← The Breakfast Club
The Breakfast Club
INTERVIEW: Wale On 'everything is a lot.' Love, Heartbreak, Therapy, Music Business, Being Misunderstood +More
01:07:57
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- [00:00]
Host 1
This is an iHeart podcast.
- [00:05]
DJ Envy
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- [00:36]
Coca Cola Announcer
This is that classic HBCU vibe. Non stop action. The band is rocking and the crowd lit. Chance echo drum beat everybody showing that school pride. A game like this. Yeah, it calls for an ice cold Coca Cola. Ah, crisp and refreshing. That's a game changer right there.
- [00:56]
Wale
Mmm.
- [00:57]
Coca Cola Announcer
Yeah, that taste always hits the right note. Just like the band at halftime. And just like that, we're back at it. Passionate fans, school colors everywhere. And in ice cold Coca Cola. That's a winning combo. No matter the sport, no matter the yard. Everybody knows fan work is thirsty work. So grab a Coca Cola and keep that HBCU pride going.
- [01:21]
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- [01:55]
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- [02:52]
DJ Envy
Hey, Ryan Reynolds here wishing you a very happy half off holiday because right now Mint Mobile is offering you the gift of 50% off unlimited. To be clear, that's half price, not half the service. Mint is still premium unlimited wireless for a great price.
- [03:09]
Wale
So that means a half day.
- [03:12]
Josh Zeman
Yeah.
- [03:12]
DJ Envy
Give it a try@mintmobile.com Switch upfront payment.
- [03:16]
Washable Sofas Advertiser
Of $45 for three month plan equivalent to 15 per month. Required new customer offer for first three months only. Speed slowhacker 35 gigabytes of networks busy. Taxes and fees extra.
- [03:21]
Wale
See mint mobile.com Every day I wake up. Wake your ass up.
- [03:26]
Charlamagne Tha God
The Breakfast Club.
- [03:30]
DJ Envy
Morning everybody. It's DJ Envy. Just hilarious. Charlemagne the guy. We are the Breakfast Club. Laurel Rose is here and we got a special guest in the building.
- [03:38]
Charlamagne Tha God
Ladies and gentlemen, yes indeed.
- [03:39]
Wale
Wale.
- [03:40]
Charlamagne Tha God
What's up?
- [03:41]
Lauren
Good morning.
- [03:41]
Wale
What's up sir? How you feeling? I am exhausted. Went to go stage with Leon in D.C. and we drove straight here. So. Yeah.
- [03:51]
Charlamagne Tha God
What year is this for you, Wally? How long you been in the game?
- [03:53]
Wale
It's like either like 14, 13, something like that.
- [03:57]
Charlamagne Tha God
Yeah. 13, 14. What album? This? What? Seven?
- [04:00]
Wale
This, my eighth album. Eighth album. But then you got, remember the mixtapes and the MMG compilation? So it's a lot.
- [04:07]
Charlamagne Tha God
So all of that music and to have delivered your best body of work, how does that feel?
- [04:11]
Wale
I mean it's up for debate if it's my best body. I think it is, but nah, that's your best body. A lot of people's been saying that and a lot of people like to say, oh, it's top three because they don't want to jump the gun. But it's good because it's like I know the artist that I am, I know what I'm capable of. And in a weird way, this is kind of like my first album because, well, my first album dolo. Cause you gotta remember attention deficit. I was with Mark. Like I was just kinda following what I was told. Then the MMG stuff, I was really on my own, but it was under. It was in a group, so it was kinda like, you know what I'm saying? So this is it feel like my first one, you know what I'm saying? It feels like an introduction to a lot of people. Like if you listen to Belly, it feels like, oh, like if somebody was like, yo, where Wale from? What he about your belly? And you'd be like, oh, you know what I'm saying? So I'm having a lot of moments where a new listener could come in.
- [05:11]
Charlamagne Tha God
And I hate to say it, whoever, whoever the woman is that broke your heart. Thank you, man. Oh my God, Thank you.
- [05:22]
Wale
So what make you think that a woman. What? What make you think a woman broke my heart?
- [05:26]
Host 1
Me.
- [05:27]
Wale
We can. Weaklessness. That's down.
- [05:29]
Charlamagne Tha God
Listening to the album, like, you know, conundrums.
- [05:31]
Wale
But you gotta tell me what make you. Like, what?
- [05:35]
Lauren
Well, for me it always feel like when you get to a certain point in a relationship where you feel like you falling too hard, you like fall back a little bit. Even before this album, you know what I mean? Like what?
- [05:48]
Wale
That's a fair assessment. That's like through the music. That's a fair assessment.
- [05:52]
Charlamagne Tha God
Yeah, I feel that off the first song conundrum and throughout the whole album. It's like you want to be in a relationship. Like your mother is even stressing like, yo wale, when you gonna get married?
- [06:04]
Wale
I think it just, it feels good to be loved. Like, it really do. Like when you really trying to like boss up and do your thing and like boss up, it really do feel good to be loved. But then sometimes it's a matter of like, how can you mesh with somebody with this like, lifestyle, but just like, oh, you gotta get up and go and stuff like that. Like, you know what I'm saying? And conundrum. I mean that ain't nothing but like me having a self realization of like, damn. Like, I really, it take a lot for me to like, to reheat this hot. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, I accept whatever this is with some and some bread quick. But do you love me? Not for real. Do you love me? Damn. Well, this is quite a good. Because I don't like, I don't love you. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, is these awkward situations because it's like I'm not, like, I'm not a sloppy dude. Like, I don't be moving around, you know what I'm saying? Like if I'm messing with somebody, like, it's. You know what I'm saying? But I also can realize, like within the past like five years, like one of my exes told me that I'm just like, you're so cold. What's wrong with like, why are you so cold? I'm like, I really couldn't put my finger on that. I really don't know. Like, but again, over time I realized like, yo, when you and your art, it's sometimes hard to see anything but that. You know what I'm saying? And you gonna lose. You gonna lose people in your life. Cause they don't understand. I know. You know, like, bruh, tv, film, all that. Like, it's hard to, like, when you lock in, you know, it's hard to, like, have that. You know what I'm saying? Like, even if your partner giving you space or whatever, whatever. Like, you know, it's like, bruh, when you locked in, you locked into the thing. Like, when I'm working on the film stuff I'm working on, and I'm like, really in that flow state for, like. Which could last for like three weeks, four weeks. I'm not really. I'm not in that. You know what I'm saying?
- [08:01]
Lauren
You can't be mentally present in the.
- [08:03]
DJ Envy
Relationship because you've been up here nine times. This is the same sentiment you have every time. Talking about a same young lady that you would not.
- [08:12]
Wale
You work too much. It's not the same. I'm not saying it's the same, but.
- [08:15]
DJ Envy
It'S the same sentiment with every relationship.
- [08:18]
Wale
And these are the problems. The. These are the problems.
- [08:19]
Host 1
And watching us, though, it felt like you found a person because she's just as famous that you could balance it with, and you was into it, but then you.
- [08:27]
Wale
It can happen. No, but watching us is his own part. Like, it ain't. It ain't in on a sad note. We in Vegas, we in. We in Paris. It ain't in on a bad note. So I think this is more optimistic, my outlook on it. The whole, like, this is more optimistic on this project. Cause I'm a little bit more optimistic in the idea of it.
- [08:54]
Lauren
Okay, so the name of the album is Everything is a Lot.
- [08:56]
Wale
Yeah.
- [08:57]
Lauren
Does that describe where you are mentally?
- [09:00]
Wale
You see that shook one book right there? Like, I remember, like, reading it on tour and like, bruh, like, the levity of, like, everything is just crazy right now. And it's like the way we desensitize for everything is nuts. Like, five years ago, we would not even. We would never say, like, oh, we gonna have a pandemic, and we're gonna have Trump gonna be back. He's gonna be National Guard. Like, I just left these years. There's National Guard, like, in front of places I grew up at. You know, that's one, and then two is like, you know, I'm this weird anomaly in the industry, whereas I'm from this place that I'm the Only person really in the black spaces in the industry. And it's like, I'm dolo for real, like, navigating through it. And everybody know by now, like, I'm not cliquey. I don't really mingle. I be in and out the spot. I'm a blur. So it's like, you know, everything is a lot, like, this is who I am. This is the good, the bad, the imperfect. While we all literally, like, trying to figure it out. It don't matter what your tax bracket is. We all literally trying to figure it out because especially the black people, we don't know what's going to happen for real. And we know, like, certain people playing in our face. So it's like the levity of how much all of that is and still, like, trying. Me personally trying to navigate through life, like relationships. What do I want move. I would love to move back to D.C. but it's too heavy. It's too much. Yeah, I can't go. I can't even go get my mom from groceries because it's like. You know what I'm saying? So it's just the levity of all of it. It's just a. It's a lot.
- [10:52]
Charlamagne Tha God
What song on this album felt the hardest for you to record emotionally?
