MS NOW Exclusive | Hope Comes Home: Inside the Obama Presidential Center - Part 2

Summary

The Briefing with Jen Psaki

MS NOW Exclusive | Hope Comes Home: Inside the Obama Presidential Center - Part 2

June 20, 2026

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Overview

This episode, hosted by Michelle Norris (substituting for Jen Psaki), provides an in-depth exploration of the newly inaugurated Obama Presidential Center on Chicago’s South Side. The episode features President Barack Obama and former First Lady Michelle Obama, offering personal reflections on the center’s significance, the South Side community, and the Obamas' vision to uplift the area while addressing the complexities of investment and inclusion. The episode also delves into memorable exhibits, community impact, and intimate family moments that shape the center’s narrative.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Chicago’s Cultural Legacy and The South Side’s History

[01:03–05:34]

• Michelle Norris sets the stage by highlighting Chicago's role as a crucible of American culture, music, and ambition.
• Emphasis on the South Side, a place of both community strength and historic hardship.
• Immigration and The Great Migration are acknowledged, with Norris referencing her own family roots in Bronzeville.
• Norris notes the historical underinvestment in the South Side, drawing a stark contrast between the resources available "in the front yard" (downtown) and the "backyard" (South Side).

“Chicago has a great front yard... but the backyard, he would say, needs some work.”
— Michelle Norris [03:10]

2. Why The Obama Presidential Center Is On The South Side

[05:34–08:24]

• The Obamas intentionally chose the South Side for the Center to catalyze economic growth and create opportunities for underserved communities.
• Concerns about gentrification are addressed:
  • Recognition that large investments lead to rising property values.
  • The Obama Foundation prioritizes local hiring, vendor selection, internships, and engagement with community groups to ensure benefits are shared.

“The question is... are we making sure that the people who are already there can get a piece of that rising tide?”
— Obama Center Representative [06:41]

3. Michelle Obama’s Personal Reflections On Community & Change

[08:24–11:41]

• Michelle Obama details her upbringing during the era of white flight and gradual disinvestment.
• As a child, she experienced a vibrant, mixed-race neighborhood, but recalls how community resources dwindled.
• Contrasts the vibrancy of the downtown with the neglect of the South Side.

“It was here, but it wasn’t here.”
— Michelle Obama [11:30]

“When something like this opens... an $850 million investment, that says something. That says you count. It’s supposed to say something.”
— Michelle Norris & Michelle Obama [11:47–11:54]

4. Celebrating Michelle Obama’s Story and Impact

[13:36–16:09]

• The new branch of the Chicago Public Library at the Center features 3,000 of President Obama’s favorite books—including Michelle’s memoir Becoming.
• Michelle’s legacy is integrated throughout the museum: speeches, memorabilia, and initiatives (e.g., White House garden, child-focused programs).
• The “sledding hill” was her idea, addressing a childhood wish for Southside children.

“Michelle Obama was more than a style icon, more than a best-selling author, more than just Barack Obama’s wife. She was an integral part of the Obama White House with her own initiatives, her own fans and her own critics.”
— Museum Narrator [14:40]

5. The Portrait Unveiling & Family Legacy

[16:09–20:26]

• Michelle Obama discusses the emotional unveiling of the first joint portrait of her and Barack, painted by Njideka Crosby, which features meaningful nods to family history.
• The portrait includes images of Michelle’s childhood home and a special scene with Michelle’s mother, Marian Robinson, on election night.
• Michelle’s inaugural skirt displayed Marian’s image, symbolizing bringing along loved ones and ancestors.

“Where’s Waldo for the Obama administration... in the windows upstairs, it’s the image of Barack and my mom sitting on the sofa the night of the election when his name was called.”
— Michelle Obama [16:51–17:45]

“You will walk through these halls and you will feel seen here.”
— Michelle Obama [20:26]

6. Redefining Strength and Leadership—Masculinity and Vulnerability

[21:32–25:43]

• Discussion of Barack Obama’s willingness to express emotion—rare among male and Black leaders, and especially among presidents.
• Michelle Obama reflects on societal expectations for men, urging broader definitions of masculinity.

“I don’t think we’ve done equal justice to opening the aperture for what our men and boys can be.”
— Michelle Obama [22:36]

“That’s really what makes you a man, is the broadness and depth of your character... How will boys know that if they don’t see it?”
— Michelle Obama [24:50]

7. Legacy, Representation, and The Power of ‘We’

[26:08–28:32]; [42:46–44:12]

• Michelle Obama hopes their portrait and presence represent “a loving representation of a Black couple” and inspire recognition that excellence is not defined by race, income, or pedigree.
• Emphasis on partnership, equality, and the notion that every person's story is part of the greater American story.

