← The Briefing with Jen Psaki
The Briefing with Jen Psaki
Artemis II Splashdown ...Plus, Hapless Vance heads to Pakistan saddled with Trump's Iran folly
00:51:13
With the global economy in upheaval and his domestic approval dropping like a rock, Donald Trump is sending his number 2, JD Vance to Pakistan to try to make a deal with the Iranians that allows Trump to get out of the war he started with Iran with as few embarrassing concessions as possible. Adm. John Kirby (ret.), former Pentagon press secretary, and Robert Malley, former special envoy for Iran, talk with Jen Psaki about the challenges Vance will face.
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C
Ally Velshi I always watch your show when you're before me, when you're after me, and I was just absolutely glued to the screen. You are for people who love you and watch you all the time. You are like the renaissance man of Ms. Now who knows a lot of things about a lot of things. But you just gracefully led us through what was a really historic moment that I feel like brought the country hopefully together and watched something truly remarkable happening.
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D
May we all just be space geeks tonight. You know, that's the beauty of it.
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C
I'm an aspiring space geek. I think you're already a space geek. You've been watching this so closely. Tell us a little bit about over the next hour. We'll be watching it as well. What are we waiting for? What's next? And what are the things that could happen over the next hour here?
- [01:47]
D
Well, they called it a bullseye splashdown. They came down right where they were supposed to. The conditions were perfect. The conditions in the water, the waves were perfect. And then the funniest thing happened. The simple radio communications broke down. So it wasn't Mission control could speak to the astronauts and mission control could speak to the naval rescuers, but the Navy rescuers couldn't speak to the astronauts. So they literally said things like, are you hitting your push to talk button? You know, kind of like in the old days when it would tell you to reboot the computer and the mission Controller Reid Wiseman. The commander is a. You know, he's an Air Force test pilot, so that delayed them a little bit. But what you're about to see now is something called the front porch. It'll be a raft that comes off of the module. You will see the astronauts emerge. They will then be taken to the John P. Murtha, which is about 3,000 yards away. It's a boat. They're going to spend the night there. Then they're going to be taken back to the mainland and debrief, and the future begins.
- [02:48]
C
Reid Weissman, he's somebody you just mentioned. I think we've all kind of fallen for Reid Weissman and his story. He lost his wife to cancer just a few years ago. She encouraged him to stay living where he was living so he could continue to pursue his passion. He's been raising two daughters himself. It's an incredible story. And they dedicated a crater on the moon. Am I getting that right? To him?
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D
That's right.
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C
During this mission.
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D
To her. Yeah, he.
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E
To her.
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C
I'm sorry.
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D
His late wife, Carol. And the thing we'll all remember is his late wife Carol spelled it with two Ls, C, A, R, O, L, L. He will, as is always the case on a military mission. You're familiar with this. As the commander of the vessel, he will be the last to emerge. So you will see the other two AMERIC astronauts and the Canadian astronaut emerge, and then you will see Reid Weissman emerge. And this is the first time in more than 50 years that Americans have watched the moon up close through their own eyes. This is the beginning of a big deal. And this was a big deal in the administration that you served in and administrations before that. This is one of those few moments that we can all look at and say, when we come together and we don't let politics lead everything, look at the great things that we can do
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C
for the people who are tuning in right now as we're waiting for the astronauts to emerge, they've just. They're just adjust. They're going to be adjusting, readjusting, I should say, to gravity, Right. So they're not going to be. They're going to be, I think, put on stretchers. I believe at some point they have to readjust. Tell us a little bit about what people may physically be seeing.
- [04:20]
D
When we see the astronauts, a couple of things happen. One is your body just doesn't work as hard in space. It ages faster, but it doesn't have to pump as much. It doesn't have to do as much so the fluids don't go through your body the same way your heart rate slows. So that's what they're trying to make sure that these folks can just operate on Earth Normally. This was a 10 day mission so it's probably not going to be too onerous on them, but that's the stuff that they have to check out. As soon as they made contact with them, they first had visual contact. There was a blackout as they came through the atmosphere because the temperatures reach 5,000 degrees. But then they made audio contact and the first report was that they're all in good shape. Then again after splashdown there was another report that they're all, we don't know what that means. It might be that they can't walk, but they're in good shape. They just have to get their circulation up. One of the things that Senator Bill Nelson just mentioned is this is kind of like getting stuck on the tarmac in an airplane. The air conditioning gets shut down so it's getting hot in there. These are trained astronauts, in some cases air Force people, but they're bobbing around in three or four foot waves. You can see it right there. Everybody gets seasick when things like that happen. So there's a lot of the basic stuff. Are you just, okay, can we move you from the vessel to a helicopter And. But they're very clear on the fact that nobody's going back home tonight. They're getting on this boat, they're spending the night in the boat and they'll be in the medical station on the boat getting readings done, getting rehydrated and just getting back to normal. And that's one part of it. The other part of it is this is a test mission. So they're actually going to take other readings and other blood tests to see how their bodies reacted to the speed at which they were flying, the reentry, the changes in atmosphere. So it's every piece of this is scientific, but I think at this point, how many times have you and I been on planes? It's like I'm done with this trip, I just need to get out. And I think some of that might be going through the astronauts minds right now. It's like, can we just, can we get out please?
