Ability to 'tap in' to the youth: Charlie Kirk’s rise in conservative politics

Summary

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Summary of "The Briefing with Jen Psaki"

Episode: Ability to 'tap in' to the youth: Charlie Kirk’s rise in conservative politics
Date: September 11, 2025
Host: Jen Psaki (MSNBC)

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Episode Overview

This urgent and somber episode departs from its planned theme to deliver live, comprehensive coverage of the assassination of Charlie Kirk, the 31-year-old conservative activist and head of Turning Point USA. The discussion covers the immediate aftermath of the shooting at Utah Valley University, the implications for political violence in America, the ongoing manhunt for the perpetrator, and reflections on Kirk’s rise and influence in conservative politics. The episode features commentary, journalism, and interviews with law enforcement analysts, local reporters, and Senator Mark Kelly, among others.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Breaking News: The Assassination of Charlie Kirk

• Incident Details
  • Charlie Kirk was shot and killed at a Utah Valley University campus event ([01:30], [13:33]).
  • The shooting occurred 20 minutes into his speech, with thousands in attendance.
  • Described as a political assassination and a "dark day" for the nation ([02:24]).
  • The shooter fired a single shot from a distance, likely using a long rifle ([03:02], [24:31]).

2. National Response & Atmosphere

• Immediate Political and Community Reaction
  • National leaders, including the President and Utah Governor Spencer Cox, quickly condemned the violence ([01:30], [02:24]).
  • Consensus across political parties: "There is no place in our country for political violence. Period. Full stop." – Sen. John Thune ([45:04]).
  • Emotional appeals for unity and introspection, regardless of political position ([03:12], [03:50], [45:45]).

3. Law Enforcement & Investigation

• Manhunt and Investigation Updates

  • Initial confusion regarding the status of a person of interest; the suspect is at large ([05:09], [08:52], [18:33]).

  • The FBI leads the investigation, classifying it under domestic terrorism ([20:12]).

  • Concerns about field office leadership transitions and resource allocation ([09:18]).

  • The unique challenge of investigating a sniper attack in a low-security, open campus event ([10:00], [12:51], [24:05]).

    "There's an extra attention from the Trump administration...because they know Charlie Kirk very well, and he was a friend and supporter." – Jen Psaki ([13:33])

4. Community and Campus Reaction

• Impact on Utah Valley University
  • The community is confused and fearful, with ongoing SWAT activity and campus closures ([07:55], [15:17]).
  • Utah Valley University is a large, conservative campus; Kirk had close ties there ([11:32], [12:51]).
  • A recent Utah law allows open carry of firearms on campus, prompting questions in the aftermath ([15:17]).

5. Broader Political & Social Reflections

• Escalating Political Violence

  • Pattern of recent attacks on public officials and institutions across party lines ([02:42], [28:48]).

  • Senator Mark Kelly draws parallels to his wife Gabby Giffords’s shooting, discusses the trauma for victims' families, and calls for political leaders to use their words more responsibly ([27:58], [29:19]).

  • Bipartisan statements denouncing the attack and urging peaceful political discourse ([45:04], [45:45]).

    "You don't have to agree with people to think what happened today was a horrific tragedy" – Jen Psaki ([14:40])

6. Reflections on Charlie Kirk's Political Influence

• Kirk’s Rise to National Influence

  • Kirk founded Turning Point USA in 2012 and aligned closely with Donald Trump from 2016 ([38:36]).

  • Known for his ability to galvanize youth support, particularly via social media and hundreds of college events ([39:41], [39:47]).

  • Kirk was a central figure among MAGA leaders, serving as a bridge to younger Republicans and cultivating an energized base ([40:50], [41:28]).

  • His open debates and willingness to engage critics were key to his influence ([39:47], [40:50]).

    "He was able to actually tap into the youth of the country...that is what really led to Charlie Kirk sort of becoming this American political and cultural figure." – Von Hilliard ([39:47])

• Close Ties in the MAGA Movement

  • Intimate connections with Trump family members, J.D. Vance, and other high-profile MAGA figures ([41:28]).

7. Threats to Democratic Participation

• Impact on Political Engagement and Free Speech

  • Growing fear among political figures and the public regarding attendance at rallies and town halls ([35:00], [43:39]).

  • Concerns that violence may deter public engagement and erode democratic norms ([35:00], [43:39]).

    "When something like this happens, it makes people question the strength of our democracy and whether or not they should be involved in it." – Sen. Mark Kelly ([35:00])