“There are many people who are great leaders... your race, your income, is the least of what makes you great.”
— Michelle Obama [26:18]

• Norris closes with references to President Obama’s “We are America” speech and the power of the word “we,” as inscribed on the Center.

“The single most powerful word in our democracy is the word we.”
— Barack Obama [43:55]

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Notable Quotes & Moments

The Interactive Mural and Community Participation

[35:47–38:12]

• The museum hosts a participatory mural by Jules Julian: visitors add their name as a dot, symbolizing their place in America’s story.
• Norris notes the contemplative space as “a Zen-like environment... so calming.” [36:02]

“It's a symbolic representation of what it means to participate in a democracy, that progress is not promised, but must be won through collective action, pushing forward, rising together.”
— Museum Narrator [37:42]

Oval Office Letters Exhibit

[38:27–41:36]

• Obama highlights the Office of Correspondence, which sent him ten letters nightly from the public.
• The museum features a display and video of these heartfelt missives.

“People are really raw on their emotions in some of these letters... It’s almost like a meditation for them.”
— Obama Presidential Center Representative [39:38]

“As much as anything, [this exhibit] captures what I always hoped the spirit of my presidency was... a sense of generosity towards each other, a sense that everybody counts and everybody matters.”
— Obama Presidential Center Representative [41:07, 41:42]

Speed Round: Behind the Scenes at the Center

[29:55–33:34]

• President Obama tested many of the museum chairs—comfort for all visitors was a priority.
• His favorite dish at Tafari’s Kitchen (named after the late presidential chef) is chili, based on his own recipe.
• “Obamalisk” nickname for the main building is met with good humor.

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Important Timestamps

• [01:03] – Michelle Norris introduces the episode, sets the scene for Chicago’s cultural and social legacy.
• [05:34] – Discussion on choosing the South Side for the Obama Presidential Center, investment vs. gentrification.
• [08:24] – Michelle Obama’s reflections on growing up in the neighborhood.
• [13:36] – The library, Michelle’s influence, and “Becoming.”
• [16:09] – Emotional impact and symbolism of the Obamas' joint portrait.
• [21:32] – Leadership, masculinity, and vulnerability—broader lessons.
• [26:08] – The legacy of representation—what their portrait stands for.
• [31:08] – Hidden gems in the museum; 'Democracy 101' exhibit.
• [38:27] – The letters exhibit; Obama’s thoughts on the spirit of his presidency.
• [42:46] – Norris and the Obamas close with a meditation on the word “we” and collective citizenship.

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Overall Tone

The episode balances warmth, candor, and inspiration, reflecting the Obamas’ personal investment in their home community. The language is accessible, sometimes intimate, and the tone is equal parts hopeful, reflective, and purposeful.

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Usefulness for Listeners

This episode offers both behind-the-scenes insights into the making of the Obama Presidential Center and nuanced discussions about race, identity, leadership, and the meaning of legacy. Grounded in personal narrative and community, the conversation reinforces the Center’s mission: to make everyone—regardless of background—feel seen, included, and empowered to shape America’s story.

Transcript

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[Barack Obama]

Thank you so much, United States. We are America created equal.

[Michelle Norris]

Welcome back to Hope Comes Home. Inside the Obama Presidential Center, I'm Michelle Norris. This hour we will take you further into the brand new Obama Presidential Center. We'll hear more from President Obama and we will hear from first lady Michelle Obama. We sat down for an interview right here on the south side of Chicago, where she grew up and where the Obamas are bringing their legacy home. Chicago is a city that gets up in the morning and goes hard all day. Ambition, creativity, community, sweet home, chocolate. The hope that all that hard work pays off. Oprah Winfrey was born in Mississippi, but she became a media titan in Chicago.

[Michelle Obama]

Everybody gets a car.

[Michelle Norris]

Same for Muddy Waters, who then helped Buddy Guy. When Ferris Bueller played hooky, he went to downtown Chicago. The question isn't what are we going to do? The question is what aren't we going to do? Film, architecture, science, music. Oh, so much music.

[Obama Presidential Center Staff/Representative]

We wish you love, peace and

[Michelle Norris]

soul Train got its start here. This is a city that gifted the world with Nat King Cole, Sam Cooke, Lou Rawls, and Ramsey Lewis. Let's not forget Jeff Tweedy, Billy Corgan, Eddie Vedder, Herbie Hancock, Quincy Jones, Ain't

[Michelle Obama]

Nobody Nobody,

[Michelle Norris]

Shaka and Mavis, Kanye and Chance the Rapper. There's not a chance we could name them all. There are just too many. You see, Chicago has always been a cauldron for culture. The blues, the Bulls.

[Michelle Obama]

Here's Jordan.