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C
It's really incredible to watch and I think a lot of people watching may remember back when the Challenger exploded and this is such a positive moment of, you know, rooting for these astronauts. We all got to know them, their stories and it's just exciting to watch. Eli Velsha I'm gonna ask you, because you're a space nerd, I'm ask you to stay where you are and just love your Terry. Joining us now is a couple more people who know a lot about what's happening, Mississippi. Now's Josh Einiger is with us live from Johnson, the Johnson Space center in Houston. Ms. NOW's Moses Small is with us from San Diego. We're also joined by former NASA astronaut Jim Bagen, who is both an engineer and a medical doctor, and Dr. Mae Jameson Jemison, a former astronaut and the first woman of color to have gone to space. This is quite a crew. It's an honor to be speaking with all of you. Let me start with you, Josh. What's the mood at NASA right now?
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F
Well, at the moment, there's huge relief, Jen, and I will tell you, I'm standing in a room filled with science journalists, and at the moment of splashdown, it occurred to me that there wasn't a single sound in this room. There are probably, I don't know, maybe 100 people here, everyone just glued to this image of the Orion space capsule named Integrity, landing on the exact spot it was supposed to land at the 20 seconds late, by the way, but we won't hold that against them. But landing there after a successful mission all around, they traveled 694,481 miles. They broke all kinds of barriers, all kinds of records, and in the end, they've been stymied by communications issues on the ground, on Earth, as they were having difficulty as Ali was talking about communicating with one another, Mission Control trying to be a go between, and that delayed this process of getting them out of the capsule. You see there, the hatch is open. They are now getting fresh air, which is one of the points that Ali made. It's getting hot and stuffy in there. And there are medical personnel that have gone onto the capsule to attend and sort of check the vitals and make sure everybody is in good shape on board, one medical personnel member for each crew member. And then you're going to see them one at a time after they erect what they're calling the front porch. It's basically a raft in front of the space capsule. You're going to see one at a time, they're going to come out. You're going to see Mission Specialist Christina Cook, you're going to see Mission Specialist Jeremy Hansen, you'll see Victor Glover, the pilot, and then ultimately the commander Reid Wiseman. You will see them emerge, and then they're going to be standing there for a little bit to get their their legs back. This will be the first time they will have stood in a gravity environment in 10 days. Right. Then helicopters are going to hoist them up, two per helicopter. We know that Christina Cook and Victor Glover are going to be in one helicopter, the first one, and then Jeremy Hansen and Reed Wiseman in the other. And choppers will then land on the USS John P. Murtha, which is just a little bit off camera. It's not that far away from what we're looking at right now, where they will go through medical testing, make sure that they are in good shape and then it'll be, we're told, up to the astronauts to determine what they do next. Will they then go? Eventually they will be flown to San Diego to Naval Station San Diego. What will they do? Will they spend the night there? They have the opportunity to spend the night there. They also have the opportunity to fly back to Houston, really at their convenience. Tomorrow, we are told a NASA Gulf Stream is ready to fly them back here to Houston where there will be a welcome event and ceremony and they will be back home here in Houston after this epic and record shattering journey. Jim.
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C
Jim, let me bring you that was such a helpful summary of what we're watching and what we're expecting here. Let me bring you into this conversation. I think there are such a small number of people who are former astronauts. Of course, you're one of them. What is going on with these crew members right now? Are they feeling relief? Some of them may be feeling sick. What do you think is going through their minds right now?
- [10:29]
G
Well, you know, the three U.S. astronauts, I believe they're all, it's more than their it's not their first flight, so they know they have to go through the medical checkout. I'm sure they all want to get out as soon as they can. And now there's, I'm sure they're sitting upright in the seat. When they come back in those seats, they're on their backs, essentially. So it's not, it's not a very challenging physiologic thing. You don't tend to get lightheaded or anything from that. But once you are standing upright, some will have problems adapting to that. And as they slowly sit up, some will see they have no problems at all, and probably most will have no problems, but they'll equilibrate to that. And that's one of the checkouts they'll be getting from the medical folks to make sure they are okay. Sometimes you'll hear Physicians talk about being orthostatic, so they were actually wearing suits to help them with that, too, they could use at their discretion. So I think they all want to get out, and they'll be glad to, you know, get out, get on the helicopter and get to the ship and walk a little bit. I think they'll all probably feel pretty well. You. You tend to feel. Everything feels heavy just because you've been in a reduced gravity environment for a long time and your strength does not diminish that much, but things feel heavier. And certainly you don't have the same sense of balance. So if you would be. If you had your eyes closed, even with both feet on the ground, standing upright, you probably would lose your balance. And that's true for about the first 24 hours or so. As long as you can see things, it won't be bad. So you're not. That you've seen before from the other missions. When people get off, they're a little unsteady on their feet, but usually they're fine, most of them. But they want to check on that because you certainly hate to have somebody, you know, fall and have a fall and get injured on a simple thing like that.
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C
Certainly not especially after what they have just been through over the last nine days. Dr. Jamison, let me, let me bring you into this conversation. I was talking with Allie Velshi a little bit about how we all sort of fell for all of these astronauts. I mean, we learned their stories, their names, their families. Tell us what it was like for you watching this mission over the last nine days. And what do you think it means for the future of the space program?
