Calls for accountability for ICE run amok puts Noem in the hot seat

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Briefing with Jen Psaki

Episode: Calls for accountability for ICE run amok puts Noem in the hot seat
Date: January 28, 2026
Host: Jen Psaki (MS NOW)
Featured Guests: Sen. Tina Smith (MN), Jeh Johnson (Fmr. Sec. of Homeland Security), Rep. Seth Moulton (MA), Sen. Alex Padilla (CA)

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Overview of Episode Theme

This episode centers on the intensifying controversy over ICE and Homeland Security's actions in Minnesota following the killing of ICU nurse Alex Preddy and other incidents. Jen Psaki unpacks rapidly evolving events: high-profile protests in subzero temperatures, conflicting federal and state responses, a leadership change within ICE, and mounting bipartisan calls for accountability—including pressure on Trump officials like Secretary Kristi Noem. Through interviews with lawmakers and experts, Psaki explores what real accountability might look like, the failures of federal oversight, and what comes next in Minnesota and beyond.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Grassroots Power and the Minnesota Protests

• Community Leadership: Minnesotans, undeterred by freezing temperatures and threats, orchestrated sustained protests outside courthouses and across the state. Their activism is lauded as one of the “best display[s] of humanity… since Donald Trump was inaugurated” ([Jen Psaki, 00:45]).
• Catalyst for Change: The protests are credited with the forced retirement of ICE official Greg Bovino—a rare instance of grassroots movement making a direct policy impact.
• Ongoing Demands: “They were also demanding that ICE leave their state once and for all… this fight isn’t over yet” ([Jen Psaki, 01:45]).

2. Leadership Swap: From Bovino to Homan—Real Change or More of the Same?

• Skepticism about Homan: Tom Homan, the controversial former ICE director, replaces Bovino. Homan's history includes defending family separation at the border, defiance of court orders, harsh rhetoric against undocumented immigrants, and allegations of bribery ([Jen Psaki, 03:21]).
• No Confidence: Governor Tim Walz and others are unconvinced the change signals real reform: “The end of this is not Greg Bevino leaving. The end of this is a sane policy on how you do immigration reform and stop an attack by the federal government on a state” ([Gov. Tim Walz, 02:44]).

3. Trump Administration Response: Gaslighting and Deflection

• Dismissal of Criticism: Trump and his allies continue hostile rhetoric, labeling protesters as "paid insurrectionists" and blaming victims, including Alex Preddy, for their own deaths ([Jen Psaki/Seth Moulton, 06:16-07:16]).
• Hypocrisy on Guns: Psaki points out the double standard, noting Trump's support for armed right-wing protesters elsewhere while blaming Preddy, a licensed gun owner, for carrying a weapon ([Jen Psaki, 07:16]).

4. Calls for Accountability (and Infighting) in the Trump Administration

• Blame-Shifting: The administration and its officials, particularly Secretary Kristi Noem and advisor Stephen Miller, deflect blame for incendiary statements about victims like Preddy, fueling public distrust ([Jen Psaki, 09:15]).
• Escalating Pressure: At least 23 Republicans and growing numbers of Democrats now demand investigations and, in some cases, resignations: “The pushback is working. What people of Minnesota are doing is working. It’s powerful, it’s impactful” ([Jen Psaki, 12:30]).

5. On-the-Ground Realities: Senator Tina Smith’s Perspective

• Ongoing ICE Abuses: Despite the leadership shake-up, Smith reports that unmarked ICE vehicles continue detaining residents without warrants. Mutual aid efforts help those now afraid to leave their homes ([Tina Smith, 13:38]).
• Minnesotan Tenacity: The “Minnesota attitude” means activists remain both hopeful and resolute: “If you are weak in the face of a bully, they will keep on bullying you. But if you are strong, if you stand up to them, then they, like, try to find a way out” ([Tina Smith, 14:26]).
• Reluctance to Believe Promises: “The proof is in the pudding… You’ve got to show me that you actually mean what you are saying” ([Tina Smith, 17:23]).

6. Assault on Rep. Ilhan Omar – Patterns of Right-Wing Incitement

• Violence Against Politicians: At a town hall, Omar is attacked with a substance by a member of the audience—a reminder of the dangers elected officials, especially those targeted by Trump, now face ([Tina Smith, 15:51]).
• Courage Amid Threats: Omar refuses to end the event, demonstrating “what service and patriotism look like” ([Tina Smith, 16:06]).

7. Legislative Action in Washington

• Democratic Leverage: Senate Democrats threaten to block Department of Homeland Security (DHS) and ICE funding bills unless reforms like requiring body cameras, badges, and banning warrantless detentions are adopted ([Tina Smith, 19:08]; [Sen. Padilla, 43:24]).
• Demands for Basic Oversight: Sen. Smith: “You cannot enforce the law if you think you’re above it… We can take some basic steps to help keep Americans safe from this out of control agency” ([Tina Smith, 19:08]).

8. The Faulty Federal “Self-Investigation” and Lack of Transparency

• No Independent Probe: The DOJ refuses to open a civil rights inquiry into Preddy's killing; instead, DHS will “investigate itself”—a move Psaki and Jeh Johnson excoriate ([Jen Psaki, 22:11]).
• Johnson on Proper Process: “Even in normal circumstances, a government agency cannot investigate itself unless it has a truly independent inspector general to start such an investigation” ([Jeh Johnson, 24:51]).
• Risks of Parallel Investigations: Local and federal authorities are not sharing evidence, risking contradictory findings and undermining trust ([Jeh Johnson, 27:33]).