[Michelle Norris]

He was all on the Bear and the Bears. The Bears writers Sandra Cisneros and Studs Terkel. Dan Aykroyd and all those stars from the Second City comedy troupe, the ones who made Saturday Night Live sparkle and pop. Chicago the City Beget Chicago the Musical Let all that child. The Windy City has long been a jewel on the shores of Lake Michigan, a big and shiny magnet for waves of newcomers looking for a better life. Immigrants from Poland, Ireland and Latvia, from Mexico and China. Seekers trading small towns for big city life. Refugees fleeing oppression in the Jim Crow South. In the Great Migration, hundreds of thousands of black Americans headed north and poured into Chicago's south side, striving for a better future. Thousands, including my father and his five brothers. When they first landed in Chicago, they all lived together not far from what is now the Obama Presidential center, in a neighborhood known as Bronzeville. A black president in their lifetime was not a possibility. My dad used to say that Chicago has a great front yard, with the power and prosperity concentrated in those gleaming skyscrapers along the lake downtown. But the backyard, he would say, needs some work. He loved Chicago, especially Bronzeville, but he understood something essential about the city's south side. Along with the solid institutions and one of America's largest black middle class populations, the south side has also seen its share of hardship. Poverty, gang violence, underperforming schools, and under resourced public housing. The new presidential center sits across the street from a striving public school that lost a student this year to gunplay. The Obamas could have located their campus closer to downtown Chicago, a focal point for tourists from all over the world. But they came back to the south side, back to the place where they raised their daughters, where Michelle Obama grew up, with the goal of changing the footprint and the fortunes of the south side with new jobs, new visitors, and yes, new pressures from gentrification. For the Obamas, choosing the south side is an expression of hope that sweet home Chicago can not just handle all of that, but thrive. Let me ask you about the neighborhood. It's in the south side, on the south side, on Stoney island, right? A street that is too often in the news for sometimes the wrong reasons. What does it mean to place this center in a place that doesn't usually see this kind of investment?

[Obama Presidential Center Staff/Representative]

Well, part of what we want to do is to recognize this is a big investment, and it can potentially help anchor and catalyze economic development and opportunities for communities that oftentimes have been left behind.

[Michelle Norris]

Now, are you worried about displacement, though? I mean, Airbnb rates are going up, rents are going up. You know what, do you have a plan to monitor or mitigate the kinds of things that can happen with gentrification.

[Obama Presidential Center Staff/Representative]

Well, look, this is always going to be. There's nobody's figured out this solution right perfectly, which is, hey, these communities are under invested in and they're poor and there aren't enough businesses and opportunities. And then people make investments in their businesses opportunities. Hey, wait a minute. Rents are going up and the tax base is going up and Airbnb rates go up. There's no way to. Make massive investments, bring about a bunch of tourism dollars and create greater interest and beautify communities and not also see some values rise. That's part of the purpose of it. The question is always from our perspective, are we making sure that the people who are already there can get a piece of that rising tide? Can they access those opportunities? Which is why in terms of employment at the Presidential center, one of our biggest priorities was making sure that folks were able to not just apply for jobs, but actually get jobs and get trained for jobs. The young people who are living in those communities, are they going to be able to get internships and fellowships? And we're exposing them to the work that's being done and what opportunities they have as a consequence. The vendors, you know, the cleaning crews, the contractors, all those folks, we've been very systematic about working with community groups in those communities and saying to them, this is yours, not just ours, and we want you to be a part of this. And I think there will, over time, the kind of community improvement that is not just bringing in people from the outside, but also lifting up folks from the inside. That's our hope.

[Michelle Norris]

It is the hope, not just for President obama, but for Mrs. Obama as well. Of the two of them, she is the one who actually grew up on the south side. We're on the south side of Chicago.

[Michelle Obama]

We are home.

[Michelle Norris]

And I want to talk to you about the south side. And I invite you to correct me if I'm not saying it right, because I lived in Chicago. I have all kinds of relatives who are on the south side, but I've lived on the south side. And there's a particular way of saying it.

[Michelle Obama]

Oh, well, it just depends on the mood, you know, if you really calling out it's south side, you know, but otherwise. That's exactly right. Otherwise it's the south side.

[Audience Member/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Michelle Norris]

Well, I want to talk to you about the south side.

[Michelle Obama]

What do you want to know?

[Michelle Norris]

This, you know, incredible complex lands here, right on the south side of Chicago where you grew up. What does it mean to you? What does it mean to your community to have this Level of investment in the place where a young Michelle Lavon Robinson grew up. Yeah, did double dutch. Well, let me bike around this area.