- [12:33]
H
Well, first of all, let me just tell you about what I hope it means. I hope it means that we're going to continue on and not have another break like the 50 years that were between the last Apollo mission and this one. And that this is. This is a continual commitment because it's really the evolution of all of this that allow us to get the best benefits. In terms of what I was thinking, I always had a big smile on my face and very excited that things were going well and that we were moving forward. There was also, for me, you know, Victor, who I do know, he was sending back really great thoughts and ideas. Christina, I was marked by. I was really touched by one thing she said at a point in time that they were actually going to the moon and it was built upon so many people. And she didn't start just with the Apollo program. She went all the way back to all the folks who have been working on space exploration in the modern era, Right? Including the mathematicians, you know, including the people who were making the suits and the flight techs and all of those folks. And I think that's why one of the things that we should appreciate, I've been wanting us as we fall in love with the astronauts, to understand that none of us go up just because we're so cool. We go up on all the work that everyone else does. And that includes again, the technicians who put the vehicles together. It includes the people who do the logistics. All of those people are very important. And I want to just make one other point. This is us and other countries tax dollars at work, right? This is something that I don't think industry would ever have done by itself because it requires so much effort and so much commitment and so much integration and funding. And so we're able to go to low earth orbit now with commercial crews and commercial vehicles because we did the heavy lifting. This is heavy lifting.
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C
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So do we here at Designer Shoe Warehouse. We'll give you something to brag about, like the latest styles from brands you love or the trends everyone's obsessing over or shoes that make you feel like, well, you. So go ahead, show off a little. Buying shoes that get you at prices that get your budget. That's your DSW store or dsw.com today. DSW. Let us surprise you I love the point you just made and I'm so glad you made it. Which is the people behind the scenes, we've seen some photos of them. All of the people whose shoulders they're standing on are such an important part of this story. It's a massive team effort, I guess is a one way to put it. Moses, let me, let me bring you into the conversation because we've all been talking about what, what's next over the next several days. What's immediately next is them going to San Diego. Talk about what happens immediately next for the astronauts and for the Orion capsule.
- [16:49]
I
Yeah. At this point, the Navy is executing on plans that it has been working on for months and in some cases years. And I spent some time with those Navy officials talking me through it. This is going to be a multi hour process. I was told it could take an hour and a half alone just to take the astronaut out of the space capsule. And then there's the question of what to do with that capsule itself after that splashdown. So they're actually going to hoist it on to the USS John P. Merthyr, they're going to take it onto the ship and then eventually that is going to be back in NASA's hands. But we've talked a lot about the physicians that are going to be seeing these astronauts too. That's one incredibly key piece of this because those physicians from both NASA and the Navy are tasked with making sure that these astronauts are okay and responsive, aware they're even back on Earth after falling from the atmosphere. It's hard to wrap our heads around how much we've seen in the past hour. The space capsule shooting down at 24,000 miles per hour. That's 10 to 20 times the speed of a bullet. Those peak temperatures reached up as high as 4 to 5,000 degrees Fahrenheit. For some perspective here, the surface of the sun is about 10,000 degrees Fahrenheit. So they're working with this beautiful story of scale and all these problems that these NASA astronauts have had to solve. And then really in the next steps of this for the Navy is going to be a long process. And then tomorrow when the USS John P. Merthyr returns, that's going to be right behind me. So as we're watching the most dangerous parts of the space mission end, it's a whole other mission that is reaching its most critical point for so many members of the Navy who are just 50 to 60 miles away from me
- [18:27]
C
offshore, who are all playing such a pivotal role in this as well. Jim Bacon, let me. Bajan, let me bring you back into this conversation. We're just again watching this screen. We see a closer shot right there of the capsule. Tell us, walk us through what's happening right now, what everybody's seeing on the screen.
- [18:45]
G
Well, the divers have put the flotation collar around in the front porch, I think they call it, in order to transition the crew out of there. The, the other float flotation you see on the top is just to keep the capsule, if it was rough terrain, you know, rough seas, that it can't become inverted In a stable 2 position, they call it. And they used to have a similar thing like that for Apollo. You may recall they had three of those flotation devices. There's five on this one. So right now they're just trying to get everybody squared away. And I'm sure the, the crew's all smiling and I'm sure there's a lot of kidding around with the, the docs and the, and the techs about when they're going to get the show on the road and get out of there. And they're just kind of just waiting now. It's kind of like a hurry up and wait, I think, at this point to get to the next step, because I'm sure they're all in good shape and they'll be heading over to get in the ship and get their final exams and then go on from there and finish their debriefings and look forward to seeing their families and friends as soon as they get to shore.
- [19:44]
C
I'm sure their astronauts have a sense of humor, too. I guess that's what you're telling us, too. Josh, I understand you have some updated information about the medical condition of the astronauts.
- [19:56]
F
Yes, Jen. So the medical person in charge of the medical situation who is currently on board with the crew, just a few minutes ago called back to mission Control and said the status of all four astronauts is green. And that is not. The mission Control person clarified their complexion. That is actually, it speaks to their health. They are all in good shape, although you could imagine they also might be a little bit nauseous after bobbing around there in the ocean for as long as they have. Two helicopters right now also are circling, waiting to pick up to scoop up the astronauts once they do emerge from the capsule. But as you also see there, they're building that collar that they call the front porch around the Orion capsule. We're hearing that they've been having some issues potentially with currents as well, which is another reason this is Taking a little bit longer than perhaps they expected. The earlier, before the splashdown had said that this would take, this whole process would take about 45 minutes to an hour. They have been on the, on the water now for more than an hour. So you know, we wait and we'll see what happens next. But the hatch is open, they have medical personnel on board with them and their status is green, meaning all clear from the health perspective at least at this point.