9. Within Congress: Impeachment, Prosecution, and Bipartisan Frustration

• Pressure on Kristi Noem: Over 160 Democrats demand her impeachment; Sen. Lisa Murkowski and Sen. Thom Tillis break GOP ranks ([Jen Psaki, 31:31]).
• Republican Cowardice: Rep. Seth Moulton shares private admissions from GOP colleagues who recognize ICE is breaking the law but are “too scared to say that publicly because I’m worried about my own job” ([Seth Moulton, 32:27]).
• Abolish & Prosecute ICE: Moulton, echoing a growing chorus, calls for not just abolition but prosecution of agents who break the law ([Seth Moulton, 35:00]).

10. Federal Judge Forces ICE to Relent

• Judicial Oversight: A Bush-appointed federal judge threatens to hold ICE’s acting director in contempt, resulting in the release of an improperly-held detainee—a rare check on executive overreach ([Jen Psaki, 36:20]).

11. Horrific Detention Conditions Exposed

• Sen. Padilla’s Eyewitness Account: Padilla describes “inhumane” conditions at California’s largest ICE detention facility: “lack of medical care… complaints about mental health treatment… all needs to change, and it begins with actual independent oversight” ([Alex Padilla, 39:29]; [41:31]).
• Legislation Proposed: The Dignity for Detained Immigrants Act would set basic standards for detainee care and mandates independent investigations for deaths in custody ([Padilla, 42:03]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Jen Psaki (on protester resilience):
  “The people of Minnesota made Donald Trump blink. That little angry, cruel henchman of his is now on his way out of their state… the best display of humanity we have seen since Donald Trump was inaugurated in the face of a massive tragedy.” ([00:45])

• Gov. Tim Walz’s analogy:
  “A lot of folks think winter’s over in March. Minnesotans don’t let their guard down till May…” ([02:44])

• On Tom Homan’s perspective:
  “We’re going to create a database… we’re going to make them famous, we’re going to put their face on TV…” ([Tom Homan, paraphrased by Jeh Johnson, 04:59])

• Sen. Tina Smith (ICE reality check):
  “There were still ICE raids happening. So…you’ve got unmarked SUVs with guys with masks and…no identification, are still driving up and down the streets, pulling up, randomly hauling people out of their cars with no warrant.” ([Tina Smith, 13:38])

• On Republican silence:
  “I know the truth… And yet I’m just too scared to say that publicly because I’m worried about my own job.” ([Seth Moulton, 32:27])

• Rep. Seth Moulton on ICE:
  “You cannot enforce the law if you think you’re above it. So that should be the first priority.” ([Seth Moulton, 35:00])

• Sen. Alex Padilla on in-custody deaths:
  “Last year, calendar year 2025, was the deadliest year for detainees in ICE facilities. And we’re on track just the January numbers to exceed that in 2026.” ([Alex Padilla, 42:03])

• Jeh Johnson on investigations:
  “A government agency cannot investigate itself unless it has a truly independent inspector general…One of the other facets of a truly independent investigation is you don’t have government leaders prejudging what has happened within moments of the incident.” ([Jeh Johnson, 24:51])

• Jen Psaki, on inertia in the Trump team:
  “Trump still has not fired or demoted either Miller or Noem, though each of them is acting like their job is on the line and searching for a scapegoat. So that’s… telling.” ([Jen Psaki, 09:15])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Minnesota Protests & Grassroots Pushback: 00:45–03:21
• ICE Leadership Change & Homan’s Record: 03:21–05:17
• Trump Administration Rhetoric & Hypocrisy: 06:16–07:16
• White House Deflection & Blame-Shifting: 09:15–12:30
• Sen. Tina Smith Interview: 13:24–20:57
• Calls for DHS/ICE Reform in Congress: 18:31–20:57
• Federal "Self-Investigation" Critique: 22:11–24:51
• Jeh Johnson on Investigation Standards: 24:51–29:11
• Impeachment & Republican Frustration: 31:31–36:07
• Sen. Alex Padilla Interview on Detention Centers: 39:29–44:29

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Tone & Language

The episode maintains Jen Psaki’s signature blend of urgent, fact-based analysis and pointed, often wry, commentary. Guests share first-hand experiences in candid, sometimes emotional language, emphasizing both outrage and hope. The mood is a mix of somber (in recounting abuses and violence), skeptical (in evaluating federal promises), and inspirational (celebrating grassroots resilience and progress).

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Key Takeaways

• Sustained grassroots activism in Minnesota is proving effective but the fight for true accountability is ongoing.
• Federal leadership changes are seen as cosmetic; systemic reform and independent oversight remain critical demands.
• Reforms demanded include body cameras, bans on warrantless detentions, and independent investigations into deaths and abuses.
• Bipartisan cracks are emerging, but fear and party discipline still stifle action within the Republican caucus.
• Lawmakers vividly describe a humanitarian crisis within detention facilities—fuelling stronger legislative and political efforts for reform and oversight.

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For listeners wanting an unfiltered account of the ICE crisis and the growing movement for reform, this episode delivers a comprehensive, on-the-ground, and behind-the-scenes view, capturing both outrage and the sense of possibility in this high-stakes chapter of U.S. policy and activism.

Transcript

[Jen Psaki]

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[Seth Moulton]

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[Jen Psaki]

This is very strange, Angie, the one you trust to find the ones you trust. Find pros for all your home [e-mail].