- [10:55]
Wale
Probably survive. Cause, like, I never talk about it, like, but there was definitely, like, a. Like, a rewiring of my brain, like, right after ambition, you know. My cousin died the day after his first born was born. Sorry. And I was trying to. I was really trying to weave a lot of that, like, you know, like, make sense of it. Cause it just seemed so, like. So I really was going through it think still to this day, but I never mentioned it on record. And then my. My little man Racks, you know, that's my man Squirrel. Oh, Squirrel not here. Squirrel outside. But yeah, that's eight times. That's his uncle. But, you know, like, I spent a lot of time with Racks. Like, I've really liked, you know, I mean, like, how old was racks? Like, 17, right? 16. And, you know, I had him on my hip. And no, I'm actually learning from him. He learning from me. I had him. Like, the last thing you hear on Forlorn 2 is his voice. He be like, for the city, though. And I remember the song's called Beverly Boulevard. And I remember just riding around Beverly Boulevard. This is a young. This is a nigga from the trenches, like, super duper. You know what I'm saying? Young. And he's just, like, looking how like. And I'm just like, you know, when you bring people around, they don't be around, like, people you might have grown up with. You bring them to, like, the nice hotels or whatever, and it kind of gives you. It gets you back excited because we probably used to it. And it's not like that. I was feeling all them feelings, like, so we had a great connection, and then, you know, we got killed, like, a couple months after, you know, and it's just like. And that's not. Not. That's not the first time that happened. But it's like, I don't be talking about that in interviews. I don't talk about it in songs. Because it's just like that joint. It be too crazy. Like, you know what I'm saying? So I address it and survive. I address it and survive. And it's like, I'm just giving the people, like, bruh, this is why you might see me. And I'm not like, the most jovial, you know what I'm saying? It's like, that's nonstop. I lost, like, so many people. And then even, like, Nip, like, Bruh, like, he's an artist to most people, but that's somebody we talk and text. It ain't no. There's no norm, nothing. Nobody can convince me that it's normal to be, like, coming home one day and looking at the dude you was texting just yesterday and got songs with dying on Instagram.
- [13:26]
Charlamagne Tha God
Word is more.
- [13:27]
Wale
Nobody. There's nobody. Like, it's so. But we, the fans, desensitized. Cause it's all chaos and whatever. But, like, you know, I read Texas, like, our texts. You know what I'm saying? Like, I remember this is what really sparked that song. There was a media person that we was both in a bad place with, and we was texting, and he was like, yo, they don't know what it's like to pay for caskets and grieving mothers that you don't even know, but you a pillar to the general. They don't know. People don't know. They think it's just like, oh, yeah, Lotus fly. Nah, man, I got a lot to carry from where I'm from. Because they look to me for a lot of that, and I try to be a hope film. So, like, you seeing your man's die, literally on. On the joints, you seeing, like, I got, like. I got, like, 15 records with ghosts. You know what I'm saying? That ain't no. That ain't like that. Do something to your brain.
- [14:24]
Lauren
Yeah.
- [14:24]
Wale
And then when you really Know, like, what happened what, Like. And then put you in a position of, like. You know what I'm saying? So survive was like, I had to take it there for the. That's the first time in my career I really talked about that other side of what I got to deal with.
- [14:39]
Lauren
And what about Blanco? Blanco was a little deep, too.
- [14:43]
Wale
I don't think people crack the code on Blanco. But that's another thing I learned on this. This media run is like, oh, like, y' all listen to music different now. Like, I go to these play, I did 92Q, and I forgot what song we saw. We saw. I think it might have even been Blanco. And, like, they was like, yeah, it's about just drinking. No, this is about, like, really avoidant personality disorder. This is about knowing you gotta do this, but you struggle with it. I think I'm saying, you gotta go in this room and da, da, da, da. Like, I ain't never. I can be in any room. I can handle it. But it's also like, what I gotta do to get me there. To get me there. Because it's like, like, you always performing. You always performing. Because if you're not happy enough, I'm sure everybody been. Cause we all on TV and radio. Like, are you okay? You're not happy? Why you not happy? Like, oh, I'm supposed to. I'm supposed to be the entertainment all the time. You know what I'm saying?
- [15:54]
DJ Envy
Like, well, that's what they assume.
- [15:55]
Wale
They assume, and that's draining, like, you know what I'm saying? We've been doing this a minute. They gonna be like, we a dickhead sometimes. But it's like, no, no. I'm just actually just decompressing, and I'm here. So in these Hollywood spaces, if I'm not like that, they gonna say, I'm whatever the narrative is. So let me get a little bit lit so I can kind of get through it. It's kind of like that. And then also, like, the being alone. Like, I spent so much time by myself making this album. Like, that's what it is. Like, I had to take myself to these places.
- [16:32]
Charlamagne Tha God
You know what's crazy, though?
- [16:33]
DJ Envy
You still love it, though. Do you still?
- [16:34]
Wale
Yeah, I love it. I don't. I almost wonder if the juice is worth the squeeze, though, lately, you know what I'm saying?
- [16:42]
DJ Envy
To break that down. So you love the music, but you don't love the.
- [16:44]
Wale
Like, it's just like. It gets a little frustrating sometimes when I just know that certain people at the level that we at. They don't gotta do nothing, and I gotta do my work all the time. And it's cool. Like, sometimes it's actually fun to see y'.
- [17:02]
DJ Envy
All.
- [17:02]
Wale
Cause I ain't seen y' all in a minute. So I do feel, like, kick it, like, you know what I'm saying? Sometimes it spark ideas with me. But, like, man, media is different now. Yeah, they might backdoor you in the interview and clickbait you and make you look crazy. Like, I be wondering if the juice is worth the squeeze. Because I like rapping. I'm like, man, I got money. I got. I'm cool. I could just make songs and just send. Text. Text them out. Like, so, you know, I still love the art. I love writing. I love making music. But, like, everything that I gotta do to even get my music heard is a little frustrating because I've been doing, like, I've been consistent for so long. And most people, when they consistent for this long, it ain't no question.
- [17:46]
DJ Envy
I seen you on the press run, and I seen how you.
- [17:49]
Charlamagne Tha God
Water. Get some water.
- [17:51]
DJ Envy
Can we get some water for him? I seen you on a press run, and I see how you feels. Like, a lot of times you're like, yo, I'm over this. But then when I. You know, I seen you at Hampton Homecoming. Lauren was with me, actually. And I just seen you. Your reaction when the crowd and your performing, it's a different feeling. It's a different look.
- [18:06]
Wale
And that's when you have the music versus music business. The Hampton joint was really just. Just like, damn. Oh, Andy. What's up? But even now, like, you ain't. Like, it ain't that. Because it's like, yo, okay, another Monday.
- [18:19]
Charlamagne Tha God
It's business.
- [18:20]
Wale
None of y'. All. Y. Y, Y. Ain't nobody but Tupac and Michael Jackson could walk in his door to impress nobody in here.
- [18:31]
Charlamagne Tha God
That ain't true.
- [18:32]
Wale
Like, y'.
- [18:33]
Charlamagne Tha God
All.
- [18:37]
Wale
No, I just said, impressed. Y' all not impressed. Like, y' all told you that this is probably the best album. What I'm saying is. What I'm saying is the. Like, nobody gonna come in here and y' all be like, wow. That's what I'm saying. Like, not like. Like, I ain't do my. My big one. Like, but like. Like, y', all, this is work. You know what I'm saying? Y' all not letting me land.
- [19:04]
Lauren
Okay.
- [19:05]
Wale
The Hampton Jones was, like, more, like, real. Like, yo, like, this is black love. This is, like. This is music. This is more of a music business setting right now. That's all I'm saying.
- [19:16]
Lauren
Yo, I ain't never. These niggas know you. I never met you before. I wanted to meet you. You right from down the street from where I'm from. I grew up listening to you. Not to call you old, you know?
- [19:24]
Charlamagne Tha God
Cause you ain't that old.
- [19:25]
Wale
But you drive like. You drive, like, gave me a hard time on your ascension, during your ascension but.
- [19:36]
Lauren
List.
- [19:41]
Wale
No, it's a blur. It's a blur. It's a blur. I don't. I don't really remember. No, but.
- [19:47]
Host 1
Right.
- [19:47]
Wale
But. But I'm just saying, like, again, like, you was doing what you like.
- [19:53]
Lauren
But I. I did reach out to you when I seen him in the movie Mark Wahlberg, I'm like, yo.
- [20:01]
Wale
Jake Gyllenhaal.
- [20:02]
Lauren
Yeah, I'm sorry. Yeah, Jake Gyllenhaal.
- [20:05]
Wale
Racist now.
- [20:06]
Lauren
They don't all look the same.
- [20:08]
Charlamagne Tha God
Y.
- [20:08]
Lauren
But, nah, I fuck with you.
- [20:10]
Wale
But my thing is that I don't even harbor none of that. No, I just had to say that. Cause, like, the Virgo on me, that show, like, say it.
- [20:16]
Charlamagne Tha God
But what was the joke, though?
- [20:17]
Wale
I don't even remember. That's what I'm saying.
- [20:19]
Charlamagne Tha God
She confused you with.
- [20:21]
Lauren
Hell, no.
- [20:21]
Wale
I could never do that.
- [20:23]
iHeart Advertising Announcer
I could never do that.
