'Bad, fast-talking infomercial': Psaki fact-checks Trump's address

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Briefing with Jen Psaki

Episode: 'Bad, fast-talking infomercial': Psaki fact-checks Trump's address
Date: December 18, 2025
Host: Jen Psaki (MS NOW)
Guests: Senator Mark Kelly (D-AZ), Katherine Rampel (Economics Editor, The Bulwark), Vaughn Hilliard (Senior White House Correspondent), Chris Whipple (Vanity Fair journalist)

---

Episode Overview

This episode dives into President Trump’s most recent televised address—a speech Jen Psaki describes as a “bad, fast-talking infomercial”—and provides real-time fact-checks, analysis of major economic and immigration claims, and reactions to ongoing international and domestic controversies. The show features sharp commentary on the tone, content, and background machinations of the current White House, with insight from journalists, policy experts, and Senator Mark Kelly.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Immediate Fact-Checking of Trump’s Speech

• Factual Accuracy:
  • Trump announced $1,776 checks for U.S. troops. Psaki notes only Congress has the power of the purse:

    "If that happens, that is Congress sending those checks, even if Trump puts his name on them." (00:54)

  • $1,776 figure coincidentally matches average cost per household from Trump tariffs, per Yale Budget Lab.
• Inflation Claims:
  • Trump stated he inherited the “worst inflation in 48 years.” In reality, inflation was at 3% both when he took office and at present.
• Gas Prices Claim:
  • Trump claimed he lowered gas to $1.99/gallon; actual averages were $3.11 at his inauguration and $2.91 at present (per AAA).
• Food Prices:
  • Trump claimed grocery prices are down, but his own Agriculture Department shows food is outpacing inflation.

2. Economics and Policy Analysis

With Katherine Rampel & Vaughn Hilliard

• Rampel’s Take:
  • The address was a “manic Gish gallop”—a torrent of lies quickly delivered. (03:32)
  • “He said that he inherited the worst inflation in 48 years. Absolutely not true.” (03:39)
  • “He said things like Turkey prices have come down by a third...neglecting to mention that we have had seven consecutive months of manufacturing job losses.” (04:10)
  • Trump touts “largest tax cuts in American history”—demonstrably false.
  • Trump’s tariffs = largest tax increase as % of GDP in 30+ years (Tax Foundation).
  • “He talked about appointing someone to the Federal Reserve who's going to bring down interest rates...the Chair cannot unilaterally do that...especially if we're not building more homes in this country, which we probably won't be because he's deporting the entire construction labor force.” (04:37)
  • Anti-immigrant rhetoric cited as an economic scapegoat, but study shows restricting immigration would reduce workers by 6.8M and slow economic growth by a third by 2028. (05:38)
• Vaughn Hilliard’s Context:
  • The speech is partially a reaction to crises beyond Trump’s control, and was defensive in tone.
  • White House insiders like Stephen Miller appear as guiding forces, particularly in the anti-immigrant content.
  • Susie Wiles’s influence is evident in letting Trump “be himself”—resulting in a campaign speech airing during prime time.

3. Tariffs: Favorite Word, Problematic Reality

With Katherine Rampel

• Tariffs are near and dear to Trump (“Tariff probably is his favorite word...but pretty much everything else...is false.” (11:50))
• The tariff burden falls largely on American consumers, raising prices and harming job growth.
• There’s uncertainty about tariff legality—if SCOTUS strikes them down, it will create a budget hole Trump has “triple counted.”
• “The consequence of his tariffs so far is higher prices, fewer jobs...uncertainty and a slowdown in the economy.” (12:56)

4. Immigration, the Border, and the Economy

With Senator Mark Kelly

• Trump’s tendency to intertwine dubious economic stats with anti-immigrant rhetoric is described as a “safe place” when he's on the defensive.
• Kelly: “He likes to go to immigrants, and he's been throwing out even legal immigrants...because it's a way to blame things on some other group.” (19:10)
• Construction worker deportations and Canadian lumber tariffs are making homes even more unaffordable for young Americans.

5. Venezuela and Questions of War

With Senator Mark Kelly

• Kelly expresses deep concerns over the legality and justification of recent strikes in Venezuela, and the Oval Office’s shifting narrative (“It started out as fentanyl, then cocaine, then Maduro, now oil…” (23:22)).
• Calls for open hearings and accountability, questioning Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth’s qualifications and transparency.
• “This is serious, because they are trying to intimidate me as a US senator...It sends a chilling effect. But...I'm not backing down from this guy Donald Trump or Pete Hegseth.” (25:22)