• The Future of Public Safety at Events

  • Calls for reassessment of security measures, balanced against the need for open democratic dialogue ([35:00], [36:46]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On National Trauma and Empathy
  • "If anyone in the sound of my voice celebrated even a little bit at the news of this shooting...I would beg you to look in the mirror and to see if you can find a better angel in there somewhere." – Jen Psaki ([03:04])
• On Political Unity and Responsibility
  • "We need every single person in this country to think about where we are and where we want to be." – Jen Psaki ([03:31])
  • "Everybody in my position...needs to think about how much weight our words carry...Is this the trajectory we want the country to stay on?" – Sen. Mark Kelly ([29:19])
• On Gun Violence
  • "We do see, time and again, things like this happen because somebody who shouldn't have a firearm gets one. Again...in general, it's up to us...to see if we can find solutions, find some common ground on this issue." – Sen. Mark Kelly ([33:11])
• On Democracy and Civic Participation
  • "He had every right to be there. I would go to war...to defend his right to say it." – Sen. Mark Kelly ([35:00])
• On Kirk’s Legacy
  • "Charlie Kirk was that segue to the future [of MAGA]...ensuring there was a base of influence...and also name recognition among millennials and even younger." – Von Hilliard ([41:28])
• On National Leaders’ Reactions
  • "Violence and vitriol must be purged from the public square. Members of other political parties are not our enemies. They are our fellow citizens." – George W. Bush ([45:45])
  • "I'm saddened and angered by Charlie Kirk's murder, and I hope we all go through some serious introspection and redouble our efforts to engage in debate passionately yet peacefully." – Bill Clinton ([45:45])
• On the Campus and Community
  • "Confusion is probably the best way to describe what is happening...they had SWAT teams combing through their backyards...we're back to square one." – Brian Schott ([07:55])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:30] – Announcement & details of the Charlie Kirk shooting
• [02:24] – Governor Cox, reactions from officials
• [05:09] – Update on law enforcement investigation, suspect at large
• [07:55] – Community’s confusion and fear in Utah
• [09:18] – FBI coordination and field office leadership issues
• [11:32] – Local context: Utah Valley University and conservative politics
• [13:33] – National impact, human dimension, personal responses
• [15:17] – Campus and legal context regarding firearms
• [18:33] – Details on the shooter’s location and law enforcement response
• [20:12] – FBI counterterrorism response explained
• [24:31] – Analysis of the sniper shot (distance and skill involved)
• [27:58] – Interview with Sen. Mark Kelly, personal and political reflections
• [32:03] – Discussion of political rhetoric and leadership responsibility
• [35:00] – Impact on public engagement and democratic participation
• [36:46] – Reflections on youth and security after concurrent school shooting
• [38:36] – Von Hilliard on Charlie Kirk’s rise and youth outreach
• [41:28] – Kirk’s role in the MAGA movement and lasting influence
• [43:39] – Concerns about effects of violence on civic participation
• [45:04] – Bipartisan statements condemning political violence

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Tone and Language

The episode carries a tone of urgency, shock, empathy, and solemnity, cutting across partisan lines. Speakers frequently emphasize shared values, the importance of civil discourse, and the tragedy’s impact on individuals, communities, and the democratic fabric. The conversation is earnest, careful, and often emotional.

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Conclusion

This episode of "The Briefing with Jen Psaki" delivers real-time reporting and analysis on the assassination of Charlie Kirk, exploring its immediate context, nationwide reactions, law enforcement responses, and the broader implications for American democracy and political discourse. Through expert analysis, personal reflection, and reporting from those closest to the events, the episode underscores the mounting crisis of political violence in the United States, while also highlighting urgent calls for unity, the defense of free speech, and renewed civic engagement.

Transcript

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[MSNBC Host Jen Ryan]

Activist Charlie Kirk was shot and killed today in what appears to be a targeted act of political violence. Kirk was of course, CEO of the right wing youth organization Turning Point USA and a close ally of Donald Trump's. He was just 31 years old. He was a husband and a father of two young kids. Now, this senseless act of political violence unfolded at a campus event at Utah Valley University just north of Provo, Utah. Kirk was about 20 minutes into speaking in front of a crowd of thousands at a campus event when a single gunshot rang out. The crowd immediately took cover, ran for safety. You can see some of the footage there. And while multiple videos have surfaced showing these shooting from several angles and what actually happened, I'm not gonna show it to you here because it is unbelievably graphic. Now, within hours, the President himself had announced Kirk's death. And then hours after that, the Governor of Utah, Spencer Cox, had this to say.

[Senator Mark Kelly]

This is a dark day for our state. It's a tragic day for our nation.

[Jen Psaki]

And I want to be very clear.

[Christopher O'Leary]

That this is a political assassination.

[Jen Psaki]

Our nation is broken.

[Christopher O'Leary]

We've had.

[Jen Psaki]

Political assassinations recently in Minnesota.

[Christopher O'Leary]

We had an attempted assassination on the governor of Pennsylvania. And we had an attempted assassination on.

[Jen Psaki]

A presidential candidate and former president of the United States.

[Christopher O'Leary]

If anyone in the sound of my.

[Jen Psaki]

Voice celebrated even a little bit at the news of this shooting.

[MSNBC Host Jen Ryan]

I would.

[Jen Psaki]

Beg you to look in the mirror.

[Christopher O'Leary]

And to see if you can find.

[Jen Psaki]

A better angel in there somewhere. I don't care what his politics are.

[Christopher O'Leary]

I care that he was an American.

[Jen Psaki]

We desperately need our country. We desperately need leaders in our country. But more than the leaders, we just need every single person in this country to think about where we are and where we want to be.