- [21:15]
C
Jen, that's a very helpful. Keep us updated if you hear any additional information. We're obviously continuing to watch this. Dr. Jameson, let me bring you again back into the conversation here because a part of this is obviously this is all about science and learning more about the atmosphere around us. Can you tell us more about what they'll be testing for, what they're hoping to learn?
- [21:39]
F
Why two hours? Why two hours?
- [21:42]
H
I'm sorry. So what they'll be testing for, looking at the astronauts health, they'll be looking at all of those things that Jim Bajan was talking about which is whether cardiac, how the cardiovascular system is adapting coming back on Earth. They'll probably take blood samples and things like that later on to look at things like how your immune system's working. So there's a lot of things that happen to the body that we really want to categorize. If you're talking about why we go up into space, what do we look at when we get there? Whether it's using the moon as a base to look back at the Earth or even understanding the geology and the history of the moon. It helps us to understand about our planet and how we might evolve. So you can actually use space as a platform. When we look back at the earth we can look at the agricultural systems, we can look at rivers we can map. We can even do things with sort of telling the spread of diseases by some of the geographical features. There's so many things that you can do from space as a platform. And so if that's what you're talking about, the science, those are that pieces that are just from that perspective. And then you can go even deeper. Looking at energy systems, looking at understanding how where was people. We always talk about our cell phones and our GPS systems that we use really easily. We asked Siri, Bertha, whoever to tell us how to get to a place we're holding a space receiver in our hand. It's really permeated all of our society right now.
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C
It's completely fascinating. That was exactly what I was asking and that was so interesting to hear about. Jim, let Me ask you, just as somebody who has lived a version of this before, where do you hope this goes? Where do you hope the space program goes from here? What do you hope this does for the space program?
- [23:44]
G
Well, it was really, to me, heartening to see the, the attention that, you know, both the media and the public has had with this flight since it's been so long. You know, it's been over 50 years since we've orbited the moon. And to see how, I mean, let's face it, the majority of the people alive in the United States right now weren't alive when Apollo 8 circled the moon in December of 68. So it had a new fascination, I think, that many of us lived through before didn't look quite that way. And I think it's been disappointing to many of us that things have gone so slowly in recent years. And maybe this will help reinvigorate the program, how they're going to go forward now. And, you know, they've looked at the schedule for next year. You know, they're planning to do some of the checkout flights in orbit before they go back to the moon, to actually, you know, go around the moon and then finally land. So this is like the stepping stone. This is a stepping stone, you know, for exploration in general to the moon. So we learn how to operate there more on a more permanent basis and then with the thoughts, of course, to go to Mars. So this is the first step and I think, as May said earlier, it's good to see us finally get started and now to continue to support that because it's, there are technical challenges, but it's as much as anything, it's also a financial challenge, you know, you know, we can do this. It's. Do we decide to make the commitment to do so and, and I think maybe this will help it be more real to the public and allow it to continue in this way because I think it also stimulates interest amongst kids in school as well. You know, a lot of the technical fields that become more proficient in that we would like to see happen, and it helps motivate them to see how that can be used.
- [25:21]
C
As a mother of a 7 and 10 year old, I can tell you, has definitely captured the minds and imagination of our youth. Josh, I understand you have some updates on what we're about to see or what we may be expecting to see shortly.
- [25:34]
F
Yeah. So, Jen, I think it seems really imminent finally that we're going to see the astronauts emerging from that space capsule, that raft that now extends from the front of it. It's actually a separate raft that they had inflated just off camera, and they just pulled it right next to Integrity. That is the front porch we've been talking about. It's literally just a raft in front of the exit hatch or entry hatch to Integrity. And we're in a few minutes, maybe hopefully even less than that, we're going to start seeing, one at a time, the astronauts being helped out. Of course, this helicopter is now going around the wrong side of the capsule as we wait for this to happen. But eight people are on board the space capsule right now. There are the four astronauts and then four members of the medical team, one for each astronaut. It's hard to see, Jim, but it looks like there's something happening now. Yeah.
- [26:28]
C
Ali Velshi, I hear you're back at a camera. I'm so grateful for that. Tell us what, what you're. We're watching here, what you're waiting for, anything you've observed over the last 20 minutes.
- [26:41]
D
Well, look, I, first of all, I. This is the part where none of us have to be in space to realize that when you're at the end of the journey, you just want to get off and get out. The hatch opening was a big deal because at least they get some fresh air. They're getting out. It's going to be fine. You know, when you think about the successes and the failures in space, they all add up to successes, right? Even when things go horribly wrong, we learn and we're able to do more. And the thing that occurs to me as I've been watching this for the last hour and a half or so, is that this is the history. There are things happening in this very moment that will not be replicated again because they'll figure out how to manage the rafts or the radio communications. And the next time this happens, including the next time when we land a crew on the moon for the first time in more than 50 years, other little things will also go wrong. But in the course of a day, lots of things go wrong. In the course of a space mission, lots of things can go wrong. Some of them have historically been deadly. Most of them are not. Most of them are small matters that are adjusted and they debrief on and they get better. And here's the thing. People like us never learn of these things, right? The experts who we've got on right now, these remarkable astronauts with whom we're speaking, they know of these things. They have the stories of the little things that went wrong that got fixed. We'll Never know about it. But some invention will occur, some improvement will occur, some success will occur because of the things that we're watching right now, the lessons that we're learning right now. So to me, this just all feels like this remarkable unfolding of history. And when you look back at any of the great stories in history, any of the great moments in history, they were plagued with all sorts of little failures and errors and little doors that didn't open and radios that didn't work and lights that didn't go on or off. And again, the stakes are very high in space. When that goes wrong, things can go very wrong. But nothing went very wrong on this trip. A few little things, things went wrong, and that continues. But the overall success of this mission puts us back in a game that Jen, I think you agree, and on behalf of your kids, we agree. This is where we need to be. This is what little kids need to be watching and say, I want to grow up and be one of these people who I'm watching on TV right now rescuing those astronauts, being those astronauts building those spaceships. This is a big leap forward for us in 2026.