- [20:25]
Wale
Well, it don't matter no more. Like, it never. Like, I don't. I don't even. I just had to say it. Cause I never met you before.
- [20:31]
Lauren
All right, cool. But I love you.
- [20:32]
Wale
I thank you.
- [20:33]
Lauren
I appreciate it. And at the same time, I still talk about everybody. It's just, you know, just funny shit.
- [20:37]
Wale
The game is the game at this point. You know what I'm saying? Like, I've. That's one thing I've definitely learned, like, post Covid, like, the game is the game.
- [20:45]
Charlamagne Tha God
Do you remember the joke?
- [20:46]
Wale
No.
- [20:46]
Lauren
I.
- [20:48]
Wale
Try to pull it up.
- [20:51]
Charlamagne Tha God
I do want to go back to something just said, though, about the Blanco record, though, because you said, you know, trying to ease my mind. Trying to free. You know, trying to ease my mind. Trying to free my mind. Got a threesome with these demons and I need some time. Right? And I always think about, you know, when. When they have artists, the writer will be alcohol or anything else. Do you think that people should maybe say, hey, let's try something else?
- [21:10]
Wale
Maybe have a. I mean, I can't speak for everybody else. I can't think. Well, I definitely. I always say that I think somebody. Record deals should come with like, a third, like, access to a therapist. Like, we make labels a lot of money, you know, and A lot of these kids is coming from super traumatic. They don't even know how much trauma they have in them. And just navigating through this industry, like, you gonna need it. Because, like, bro, look how many talented artists we lose young. Cause they just getting thrust into this. So, you know, I definitely think that's. We need to have some type of mental health, like, union with rappers or musicians. And it should be free, too.
- [21:51]
DJ Envy
They gotta be willing to do it, though.
- [21:53]
Wale
Duke Ellington, that's Chappelle, that's where he went to high school. And Johnny Gill, like, it's an art School in D.C. and it's like, now Taraji did something. She has a wellness thing that she doing in the dmv. And they literally got a entertainment psychologist in the school. And I'm like, I think that's so fascinating. Cause it's like, I always wonder what. If I had some type of. Some of this knowledge before, I probably would have carried him when I was in high school early on.
- [22:26]
DJ Envy
You wouldn't have went.
- [22:27]
Wale
Cause I don't think. No, but, no, it's in school, so it's like, you gotta take that joint. Like, you gotta take math. Emotional.
- [22:33]
Charlamagne Tha God
Emotional learning.
- [22:34]
Wale
And he told me. And like, I was just, you know, I was doing the principal for the day thing, and I was just sitting in and he was talking about stuff. He was like, yeah, you know, a lot of times when you perform, you performing three times, you're like, you're performing for yourself. You're performing on stage. And then you're also performing for the people that need you to be a certain way when the show is over, like, it don't stop. And he's like, that can cause a lot of pressure, you know what I'm saying? So once I heard that, me just sitting in the class, I'm like, this is a very, very interesting, like, thing that's necessary. And then I'm talking to some of the kids, and I'm like, what makes y' all nervous? What makes y'? All? And all of it was. And he's just like, but they, like, Gen Alpha, right? In high school right now, is that still Gen Z or is Alpha?
- [23:22]
Host 1
I don't know.
- [23:22]
Wale
I don't even know. They was. I'm trying to learn how they operate, you know? And they, like. A lot of it is the pressure of school, you know what I'm saying? The pressure of, like, playing their instrument or doing their, like, because it's an art school. The pressure of getting into college, you know what I'm saying? So it's just interesting to just see how that joint, how much like people be thinking that. Well, some people use mental health as like a hook to get something, but like when. That's why, you know, Charlamagne always been an inspiration to me because like, he, it's he. I feel like kind of Trojan horse, the whole, like mental health, like, you know what I'm saying? And I applied it to like music and why I'm feeling, like, how I'm feeling and why I came in the game as an extrovert. But now it's like I'd rather be by myself, you know what I'm saying?
- [24:12]
Coca Cola Announcer
These are what a matchup we got, y'.
- [24:15]
Wale
All.
- [24:15]
Coca Cola Announcer
This is that classic HBCU vibe. Non stop action. The band is rocking and the crowd lit chant. Echo drum beat, everybody showing that school pride. A game like this, yeah, it calls for an ice cold Coca Cola. Ah, crisp and refreshing. That's a game changer right there.
- [24:36]
Wale
Mmm.
- [24:36]
Coca Cola Announcer
Yeah, that taste always hits the right note. Just like the band at halftime. And just like that, we're back at it. Passionate fans, school colors everywhere. And in ice cold Coca Cola, that's a winning combo. No matter the sport, no matter the yard. Everybody knows fan work is thirsty work. So grab a Coca Cola and keep that HBCU pride going.
- [25:00]
Primal Life Organics Advertiser
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- [28:02]
Wale
Things that I really couldn't figure out. So I just feel like it's a good thing that, like, if we had a little bit, they don't have to go, but it should be readily available because, like, they need somebody to call, man. Like, you can't call your friends from your neighborhood no more because they kind of look at you as a. Even if they love you, they look at you different.
- [28:21]
DJ Envy
Do you have somebody to call or do you speak to a therapist or queen?
- [28:24]
Wale
Like, bruh, I saw one of the first bills I got from this one. I'm like, I said, you have.
- [28:29]
DJ Envy
So it's good.
- [28:30]
Wale
And then he wasn't even available. I'm like, dog, you just made me cry on this couch, bro. Like, where you go?
- [28:34]
Lauren
He left me.
- [28:35]
Wale
You know what I'm saying? You wanted what, Barbara Streisand or something like you moving around. So it do be. That's one thing that I will say, like, when it come to that therapy world, I think it's a little bit even more difficult when you're somebody that be on TV or that's well known. You know what I'm saying? Cause, you know, it's a look that everybody give you like that, you know. Oh, it's getting into fan territory. So you don't want.
- [28:58]
DJ Envy
You feel comfortable talking. Cause that would be difficult, feeling comfortable as a celebrity to talk to somebody and knowing that he's gonna keep your moments to himself.
- [29:07]
Wale
That's the thing I'm still trying to find. I'm still trying to find it. Sometimes I think it needs to be the exact opposite. Like, a white woman or, like, doesn't know you or doesn't.
- [29:16]
Lauren
Yeah.
- [29:17]
Wale
Because then it's just logically putting things together. Or then sometimes I need. Maybe it's a black man. So he understands the plight. Yeah. So it's just dip. It's like a thing that I'm, like, trying to figure out still.
- [29:28]
Charlamagne Tha God
You gotta put together a team. Like, you can't. You can't just have one. That's something I learned. You can't just have one.
- [29:33]
Wale
I learned that in the acting world, like, you have to have different coaches, like, like, to get your best. So I get what you mean, like, different, like, just to. To. To, like, to get everything in one place. I take that, man. You know what I'm saying? I'll be confusing.
- [29:48]
DJ Envy
I gotta talk to you, and then I gotta explain to her what I just told you.
- [29:52]
Wale
I think the worst part about the therapy process is. Damn, y' all ain't do me like Fat Joe. Y' all let me talk.
- [29:57]
iHeart Advertising Announcer
Damn.
- [29:58]
Wale
Stabbing you. Nah, for real. Let me talk. But, like, I think the most intense part of therapy is, like, finding one and then like, that. Cause at first, like, you gotta do that session where you unpack so much and it bring you to a craze. Like, it'll bring you, like, down. And it's like, I can't do this again. This one didn't work. I can't do this again. Like, you know, this one was too expensive. I can't do this again. So that probably runs more people off than anything else.
- [30:29]
Host 1
I think on power and problems, you said you feel like therapy is extortion.
- [30:33]
Wale
Yeah, that therapy talks. The therapy talks Feel like backdoor extortion. You thinking you all heal, but you really. You've gone. Healed. You back on it now, man. Go back on that block list. You back on that blacklist. You back on that block list. Because me, I can be y' all can be anything. Me, I gotta be cautious, right? And I'm on this. I'd rather be single than double cross because that's. That's what it is. Like, my power is being able to be alone, right? But my problem is being alone. The last three months of the album, I was in. I was in. In my little penthouse, pacing all types of Mr. Chow's bags that were all around. Like, I'm just. I'm just. I'm all the way in it. Just trying to get everything out of my body, everything out my mind and my heart just going for it, like, you know what I'm saying? And that. That lonely. That lonely thing is a real thing, bro. Like, everybody want to fake kicking with me outside, but, like, like, bruh, like, the real thing, when it all boils down to it, like, who's around? My family. All my family in dc. I'm in la. I'm like, where you gonna find real. I always talked to Black, thought about this. I'm like, yo, like, comedians, actors, to some extent, they hate on each other too. But, like, comedians, actors, athletes, there's always community. Hip hop don't got no community. Everybody for theyself. Everybody with no is no community. You know what I'm saying?
- [31:56]
DJ Envy
Like, but you didn't have community with. When you was with mmg.