Listen, I know we're all watching everything that's happening in Minneapolis and Minnesota right now. We're going to cover so much of it tonight. But I can't stop thinking about the fact that two things can be true at the same time. The first truth is that the people of Minnesota have done something incredible. I mean, the neighbors, the church leaders, the members of the community that have braved sub zero temperatures. You just saw how cold Chris was from standing outside for an hour. And people have been outside for hours protesting, even under the threat of pepper spray and even violence. They've been standing outside and making absolutely clear that they were not going to stand for the continuation of the lawless and cruel operations led by Greg Bevino. I mean, the people of Minnesota, unquestionably, I've been watching in politics, watching politics for a very long time. They pulled off something incredible. The people of Minnesota made Donald Trump blink. That little angry, cruel henchman of his is now on his way out of their state, on his way to early retirement. Greg Ravino, of course, that is. And that level of activism and commitment is, in my view, probably the best display of humanity we have seen since Donald Trump was inaugurated in the face of a massive tragedy. And yes, the people of Minnesota were back at it today, protesting outside of the federal courthouse in Minneapolis. You can see them there. They're tirelessly protesting. And yes, they were celebrating Greg Bovino's departure, as they should. But they were also demanding that ICE leave their state once and for all. Which brings me to the second truth, and that is, and I hate that this is true, but it is true. This fight isn't over yet. Just listen to Governor Tim Walz earlier today and what he had to say about it.

[Seth Moulton]

I understand Greg Babino is gone, you know, and that's a good riddance one. But it doesn't change the fact that the posture is still the same, that this is a unorganized, untrained, dangerous force on the streets that has nothing to.

[Jen Psaki]

Do with either immigration or law enforcement.

[Seth Moulton]

So I'll tell you today is there's, there's a bit of optimism, but there's such a sense of resolve. And I would say this is the Minnesota kind of attitude. A lot of folks think winter's over in March. Minnesotans don't let their guard down till May. And I'm telling you, these folks that are out there on the streets, they're very skeptical and rightfully so. So the mood is, there's a hint of hope and optimism, but there is a resolve that says, you know, the end of this is not Greg Bevino leaving. The end of this is a sane policy on how you do immigration reform and stop an attack by the federal government on a state.

[Jen Psaki]

So maybe it's February, March, based on Governor Walls analogy there, but we need to get to May. Yes, Greg Bovino is gone. That's a good thing. Very good thing. And his departure is also supposed to be accompanied by a reduction in Homeland Security officers patrolling the streets of Minneapolis. We will see, but that's another win. But as you just heard Governor Wall say, we are not at the end. I mean, for starters, the man Trump decided to replace Bavino with in Minneapolis is border czar Tom Homan. And I'm betting you know exactly who Tom Homan is. There he is on your screen. But just to refresh on the specifics, cuz I did this myself over the last 24 hours during Trump's first term, Homan was the architect of Trump's cruel and inhumane policy of separating children from their parents at the border, many of whom still have not been reunited to this day. In Trump's second administration, Homan openly defended defying a judge's order to halt deportation flights to El Salvador, saying, I don't care what the judges think. During a speech in April in Arizona, he said, if you're in this country illegally, you should be looking over your shoulder. Of course, Homan is also the Trump administration official who reportedly took a $50,000 bribe from an undercover FBI agent. A literal bundle of cash stuff in a bag from the fast casual restaurant Cava. Very smooth on Tom Homan's part, I will say. And he claims he did nothing illegal there. Unless anyone thinks that despite all of that, Tom Homan will somehow be the guy to change the way ICE agents in Minneapolis treat protesters. Here's what Tom Homan said about those ICE protesters just earlier this month.

[Jeh Johnson]

One thing I'm pushing for right now, Laura, we're going to create a database. Those people that are arrested for interference and penal assault, we're going to make them famous, we're going to put their face on tv. We're going to let their employers in their neighborhoods, in their schools know who these people are.

[Jen Psaki]

So that's the guy you just saw there who's going into Minnesota to tone things down. And yet, despite all of that, Republican members of Congress are happy to jump on that narrative and act like this is going to solve everything. I mean, this morning, Senator Lindsey Graham posted this quote, I appreciate the President and his team, led by Tom Homan, trying to find a way to turn the temperature down in Minnesota. Senate Republican Leader John Thune echoed that sentiment, posting, this is a positive development, one that I hope leads to turning down the temperature and restoring order in Minnesota. And we should all hope for that. I hope I am wrong in this, but again, I think we should all remain clear eyed here, given that Donald Trump appears to have just replaced one lawless anti immigrant zealot with another. And when he was asked today about the shift from Bovino to Homan, Trump did not back away from defending his most controversial allies or from demonizing protesters.

[Seth Moulton]

Vivino is very good, but he's a pretty out there kind of a guy. And in some cases it's good. Maybe it wasn't good here, but you have to understand, when I watch some of the people that I've been watching over the last few weeks, these are paid insurrectionists, these are paid agitators. These people are normal.

[Jen Psaki]

Trump is still calling the people protesting ICE in Minneapolis paid insurrectionists, even after two of them have now been killed at the hands of his own agents. Even after there's been a supposed massive shift here. And while Trump is not currently repeating his administration's line that Alex Preddy is a, quote, domestic terrorist, he is still repeatedly blaming Alex Preddy for his own death.

[Seth Moulton]

Certainly he shouldn't have been carrying a gun. I don't like that he had a gun. I don't like that he had two fully loaded magazines. That's a lot of bad stuff. I don't like the fact that he.

[Jen Psaki]

Was carrying a gun that was fully.

[Seth Moulton]

Loaded and he had two magazines with him. And it's pretty unusual.

