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- [00:00]
Brett Cooper
Welcome back to another episode of the Red Cooper Show. I am so excited to be here with you guys again. We have made some adjustments since episode one and two. We got these very, very cool vintage headphones officially working. So I am back with the headphones. We are experimenting with desk today, which I don't really think you guys can see in the shop, but I got some comments like, brett, where's your desk? Which I also did want one. So we're trying some things out. So I'm just reminding you guys that there might be things that change. Try different lighting. The set might evolve. But I'm here. We're talking about important things that I enjoy. Talk. And that is all that matters. And do not worry, guys. I am reading the comments. I know that we need a pop filter on this very, very beautiful mic. We have one. It was supposed to arrive by today, and because Amazon has really lost its mojo, it has been delayed. We actually ordered three of them and none of them arrived. So maybe by next episode, you will have a pop filter on here. But I'm gonna be extra careful with my peas and my articulation. Do not worry to get into it. The Grammys were this week. They were on, and I did not watch. I honestly didn't even know that they were happening until I logged onto social media and saw people posting pictures of the red carpet and all of the weird outfits that celebrities were wearing. I then just followed along on X and TikTok because that is where I get all of my breaking news. But I do feel like I noticed something interesting because the Grammys and all of these award shows, they have gained back significant viewership since the days of COVID when it all dropped and basically no one was watching. But it does feel like the sentiment has changed. Like, now we. We are watching purely for entertainment, not because we revere these people. It's like, oh, my God, the celebrities want to see what the celebrities are doing. Like, I feel like when I am watching clips from the red carpet or seeing who won album of the year or whatnot, I feel like I'm somebody in the Hunger Games watching all the people at the Capitol put on a spectacle. Not that I'm actually watching a bunch of people that I respect be honored for their art. Like, it has totally, totally been flipped, especially with the award shows for film and tv. Like, I don't even know anybody who takes the Oscars seriously anymore, which is definitely unfortunate, but. But it wasn't this way five to ten years ago. Like, I remember growing up in Hollywood and Maybe this is me just being biased. Cause I was a child actor and I had that whole part of my life. Awards season was what I looked forward to every single year. Like my friends and I would get together, we would have parties for every single award show, we would have listened to all the albums, we would have watched all the shows. I was in the actors union, so I voted on all these things. We cared so deeply. Like I would wait all year long to catch a glimpse of these artists and these stars that I respected that had created such amazing art. And I don't feel that way at all anymore. Like at this point, again, I don't even know the events are happening. I'm like, okay. And compared to five years ago, I literally don't know who any of these people are. I feel like there's all of these new stars and actors and musicians. I do not care in the slightest. I can't keep up with any of them. And I don't know if it's because the art has gotten worse or maybe it's me. Maybe I got bored. Maybe I aged out of it after I left Hollywood. Or maybe the world and the world of fame and celebrity just changed in general. And that is what we're gonna talk about today. And guys, I wanna say just a huge thank you for how insane our launch week was. You guys loved the merch, which is in the description below. You also subscribed to Cooper Confidential and Mass, which was just amazing. If you guys don't know, Cooper Confidential is my subscriber only platform where you will be able to get ad free episodes of the Red Cooper Show. We are also going to be doing a weekly Dear Brett advice video that is based on your questions and your comments and your concerns that you'll be submitting to me. And we're also going to be having a subscriber only newsletter which also I think will be launching this week. So I'll make sure to post all about that. So, so glad that you guys are excited. Thank you for all the support in the comments and the subs descriptions. I think this is gonna be a ton of fun. All right, so to jump back into what I was saying before that. Classic cta. I actually think that things have been changing for a long time due to the media landscape. Because like 10, 15, 20 years ago, the media was far more centralized. But now, thanks to social media, we have millions of different stars, we have influencers, we have creators that pop up, we have people that go viral for baking a cake in an interesting way. Like people are just famous for random things. It is not just one set of celebrities. Like, we no longer have this world where the paparazzi and gossip columns and the gossip TV shows are telling us exactly who we should care about. Like the days of Paris Hilton getting, you know, absolutely mobbed whenever she leaves a hotel or goes on a trip. Those are over the days of Brad Pitt being sworn when he was a young man. That just doesn't happen anymore. It's very, very rare. I think the only person that that happens authentically to is somebody like Taylor Swift. But for the majority of celebrities, the people that you see at these award shows, half of the world has no idea who they are. They genuinely do not care. And that is a drastic change from 15 years ago. And I think a lot of that is due to cell phones and social media, which actually Cameron Diaz brought up in a recent interview. If you did not know, Cameron Diaz took 10 years off to be a mom and focus on her family. She is now breaking back into acting. She seems very at peace, very happy with, you know, her decision to come back, very excited about all of it. But she's been doing a press tour for this new film, and she talked about how social media and how cell phones completely changed fame and her experience of fame. Just take a listen.