[Michelle Obama]

Let me give you a. A sense of what the community was like when I was growing up. You know, I was born in the 60s, I think my parents moved from a little further south to 74th and Euclid with my Aunt Robbie when I was 1. So my adolescent years were in the 70s, and that was at the beginning of white flight. So this community that we moved into was a mixed race community. And it was people of all backgrounds and races. People planted their flowers and mowed their lawns. My uncle Terry mowed his lawn where kids played outside and there were block club parties. But you could slowly see the slow deterioration of the entire south side. Stores that were closing down. You know, the park programs just kind of went away. You just slowly notice that the stuff wasn't there anymore. And I think as I got older and started leaving my community, especially when I went to high school, which was a magnet high school on the west side.

[Michelle Norris]

You went to Whitney Young?

[Michelle Obama]

Went to Whitney Young. My commute took me more and more through downtown and over west. And, you know, we were cultured. You know, we went to museums, we did things like that. But I started noticing that the investments downtown were very different. You know, that in order to do or see or experiencing anything beyond what you knew, you had to get on a bus or pay for parking or, you know, take the L and go to a whole nother community to experience beautiful parks and to really enjoy the lake and to see art and to see culture. It was here, but it wasn't here. All right?

[Michelle Norris]

I think they call that disinvestment.

[Michelle Obama]

It's disinvestment.

[Michelle Norris]

So when something like this opens and there really is nothing else like this, and you decide to make an investment

[Michelle Obama]

in a community like this, an $850 million investment, that says something.

[Michelle Norris]

Yeah, that says something. That says you count.

[Michelle Obama]

It's supposed to say something.

[Michelle Norris]

Hope comes home Inside the Obama Presidential center continues after this.

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[Michelle Norris]

In the new branch of the Chicago Public Library. President Obama has chosen 3,000 of his favorite books to fill up the shelf of his presidential reading room. Books from celebrated authors like Jill Lepore and Haruki Murakami and Isabel Wilkerson. And of course, one very particular author

[Museum Narrator]

the President knows quite well.

[Michelle Norris]

Favorite book in the new library must be Becoming. Smart Answer.

[Obama Presidential Center Staff/Representative]

What are you talking about?

[Michelle Norris]

Of course, of course. Very Smart answer.

[Museum Narrator]

Becoming is the memoir written by Michelle

[Michelle Norris]

Obama about growing up on the south

[Museum Narrator]

side of Chicago, not far from the present center.

[Michelle Norris]

The former first lady has star power

[Museum Narrator]

of her own and her emergence on the global stage is also captured in the museum. The display of some of her standout dresses and gowns has already become a favorite with visitors.

[Michelle Norris]

So here is what President Obama refers to as the exhibit everybody wants to see.

[Museum Narrator]

But let's be clear. Michelle Obama was more than a style icon, more than a best selling author, more than just Barack Obama's wife. She was an integral part of the Obama White House with her own initiatives, her own fans and her own critics. Her presence at this museum is not an afterthought. Her memorabilia is not pushed into a corner of the museum somewhere. Her role in the White House is woven throughout the larger story. All over the campus you will hear her voice and her most famous speeches as you walk through the museum that

[Michelle Obama]

the American Dream endures.

[Museum Narrator]

You can see her gardening glove from her days planting fruits and vegetables on the White House grounds, a miniature recreation of the time she hosted a Girl Scout camp on the South Lawn. The museum explores her upbringing on the south side and her accomplishments at Princeton and Harvard. At the restaurant on campus, you can order the red rice that's based on her mother's recipe, the sledding hill. That was the first lady's idea, she insisted, so Southside kids today could fulfill one of her girlhood dreams. She had always wished that the pancake flat prairie terrain of Chicago had hills for sledding during those long Chicago winters. Above all, the Obama Presidential center examines the former first lady as an intellectual partner with an interior life and a legacy worth preserving, because Michelle Obama is no one's second fiddle.

[Michelle Norris]

When you got the first look of the portrait of the two of you, it's the first time that you're both in a portrait together.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah.

[Michelle Norris]

And they called into Jeca Crosby, let's give her her flowers. We got to see you see it for the first time. The video was released and your expression was priceless.

[Michelle Obama]

Oh, what was it?

[Michelle Norris]

I mean, you were just like wide eyed. And partly because it's a beautiful piece of art, I imagine you were surprised at the size.

[Michelle Obama]

It is beautiful. Was there anything that surprised you?

[Michelle Norris]

It's not just your story. It's probably going to be a choke point in the museum because you see so many different images in there.