[MSNBC Host Jen Ryan]

America is in the midst of a completely terrifying surge in political violence. And as Governor Cox just captured, this is not even the first incident of political violence and of a political figure being killed this year. And his words there captured. This is why I wanted to play it for all of you, what a lot of people are living through. Many people in very different areas of public life, political office or not. Now, there is a lot of news developing about this. There's already a lot of confusion surrounding the shooter through the course of the afternoon. Just an hour ago, Kash Patel announced that the subject who had been in custody had been interrogated and then released and that the investigation was still ongoing. So today's shooting is still very much a developing story, and we're gonna bring any updates we have over the course of the next hour. Kendelane is an MSNBC justice and intelligence correspondent. Brian Schott is the publisher and managing editor of Utah Political Watch. They've both been covering this very close in every detail all through the course of the day. I'm so grateful that both of you could be here with me tonight. Ken, let me start with you. You have been following this. As I noted, through the course of the day, there has been some confusion over the shooter. There's been a range of different reports from the FBI, from local officials. Get us up to date on sort of where we stand now and sort of what the big questions are out there right now.

[Jen Psaki]

Yeah, Jen, that's really the latest development. Here is the puzzling and confusing postings on social media about this by FBI Director Kash Pat. About two hours ago, he posted something that seemed quite definitive. It said that the subject for the horrific shooting today that took the life of Charlie Cook is now in custody. But soon after that, local officials were referring to that person as a person of interest, which is a term of art for law enforcement, suggesting they don't want to label someone as a suspect. And then about an hour ago, Patel posted again and disclosed that this person had been released, so clearly was not deemed culpable in the shooting. And so that leaves us to believe, although they haven't said it explicitly, that this shooter is now at large. And that's a really alarming development. There is video circulating that appears to show the shooter on the rooftop of a building 150 yards away. So this was essentially a sniper shot. One shot was fired, as you said. The governor called this a political assassination, and this person is now at large. Now, of course, there is a massive manhunt ongoing, although again, authorities have said very little about that and about what resources are being brought to bear. But my sources are telling me everything's being brought to bear. Every level of local, state, and federal law enforcement is trying to identify this person and find this person. And it's worth remembering that the Luigi Mangione alleged assassination of the UnitedHealthcare CEO took place. And it wasn't for until five days later that Mangione was caught and arrested and jailed. And so, you know, we've, in other words, we've seen this kind of playbook before. Unfortunately, this appears. I mean, we don't know exactly the circumstances around this, but we know that this was a planned event that had been announced in advance. And Kirk was speaking before, as you said, thousands of people in an open air campus amphitheater where there wasn't perimeter security and you wouldn't expect there to be on a college campus. And so it was a ripe, soft target for someone with an intent to commit horrific bloodshed. And that's what has happened. Janet.

[MSNBC Host Jen Ryan]

Brian, I think this is, this is. And Ken mentioned this. I mean, this happened on a college campus. This is a community that had Charlie, Kirk, they're speaking a figure, as I understand they're quite familiar with Utah is quite familiar with. And right now, something's happening that would be incredibly and scary to any community. The students, the faculty, the families who live there. What is it like? What is the community experiencing right now? What is happening on the ground? Tell us a little bit more about what you're seeing and what you're hearing from your sources.

[Brian Schott]

I think confusion is probably the best way to describe what is happening. There was a very large police presence there. More police officers from other jurisdictions coming in. I spoke with people who lived across the street from the campus, and they said that they had SWAT teams combing through their backyards looking for the person who committed this horrific act. The fact that Someone was taken into custody early. That launched a lot of speculation here in Utah. And then when we found out that that person had been let go, then the search continued. And then, as Ken said, there was the confusion between federal and state authorities about the person they were questioning. And the fact that that person has been released means that we're back to square one. And people are still looking for this person. And I'm not hearing that they have a ton of leads at this point.

[MSNBC Host Jen Ryan]

Ken, what is it? This is, this is, it's very tough, I think, for people watching to hear back at square one. As you mentioned, this has happened before, obviously, in other shootings, but the coordination between local and federal law enforcement, as I understand local leaders, some of them haven't been there for that long. That happens in some field offices, of course, but what does that look like right now? What are you hearing about efforts to improve that coordination? Coordination? And where has the breakdown really been?

[Jen Psaki]

Well, you mentioned, I think you're referring to the Salt Lake City field office of the FBI, which covers the entire state of Utah and other states. And yes, there has been, there was a recent firing there of the Special Agent in Charge, who is a decorated, well regarded agent who happened to specialize in counterterrorism, a Pakistani American who joined the FBI after 9 11. And she was fired for reasons that at least to her were never explicitly stated. She was told she wasn't a good fit for the office. This is not normal. This doesn't happen in the FBI typically, but it's been happening under Kash Patel. So she was removed several weeks ago and there's a new Special Agent in charge there. And that inevitably there are growing pains when a new leader comes into an office. So we don't know exactly whether that has contributed to the confusion. When I talk to people about what's happening on the ground, they say that, look, there's, there's, you know, the FBI still has many, many capable and qualified people who have been brought to bear on this situation, and they are cooperating fully with state and local authorities and they are doing the kinds of things that needs to be done. And not just the FBI, the US Marshals, which is, which is an agency that is well equipped to hunt for fugitives. And the atf, every federal agency is bringing their resources to bear to try to identify and find this suspect. But you can't ignore the fact that the special Agent in charge was fired. We're in a situation where FBI domestic terrorism agents are being required to go out on immigration raids. So taking less time away from hunting for violent extremists at a time when the threat from domestic violent extremists is probably as high as it's been since the late 1960s. So that's the context here. And the people running the FBI have some questions to answer about allocation of resources, about why they're removing qualified people, and about, you know, where the manhunt tonight stands.

