As Trump's parade of failure marches on, his distraction trick loses potency

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Briefing with Jen Psaki — "As Trump's Parade of Failure Marches On, His Distraction Trick Loses Potency"

Release Date: May 9, 2025
Host: Jen Psaki, MSNBC

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of "The Briefing with Jen Psaki," host Jen Psaki delves deep into the tumultuous landscape of President Donald Trump's second term, highlighting a series of administrative failures and dwindling public support. Through incisive analysis and interviews with key figures, the episode underscores how Trump's strategies are increasingly backfiring, eroding his political capital.

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Trump's Nomination Woes

Ed Martin’s Controversial Appointment

The episode opens with a detailed examination of Trump's appointment of Ed Martin as the U.S. Attorney for Washington, D.C. Initially hailed as a strategic move to strengthen his administration’s stance, Martin's tenure quickly became mired in controversy.

• Chris Hayes explains at [02:15], “Ed Martin has zero experience as a prosecutor. His mishandling of the January 6th probe, including dismissing cases of pardoned rioters and attempting to indict Senator Chuck Schumer, has drawn widespread criticism.”

Despite Trump's apparent support, Martin's actions, such as sending poorly worded letters to various officials, ultimately led to his nomination being withdrawn due to insufficient support in the Republican-controlled Senate. Trump attempted to salvage the situation by nominating Jeanine Pirro, a former Fox News host, as the interim U.S. Attorney, further inflaming criticisms of his appointments.

• Trump is quoted at [05:42], saying, “Ed is unbelievable. Don’t worry about Ed Martin. He’s going to land on his feet.”

Failed Surgeon General Nomination

Shortly after the Martin fiasco, Trump withdrew his nominee for Surgeon General, replaced by a social media wellness influencer endorsed by Health and Human Services Secretary RFK Jr. This move, highlighted by Chris Hayes at [07:10], “marks the 21st Fox News personality in Trump's administration, signaling a troubling trend of appointing media figures over qualified professionals.”

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Trade Deals and Tariff Turmoil

Flawed Trade Agreements

Trump's aggressive trade strategies continue to falter, with numerous attempts at renaming geographic regions and imposing high tariffs proving ineffective and unpopular.

• At [09:25], Stephanie Ruhl comments, “Trump’s so-called trade deals, like the one with the UK, are nothing more than vaporware. Real trade agreements require detailed negotiations and bipartisan support, neither of which Trump seems capable of securing.”

Impact on the Economy and Public Sentiment

The administration’s tariff policies have led to significant economic disruptions, including slowdowns at U.S. ports and increased costs for consumers.

• Jen Psaki highlights at [10:50], “Trump’s tariffs have been stopped by courts over 200 times, reflecting deep legal and economic opposition.”

Polling data reveals a stark decline in Trump's approval ratings. A recent Economist YouGov poll cited at [11:15], shows a 10-point drop in approval, with 75% of Americans believing tariffs will increase prices.

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Judicial Setbacks and Public Opinion

Court Rulings Against Trump

The Trump administration faces relentless judicial challenges, with over 200 court orders halting his policies.

• Chris Hayes states at [12:05], “Courts have issued more than 200 orders stopping the Trump administration's actions since he took office, a testament to the legal resistance his policies are encountering.”

Deteriorating Public Support

Public sentiment continues to sour against Trump, exacerbated by his inability to pass significant legislation and the frequent legal defeats.

• According to Chris Hayes at [11:20], “The president is losing in courts more than he’s winning, with his policies being stopped over 200 times.”

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State Attorneys General Push Back

Letitia James on Combating Trump’s Policies

A significant segment features New York Attorney General Letitia James, who discusses the collective efforts of state AGs in challenging Trump's administration.

• Letitia James at [28:18] declares, “We are filing lawsuits to stand up for Social Security, child care providers, veterans, LGBTQ members, and more, directly opposing the harmful policies of the federal government.”

James elaborates on specific cases, such as defending birthright citizenship against Trump's attempts to overturn it, emphasizing the constitutional battles underway.

• At [29:33], she asserts, “I took an oath to uphold the Constitution and protect the residents of New York from any harm coming from the federal government.”

Investigations into Trump's Inner Circle

James also touches upon investigations into potential insider trading within Trump's inner circle, underscoring ongoing legal scrutiny.

• Chris Hayes asks at [28:53], “Are you looking into potential insider trading by the president’s inner circle related to tariff policies?”

James responds firmly, “We are continuing to look at it and will report when we have substantial information.”

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Democratic Strategies Amidst Protests

Harnessing Public Dissent

The episode shifts focus to grassroots movements and Democratic leaders strategizing to channel public dissent into political gains. Congressman Greg Kazar and Michigan State Senator Mallory McMarrow share insights on engaging with constituents and broadening the Democratic tent.

• Greg Kazar at [37:16] emphasizes, “We need to demonstrate that Democrats are not just opposing Trump, but actively fighting for policies that make tangible differences in people’s lives.”

• Mallory McMarrow adds at [39:12], “People want officials who listen and provide real solutions to everyday problems, like affordable childcare and clean water.”

Overcoming Purity Tests

Both leaders advocate for reducing ideological purity tests to attract a broader base, focusing on shared economic and social concerns rather than partisan divides.

• Mallory McMarrow states at [42:42], “We need to strip away labels and connect with people on common issues like safe neighborhoods, great schools, and economic security.”