- [04:58]
Cameron Diaz
It was in Roppongi, and we.
- [04:59]
Brett Cooper
We.
- [05:00]
Cameron Diaz
The three of us walked out, and there was a whole wall of, like, fans who were waiting for us. They knew we were there. And they're all doing this. They're holding something over. Over their heads like this. And we're like, what is that? What are they doing? And the woman who was our host there said, they're filming you. And we're like, on their. On their what? They're like, they're taking pictures of you. And we're like, on what? They're like, they're phones. We, like, literally, like, the wind was knocked out of us. And we looked at each other. Drew and Lucy and I, we looked at each other and, like, almost started crying. It was like that really, that it just flooded us. We were like, oh, my God, it's going to be everywhere. We're not going to be able to do anything. If everybody has a camera on their phone and everybody has phones, it's over. Like, it's. It's over.
- [05:54]
Brett Cooper
And obviously what she's talking about made a huge impact on these celebrities and their ability to have any kind of privacy or know how to dodge paparazzi and be able to, like, be in the press and then not be in the press. But it also completely changed how we interact with celebrity, how we think about celebrities. Because from there, we genuinely had access to everything, not just the curated moments that were brought to us again by People magazine or Us Weekly and the paparazzi and the gossip columns and the Perez Hiltons of the world. And from there, the entire thing just snowballed. Like we had so much unfiltered access that by the time we got to 2020 and Covid and the world was turned upside down, we were sick of these people. And I mean, that's around the same time that I started to get sick of traditional skincare and started using tallow. And obviously my favorite place to buy tallow is with my friends over at Amalo Tallow. Now, if you guys don't know what tallow is, Tallow is rendered beef fat. Yes, I do slather beef fat on my face morning and night because it seriously is the best skincare. And I'm going to convince you why. Now, I personally use tallow because it is packed with naturally occurring nutrients and it actually mimics my skin's barrier thanks to to the essential fatty acids that occur in tallow. This means that the tallow is keeping me moisturized while simultaneously actually helping to heal my skin and heal my acne while not clogging my pores like so many of the other thick artificial moisturizers do. And I know if you guys are not accustomed to tallow yet, if you've not been watching my show for the last couple of years and you're like, Brett, what the heck are you talking about? You think it's so weird that I put b fat on my face? Guys, this is what our ancestors used on their faces for generations. And it is the perfect non toxic swap to avoid the endocrine disrupting chemicals that are in so many other parts of our modern skincare. And truly, a mallow is the best place to buy tallow. A mallow is a family owned business. They make their products right here in the USA and they only use the highest quality ingredients. Grass fed, grass finished tallow, organic essential oils. It is nothing but the best for our skin. They genuinely care about your skin and the quality of every ingredient that they use. Because the skin is our largest organ. So what you put on your body matters. So if you are ready to finally try out some tallow or if you need a restock, go to amalo.comcooper and use code COOPER15 to get 15% off your order. Again, that is amalo.comcooper Code COOPER15 for 15% off your order. I promise you, you will love this skincare. It is so clean. They are so transparent about every single thing that they use. You will love it. Now, even though transparency is objectively a good thing, whether or not we are talking about tallow skincare or not, I think the transparency actually killed celebrities as we used to know it, because there used to be this veil that separated us from the celebrities. You know, we knew that they lived these lavish lives, but we put them on a pedestal and we never really compared ourselves to them. Like maybe they would do, you know, some faux relatability, but we never really saw it. And we could just admire them and their beautiful dresses and their clothes and the vacations they would go on and the movies that they would make. And we were always, you know, just distant. They stayed in their lane, we stayed in ours. And COVID 19 completely turned that upside down. And I don't know what it was. Maybe they genuinely were trying to connect with people or do something meaningful. I don't know. They're all actors. They were probably just trying to make a moment for themselves, but they started to get a little too transparent and it did not work in their favor. Do you guys remember specifically the Gal Gadot Imagine cover? Like, genuinely, if you go back to that day in March of 2020, I think you can pinpoint that as the day that celebrity died. So Gal Gadot, you really ruined it for the rest of the celebrities. If you guys don't know what I'm talking about, just take a listen. And I'm sorry for your ears. Imagine there's no heaven.