[MSNBC Host Jen Ryan]

Jen Ryan, tell us a little bit about Utah Valley University. I mean, I've been thinking about how these students woke up this morning thinking they were attending a political event in September. Many of them excited about attending this event, I assume if they were doing it, what is the community like? What is the student body like? And are these the typical type of events that take place there?

[Brian Schott]

This sort of thing does happen there quite a bit. And as you said earlier, Charlie Kirk is well known here in the state. He has spoken here a number of times. He is very friendly with members of our congressional delegation, even came here to campaign for a U.S. senate candidate last year. Orem and Utah Valley University, it's one of the fastest growing universities here in the state. And even though it's a college town, it is a very conservative area of the state. I think Donald Trump won the city by almost 30 points in the 2024 election. Utah county, where Orem is, Trump carried that by 40 points. So it's a very conservative area, a very Republican area, and Kirk would be a very popular person to bring in. It's a very large school. They've one of the fastest growing populations of students here in the state. And it's just a beautiful campus. And the area where Kirk was speaking is a small amphitheater on campus surrounded by buildings. And if they're saying that this shot came from somewhere between 150, 200 yards away, it would have been right over the top of the heads of everybody who was there in this small amphitheater to hear him speak.

[MSNBC Host Jen Ryan]

Yeah, we're just showing kind of a visual of that distance there just to give people a sense of that as well. Ken, you are very well sourced in law enforcement in so many places, including in Washington. What is unique about Charlie Kirk? Many things, but one of them is that he was very close to the president, he was very close to the vice president, a number of people in the family. I think that gives an extra focus and we can see that from some of the reporting about what's the discussions happening within the White House and law enforcement. What are you hearing about about the discussions and how they are all Kind of digesting this and looking ahead to what to do next at this point.

[Jen Psaki]

Yeah, Jen, I think you're making a great point. There's a human dimension to this.

[Von Hilliard]

Right.

[Jen Psaki]

Look, this event, this horrific event would have drawn national attention no matter who this was. An assassination essentially on video for most of the world to see, even though we're not showing it. A horrific video. And it would have drawn a presidential response because it's a political assassination. But there's an extra attention from the Trump administration and the people around Donald Trump because they know Charlie Kirk very well, and he was a friend and a supporter. And that's just a human thing for them to be feeling right now. And so you can imagine that they are pulling out all the stops to try to find the person who did this and bring them to justice, because just, you know, there's just. People are feeling this very deeply. And whether you knew Charlie Kirk or not, I mean, many of us have watched his videos on YouTube and enjoyed him engaging with his political opponents. Whether you disagreed or agreed with what he had to say, he put himself out there, and it's just horrific, the idea that, you know, he was exercising his right to speak freely in the United States and was gunned down in cold blood.

[MSNBC Host Jen Ryan]

John, you don't have to agree with people to think what happened today was a horrific tragedy for him and his. His family and his k, which I've been thinking about as well today. Brian, let me ask you. It may be too soon to know anything about this, but I think clearly this must have shaken the university leadership. I don't know that most colleges and universities would be prepared for something like this. There are events with speakers of all different political backgrounds at colleges and universities across the country. But have there been any discussions or what have you heard about sort of how they've thought about security moving forward for these type of events or even in the immediate future?

[Brian Schott]

I know a number of the other universities around the state, they are taking this very seriously, and they have told faculty and staff that they will be increasing their security presence on campus. Utah Valley is closed for the next few days because of this event. They will not be holding any classes, which is completely understandable. An interesting aspect of this is the Utah legislature, which has a Republican super majority. They changed the law early, earlier this year to make it legal for someone to openly carry a weapon on college campuses. Previously, you could carry a concealed weapon if you had a permit. They changed the law that if you have the permit, you can carry the weapon either concealed or in an open fashion. And I'm going to be tracking that over the next few days to see if there are any attempts to maybe roll back that change to the law after this.

[MSNBC Host Jen Ryan]

Yeah, Brian, that will be really interesting to hear more about. Thank you for all of your reporting on the ground. Sometimes it's so hard to know and understand what's happen happening in a local community and I think you really brought it to life for all of us. And Ken, thank you for your tireless reporting all day today. I know you're still calling sources and still talking to people, so if anything comes up, let us know. Let our producers know. We'd love to talk to you more about it over the next hour. Thank you both again.

[Jen Psaki]

Thanks, Jen.

[MSNBC Host Jen Ryan]

We're going to take a quick break and after that we're going to talk about, well, we're going to talk with an FBI veteran who has decades of experience in counterterrorism on what comes next in this manhunt. We're back in 90 seconds.