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Conclusion

As Trump's administration grapples with mounting failures—from botched nominations and ineffective trade policies to relentless legal battles—the once potent distraction tactics are losing their effectiveness. Public opinion continues to swing against him, while Democratic leaders and state attorneys general actively counteract his policies through legal challenges and strategic community engagement. This episode of "The Briefing with Jen Psaki" encapsulates the critical juncture at which Trump's presidency stands, highlighting the increasing polarization and the resilient opposition mounting against his agenda.

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Notable Quotes:

• Ed Martin Appointment:
  “Ed Martin has zero experience as a prosecutor... He's sending out sloppy, poorly worded letters aimed at members of Congress, protesters, journalists...” — Chris Hayes [02:15]

• Trump on Ed Martin:
  “Ed is unbelievable. Don’t worry about Ed Martin. He’s going to land on his feet.” — Donald Trump [05:42]

• Stephanie Ruhl on Trade Deals:
  “Trump’s so-called trade deals... are nothing more than vaporware.” — Stephanie Ruhl [09:25]

• Letitia James on Legal Actions:
  “We are filing lawsuits to stand up for Social Security, child care providers, veterans, LGBTQ members, and more...” — Letitia James [28:18]

• Greg Kazar on Democratic Strategy:
  “We need to demonstrate that Democrats are not just opposing Trump, but actively fighting for policies that make tangible differences in people’s lives.” — Greg Kazar [37:16]

• Mallory McMarrow on Connecting with Voters:
  “People want officials who listen and provide real solutions to everyday problems...” — Mallory McMarrow [39:12]

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This comprehensive summary provides an in-depth look into the multifaceted challenges facing Trump's administration and the dynamic responses from Democratic leaders and state attorneys general, offering listeners a nuanced understanding of the current political climate.

Transcript

[David Frost]

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[Jane Fonda]

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[Chris Hayes]

The war is being escalated in the most tragic, cruel way.

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[Chris Hayes]

