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Cooper (Guest or Main Speaker) (13:36)

Ask your doctor about eglis and visit ebgliss.lilly.com or call 1-800-lilyrx or 1-800-545-5979. Back to the story now that I've shared all of my experiences, all of that being said, it would be very easy for me to sit here and talk about how these moms don't get it because they didn't know what sacrifices they were signing up for. They just need to get over it. Actually, it's really fulfilling. Actually, it's really empowering. These small problems like the mom talking about the Red Bull or the Blue Bull. Actually, it adds up to the biggest contribution you will ever make to the world, AKA raising a child. However, that is not really what these three mothers, in my opinion, are frustrated with or what these stories are actually about. And so me ripping into them. That would be futile in my opinion, for a woman that is struggling with postpartum anxiety and depression, who feels alone, maybe unsupported by their spouse and their families. You don't really just wanna hear it's really empowering and you don't get it. Like maybe actually we should be trying to solve the problem and one of the problems is who they married. But I hate to say it, but I do think we can kind of prevent these problems before they even arise. Because the common thread for these through women in the stories is not really that motherhood is just all inherently terrible, but it's that none of them, not one of them, actually wanted to have children in the first place, but they were encouraged to do so by their husbands and by their families. Okay, listen to these other excerpts from the article. So mom one when my husband and I were dating, his deal breaker was having kids. I didn't feel the same way, but I didn't see a life without children as an option. That was his deal breaker, not hers. Next Mom, I married young at 22, my husband couldn't wait to have a baby, but I told him I wanted to wait and enjoy our marriage. Then, in her late 20s, the baby plans went back into motion and fear hit me like a brick. Did I know what I was getting into? My mother, who had always wanted grandchildren and promised help, that's the mother that didn't wanna help at night and was too afraid to hold the baby, by the way, anyway. Then third mom my husband and I met in middle school. He was always interested in having a big family. I told him I wasn't quite sure. Unfortunately, it took me seeing a positive pregnancy test at 25 to realize that it was not for me. Okay, so what you have here are three women that, in different, varying degrees, didn't actually want this life. We're not sure, we're not prepared, we're not excited about the sacrifices that they and their bodies were going to be making, and then at the tail end, received very little support once they entered this period of their life. And all of this, it just pisses me off. Rather than actually helping or trying to have a conversation about that, one side of our culture just shames them for those feelings and then the other one exploits them publicly in the media for their own agenda. Now, thankfully, I did see a few people in the comments who did understand the point. Like one woman said, y', all, it's not the kids they don't care for. It is the brutal system in the weight of caring for and supporting children. In today's environment, women who do not have appropriate support or resources are struggling. And then Nurse Kate, this is Benny Johnson's wife, she said, this is the worst kind of propaganda. Hers was my favorite comment on the entire thread. It isn't the children. It is a society that rejects small children, forcing most parents to feel like they must isolate at home. Pieces such as this only exaggerate that feeling. And she's only hit on one part of it. Like, what about the postpartum depression? What about the lack of support? It's not just that society doesn't want to see the kids, but it's that nobody is helping. Like, if I was a woman who was not sure if I wanted to have kids and I read this article, it would not be the children themselves that would terrify me, it would be the loneliness and the lack of support, because that is what they were talking about. And it is incredibly well established how lonely modern mothers feel. Like, just look at these stats from 2025. Less than 18% of mothers feel fully supported. 70% feel like they are doing motherhood alone. 75% feel like they have less of a village than their mother's generation. 77% feel like they have less of a village than their grandmother's generation. But I'm sure it also doesn't help that, especially if you live in a very liberal cosmopolitan area, like I'm sure these mothers do, 30 years old, I'm guessing very liberal that so few of your friends also have children. So that can feel even more isolating. Even if your spouse wanted the baby and even if he is involved, like I'm. But your husband wanting to be a dad is not enough to carry you through. You have to be on board because it is a sacrifice. It is the most beautiful sacrifice, in my opinion, Vy will ever make. It is worth it to me every single day because it is so beautiful. But it is hard. It is a sacrifice that makes it all the more fulfilling. But still, you gotta be fully bought in now to tie this back to something going on in pop culture right now. All of this reminds me so much of one of the storylines from the current season of Love is Blind that is currently going viral right now. And it also has to do with a mother's regret and also not being sure if you want to have children. So for one of the pairings, Emma and mom, the big hurdle that they have had to overcome is whether or not they would want to have children if they actually got engaged. So, man, the mic is very serious about being a father. Like, they're in the pods. The whole premise of Love Is Blind if you don't know is that you don't see each other. You're like divided by a wall talking, you're dating, you decide who you want to marry after only like 10 days of being in these pods. Anyway, he's sitting in the pods talking to this girl, Emma, constantly talking about wanting to have children, wanting to be a dad. And the girl, Emma, for many various reasons, isn't sure, you know, she was adopted. She has had chronic health issues that she's worried about passing on. She doesn't know genetically what she's carrying. She's not sure if that's really the lifestyle she wants. She's just really all up in the air. She honestly seems like she has a lot that she's trying to work through. But just watch this clip.