[Jen Psaki]

That being said, you know, you can't have Guns, you can't walk into shots. Donald Trump is blaming Alex Preddy for his own death because he thinks protesters can't have guns. Now, set aside for a second that Alex Preddy was a licensed gun owner in a state that allows concealed carry who appears to have been disarmed by before agents shot him. And we have all seen the video many, many times. Donald Trump has repeatedly and publicly endorsed right wing protesters who show up to demonstrations with guns. That's also a truth. When armed protesters showed up outside the Michigan State Capitol with AR15s to protest COVID lockdowns, Trump called them very good people and urged the governor to give in to their demands. When Kyle Rittenhouse shot and killed two Black Lives Matter protesters in Kenosha, Wisconsin, Trump came to his defense as well. As we learned from testimony under oath to the January 6th committee, Trump even demanded the magnetometer be removed from his January 6th rally so the protesters who stormed the Capitol could keep their guns, saying, quote, I don't f ing care that they have weapons. They're not here to hurt me. That guy, that guy I just described now says that Alex Preddy should not have brought his gun to the protest. Listen, I wish he was completely reversing course here because there are plenty of other things we can be talking about. If he was really de. Escalating fully, I wish I could tell you that I think he's actually going to turn the temperature down. Perhaps the best evidence we have of that right now is that the majority of people around him who have done the most to inflame tensions in Minneapolis are still in their jobs. Remember, it was Trump's Secretary of Homeland Security whose agency first maligned Alex Predding the hours after his death, baselessly smearing him as a domestic terrorist. Well, today, Donald Trump was asked what he thought of the job Noem is doing, and here's. Here's what he said.

Are you helping trust you, Noem, Right now? I am, yeah.

[Seth Moulton]

I think she's doing a very good job.

[Jen Psaki]

I think she's doing a very good job. I mean, I think she's doing a very good job. There we go. The second Trump official to publicly attack Preddy was the Trump advisor, Stephen Miller, that guy who called Pradi an assassin just hours after his death. And today, Miller is in such good graces. He was on Air Force One. There he is walking up the stairs of Air Force One with Trump as Trump flew to Iowa. Trump still has not fired or demoted either Miller or Noem, though each of them is acting like their job is on the line and searching for a scapegoat. So that's tell Today Axios published a report claiming that Noem's original statement calling Preddy a terrorist was driven by Stephen Miller, citing four sources. But then the reporter behind that story said that Stephen Miller called that reporter and said that he had just been operating off information given to him by Customs and Border Patrol. See, there's a lot of blame gaming going on here. So someone leaks to the press that Noem's terrorism comments actually came from Stephen Miller. And then Miller turns around and says that he actually got those comments from Greg Bevino's cbp, which reports to Christino. And yes, all of that infighting craziness shows none of them are willing to be held accountable. But also none of them condemn that comment either, which I think is also quite telling. Look, if Donald Trump and his administration actually wanted to de escalate this situation, there are some tangible things that he could do. For starters, he could end his disastrous ICE operation in Minneapolis. He could end the bogus investigations his Justice Department is launched into Minnesota Democrats for allegedly, as they say, obstructing ICE simply for speaking out against the horrible things they're doing. He could call off his administration's bogus investigation into the widow of Renee Goode. He could direct his administration to cooperate with Minnesota's investigations into the agents behind these shootings or tell the Justice Department, which we know he runs, even though you're not supposed to as president, to open a real civil rights investigation into the officers. And he could tell congressional Republicans to work with Democrats in their efforts to rein in ice, which is over bloated, overfunded and over empowered. Trump is still a long way from making this situation better. But that doesn't mean that pushback isn't working. It is working. Greg Bovino is out of Minneapolis. A Republican candidate from Minnesota, governor who just two weeks ago was promising to support Renee Nicole Good's killer, has now dropped out of the race and abandoned his party completely, saying he cannot support the national Republican stated retribution on the citizens of our state. By our count, at least 23 Republicans are now calling for some kind of investigation into these deaths. I'll get to that later. What kind of investigation does matter, but it's a start. And some Republican senators are now even calling on Secretary Noem to resign. My point is the pushback is working. What people of Minnesota are doing is working. It's powerful, it's impactful. But that doesn't mean it's time to start lowering expectations about what this administration needs to do and what is acceptable. It means the opposite, in fact. The momentum is on the side of people fighting to stop ice free Minneapolis and get justice for these killers. And they know it. Justice for these killings, I should say. And they know it. Joining me now is Democratic Senator Tina Smith of Minnesota. Senator Smith, thank you for being here. Let me start by just saying it has been incredible to watch the people of Minnesota. I know so many people have said this, but it is so cold there. People are out there with their signs fearlessly, tirelessly, day after day. It's incredible. I know you already know it's about your state. Let me start. I mean, Greg Bevino's departure from Minnesota is undeniably a win, or his planned departure, I should say, for protesters and activists and everyday Minnesotans. But this is not the end. And I was so struck by what Governor Walz said, and I think that's why I felt it was so important to explain what else needs to happen. But you are so close to this. You were in it. You were living it. What did I miss there, frankly? What did I get wrong?

[Tina Smith]

Well, I think you're absolutely right. I mean, a few conciliatory words from President Trump yesterday does not make this all go away. And this is the message that I've been delivering to my Republican colleagues in the Senate.

[Jen Psaki]

Today.

[Tina Smith]

There were still ICE raids happening. So what that means is you've got unmarked SUVs with guys with masks and, you know, no identification, are still driving up and down the streets, pulling up, randomly hauling people out of their cars with no warrant with just like, people who've done nothing wrong. So that is still happening. And the folks in Minneapolis that are manning and womaning the mutual aid centers to make sure that people who are afraid to go to the grocery store can have food for their kids, that's all still happening. Nothing has changed yet in Minneapolis or all of the towns around Minnesota where these ICE agents are terrorizing our citizens. So Bovino being gone, I mean, that's always a good thing if you don't have Bovino in your state. But we still have a big, big problem. And we cannot let up the gas because what we've seen right, in Minnesota, Minnesotans get this, like, if you are weak in the face of a bully, they will keep on bullying you. But if you are strong, if you stand up to them, then they, like, try to find a way out. And I think that's exactly what's going on here. Trump was like, oh, damn. Like, this is Hurting me. I need to do something about this. And here we are a day later. We still have a big problem, but there are some signs of progress, I'd say.