At this point, we are all pretty familiar with Trump's flood the zone strategy. I mean, we've all seen it. This is what he does all the time. Move fast, try to bend as many things as possible, throw so much at us at all times, including some completely bizarre obsessions with renaming things, like lots of things, like the Gulf of Mexico, for example. It's all kind of hard to keep up with sometimes. I mean, that's the point, though. He wants to make it harder for us to figure out what's real and what's just Trumpy and bluster. But one way to cut through some of that, I think, to figure out what's real, what he really cares about, what's going on in his head a little bit, is to go back to January 20th. And what did Trump prioritize when he was sworn into office a second time? What did he care about enough to do immediately? Well, one of the first things he did, really pretty much the very first thing he did after taking the oath of office on January 20, is he installed this guy as the top federal Prosecutor in Washington, D.C. now, the U.S. attorney's office in Washington, as you probably know, is one of the most important, most powerful prosecutor's offices in the country. And for the last few years, it has been in charge of literally the largest criminal probe in American history, the investigation into the January 6th attack on the US Capitol. And the moment Donald Trump took office again, he put a guy named Ed Martin in charge of that office. Now, Ed Martin has zero experience as a prosecutor. And he was also literally at the Capitol on January 6th. And he described it this way, he said it was great, compared it to Mardi Gras, of all things. Now, after that, he then later went on to serve as a defense lawyer for several Trump supporters who were charged with attacking police officers during the insurrection. He was, he was defending them. Once Trump named him a U.S. attorney in Washington, the first thing that Ed Martin did was dismiss the cases of about 1600 Capitol rioters pardoned by Trump, including at least one whom Ed Martin still represented as a defense lawyer. One person he was defending as a lawyer, he helped pardon him. Then he set about demoting and firing federal prosecutors who had worked on those January 6th cases. That's what he did next. He also tried to indict Chuck Schumer, an effort so weird and outlandish, he apparently couldn't even get Trump Justice Department officials to sign off on that one. Ed Martin also sent out sloppy, poorly worded, vaguely threatening letters aimed at members of Congress, protesters, journalists, even medical journals he decided he needed to target. In other words, Trump seemed to be getting, I guess, I mean, exactly what he wanted out of one of his very first hires. Someone who would use the power Trump had bestowed on him to gleefully go after Trump's enemies and reward his friends. And Trump clearly, really, really wanted Ed Martin in that top prosecutor job. And he seemed to really, really like having him there. And with Ed Martin's interim appointment coming to an end this month, all Trump had to do to keep Ed Martin there permanently was to get the Republican controlled United States Senate to confirm him to that post. But today, Trump was basically forced to pull Ed Martin's nomination. Now, he did acknowledge, which is true, that he was pulling the nomination because Martin didn't have enough support in the Senate, which again, is controlled by the President's own party. Now, there's a lot of things to pull from and draw from as to what the final straw was here. I mean, it could have been the dozens and dozens of appearances on Russian state television that Ed Martin failed to tell senators about and also did. Maybe it was the multiple podcast interviews and glowing praise Ed Martin gave to a January 6 rioter whom federal prosecutors described as a Nazi sympathizer, in part because of the photos of him with a literal Hitler mustache. But to be clear, Trump still really liked Ed Martin. I mean, when he announced he was pulling his nomination today, the President said, quote, I just want to say Ed is unbelievable. I mean, I guess that's one way to describe this guy. Don't worry about Ed Martin. He's going to land on his feet. Trump says he's going to install Martin in the Justice Department as what else? The pardon attorney, as well as directing some kind of investigation into the weaponization of government under the Biden regime, as it's described, whatever on earth that means. And then tonight, just in the last few hours, Trump announced he is naming a new interim D.C. u.S. Attorney. I am not joking. I was not joking earlier. I'm not joking now when I said he picked former Fox News host Jeanine Pirro, shown right there. I know you know who she is. And for those who are keeping Square at home. That will bring the number of Fox News personalities in Trump's administration to at least 21. And that count might have even gotten higher if, if Trump had not also just pulled his nominee for Surgeon general, a former Fox News contributor as well. Now, in her place, Trump says he is nominating a completely wackadoodle social media wellness influencer promoted by Health and Human Services Secretary RFK Jr. What could possibly go wrong there? He was asked today about this nominee, his nominee, his new Surgeon general nominee who the person he supposedly wants in this job. And what he said to reporters is, I don't know her, man. I mean, this White House really is a well oiled machine at all times. Never surprises you. This all comes, of course, after the Trump administration polled its nominee to be director of the CDC several weeks ago. Now, they yanked that nominee less than an hour before his Senate hearing was set to begin when it became clear that he also didn't have enough support. And of course, who can forget the debacle of the Matt Gaetz nomination for Attorney general. Who can forget that? I mean, it basically collapsed under the weight of its own absurdity in just a couple of days, but still happened. I mean, that was still one of the first things Trump did. But when it comes, just come back to Ed Martin. When it comes to his demise as U.S. attorney and that nomination today, here's something I think is worth paying attention to. I mean, the man who appears to have sealed Ed Martin's fate is none other than North Carolina Republican Senator Thom Tillis. When Thom Tillis announced that he would vote against Martin, and this was rumored for days, but when he announced he was going to vote against him, the nomination was basically doomed. It's not like, also like Thom Tillis hasn't voted for Trump nominees before. I mean, even when he found them very objectionable, in fact, he's voted for all of them. You may also remember then I did, that it was Thom Tillis vote that saved the nomination of Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth back in January. It looked like Hegseth's nomination might fail, and for good reason, obviously. I mean, he was a Fox News weekend host who had run two small nonprofits into the ground, been credibly accused by multiple sources of excessive drinking, and paid a settlement to a woman who accused him of rape. All of those things, although he denies all those allegations. But Senator Tillis was reportedly so disgusted, understandably, that he was working feverishly behind the scenes to kill the Hegseth nomination, including, and this is a big step for a Republican senator by securing a sworn affidavit from Hegseth's former sister in law, alleging drunken and threatening behavior toward his ex wife. It's a big step. You'd assume he'd opposed the nomination then. But then Trump threatened to back a primary challenger to Tillis in next year's election, and at the last minute, Tillis caved, giving U.S. defense Secretary Pete Hegseth. Welcome, everyone. Signal chats and all, all the things that come with Pete Hegsett. So that was January, not that long ago. What's different now? Why couldn't Trump get Tom Tillis to vote for his day one handpicked D.C. prosecutor? I mean, maybe, maybe less than four months into his second term, Donald Trump just doesn't have the juice he had a few months ago. I mean, it's not just the nominations. That's part of it. It's been kind of a parade of failures, though. I mean, Trump has passed basically no legislation. Though he did get Republicans in the House to pass a bill today renaming the Gulf of Mexico to the Gulf of America. So I guess he has that in his quiver. Who knows? The one Republican who voted no actually called the bill juvenile, which sounds pretty accurate. He's also faring a little better in the courts. I mean, a new analysis from Bloomberg today found that Trump is losing in court far more than he's winning by a lot, with his policies being stopped by courts more than 200 times times. And the polls continue to be just brutal for a president barely 100 days into his term. The latest Economist YouGov poll finds Trump's approval underwater by 10 points, with 52% of Americans disapproving of the job he's doing. A full 75% of Americans think Trump's tariffs will increase the prices they pay. And even among Republicans, I mean, just Republican poll respondents, the share who think tariffs will raise prices a lot has increased by 8 points just in the past two weeks. Now, today in the Oval Office, a reporter asked the President his thoughts on his tariffs causing a slowdown in traffic into US Ports and the thousands of dock workers and truck drivers who are now worried about their jobs as a result. Understandably, the president, in his response, appeared to think, that's all great. I mean, he said, quote in response, that means we lose less money. When I see that, that means we lose less money. Frankly, when I read this, I had to read it a couple times. I mean, I don't know who the we in that sentence is supposed to be. It's not the dock workers or the truck drivers. It's certainly not all the American consumers, people out there paying more for things. But at this point, we all know Donald Trump. We know what he does when things are going badly, when the polls aren't good, when nominations are blowing up, when he wants to try to change the narrative. He puts on a big show, announces some amazing deal as he brands it. And as we also know about Trump by now, the reality rarely lives up to the hype of the show. I mean, we got used to this during the first term, right? Remember back in 2018 when Trump held a flashy photo op outside racing Wisconsin to announce a $10 billion investment for a new manufacturing plant? You can see him there with the golden shovels. I mean, those golden shovels he used in that groundbreaking ceremony proved to literally be just another shiny object, right? Waving around to help distract us and make us think something was happening. Because the plan to actually build that large scale plant was very quickly abandoned. And the 13,000 jobs Trump had promised never actually materialized. There was also Trump's phase one trade agreement with China. Remember this? Which was signed at the White House amid a whole lot of fanfare in January of 2020. You can see it there on the video. Trump claimed that China would be spending an extra $200 billion buying American goods. And I mean, that sounds good, but how much of that extra $200 billion in American goods did China actually buy? None. The answer is none. 0. When the data eventually came out, it turned out that China had bought zero additional goods. He's been back at it in this term, too. Remember when he threatened Mexico and Canada with 25% tariffs and then backed off those tariffs, claiming he had struck amazing deals with our neighbors, gotten them to agree to major concessions? Then it all turned out that Canada and Mexico were actually just doing stuff they had already planned to do. So there was that. So it should really come as no surprise that the big breakthrough trade deal Trump announced with the UK today is not all it's cracked up to be. It's not really a trade deal at all. But that's not the point. The point is the show. My colleagues Chris Hayes and Stephanie Ruhl are standing by and they join me live in just 90 seconds.