- [29:00]
C
No doubt about it. Science is cool, and this is a very shining example of that. Jim, you did such an excellent job of describing what we were watching. And I'm looking at the screen right now. We see a number of people. The hatch is open. We can see people working to exit. Talk to us about what you're seeing here and also the order I know that the commander is going to be exiting last. Is there any other particular order we should be watching here as people are watching this include to their televisions?
- [29:31]
G
Well, I think the, as you say, the commander is going to be last, along with the Canadian astronaut, and the other two are going to come out first, I believe is the way it was briefed. And that's probably what it'll be. Right now they're just trying to choreograph getting folks out. But what was just said before I think is extremely important. I like to touch on the crews when they come out. A lot of people think that's the end of the mission. They come out of here, they finish their physicals and then they go home. And in fact, fact, you'll spend at least as much time as the mission debriefing all the things that went on during the mission. You'll be sitting there with checklists. You'll be talking to technicians, engineers, all types of folks, where you go through every part of the mission about how it went, what didn't go well. What could go better? What we do next time and give people inputs that you don't get strictly out of the telemetry and the instrumentation and data that comes back. So the. The mission is far as far as the crew's concerned. This job is not halfway through. There's still quite a bit more that goes on with this. And the point that made before, I think, is also really important. I think every crew member, I think they all know it intellectually. But when they come back, I think especially from your first mission, you realize, you know, what a tenuous position you've been in and how everything had to go right, otherwise you wouldn't be coming back. And the thousands of people, not just that we see on the screen here, but the thousands of workers, people in design, all sorts of people, have to do their job well with the diligence and the attention to detail that it takes to make everything work together and come out right, which it does most of the time. And the fact that things don't go right. I mean, I don't even like to look as a failure. We're learning and we get better as we continue to do that. And I think everybody's dedicated to that. And there's usually good free communication to emphasize that. That the point is, you know, the common goal, that everyone has brought everybody together and that everybody's diligent to try to continue to improve all the time. And I think that's one of the thing. As a crew member, you just feel very thankful to be part of it. And then all the people and effort that it takes, the people, you know, which is only a small percentage, and the far greater group that you never have met, but that you've really trusted
- [31:42]
C
your life to give us a sense. Because I think this is such a fascinating part of this. All of the important people, from the Navy to the technicians to people, were looking right there. I think that must be a picture. Oh, yes, it is. From San Diego, From Mission Control. Somewhere in San Diego. Yes, it is. Okay, all of the people involved. What is the scope? What are the numbers for people watching out there? Is it Houston? I'm sorry. That is a picture of Houston, everybody.
- [32:08]
G
It's Houston.
- [32:08]
C
Yeah, yeah, it's Houston. What are the numbers we're talking about in terms of the size of the number, number of people considered to be a part of the mission?
- [32:16]
G
Oh, I mean, it depends on how far you want to go. It goes in the thousands. But even directly when you see mission. And people would call that the front room and those are the people that, the consoles that have labels of their position, such as the CAPCOM flight director, et cetera, and they're wearing a headset. And there's probably anywhere from as little as I would say five to 10 to 80 people behind them that are whispering in their ear, telling them what's going on. And they're the traffic cop for that information. So that when you hear the flight director go around the room to say, are we ready for deorbit? And you'll hear people say, go. And that sort of thing. They're, they're synthesizing all this information to make that work and the, the, the dedication of all those folks. And they're. Every bit is involved and, you know, you'll see that, you know, the, the cheering and the applause, et cetera, in the mission control room. And there's many more, like, you know, 20 fold more people than that that are in what are called the back rooms that are part of that. And then there's people at the, at the various contractors that are also feeding them information real time during the mission and, and in preparation for the mission. So it's literally that are part of this, and they all play an important role. And sometimes it's hard to understand that until you've watched the show.
- [33:33]
C
It looks like. I don't mean to interrupt you there. It looks like we see one person coming out there right on the screen. I don't know if we have any identity for who that might be. We'll keep you abreast, everybody watching as we learn identities of people who are emerging. We'll keep watching. I'm sorry. Keep going there, Jim. I just wanted to keep the audience updated.
- [33:52]
G
Yeah, no, that's fine. You have probably better view than I do on zoom here. But the, But I think that's the thing. It's. It really, you know, as May said. I think she said very well. It's a, It's a team effort. And I think, you know, that sounds like a corny thing, I think, to some people, but it really is. If you're part of that, you really appreciate the, the seriousness which with everybody takes the, you know, the tasks that they have before them and that they do that all the time. And it's, you know, it's. And they're doing it because it's almost like a calling, I think, for most of the folks. That's how they do it. And they're really dedicated to getting it done. Here you can see the crew coming out. They're in the orange suit and just
- [34:26]
C
to give you an update everybody, and I'm sorry again to interrupt you, the first astronaut who came out is Christina Cook, according to our reporting. Keep going, Jim, keep going.