- [09:27]
Bethenny Frankel
Easiest future.
- [09:29]
Brett Cooper
I hate these people. No hell below us, above us, only sky. Imagine all the people. Okay, so the point of this video was to show that we are all in it together, that we are all connected, that all the celebrities from Gal Gadot to Sarah Silverman were thinking of us, that we were all in this fight together. And if we just all sang and held hands in unity and sang Kumbaya, Imagine we would all be just fine. But it really did not work out like that at all. In fact, people looked at that and went, actually, you have no idea what me as a normal non rich person is going through with this lockdown and with this pandemic. So no, I don't want your faux authenticity and sympathy because we are living in completely different worlds. You are filming a selfie video of yourself lamenting and saying, singing, imagine in your mansion while I am out of work or working overtime because of the pandemic. But if you go back and you look at all the comments from when this video was posted back in 2020. I mean, it is just brutal. Like the veil had been pulled back. People were like, oh my God, why have we been idolizing you? You are nothing like me. And the best part, in my opinion, was that the media also didn't hold back anymore. Like they were not running cover for celebrities this time. One headline reads, a video of celebrity singing imagined so bad it can bring us all together in hatred isn' not always nice. I do love when that happens on the Internet. Another one says, Gal Gadot singing Imagine with a bunch of celebs isn't helping my coronavirus anxiety. Yeah, no, I think it only made it worse. Cause I had nightmares about it. New York Times even covered it. This Imagine cover is no heaven. And so the general consensus from this cover and everything that followed, all the celebrities trying to reach out again and find unity and common ground with the normal people that were struggling, the general consensus was, what do these people know about our normal lives? They are so disconnected. The people who are out of work because of COVID the people whose small businesses are being absolutely demolished because of the lockdowns, the people who are frontline workers, the people who had to show up to work regardless in huge masks and gloves and deal with anxiety ridden people on a daily basis who are just trying to buy toilet paper. Like, you do not get us at all. You are sitting in your luxurious mansion with your huge bathtub. You're sitting on your balcony singing Imagine lamenting that you can't go film another Marvel movie and make millions of dollars. We don't care. You don't get us. And I know that Gal Gadot gets a lot of hate for this video. And she's come out now and said, yeah, that was really miscalculated. She tried to walk it back, but it wasn't just her. I mean, Chrissy Teigen, for example, oh my gosh, she. She accidentally ordered a $13,000 bottle of wine to her home during the lockdowns. And she posted this on social media thinking that everybody would find it so funny and so relatable. Like, oh my God, we're all just like drinking in our things that we don't, you know, we're trying to order all these things. We can't go out to eat. No, she posted that and people went, I'm sorry, that's your biggest problem? That you accidentally ordered a $13,000 bottle of wine and it didn't bankrupt you because you are so rich. I Mean, Madonna was posting videos of herself floating in her bathtub. She was doing these like big milk baths where you put milk in the bathtub and she had like flowers floating around her. And she was like, oh, all these things, like, I need Covid to end. Super, super weird. Everybody was like, I'm sorry, we are trying to work and stay afloat, not float in your bathtub. That's just ridiculous. Oh my God. The one that I rediscovered today, which is the actress Priyanka, who is married to Nick Jonas, she made a video of herself standing on the balcony of their mansion overlooking, I don't know, somewhere in California. Something beautiful. Slow clapping for first responders. Just watch. I'm so touched. I mean, it doesn't end. It goes on for like 30 seconds of just, oh, thank you, thank you, theater kids. Like, why? Okay, I can say that because I am a theater kid. What did you think this would do? People watch this video and they're like. I'm like, I don't need your applause at all. This is only making the situation worse because you're trying to empathize with me again from the balcony of your huge Malibu mansion, wherever you are. But again, guys, we're not finished. They just kept going. They kept giving me more content to talk about. For example, the film producer David Geffen posted this early 2020 sunset last night. Isolated in the Grenadines, avoiding the virus. I'm hoping everyone is staying safe. That's his yacht. He is posting a glamour photo of his yacht in March of 2020. Oh, I'm avoiding stay safe everyone. I'm avoiding the virus on my large yacht in the Caribbean. Again, these celebrities post