[Michelle Obama]

That's also the artist approach, which is why I love Indigeka the artist. All of her paintings are paintings within paintings, pictures and images within. When you step back and see the bigger image and then slowly get closer and see the power of all the selections of images that. And where she placed them and why she placed them there, I mean, it's like, where's Waldo for the Obama administration, you know? So, for example, she decided to put in the backdrop a window that has my childhood home. And in the windows upstairs, it's the image of Barack and my mom sitting on the sofa the night of the election when his name was called. It is a very powerful image where, you know, mom, she's just got the kind of, oh, my goodness, it happened

[Michelle Norris]

back in the sofa.

[Michelle Obama]

And she just reaches over to him and says, oh, my baby. She's bit off a big thing, you know, and it's that kind of look, but it kind of frames. It's like the center of the home and the center of the portrait.

[Michelle Norris]

And they're in two different windows upstairs, you see, and their hand is in one of the windows. I'm glad you brought her into this conversation.

[Barack Obama]

Mom.

[Michelle Norris]

I loved your mom. Yeah, she was a Beautiful woman.

[Michelle Obama]

She was something else.

[Michelle Norris]

And you brought her along for the journey in a very beautiful way. I remember on the morning of the inauguration, and so many people were coming, wearing pictures, literally pictures pinned to their coat, bringing someone along, holding pictures in plastic baggies, you know, bringing them there for Inauguration Day, bringing people along who couldn't make it all the way for the journey. That is what you did with that beautiful skirt that you wore with a beautiful image of a young Marian Robinson. What a way to honor your mom.

[Michelle Obama]

Well, everybody in our lives was touched by Mom. It broke Barack down because I. You know, he didn't. He hadn't seen the scene.

[Michelle Norris]

You had to cover for him for a while.

[Michelle Obama]

I know, right, right.

[Michelle Norris]

I mean, you kept talking because you gave him a moment to.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah, yeah. So when I walked in, I met him backstage, and he was like, ugh. And I forgot what I was there. He was like, what's going on? He was like, you're not doing that to me. Right? You just showed up in this beautiful skirt. I had already sort of recovered, so I was like, oh, I'm sorry. You know, it was like, my bad. I had gotten sort of emotionally accustomed to the beauty of it.

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Right.

[Michelle Obama]

So to me, it was just a beautiful dress, too. Beautiful skirt. So, yeah, I kind of did him wrong. I should have prepped him for it. But it was also a beautiful surprise. My brother was. I think he was in the shooting. Had he seen it before? Nobody had seen it.

[Michelle Norris]

Oh, it must have got to him, too.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah, it got to everybody. But as you said, it's. You know, I was so glad to have her there with us. And then my team, while we were speaking on stage, they said that the minute Barack mentioned the skirt, it downpoured like, it was clear. Because afterwards they said, oh, it rained so hard. I was like, I didn't hear the rain. They said it rained right when Barack was talking about the skirt, and it stopped.

[Michelle Norris]

The ancestors, she was there.

[Michelle Obama]

She's like, go on, girl. She's like, aren't you something? You know what mom would say? She'd be like, oh, I can't believe this. Oh, you're just something else. So she's here, as are all of our ancestors, and not just me and Barack, the stories of our upbringing. But I think that's what resonates, and what will resonate for people of all backgrounds is they will see themselves in these floors. America will see itself. And I'm saying all of America, regardless of political party, regardless of whether you voted for us or, like, us. Or have nasty things to say about us or not. Or love us. You will walk through these halls and you will feel seen here.

[Michelle Norris]

We saw something of your husband in that encounter also. It was a full circle moment because you reached out and grabbed his hand the way your mother had grabbed his on election night. Yes, I did.

[Kiana]

I saw it.

[Michelle Norris]

I noticed it. And we saw his emotions. And he is someone who is free with his emotions. And you don't always see that. Okay, let me just spin backwards. You don't see it in a man. If I can get really granular. You often don't see it in a

[Michelle Obama]

black man because you're not supposed to. They're not supposed to be emotional.

[Michelle Norris]

And you don't see it in a president. Yeah, but you do with him. So what does it mean to have someone in leadership who is willing to show their emotions? And in this process, are we seeing another facet of him?

[Michelle Obama]

Well, you know, we're in the. We're at a time when there's a lot of talk about what it means to be a man. You know, it's all out there. There's a lot of mansplaying going on. And what you feel in those conversations is. What we understand is that men struggle just as much as we do in figuring out who they are and where to find place. And I've said this time and time again, I don't have sons. You do. I know a lot of my friends, sons. I love these young men. But we've done a great job in our lifetime of expanding the possibilities of what women and girls can be. We've worked hard to redefine that and to say, you. You know, you can take home the bacon, fry it up in a pan, right? You can do it all. You can be a mom. You can. You can have emotion. You can be tough. You can box, you can run. You can be strong, right? You can be a musician. But during that time, I don't think we've done an equal justice to opening the aperture for what our men and boys can be. We've talked about this. There's still a very narrow definition of what it means to be a man. And it's still gotta win. Gotta be tough.

