43:33]
Charlamagne tha God
Every day I wake up.
- [43:35]
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- [43:36]
Danielle Deadwiler
The Breakfast Club.
- [43:38]
RT Thorne
Y' all done?
- [43:40]
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- [44:11]
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- [45:47]
Host
This is an iHeart podcast.