- [34:37]
G
Yeah, no, you're right. Yeah. The orange suits will be what the crews are all wearing. So you'll be able to tell that's who it is. If they're in an orange suit, it's one of the crew members. Looks like there's one sitting down. It might be interesting.
- [34:48]
C
Yeah. We will keep everyone updated on the names as we learn them. Dr. Jamieson, let me bring you back into this. As you're watching, there are two out now as we're, we've watched two of the astronauts emerge. We've just talked about all of the people involved in this mission. What's going through your head as you, as you're watching this?
- [35:06]
H
Really for me, it's observing what's happening and looking at the logistics. And I wanted to reflect back on something Jim was talking, was saying. So I was also an engineer and a medical doctor and when I went to Kennedy Space center that was the very first job I had. And I was in the first class after the Challenger accident. And my first job was working at Kennedy. And having been a chemical engineer, I was used to these large distillation chambers and things like that. But our toler, the tolerances that you have with space exploration are so small. So you have maybe something the shuttle may be the size of a, of a, you know, a 727, but it's, it has to be made it to something like a solid rocket booster that has high explosives to within hundreds if not thousands of a tolerance of an inch tolerance. And so it's really something that.
- [36:05]
C
Jameson, I'm sorry to interrupt you. I just, I just wanted to give one more update. It sounds like Christina Cook was the first, Victor Glover was the second and the third I think we may know the name of. I'll keep you updated on that. It was Jeremy Hanson. Okay, continue. I apologize for interrupting you just wanted to keep the audience updated. Go ahead.
- [36:23]
H
I just wanted to say that when you talk about teamwork, the people who are doing the things with the mating the vehicles, making sure the tile is correct, many of those are not four year degree engineers. So I think we have to understand that skilled technicians and everyone and this is really a very different kind of enterprise than many of the ones that we're used to in terms of the tolerances and what you have to do. And I wanted to build on the idea about the excitement that this brings. I think it brings excitement to adults, too. Very frequently we think of space exploration as for the children. But I bet, Jim, you got the adult who would tell the kids to go over and ask you questions, too, right? Because it is just something that's exciting to humans, period. Not just the vehicles, not just the rockets, but the sky. This thing that has been with us, you know, since we first. You know.
- [37:25]
C
I'm sorry to interrupt you again, making this very important point. The Commander Wiseman just emerged as well. So all four of them are out. And you are making a beautiful point. So. So please continue to make it. And I couldn't agree with you more.
- [37:36]
H
I don't know how to get back this week, Erin, but I just really want us to understand that this is important for everyone. And it's not just about the scientists, and it's not just about the STEM and the technical people, because the policies are made by people who are in the social sciences. I think Jim mentioned. Will we have the commitment to go further and keep this moving along? We only will have that if people understand how space has beneficially impacted their lives. They will see that both by getting the information out and, you know, talking about all the things and how space is blended into their lives, but it also will be from the people who are involved. So I was very much struck by the fact that on this mission we had such a diverse, inclusive group of crew members, and that reflects where we've evolved as a society over the years. I think that's really important. And that when we look at this mission, it's not just about the United States. We have lots of countries integrated in it. We have people who. Who grew up in, you know, emerging nations, who were engineers, who've contributed to this mission. So it's really the fact that we can do our best job when we have more people involved. And I have to reiterate that over and over again. The more perspectives we bring, the better we'll be able to use the capabilities that space affords us to the benefit of everyone.
- [39:20]
C
That is such an important point. I feel like there are probably a lot of little girls and boys, adults, too, but little girls and boys, too, who are growing up and see themselves.
- [39:30]
H
Don't forget about that.
- [39:31]
C
Adults, too, but people who see themselves in these astronauts. And that's an incredibly power. And the people involved, and that's an incredibly powerful message to send. Josh, we've shown some visuals of mission control. I think we all breathed a sigh of relief, even though we knew they were okay as we saw the astronauts emerge in the orange suits. Tell us what the reaction was there.
- [39:54]
F
Oh, well, Jen, you know, Mission Control and I was in Mission Control the other day here at Johnson Space Center. It, you know, during the mission had maybe a dozen and a half, two dozen people working there during any given shift. Right now we keep seeing images that switch back and forth on this feed from NASA. It's jam packed. It's like wall to wall scientists and engineers. They've all gone in and we've been hearing, you know, ambient sound coming in from Mission Control on the feed. I'm listening in my other ear to the feed. And with each astronaut who emerged from Integrity, a giant cheer went up in Mission Control. You have to think about this, Jen. This has been a mission that, that has been in the works for well over a decade. This is a very long lead time in terms of planning and executing these things. And this was so fraught. This was really, if you think about it, the point of this mission was to prove that four people could survive. They did a lot of very important scientific exploration. They looked at things on the moon they needed to see. They took images that were very important. And there's lots of science that will be pulled from this mission. But primarily NASA needed to know that this was a viable way to send human beings into deep space and back to the moon. And it worked, right? The biggest issues that they had, I mean, if you think about this, the real snags that they hit were all so pedestrian. They had a problem with their Microsoft Outlook early in the mission. They had a problem with a toilet. And now, now they've had this problem communicating, once back on Earth with the people who were to get them out of the capsule. But this whole extrication process was supposed to, we were told, take around 45 minutes to an hour. It's really only been about an hour and 20 minutes. So wasn't much of a delay at the end of the day, after the massive success that this project has had, and now they're able to move forward and proceed with this very lofty goal of returning humankind to the moon and then building a base from which deep space exploration can be managed. And so it is a victory for NASA, it is a victory for the administration which has been pushing this. And at the end of the day, a very good day here at Johnson Space center here in Houston.