[Jen Psaki]

Yeah. And you could tell. I mean, people. We showed this at the top of the show, too. People were still out there. They were celebrating Bevino's departure, but they were still saying, ICE needs to get out of our state, which is quite telling. People in the state know that there's more that needs to happen. I think it's so important for people to hear that out there who are making calls to senators and who are calling for additional things to happen. Let me ask you. There's so many more things I want to ask you about. What's happening on the ground? I don't know. I don't know if you've seen this yet, but on the topic of the temperature in your state right now, tonight, Congresswoman Ilhan Omar was speaking at a town hall event when a man from the crowd lunged at her and sprayed her with an unknown substance. The mayor of Minneapolis tweeted that she's okay. We don't know that much beyond that, but we do know this is someone who has been repeatedly demonized by this president and his allies. And I just wonder. I don't know if you'd seen it, but what your reaction to all of this is.

[Tina Smith]

Well, of course I have seen that. And we have heard from Ilhan's team that they're okay. And the guy who did this is in police custody. And you could see Bobby Joe Champion, who's a state legislator, like, rushing there. And what I think is so important for people to know is that Ilhan was like, no, I'm not done yet. I'm not gonna let this guy scare me away from doing this town hall. And I think it. You know, I so admire her courage. I mean, this is somebody who lives with threats to her family and to herself every single day. And that is what courage looks like, and that's what service and patriotism looks like.

[Jen Psaki]

It's so. It was powerful. I watched the whole thing multiple times. She kept speaking. And also, there was a larger man who came out from seemingly nowhere anyone would want at their event. So just kind of help rectify the situation. So that's good to hear. She's okay. And then also he's in custody. Let me get back to what's happening on the ground. So it's not that old Greg Provino leaving and Tom Homan or being on his way out and Tom Homan coming in. I know you said people are still being detained. People are still being. A lot of the things you've seen over the past few weeks are still happening. Have you heard about any activity on the actual reduction of ice forces? Is anything like that happening at all quite yet?

[Tina Smith]

Well, I mean, don't blame me if I don't believe what these guys say.

[Jen Psaki]

I want to see what I don't. I don't either. Yeah, I know, right.

[Tina Smith]

So you know, the word was when they spoke with the governor and the mayor that they were going to start to think about reducing some of the folks that are there. But I don't know that that's happened yet. I don't have any information that has had that it has happened. So I, you know, the proof is in the pudding as we say in Minnesota. You've got to show me that you actually mean what you are saying. And as I meanwhile, people are just like coming together. Yesterday I was out in neighborhoods delivering diapers and food and thanking the volunteers. And I mean, Jen, you cannot believe, I know that you all were talking about this earlier with Chris. You just cannot believe the thousands of volunteers that are stepping up and they are so organized. I'm an organizer myself, so I really appreciate when people know how to come together and get it done. And you know, they sort of roll their ey when they hear the president say that they're paid. They're like, for God's sakes, are you kidding me? Yeah, I'm doing this because I love my country and I love my community and I know that it comes to us, the people have the power right.

[Jen Psaki]

Now in Minneapolis and all across the state. It's been so powerful to watch. Let me ask you just before I let you go about something back here in Washington, because Senate Democrats are presenting what seems to me to be a pretty united front right now saying that they will block upcoming DHS and ICE funding bill until a number of changes are made. Obviously Senate Democrats are not in charge of the Senate, which I think I'll just keep repeating to people. Walk us through kind of specifically what Senate Democrats are hoping to get out of the negotiations. I mean, what you think, obviously the mood of the country is with you, but what do you think is even possible here?

[Tina Smith]

Yeah, so move. There's a very simple path here. We have these six appropriations bills. They're all tied up in a bundle. We need to take Homeland Security and separate it out. We can pass the other bills and then we need to really get serious about the Homeland Security bill. Democrats will not vote to Pass the budget that is before us. If it includes Homeland Security, we will not do that. And our Republican colleagues in the Senate need to hear that and they need to deal with it because they need us to pass this bill. It's pretty simple. What we are asking, we say, like there are some common sense things that we should be able to do as Congress to keep people safe from these massive ICE overreach, chaos, recklessness and violence. The same kinds of rules that local police forces have to abide by every single day. You can't wear a mask. You got to wear an id. You need to have a body camera. You need to, you can't just barge into somebody's house without a warrant. You can't just rove around communities and detain or arrest people who have done nothing wrong. These are standard practices for police forces all over the country. And I think Democrats are coalescing around saying, let's just do this. There's huge reforms. We need huge changes to ice. I think it needs to be torn down to the studs, but we can't do that right now. But we can take some basic steps to help keep Americans safe from this out of control agency. And that's what we're asking. And I don't know how Republicans, how they defend against not doing that because we're not going to accept some letter that the President sends us saying, oh, trust me, we're going to fix this.

[Jen Psaki]

Or Tom Homan answering the call for reforms here. Senator Tina Smith, thank you for being here for explaining so much to us and for everything that people in your state are doing. It's really incredibly inspiring. Thank you, Jen. We have to sneak in a very quick break, but we have big news tonight on the investigation into the killing of Alex Preddy. Apparently the Department of Homeland Security is going to investigate itself. I have some thoughts on that. Jeh Johnson is the former Secretary of Homeland Security and he joins me next. Why have we asked our contractor we.

[Seth Moulton]

Found on Angie.com to be our kid's legal guardian?

[Jen Psaki]

Because he took such good care when redoing our basement that we knew we could trust him care for our kids.

[Jeh Johnson]

We only met a month ago.

[Jen Psaki]

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[Seth Moulton]

Waiting for the green flag to drop.