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Try Monday Sidekick AI you'll love to use on Monday.com. we're continuing to follow developments in the police investigation of the assassination of political activist Charlie Kirk. And Kirk was shot and killed during a political rally at Utah Valley University in Orem, Utah, earlier today. A spokesperson for the university said in a statement that Kirk was shot from the university's Low C Center, approximately 500ft away from where Kirk was speaking. Earlier tonight, FBI officials and the governor of Utah confirmed that there was a person of interest in custody. A senior FBI official told NBC News that they were confident that the person was the shooter. But just about an hour ago, FBI Director Kash Patel posted on X that the subject in custody had been released after an interrogation by law enforcement and that their investigation continues. So that is where we stand as of now. Christopher o' Leary served in the FBI for over two decades, primarily in counterterrorism roles. He's now an MSNBC National Security and Intelligence analyst. Thank you so much for being here with me. I think you've helped really keep us all abreast throughout the course of the day, and I really appreciate it. Let me just start by asking you about where my conversation ended with Ken and Brian, which is just the status of things on the ground. I mean, what we know right now is that Charlie Kirk's shooter remains at large with a manhunt currently underway. That's all the reporting from on the ground. Walk us through what likely next steps are in terms of what local law enforcement is doing, how they are or should be coordinating with federal law enforcement.

[Christopher O'Leary]

Well, Jen, I think this investigation will inevitably be led by the FBI. The political nature of it, at least on its surface. We don't know the full motivation of the individual carried out the attack, but it looks like a political act of violence. So the FBI puts that in the domestic terrorism category, and it will be investigated as a matter of terrorism. The FBI will certainly do it in partnership with all the state and local partners. The FBI has done that since its inception in 1908. It's a relatively small organization and excels in partnerships. But what the FBI also will do is bring immense resources to the problem. So the FBI's evidence response teams will be working on the ballistics, trying to pinpoint the point of origin of the shot. They'll be doing technical collection, trying to find out if there were any active cell phones that had COMMERC available data in the region and start tracking that person's location. So the big priority is to identify who the shooter is and start to locate them. And for several reasons. Number one, you want to get this person in pocket as soon as you can. But number two, to protect the public, because this person is clearly armed, is on the loose, not located, and is willing to commit violence. So getting this person in pocket is. Is a priority. But then the other thing I'll touch on is getting clear messaging, synchronized messaging out to the public, and that was not done yet today. There's clearly a little bit of disjoint between the new SAC Special Agent in charge of the Salt Lake City field office, and in fairness to him, he just got out there, probably hasn't established his partnerships yet. But also between FBI field office in Salt Lake City and FBI headquarters, there should be one unified message that is informing the public, letting them know that authorities have things in hand and have a plan that's easily digestible by everybody and that is consistent, but also asking for the public's help. You want the public to help provide any information and help locate this individual. And I haven't seen that yet.

[MSNBC Host Jen Ryan]

What kind of questions? I mean, Brian, who's a reporter in the local area, was just saying that people were saying there were law enforcement walking through their backyards, and they were, as a part of the manhunt, what kind of information or what kind of questions should be they be asking? Because they are relying on information from the public at this point, in part, I assume.

[Christopher O'Leary]

Yeah. So what the FBI should be putting out in local law enforcement is advising the public that there, you know, there is an ongoing manhunt. There's areas that they're looking for. I'll give you an example. I responded to the Boston Marathon bombing, and, you know, Boston and the surrounding towns were shut down for days, and we surged additional resources up there. But we tried to keep the people of Boston and the surrounding areas informed the entire time. And it turned into a partnership with everybody, which helped locate, you know, the Tsar Naya brothers on two occasions and, you know, and ultimately the capture and the boat. But that was done in partnership with the public, asking for their support, asking for information, and we just haven't seen that yet. The FBI is going to use, you know, try to look for any breadcrumbs, any cctv, either at the location or backtrack of any avenues of approach that this individual could have come in, license plate readers, and trying to build a pattern of life for somebody who might have come there. Unfortunately, it was a large scale event and it wasn't, you know, there wasn't a particularly heavy amount of security. So there's going to be very little collection that was available that we would normally see at a high profile event.

[MSNBC Host Jen Ryan]

One of the things that has been jarring, there's been a lot of jarring and horrifying things about this as we've talked about it today, but one of them is that the fatal shot was reportedly fired from over 500ft away. And we've been kind of showing this visual to help the audience understand. I mean, that's about one and a half football fields away, if we're doing our math correctly. Does that provide, I mean, any insight into the nature of the shooter's abilities or what level of skill that would have been required to fire one fatal shot at that distance?

[Christopher O'Leary]

Distance, yeah, Unfortunately, I'm going to tell you, it's not that difficult of a shot. It does suggest that this was done with a long rifle. A rifle, a handgun is effective out to about 75 yards with a really qualified shooter. But anybody with some basic capabilities who knows how to sight in a rifle, whether it's an AR15 platform or some kind of bolt action rifle, that shot is unfortunately pretty easy if you have some basic skills. But the concern is what's the ideology and what's the driver for this violence and are they going to continue to carry it out? Was this the only target or is this part of some broader movement of political violence?

[MSNBC Host Jen Ryan]

Chris Frolliery, thank you. I really appreciate you staying with us tonight. Thank you again.

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[MSNBC Host Jen Ryan]

Monday Sidekick AI you'll love to use on Monday.com. okay. Up next, Senator Mark Kelly knows all too well the horror and the heartbreak of political violence as far too many people do. Senator Kelly joins me next. Welcome back. Joining us now is Arizona Senator Mark Kelly. His wife, former Congresswoman Gabby Giffords, is the survivor of a politically motivated shooting in 2011. They have both been advocating for reforms tirelessly since then. Senator Kelly, thank you for being here with me today. I, I thought of you and I thought of your wife all day today and just how much, how tough days like this must really be. So first, I just want to start by asking you, when you saw the news of the shooting, what, what was your first reaction?