- [32:00]
Wale
That's. That's. I don't. I wouldn't consider that community. That's a crew. Just like you had your friends or whatever. Like, some. You can't. Y' all might not have the same interests, you know what I'm saying? Like, so community comes when y' all have the same interest. Y' all have the same like. Like somewhat idiosyncrasies and like, you got the same thing. Like, y' all all the kind of guy that, like, oh, we all play the trombone, or we all. We all. We all do comedy. In comedy, you'll see like, five. You see Donnell with Dave. You see forever comedians helping them, like, craft the thing. I'm saying, it's not really like that in hip hop.
- [32:37]
Charlamagne Tha God
Like, but they all came up together, though. Like, I always wonder, like, even when I look at y' all from the old double XL freshman cover list, like, you know, even those people, y' all didn't build something there.
- [32:48]
Wale
Nah, damn.
- [32:49]
DJ Envy
But you don't really talk to people like that, Wiley.
- [32:51]
Charlamagne Tha God
Like, you.
- [32:51]
Wale
I didn't. Nah, we talking about. I came in extrovert. I was ready to talk to everybody, but I got a philosophy or, like a conspiracy that I think I Think like around, around anywhere from six to like nine years. By that bubble, something traumatic happens to every single person in this industry. Entertainment. That changes you one way or another. It might make you more optimistic, you know what I'm saying?
- [33:19]
DJ Envy
What was that for you? You remember what it was?
- [33:21]
Wale
Yeah. What was it? Maybe around the time Shine drop, I just had my daughter and I was at her naming ceremony and I found out I got backdoored like, like $3 million at my child's name and ceremony. So I remember storming out on the phone. Cause I signed something that was supposed to be something. Scooter Braun management. And then it ended up doing like a breach for something, like a loophole. And I realized that the lawyer was in on it. Like it was a whole thing. And that changed me.
- [34:04]
Charlamagne Tha God
Who was you signed to? Like, what manager?
- [34:06]
Wale
It was just a man. I don't even know if I'm allowed to. You know what I'm saying? Because it was a lot.
- [34:10]
DJ Envy
How much did you not trust people?
- [34:12]
Wale
Yeah.
- [34:12]
Lauren
And you got the news while you were attending your baby girls.
- [34:15]
Wale
And I remember I was on literally when Zyla was born. Like, I'm literally like in the hospital. Like, like I was remembering my baby mother. I was like grabbing her arms, push like. You know what I'm saying? Oh, wow. And I'm literally looking at my phone and I'm like on Shade Room for not being able to attend this Barclays show.
- [34:37]
Charlamagne Tha God
Why was you on your phone during the label? Wale?
- [34:39]
Wale
In and out, man. There's some things you don't want to see. But I was horrible. I was locked in. I was locked in. But I mean, like, like, it's just like, oh, Wale, he doesn't attend his Barclays show when it really is, you know, it was an act of God clause on my contract that say cause we was due. And like, just like that. Like how ruthless it was. Like, I'm bringing life into this world and like seeing what that. That changed me when Lotus Flower Bomb dropped. You know, I'm grateful for all the success. But like, you know, I submitted the song and when I heard it on Iheart every hour and hour. Stimulus package, right. My voice was pitched up. They made a couple changes and I'm like, that changed me.
- [35:32]
Charlamagne Tha God
But it was a hit.
- [35:33]
Wale
No, but it changed me because like, how could you work on this song? Imagine you tapping a conversation and somebody and it's like going to the world and like you hear it on the radio. It's like, why do I sound like you don't Yep.
- [35:45]
Lauren
It didn't sound like what it was when you finished.
- [35:46]
Wale
And it just made me again to trust things and whatever, you know. You know, I mentioned it on Joe's show, like, just even being like, yo, you about to get this award. And like, you get up and then, you know, like, embarrassment and all of that. Like, a lot of things changed me. Like, complex, leaking the phone, the conversation we had, even though I was lunching a little bit. But, like, what company does that? Like, we've all called a company and cursed them out. They don't post it. Like, things like that. Like, kind of like, you know, I.
- [36:14]
DJ Envy
Feel like everybody was against you.
- [36:16]
Wale
I mean, coming from dc, there's nobody. Like, how could I not? Like, there ain't nobody that. No OGs from D.C. was like, I'm gonna make sure he. Bro, they. You know, there wasn't nobody to go to. So I was. I did feel like that.
- [36:30]
Charlamagne Tha God
But, you know, man, Wale, we've had these conversations before. Off air, man. Happiness is a choice. Not discarding anything that you've ever been through, but happiness is absolutely. And I always tell you, man, you gotta look at how great a career you've had over.
- [36:43]
Wale
I thank God every day for my being right now when I look at.
- [36:47]
Charlamagne Tha God
This, and I haven't looked at this XL freshman class in a long time, bro. There's only, like, one other person who's.
- [36:53]
Wale
Nah, I get it. Still around. I get it. I get it. I don't want you to take it that I'm not happy. Cause, like, I don't gotta go work and I don't gotta work in Popeyes. I don't gotta do nothing. I don't gotta do stuff. That's. You know what I'm saying?
- [37:06]
DJ Envy
I understand.
- [37:06]
Wale
It's not physically trying, but, like, right up here, like, it do something to you. It do do something to you. Because I put myself out there. I've been put out there for 15 years. So, like, you know, I gotta see.
- [37:18]
Charlamagne Tha God
On the album, when I'm messing up. Up top, I go low if I get low.
- [37:21]
Wale
You know what I'm saying?
- [37:22]
DJ Envy
What else do you want from me?
- [37:23]
Wale
That's really what you. I promise you, I probably got thicker skin than 90% of the population. Cause what I've been through, I'm not, like, upset. But sometimes I like, if you get a thousand things thrown your way, like, one of them gonna, like, mess with you. You know what I'm saying?
- [37:40]
Host 1
What's the perfect relationship with you between the industry in an artist like Wale? Like, if it could go the way you think it would be, because what you're describing is people just being business as usual.
- [37:49]
Wale
I just.
- [37:50]
Host 1
Yeah, get around.
- [37:51]
Wale
Yeah. It's just. It's just be filling with. But I just. In a perfect world, it's just like the art is. Is the thing right now everybody's saying I got one of the best albums of the year easily. And then I want it to be the best album of the 2000s. Then I want it to be one of the best albums of all time. You know what I'm saying? Like that in a perfect world, to be like that, but like so many other things come into play. Like, we not, you know, an algorithm told y' all that while they not good, like while they not hot or while they use this or whatever, algorithm told you that, you know, algorithm tells you that it plays the next song for you. You know what I'm saying? So we are so. I can't battle that. I had a decline. I had them. I had one of the biggest declines in like sales. Nothing tour wise changed, but I had the biggest decline in sales when it went from physical to streaming. Like, like, it's like everything. I stopped hitting 100 first week once I went to streaming because I'm a.
- [38:48]
Charlamagne Tha God
You should have hired bots like everybody else.
- [38:49]
Lauren
You should that type of guy.
- [38:52]
Charlamagne Tha God
You know the game they playing.
- [38:53]
Wale
That's why I start that. That's why I start belly off where they say the stream's fake, the bots running this thing. Wait, I can't. Like, I, like, I can't. You know, it's dead Internet theory type shit going on. So it was like, I get it. Like, you know, I can't. But it's like I can't even play that game. Like, it's. It's a. It's a. I feel like it's a slap in the face of cool Herc in them. That's crazy. It's a slap in the face when you know so.
- [39:17]
DJ Envy
Because when they play with your name and you say something, then they say you're emotional. But now you. You understand why you.
- [39:22]
Charlamagne Tha God
You, you.
- [39:22]
DJ Envy
You take it to heart so strong.
- [39:24]
Wale
Because I. Because. And then the other thing is like, I know. I know y' all favorite rappers for real. I know them. And I'm like, you think, Bruh, you think I'm. I'm just honest with my. I'm all these guys. Like, a lot of these guys be just like, they just be perfect. Like, they not. It ain't like that. I know you for real. So it do be frustrating because I'm not trying to be rah rah, whatever, but I'm saying what I say. I'm. I'm honest. I tell you my life. A lot of people, like, just. You know what I mean? So, like, I look at the industry a certain way. I look at how it is a certain way.
- [39:57]
Charlamagne Tha God
What did making this album teach you about yourself that you didn't know before?
- [40:01]
Wale
Oh, man, I took it to the limit, man. I just took it to the limit. Like, my engineer, really, really, really good. Technical, like, technical. But he don't got that thing that we all got, like, you know that thing like. Like I'm doing like, you listen to like Blanco or Cornerback. I'm doing four part harmonies. Cause I'm like, you know, big Jodeci fan. I'm like, there ain't no rappers doing no four part harmony. And I can't even talk to him about callback. Get on up. You can sit down, d'. Angelo. Like, I can't because there's a thing. And I didn't realize how much it matters for the engineer to have that. You know what I'm saying? Cause we was having really. We was really having. I had to really teach him while I'm making the album. It was this. Been the hardest thing I've ever had to do, like, creatively, ever by a mile. Wow.
- [40:56]
Host 1
In Mirror on the Bins, it's kind of like a letter to yourself. Like, you're talking to yourself, right? With you being so vulnerable and so honest and you saying that, like, you don't take it as People like, you don't inherit the. I'm emotional, I'm just honest. Why did you. Why did Wale feel like he needed.