these types of things and then wonder why we stopped caring about them and taking their opinions with a grain of salt. Also, JLo living in a Rod's mansion in Miami or LA, wherever they were making videos complaining about how they couldn't go out to dinner when they most likely have private chefs and are living in an estate. Like, I'm sorry if people were not sympathizing for you when people in LA were having to quarantine in their 500 square foot apartments with roommates. So I'm sorry if normal people in the world saw these posts and decided not to care about your struggles because they weren't real at all. And what made it Even worse in 2020 was that, you know, two months later they picked up the BLM fight, advocating for the destruction in the streets hur even more small businesses and screaming for the defunding of the police. While they sit pretty in their little gated homes and gated communities with their private security genuinely being completely out of touch. So the point I'm trying to make here by giving you all these examples is that 2020 truly killed the traditional celebrity as we knew it once and for all because they could no longer even try to pretend that they were relatable. I loved this article from Vice. I've had it saved for a while because I've always wanted to use this. But they said the reign of the relatable celebrity is over and is from May of 2020. Like they already knew we were not even halfway in to 2020 and they were like yeah, you're done. Sorry, but this is the best quote from this article. I don't even know who this author is, but hit the nail on the head they wrote. In the past, celebrities were strange, faraway creatures with unclear beliefs, intimidating speaking voices and charisma that entered the room like a bottle of smashed perfume. Now we know too much. The undercurrent of every late night talk show appearance, cover story and social media posts and award acceptance speech is relata spin on authenticity invented after the global financial crisis to bridge the obvious and ever widening gulf between the celebs and the plebs by convincing us that we're the same. Actually, we've heard their daily routines, we've seen their toilets in the background of their bathroom selfies, and we've watched them do burpees on Instagram Live. The spell is broken. I mean, at this point, guys, we knew too much about them. 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And that is how I found Mary Health. They completely turned my health upside down and changed the way that I view and heal my body on a daily basis. This truly is an investment that is worth making for both you and your family. And today you can get 10% off with my code COOPER. Just head to merrickhealth.com and use my code COOPER at checkout. Again, that is M-A-R E K health.com MarekHealth My code COOPER at checkout for 10% off your order. Now is the time to stop the guessing and start optimizing your health with one of Marek Health's packages today. And speaking of health, this divide reminds me of our former health secretary under Biden, who basically was the antithesis of health. And every American, basically every American looked at this person and went, I don't think you know anything about health. I don't think I want you telling me what to do. That is basically what happened here with celebrities and normal people who realized, oh my gosh, you know nothing about my life. And so of course, it is no surprise that you just four years later, all of these celebrities did nothing to help their side win the election. Like, I actually think Kamala, having all of these people like Beyonce parade out on stage and have Usher like dancing and telling jokes, I actually think that all those endorsements probably harmed her rather than helped her. Because we know now that these people are completely out of touch. Any illusion of relatability and understanding of the real issues was shattered back in 2020 and in all of the years following it. And so of course, these celebrity endorsements only hurt her with normal Americans because they're like, these are the people that are endorsing you that are saying your policies are so amazing from their glass houses, from their mansions overlooking Malibu. So, no, I'm not going to trust billionaire Taylor Swift to tell me who to vote for. And on that point, Bethenny Frankel, who I just adore, she is an OG Real Housewife. She is blown up on TikTok in a crazy way. She is actually an interesting case study of somebody who used to be a more mainstream celebrity, kind of went, did her own thing, created the skinny margarita, created a bunch of products, and then came back as an influencer and probably now has more influence and fame than she ever did before now in this new media landscape. But anyway, she is really smart, has great common sense. She posted this video right after the election and immediately called out this paradox between all of these huge celebrity endorsements, all of their followers, and the fact that it did nothing. Just watch Hot Take.