[Senator Mark Kelly]

Well, it's horrifying. You know, we've seen this many times in our country's history. It feels like more lately. You know, I immediately thought of, you know, Charlie's wife. I didn't know her name when this happened, but her, his, his wife Erica and the phone call that she got, which is similar to the phone call that I received 14 years ago. And it is just a horrific thing to hear somebody say case of Gabby, she survived, you know, Charlie did not. And this type of political violence in our country is just too common and it has to end. But I, you know, I think about his parents and his children, you know, three and one year old that are going to grow up now without a dad.

[MSNBC Host Jen Ryan]

Yeah.

[Senator Mark Kelly]

And it is just a horrible, horrible thing.

[MSNBC Host Jen Ryan]

It feels like we have these conversations too often and I know you're often a part of them. And I should note, in addition to the horrific shooting today, we've obviously there was the kidnapping plot against Governor Whitmer, the attack on Paul Pelosi, multiple assassination attempts against Trump, the attack on the Capitol, the baseball shooting, of course, the shootings in Minnesota. What can national lawmakers do? What can be done at this point to change this trajectory?

[Senator Mark Kelly]

Well, I think everybody needs everybody in my position or governors, members of the House, US Senators, we need to think about how much weight our words carry and make a decision. Is this the trajectory we want the country to stay on or we want to get off of it? And I think it's within our power to get off of this and dial it down and get our country to a better place politically. It's been tough the last eight years and it has been very divisive. I think it's important for people to recognize that whether you're a Democrat or Republican and you generally want the same thing for our country, want our kids to get a good education, we want people to be able to raise a family and put food on the table and make a decent living and have decent healthcare. And then we often get all mixed up in how are we going to get there. And I think what folks see from the outside is they see a very divided Washington and we're often divided. But we also have moments where we come together to make, you know, hard choices, but, you know, choices that are good for the American people. And I think people don't see that. You know, I worry about, you have, you know, folks across the political spectrum that just say things that don't age well and often they probably should regret saying it. And people listen, you know, they listen to what we say, they see it on social media. So I think it's, you know, it's on all of us to really consider, you know, how we get our message out there and how this message does have an impact.

[MSNBC Host Jen Ryan]

It's so challenging for a million reasons right now. And I would just wanna say first we don't know who the shooter is, we don't know what their motivation is. Cuz they're still at large. It's a very scary time for the people in that community right now. And President Trump, this was somebody he knew personally, I will acknowledge and obviously is impacted by. But he put out a four minute video and I'm not gonna play the video, I don't wanna play the video. But there was a line at the end that I think is, I just wanted to raise and read at the end of the, this four minute video. He says for years those on the radical left have compared wonderful Americans like Charlie to Nazis and the world's most worst mass murderers and criminals. This kind of rhetoric is directly responsible for the terrorism that we're seeing in our country today and it must stop right now. And obviously there's a lot of rhetoric that is problematic. A lot of it is coming from one particular side and from one particular building. But what can be done, I fear, when this is an escalation already in less than 24 hours of this shooting.

[Senator Mark Kelly]

Yeah. I think historically, presidents have looked for opportunities to bring people together. You know, right now we need a president that'll bring the country together and not try to further, you know, divide us. People say things, regretful things. You know, I've seen it. I've seen, you know, Democrats in the Senate say things where I thought we're over a line. I've seen Republicans do the same thing. Perpetuating this kind of thing is just not helpful. I hope in the coming days the president looks at this as an opportunity to unite us rather than to divide us.

[MSNBC Host Jen Ryan]

Yeah, I will say I word for presidents when there were shootings, unfortunately, on both sides of the aisle, and that is what they do. You try to unite the country and come together and be there for people. Your wife statement today was incredibly powerful. And part of what she said was that both parties share a moral and patriotic duty to take meaningful action to stop gun crime from claiming more lives. This has been something you have both worked on so passionately. What do you hope, and I don't even necessarily mean something policy wise, but what do you hope comes out of this moment?

[Senator Mark Kelly]

Well, we've got to see the shooter's motivation. We got to see where they got the firearm. But one thing we do know is we've got very easy access to firearms and we have a lot of people to get shot, know them. I, I think it's, that's indisputable. And we do also know where there's stronger gun laws, there's less gun violence. Again, we do not know who this person was, where they got the gun from. But we often see in these types of shootings, what happened to Gabby was a guy who was dangerously mentally ill, disturbed, he had easy access to a firearm. He passed a background check, but under maybe different circumstances with, you know, more information out there, he wouldn't have. But we do see, you know, time and time again things like this happened because somebody who shouldn't have a firearm gets one. Again. In this case, we still have to see the details, but I would say, you know, in general, it's up to us, you know, Democrats and Republicans working together to see if we can find solutions, find some common ground on this issue. Because having over 100,000 people shot and killed every year in our country, country is just, it's unacceptable.

[MSNBC Host Jen Ryan]

One of the Things I've thought a lot about as it relates to Gabby, of course, and the shooting today is that these are people who are playing a role in public life. You don't have to agree with them on everything, but they're trying to engage with the public, have a conversation, and people do that. There are town halls happening across the country all the time. There are many people who will run for president, will be out there doing events. How does this change? Or should it change? I mean, nobody wants to live in a bubble. We don't want our politicians to live in a bubble because that's part of our democracy. So how do you. Should anything change right now? Or how should we address that, keep people safe while still maintaining that ability to dialogue?