6. Susie Wiles, White House Power Plays, and the Epstein Scandal

With Chris Whipple

• Trump’s brash style and the rationale behind the speech are attributed to Susie Wiles, his influential chief of staff, described as having “an alcoholic’s personality—he operates with the view that there’s nothing he can’t do.” (28:12)
• Wiles is trying to re-focus Trump from self-inflicted foreign policy crises to economic messaging.
• Stephen Miller remains the architect of harsh immigration policies and a key influence, as does Secretary of State/National Security Adviser Marco Rubio.
• The looming Epstein file release is a growing concern for the administration.
• Whipple: “No matter how much Trump would try to wish it away...Susie wants him out there campaigning, and that's sort of her modus operandi.” (32:06)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Jen Psaki (Host):
  • “It felt almost like...a bad, fast talking infomercial with a lot of anti-immigrant language just intertwined in there.” (00:54)
• Katherine Rampel:
  • “Oh man, that was like a manic Gish gallop. If anybody ever did high school debate, there were a lot of lies per second there.” (03:32)
  • On tariffs: “The consequence of his tariffs so far is higher prices, fewer jobs, and a slowdown in the economy.” (12:56)
• Vaughn Hilliard:
  • “That speech tonight, 10 months in, was Donald Trump being himself. And he delivered the speech he wanted to tell everybody: America’s the hottest country in the world, right?” (09:40)
  • “He interrupted the season finale of Survivor...That is not what addresses like this...are usually for.” (10:23)
• Senator Mark Kelly:
  • “I'm like, he's just making stuff up, and he just says a bunch of stuff, and he says, this stuff is gonna happen. There's no policy there.” (17:50)
  • “I wish somebody would tell him how math works...prices are gonna go down 5 or 600%...that is not a thing.” (18:04)
  • “He likes to go to immigrants...because it's a way to blame things on some other group.” (19:10)
  • On Venezuela: “There’s no way to make any sense about this...the objective...has changed multiple times. And who knows what it's going to be tomorrow.” (23:22)
  • “I'm not backing down from this guy Donald Trump or Pete Hegseth. I'm not going anywhere.” (25:22)
• Chris Whipple:
  • “You wonder...who's actually microdosing ketamine, you wonder? I mean, that was really a...He really seems to be overdoing it, doesn't he?” (30:02)
  • “For all of Trump's bravado...he knows deep down that he's got a serious problem come 2026.” (31:24)

---

Important Timestamps

• 00:54: Jen Psaki begins immediate fact-check of Trump’s speech.
• 03:32: Katherine Rampel dissects Trump’s economic claims.
• 06:24: Vaughn Hilliard discusses speech’s anti-immigrant undercurrents and White House chaos.
• 11:50: Deep dive into tariffs and economic impacts.
• 17:50: Senator Mark Kelly responds to the speech and White House intimidation tactics.
• 23:22: Senator Kelly unpacks the shifting rationale for military actions in Venezuela.
• 28:02: Chris Whipple discusses Susie Wiles’ influence and the administration’s internal concerns.
• 33:06: Whipple outlines the roles of Stephen Miller, Wiles, Rubio, and the Epstein scandal worries.

---

Thematic Wrap-Up

The episode portrays a White House in crisis mode, lurching from scandal to scandal, with a President relying on bluster and misinformation in high-profile addresses. Trump’s speech, far from reassuring the nation or providing substantive policy, is assessed as a defensive, fact-lite campaign rally shoehorned into prime time as a desperate attempt to sway public sentiment on his administration’s faltering record. Veteran journalists and Senator Kelly paint a picture of a chaotic presidency—one where messaging is driven by political survival, internal power struggles, and an ever-evolving list of enemies and scapegoats.

---

This summary captures the episode’s key analyses, criticisms, and underlying sense of urgency surrounding both U.S. domestic policy and international entanglements, providing a clear guide for those who missed the broadcast.

Transcript

[Senator Mark Kelly]

The holidays mean more travel, more shopping, more time online and more personal info in more places that could expose you more to identity theft. But LifeLock monitors millions of data points per second. If your identity is stolen, our US based restoration specialists will fix it, guaranteed your money back. Don't face drained accounts, fraudulent loans or financial losses alone. Get more holiday fun and less Holiday worry with LifeLock. Save up to 40% your first year. Visit LifeLock.com SpecialOffer Terms Apply Bubba Wallace here with Tyler Reddick. You know what's more nerve wracking than waiting for qualifying results? Waiting for the green flag to drop. Instead of pacing, you rev up with Chumba Casino's weekly new releases. It's like a fresh set of tires for your brain. Play for [e-mail] let's Chumba. No purchase necessary. VGW Group Voidwear prohibited by law CTC's 21 plus sponsored by Chumba Casino.