- [19:03]
Bethenny Frankel
Celebrities no longer have influence. Let me prove it. So There are like 300 million people in this country. There are 150 million voters, give or take. And the combined social media followings of the people that endorsed Kamala, meaning Taylor Swift, Beyonce, Selena, Chelsea, Amy, everybody, like powerful people, Obama, Hillary, the combined social Media, Jennifer Lopez, etc. The combined number is over 2 billion followers.
- [19:38]
Brett Cooper
It's crazy.
- [19:39]
Bethenny Frankel
Over 2 billion followers. And yes, of course, it's what votes matter and what really did it, but over 2 billion followers did not move the needle for 150 million voters.
- [19:51]
Brett Cooper
That is insane when you break it down like that. Over 2 billion followers combined. That massive amount of influence she captured, to Kamala's credit, she captured all of it. Whether it was authentic or paid for, she did capture it, and it did not impact these 150 million American voters in the way that she expected, in the way that would statistically make sense. That is just shocking. Tim Dillon, who's an amazing comedian, said a very similar thing later that week right after the election.
- [20:15]
Tim Dillon
Taylor Swift is the biggest celebrity endorsement any politician can get. It didn't work. No one cared. Didn't matter. No one gave a. No one gave a shit about Oprah. Nobody cared about George Clooney. Nobody cared about any of these people. Nobody cared about any of these people because people are sick of it. People are sick of it. They don't. They know George Clooney doesn't get them. How stupid would you have to be to think that George Clooney had your best interest at heart? When you're waiting to get discounted food from the church, is that comforting when you're on a line to get discounted food from the church, Who Taylor Swift, a trillionaire thinks you should vote for? Do you think? And all these people are like, well, the women are going to come out because of abortion. Apparently not. Apparently a more salient issue is food.
- [21:07]
Brett Cooper
Crazy when you think about it. And obviously we are many months past the election. You've probably seen these videos before, but I just wanted to reiterate how quickly this changed just over the past four years and the absolute magnitude of it. And it's not just other celebrities and people with influence, albeit celebrities that seem to have a little bit more self awareness, common sense and journos calling it out. Peter Thiel even said this on Bari Weiss's podcast a few months ago.
- [21:31]
Peter Thiel
I would say it tells us that celebrity isn't what it used to be. And celebrity used to have a certain mystique. And it has been somewhat deconstructed. And we, you know, we think of a lot of the Hollywood celebrities, a lot of the, you know, music celebrities as just these, you know, left wing ditto heads. And, you know, they may be smart people. They're not allowed to articulate smart things. They're not allowed to be individuals. And you know, one of the striking thing is I don't think there is room for individual thought left on the left, and it's certainly not in Hollywood. And I think, you know, Hollywood in the 1990s, it was liberal, but, you know, behind closed doors you could say very transgressive things and you realize it was this liberal show you were putting on and then there are parts of it you believed and parts of it that you could question. I don't think people are able to have conversations even in small groups at dinners behind closed doors.
- [22:38]
Brett Cooper
I mean, guys, if you think back to episode one of this show, Whitney Cummings, this was the reason why she left the left because she realized she couldn't question anything. She couldn't even question her own political party and its choice to install Kamala Harris as a candidate. Like that is not what liberalism in the most traditional sense is supposed to be. And she realized, how can I be supporting a party that does this where I can't even question anything? And that is so pervasive. And I think that this Peter Thiel clip is especially interesting because it's not just looking at the response to the celebrities, but also breaking down how they got here and how they lost their influence. You know, besides posting weird videos during COVID Because, sure, the lack of relatability, the lack of understanding, the lack of true authenticity has obviously played, played a huge role in all of this. But it is also the groupthink. It is also the jumping on the bandwagon of political and social justice issues because it's a good PR move and because everybody else is doing it and I've. I've gotta do it too. People sniff that crap out. Now, we don't actually believe that any of it is authentic because you're all doing it. You're all saying the same exact thing. You have no real convictions. You have no bravery to even step outside of your bubble, which, to be fair, you can't really, because they will cancel you into oblivion. So again, no wonder we don't care what they think. It's all mush and political correctness. I mean, I don't even know if these celebrities know what they believe, so why would we trust them? So in my mind now the question is, where have we landed now? You know, post election, we are five years out From COVID Trump is in office. It does feel like the culture is changing. I mean, going back to the Grammys, it just happened on Sunday. It was actually quite politically subdued in terms of how award shows have gone over the past couple of years. I