- [41:12]
Wale
Maybe I am emotional, like, you know what I'm saying? But it's not without. It's not without reason. You know what I'm saying?
- [41:18]
Host 1
Well, I'm just saying I feel like in this, in this song, when I'm hearing you talk to yourself, I'm like, yes, I want him to do this often because I want more music. I want him out and about. But hearing you talk here and right now, it's kind of like you not letting things get you, but they are getting to you. So I'm wondering why you decided to put a record like this where you're kind of basically saying, I do need that uplifting sometimes. Because you've always said, I don't care what's going on, I just stay away from y'.
- [41:40]
Lauren
All.
- [41:41]
Wale
Could we just like, I Mean, like, it's just, you know. You know, black women put me on to man. Like, manifesting and all that. Like, so I just wanted to put it in a song for him. Like, that joint, like, that joint is really just for black men. That ain't for nobody else. Burning the bands is for black men. Manifest. Like, I'm not. I wasn't the biggest. I'm still not really big on it, but I'm like, if I'm gonna try it, let me do it in the form of a song, you know? And it's like I'm reminding myself who inspired everybody. That's inspiring the youth. I want two more horn. I'm just clearing it to you. I know you're just a mirror, but my fear is only you. Like, I'm. I'm only scared of, like, I'm only fearing myself and what I'm capable of. You know what I'm saying? So I just have to speak life into my career because sometimes it do be feeling like I get left out of a lot of things that I'm not supposed to be left out of. So I gotta remind myself, like, you deserve everything you do. They just want to get you in the mood. They gonna track us to work, right? Should have never stopped listening to you. And that's the inner child of me. Like, should have never stopped listening. I should have never stopped listening to the child. The kid that was bold enough to try to rap in D.C. and make it like that. He's somewhere inside here. As jaded as I am. He's somewhere inside, and I'm trying to pull it out. I should have never stopped listening to you.
- [43:03]
Charlamagne Tha God
What made you stop listening to him? The noise in the industry.
- [43:06]
Wale
I think we all stop listening to our inner child sometimes. Like. Like, it's like this. This game, you know, failure, or like. Like not reaching your goals. You. You try to reroute things. You try, like, man, okay, I'm gonna do it this way. I'm gonna do it that way. You know what I'm saying, though? And sometimes when you do that, you lose your inner child. I hear comedians talk about it all the time. I hear, you know, rappers say it in other ways, or you can see it, how they've lost their inner child and this industry would do it to you. Like, it's not. Again, I'm grateful for where I'm at, but it's like playing Madden on, like, the hardest level or playing any video game on the hardest level, and it get harder and harder every year.
- [43:46]
Lauren
Have you given up on Seeing Metric success. Cause on, like, Guy, you say, this album ain't going platinum no matter how this shit get done. I mean, no matter how this shit is done.
- [43:55]
Wale
Yeah, you see what's happening to me. You don't want to let it happen to us. So how deep I go into my work and how the goals I set for myself. Any man got his goals, whatever. Mine is. Like, yo, like, you see how my. You see how this joint is torturing me as an artist, as a man, as a person, as a father. Like, you see how it's torturing me. But you, like, you lift me up all these times, and I know I'm not at my best, but you don't want what's happening over here to break us down. You know what I'm saying? Because, again, the levity I talked about is heavy for you. I see you. I see. I'm looking at Instagram, Twitter, I'm looking at tv. I'm listening to the radio. Like, I see what you're going through. I don't want it to happen. You know what I'm saying?
- [44:48]
Charlamagne Tha God
But there's also power in words.
- [44:50]
Wale
Why you don't say you going platinum if I'm talking. That's why. It's honest. Cause if I'm really talking to somebody, if I'm really like, that song was like, yo, you coming home from the club. And like, she's like. Like, you could see that she's kind of over it, like. And I'm like, yo, this ain't going platinum no how. Like, it's a hyperbole, for real. I think it can go platinum, but I'm just saying, like, yo, like, shorty, this ain't going platinum. I'm doing my best. I'm trying to do the impossible, and I'm losing my mind in the process. I'm losing my mind in the process. So he's saying going platinum no matter what I do. But you know what I'm saying?
- [45:24]
Lauren
I think that's just the defense mechanism to manage your expectations or your disappointments.
- [45:29]
Wale
But, I mean, I understand the layer of the. Of the. Where we at right now.
- [45:35]
DJ Envy
I wanted to know. We talk about, you know, you talk about friend groups and people that you can lean on, right? We talk about people to work with, like me, Sharla, Jess, Lauren. We don't hang out with each other outside of the show, but they are people that I can call upon if I have a problem or they can give me advice. Do you have that in the industry with somebody? You could say, yo, I Need that or what it is. Do you have that or no?
- [45:54]
Charlamagne Tha God
And that be venting to me. Don't let that fool you.
- [45:57]
Wale
Nah.
- [45:57]
Charlamagne Tha God
Yeah, that.
- [45:58]
Wale
Call me. You said we don't hang out. No, I said we don't hang out. But I said I call you.
- [46:03]
Host 1
He needs to call you.
- [46:04]
Charlamagne Tha God
I am always a shoulder for you to lean.
- [46:05]
Lauren
I don't vent him because he'll laugh right at you.
- [46:10]
Wale
A little bit of that. Like, my cousin who passed. I was just telling you about. I was like. Now, looking back on it, I was in, like, an. Definitely was in a psychosis for, like, two weeks at least, because I just. Looking back on it, just things I was doing. I remember I called Kendrick around that time. We talked about, like, we just had. That was at that time. And I remember, like. Like, getting ready to have my. My child. I talked to Cole. That was probably the only two times I really leaned on an industry person, you know, so. But the crazy thing is, false prophets came out the next day.
- [46:49]
Charlamagne Tha God
I was gonna ask you about that.
- [46:50]
Wale
False prophets came out the very next day of that. But I ain't take it, though. You know what I'm saying? But I think he didn't tell you.
- [46:56]
Charlamagne Tha God
The record was dropping.
- [46:58]
Wale
Nah, but I mean, he said it's not really about me. But, I mean, all I'm saying is that I love him. That's my brother. Whatever. I just. I mean, I think I kind of halted telling any industry person anything too deep. Like, around that time. Like, I just. Like, you know what? I only. I only want to think that they using this. Like, you know what I'm saying? So, yeah, the answer to that question is no, no, not no more.
- [47:25]
Charlamagne Tha God
No. What. What does heartbreak taught you about yourself? And I ain't even just talking about romantic heartbreak.
- [47:31]
Wale
I'm talking about, you know, what's so crazy?
- [47:34]
DJ Envy
Well.
- [47:34]
Wale
Oh, well. Well, that's.
- [47:35]
Charlamagne Tha God
Stay romantic. Stay romantic. What does heartbreak taught you about yourself?
- [47:39]
Wale
Man, it's crazy, like. Cause, like, the ex that told me that I was cold, like, she was definitely right. You know what I'm saying? But also, as soon as we broke up, she had a baby. So I'm like. So it's like, I try to. I don't know if any of you ever talked to somebody for a long time, and then, like, y' all have, like, a super small fight, which I. And then y' all never speak again. Yeah, but that's happened. And then I thought I was in love with that person. I'm like, damn. Like, we. Y', all, like, like, had Like a fight about leaving a box of cereal open. And you went to work and I never seen. Seen you again. Or you just super on. On every couch in la, like, having the time, like, so I don't know. You know, that's who did all this shit. Nah, it's ain't nobody. How come we not talking about where to start? He's watching us. Where to start? Tomorrow, today.
- [48:44]
Lauren
Because that hurts you. You thought you was in love with your. Like you was in love with Shorty, and then something is playing, but it's.
- [48:50]
Wale
Just as much as. It's just as much sunshine. It is as rain on album.
- [48:54]
Host 1
Yeah, but even in.
- [48:55]
Wale
You know why I made Tomorrow Today? Is because at the time, there were so many contrived toxic love songs, like, just to fake be toxic. And I'm like, dawg, whatever happened to being like, okay, I'm pressed. Now what? What we gonna do now?
- [49:10]
Lauren
Right?
- [49:10]
Wale
I'm pressed. Cool. What, you gonna make fun of me? Cause nobody in your phone is me, so whatever. Tell your friends. Yeah. While they pressed on me. And still. What. What's going on? So I'm sick for that now. I wanted to make a love song. I just wanted to be like.
- [49:26]
DJ Envy
Cause I was pressed for my wife and.
- [49:27]
Wale
And there you go. And look at you now with 100 kids.
- [49:30]
DJ Envy
We got six kids, 24 years marriage.
- [49:33]
Wale
Yeah, man. And all them cars and stuff. You got your partner.
- [49:37]
DJ Envy
Goddamn right.
- [49:38]
Wale
Yeah. So I'm just saying, like, tomorrow, today. Like, yo, like, yeah, I'm spitting. So what? Love. Tricky to trust. Try to play with my heart. You gonna need a midden of glove. This shit been cold. It's not cold right now. I'm optimistic. So it ain't who broke your heart all the time. It's like, I seen you 10 minutes ago, dropped you off. I really want to spin and come back. I don't want to wait till tomorrow. I fuck with you like that.