[Michelle Norris]

Gotta be strong.

[Michelle Obama]

Gotta be strong. Don't let them see you hurt. Gotta, you know, you gotta make money. You know, Gotta dominate. Gotta dominate, right? But men come in all shapes, sizes and colors, too. Temperament, we're born with it. You know, it's not unique to us as the female species. You know, there are a lot of young men who are born to create, like my father, who was tough and boxed and all that before he got Ms. There are young men who were born to nurture, to be teachers, to work with small children. There are young men who are wonderful child psychiatrists, you know, who can empathize and help people find their voice, Right? But if all they're rewarded for is win, throw the ball, catch the ball, beat up, make money, wow, how sad it is for all the majority of men and boys who don't naturally fall into that, those narrow categories of what being a man is and how sad and lonely that must be for them. So I think having leaders that model more matter, you know, And I know that Barack understands that. He's a tough guy. He doesn't cry much. But I think he has learned to let his emotions go because he knows he needs to show young men that that's okay, too. It's okay to love your wife forever. It's okay not to cheat and lie. It's okay not to be a baller. It's okay to, you know, be sad when sad things happen, you know, and not have to suck it up all the time. That that's really what makes you a man, is the broadness and depth of your character. And it's not just one note. And how will boys know that if they don't see it?

[Michelle Norris]

I want to go back to the portrait of the two of you. That image will be in this building for a very long time. 10 years from now, 25 years from now, 50 years from now, into the next century, when people are looking back at the image of the two of

[Kiana]

you,

[Michelle Norris]

what do you want them to see? What do you want them to remember?

[Michelle Obama]

I want them to see a loving representation of a black couple. And it is important that race is there because we have an ebb and flow of how we feel about people of different races. Some decades we are moving forward, and other decades it feels like, well, what happened? I think we need to be reminded that excellence comes in all shapes, sizes and colors, genders. That there are many people who are great leaders. And your race, your income, is the least of what makes you great. Your pedigree is the least of what makes you great. And the co equanimity of our relationship, I think, is important to remember at a time when gender roles are. They go up and down too, you know, what does it mean to be a woman? What does it mean to be a wife or a husband? That they see a couple that are. That revel in the fact that we are both equals, that that's what gives us energy and that there's love there. Deep, deep love. And I like the notion that even that story is a creation of many smaller stories that we didn't get. Where we are alone. Like there are two people, but there are millions of people who make up that story. So I think that the structure of the photo of the portrait is just as important as the image. That it's the two of us. That the two of us are made up of millions and millions of stories and people and experiences outside of who we are. There are men like that all over the place. I happen to marry one of them and I am grateful for it.

[Michelle Norris]

We've got more coming up. Stay with us.

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[Michelle Norris]

I think we should call a doctor,

[Obama Presidential Center Staff/Representative]

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[Barack Obama]

We are all creative.

[Michelle Norris]

I want to do a speed round.

[Obama Presidential Center Staff/Representative]

Okay.

[Michelle Norris]

I want to pepper you with a few questions that will allow us to go inside the museum itself.

[Obama Presidential Center Staff/Representative]

Okay.

[Michelle Norris]

I've heard that you've tested every chair in the building.

[Obama Presidential Center Staff/Representative]

I'm not sure I've tested every chair, but I've tested a lot of them.

[Michelle Norris]

I just have this image of you running around sitting on all the chairs.

[Barack Obama]

You know what?

[Obama Presidential Center Staff/Representative]

I'm a big believer in like, stuff being comfortable because so much of the stuff inside is. Is beautifully designed and meticulous and all this. My attitude was, yeah, but if a young mom with three kids that she's been dragging around through this museum and her feet hurt and she now is sitting down, is it comfortable? No matter how pretty it is,

[Michelle Norris]

is

[Obama Presidential Center Staff/Representative]

she getting a break?

[Michelle Norris]

Were any of the chairs replaced?

[Obama Presidential Center Staff/Representative]

Yes.

[Michelle Norris]

Oh, really? Okay.

[Obama Presidential Center Staff/Representative]

I'm not gonna say who, but there were a couple where I was all like, you know, this looks great until you sit up.

[DSW Announcer]

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[Obama Presidential Center Staff/Representative]

Yeah.

[Michelle Norris]

Is there a hidden jewel in the museum, almost like an Easter egg that you worry people will miss? Something that you're really proud of, but you're afraid that people will?