[Jen Psaki]

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[Seth Moulton]

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[Jen Psaki]

CTC's 21+ sponsored by Jumba Casino A Better Help Ad the new year doesn't need a new you, just some space to let your mind feel lighter. Therapy can help you unpack what's been heavy and bring more clarity, calm and perspective into 2026. BetterHelp makes it easy to match online with a qualified therapist who can help you see things more clearly and move forward with confidence. See for yourself. Visit betterhelp.com for 10% off your first month. In the days after Federal agents killed 37 year old ICU nurse Alex Preddy, a growing number of Republicans in Congress have publicly called for an investigation into the shooting. And let's be clear though, there is a difference between paying lip service to a full and impartial investigation and making sure one actually happens. Because if Republicans truly want to see a serious investigation, they should start being more specific and far more vocal about how woefully inadequate the Trump administration has handled the investigation into Alex Preddy's killing so far. Today I must now had exclusive reporting that Trump's Justice Department has decided not to open a civil rights investigation into the killing of Alex Preddy at this time. Instead, it will be handled by two units of the Department of Homeland Security. A Customs and Border Protection office will look into whether its own officers followed agency policy in the shooting, while Homeland Security investigations will look at whether Preddy broke any laws. Now do you trust this Department of Homeland Security to investigate itself? A department whose leadership has repeatedly been caught lying over the last several weeks? A department whose leadership immediately and falsely labeled Alex Preddy a domestic terrorist? Do you trust those guys to investigate their own? I sure don't. Joining me now is former DHS Secretary under President Obama, Jeh Johnson. It's great to see you. You are one of my favorite people to talk to always, but certainly when it's just time to remind people what is normal, what is not normal, as of the things that we are seeing out there. So I would just note, in addition to what I just laid out, I also want to point to the fact that the federal agents are still not sharing information or evidence with state investigators in Minnesota, which is an important thing and that information could certainly be helpful. But I just kind of laid out what investigations are happening and which ones are not happening. Give us your take on how the administration is handling this investigation at this point.

[Jeh Johnson]

Well Jen, in your last segment, you sort of snatched the words out of my mouth. Even in normal circumstances, a government agency cannot investigate itself unless it has a truly independent inspector general to start such an investigation. What should happen here? If we were dealing in normal circumstances, the normal administration is a horrific incident like the shooting of Renee Goode or Alex Freddy occurs. The matter is referred to the Civil Rights Division of the Department of Justice. The Civil Rights Division of the Department of Justice stood up for this, one of the very reasons they were stood up in the first place. Investigators from the Department of Justice, likely the FBI, along with investigators from the Department of Homeland Security, and probably along with local law enforcement, simply for credibility and accountability, because local law enforcement very often has the best leads, has the most familiarity with the community, all working together to try to get to a particular result wherever the evidence leads them. And one of the other facets of a truly independent investigation is you don't have government leaders prejudging what has happened within moments of the incident. In the. In the military. I used to be the general counsel of the Department of Defense. It's called undue command influence, where you have a commander or a leader who is prejudging what should happen in the investigation, which then puts pressure on the subordinates to come out a certain way. And so to say, for the Department of Justice to say, well, we're going to leave it up to DHS to investigate itself, even though DHS doesn't have prosecutors, is not an entirely satisfactory position to take here. We know two people are dead who didn't have to die. Let's start with that.

[Jen Psaki]

Yeah, that's the most important part. One of the things that I was speaking with the Hennepin county attorney, Marian Moriarty, about this last week, and it stuck with me that she was saying, you know, the FBI stopped their investigation pretty early. They are doing their own investigation on the ground. She has the ability, of course, to move forward with charges, but they're not getting the partnership from the federal level that they would under normal circumstances. What is the impact of that? They have the authority to move forward, but what about resources and other things? How is that hurting them on the ground? I guess I should say, well, I.

[Jeh Johnson]

Don'T know how you have two parallel investigations, because somebody's got to have custody of the evidence. Somebody's got to be interviewing the witnesses, hopefully only one at a time. To me, having parallel investigations by the feds, by local law enforcement, is most unfortunate. It's counterproductive. It'll be controversial and may likely lead to conflicting results. What happens then? So, you know, you were talking about Tom Holman earlier. Tom Holman used to work for me and he's very, very definitely pro enforcement. But in this group, he may be the more reasonable person in the bunch. He's career law enforcement. I noted his statement after Renee Good's shooting. Let's see where the investigation comes out. Educated speculation is the president sent him to Minneapolis to try to calm things down. And I hope that out of that comes some sort of agreement about how the investigations here should proceed.

[Jen Psaki]

I think that's what everyone hopes for. I think the skepticism I and others have, and we will see is that since he worked for you a long time ago, he was a big part of child separation. He said some very negative things about immigrants. He's take a allegedly took a bribe. We will see. Everybody wants it to be escalate de escalated. Secretary Jeh Johnson, thank you so much for being here with me tonight. I appreciate it.

[Jeh Johnson]

Thank you.

[Jen Psaki]

Okay. Coming up, Democrats in Congress are ramping up the pressure on Capitol Hill. I was just talking with Senator Tina Smith about this on everything from DHS funding, which we talked about, to impeaching Kristi Noem. And that has really picked up some steam recently. And some of these Democrats, Democrats are making their case in Minneapolis. Congressman Seth Moulton is on the ground in Minneapolis tonight, probably very cold after standing with protesters there today. And he joins me next.

[Seth Moulton]

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[Jen Psaki]

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[Seth Moulton]

Waiting for the green flag to drop.