- [50:02]
Lauren
Oh, you in love right now, Wale.
- [50:05]
Wale
Damn. Oh, boy.
- [50:08]
Lauren
Don't give me no palm. Yo, you in love right now or no?
- [50:12]
Wale
Yes, right away.
- [50:12]
DJ Envy
So whatever happened now, he gonna get in trouble when he get back to the crib now.
- [50:19]
Wale
I don't know. I don't know if I should answer that question. I don't know. I don't know how to. I don't know how to answer that question.
- [50:26]
Lauren
Okay.
- [50:26]
Host 1
What you mean you don't know how to? There's a person that you're dating that you would contemplate being in love with.
- [50:32]
Wale
Or you don't want to put Your heart out there. I think all of the answers is in the album.
- [50:39]
Lauren
Just like us.
- [50:39]
Host 1
No, for sure. I was going to say when you.
- [50:41]
Wale
Said to Jess, actually, y'. All. Actually, y' all actually cooked with the questions because I was like, I ain't know what y' all really got, lyrics and stuff. It's the music.
- [50:50]
Lauren
It's everything you put.
- [50:51]
Charlamagne Tha God
I mean, I'm still. I'm even thinking about conundrum when you start off. My baby mother told her new husband she had to move on.
- [50:57]
Host 1
She was ready to be a wife.
- [50:59]
Wale
She trying to be a wife. And we've been fighting for too long, but that's the price. That's the price of this life. I pray for guidance and coupons. This shit is expensive. On your heart. I can't say not. I can't. And damn. Okay, here's a little bit that I'll say that I won't tell nobody.
- [51:18]
Charlamagne Tha God
Thank you.
- [51:21]
Wale
The original line was, my baby mother told me she loved me, but gotta move on. I was like, why? Then I. Hallelujah. Then I changed it to my baby mother told me it's, fuck me, I'm about to move on. I was like, why don't I? Then it turned to, my baby mother told her new husband she had to move on. So those are all the stages in the making this album that had happened. We already. We already. We ain't we been not together. Like, you know what I'm saying? She's a great mom. I don't really got nothing bad to say about her. Like, we bump heads, but, like, great mom, solid woman, all of these things, it just didn't work. You know what I'm saying? And I went through all them stages. Love you, bye. Bye, you. Fuck you, goodbye. Hey, I got this guy. I'm out. And I will say, like, the craziest thing about it all is, like, he's a really good dude. And it's like, bro, it could be a real, like, learning or teaching moment for, like, niggas understand? Like, bro, you don't gotta be like, he not. He not in a media op. You know what I'm saying? Like, the dude does community stuff. He does. He's really good with bozallah. Like, he's just. And, like, I could. He's like a nigga that you could go out and have a drink with. Like, you can. It's okay to move on in your life. You know what I'm saying?
- [52:53]
Charlamagne Tha God
How long, though? How long after y' all broke up.
- [52:55]
Wale
Did she move on? I mean, I don't even know. Cause I wasn't when it was over. I just. I checked out of that. So I wasn't in her business. And I never, you know. And then, you know, co parenting is a thing that's like. It's different for everybody.
- [53:11]
Charlamagne Tha God
I wrote a book about it. It's coming up.
- [53:12]
Wale
Did you.
- [53:13]
Lauren
Yeah, I did tell.
- [53:14]
Charlamagne Tha God
Definitely we parented, man.
- [53:15]
Wale
Let me. I'm gonna have to come up here with old boy and talk about him.
- [53:20]
Lauren
That would be cool.
- [53:21]
Wale
Cause it really, bruh, like, if you. If, like, you have a child with somebody, like, it do matter who they be around, and he's just a dude that's like, we got. It's almost like he get why I couldn't do it and I get why he can't. You know what I'm saying? Like, he be on it like, bro, like, I get it. Cause he know a lot of artists too. He be like, man, I get it. Like, bruh, you trying. You just. You doing you. You know what I'm saying? I'm gonna bring her. I'm gonna bring her over like, you know what I'm saying? Oh, this is what happened in that school. I can't even talk. I can't. It's hard for me, my daughter, mother, to even talk.
- [53:57]
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- [53:59]
Wale
All.
- [53:59]
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- [57:45]
Wale
It's the L like we respect is love. It was just like it's too much. So me and Slim be talking and it's like kind of refreshing because it's like I don't gotta worry about if my daughter, you know what I'm saying? I don't got word. And also, like, you know, they just had another kid, and it's like, my daughter got a brother now. That's a new reality for me, like, you know what I'm saying? And he just. He make. He making it easier than it could be really difficult, and you know what I'm saying? So I'm grateful for that.
- [58:16]
Charlamagne Tha God
What's something you want your child to learn from? Watching your journey, not your music, but just your life, man.
- [58:22]
Wale
A lot, actually, because it's like, she don't. She don't understand. Like, you know, like, when we was growing up, like, we was all really, really was. We just ain't have nothing. And, you know, you got two immigrant parents meet at UDC and have me, and, like, they trying to figure it out. I just like how hard. Like, how hard I work. So she don't got, you know, like, even sniff anything close to what I had to go through. I don't know. You know, my cousin Banger, the actor, he's on wire and all that. Like, we was. You know, I was the baby. We always used to walk because we lived in D.C. they lived in Maryland. And I just remember, like, my mom would drop us at Banger House and all of us walking to school. Like, I look back at that, it's like, bro, we ain't have nothing for real, like, for so long. And it's like our job, each is trying to make sure, like, she don't even got sniffed at, you know what I'm saying? But sometimes in parenting, it's crazy, because what we do, we got more money than people our age, parents. So they get in these. They get in these other environments that we put them in because we got, you know what I'm saying? Like, so it kind of shapes their personality a little bit. I just think it's kind of crazy, like, you know what I'm saying? Like, you know, having, you know, private schools and all that.
- [59:46]
Lauren
Yeah, we ain't get that exactly, you know, so.
- [59:48]
Wale
Yeah, but, like, I just wanted to have, like. Like, more than what I had. And maybe I might obsess over too much because I work crazy to be like, yo, everything is taken care of. You know what I'm saying? But that's a big thing. I just want to know how hard I go. And then when she get to the age and she find her passion, whatever it is, to understand, like, this is what we do in this family. We work, we go hard, we grind it out.
- [60:14]
Lauren
Beautiful.
- [60:16]
Host 1
The text that you sent your mom, the album with all this great praise that the album is getting. Mom listened to it. Did she say you did? Okay?
- [60:24]
Wale
My mom is not. Like, she don't. Like, she don't. I still don't. It's just like, mommy, you don't understand or you don't really care. It's one or the other. But it took a long time in my career to even acknowledge this is a real job. You know what I'm saying? I think it was when I met Obama, when I performed at the White House. Cause that's the biggest picture in the living room now.
- [60:49]
DJ Envy
Damn. You've been doing it for that long, and that was the final.
- [60:52]
Wale
Yeah, that's crazy, right? But it's like, I can't be mad at her. Like, she. My mom had a hard life in Nigeria. She barely got here. You know what I'm saying? So it's like sometimes I try to be like, get like, juice her up, like, mommy, you see what I'm doing? Ain't you happy? And she's just like, yeah, that's nice. Like, you know what? I'm changing the subject. So. I don't know. I think it's just like, as we get older, I do Bijah, like, want her validation. I ain't really care. When I was younger, like, man, whatever. Like, I still pay bills and take care of it, but, like, I, like, wanted her to know. Like, you know what I'm saying? Cause I was really bad. Like, I was really troubled when I was a child. Like, I ain't go to no regular school after second grade. From second grade to the last semester of my senior year, I was in all types of different programs. Like, behavior.
- [61:48]
Lauren
Because of your behavior.
- [61:49]
Wale
Yeah.
- [61:50]
Lauren
So you wanna make her proud.
- [61:51]
Wale
I just wanna be like, yo, you know what I'm saying? Like, I know it's in Orthodox, like, whatever, but, like, see how they act? See how they react when I go to Nigeria, Mommy, like, you see how. Whatever. So I be trying, you know, make her. But, you know, Nigerian parents, man, they. They like that. Like, a lot of immigrant parents was like that.
- [62:10]
Charlamagne Tha God
So you mentioned on the album a couple of times that she basically wants you to get married.
- [62:14]
Wale
Yeah, man.
- [62:15]
Charlamagne Tha God
So she really on you.
- [62:16]
Wale
So my brother got. My brother, like, since the last album. My little cousin, whom he met his wife at, like, an album release party long time ago, they married, got a beautiful family. We went to Nigeria. Crazy wedding, all that stuff. You know, Nigerians, big weddings, be like five outfit changes, choreography, all that. You know, it was a time. Then my brother, he getting married out Here, kind of a smaller thing. He wanted to do a low key, but it's like, dang, I went from never been to a wedding to, like, some of the closest people in my life getting married. And, like, you know, all the aunties there, all the grandmothers, like, all the elders there. And I'm, you know, coming in, like, it ain't no way I can not be me. Like, you know what I'm saying? So I'm hearing it from everybody. So what are you doing? Where is your own wife? All right, what are you doing? Like, it became a theme. Like, and I'm, like, literally working on the album while I'm at these weddings. And it's like, all right. Like, all right, I get it. You know what I'm saying? I get it.