[David Frost]

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[Chris Hayes]

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[David Frost]

Watch your favorite shows live.

[Chris Hayes]

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[David Frost]

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[Jeanine Pirro]

Citizens, since we each upgraded to Xfinity in our homes, the WI fi has been booming. It's fair to say our town has officially become a boom town.

[Chris Hayes]

Mayor, will I be able to drop into multiplayer gaming battles with low lag?

[Jeanine Pirro]

The lag won't be an issue, but your questionable skills may be.

[Jane Fonda]

And what if I have hundreds of.

[Chris Hayes]

Devices on the WI Fi? Purely hypothetical.

[Jeanine Pirro]

Seems like a lot, but sure, hundreds of devices all booming together with the Xfinity Gateway. Yes, friends and neighbors, with Xfinity, the WI Fi is booming.

[Chris Hayes]

Restrictions apply. Okay, if I had a nerdy study group about politics and policy, I'd want these two to be in it. I guess they're sort of in it. We're all sort of in it. Chris Hayes is, of course, the host of All In. Stephanie Rule is the host of the 11th Hour. Thank you, Chris, for staying around. Thank you, Stephanie, for being around early. I want to start with you, Chris. I mean, I watched your segment with Steve Liesman as he was describing this trade deal. Not a trade deal, whatever we're calling it, maybe we can redefine was also a day where Jeanine Pirro reentered the chat. Trump made some strange comments in the Oval Office today. You talked about and I talked about. What did you make of today?

[Stephanie Ruhl]

Well, I think the trade deal. I mean, I loved the clip of the China trade deal because I had actually forgotten that one. So that brought me back. And of course, it never was anything. The memory I had today watching the UK trade deal was there was this Friday, early in Covid, where he did this thing in the Rose Garden where he brought all these CEOs out and he did this whole dog and pony show. Google. Google's gonna have a test, like a new website, and then CVS is gonna have tests in the parking lot. Like, none of it was true. It was all completely vaporware. And when you scratch the surface on this, trade deals take a long time to negotiate. A, they have a lot of details that are real granular policy details. B, and C, he cannot make a deal. There is no deal to be done with him because anything that's actually gonna be binding is gonna have to go through Congress. He's not gonna do it. And the final thing, and this point that Steve made that I thought was important is the 10% wall around the country. He is absolutely tied to. Everything else might be negotiable, but tripling the current baseline tariff is something he really wants to do. And that itself is a huge, huge problem in terms of the macroeconomic productivity of the country.

[Letitia James]

And I would just say that 10% is exactly why yesterday, when everyone's like, I can't believe Jay Powell isn't going to cut rates, remember what the Fed chair said? He is concerned about uncertain. Our uncertain economic future. It's about that 10%. Right? That 10% is more than triple what it was a few months ago. So at least in the short term, that is going to be inflationary. And this is Great Britain, our closest ally. Okay? So while they're boasting like, we got this deal going, like, that's like saying, I opened the hottest restaurant in New York City. It's packed. Then you open the door and everybody eating in the restaurant is my family. Trump wants you to think. Right? Trump wants you to think this. This is the first of many. And listen, he has to create this framework. He's a showman. His back is against a wall when it comes to trade. We are three weeks out. We know that these ports, less and less cargo ships are coming in, and the ones that are coming in have less and less cargo on them. We're three weeks away from our store shelves, potentially looking like they did during COVID So Trump needs to sort of change the narrative and say, we've got something going. And yes, so he has a framework for a deal with Great Britain and, and almost 200 other countries, and I haven't even mentioned China behind it, where it's going to be 10% or more, and they haven't even gotten started.

[Chris Hayes]

I mean, one of the things, even though it's a fake trade deal, I love all these analogies. There's so many you could just make up about this case. And to Chris point, it takes years to negotiate trade deals. But one of the things that was telling today to me, and you talked about this a little bit, Chris, is there were British luxury carmakers and others who were kind of celebrating out there, right? A bunch of people were celebrating like that. And then when Trump was asked about the dock workers and truck drivers who are worried about losing their jobs because imports from China have slowed, which is a huge, real issue to Steph's points happening at the ports, he basically responded, that means we lose less money. I mean, it is a disconnection, maybe a misunderstanding of economics. But what did you make of that?

[Stephanie Ruhl]

It was shocking. And it was shocking. I mean, it's shocking. Not surprising, which is something you say about him a lot. But, I mean, first of all, just on the politics of this, I cannot get over the fact that there was a multi day news cycle of outrage because Nancy Pelosi had too much ice cream in her freezer during COVID Outrageous. Like, she's so out of touch. Like there's too much ice cream.

[Letitia James]

Like it was an expensive brand. Chris, it was a very high end.

[Chris Hayes]

Yes, it was something delicious.

[Stephanie Ruhl]

But I mean, here's the guy who's like literally the golden toilet guy. Okay? There's the golden toilet, the golden stroller around going and being like, you gotta give fewer toys and pencils to your kids. I don't care about the dock workers and the longshoremen. Like, and I, and I also think what's so striking about it too, and this is something that I think, honestly, Wall street still hasn't gotten through their head, is that's not a talking point. Like when he says, that's good, we're losing less money, he means it like he sees every dollar, US dollar, all the industry that supports as essentially loss. And if he's serious about that, we are in for a world of hurt. And he really does appear to be.