[Jen Psaki]

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[Seth Moulton]

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[Jen Psaki]

CTC's 21/plus sponsored by Jumba Casino. A better help ad. The new year doesn't need a new you, just some space to let your mind feel lighter. Therapy can help you unpack what's been heavy and bring more clarity, calm and perspective into 2026. BetterHelp makes it easy to match online with a qualified therapist who can help you see things more clearly and move forward with confidence. See for yourself. Visit betterhelp.com for 10% off your first month. So far, more than 160 Democrats in Congress have called for the impeachment of Homeland Security Secretary Christine 160. And she, of course, oversees both ICE and CBP as they wage their immigration crackdown in Minneapolis and communities across the country. Hence the call for her impeachment. And while it's difficult to imagine Republicans in this Congress turning against a member of Trump's cabinet at this point, at least, at least two Republican senators who voted for her confirmation have broken ranks with their party. One is Senator Lisa Murkowski, and the other is Senator Thom Tillis.

[Jeh Johnson]

I think that what she's done in Minnesota should be disqualifying. She should be out of the job.

[Jen Psaki]

All right, now he's retiring, but still seems like something. Joining me live from Minneapolis is Congressman Seth Moulton of Massachusetts. Congressman, I know you are freezing out there. You've been out there with protesters. Thank you for being here with us tonight. Let me just ask you about what I just mentioned. I mean, you've been in Minneapolis. You've seen what's happening on the ground. Senator Thom Tillis is retiring. As I mentioned, Senator Lisa Murkowski. She's broken with Republicans before. Neither of them have called for Noem's impeachment. But it does, it does feel like something's moving out there. You talk to a lot of members from both parties, Democrats, but Republicans, too, give us some kind of real talk. What is the movement here? Is there real movement toward this happening? Or do you think it's just going to propel pressure to get her to be pushed out?

[Seth Moulton]

The vast majority of Republicans understand the truth, the truth that we can say see with our own eyes, watching videos from Minneapolis today. But they're just scared. I mean, Jen, I was on Will Kane's show after Renee Good's shooting, and the first colleague I ran into was a very conservative Republican, a big Trump supporter who came up to me and he said, yeah, you were right. You know, you did a good job in that interview. And that was a terrible shooting. And he said, I have spent years in law enforcement and all of my law enforcement friends said that she shouldn't have been shot. But then the next thing he said was, of course I can't say that. What he's saying is, I know the truth. I know this shouldn't be happening. I know that federal agents are Breaking the law. And yet I'm just too scared to say that publicly because I'm worried about my own job.

[Jen Psaki]

At this point. Why, though? I mean, Trump is very unpopular. This is very unpopular. What is happening in Minneapolis. Of course. Of course it is. ICE is very unpopular. Why are they so afraid still now?

[Seth Moulton]

I mean, they just seem to be afraid of Trump and the base. I mean, this is a story of the Republican Party today completely subservient to Trump, completely powerless. They've made Congress essentially irrelevant under Speaker Johnson, and as a result, they're not willing to just show the basic courage that we should expect of every elected official, which is just to tell the truth. And I do think that this is part of the problem that people see with Secretary Noem is that she's obviously incompetent. I mean, we knew that from the very beginning. But she cannot manage to just get through a sentence without lying. And even if you're a Republican, you've got to question whether that's the person you want representing Department of Homeland Security, serving as a cabinet official in this government.

[Jen Psaki]

Yeah, it's causing them more problems than many of them need, obviously. Let me ask you about your position. I mean, there's not total agreement in the Democratic Party. There rarely is about a lot of things, I should say. But you've called for ICE to be abolished and prosecuted. That's not. You're not alone in those calls, by any means. There's a growing number of people making those calls. It's not the position right now of Democratic leadership in Congress. But give us a sense of what you heard from the people in Minneapolis today and why you think that's what needs to be. What needs to be the next step here, Abolishing and getting rid of ICE and prosecuting the ICE members.

[Seth Moulton]

Yeah, look, the call for prosecution is one that I started weeks ago, and I said, look, even before we discuss abolishing or whatever comes next with ice, you gotta prosecute these people who are breaking the law. And when I started saying that, I got a lot of pushback. ICE officials in particular, Todd Lyons, went after me. But increasingly, we are hearing that call. And recently among Democratic leadership, I've heard that term as well. Prosecute ice. Prosecute ice. This should be the clarion call for Democrats all across the country. You cannot enforce the law if you think you're above it. So that should be the first priority. And it's actually something we might get some Republicans to agree with, because at least Republicans are now calling for a proper investigation of the frankly, execution of Alex Brady. So there's a place there where if Democrats continue making this call forcefully, we might actually get a few Republicans to find the basic courage to say what they're saying in private publicly and get a proper investigation into his death.

[Jen Psaki]

We will certainly see. And obviously, Minnesota officials are working hard on that. On the ground, too. I should mention. Congressman Seth Moulton, I know you're freezing. Thank you for being here. Thank you for being in Minnesota. Really appreciate it.

[Seth Moulton]

Thank you.

[Jen Psaki]