Podcast Host (18:25)

I know a lot of people really want kids, but for me, I don't know yet.

Cooper (Guest or Main Speaker) (18:32)

I appreciate you being super honest with me about it.

Sponsor/Advertisement Voice (18:34)

Thank you.

Podcast Host (18:35)

I'm adopted. I do not Know my birth family or if they are going to pass down any medical problems that scares me about having a child. I've been raised by a white family. They're the best examples of love. But right now, I am not ready to disclose that. It's just something I don't think anyone can understand until they know who I am. Sometimes you don't even understand it yourself.

Cooper (Guest or Main Speaker) (19:06)

All right, so really, there is just a lot going on here. Like, first of all, I know that it is good tv, but people seriously need to see a therapist and get their lives together before airing it out on live TV or trying to find a husband in 10 days. I think these are the things you kind of need to figure out. Like, one commenter said, emma needed a therapist, not the show. Somebody else said, let's normalize healing before looking for love. She drained me. Anyway, the point is, even though this man really wants children and she is openly saying, I'm really not sure, they keep seeing each other. They go through the experiment, they get engaged. And throughout the entire process, this man, and I mean, more power to him, but he. He keeps trying to convince her to have kids, that she might actually want to be a mom. How amazing it's gonna be. Which is just a red flag. Not for him, but just for the situation. Like, somebody said he should have never picked her just based on the kid thing. Somebody else says, when a woman says she doesn't want kids, that is the end of the discussion forever. Go find one who does, Period. My mom always told me, I feel like all moms say this, but, like, do not marry a man with the intention of trying to change him. And the same goes for men. If a woman shows you and tells you what she values and what she wants out of life, believe her. And, like, having children is way too big of a decision to that gamble on. Lives are at stake, not just yours, because now you're gonna be dedicated to these children for the rest of your life, but because you are literally bringing life into the world. Innocent little beings that completely rely on you. So why take that gamble? It is way too big of a risk. Back to the point. This is where things really got interesting. This is the part of the story that really went viral. So after they got out of the pods, they got engaged. Emma took Mike to meet her adopted family. Now, again, at this point, they are already engaged, but they are still debating kids. And so Mike kind of gets into it with Emma's sister, who's there meeting him. She's a mom. He's kind of push, I think, hoping that she will encourage Emma. Like, hey, your sister's a mom. She loves it. Tell her how amazing it is. Now, I don't know if Emma's sister said all of this just to shut him up, maybe because she didn't want him pressuring Emma, or if she actually feels this way, but listen to what she said. This is the part of the show, probably out of the entire season, that went the most viral.

Podcast Host (20:59)

I'm somebody who grew up my whole life wanting to be a mom, and I have two kids, and I wake up some days, and I'm like, why did I like. This is. She said that she was the part you told them that.

Sponsor/Advertisement Voice (21:08)

I'm sure my rebuttal to that and my rebuttal to that is, do you regret it? And she said, no. And I said, then that's all you need.

Podcast Host (21:16)

I would say, though, if I lived another life, like, I don't regret having my children, and I love my children, but if I got to the end of my life and they said, you can do it again, I wouldn't have kids. Okay. Because there's. There's a beautiful thing about living a life for yourself, too.

Sponsor/Advertisement Voice (21:31)

Sure.

Podcast Host (21:32)

So my concern is, as somebody who wanted this and is currently living it and knows how hard it is if somebody chooses to have kids simply because they're trying to make a partner happy, that's one of the most terrifying thoughts, and especially for Emma. Like, I love her to death, and I would not be able to live with myself if I didn't say that.

Cooper (Guest or Main Speaker) (21:50)