[News Anchor/Host]

Well, the President has just finished his address to the nation and was that a speech? I mean it felt almost like it did feel it was a bad, fast talking infomercial with a lot of anti immigrant language just intertwined in there. It was extremely loose on facts and he basically tried to shout his alleged accomplishments at the American people as if that was going to convince them that they were all true. I'm going to get some reaction and experts help analyzing what he said in just a moment. But first, I just want to quickly fact check just a few. I mean, there were so many, so many in there. We were working as quickly as we could. But just a few of the President's most blatant falsehoods. Tonight, Trump announced checks for $1,776 for U.S. troops. First of all, Congress controls the power of the person in the country, not the president. So if that happens, that is Congress sending those checks, even if Trump puts his name on them. But that number, $1,776, is also kind of interesting because an analysis from the Yale Budget Lab estimates that as of November20, Trump tariffs have cost Americans an average of $1700 per household this year. Trump also claimed that when he took office, inflation was the worst in 48 years. That's not true. The truth is that inflation had been declining from its peak of 7% during the pandemic. But since Trump took office, it has basically flatlined at 3%. It was 3% in January and it's 3% today. In his campaign, Trump also claimed he would end inflation on day one. Now, just last week, the Chair of the Federal Reserve Jerome Powell said that, quote, inflation remains somewhat elevated. There you go. Trump said he's working to bring grocery prices down. Now, just this week, this is where it gets awkward for him. Trump's own Agriculture department released a report showing that food prices are rising faster than inflation. And everybody, by the way, is living that at grocery stores. Trump also claimed that he's brought gas prices down to $1.99 a gallon. The national average for a gallon of gasoline was $3.11 when Trump took office. The national average today per AAA is $2.91. That is just a little taste in flavor. And I'm sure you all have your own lists at home. Again, just a short list, but I'm sure I missed plenty of things. So joining me now are two people who have been paying very close attention. Emma Snow, senior White House correspondent Vaughn Hilliard, along with co host of the weekend, Katherine Rampel, who is also the economics editor at the Bulwark. Okay, Catherine, let me just start with you because there were so many economic falsehoods in there. It was like micro machine. If people know that refere man meets Pinocchio. Just talking about the economy and shouting at the American public. What did you note in there that stuck out to you as the most glaring things?

[Katherine Rampel]

Oh man, that was like a manic Gish gallop. If anybody ever did high school debate, there were a lot of lies per second there. I took some notes. So among the first things out of his mouth was a lie. He said that he inherited the worst inflation in 48 years. Absolutely not true. Inflation when he took office was about 3%. Today it is about 3%. So definitely not the highest in 48 years. And also no different today than it was at the beginning. It had been coming down and then it bounced back up after Liberation Day. He talked about bringing prices down. That obviously has not happened. He had a bunch of statistics in there. I have no idea what the providence of them was. He said things like Turkey prices have come down by a third. He said that they're building factories and plants at records he hasn't seen. Neglecting to mention that we have had seven consecutive months of manufacturing job losses. It is true that there is big investment in AI data centers, not so much in jobs. In fact, we are losing jobs. He talked about having the largest tax cuts in American history. Demonstrably false. Not to mention the fact that his tariffs are technically the largest tax increase as a percent of GDP in over 30 years. And don't take my word for it. That's the conservative tax foundation that came up with that made up a whole bunch of other things about costs coming down. I don't know where these numbers came from. He talked about how he's going to appoint someone to the Federal Reserve who's going to bring down interest rates and bring down mortgage costs. I have no doubt that that is what he hopes will happen. However, you know, the chair of the Federal Reserve cannot, in fact unilaterally bring down interest rates and certainly cannot bring down mortgage costs, particularly if we're not building more homes in this country, which we probably won't be because he's deporting the entire construction labor force. There was a whole bunch of other stuff in there. You know, you mention a lot of the anti immigrant rhetoric about. He talked about how immigrants are taking our jobs, driving up rents. I don't know where he's getting some of these numbers from. Again, like, I'd have to do like a big chat GPT or Google search or something to figure out where these numbers are coming from. He said some other things about like the cost of law enforcement has gone up so high that it's not even to be mentioned, which is why he didn't mention a number. But in fact, if you look at the economic cost of his immigration policies, a new report from the national foundation for American Policy found that the Trump administration's policies on illegal and legal immigration would reduce the projected number of workers in the US by 6.8 million people by 2028 and lower the annual rate of economic growth by almost a third.

[News Anchor/Host]

There's so much more to dig into here. We just wanted to give you all a sense. I mean, Vaughn, the backdrop here, I mean, Stephen Miller seems like he has little paws all over that speech because there were just moments where it almost felt like a knee jerk, anti immigrant, xenophobic kind of phrase. False information, inaccurate details. He's sharing about the impact of immigrants on the country. This is all the backdrop of all of this. And I started the show talking about this is also, as you well know, a lot of things happening in this White House. I mean, the Susie Wiles mind blowing piece came out just yesterday. The Epstein files are due in two days. House Republicans kind of rejected the Trump agenda or the Trump desires, I should say, on Capitol Hill today. They're trying to wage what seems to be an illegal war in Venezuela. What led to that micro machine, fast talking infomercial that we just heard?