Okay, up next, a federal judge appointed by George W. Bush unloads on the Trump administration. And the Trump administration backs down. Senator Alex Padilla standing by to talk about all the ways pushback is working, working right now. And he joins me next. Yesterday, a federal judge in Minnesota ordered the acting director of ice, Todd Lyons, to appear in his court personally or be held in contempt of court. You see, two weeks ago, lawyers went to that judge saying that ICE had detained their client, sent their client to an immigration prison in Texas. But ICE wasn't allowing their client to have a bond hearing so he could contest his detention. And the judge gave ICE a week to either give that man a bond hearing or release him. And ICE did neither of those things. They just kept a guy imprisoned with no ability to contest being locked up. So the judge gave acting ICE Director Todd Lyons a choice. Release the guy or come to Minnesota. Literally come to this judge's courtroom this Friday at 1pm and explain in person why the judge shouldn't hold him as the director of ICE in contempt of court. And surprise, surprise, that worked. I mean, today, ICE released the guy, Todd Lyons caved rather than explain what exactly he was doing. Now, that's a real win. Shows that pushback can and does work. But the immigrant at the center of that case is far from alone, because all across the country, massed immigration agents are snatching people up off the street, many of them with no criminal record at all. Those immigrants are then detained, often without a bond hearing or due process, for indefinite periods of time. And as of this month, ICE says that it has 73,000 people in custody. 73,000. The Trump administration's stated goal is to get that number up to 100,000. So 100,000 people in prisons with as little oversight as possible. That's their goal. Often private, for profit prisons. Legally, members of Congress are supposed to be allowed to visit any federal detention center at any time with no notice, so they can perform their oversight duties over the facilities. But repeatedly, we have seen the Trump administration ignore that law and deny members of Congress entry Last week, California Senators Alex Padilla and Adam Schiff managed to get inside their state's largest immigration detention center. Anyway, Senator Padilla said that the conditions he saw inside that detention center were inhumane, violating basic standards for access to health care, food, water, and legal counsel. And today, the Department of Homeland Security fired back, saying bluntly that any claims that are inhumane conditions at ICE detention centers are false. And we know how close they are to the truth over there. I'll just say. Okay. Joining me now is Democratic Senator Alex Padilla of California. Senator Padilla, can you explain you were actually in the facility? I don't believe hardly anything that comes out of the Department of Homeland Security at this point. But tell us what you saw, what the facilities were like, what you saw when you were able to get in there.

Sure, Jen, good to be back with you. And for starters, and you hit the nail on the head, this is an administration that doesn't want you to believe what you see with your own eyes. I know what I saw with my own eyes and what I heard with my own ears. And talking about to many of the detainees, California City, it's the largest detention facility in California, currently housing more than 1,400 detainees. Not prisoners, detainees with a capacity up to 2,500. And so I share those numbers because the problems that we've seen without being properly addressed are only going to be exacerbated as the Trump administration aggressively pursues this goal of 100,000 or more. You know, when I visited facilities like this, other ICE facilities or detention centers, correctional facilities, even throughout my public service career, you always expect to hear maybe complaints about food or water. They keep it too cold or too hot in here. But I was shocked at the amount and intensity of the complaints about lack of medical care. Like even detainees, even in prisons, even under conditions of war, there's basic standards that we are supposed to hold and maintain, and that is not happening. And I'm talking about people who maybe came in with chronic conditions and they had their medical history. If they were transferred from a different ICE facility that is not being followed up on people who may be suffering an injury, many who shared that they were injured in the course of being detained. Right. We've seen how aggressive and physical these detentions and arrests are. And a lot of times I'll come away from an audience and say, well, the women talked to me, and even the men complained about mental health. In this case, it was especially the men talking about the lack of mental health treatment. Being there is traumatic. A lot of Them come in with trauma to have kids that you're supposed to be providing for on the outside not sure what their future is, is absolutely traumatic. So a lot needs to change here and it begins with actual independent oversight.

There's a lot that can happen just to bring it back to Washington. Here the Democrats are in the minority, but there's still a lot that can be proposed. There's a lot of leverage you have. You and Senator Cory Booker have announced the Dignity for Detained Immigrants Act. I'd love to tell you for you to tell me more about that. And it's all related, all of these issues we've been talking about throughout the show, what we're seeing with ICE in Minneapolis, what we're seeing at these ICE facilities. Also tell me a little bit about what you're seeing, seeing in terms of what's possible with using leverage for the funding bill. I know I just asked you two big questions there, but they're all tied together.

Look, I appreciate that. I mean, fundamentally, this bill is about ensuring that even in these detention facilities we're maintaining the basic human rights conditions for a detainee similar to what we do with prisoners or even soldiers in the context of war, quality access to water, housing facility access to basic care, those sorts of things. Why the timing not just because of my facility visit last week? Last year, calendar year 2025, was the deadliest year for detainees in ICE facilities. And we're on track just the January numbers to exceed that in 2026. And so just as we've called for actual independent investigations into the shooting of Renee Goode a few weeks ago in Minneapolis and Alex predicted this last weekend, how about the dozens who have died in ICE custody? Right. That needs to be done as part of oversight and accountability as well.

We only have about a minute left, but tell me, what do you think is going to happen? What leverage as it relates to the funding, the DHS funding. I know this is something that Democrats are calling for it to be pulled off of the larger bill. Could that happen? And what are the key things you really would like to to see negotiated with Republicans.

I appreciate that. So to your point, despite whether it's a big bundle of spending bills or Homeland Security spending bill separately, look, I can't in good conscience support additional funding for a lawless, out of control, militarized Trump ice. I just can't. We don't want a government shutdown, but we don't want lawlessness on the streets either. So we're calling for pretty simple ideas, have things like accountability for the money. They already have the oh, bbb. Triple the ICE budget. It's not a matter of resources. How about things like body cams for all ICE agents? That's good for the public and good for the officers too. By the way. How about no roving patrols, right? No detention without warrants. Very simple common sense concept. True independent investigations. As I just mentioned, it's smart policy. Good for everybody. That's what we need at a minimum.

Sounds incredibly rational and smart. And thank you for informing us about it. Senator Alex Bedia. Thank you for being here.

Thank you.

We have to take a quick break. We will be right back. And Lawrence has Jamie Raskin standing by. That does it for me tonight. You can catch the show Tuesday through Friday at 9pm Eastern on Ms. Now. And don't forget to follow the show on Blue sky, Instagram and TikTok. Why have we asked our contractor we found on Angie.com to be our kids legal guardian?

[Tina Smith]

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[Jen Psaki]

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