[Senator Mark Kelly]

You know, Gabby was meeting with her constituents at a safe way. I mean, doing something sort of similar, answering questions, you know, Charlie Kirk at a university. Now, I didn't agree with much of what Charlie Kirk would say, but I would go to war. I served in the Navy for 25 years. I would go to war to defend his right to say it. He had every right to be there. I mean, how does this change things? I think in the, you know, in the near term, people will start, you know, wondering if they should participate in public life because they might be concerned for their safety, their family safety. Folks might decide, hey, I don't want to go to a political rally. Many of those folks there today, maybe that will be the last political thing they do for a really long time. That's not healthy for our democracy. We need people engaged. We need them to show up. You know, even, you know, I'm a Democrat serving in the Senate. You know, even if they're showing up to vote for Republicans, we need people to participate. And when something like this happens, it makes people question the strength of our democracy and whether or not they should be involved in it.

[MSNBC Host Jen Ryan]

I wanted to mention with you, because it just hasn't been mentioned today much, is that we also got the news of a school shooting in Colorado where at least three students were injured. This happened on a university campus. And it just makes me think a lot about young people and students who are just trying to go to school or just trying to attend events, very different scenarios. But they're all students and young people. What kind of security or what kind of changes or maybe there shouldn't be, should happen as it relates to school administrators and thinking about the safety of these events?

[Senator Mark Kelly]

Well, I think somebody who runs a school, whether it's elementary school or university, need to. Need to think about these things. I have a four year old granddaughter.

[MSNBC Host Jen Ryan]

Yeah.

[Senator Mark Kelly]

Before she was two, she was in her first school lockdown.

[MSNBC Host Jen Ryan]

Yeah.

[Senator Mark Kelly]

It wasn't a drill, you know, for real. She won't remember. But our young people have been going through this and living through this their entire lives.

[Christopher O'Leary]

Lives.

[Senator Mark Kelly]

It's incredibly stressful. I think in some cases for the folks, the kids in Denver, you know, today that, you know, results in like stress and ptsd. We shouldn't accept that we will have a society where school shootings on a daily or weekly basis is an acceptable thing. It is not. And here's the thing, we can do something about it and we do know what to do do. Just gotta take some, it's gonna take some political courage for some people to stand up against, you know, interests that have a lot of money and political power, but stand up against those interests to just do the right thing.

[MSNBC Host Jen Ryan]

Senator Mark Kelly, I was really looking forward to talking to you today. Thank you so much for being here. Really appreciate it.

[Senator Mark Kelly]

Thank you, Jen.

[MSNBC Host Jen Ryan]

Okay, Coming up, we're gonna take a quick break, but we're gonna talk to MSNBC's Vaughn Hilliard, who's gonna join me and talk about his insight into Charlie Kirk, his rise, his political influence months and now his death. Stay with us. Welcome back to our breaking news coverage on the assassination of Charlie Kirk and the ongoing manhunt for his killer. Joining us now is Von Hilliard. He's MSNBC senior White House correspondent. He's also an Arizona native who has covered Charlie Kirk's rise in conservative politics extensively. So, I mean, there, I think a lot of people watching have heard of Charlie Kirk, but don't maybe know about all about how he got to be where he is. When did, when did you first become aware of Charlie?

[Von Hilliard]

I think it was sometime in 2015, 2016. And I think the Arizona native part of this is relevant because that's where he and his family live. And in large part it was 2016 when he latched on to the sort of insurgent candidacy of Donald Trump, that this organization Turning Point USA, that he started all the way back in 2012, really started to take off. Arizona was a place in 2022 where effectively his organization, allies, they had all but taken over there as an organization, Republican Party. They had people like Carrie Lake whose candidacies they were backing. They had a massive door knocking operation. Right. This is a group that had effectively raised hundreds of millions of dollars and was almost the size of the actual Republican Party. Almost this counterweight of outside influence that was really Quite staggering and only led to this moment here where now Charlie Kirk is somebody who we are talking about and somebody who is now getting noted upon his passing by every living.

[MSNBC Host Jen Ryan]

President and college campuses. I mean, he was on a college campus today, but people haven't watched him as closely as you have. I mean, he's done how many of these events over the course?

[Von Hilliard]

I mean, he's done hundreds, hundreds of them.

[MSNBC Host Jen Ryan]

And this is part of kind of what he has created. The movement he created, he tried to.

[Von Hilliard]

Create a political organization and it was a juggernaut of one. And yet they had some election losses in 2022, in early 2023, folks may recall, there was an effort to oust Ronna McDaniel as the RN place Harmeet Dillon into that role. He was the one, Charlie Kirk behind that and he was kind of getting Ron DeSantis on board. And that didn't work out. But what really did work out and what really brought Charlie Kirk, you could say, to the next level, not just his podcast, but it was the social media effort. And that is where he was able to actually tap into the youth of the country in 2023 and 2024. And by going to these college campuses and having these, these open debates where you tell people, come speak on the microphone, tell me why I'm wrong. And that is what really led to Charlie Kirk sort of becoming this American political and cultural figure. It was not the political organization so much as it was that of their presence on social media and that of their presence on these college campuses and.