- [42:14]
C
Ali Vilshi, Josh Einiger, Moses small, Jim Bajan, Dr. Mae Jemison. I cannot thank you all enough. I learned from all of you. I felt even more inspired watching this, talking to all of you. I'm so grateful for your time. Thank you again. We're going to take a very quick break, but we have so much more news to get to tonight. J.D. vance is about to arrive in Pakistan for negotiations with Iran. What could go wrong there? Rob Malley and John Kirby are going to join me to talk about that. Congressman Jamie Raskin is going to join us. We'll be right back. We gather here tonight to bring women back to their rightful place.
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C
Early today, just ahead of the planned negotiations between the United States and Iran this weekend, Donald Trump posted something that seemed to downplay pretty critical detail. He said, quote, the Iranians don't seem to realize they have no cars other than a short term extortion of the world by using international waterways, that is no cards except the one that has shut down 20% of the world's oil flow. That's a, I'd say a pretty important card, wouldn't you? And new data today showed how that how Iran's control of the Strait of Hormuz is wreaking havoc on the American economy. Gas prices continue to spike as Trump's war continues and the Strait of Hormuz remains closed. The price of regular gasoline in the United States jumped 25% from February to March, the highest monthly percentage increase on record and other costs are rising sharply as well. The Consumer Price Index report showed that inflation jumped to 3.3% compared with the same time just last year. Not to mention that overall prices rose nearly a full percent over the course of March, the highest monthly gain since the peak of the post pandemic inflation crisis in June of 2022. And with Iran leveraging the Strait of Hormuz, that economic pain isn't going away anytime soon. So for most presidents, I mean, this would be a moment where you hunker down with your national security team and your economic team and figure out how the heck to get out of this mess. That's what you would do. But that wasn't Donald Trump's approach, because tonight he spent his time at a million dollar per person fundraising dinner for his super PAC being held at his winery in Charlottesville, Virginia. Now, on his way, he answered some questions from reporters and once again repeated his completely made up claims that Iran was militarily defeated and that the Strait of Hormuz would somehow open up automatically. And all of his fabricated bluster was even more bizarre, given there is a US Delegation led by his own vice president on its way to Pakistan for negotiations to end the war and open the strait or the that's their goal. And yet Trump doesn't seem to be at all bothered by the stakes.
- [46:11]
H
What's your backup plan?
- [46:12]
J
If there's some field open, you don't need a backup plan.
- [46:17]
C
You don't need a backup plan. I think you surely do need a backup plan. I mean, that's certainly putting a lot of pressure on the guy Trump has tapped to be the central player of these negotiations very much on purpose. And there's no evidence to date that Vance is up to the task or frankly interested in the task, to be honest, at all. Remember, this is what he said when asked about a key detail of the ceasefire on Wednesday.
- [46:40]
F
I haven't been involved in that because I've been busy doing stuff in Hungary.
- [46:45]
C
I haven't been involved in the war. The guy I work with started because I've been busy campaigning for an authoritarian sweetheart in Hungary, as one does. So what exactly has JD Vance been involved in? Well, here's how he described his role in the Talk so far. Mr. Vice President Caroline Levitt said you played a key role in these talks. Could you help us understand some details about that role?
- [47:10]
F
Well, I appreciate Carolyn saying that. I mean, you know, my key role was I sat on the phone a lot, I answered a lot of phone calls. I Made a lot of phone calls. And again, I'm happy about where we are.
- [47:21]
C
Isn't that nice? He's happy. Caroline Lovett said that. Though it feels like quite a leap from making a lot of phone calls, doesn't it, to being the guy in charge of negotiating face to face with your geopolitical adversary? I don't know. Feels like a leap to me. Now, to add to the pressure on Vance, Trump seems pretty eager to put the responsibility for resolving this war entirely on his shoulders.
- [47:45]
J
He's doing a great job and he's working on the deal, right? How's that moving? Is it okay? The big deal, you see it happening. So if it doesn't Happen, I'm blaming J.D. vance. If it does happen, I'm taking full credit.
- [48:04]
D
What did you tell J.D.
- [48:05]
C
vance before he left, sir?
- [48:07]
J
Well, I wish him luck. He's got a big thing. I will find out what's going on.
- [48:13]
C
Like, he's an observer of the process of the war he started. What could go wrong? Joining me now are two people I spent a lot of time with when we were all a part of the team negotiating the Iran nuclear agreement that Donald Trump, of course, tore up. Rob Malley was President Obama's lead negotiator on President Obama's 2015 nuclear deal. And Admiral John Kirby is the former Pentagon spokesperson, former State Department spokesperson, and now an MSNow national security analyst. Rob, let me start with you. Just as. Just as Vice President Vance was taking off for Pakistan today, the guy he's supposed to be sitting across from in the negotiations, the speaker of Iran's parliament said that negotiations in Pakistan can't even begin until there's a ceasefire in Lebanon and Iran's assets are unblocked. I know obviously the Iranians are often speaking to the audience of people in their own country, but what did you make of that? I mean, is there a chance that they don't show up or what do you think?