[Obama Presidential Center Staff/Representative]

This is actually not a hidden jewel. It is, but people may miss it. There is an entire room, a display that we're calling Democracy 101, that is away from some of the flashier. Kind of in a corner office. It's in a corner, and it just gives people sort of a primer on the Constitution and the First Amendment, and I'm really proud of that. I'm hoping people go through that, because I think I worked pretty closely with the exhibit designers in creating a space where a layperson who's not studying this stuff all the time can just kind of go in and get a sense of. All right, I have a pretty good idea about what all these arguments are about, and I'm hoping that especially kids, but adults as well, take that in, because I think it's done really well.

[Michelle Norris]

Now that you've said it, I think people are actually going to look for it. There is a restaurant on site named for Tafari Campbell.

[Obama Presidential Center Staff/Representative]

Yes.

[Michelle Norris]

Wonderful.

[Obama Presidential Center Staff/Representative]

Who you knew?

[Michelle Norris]

Yes, I knew and miss him dearly. Wonderful person who was your personal chef for many years. Man, could he cook.

[Obama Presidential Center Staff/Representative]

He could.

[Michelle Norris]

I mean, he was the best. He was special. And there is a restaurant that serves wonderful food. What is your favorite dish at Tafari's kitchen?

[Obama Presidential Center Staff/Representative]

I have to say it's actually the chili. I can't give Tefari credit for this one because this is based on my own chili recipe, so I may be a little bit biased.

[Michelle Norris]

People are like, wait, he cooks well,

[Obama Presidential Center Staff/Representative]

not anymore, but there was a time, and it's pretty good chili.

[Michelle Norris]

Really?

[Obama Presidential Center Staff/Representative]

With some cornbread with it.

[Angie.com Customer]

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[Michelle Norris]

All right.

[Obama Presidential Center Staff/Representative]

I give it two thumbs up.

[Ro Advertisement Announcer]

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[Michelle Norris]

What kind of beans do you use?

[Obama Presidential Center Staff/Representative]

You know what? I'm gonna let you go ahead.

[Michelle Norris]

Okay. You have some.

[Obama Presidential Center Staff/Representative]

Traditionally, I'm a kidney bean guy, but check it out, see what you think.

[Michelle Norris]

I will do that. Your critics have called the Affordable Care Act Obamacare, and it was meant to be a sort of derisive name. And you embraced it. Yeah, I did that. So they're calling this the main building, the Obamaless. Will you embrace that, too?

[Obama Presidential Center Staff/Representative]

That's fine. I think that what I'm interested in is seeing how people respond when they visit. I appreciate architecture enough to know that it'll be 20 years before we have a sense of how the architecture fits into people's imaginations and whether it lasts or not. But what you can know right away is that people enjoy being there, right? And if, as it seems so far, they do. If people feel excited by the space and inspired by the space, and it's usable and it's fun, and kids are in the playground and folks who are going through the museum are absorbing good energy and feel like, you know what, maybe I can go out there and do something too. And they get to the Sky Room, they look around and see a panorama of Chicago and their own neighborhood that they've never seen before. And community groups are having meetings there, and folks are using a recording studio to film their own podcasts or make their own videos. And kids are sitting in that public library and reading and excited about reading. If all that stuff's happening, then we will have achieved what we're trying to achieve.

[Michelle Norris]

We've got more coming up. Stay with us. After you make your way through the

[Museum Narrator]

museum, after you've marinated in the story

[Michelle Norris]

of our nation's founding contradiction, the struggle

[Museum Narrator]

for an inclusive multiracial democracy, and the ongoing fight to keep it, the museum brings you here to this contemplative space.

[Michelle Norris]

The graphics, the muted colors, it's a Zen like environment. I mean, it's so calming.

[Museum Narrator]

Where visitors are encouraged to take a

[Michelle Norris]

breath, take a beat, maybe even take a seat, and then place their own

[Museum Narrator]

name inside America's ongoing story, we imagine

[L]

that we are each a dot that can be added to this collective. And so you see how we are all dots coming together to make change.

[Museum Narrator]

The space is designed for participation. Visitors become part of this interactive artwork by Jules Julian, who creates floating landscapes

[Michelle Norris]

made up of dots.

[Museum Narrator]

Thousands of dots, all individually drawn. They float along the wall and then come together to form little vignettes of everyday American life.

[Michelle Norris]

A group of runners, two women from

[Museum Narrator]

different generations, trees and clouds floating by hands, coming together into that same shape

[Michelle Norris]

that inspired the very shape of this building.

[Museum Narrator]

And some of these dots actually come from you as you imagine your impact, and then make a commitment to turn ideas into action.

[L]

You can then make your own kind of pledge by adding your name and it transfers to the mural. So you can see your name. Wendy.

[Michelle Norris]

We see here and their name.

[L]

Make him appear, Channing.