[Vaughn Hilliard]

To a certain extent, things are out of President Trump's control when you're on the campaign trail, right. Or if you're in the courtroom with your lawyers, right. You can walk out, you can go yell into a microphone, and you can go and try to convince the masses that you are being politically targeted for prosecution. Right? You can go and bat Joe Biden over the head as Sleepy Joe all you want. And that's what he's done the last couple years. But now he's the President of the United States and he's got a four year term. It was his own Commerce Secretary, Howard Lutnick, that back in July was very specific. He said Biden's first quarter is behind us and growth is already accelerating. Congratulations, America. We're just getting started. That was this summer. The Trump administration, now with President Trump's own speech tonight, are suddenly bringing Joe Biden and blaming him again for the economic situation that Americans find themselves in. And when I say it's out of his control. Right. I was talking a week ago at an event that he did in Pennsylvania where I was talking to his own supporters about what grade they would give the economy. There were Ds, C minuses, B minuses. That's the state of America in the president used with a lack of hubris here today, an attempt to try to convince Americans that their lives and the situation of this country is better than so many people are actually expressing.

[News Anchor/Host]

There's always kind of a swirl. I mean, some people are working on speeches like these, but not everybody in the building. Right. So what was going on with everybody else in the building today? Were they dealing with all the other stuff or what were they most freaking out about?

[Vaughn Hilliard]

You know what struck me as you mentioned, Stephen Miller, but the speech actually kind of sounded like plaques that were just installed at the White House today.

[News Anchor/Host]

Yeah, I saw that. Tell us more about that.

[Vaughn Hilliard]

There were plaques. The president made this presidential walk of fame outside of the West Wing where there's a portrait of every prior president. And those have been up now for a couple weeks. But today they added plaques. And I walked by and was reading them and calling Joe Biden Sleepy Joe, saying Barack Obama was one of the most divisive political figures in history. Those are the official plaques. And reading through it, it sounds like a Trump truth social post. His speech tonight sounded like a Trump truth social post. And I think this is where Susie Wiles profile reveals that. Well, she facilitates sort of this structure of a White House that effectively allows Donald Trump to be himself. That speech tonight, 10 months in, was Donald Trump being himself. And he delivered the speech. So he wanted to tell Everybody, America's the hottest country in the world, right? He literally said the line, we have achieved anything. More, more than anyone could have ever imagined. And when he talks about the state of this country, we need to be clear. European allies, Canada, Mexico are questioning just how hot America is right now and whether we are committed to the global order that has held up the global construct ever since World War II. And so while President Trump there is trying to convince Americans that all is fine and dandy, America's closest allies are questioning that. Donald Trump just had prime time. He interrupted the season finale of Survivor. Okay, we're talking about more than 5 million people that are watching that on CBS tonight. The president just interrupted that and was able to deliver essentially a campaign speech. That is not what addresses like this. You know this from the White House. It is usually for a major domestic or international incident or announcement. That was not this.

[News Anchor/Host]

It is usually for a major international event. And White Houses have to make pitches. I remember quite well when the networks rejected Barack Obama's request and our request from the request from the White House to air a speech on immigration that actually had policy in it. But usually you have to meet a certain bar in order to get that time. And I assume there's going to be a lot of meetings in these networks tomorrow morning about whether or not to do that again. If they ask again, we will see. Katherine, let me ask you just about tariffs, because he keeps repeating, I mean, I know he is not a policy guy, we all know that, but he keeps repeating that tariffs are his favorite word. This is something he said in his bizarre economic speech he gave a few weeks ago where he talked about dolls and pencils. He said it again ton it seemed like he was reading very quickly from the teleprompter. So maybe that was something he ad libbed, who knows? Or they wrote in for him because they knew he would say it. Just give us kind of a level set here. I mentioned some of the statistics we've seen about the impacts on individual households, about his tariff policies at this point and what they have done to American households.

[Katherine Rampel]

So I would say first of all, fact check, true. Tariff probably is his favorite word. So at least that part is correct.

[News Anchor/Host]

Seems to be.

[Katherine Rampel]

But pretty much everything else that he has said about tariffs is false. It is Americans who are by and large paying these tariffs. And we can see it in the data we are already seeing again, as I mentioned before, inflation ticking up. It hasn't come up quite as much, I think, as a lot of people had feared in part Because a lot of companies are betting that the tariffs are going to get struck down by the Supreme Court pretty soon. And so they've been trying to avoid passing on costs as well to the extent possible to their consumers, but they're passing on some of those costs. And look, let's say that the Supreme Court does strike down those tariffs. Trump has been bragging about all of the revenue that they have raised. If the Supreme Court in fact, says that those tariffs are unconstitutional or illegal, as they are expected to do, that is going to blow a huge hole in the federal budget that Trump does not have a way of filling. And in fact, he has already like triple counted the use of the tariff revenue that he may well have to give back. He said that it's plugging a hole in the budget. Maybe he's going to send out more Trump checks. Who knows how he's going to pay for these bonuses for service members, which, as you rightly pointed out, Congress would have to actually appropriate. But in general, the consequence of his tariffs so far is higher prices, fewer jobs. As I mentioned, manufacturing jobs are down and a lot of uncertainty and a slowdown in the economy.