mean, shocking, but also very positive. But, I mean, maybe they've finally gotten the message and have decided to stay in their lanes that we want to hear about their music and not be lectured about politics. I mean, maybe they saw the global response to Selena Gomez's now viral video of her crying over the deportation of rapists and sex traffickers and murderers who have entered this country illegally and realized, yeah, maybe we should let this go. Maybe it's not worth it. Maybe these people do not want to see our faux empathy and getting involved in these issues that really we know nothing about. And by the way, Selena, because I'm not doing an entire episode dedicated to your crying, in your video, you said that these were your people. I don't think I would want these individuals to be my people. That is idiotic. Also doesn't even make sense because those are not your people. You are half Italian. You have a Mexican father who walked out on you and your mother. You were raised in the States by a white Italian mother. These are not your people. This is not your battle. That is why you got reamed. And people really don't want to hear your frankly, uneducated and emotionally fueled response to an issue that impacts all of us a lot more than it impacts you, most likely. Now, to get back on track with the point that I'm trying to make, because I did do a little bit of a Selena Gomez aside on the topic of celebrity. It is such a nuanced subject because obviously we still do have a fascination with celebrities. I mean, I just did an entire 45 minute episode about Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni. We are all sitting on the edge of our seats wanting to know what happens with this case. I mean, I have been watching X and TikTok and Instagram like a hawk over the last six weeks to see if Justin Bieber is going to say anything about Diddy after he unfollowed all this. He will if he's going to comment on on Scooter Braun or Usher, if anything is gonna happen with that. And my interest in both of those stories is less because I care about celebrity and these individuals and more because I care about the story and what is unfolding and what's unfolding. There is people righting wrongs and seeking justice and exposing the truth. Which, if you think about it, the components of these stories, why I'm interested in it, they are actually very human and very relatable experiences. I mean, you know, bar the fact that we will probably never experience anything like this on a global scale, hopefully not. I hope we're not experiencing anything like a blink lively Justin Baldoni story or a Justin Bieber story. But maybe that's why we care, because we've all gone through something where we've had to seek justice or stand up for ourselves or expose the truth. Like that is why we care. Another great and very recent example of this is the resurgence in fame of Spencer and Heidi Pratt from the O.C. these are, you know, old stars of the O.C. they were hugely famous, you know, 15, 20 years ago on that reality TV show, but. But they had kind of become irrelevant over the last decade. But they lost their homes in the Palisades fire a couple of weeks ago. And they have actually shown true humility and true relatability and struggle and gratitude and resilience as they have coped through this and they've shared it all on their social media. And that has spoken to people because they've actually been real. They have leveled with people. They've said, yeah, we actually lost a lot of our money. All of our money was in this home. It was in the art that we had collected in this house. We poured everything into Heidi's album, which flopped. We really, really didn't have any money. Like, I'm pulling back the curtain. It wasn't as glamorous as it seems. And now we're having to start from zero. People saw that and they saw themselves in these once hugely popular figures. And now Spencer and Heidi are more famous than ever. And it's not that we want people to struggle and hurt for us to care, but we want to see something real. We're tired of the PR spins and the faux relatability and the slow claps on the balcony and the weird singing cover. That's not real. But people going through something hard and being honest about that, that speaks to people. Which is probably why the world of influencers has started to outpace traditional celebrity. I mean, if you want to market or sell something in the year 2025, you don't really go to the Kim Kardashians of the world anymore. Number one, they're super expensive, but they really don't sell things anymore. Instead, you go to the influencers, who have spent years building trust and camaraderie and a relationship with their audience, an audience that that wants to follow whatever they do and build whatever they're building and buy whatever they're selling. Because there is that personal relationship. I mean, There is a 2024 marketing report that touches on this. It is the Trust and Influencer Marketing Report. And the study shows that 77% of respondents prefer influencer created content over traditional advertising, while 85% trust influencer sponsored posts more than celebrity endorsements. And these are both famous individuals. These are both people with influence. But again, one is built on a community and trust, and the other is built on an idea that they are better than us and they are unattainable, that they're far away from us. And they've tried this vote relatability, but it doesn't work. And we've just completely rejected it. We've rejected it in terms of what