[Letitia James]

Okay. But hold on, I'm gonna disagree with Chris on one point only. Because when the President said that this morning we're going to lose less money, I actually sent that in a text to kind of all my Wall street sources, many of whom voted for Trump. And every single person responded with like an exasperated, embarrassed emoji. But what Wall street does understand is many don't actually, I don't wanna say they don't care if we fall into recession. Wall street invest. People running companies, people running US Companies are devastated. Right, Right. If you run a small business in the United States, you are panicked right now. But for Wall street, they're just trying to figure out what's the game and how do they get in on it early. Because when they get a signal from the White House, they can just as soon go short the market as they can long. And when we talk about luxury, British automakers who are celebrating today, you know who wasn't? Ford, gm.

[Chris Hayes]

Yeah.

[Letitia James]

US Automakers who are saying, hold the heck on. If we're now going to bring in 100,000 cars, it's going to be cheaper than it is for USMCA compliant cars that are partially produced here and in Mexico and Canada, they're the ones saying we're getting screwed here.

[Chris Hayes]

One of the. Steph, you made this point to me earlier in a text, which I thought was interesting. I mean, he also seems to be getting a little skittish about tariffs. I mean, he talked today also about maybe reducing the 145% tariffs on China. He's, he's kind of made some off and on comments about that. Do we think this is politics? This is the business community talking to him. Where's that coming from?

[Letitia James]

Okay. You're seeing more and more business leaders saying this is going to slide us into a devastating recession. And what we've seen with the president in the last 24 hours as it relates to China makes it look like he's potentially blinking. We saw the market soar today. Stocks, Bitcoin. Right. The riskiest assets. Because it was 24 hours ago, Trump said, I'm not, we're not reducing these tariffs with China. No how. No way. And suddenly today he's saying, oh, maybe I've got some room. And also on China's side, a week ago, China said, unless we see some movement, we're not meeting. So there's a chance in the next two days we do start to see movement. Now you're not seeing any US Companies say Yahoo and start to make big moves, but you are seeing Wall street say, wait a minute, is something happening? Because also read the tea leaves. Trump said today stocks look really cheap by the market. And I'm not saying he's someone to take stock trading advice from, but the last time he said that was April 9, the same day he put the pause on the tariffs. And that's what Wall Street's paying attention to.

[Chris Hayes]

That's an interesting. I mean, the other thing that happened today, a lot happened today. We haven't talked about the Pope. But let me ask you, Chris. I mean, he's pulled two nominees in two days. That's not a normal pace for any president, just to be clear. And that's after he managed to get problem nominees like Pete Hegseth and RFK Jr. Through the Senate. I'm kind of obsessed with the Thom Tillis of this a little bit here because Tillis helped get Hegseth through and then he kind of killed the Ed Martin nomination. But what do you make? Do you think he's losing some mojo with Congress, or you think it's just these particular nominees?

[Stephanie Ruhl]

I think it's probably some combination of both. The one iron law, I think, is that time is not your friend.

[Chris Hayes]

Yeah.

[Stephanie Ruhl]

And this is true for all new presidents. Like, you're strongest on the first day and a little less strong on day two and a little less down on day three. And I think that the nomination trouble is a little bit of a warning sign. But what it really points to is they have a big problem on the legislative front, an enormous problem on the legislative front. And that is one of those things that doesn't get better the longer it goes. I'm not saying I would bet against them passing the big beautiful bill, as he's insisting it be called. I still would, would, would imagine in the end they'll find a way to pass it. But time is not their friend on that. And I think the restlessness you're seeing does not bode great for that for them.

[Chris Hayes]

Chris Hayes, Stephanie Roll, we're going to have to come back. We'll talk about the big beautiful bill that I suspect is going to be the small, less beautiful bill soon. We'll see. Yeah. Thank you both so much. I really appreciate it.

[Stephanie Ruhl]

You anytime.

[Chris Hayes]

Coming up, we're going to talk about how very few people have been more successful at holding Donald Trump accountable than my next guest. New York Attorney General Letitia James is standing by. She and other state AGs have been dealing Trump defeat after defeat after defeat. And they held a big town hall tonight to talk about how they're fighting back. We'll talk about all of it when we come back.

[David Frost]

Stay connected with the MSNBC app bringing you breaking news and analysis anytime, anywhere.

[Chris Hayes]

All the stories that we're covering are, are live and happening as we speak.

[David Frost]

Watch your favorite shows live.

[Chris Hayes]

What's happening right now is a hostile takeover of the US Government.

[David Frost]

Read live blogs and in depth essays and listen to coverage as it unfolds. Go beyond the what to understand the why. Download the app [e-mail] Apple okay, I.

[Chris Hayes]

Mentioned this a little bit earlier, but I think it bears repeating. Courts have issued more than 200 orders stopping the Trump administration's actions since he took office. And a big reason for that is the work of Democratic attorneys general who have worked together to file 23 multi state lawsuits against the Trump administration. Trump's effort to gut birthright citizenship. State attorneys general won an order stopping that. The big OMB freezing fund that a funding freeze that briefly stopped all federal courts federal grants. A court stopped that too after state attorneys general sued when Trump tried to cut funding to help low income K through 12 students. A court stopped that because of a lawsuit filed by yes, guess who. I think you know, at this point, state attorneys general and these state AGs have also been spending time actually listening to people who are freaked out by Trump's agenda. I mean, tonight, New York Attorney General Letitia James hosted four other state Attorneys general for a town hall event at SUNY Westchester Community College. Watch this.