[News Anchor/Host]

No question about all of that. And tariffs. Yeah, probably his favorite, his favorite word. Sivan, you are very familiar with kind of what's happening in there and how they react to events here. Chris and I were talking a little bit earlier about what happens next with Trump. I mean, Trump, does he post something on Truth Social tonight that eats this up? Is there news tomorrow that they put out? What, what do you think is swirling around there around this speech?

[Vaughn Hilliard]

I mean, last night we were taken aback when he posted late last night about, you know, putting up a blockade around Venezuela. Effectively, one could argue, would be a violation of international law or an act of war. And so I think on any given moment, it's a question. The Epstein files are due on Friday. And so, I mean, when we go to the White House, I know, I think when you were at the White House, I think there was a little bit more order and expectation among the press corps about what the deliverables were going to be on a certain day. But covering this White House, it is difficult, the number of subject matters to report on on any given day to try to catch up with the fact checks and try to deal with some of these realities here for how this White House is responding. It is a small nucleus around him there of folks. And the extent to which this president here was able to deliver the speech he wanted to tonight, clearly.

[News Anchor/Host]

Right.

[Vaughn Hilliard]

There is still Russia's war. And the president promised that he'd finish that in 24 hours. That hasn't happened here. And in so many ways it seemed like tonight was a defensive speech, one in which he tried to justify the reasons, whether it be economy, whether it be some of these wars, like Russia's war, seemed to try to justify the reasons why Americans are feeling or questioning the success of this administration up to this point here.

[News Anchor/Host]

No question, when you yell quickly through a speech, that is giving an indication you're a bit on the defense, which certainly was the tone of what we just saw. Vaughn Hilliard, Katherine Rampel, thank you both so much. I have Senator Mark Kelly standing by. Pete Hegsest, Pentagon, of course, just announced a formal investigation into Senator Kelly, all for saying members of the military shouldn't follow illegal orders. And guess what? We saw another potentially illegal boat strike just tonight. I'll get his reaction to that and to everything we heard from Donald Trump when we come back. This holiday unwrapped the magic of Gold Belly with America's most iconic food gifts shipped free nationwide. Send unforgettable treats like Ina Garten's Coconut cake lottery macarons and even Joe's Stone Crab from Miami. Plus, make family time even more special.

[Katherine Rampel]

With an award winning dinner like Peter.

[News Anchor/Host]

Luger's legendary steaks shipped anywhere by Goldbelly.

[Katherine Rampel]

So if you want this year to.

[News Anchor/Host]

Be one for the record books, check out GoldBully.com and use promo code GIFT for 20% off your first order.

[Senator Mark Kelly]

Looking for a new way to grow your business? With TikTok for business, anything is possible. If you've ever thought about advertising on TikTok, now's the time to do it. You can drive more customers to your website, sell products right in the app, and you can even use TikTok's creative tools to easily make content and find creators to help sell your products for you. Find new customers today? Just open your browser, type in getstarted.TikTok.com TikTok ads and grow your business fast. Bubba Wallace here with Tyler Reddick. You know what's more nerve wracking than waiting for qualifying results? Waiting for the green flag to drop. Instead of pacing, you rev up with Chumba Casino's weekly new releases. It's like a fresh set of tires for your brain. Play for [e-mail] let's Chumba. No purchase necessary. VGW Group voidware prohibited by law. CTC's 21+ sponsored by Jumba Casino.

[News Anchor/Host]

Welcome back. Joining me now after an Unhinged, fact free. Very speedily delivered speech from the President of the United States. Very loudly, too, is somebody who is full of facts and definitely not unhinged. Democratic Senator Mark Kelly of Arizona, thank you for being here. Your notes look like my notes from that speech. It was like trying to write very quickly. So there's a lot to get to, including this likely illegal war toward Venezuela. But let's just start with the speech. What did you make of the speech? What was your reaction to the speech?

[Senator Mark Kelly]

Well, initially, I mean, I'm like, he's just making stuff up, and he just says a bunch of stuff, and he says, this stuff is gonna happen. There's no policy there. And I've kind of wondered, why is he, like, so, like, angry and desperate and defensive?

[News Anchor/Host]

Yeah.

[Senator Mark Kelly]

Somebody must have showed him some, like, abysmal poll numbers and said, you better get out there in front of the American people and explain to them why these poll numbers shouldn't be in the toilet. And then I wish. I wish somebody would tell him how math works. You know, the prices are gonna go down 5 or 600%. Anyone who's been through, like, the sixth grade by then knows that that is not a thing.