- [63:22]
Lauren
It's the pressure.
- [63:23]
Wale
Yeah. But also, there is a thing that I hope none of that, like, my elder Nigerian, like, uncles and aunts, don't take this the wrong way, but, like, there's a culture of. Well, it goes for a lot of immigrant parents. Like, they always want to show their friends, oh, look, my son just got married. Look at our wedding. My son is a doctor. My son just graduated college. Like, my. You know what I'm saying? They always wanted to do that. And, you know, I don't know what more. I don't know. I don't know. I don't think the music shit phases my. You know. So I hear the marriage thing and, like, you know, does she understand why.
- [64:01]
Charlamagne Tha God
You can't find somebody, though? Because of the industry?
- [64:04]
Wale
Hell, no.
- [64:04]
Charlamagne Tha God
Okay.
- [64:05]
Lauren
All right.
- [64:05]
Wale
You know, she thinking. She be thinking, like, man, she be like, trying to put, like, put blind dates together. I'm like, mommy, no, ain't no way. Like, I'm like, these girls are finessing you. Like, they know what they trying to. They telling. They trying to act. She's like, no, she doesn't know you're famous. Is it? She Nigerian and she's from Baltimore. Like, ain't no mommy. Stop. Yo, it's gonna happen when it happened, like, don't try. That's funny. But she was like, yo, this is not Nigeria, 1960.
- [64:34]
Lauren
Like, where do they be finding your mother at? First of all?
- [64:37]
Wale
Like, man, they. Now, she got. She got friends. She be our friends now. She keep it low. For real. Like, she keep it low, but, like, she got, you know, church friends and all that. Like, oh, like, you know, like, she thinks she doing the right thing. God bless her.
- [64:50]
Host 1
Are you dating to marry right now?
- [64:53]
Wale
Absolutely. Yeah, man. Yeah. Yeah. I had that realization within These four years, like, since I dropped. Like, I'm like, bro, it's like a lot of, like. Cause that. That. That you find shit like that wears off in like two weeks. Like, all right. Then it's like, yo, can we laugh? Can we, like, can I. Can we decompress? You know what I'm saying? Can we do we have, like, what are our interests? Like that keep this jump. You know what I'm saying? Can you understand me if I don't feel like talking for like a day or whatever? Like, let's be those things and like, you really want again. You want build, you want to keep going to whatever. Every. All of us in here got some up. Nobody's complacent. You gotta find somebody that's like, that make you not complacent. That make you feel like your wife. Make you feel like y' all still in it. Like, you gotta pick the person that's like, you really can see yourself really building with, like, when things. When. When babies come, weight fluctuates or, you know, you around a million perfect joints a day. Like, like. You know what I'm saying? Like, it matters. Like, don't nobody want to be, like, having to juggle about 100 emotions unless you on that poly shit. But I don't know. We don't know how that. If that's sustainable with that. But yeah, it be dating the Murray episode.
- [66:19]
Charlamagne Tha God
The Nigerian in. You don't ever want more than one.
- [66:21]
Wale
Ha. I think that's an old trope. I don't know if that is accurate, but I used to think, like, you know, yeah, maybe every spread, like, so I'm never alone, but I don't know. I don't think so.
- [66:35]
Lauren
Like, you don't got enough patience. Yeah, I feel like your patience.
- [66:39]
Wale
But also a lot of people in that world kind of like, they settle. The women settle. Like, yeah, he don't got patience. But I'm. I'll take what I can get type.
- [66:48]
Charlamagne Tha God
Thing, you know, I wanted to ask you, man, you know, everything is a lot. I think it's your best body at work. When I. When I heard it a few weeks ago, I was like, yo, this is classic Wale. Like, it's just like everything that you love about Wale is in this album. And I think about Jay Z when he was on Breakfast Club 13 years ago, and we asked him who from this new era is going to be around in the future. He only named three people. He said, obviously, Cole. He said, Drake, absolutely. Or four Drake, absolutely. Kendrick as well. And then he said, just on sheer will and wanting it, Wale is going to be here. So you have that kind of vision. So who do you see now that's going to be here 10 years from now? Have they reached the level to get a shout out? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. These people that I'm about to mention definitely reached the level. I mean, obviously, J. Cole, Drake, absolutely. Kendrick as well, I think. Just. Just on. On. He's talented, very talented. But just on. On sheer will and wanting it, Wale is going to be here as well.
- [67:52]
Wale
Yeah.
- [67:52]
Charlamagne Tha God
You think about that statement 13 years ago, and you here still, you know, giving us terrific music.
- [67:57]
Wale
First of all, y' all gonna. Y' all gonna fly that in the thing. Just making sure. Now you directing the show. Now you're directing the show. These whipper snappers need to know, but that's right. Nah. What was the end question again?
- [68:11]
Charlamagne Tha God
How did that make you feel?
- [68:12]
Wale
Oh, I'm. Oh, shit. I remember that day, actually, because that's when I was at Roc Nation. And I think Emory was like. Like, I always used to come, like, come upstairs off to, like, just being with everybody, like, the whole, like, building whatever. And Emory was like, yo, yo, bro. Yo, you gonna like what? You gonna like what bro said on it. You know, he sound like he from Baltimore. He gonna like, what bro? He like what bro said on it on the joint, right? I was like, what you talking about? He's like, all right, you gonna see. And then. Then I. Then I actually. Then Jake came around and he was just like, whatever. Like. And then, like, when it. When it finally hit, I was like, oh. You know what I'm saying? Like, okay, I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna let him down at all. Like, you know what I'm saying? That jump, it keeps me motivated to this day that he saw that in me. Cause it's like. But then, like, now that I'm way older now, I think back to, like, what could make him think that? And I remember when we was. When this. When I first dropped out of school. Like, people don't understand. Like, when I was touring with Mark Ronson, we was opening for Jay, so he had his eye on me for a long time. I remember I forgot where we were. We did maybe like a week stretch, and he. That's. They started being comfortable letting me around. So, like, he caught him up. We slap boxing and everything at this point. And I remember he saw me. Cause I ain't had no songs out like that. I had mixtape songs, and I'm doing like, 60,000 people with Mark having to keep the crowd going. And he saw around the time more about nothing dropped. He saw the process of me hearing the song with them at, like, Bungalow 8 or one of them clubs and, like, bobbing my head to it to like it being on the mixtape to me performing it because I ain't have no joints. So I sampled this song called Black and Gold that was big in, like, the uk, Ireland, around that time. And I made it like an EDM song. And I remember walking off that stage and he dapped me. He was like, dog, you different. You be figuring it out. Cause he saw when I just get your hands up. Random hip hop, da da da to me doing an EDM record and then be like, okay, I know they gonna know the hook. And they got. I figured that out early. And he always admired that. So I think that when he say the resilient thing, he saw everything that I was going through with him. Even the chilling video, like, when it debuted on 106th park, it was completely different. He was in the office. He saw what I was going through. Pretty Girls video. They actually put it out with a green screen in the background instead of. It was supposed to be. He was there with that. And he just seen how I kept maneuvering. Like, yeah, I kirk out online. I be mad, but he would see how I, like, land on my feet or, like, bounce back with something. So I think that's why he said that, like, looking back on it. But it juiced me for my. Like, I'm always. I always think about that, hearing all of that.
- [71:13]
Host 1
That sounds like community, right? And that's like, you said, it was hard.
- [71:17]
Wale
That sounds like management management, but like, that sounds like Roc Nation management, but.
- [71:21]
Host 1
Do you know how many times you have management but, like, they don't care enough to even watch you go through these things and do as much as they can and give you props to push you so that you can.
- [71:30]
Wale
It's a.
- [71:31]
Charlamagne Tha God
They not gonna lie about that.
- [71:32]
Wale
It's definitely business. And also, like, he is Michael Jordan. And Michael. You can't ask Michael Jordan why the 13s don't fit like the 12s. You know what I'm saying? So it was business. He definitely took a liking to me, but it's still like, I'm still earning the potential. Not saying that that's why, but it's just like, you know, I don't look at that as community is me asking Black thought, like, yo, what you think about this hook or this flow or this cadence, like, or me talking to young Chris about, like, man, what you think? Like, sending him a verse. Like, what you think that I did Is this young, right? Like, that's the communities. Stuff like that.
- [72:13]
Lauren
We got individuals coming, but everything is alive, man.
- [72:18]
Wale
Force it by fire, man. What you doing after this?
- [72:22]
Host 1
Not.
- [72:25]
Wale
Yeah, we gonna put out some visuals.
- [72:27]
Charlamagne Tha God
When people finish this album, what's the one truth you want them to sit with?