we follow and the content that we engage with, and we've also rejected it in terms of financially supporting them. I mean, as another example, think about podcasters like Joe Rogan and Theo Vaughn, who obviously are incredibly famous, probably more famous than a lot of these traditional celebrities, but they come into our ears and our homes on a weekly basis as themselves, with honesty and curiosity and a respect for their audience. I mean, they've spent years nurturing that. So we trust them. They feel like friends in a way, rather than these unattainable figures posturing as relatable pals who get what we're going through. It's completely different. Like, that is why we trusted them more when it came to political endorsements, because it felt like. Like they had actually done the work to. That's such a leftist term. I'm so sorry. But it really felt like they had done the work to understand the issues that were impacting us. It wasn't just like a, hey, I got a big fat check to endorse Kamala, because that's the cool thing to do. And I want everybody to have equality, even though I don't really know what that means. And I love feminism. And girl like that. That lacks substance, that lacks a genuine understanding of the issues that are impacting a normal American on a daily basis. Like, I genuinely believe that that is one of the most significant reasons why Trump won the election, because of this divide between celebrity endorsements and, you know, independent creators and influencers, which is really now the most important endorsement that you can get. So where now do we go from here? We have broken down how this all fell apart where we're at right now. Where do we go? I mean, obviously, the world of Influencers and podcasters. It is only going to continue to grow. It is a huge bubble at this point. I'm sure that it is going to burst. We kind of saw it almost bursting with TikTok being banned. I mean, it was hysterical. All of these creators on TikTok, like, oh, my God, this is all going well. I'm not gonna be able to reach you. And while that was kind of, like, funny to watch, I also got it again because it was built on trust and relationships. They weren't just sad because they couldn't make their silly little videos. I mean, they were sad because, you know, financially something was going away, but more importantly, they were losing a platform that allowed them to connect with this community and build this community on a daily basis. So, you know, it might pop, it might continue to grow. Who knows, Maybe there will be a new form of fame and influence that grows from that bubble bursting. But as for traditional celebrities, I think what's next for them is actually going back to what worked before, to staying in their lane and focusing on their art and realizing that people like them for their art and the things that they create. Not necessarily because they're super relatable or really great on foreign policy and telling us about social justice issues. Like, I think they have become aware on that. Maybe it's the old Hollywood model where we really don't know a lot about these celebrities. We just know their projects and the things that they create and that's fine. Like, I actually think that Zendaya has done a great job at this. Like, we know now that she is engaged with Tom Holland, but she didn't post about that on her social media. She just, like, walked a red carpet with a ring on her finger, didn't include people in it. Like, we don't really know what her personal life is. Like, she's not posting about her beliefs or her political things. She does her movies, she goes home. I think that she. She bought a huge house that her parents live in now. Like, they all live there together. She very, very much cares about family and privacy. We know that, but we don't know the details. And she works like crazy. She is wildly famous, she is wildly wealthy at this point. She's so unproblematic in the best way. And honestly, if we're thinking about young Hollywood and young celebrities, you could say the same for Timothee Chalamet. He also works like crazy, but we don't really know much about his life or relationships other than when he goes on a press tour or, like, we see his personality, which is really fun. That comes out in like bits and pieces. Like he was randomly on college game day when he was promoting his new Bob Dylan movie, he went on Theo Vaughn and you get to see bits and pieces of his personality. But that is all through media, through organized podcasts. He's not just posting this online. We know nothing about his two year now relationship with Kylie Jenner. We didn't really know anything about his relationship with Lily Rosette. Like, he keeps all of that private. And it's so interesting to see the young celebrities doing that when the, you know, 30, 40 year old celebrities were desperately trying to jump on the influencer train. So maybe they are learning from what did not work with millennials. They're like, okay, now you cannot be influencers. Nobody wants to hear from you about politics or anything else, or about your bathtubs or anything that you're doing. So we're just gonna actually stay in our lane. And so my prediction and my genuine hope to the Hollywood gods is that unlike Gal Gadot and all of the lockdown, imagine cover celebrities, this next generation of celebrities, of the Hollywood stars, the musicians, they're not going to try to fake their relatability. And I guarantee we will love them more for it. I guarantee they will be far more successful by doing this.