[MSNBC Host Jen Ryan]

This kind of advocacy. I mean, I disagree with him on almost everything, but for free speech is something that, yes, he was welcoming people who disagreed with him to argue with him, which was part of sort of what generated a great deal of buzz around him. He was, you know, Donald Trump essentially announced in part, has sort of announced his death today, which is significant. A President of the United States, no matter who they are, he's a 31 year old political leader. He's also though, as I understand it, but you tell me more about the orbit. Quite close to J.D. vance, to Trump Jr. To many people who are in the Trump orbit and has played an essential role to many in the orbit.

[Von Hilliard]

Most of them consider him a close friend.

[MSNBC Host Jen Ryan]

Friend.

[Von Hilliard]

Because anybody that has touched MAGA over the last 10 years will have run interference with Charlie Kirk. He is somebody. Back in 2022, I was covering the competitive Ohio Senate primary that J.D. vance narrowly won. And it was, it was Charlie Kirk on the campaign trail with him those last closing days. Marjorie Taylor Greene, but no other senators, no other members of Congress. It was Charlie Kirk and Marjorie Taylor Greene and J.D. vance that night in Ohio. Ohio credited Charlie Kirk for helping push them across the finish line. And Charlie Kirk is somebody who, you know, I think kind of to the relevancy is like Pam Bondio is actually traveling with her today and she considered him a close friend. Don Jr. Effectively, the Republican Party today is MAGA. And much like Steve Bannon has a very popular podcast, Charlie Kirk has one as well. And for folks that understood that they needed to reach Donald Trump, Trump or have an influence outside of the normal traditional activists of the party and, you know, longtime Republican officials, Charlie Kirk was that segue to the future. And so a lot of people would talk about what's the future of MAGA beyond Donald Trump in, in a lot of ways it was Charlie Kirk, maybe not in political office, but at least ensuring that there was a base of influence around this idea of MAGA and far right policy that he was securing through this type of organization and influence and also name recognition among millennials and even younger, you know, these 20 year olds, these teenagers that have grown up with Donald Trump and MAGA being the Republican Party.

[MSNBC Host Jen Ryan]

I was just talking with Senator Kelly a little bit about this. But you've attended hundreds of rallies. I've probably attended hundreds of political rallies. This has been a, such a surge in political violence against people of both parties. I just wonder how it impacts people attending these rallies, politicians being willing, willing to do them, including town hall meetings. And sort of the fear that you feel that you are hearing from sources you talk to and people in the Republican Party or even in the Democratic Party.

[Von Hilliard]

I think that Senator Kelly's poignant statement was concern that people are going to stop attending events I think could not be more real. And if you're looking at a college campus and a university, there is, is nowhere that is more volatile and I think in a good way, right volatile because you have such an intersection of personalities, of generations of opinions, a fervency, an eagerness to debate and a passion that exists here. And having covered rallies for the last now 10 years, I think it is increasingly a fear of individuals that want to engage in the political process, that want to run for office, that want to get into journalism, that want to be activists and go door, knock. I think that this is something that is increasing and the, you know, there can be a debate about the words of Charlie Kirk, but those words must be allowed to exist in order to have that debate. And we have lost that here today, and in many ways, I fear what that alternative is in our role as journalists is to help engage in that dialogue and be able to point out the words that are being spoken by Charlie Kirk. And when those voices are silenced, it doesn't change the actual dialogue, but it changes, though, the heart of who we are and our ability to have that dialogue.

[MSNBC Host Jen Ryan]

Such an important point and, and political events and engagement and accessibility is part of what makes a democracy, part of what makes our country run. Von Helicopter thank you so much for being here with me tonight. We'll be right back. Today, after news broke of Charlie Kirk shooting and subsequent death, there was no shortage of reaction from voices of all political stripes vehemently condemning the heinous act of violence is just exactly what should happen in these cases. Majority Leader and Republican Senator John Thune posted online, there is no place in our country for political violence. Period. Full stop. That sentiment was echoed by Senate Democratic Leader Chuck Schumer, who said political violence has no place in America, and by House Democratic leader Hakeem Jeffries, who said, political violence of any kind and against any individual is unacceptable and completely incompatible with American values. We pray for his family. During this tragedy, former President Joe Biden released a statement saying, there's no place in our country for this kind of violence. It must end now. That was echoed by his predecessor, Barack Obama, who said, quote, we don't yet know what motivated the person who shot and killed Charlie Kurt, but this kind of despicable violence has no place in our democracy. And also by former President George W. Bush saying, today a young man was murdered in cold blood while expressing his political views. It happens on a college campus where the open exchange of opposing ideas should be sacrosanct. Violence and vitriol must be purged from the public square. Members of other political parties are not our enemies. They are our fellow citizens. Former President Bill Clinton wrote, I'm saddened and angered by Charlie Kirk's murder, and I hope we all go through some serious introspection and redouble our efforts, efforts to engage in debate passionately yet peacefully. Amen to that. That does it for me today. You can catch the show Tuesday through Friday at 9pm Eastern on MSNBC. And don't forget to follow the show on Blue sky, Instagram and TikTok.

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