[News Anchor/Host]

Yeah, that is for sure true. He's not a mathematician or a policy guy. One of the things I was just discussing with Vaughn and Catherine is that. But to me, Stephen Miller's pause sounded all over that speech. I mean, there was that sort of. He'd give an economic stat that wasn't true, and then he would kind of intertwine anti immigrant rhetoric into it. It seems to be his safe place. You actually are a senator from a border state. What do you make of that? It seems to be where he goes when he's fearful.

[Senator Mark Kelly]

Yeah. It was multiple times about immigrants, immigration, about the border, about. I don't think he got to. One of the big problems at the border is fentanyl.

[News Anchor/Host]

Yeah.

[Senator Mark Kelly]

Which maybe now he doesn't want to talk about this at all because initially that's what these boat strikes were about. It was about fentanyl, and then it turned out not to be fentanyl. Fentanyl comes through the ports of entry. So he likes to go to immigrants, and he's been throwing out even legal immigrants out of our country because it's a way to blame things on some other group. I was with my daughter down in Southern Maryland, where I used to live when I was in the Navy. So I was 30 years old. She was 1. Took her to the house we used to live in, and she's an architect now and her husband's a PhD neuroscience. And I showed her this house and she said to me afterwards, she said, dad, how were you able to afford that house when you were 30 years old in the United States Navy? And there are so many 30 year olds like my daughter who can't afford a place to live anymore. And she I have a grandkid and this president is doing nothing to address it. And somebody in the back said he's, well, he's kicking out the workforce that makes the homes and he's raising tariffs on lumber from Canada. So housing's becoming more unaffordable under this president, along with a lot of other things.

[News Anchor/Host]

A lot happened today, not just this speech. Thank goodness you went. You were finally able to see the full video today in a briefing on Capitol Hill. Of what? Of those strikes that we've all that killed the two survivors back in September. What did you make of the video? What is your takeaway from having seen the full video?

[Senator Mark Kelly]

Well, it's not good. And I would say what's worse than the video is the explanation about why this was justified. And just like the justification for the overall operation, there's huge holes through this you can drive a truck through. So I'm really concerned about how did we get to the point where this happened. Now, I think it's important that the American people get an opportunity to see this video. First of all, members of Congress should, but the American people should, and there should be accountability. There should be open hearings. Pete Hegseth should be in an open hearing being questioned about this. Why under his watch did this happen? I have some thoughts about that. I mean, that's what happens when you put an unqualified person in charge of perhaps the hardest organization in the world to run, the Department of Defense. He had no business being in this job. And he's created an environment where these kind of things could happen without accountability. I mean, he's a guy who's been running around saying we need to be hunting and killing people and the rules of engagement are some kind of hindrance to them being successful. So I've been concerned about this before these strikes started. And now after watching that video today, I have a lot more questions, a lot more.

[News Anchor/Host]

What are your questions that you have now that you didn't have yesterday?

[Senator Mark Kelly]

Well, I'd like to get the lawyers in there that were in the room like all the JAG officers and hear from them. Why did they feel under, under the law of Armed combat and the manual of war, why were These actions that were taken, justified. And were there any dissenting opinions? And were those opinions listened to? It was reported that Pete Hegseth told Admiral Halsey at one point, you will follow my orders and not ask any questions. This was right sometime before, you know, he departed, you know, decades of service. That is not the kind of environment that results in success.

[News Anchor/Host]

There has also been, I mean, beyond the legality of that particular strike and all the need for the lawyers to see it, a range of explanations. I mean, in this kind of eye popping piece that Chris Whipple published yesterday, and I'm about to talk to him, Susie Wiles was quoted basically saying they were gonna do it until Maduro cried uncle. As in regime change. Right. They've also blamed it on drug trafficking, which would be dealt with in a very different way than using military force and military strikes. What do you make of the rotation of explanations? There's absolutely no consistency.

[Senator Mark Kelly]

Well, it started out as fentanyl and there's no fentanyl on those routes. And then it went to cocaine, and those routes don't bring cocaine, not much of it to the United States. And then it became about Maduro and getting rid of Maduro. Now it's about oil, like an oil deal, or as the President said, we want our land back and we have Venezuela surrounded by an armada. I hope he doesn't think Venezuela is an island because Venezuela is not surrounded by the United States Navy at this point and the resources we're putting in there and the fact that he may take American service members, young men and women, to war without an authorization to do this, without a debate in Congress, with no really clear objective in weeks, the objective, as you point out, has changed multiple times. And who knows what it's going to be tomorrow. Hey, Maduro is a bad guy. He's as bad as Juan Hernandez from Honduras, who the President pardoned. So on one hand, you want to replace a guy and you're going to use the full force of the US Military to do this. On the other hand, his clone was in a US Prison and has now been pardoned. I mean, there's no way to make any sense about this. And then the guy who's going to run this operation, by the way, when the President announced last night that we're going to put a military blockade on Venezuela, three hours later, Pete Hegseth is tweeting about me.