[Jane Fonda]

As a coalition of attorneys general, we've been busy. We filed lawsuits and amicus briefs to stand up for Social Security, child care providers, veterans, members of the LGBTQ community, Meals on Wheels, Head Start, immigrants, health care services, 911 first responders, teachers, students, university scientists, and reproductive rights.

[Chris Hayes]

And joining me now is the quite fearless New York Attorney General, Letitia James. It is great to see you. We played that clip of the town hall where you talked about all of the work you're doing. There's so much that you're doing and so much you're coordinating. And one of the things that you're trying to top, to address and to stop is Trump's effort to get rid of birthright citizenship. You've been leading this effort that's going to the Supreme Court next week because the Trump administration is trying to overturn the injunction. Getting rid of, I mean, obviously getting rid of birthright citizenship is pretty clearly not constitutional. I'm not a lawyer, but I think I can say that. But there's still a 6, 3 court. I mean, as you're looking to next week, how confident are you that they are going to protect birthright citizenship, something you've been fighting to protect?

[Jane Fonda]

So first, Jen Psaki, let me just congratulate you on day three.

[Chris Hayes]

Thank you.

[Jane Fonda]

Really, it's an honor and a privilege to be here.

[Chris Hayes]

Thank you.

[Jane Fonda]

This evening, we held a community impact hearing this evening to talk about all of the cases that we have been involved in and we have been winning. And I want all of you and your viewers to know that we've been preparing for this moment. We've analyzed Project 2025. We've analyzed jurisdiction and venue. We've analyzed his causes and claims, and we've distributed a number of cases to all of the Democratic attorneys general. So we were ready on day one and within 24 hours after his unlawful executive order decided to respond to birthright citizenship. And the United States Supreme Court, for the most part, is primarily reviewing a narrow issue, and that is whether or not the courts, lower courts, have the authority to issue nationwide injunctions. And that really is the issue. We believe birthright citizenship, as you know, is grounded in the 14th Amendment. And in fact, two attorneys general, the attorney general from Connecticut and from Illinois, or birth, are both birthright citizenship babies. And it's really personal to them. And so it's really critically important that we stand up for the rule of law, we stand up for democracy, and we stand up for all of those who are being harmed by these illegal, unlawful executive orders that basically exceed the authority of President Trump.

[Chris Hayes]

I mean, one of the reasons I was so excited to talk to you tonight is I think the power of what Democratic attorneys general are doing like you, is such an interesting force against the illegality of what the Trump administration is doing. And there are so many examples of this. I wanted to ask you, as I was looking at all the things you were doing, there was this report in Business Insider last week that your office is looking at potential insider trading by the president's inner circle centered on last month's market roiling tariff policies. Now, this obviously is a topic that's gotten a lot of attention in the city of Washington, D.C. when asked about it, your spokesperson said you were looking at it. So I guess my question is, what's the latest? Are you looking at it? What might that look like?

[Jane Fonda]

So obviously, you know, when it comes to our investigations, I really can't speak to the issue. I can just say that we are looking at the issue. As you know, the emoluments clause was weakened by the United States Supreme Court. But you also know, I'm sure you know, that we have jurisdiction under the Martin act and we police Wall Street. And so it's really critically important that we look at individuals who engage in insider training, insider trading, and individuals who seek to enrich themselves and or their families. So we are continu continuing to look at it. And when we have information to report, we will report it to the media and to individuals who are very much interested.

[Chris Hayes]

We will be watching that. And you and your office are quite. Go ahead.

[Jane Fonda]

Well, sec. Unfortunately. Sec. As you know, they're no longer partners in the past under the previous administration under President Biden, we work very closely with a number of federal agency and unfortunately, we can no longer report rely upon the federal government.

[Chris Hayes]

That is important for people to understand, too. I have to ask you, I mean, there were reports today that the Justice Department has launched a criminal investigation into real estate transactions that you're involved with. I'm not validating that in any way, but I wanted to just ask you if you've received a formal notice of that at this point.

[Jane Fonda]

No, not at all. These allegations, Jen, are baseless. They have been discredited, refuted. There was a letter that was prepared by my attorney that was sent to Pam Bondi, the United States Attorney General. And it's unfortunate that President Trump publicly attacked me a few days ago and as a result of that, he telegraphed to the Department of Justice and to FBI that I should be targeted. You see, this is nothing more than an extension of his revenge, his retribution. And he finally got up to the J's.

[Chris Hayes]

And.

[Jane Fonda]

And so I stand prepared to respond to these basic attacks with facts. And we look forward, obviously, to further discussions with the Department of Justice or any other individual who leaked this material. It's really critically important that this is in response to a $454 million judgment that my office secured against Donald Trump, et al, a case which is currently on appeal. And as a result of that, and as a result of all of the cases that we have brought, and we again, standing up for the rule of law, standing up for our fragile democracy, standing up for liberties and freedoms that we all enjoy, standing up at a time when our country, unfortunately, is under attack. I am the. Unfortunately, I have been someone who has been targeted. But I am not fearful. I am fearless. And I will continue to walk into the office of the New York State Attorney General and again protect the. The residents and protect them from any harms coming from the federal government. That is my mission. And I took an oath of office. I took an oath of office to uphold the Constitution. And I took an oath of office to the residents of the great state of New York. And I will do everything in my power to protect them from any harm coming from this federal government. It's also important to know that just two days ago, we filed an action against hhs, an agency that its mission is committed to protecting and defending public health. But they are doing nothing but destroying public health. From Head start to the 911 health fund, to lead poisoning for children, to Meals on Wheels to veterans, all of these programs and more are being eliminated or cut by this government, by this federal government. And this is not how government operates. And I will not sit idly by and allow anyone to hurt the residents of my great state. As I join with other attorneys general, Democratic attorneys general, as we join hands across this country to protect our democracy. This is not an oligarchy. And we refuse. We refuse to allow Donald Trump to trample on the rights of individuals. We will be relentless. We will be unflinching, and we will be fearless.