Now, I watched that clip, guys, and when I saw the first thing she said, and my jaw dropped to the floor, like, I cannot imagine saying something so brazen publicly on television that your children will one day see. Now, needless to say, the Internet erupted. They were debating whether she was right to say that, whether that was kind or unkind, whether we're shaming. Shaming women for being honest, whatever it is. But that clip now, combined with this recent cut article, which coincidentally was released on International Women's Day, which just seems like the worst time to be shaming women. But it's created this entire frenzy over the idea of mothers regretting having children. And yes, Obviously, especially in 2026, there will be the outliers who genuinely do not like their children that wish they were getting drunk at brunch and traveling to Italy, whatever it may be. But for a lot of these women who are saying things like this, I think they're saying this because it is hard. It's beautiful. But it's hard and it is sacrificial. And I cannot imagine how I would feel if I was not 150% bought into being a mother and was having to do it alone, because it is just that hard. I just cannot even imagine how difficult that would be. And, like, this entire issue is so convoluted, and people on both the left and the right are just trying to make it out to be this black and white thing, like, mothers good, not mothers bad. Women who are struggling bad. I mean, it is just so ridiculous. And obviously it makes sense that the mainstream culture would not be offering, you know, ample support to moms because they shame moms. They tell women that they shouldn't be mothers, that it's actually patriarchal and oppressive. But then also, so much of the pronatalist right wing in America isn't helpful either. They spend their time nitpicking how women choose to do motherhood. They tell women that they've hit the wall and there's no hope for them once they've hit 30. They preach about supporting moms and how that needs to be our top priority. And then, spoiler alert, a lot of those companies barely offer maternity leave. Some of them even fire women for being pregnant. So maybe those folks should sit this conversation out. No wonder so many modern moms feel lonely. I mean, let's just, like, take stock at where we're at. You stay at home full time, half the country says you're oppressed and you're brainwashed. If you use daycare so you can work or you get a nanny, then you're abandoning your kids. If you struggle with motherhood and postpartum, you should have known better. Just toughen up. If you embrace motherhood joyfully, then you are a handmaiden. I mean, everybody is yelling at you like, that's just 2026 in a nutshell. Maybe, maybe, maybe it's not black and white, and maybe we should have some damn empathy. Maybe we should realize that every family, every mother, every baby is different. Maybe across the board, regardless of politics, we should do a better job of supporting families. Maybe we should do a better job of telling people not to compromise their values when finding a spouse. I mean, we've talked a lot about moms, almost exclusively moms in this episode. But what about the dads in this situation? Imagine if Emma and Mike actually did get married. She ended up regretting having the baby, didn't want to have children. Then what happens to Mike? Those three women in those stories, one of them is filing for divorce. One of them is wanting to give up custody to the father and just walk out. It is devastating all around. And all of this is the conversation that I wish the CUT had written about. I wish they had written about it because it's important and it's relevant. But it would be a much more complicated and touchy thing to write about, not I reject my children. I want to have a lazy Saturday morning. But why is this so hard? Why are we making this so hard? And why are we so alone in this? That would be a much harder story to write. It's very touchy, it's convoluted and it's polarizing, but that's actually a conversation that's important and is relevant. Now, one of the fellows at the Institute for Family Studies, where I actually spoke last spring, I believe in Virginia, they wrote a beautiful follow up to this article titled New Mothers who are Struggling Need Support, Not a Spotlight. And she wrote about the three mothers in that CUT article. She said on top of their mental health struggles, which they openly describe, they also had traumatic entries into motherhood. The first mother's baby had colic, which has a well documented short term impact on the mental health of mothers. The second mother had pre and postpartum pregnancy complications, which she described as so stressful I cried every day day. The third's body dysmorphia issues rendered her unable to leave the house. Frankly, their stories are tragic. They are also outliers, and publishing their narratives when they are clearly drowning in darkness and through one of the most difficult phases of parenthood seems outright abusive. Now this author then continues, and she says that she herself struggled with postpartum depression and anxiety and that she could not imagine what she as a mother, what she would have written if she had been asked to contribute to that article during that specific period of her life, what she would have said, what she would have wished for, what she would have made regretted, she says. Who knows what I would have said? But now, with nearly 14 years of motherhood and five children under my belt, I find myself very much in line with the recent Institute for Family Studies polling that finds that married mothers are the happiest cohort of women. I absolutely love being a mom and I find that my family, apart from my faith, is my greatest source of meaning and purpose. I'm so glad that I listened to the older mothers in my life who encouraged me through the difficult years, and I'm grateful to have avoided the toxic and antinatalist pitfalls that abound, which is what the cut is promoting truly helping young mothers does not look like exploiting their suffering for clicks, but rather pointing them to the reality that the hard work of mother will bear the fruits of lasting happiness. And that is how she ends her rebuttal. And I would agree with all of that. I've done a myriad of episodes about how happiness is really derived from purpose and meaning, and doing a hard thing is fulfilling. Overcoming that is fulfilling and brings joy. Which I think is why being a parent and having a child and going through that hard thing is the epitome of joy and fulfillment. But I would also say that something you could do to help mothers is giving them the tools to actually help them thrive and overcome and get through that. Because in a postpartum fog with depression and anxiety and injury, again, the wound that is this big in your stomach, some women might not be able to see that yet. And so if we want to encourage big, happy families and truly be a pro natalist country, which I think Donald Trump wants, I think most people want, we have to be pro mother and not just pro baby. And being pro mother is a lot harder and requires a lot more work on our part.

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