[News Anchor/Host]

He's kind of obsessed with you and it may be because you call things out pretty frequently. They also, I mean, you're one of their biggest targets. They've also launched what they're calling a command investigation. Is that how they're calling it? An official command investigation? Do you know anything more about that? Have they contacted you to tell you more about it?

[Senator Mark Kelly]

They still to this day have not been notified in any way by the Department of the Navy or the Department of Defense. Nobody? Zero.

[News Anchor/Host]

So they just like to post about it.

[Senator Mark Kelly]

They just post stuff. But, you know, this is serious because they are trying to intimidate me as a United States senator to get me to shut up. And what kind of effect does that have on everybody else who either serves in the military, retired, were just US Citizens that used to understand that they have a right under the Constitution to say what they think and to speak out against this government. And if they can go after me and get me to shut up, what are they going to do? I mean, they're not going to. They're going to be. People will be scared. It sends a chilling effect. But here's the thing. I'm not backing down from this guy Donald Trump or Pete Hegseth. I'm not going anywhere. I'm going to continue to do my job like I was doing yesterday, trying to ask Pete Hegseth some questions when he just kind of rolls into a prepared speech against me. Now, I was sitting about this far away from him in that brief, and yeah, he just kind of went off on a rant when I was trying to get answers to three specific questions about these boats.

[News Anchor/Host]

Again, you're under his skin. I wonder why.

[Senator Mark Kelly]

I got in his head somehow.

[News Anchor/Host]

I wonder why. Senator Markelli, thank you for being here. Thank you for continu. Speak out. So, hey, Riley herbst here with 23:11. Racing, waiting for the bus, staring at.

[Senator Mark Kelly]

Traffic crawl hard pass.

[News Anchor/Host]

I rev up Chumba Casino instead. Fast spins, blazing winds, all fun. No downloads needed. Why let the clock drag when you.

[Senator Mark Kelly]

Can let the reel spin?

[News Anchor/Host]

Next stop, ChumbaCasino.com Let's Chumba.

[Senator Mark Kelly]

No purchase necessary. VGW Group voidware prohibited by law. CTNC's 21 plus sponsored by Jumbo Casino. Looking for a new way to grow your business? With TikTok for business, anything is possible. If you've ever thought about advertising on TikTok, now's the time to do it. You can drive more customers to your website, sell products right in the app, and you can even use TikTok's creative tools to easily make content and find creators to help sell your products for you. Find new customers today, just open your browser, type in getstarted.TikTok.com tiktokads and grow your business fast.

[News Anchor/Host]

Busy work weeks can leave you feeling drained.

[Katherine Rampel]

Prolon's five day fasting mimicking diet rejuvenates you at the cellular level, lets you enjoy real food and does not require an injection.

[News Anchor/Host]

Developed at USC's Longevity Institute, Prolon supports.

[Katherine Rampel]

Biological age reduction, metabolism, skin health and fat loss when combined with proper exercise and nutrition. Get 15% off plus a forty dollar bonus gift when you [e-mail] PandoraPromo all.

[News Anchor/Host]

Right, as Donald Trump was speaking earlier in the hour, I couldn't help. You may have been thinking about this too, but think of one specific part of yesterday's astonishing eye popping interview with Trump chief of staff Susie Wiles, published by Chris Whipple and Vanity Fair. Wiles said Trump has, quote, an alcoholic's personality and that he operates with the view that there's nothing he can't do. Nothing. Zero, nothing. That was the vibe there. And that speech we heard tonight in Crime at Time is kind of of a part, a prime example of what Susie Wiles was talking about. I mean, Trump thinks that there is nothing he can't do, that he can say anything, that he can yell anything at the public. It's almost like he thought that this one address would magically change the downward trajectory that he and his administration are clearly on through their self inflicted crises. As if one primetime address would convince people that things aren't as bad as they clearly are. But Trump cannot do those things no matter what he or Susie Wiles might think. No speech is going to change the facts that polling consistently shows that a growing majority of people kind of hate what Trump is doing or really hate it for some people. And no speech is going to change the mountain of scandals that Trump and his administration are facing right now. Trump's White House is clearly flailing and absolutely nothing, certainly not a speech where he's speaking very defensively and angrily and loudly is going to change that. Joining me now is the journalist who wrote that jaw dropping Vanity Fair piece and conducted those interviews with White House Chief of staff Susie Wiles. Chris Whipple. Chris, it's great to see you. I just wonder watching that. It's great to see you. I wonder as you watch that speech. I mean, you and I have talked over the years. You've talked to so many people who've worked in White Houses over years. You know how they operate in moments like this, moments of crises, moments during big speeches, just in the context of everything Susie Wiles told you. I wonder what you were thinking as you were watching that speech.