[Chris Hayes]

There's no question anyone watching right now can feel your force and your fearlessness. And I think so many people are grateful for all the work you're doing too hold this administration to account through the law. New York Attorney General Letitia James, thank you so much for taking the time. I really appreciate it. I hope you'll come back. We'll talk more about all of these cases that you've been working so hard on and coordinating with the other attorneys general out there in the country. Coming up, I want to talk about something else, which is Ivanka Trump because she unveiled her latest pet project. And on behalf of Michelle Obama. Obama, I'd like a quick word. I'm going to explain what I'm talking about after a very quick break. Remember Michelle Obama's Let's Move campaign? I remember it. Which many of you do, too, I'm sure. Which champions healthier eating habits and exercise to help combat childhood obesity. I mean, to some, it represented the end of democracy as we know it.

[Jane Fonda]

Tonight, your America is turning into a nanny state thanks to the Obama administration's efforts to rein in the junk food industry.

[Chris Hayes]

I don't need Michelle Obama telling me as a mother what I'm going to feed my kids. I don't need the government to fix obesity. Michelle Obama is part of the food police.

[Jane Fonda]

I don't want the government telling me that I can't put salt on my food. Isn't that our job? Do we have any role or responsibility in life anymore?

[Chris Hayes]

They seem mad. Well, that was then, but now the Trump administration is talking about making America healthy again. Maha, as they say. And those same voices, literally some of the same voices, are suddenly very concerned about American nutrition. And I'm sure that they will be thrilled that Ivanka Trump announced today that she is going into the business of expanding access to fresh produce. Now, in a discussion today touting her business, she said, quote, food can be used medicinally and food can be used to heal our bodies. Food can be part of the solution. Yeah. I mean, a healthy diet is important. And it's good that folks seem to finally be on the same page that Americans should be eating healthier. But those same voices should probably make sure that Donald Trump is in the loop of sorts. And I'm not just talking about his McDonald's habit. I'm talking about the fact that his administration has targeted $1 billion in federal spending for schools and food banks to buy food from local farms and ranchers, money that would actually go to making fresh produce and healthier eating more accessible for more people. I mean, Trump and MAGA world may scream make America healthy again from the rooftops as many times as they want, but what they do is what actually matters. Coming up, we're going to talk about the big protests that are continuing to break out all across the country. And with billionaires cashing in and working people getting hit hard, it really shouldn't come As a surprise, Congressman Greg Kazar and State Senator Mallory McMarrow are two of the Democratic Party's brightest rising stars. They are both very skilled at channeling that energy on the ground. And they join me here at the table next. So these were the scenes out of New York City today. Several protesters were arrested after blocking the entrance to a fancy fundraising gala for a right wing think tank called the Manhattan Institute. And as you can see here, their signs made it quite clear why they were protesting. Here's one. Migrants aren't robbing you. Billionaires are. It's pretty clear. Another was much larger and more explicit. You can see it right there on the screen. These billionaires are killing us. And this was Washington, D.C. today, a group of moms protesting with their kids right in front of the Capitol, holding signs with a very simple message, families over billionaires. And that message, that Trump's economy is deepening inequality, has been a common theme at the protests in town halls all across the country, where a growing number of Americans have shown up with signs and bullhorns. And elected Democrats have been working to harness that energy and make clear that they are the ones standing up for them. Joining me now are two people who have been doing that quite effectively. Democratic Congressman Greg Kazar of Texas and Michigan State Senator Mallory McMaro. First of all, I'm going to take credit for you two meeting because I heard you at dinner before this, and for some reason in my mind, I thought every effective Democratic communicator elected official knew each other. But now I'm happy you know each other now.

[Greg Kazar]

We've had lasagna.

[Chris Hayes]

No, we do now. You've had lasagna. So let me start with you. I mean, you've both been campaigning and traveling around the country. You've said recently, a corpse is not an inspiring political leader. I think that's a T shirt. Somebody should make it out there. But since you've been out there talking to people in red districts, when you meet with people, what do they want? They want fighters. But what else do they bring up to you? That they want to see more from elected officials in Washington. Washington.

[Greg Kazar]

They want to know that the Democratic Party isn't just taking their votes for granted, isn't just running on not being Trump. And honestly, it really scares me thinking about the fact that as Democrats, too often we're like, well, maybe Trump will just implode. And that's our plan for the next two years, Play dead. And then we might win the midterms, which we absolutely need to win. But instead of just a two year plan. I'm worried about 12 years of Trump and then a president. JD Vance if we don't actually go and tell folks we're gonna make a huge real difference in your life, that Democrats aren't just not Trump, that we're actually the folks that are gonna fight the billionaires, make sure you get paid what you're worth, that you can retire a little bit early, that we're gonna get you the health care we need. And I think that when folks feel the real fear that they're feeling right now, you know, Republicans just announced might be able to kick 8 million people off their health care for these billionaire tax cuts. We've got to show that we're not just outraged by that, but that we're going to expand health care for you. Not just that we're not the bad guys, but that we're going to make a real tangible difference in your life. Like FDR did when he created Social Security and the New Deal and defeated fascism around the world. People rewarded Democrats for generations after that. Or lbj, who created Medicare, Medicaid, and Head Start all in one term. The question is, can Democrats do that again? And I think that's the way that we don't just beat Trump, but beat the cynicism that creates the next Trump.