[Michelle Norris]

And you can add your own name

[Michelle Obama]

and then see it here appear.

[L]

But the idea is you've become a part of this collective. But again, you've taken in so much information throughout the museum, and this is a moment that's really ambient and engaging and inspiring and contemplative. Very contemplative.

[Museum Narrator]

Type in your name and then watch it pop up on screen next to a brand new dot. You can then watch your very own dot float along and then join the rest. It's a symbolic representation of what it means to participate in a democracy, that progress is not promised, but must be won through collective action, pushing forward, rising together. In that sense, this part of the museum is a full circle moment, reaching back to the farewell address that President

[Michelle Norris]

Obama delivered just up the road from

[Museum Narrator]

here when he made a final request of the nation he led for eight years.

[Michelle Norris]

I'm asking you to believe not in

[Barack Obama]

my ability to bring about change, but in yours.

[Michelle Norris]

You've been through the campus many times. What's the exhibit that still gets you every single time?

[Obama Presidential Center Staff/Representative]

I've talked about this. Right outside the Oval Office, we have a display of a sampling of the 10 letters that I used to receive every night. I think we got something like 40,000 pieces of correspondence every day, every day for eight years during, while I was in the White House. And we had an entire letter correspondence office just responding to the public's letters. And that Office would select 10 representative letters for me to read each day. They'd put in my folder at the top of my briefing book. And I'd usually save those for after I was finished with reading all the stuff I had to read. And I initiated that as a way of staying in touch with people, especially early on when we were going through so many difficult decisions. And so there's a display that has a sampling of those letters. But the exhibition team made this wonderful short video, this vignette of a few of those letters. And whenever I watch those, because it's mother talking about Mr. President, I'm struggling. And it's a vet who's still trying to find his path after he's no longer serving. And people are really raw on their emotions in some of these letters, partly because they don't expect the President's actually going to read it. It's almost like a meditation for them, a way of getting stuff off their chest. And so whenever I watch that, I get kind of.

[Michelle Norris]

Yeah, I can see that.

[Obama Presidential Center Staff/Representative]

Yeah, I get choked up.

[Michelle Norris]

You're getting a little.

[Obama Presidential Center Staff/Representative]

Yeah. So choked up. Now, if there's one exhibit that people should take the time right after the Oval Office, which everybody will go to, just so they can take a picture of the apples and everything else that might be in there.

[Michelle Norris]

Sit in your chair.

[Obama Presidential Center Staff/Representative]

Sit in the chair. Just come around on the side and there'll be those letters and there'll be a video that's looping. And take the time to watch that, because I think that as much as anything captures what I always hoped the spirit of my presidency was, and the

[Michelle Norris]

spirit of your presidency was.

[Obama Presidential Center Staff/Representative]

A sense of generosity towards each other, a sense of that everybody counts and everybody matters. And that when we act on that basic presumption, when we extend grace to each other, when we're willing to fight for that idea without sacrificing. A recognition of the humanity of those that we're fighting against, if we can manage that, even if it's messy and not always perfect, then I think this country does well and the world does better.

[Michelle Norris]

More coming up after this break. Thank you all for joining us tonight for HOPE comes home inside the Obama Presidential Center.

[Michelle Obama]

And I want to leave you tonight

[Michelle Norris]

with one final thought. The speech that wraps around the building you see behind me is from President Obama's you are America speech, the one he delivered at the 50th anniversary of the march across the bridge in selma back in 2015. And in those remarks, he focused on one word, the word that in his view, is the most important in the Constitution. He was talking about the word we. We, the people. We shall overcome. Yes, we can. A word that ideally should stand as an invitation to everyone.

[Michelle Obama]

You are America, unconstrained by habit and

[Barack Obama]

convention, unencumbered by what is.

[Michelle Norris]

Because you're ready to seize what ought to be.

[Barack Obama]

For everywhere in this country, there are first steps to be taken.

[Obama Presidential Center Staff/Representative]

There is a new ground to cover. There are more bridges to be crossed.

[Barack Obama]

And it is you, the young and fearless at heart, the most diverse and educated generation in our history, who the nation is waiting to follow. Because Selma shows us that America is

[Angie.com Customer]

not the project of any one person.

[Barack Obama]

Because the single most powerful word in

[Michelle Obama]

our democracy is the word we.

[Michelle Norris]

We, the people. We shall overcome.

[Obama Presidential Center Staff/Representative]

Yes, we can.

[Michelle Obama]

That word is owned by no one. It belongs to everyone.

[Barack Obama]

Oh, what a, what a glorious task

[Michelle Norris]

we are given to continually try to

[Barack Obama]

improve this great nation of ours.

[Michelle Norris]

This great nation of ours. This great nation of ours. This great nation of ours.

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