[Chris Whipple]

Well, it was an energetic speech, wasn't it? I mean, I thought of another part of the day.

[Senator Mark Kelly]

One way to describe it was, you.

[Chris Whipple]

Know, who's actually microdosing ketamine, you wonder? I mean, that was really a. He really seems to be overdoing it, doesn't he? Well, I think it's. I think it's an effort to change the subject. And I think that obviously Trump is. I think there's some desperation setting in, and I think a lot of it has to do with affordability, his least favorite word. But as much as he hates that word, he knows that he's got to deal with it. And I spoke to, not only to Susie Wiles, but to all of. Not all of his inner circle, but many of them. James Blair, the deputy chief who is the political whiz in that West Wing, told me that, that they realize that there are a lot of challenges. Epstein is one of them that they have to deal with. But he said, you know what? Even if we get that, even if that's perfect, if we don't make people feel better about the economy, we are blanked, as he put it, in the 2026 midterms. So for all of Trump's bravado about everything being wonderful and America being great again, and he knows deep down that he's got a serious problem come 2026.

[News Anchor/Host]

It may not surprise you to hear, and maybe you've seen this, that according to a pool note that came out, Trump said something like, susie told me I had to give an address to the nation. Would it surprise you if it was her idea? And then she got him to do it. Doesn't sound like it.

[Chris Whipple]

Not at all. Because Susie Wiles is trying to change the subject from foreign affairs to the economy. She said to me, and I reported in the Vanity Fair piece that, look, less talk about Saudi Arabia and more talk about the economy would really do us a lot of good. Everybody loves peace. But he wasn't elected for that. He was elected to make the economy better. She knows just how important that is. And I think that no matter how much Trump would try to wish it away or swat it away, she wants. She's convinced that he is the greatest salesman in the joint. And she wants him out there, as she said, campaigning. And that's sort of her modus operandi.

[News Anchor/Host]

I think Democrats might want him out there campaigning, too. So maybe there's agreement on that. Perhaps one thing, something that jumped out to me, and I read your piece a couple Times yesterday just had so much in it is just how little Stephen Miller was mentioned because it seemed to me like there was a lot of Stephen Miller in that speech. He's obviously a very powerful person in a lot of ways in the White House. You've said kind of some people are more equal than others in that White House. That's true of every White House. How do you see Stephen Miller in that orbit?

[Chris Whipple]

Well, I think Miller is still to some extent. I mean, he's certainly the architect of Trump's draconian immigration policy. Without a doubt, he's very much involved in Venezuela policy as well. So no question about it that Miller is a player. Obviously, so is Marco Rubio wearing two hats as secretary of state and national security adviser, the first since Henry Kissinger. I think Vance is influential. But again, I would say that the most powerful person in the Trump White House, other than the president himself, is Susie Wiles. And she has a kind of magic with him that none of her predecessors had. He trusts her in a way that he trusts no one else. And we've seen that in the way they have circled the wagons and rallied around her since my Vanity Fair piece came out. You know, nobody wants to be on the wrong side of Susie Wiles very.

[News Anchor/Host]

Quickly as we only have a few seconds left. But I know in your piece you said that she said that he was in the Epstein files, but not in a bad way. What's your sense on how worried they are about this?

[Chris Whipple]

She said not doing anything awful and she insists that she underestimated the potency of the Epstein scandal, but, boy, do they get it now. And she talks specifically about two groups of voters overlapping who are angry about the Epstein scandal and angry about the administration's close closeness to Bibi Netanyahu and Israel. That's something like 5% of the vote, according to Susie, and they need to deal with it. And J.D. vance is really worried about that group as well.

[News Anchor/Host]

Interesting point person for all of that, Chris Whipple. Thank you as always. Hope you keep writing. Look forward to the book. Next one we have to sneak in a very quick break, but Lawrence has House Democratic Leader Hakeem Jeffries standing by with his first reaction. And I'm sure he's got some thoughts to Donald Trump's speech tonight. Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back. That does it for me tonight. You can catch the show Tuesday through Friday at 9pm Eastern on Ms. Now. And don't forget to follow the show on Blue sky, Instagram and TikTok. Hey, Riley Herbst here with 23XI Racing.

[Senator Mark Kelly]

Waiting for the bus, staring at traffic Crawl hard pass.

[News Anchor/Host]

I rev up Chumba Casino instead. Fast spins, blazing winds, all fun, no downloads needed. Why let the clock drag when you.

[Senator Mark Kelly]

Can let the reel spin? Next stop, chumbacasino.com let's Chumba no purchase necessary VGW Group Void where prohibited by law CTNC's 21+ sponsored by Chumba Casino.