[Chris Hayes]

I mean, you're running for Senate, you're talking to people in Michigan all the time. You've been elected in Michigan, so you're not a creature of Washington in any way, shape or form, so you're actually talking to people all the time. And one of the things that I've seen as an interesting shift, I mean, the policies of the Democratic Party are very much ones that stand up for and defend working people. But that's not what people are hearing. When you talk to people in Michigan, are they looking for a better understanding of what these policies are? Or they're saying they're not bold enough even when they understand them?

[Mallory McMorrow]

First of all, Michiganders want people who actually listen. I was at my daughter's swim class over the weekend, sitting next to another mom, watching our four year olds learn how to swim. And she was complaining, a prodigy.

[Chris Hayes]

If she's learning how to swim.

[Mallory McMorrow]

She is. We're the Great Lakes State, so we got to make sure that she's safe, she doesn't drown when we go into the lake. So really important at that age. But you listen to Trump talk about things like, well, they can have three dolls and not 30 dolls, and it paints childcare and raising a child as if It's a luxury. And then there's this idea of we're just gonna throw out a $5,000 check to encourage you to have more babies. With this mom, we were talking about the fact that our kids are growing like weeds. My daughter needs new rain boots. She just grew out of her old rain boots. And she's gonna need rain boots again in six months. Cause if she doesn't have shoes on her feet, she's not going to be allowed to go outside to play at her preschool. And it is just things compounding one over another. And there is this real sense on the ground in Michigan that Trump and Republicans aren't hearing people at all. And it's not a surprise. They're not showing up at town halls. They're not actually engaging with people. So they're running on all of these ideas with the supposed mandate that they think they had to give billionaires another tax break so they can slash Medicare and Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security and spike the price of strollers and shoes and clothes. And they wonder why parents are concerned right now. So step one is showing up every single day, really listening to people, and then coming back with policies that say, we've heard you. Here are our solutions to solve your problems. As a stark contrast to what Donald Trump and Elon Musk are doing.

[Chris Hayes]

One of the things you both have in common is you are not afraid to speak for what you believe in. But I think you're also about expanding the tent of the party kind of purity tests. I mean, this is something you've talked about. You've said similar things, too. What does that look like? I mean, what are the purity tests, as you look at them, that you think need to be eliminated in order to get more people to be a part of the movement?

[Greg Kazar]

When I think about building a big tent, I actually think about before I was in Congress, and not a story from the C Suite or a courtroom, but on construction sites. I was actually a labor organizer in the construction field well before running for elected office. And our job was to get hundreds of guys who have disagreements on a variety of issues to all work together towards a common cause. And we would encounter wealthy real estate developers that would bark about efficiency while paying themselves more and more guys who thought none of the rules applied to them and thought they were big shots and would say things like, you're fired. So we've dealt with the Donald Trump playbook before, but on those construction sites, we could say, look, we might disagree on this issue or that one, but we can all work together to win a raise. And that's what we were able to build in the labor movement. That's what we're able to build on construction sites, on shop floors all across the country. And that's what I think we need to be able to do as a Democratic Party is to say, look, there are social issues that impact us all and we should stand firmly for the rights of everyday, vulnerable people. But the way we win back the trust of the overwhelming number of people is what brings us all together, which is that pocketbook issue.

[Chris Hayes]

I'm betting you agree with this a bit. And but let me ask you this question too, about purity tests, because I think that's not probably how you're running for Senate in Michigan. I know it's not. What is that? When you hear. Because you know, it's interesting, you're the head of the Progressive Caucus here and something you've said. What do you make of that? We don't have that much time left, but I'd love to hear from you on.

[Mallory McMorrow]

So something that I think about is just eliminating labels altogether and reaching out to everybody. At the end of the day, we are not Democrats and Republicans and independents or progressives or moderate. We're people and people who generally want the same things. We all want to live in a safe neighborhood. We all want to have great schools for our kids. We all want to know that we have clean water and clean air and that we have careers that are going to give us enough to put food on the table, but also to go on vacation and stripping down the labels and just meeting your neighbors and saying, hi, I'm Mallory. I'm a mom, I'm a Michigander. I give a damn about what our state looks like. What do you care about? That's how we bring more people into our party and how we win elections.

[Chris Hayes]

Everybody's gonna wanna come to the McMarrow Kazar Dinner Club that I'm just gonna advertise from here. Thank you both so much. I really appreciate. Love always talking to you. We'll be right back. We're just gonna take a quick break. That does it for me tonight. We're gonna be back here tomorrow night at 9pm Eastern. I'm gonna be joined by Pod Save America co host Jon Favreau and Tommy Vitor. That does it for me today. You can catch the show Tuesday through Friday at 9pm Eastern on MSNBC. And don't forget to follow the show on Blue Sky, Instagram and TikTok for now. Goodbye from Washington and we'll see you next week, sir.

[David Frost]

David Frost gave us an intimate look at some of the most compelling personalities of our time.

[Jane Fonda]

What makes people tick fascinates me. You can't fake interest. You can't fake curiosity.

[David Frost]

MSNBC Films presents a six part documentary series David Frost versus. On the next episode, Jane Fonda.

[Jane Fonda]

The war is being escalated in the.

[Chris Hayes]

Most tragic, cruel way.

[David Frost]

Sunday at 9:00pm Eastern on MSNBC.