- [72:32]
Wale
I want them to feel like they watched a movie. Like, whatever. However, if you like it, love it, hate it, you know, watch. Watch the movie and understand. If you. If they take it, like, oh, this was a movie. I didn't like it or I didn't understand it. Cool. It was a movie. You run it back and watch it again and look. You know what I'm saying? Go look online, go on Reddit, whatever. Let it break down. I want them to really see the whole picture. Because I'm. I mean, the work starts now with that album. Like, you know, the work really starts now. Like, okay, it's out. Like, all right, let me make. Let me push, like, my songs. Let me make sure they're in people's hands, like. And that they know the movie. So any feedback is appreciated because niggas could feel how they feel. But, like, don't. Not. Don't look at it like, oh, a playlist or nothing. Like, it ain't that. This is a real thing. These stories are in. They're weaving within each other.
- [73:29]
DJ Envy
Well, let's get into a joint with that.
- [73:30]
Charlamagne Tha God
Hold on. I got one more. At this point in your career, what part of wale do you feel people still misunderstand the most?
- [73:37]
Wale
I think people think I'm angry. I even said it in all mirrors. People think you crazy, and the crackers think you're too aggressive. You know what I'm saying? Like, where I live, ain't no black people. So it's like I can't even. Like, you know, I be trying to go for my little jogs. I put the shiesty on. Cause it could be anybody. Actually, I was jogging on my neighbor one time, and Rihanna texted me, was like, yo, is that you running around? I was like, what? What you mean? You know what I'm saying? And I was just like, how did you see me? She was like, yo, me and Rocky was driving past. We saw you running, you know what I'm saying? But little quick snubbit. I caught the foot, but it made sense to the question. Let me tell you about it. What was the question?
- [74:18]
Charlamagne Tha God
Let me tie back at this point in your career, you know what? Do you think people still misunderstand?
- [74:23]
Wale
Yeah, they think I'm, like, mad all the time, and it's like, bro, I just be out the way and like. But I was going back to the running thing. Like, bro, I just be running. I got this little thing. I run, and it's like. It's always that feeling of, like, white people thinking I'm upset. And then when I come in my own culture, they be like, he's whining. He's upset. Just because everybody try to play it too cool, and I just be saying what I say. Like, people just be thinking I'm mad, and like, bro, I'm not mad at all. You know what I'm saying? Like, when I'm mad, y' all gonna know it for real, you know what I'm saying? Like. Cause I'm a. I'm a. I'm a veteran. Crash out, like. But I'm not. I'm not. People just thinking mad. I just be over a lot of this. I'm over, like, the fake stuff. I'm over, like, oh, let me get the feature, then let me pop off, and let me never me act like, you know what I'm saying? I'm over all of that.
- [75:16]
Lauren
Yeah.
- [75:16]
Wale
And then, you know, the over face might look upset, but tell me a joke. I laugh like, you feel me? Like, if it ain't nothing funny, I ain't about to be said, you know what I'm saying? People just think I'm upset all the time. And that's. That's couldn't be further from the truth, man. I love you more. All right, well, let's get into it.
- [75:35]
DJ Envy
Joe, what you want here?
- [75:36]
Wale
So I got a request I want. Can I have four songs? Why not 10? We can do three. Six. Three.
- [75:44]
DJ Envy
Three, three.
- [75:46]
Wale
We can probably get three. Because I want to know. I want to know what record, because, like, literally, I asked everybody their favorite song. It's always a different jump.
- [75:54]
DJ Envy
So let's pick three. Can we do three?
- [75:56]
Wale
Okay. Okay. Can everybody. Can everybody just give me one? And then you said, where to start?
- [76:02]
Host 1
Yeah, I know that one. Been out there, though. But that's my one.
- [76:06]
Charlamagne Tha God
Power and problems.
- [76:08]
Lauren
Power and problems.
- [76:09]
DJ Envy
I won't say power and problems now.
- [76:12]
Wale
But if that's the joke, this the one that I know didn't hit out. No, no, not then. You was in.
- [76:18]
DJ Envy
I like City05.
- [76:19]
Wale
Yeah. Okay. That's a good choice.
- [76:21]
Lauren
Belly cool, too, but powering problems.
- [76:24]
Wale
I feel like Belly is like my. I was telling. I was telling them to label This, I think Belly is my. Like, this is my new Wale song. Like, this is if somebody wanna know who he is, what he about, where he from. Belly is the jump. Yeah. But I will say, out of them three, we can do Belly Pound Problems and City on Fire and then Corner Bottles.
- [76:53]
Charlamagne Tha God
Yeah. What's the one? What's the one?
- [76:56]
Wale
Can we squeeze half of Corner Bottles in?
- [76:58]
Charlamagne Tha God
There is one. You almost sound like Ross.
- [77:01]
Host 1
Oh, my God, yes.
- [77:02]
Charlamagne Tha God
Which one is that, Michael? Fredo.
- [77:05]
Wale
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [77:06]
Host 1
When I listened to that, I had to go back and click it because I'm like, is this like a link back?
- [77:09]
Charlamagne Tha God
That's hard, too.
- [77:10]
Wale
It was homage. It was homage. Like, the. The style.
- [77:13]
Charlamagne Tha God
I thought it was Ross in front.
- [77:15]
Wale
Nah, you know? Cause that's like a little nod to Ross, like, you know what I'm saying? Like, I'm like, it's always gonna be. Always gonna be locked in, you know what I'm saying? I wanted to show homage in the. A unique way. And also, like, you know, if you've seen Godfather, like, you. You know how, like, nuanced it is. Like, if, you know, like, I always, always. I used to see myself as Sonny, like. Cause, like, Hot Head and like, make like, you know what I'm saying? I've. I've kind of, like, smoothed it out a little bit more. And like, I was more of a Michael now, you know what I'm saying? Because Sonny got spanked because he couldn't control his temper. For real. Michael was more like, you know. You know what I'm saying? And then Fredo's. There's a lot of Fredo's running around. It's just they can't. They not. They don't need to be in no rooms type stuff, so. Yeah, but as far as the flow and the beat, that's all like me just paying homage to Ross. Like, I ain't. A lot of people said I sound like. I don't. I don't. My tone is completely different than his. So just in the beginning, Money, Cheese.
- [78:19]
Host 1
I mean, did he know that that homage was coming or he finding out in his interview right now?
- [78:23]
Wale
He might be finding out right now. All right, well, there you have it.
- [78:28]
DJ Envy
Wale album. Everything is a lot is out now. We appreciate you, brother.
- [78:31]
Wale
Thank you. And I'm sorry, I'm, like, still a little tired from last night, but.
- [78:36]
Charlamagne Tha God
Nah, we appreciate the time working.
- [78:39]
Wale
We literally. So when y' all the jump with me and Leon, I ain't changed. I slept in this and I was. And came in so Thank y' all for the grace.
- [78:47]
DJ Envy
Ms. Wale. It's the Breakfast Club. Good morning.
- [78:51]
Charlamagne Tha God
Every day I wake up.
- [78:52]
Wale
Wake your ass up.
- [78:53]
Charlamagne Tha God
The Breakfast Club.
- [78:57]
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- [79:26]
Wale
That's primal lifeorganics.com Ah, greetings from my bath festive friends. The holidays are overwhelming, but I'm tackling this season with PayPal and making the.
- [79:36]
Coca Cola Announcer
Most of my money.
- [79:37]
Wale
Getting 5% cash back when I pay in 4. No fees, no interest. I used it to get this portable spa with jets. Now the bubbles can cling to my sculpted but pruny body. Make the most of your money this holiday with PayPal. Save the offer in the app ends1231 see paypal.com promoter points can be redeemed for cash and more. Paying for subject to terms and approval. PayPal Inc. And MLS 910457. You know what a girl's best friend is not diamonds her lawyers from executive producer Ryan Murphy comes a fiery new legal drama. It's our own boutique women representing women you can't afford to miss.
- [80:12]
Washable Sofas Advertiser
Make it rigged Showtime, ladies. Stand up straight and breeze into that room like a storm no one saw coming.
- [80:22]
Charlamagne Tha God
Hulu Original Series All's Fair now streaming.
- [80:25]
Wale
On Hulu and Hulu on Disney plus for bundle subscribers. Terms apply.
- [80:29]
Coca Cola Announcer
Running a business is hard enough. Don't make it harder with a dozen apps that don't talk to each other.
- [80:34]
Wale
One for sales, another for inventory, a.
- [80:37]
Coca Cola Announcer
Separate one for accounting. And that's software overload. Odoo is the all in one platform that replaces them all. CRM, accounting, inventory, E Commerce, hr. Fully integrated, easy to use, and built to grow with your business. Thousands have already made the switch. Why not you try Odoo for free@odoo.com.
- [80:57]
Wale
That'S odoo.com no, it's not too soon.
- [81:02]
Washable Sofas Advertiser
To start holiday shopping.
- [81:03]
Wale
Ulta Beauty's early Black Friday event is.
- [81:05]
Washable Sofas Advertiser
Happening now through November 22nd.
- [81:07]
Wale
Shop $10 beauty minis from brands like.
- [81:09]
Washable Sofas Advertiser
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- [81:10]
Wale
Take 30% off Lancome and Touchland fragrances and Body Mists. With new offers dropping every week, our.
- [81:16]
Washable Sofas Advertiser
Associates can help you find the perfect gifts. Head into Ulta Beauty today to shop our early Black Friday event, Ulta Beauty Gifting Happens Here.
- [81:29]
Host 1
This is an iHeart podcast.