- [49:10]
K
No, I think they will show up. I think there was a lot of maneuvering before they got there. Obviously, the Iranians know that getting a deal is more important to Trump than it is to them. I mean, this is just one of those classical cases where you look at both sides. Best alternative to a negotiated agreement. For President Trump, it means the Strait of Hormuz is closed. The economy is in a tailspin, inflation is rising. His politics are down the tube. For Iran, yes, the war could continue, but they still control the Strait of Hormuz. They still survive. So they fell in a position of strength. So they maneuvered before the beginning. Hard to imagine that they would go there and embarrass the Pakistani hosts and not even have indirect talk talks with the US we'll see if they're direct, but my suspicion is that they will occur tomorrow.
- [49:54]
C
All right, well, we're going to be watching. Let me. Admiral Kirby, you have prepped secretaries of defense, secretaries of state, presidents. You've spoken yourself publicly during negotiations. I mean, so little of what Trump is saying right now really makes sense. Sometimes we try to say, maybe he means this, maybe he means that, and often it's like garbly gook, and we don't know what it means. I mean, he's threatened to end Iran's civilization. He says the strait will open on its own. What do you think? Because a lot of when you're prepping a president or a secretary of defense or state or speaking publicly from the government is thinking about how the people you'll be negotiating with are going to digest what you're saying. How do you think what he is saying is being digested? I mean, by the Pakistanis, by the Iranians, by others who were involved in this negotiating process?
- [50:41]
E
I suspect the first reaction that they're having, Jen, is just continued distrust. I mean, remember the last time they agreed to sit down at the negotiating table with Mr. Kushner and Mr. Wyckoff? You know, two attacks happened. So they feel like they've been burned in the past by all this rhetoric pre negotiation and during negotiation. So I suspect that when they hear him talk like that, it just reinforces their level of distrust. And I think that probably helps, you know, feed the bluster that you're hearing coming out of Tehran, the tough talk before they go in. They're not going into this. They're certainly going in, as Rob says, with amount, with a good degree of leverage, but they're also going to go in with a high degree of mistrust over this administration and their motives.
- [51:25]
C
Rob, you alluded to this and sort of the Iranians, what they're watching, what they know and what they see. I mean, everybody, when they're preparing for a negotiation, knows what kind of the dossy of the country they're negotiating with is, right? And they know that. They've probably seen the economic data here at home, the impact of rising gas prices. They know the midterm elections are coming up. They know all these things. How do you think all of that factors into their dynamics?
- [51:54]
K
So, again, I mean, I do think you got to compare both sides every day. The war goes on and the US And Israel strike Iran, Iran. It's diminishing marginal returns for how much they could do, how much more they're going to hit. Every day that the Detroit, the Strait of Hormuza is closed, it hurts the American economy even more. And so it's increasing marginal returns. And so that imbalance is something that the Iranians are very well aware of now. That doesn't mean that they don't want to deal because they are suffering, their economy is suffering, they're being battered, the infrastructure is taking a real hit. But what it does mean is that this won't, contrary to what President Trump has said, it won't be quick, quick, it won't be easy, and it certainly won't end with Iran's capitulation.
- [52:33]
C
Admiral Kirby, I know what I've said. Not a lot of what he says doesn't make sense. I'm going to ask you about something he said just because it's interesting. He said today that the Strait of Hormuz, if it isn't reopened, we'll be able to finish it off. Now, we don't know what he means by that. He's threatened military action before. We don't know that that's what they're going to do. But give us just, just a sense as they sort of allude to military action to retake the strait as opposed to negotiations, which I think everybody thinks is the preference here. What does that look like? What would that require in terms of manpower, in terms of resources?
- [53:09]
E
Yeah, it would be a huge undertaking militarily. I'm not prepared to say that it couldn't be done militarily, but to do it and to sustain an opening, a safe opening of the structure strait, would require months and months of hard work by not just the United States military, but frankly, militaries in the region and hopefully even militaries who aren't in the region, such as our European allies. I mean, just the convoys alone, Jan, just I did that mission back in 88. That's time intensive, ship intensive. We had 500 plus ships back then. We have only 300 or so now. We would need help to do it. And the convoys are slow and you've got, you've got to be constantly on your toes going through that narrow strait. But also you need eyes overhead. You're going to need constant intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance assets flying over the strait so you can see with an unblinking eye everything that's moving in that water 24 7. And you might even have to take militarily through land forces, some of those islands on both sides of the strait that the Iranians have been able to use to launch attacks from, from. It's a huge undertaking. Again, not impossible militarily, but huge. And there's just really no way the United States could do it on its own for any sustained period of time.
- [54:25]
C
Rob Malley, Admiral John Kirby, you both know a whole lot about a lot of things. Thank you so much for joining me on a Friday night as we all look ahead to the negotiations while be watching. I really appreciate it. Okay, we have to take a quick break, but the Last Word has Congressman Eugene Vindman standing by. And we'll be right, right back. That does it for me tonight. You can catch the show Tuesday through Friday at 9pm Eastern on Ms. Now. And don't forget to follow the show on Blue sky, Instagram and TikTok.
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